Vedic Scripts, wisdom and facts

Lionhawk wrote: I am glad this thread has been put back on it rightful course.

Thank you Lionhawk! It is always interesting to read your posts.

Devakas and Rasa

I would just like to say that the caring and intelligent way in which you both responded to being attacked in this manner was very inspirational to me at times and served to give added veracity and worth to the source of wisdom you have clearly taken in and share on this thread.

I noticed that both of you at times saw something you did or said as being the cause of these attacks.....that you are troublemakers......and want to reiterate that nothing could be further from the truth. You responded with great dignity and if you had have been dealing with someone who actually listened to what you had to say, that person would have benefited greatly.

Let's just hope that in finally being stopped and given 'time out' the young lady who was the source of so much chaos here and elsewhere will use the time to re-evaluate and change her approach and find the peace and healing, respect and love, she clearly yearns for. From what I've seen you both express on this thread I'm sure you both join me in that hope for her.

Love and respect to you both.

I am honored to be in a company of people who care and respect each other. To stand for others is a very rare and very attractive quality of ones character, and you Brook certainly have that quality.

For sure Sanicle, the young lady will find peace, healing respect and love. It is only a matter of time.

Thank you all: Brook, Sanicle, Devakas, Mercuriel, Lionhawk, Mudra, Floyd, Carol and others.

I thought it will be of interest mainly for two reasons:
1) Dr.Dean Brown is a theoretical physicist and sanskrit scholar mentions how modern days science is influenced by sanscrit and Vedic cosmology.

He was mentioning Sri Isopanisad . This is an invokation verse.

2) oḿ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaḿ
pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate
pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya
pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate

TRANSLATION

The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.

India's glory is in that they were able to keep the original sanscrit text of Vedic literatures (including Bhagavad Gita) unadulterated for thousands of years. But translations can be some what different. If I may sugest to you Brook, to check out the translation of B.Gita by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. It is more clear and more powerful. Well, he walked his talk.
This is his B.Gita online. Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Bhagavad-gītā As It Is


Scholars praising S.Prabhupada's translation of Bhagavad Gita


"No work in all Indian literature is more quoted, because none is better loved, in the West, than the Bhagavad-gita. Translation of such a work demands not only knowledge of Sanskrit, but an inward sympathy with the theme and a verbal artistry. For the poem is a symphony in which God is seen in all things....The Swami does a real service for students by investing the beloved Indian epic with fresh meaning. Whatever our outlook may be, we should all be grateful for the labor that has lead to this illuminating work."

Dr. Geddes MacGregor, Emeritus Distinguished Professor of Philosophy
University of Southern California

"The Gita can be seen as the main literary support for the great religious civilization of India, the oldest surviving culture in the world. The present translation and commentary is another manifestation of the permanent living importance of the Gita."

Thomas Merton,
Theologian

"I am most impressed with A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's scholarly and authoritative edition of Bhagavad-gita. It is a most valuable work for the scholar as well as the layman and is of great utility as a reference book as well as a textbook. I promptly recommend this edition to my students. It is a beautifully done book."

Dr. Samuel D. Atkins
Professor of Sanskrit, Princeton University

"...As a successor in direct line from Caitanya, the author of Bhagavad-gita As It Is is entitled, according to Indian custom, to the majestic title of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The great interest that his reading of the Bhagavad-gita holds for us is that it offers us an authorized interpretation according to the principles of the Caitanya tradition."

Olivier Lacombe
Professor of Sanskrit and Indology, Sorbonne University, Paris

"I have had the opportunity of examining several volumes published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust and have found them to be of excellent quality and of great value for use in college classes on Indian religions. This is particularly true of the BBT edition and translation of the Bhagavad-gita."

Dr. Frederick B. Underwood
Professor of Religion, Columbia University

"...If truth is what works, as Pierce and the pragmatists insist, there must be a kind of truth in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, since those who follow its teachings display a joyous serenity usually missing in the bleak and strident lives of contemporary people."

Dr. Elwin H. Powell
Professor of Sociology
State University of New York, Buffalo

"There is little question that this edition is one of the best books available on the Gita and devotion. Prabhupada's translation is an ideal blend of literal accuracy and religious insight."

Dr. Thomas J. Hopkins
Professor of Religion, Franklin and Marshall College

"The Bhagavad-gita, one of the great spiritual texts, is not as yet a common part of our cultural milieu. This is probably less because it is alien per se than because we have lacked just the kind of close interpretative commentary upon it that Swami Bhaktivedanta has here provided, a commentary written from not only a scholar's but a practitioner's, a dedicated lifelong devotee's point of view."

Denise Levertov,
Poet

"The increasing numbers of Western readers interested in classical Vedic thought have been done a service by Swami Bhaktivedanta. By bringing us a new and living interpretation of a text already known to many, he has increased our understanding manyfold."

Dr. Edward C Dimock, Jr.
Department of South Asian Languages and Civilization
University of Chicago

"The scholarly world is again indebted to A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Although Bhagavad-gita has been translated many times, Prabhupada adds a translation of singular importance with his commentary...."

Dr. J. Stillson Judah,
Professor of the History of Religions and Director of Libraries
Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, California

"Srila Prabhupada's edition thus fills a sensitive gap in France, where many hope to become familiar with traditional Indian thought, beyond the commercial East-West hodgepodge that has arisen since the time Europeans first penetrated India.
"Whether the reader be an adept of Indian spiritualism or not, a reading of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is will be extremely profitable. For many this will be the first contact with the true India, the ancient India, the eternal India."

Francois Chenique, Professor of Religious Sciences
Institute of Political Studies, Paris, France

"As a native of India now living in the West, it has given me much grief to see so many of my fellow countrymen coming to the West in the role of gurus and spiritual leaders. For this reason, I am very excited to see the publication of Bhagavad-gita As It Is by Sri A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. It will help to stop the terrible cheating of false and unauthorized 'gurus' and 'yogis' and will give an opportunity to all people to understand the actual meaning of Oriental culture."

Dr. Kailash Vajpeye, Director of Indian Studies
Center for Oriental Studies, The University of Mexico

"...It is a deeply felt, powerfully conceived and beautifully explained work. I don't know whether to praise more this translation of the Bhagavad-gita, its daring method of explanation, or the endless fertility of its ideas. I have never seen any other work on the Gita with such an important voice and style....It will occupy a significant place in the intellectual and ethical life of modern man for a long time to come."

Dr. Shaligram Shukla
Professor of Linguistics, Georgetown University

"I can say that in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is I have found explanations and answers to questions I had always posed regarding the interpretations of this sacred work, whose spiritual discipline I greatly admire. If the aesceticism and ideal of the apostles which form the message of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is were more widespread and more respected, the world in which we live would be transformed into a better, more fraternal place."

Dr. Paul Lesourd, Author
Professeur Honoraire, Catholic University of Paris

Brook wrote:Deva Premal performance of Moola Mantra

Thank you Brook! Beautiful.

I want to thank Rasa also for encouraging me to re read the Bhagavad Gita. I'm reading it with different eyes due to my personal changes. I'm getting much more meaning than I did the first time.

In chapter two this stuck out for me....

The Illuminated Man

When you keep thinking about sense objects, attachments comes. Attachment breeds desire, the lust of possession that burns to anger. Anger clouds the judgment; you can no longer learn from past mistakes. Lost is the power to choose between what is wise and what is unwise, and your life is utter waste. But when you move amidst the world of sense, free from attachment, and aversion alike, there comes peace in which all sorrows end, and you live in wisdom of Self.

Now to me this says integration of self with source....less the attachment of objects...as we are all one. Krishna warns the mind (or emotion) will follow where ever they lead after immediate pleasure, which is generally at odds with long term benefit. Eventually a person following his senses loses strength of will and unity of purpose. His choices are dictated by his desires. When the will is led astray by the desire for pleasure, the mind becomes confused and scattered. Ultimately, Krishna warns, this leads to spiritual destruction.

I believe it also sticks out due to the fact that this world we live in now has become so materialistic that it detracts from the integration of self with source leading to that spiritual connection.

But I'll read on...just thought I'd share that part as it stuck out. And again thanks Rasa for that gentle encouragement.

I was rambling and you Brook transformed so well. how do you do that?! Thank you!

Brook, just wanted to add that SPrabhupada's books are accepted as a standart curriculum textbooks at the colleges and universities around the world and sending you a link bellow for B.Gita As It Is

From Wikipedia
"It is believed that Prabhupada's most significant contribution are his books.[49][50][51] Within the final twenty years of his life Prabhupada translated over sixty volumes of classic Vedic scriptures (such as the Bhagavad Gita and the Srimad Bhagavatam,Chaitanya Caritamrita, Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu, Upadesamrita etc.) into the English language.[41] For their authority, depth, and clarity, his books have won praise from professors at colleges and universities like Harvard, Oxford, Cornell, Columbia, Syracuse, Oberlin, and Edinburgh,[52] and his Bhagavad-Gītā As It Is was published by Macmillan Publishers, in 1968 and unabridged edition in 1972,[53][54][55] and is now available in over sixty languages around the world and some other books by Prabhupada are available in over eighty different languages.

[S.Prabhupada'sViews on other religious traditions

Prabhupada considered Moses, Jesus, and Mohamed to be empowered representatives of God, describing them within his writings as pioneers of the same essential message of dedication to God with love and devotion.[59]
“ "Actually, it doesn't matter – Krishna or Christ – the name is the same. The main point is to follow the injunctions of the Vedic scriptures that recommend chanting the name of God in this age." [60] ”
Other typical expression presents a different perspective, where Prabhupada would point out that "today I may be a Hindu, but tomorrow I may become a Christian or Muslim. In this way faiths can be changed, but dharma" is a natural sequence, a natural occupation or a connection and it can not be changed, because it is permanent, according to him."

Sorry, I forgot to put a link.
here is link to Bhavagad-Gita As It Is

Rasa wrote:

I thought it will be of interest mainly for two reasons:
1) Dr.Dean Brown is a theoretical physicist and sanskrit scholar mentions how modern days science is influenced by sanscrit and Vedic cosmology.

He was mentioning Sri Isopanisad . This is an invokation verse.

2) oḿ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaḿ
pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate
pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya
pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate

TRANSLATION

The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.

Great video! Thank you Rasa. I see tendency that physicists studied and study Vedas without glorifying Vedas. Surprise surprise. It seems it is too powerful knowledge that needs to be kept hidden. I think since 18th century scientists in Germany were exploring Vedas for the search of discovered atom there description. I see it is too powerful for human ego knowledge and it makes sense why even basic understanding of our existence of who we are is behind curtains. Arrrgggg to TPTB

Thank you Rasa for that link. I'll check it out.

Mercuriel wrote:

"There is only One of Us..."

Rasa wrote:
What do you mean, Mercuriel ?

In the Beginning was the Void and the Void was with Prime Creator - The One...

From No Thing came Some Thing...

Void Begat Singularity - From Zero came One...

Singularity Begat Duality - From One came Two...

Duality Begat Trinity - From Two came Three...

Trinity Begat Quantum Expression - From Three came Four - And the Omniverse / Creation has moved on ever since. Cyclic - Changeable - Eternal and Infinite...

-//-

In the Law of Subsets and Unity of all things under Prime Creator We are as Cells in the Body so to say or believe that a Cell is not part of the Body and Vice Versa is patently false...

Thank you Mercuriel for your answer. I fully agree with you that we are like cells in the body of the Creator and therefore in that sense we can say we are One with Him. I asume we have the same understanding that the Absolute Truth or Creator being Absolute includes everything existing within Him: material and spiritual, moving and nonmoving. If we say that He does not include everything He would loose His status as Absolute. If we say He doesn't have personality He can't be Absolute anymore. At the same time if He has a personality then He is the Supreme Person.
Absolute Truth personal and inpersonal at the same time. Just like the sun is always have sunlight the Supreme always has effulgence of impersonal brahmajoti, were yogis attain nirvana.

Non sectarian speach by Radhanath Swami on suffering.

Rasa:

Thank you Mercuriel for your answer. I fully agree with you that we are like cells in the body of the Creator and therefore in that sense we can say we are One with Him. I asume we have the same understanding that the Absolute Truth or Creator being Absolute includes everything existing within Him: material and spiritual, moving and nonmoving. If we say that He does not include everything He would loose His status as Absolute. If we say He doesn't have personality He can't be Absolute anymore. At the same time if He has a personality then He is the Supreme Person.
Absolute Truth personal and inpersonal at the same time. Just like the sun is always have sunlight the Supreme always has effulgence of impersonal brahmajoti, were yogis attain nirvana.

Interesting.. Rasa, thank you for your postings very much.
I would like to understand how buddhism fails to compile fully with Vedas (consciousness and soul science), why nirvana is not an answer to true realization.
The way back to the divine is through atma. The goal in this material life is to understand and realize that connection. The material gratification is not taking us anywhere. Those who think they are gods Vedas says may become stone counsciousness in the next life. When Krishna was asked what is the most amazing thing about human mind, he said that the most amazing thing about humans is that they think they will not die. The human mind lives temporary and different and busy life. They can see that others are dying around, but they can not comprehense for themselves. This is amazing.
Please forgive me Rasa for my rambling I write software so logic and goal comes first.
Why Vedas are not popular and not available to masses. I see devotees of Krishna consciousness are not suffering and are not attached to politics, economics, wars. They are not inslaved and not controled by TPTB so to speak. We here are fighting against their plans. I see connection that TPTB would hide the knowledge to change humans to higher achievements and against of controling the mind. Is it intentionally done?
There are mantras, tantras and yantras. In the video Dean Brown who studied and translated Upanishads mentioned that tantras in west became shamanic practices. I understand that proper tantras for liberation are good, but at the same time they are so powerful that shamanic practices gave beginning increasingly escalate the control of other humans. I know it is Kali Yuga, but in previous yugas maybe the knowledge of Vedas was more vast and pure. The devolution of humanity became completely insane in activities.

I was thinking about tantras empowering negative energies to move along with (indo-europien) languages from the east to west maybe created the kingdoms and wars and etc.
If we are western cultures from shamanic rituals and practices evolved and the power given in Vedas was missused long time ago, it makes sense that the Vedic knowledge is hidden. Humanity need to get back the true meaning of life.

I hope I made at least somewhere sense....

Wow, those are great insights Devakas. I hope your questions can be answered as I'd love to hear them.

Sanicle wrote:

Wow, those are great insights Devakas.

I agree with Sanicle, good questions, and a lot of them too! Actually we can speak on these topics for another ten months. I will try to condense the answers. Please give me two or tree days to get back to Avalon. I will be busy for a few days.
See you soon.

P.S. Sorry Sanicle, I misspel your name twice in the previous post.

No worries about the misspelling Rasa. Easily done. Must add though that I'm blown away that you can answer those questions and that you're going to spend so much time to do so.

No, just busy. I will try to be back soon.

Kali Goddess (explanation from the original source)



Ortho was asking ..lion questions about Kali goddess of this time. It appears she is stepping on the human ego to destroy it.
The Vedas source description of the Kali:


about kali demigoddess from Bhagavad Gita As Is.

istan bhogan hi vo deva dasyante yajna-bhavitah tair dattan apradayaibhyo yo bhunkte stena eva sah

istan-desired; bhogan-necessities of life; hi-certaintly; vah-unto you;
devah-the demigods; dasyante-will award;
yajna-bhavitah- being satisfied by the performance of sacrifices;
taih-by them; dattan-things given; apradaya-withour offering;
ebhyah-to these demigods; yah-he who; bhunkte-enjoys; stenah-thief;
eva-certainly; sah-he

In charge of the various necessities of life, the demigods, being satisfied by the performance
of yajna [sacrifice], will supply all necessities to you.
But he who enjoys such gifts without offering them to the demigods in return is certainly a thief.

Purport by Swami Prabhupada:
The demigods are authorized supplying agents on behalf of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu.
Therefore, they must be satisfied by the performance of prescribed yajnas. In the Vedas,
there are different kinds of yajnas prescribed for different kinds of demigods, but all are ultimately
offered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

For one who cannot understand what the Personality
of Godhead is, sacrifice to the demigods is recommended.

According to the different material qualities of the
persons concerned, different demigods is also on the same basis-namely, according to different qualities.
For example, the meat-eaters are recommended to worship the goddess Kali, the ghastly form of material nature, and
before the goddess the sacrifice of animals is recommended. But for those who are in the mode of goodness, the
transcendental worship of Visnu is recommended.

But ultimately all yajnas are meant for gradual promotion to the
transcendental position. For ordinary men, at least five yajnas, known as Panca-maha-yajna, are necessary.
One should know, however, that all the necessities of life that the human society requires are supplied by the
demigod agents of the Lord, No one can manufacture anything. Take, for example, all the eatables of human society. These
eatables include grains, fruits, vegetables, milk, sugar, etc.,
for the persons in the mode of goodness and also eatables for the nonvegetarians, like meats, none of which
can be manufactured by men. Then again, take for example heat, light, water, air, etc., which are also necessities of life-
none of them can be manufactured by the human society. Without the Supreme Lord, there can be no produse sunlight, moonlight,
rainfall, breeze, etc., without which no one can live.

Obviously, our life is dependent on supplies from the Lord.
Even for our manufacturing enterprises, we require so many raw materials like metal, sulphur, mercury, manganese,
and so many essentials- all of which are supplied by the agents of the Lord, with the purpose that we should make
proper use of them to keep ourselves fit and healthy for the purpose of selfrealization, leading to the ultimate goal
of life, namely, liberation from the material struggle for existence. This aim of life is attained by performance
of yajnas. If we forget the purpose of human life and simply take supplies from the agents of the Lord for sense
gratification and become more and more entangled in material existence, which is not the purpose of creation, centainly we
become thieves, and therefore we are punished by the laws of material nature. A society of thieves can never be happy,
because they have no aim in life. The gross materialist thieves have no ultimate goal of life. They are simply
directed to sense gratification; nor do they have knowledge of how to perform yajnas. Lord Caitanya, however, inaugurated the easiest
performance of yajna, namely the sankirtana-yajna, which can be performed by anyone in the world who accepts the principles of Krsna consciousness.


devakas:
Above is the explanation about Kali as an agent in this time of period. There are my questions in mind: are we so shudras that we
can not understand the material nature laws anymore? Are we so blind that we do not know anymore what is given to us naturally, is our consicousness so mud that we create temporary things (humans as 'gods') and fail all the time?
it reminds me us as ants. "Do we care when an ant does mistake"? Does god cares when we do mistakes? What consciousness people think we do now? For me it seems a bit muddy water.

However there are some great souls who express gratitude before entering forest, not to enjoy only but to thank. or talk to plants or talk to animals. Does it
mean that they know that it is given and they do not act as thieves? There are cultures that say a prayer before eating dinner.
However the question is - do most of us give indirectly the sacrify to the goddess Kali by sacrifying animals. hmmmm...
we can not deny that we sacrify animals daily and really alot a lot.... maybe it is what Vedas write about knowing our poor consciousness in kali yuga last and worst of yugas times? Does it mean that we all indirectly participating in sacrify of animals and other gods gifts. Is our consciousness pure to understand it?

Also I think with human mind being wonderous it is not surprise that we can see many paintings of their personal understanding and interpretation of goddess Kali. I was told that there is no question in Vedas that would be not answered (speaking about human mind questions, any, all).

I don't see any references to Kali in this verse of B.Gita, Devakas.


Also, what do you mean by : "we sacrify animals daily?"

Devakas wrote:

However the question is - do most of us give indirectly the sacrify to the goddess Kali by sacrifying animals. hmmmm...
we can not deny that we sacrify animals daily and really alot a lot....

Sorry Devakas,
You are right. I guess I shouldn't stay up so late at night. Somehow I overlooked that there is a reference to the worshipers of Kali in Srila Prabhupada's purport which explains that the Vedas contain regulations for even those who are in the lowest stages of ignorance. I was just so shocked by seeing Kali's picture referring to a Bhagavad Gita's verse that I was really taken back. Lord Krishna condemns the worship of demigods. He clearly states that those who worship the demigods are of a lesser intelligence. (B.G. 7.20).

In other words there are those who are simply too fallen to understand higher truths. They are only interested in the basest of animalistic so-called pleasures. However, if these persons at least can follow the instructions given in the Vedas rather than their own concoctions it would save them because only the Supreme Lord can show us the way out from the maze of this material world. The Bhagavad Gita never instructs us to worship goddess Kali. Bhagavad Gita teaches us how to achieve the mode of goodness and ultimately the Supreme Lord.

Sometimes people who see pictures such as goddess Kali may lump everything together and make their own conclusions. First one should know the ABC's of spiritual life, i.e., who they are, what our responsibilities are, were are we on the map of spiritual progress, etc.
The Vedas are all inclusive. The Supreme Lord loves even the most fallen amongst His children. So He gives instructions for the most degraded of human society. Now-a-day's many people are so unfortunate that they don't even know about or acknowledge Supreme Lord's existence, what to speak about His instructions.

In order to really understand the Vedas we first have to understand the three gunas (modes) of material nature: goodness, passion and ignorance, and that's a big topic. According to what guna our conciseness is in, that's how we understand the world. So if a person in goodness is speaking with a person in ignorance their conversation may not go too far. The three gunas are pervading everywhere in nature as well as in human society. We can see that in our daily life, and only by guidance of an expert teacher we can transcend these three modes of material nature and attain freedom.

I think you were a little confused about the definition of sacrifice in that verse. We can't do scarifies indirectly. Also to eat meat unrestrictedly is not a sacrifice. According to the Vedas it is a crime. The first of the ten commandments in old testament is "thou shalt not kill". However, the pure teachings of Jesus are not being followed either. The only most commen sacrifices in the modern age people are performing is that they are working 80 hour week.

I just wanted to clear up a confusion that people often have. Because of lack of knowledge demigods like Kali often are misidentified with ghost worshipping.

Clear distinction has to be made between Devatas (demigods) and Bhutas (ghosts}. Some Bhutas require animal sacrifices or even human sacrifices. They consume through the sacrifice of the ghost worshipers. This is the way bhutas enjoy and feed themselves. These are entities who previously had a gross material body as any of us but due to leading a very sinful life or dyeing while intoxicated or having committed suicide after quitting the gross body at death they are punished by being forced to enter a subtle material body (not to be mistaken with a spiritual body). They live on the mental plane of existence and basically only being able to exist with mind they slowly go crazy.

Some of them are very powerful and demoniac. It is not unusual for these being to linger in bars and mental hospitals where prey upon the mentally weak or those that are intoxicated. They sometimes temporarily inhabit and possess the bodies of their victims and enjoy base earthly delights through the bodies of humans beings and sometime even animals. People who are hungry for power and money sometimes worship them to get what they want. At times it can get really creepy when influential people of this world get involved in worshiping ghosts. There are also good (friendly) ghosts who are entrapped in the subtle bodies as well. These entities can actually be benevolent and can help people. It should be understood those who are in subtle bodies (people usually call them spirits, good or bad spirits) they are people just like us, good and bad. They are still trapped the in material universe and do not necessarily know about the Absolute Truth. Those bhutas who need to feed on human energy, be they powerful or not, act on us like mental parasites. If the person is weak and can't control his senses than they could be easily influenced and manipulated by them.

On another hand Devatas are servants of the Supreme Lord. They like a ministers who are working for the king. They are very powerful and can sustain themselves without our contribution, but being the Lords agents and supplying all our necessities they need some acknowledgement and reciprocation. Just like parents can live without children, but because parents care for them they want acknowledgement and reciprocation. That's why some universal ethics and cooperation should be followed even for those who are very fallen in order to progress toward ultimate happiness. Because in this age there is no acknowledgement or cooperation from the human society of the gifts of nature we see raping of the earth to the last limits and exploitation of one another.

People are turning this earth in to hell and we see the results from mother nature as well. Goddess Kali doesn't need anyone's bloody sacrifices. Hope I have cleared that mystery. If you want more details on this topic please let me know. I will send you references.


Bhagavad Gita As it is 9.25: Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship ghosts will take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will live with Me.

P.S. worship in this context can be also admiration.

Cool! THank you Rasa for clearing up the difference between servants demigods and demonic entities. The verse I used about Kali is 3.12.

Today organized religions are corrupted, people are alergic to religions, gov is corrupted. Money is god. Do you think demonic entities are worshiped today by those on the top of pyramid? It does not look like demigods are helping now humans. This is why I twisted the thought about us humans being under cloud for truth, killing and not feeling guilty. Why the consioucness is not clear. How corrupted people are? Are we indirectly supporting demons of the destruction ?

I was searching about consciousness in B.G. and found amazing explanation what is our consciousness. Hope you enjoy as I did. I couldnot tolerate the urge to post it for those who are interested what consciousness, matter is.
____________

A living force or a living entity is originally spiritual, pure and free from all material contaminations. Therefore, by nature an entity is not subject to the sins of material world. But when it is in contact with the material nature, the entity acts in many sinful ways without hesitation, and sometimes even against its will.

Bhagavad Gita As It Isby Swami Prabhupada

sri-bhagavan uvaca kama esa krodha esa rajo-guna-samudbhavah
mahasano maha-papma viddly enam iha vairinam

sri-bhagavan uvaca- the Personality of Godhead said; kamah-lust;
esah-this; krodhah-wrath;esah-this;rajah-guna-the mode of passion;
samudbhavah-born of; maha-asanah-all devouring; maha-papma- greatly sinful;
viddhi- know; enam-this; iha- in the material world; vairinam- greatest enemy.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact
with the material mode of passion and later transformed into wrath,
and which is the all- devouring sinful enemy of this world.

Purport: When a living entity comes in contact with the material creation,
his eternal love for Krisna is transformed into lust, in association with the mode of passion.
Or, in other words, the sense of love of God becomes transformed into lust, as milk in contact
with sour is transformed into yogurt. Then again, when lust is unsatisfied, it turns into wrath;
wrath is transformed into illusion, and illusion continues the material existence.

Therefore, lust is the greatest enemy of the living entity, and it is lust only which induces the
pure living to remain entangled in the material world. Wrath is the manifestation of the mode of ignorance;
these modes exhibit themselves as wrath and other corollaries. If, therefore, the mode of passion,
instead of being degraded into the mode of ignorance, is elevated to the mode of goodness
by the prescribed method of living and acting, then one can be saved from the degradation of wrath
by spiritual attachment.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead expanded Himself into many for His ever-increasing spiritual bliss,
and the living entities are partsand parcels of his spiritual bliss. They also have partial independence,
but by misuse of their independence, when the service attitude is transformed into the propensity for
sense enjoyment, they come under the sway of lust. This material creation is created by the Lord
to give facility to the conditioned souls to fulfill these lustful activities, the living entities
begin to inquire about their real position.

This inquiry is the beginning of the Vedanta-sutras, wherein it is said, athato brahma jijnasa:
one should inquire into the Supreme. And the Supreme is defined in Srimad-Bhagavatam as janmady asya
yato 'nvayad itaratas ca, or, herefore the origin of lust is also in the Supreme. If, therefore, lust is
transformed into love for the Supreme, or transformed into Supreme consciousness- or,
in other words, desiring everything for Krsna- then both lust and wrath can be spiritualized.
B.G. 3.37

dhumenavriyate vahnir yathadarso malena ca yatholbenavrto garbhas tatha tenedam avrtam

dhumena- by smoke; avriyate- is covered; vahnih-fire; yatha- just as; adarsah-mirror; malena-by dust; ca-also;
yatha-just as; ulbena-by the womb; avrtah- is covered; garbhah- embryo; tatha- so; tena-by that lust;
idam-this; avrtam- is covered.

As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the embryo is covered by the womb,
the living entity is similarly covered by different degrees of this lust.


Purport: There are three degrees of covering of the living entity by which his pure consciousness
is obscured. This covering is but lust under different manifestations like smoke in the fire,
dust on the mirror, and the womb about the embryo.
When lust is compared to smoke, it is understood that the fire of the living spark can be a little perceived.In other words, when the living entity exhibits his Krsna consciousness slightly, he may be
likened to the fire covered by smoke. Although fire is necessary where there is smoke,
there is no overt manifestation of fire in the early stage. This stage is like the
begining of creator consciousness.
The dust on the mirror refers to a cleansing process
of the mirror of the mind by so many spiritual methods. The best process is to chant the
holy names of the Lord.

The embryo covered by the womb is an analogy illustrating a helpless position, for the child
in the womb is so helpless that he cannot even move. This stage of living condition can be
compared to that of the trees. The trees are also living entities, but they have been put
in such a condition of life by such a great exhibition of lust that they are almost void
of all consciousness. The covered mirror is compared to the birds and beasts, and the smoke-
covered fire is compared to the human being. In the form of a human being, the living entity
may revive a little consciousness, and, if he makes further development, the fire of spiritual
life can be kindled in the human form of life. By careful handling of the smoke in the fire, fire
can be made to blaze. Therefore the human form of life is a chance for the living entity to escape
the entanglement of material existence. In the human form of life, one can conquer the enemy,
lust, by cultivation of Krsna consciousness under able guidance.

B.G. 3.39

Devakas wrote:

Today organized religions are corrupted, people are alergic to religions, gov is corrupted. Money is god. Do you think demonic entities are worshiped today by those on the top of pyramid? It does not look like demigods are helping now humans. This is why I twisted the thought about us humans being under cloud for truth, killing and not feeling guilty. Why the consioucness is not clear. How corrupted people are? Are we indirectly supporting demons of the destruction ?

Great points Devakas. I think you answered all of your questions.

I don't know who is being worshiped by those on the top of a pyramid. I actually don't want to know.
I am bussy enough to fight my own demons.

Rasa, what demons do you have in mind?
How to help humanity in the current mess we are in?

I would like to share a little miracle what happened.
My daughter student asked me to take her to LA. She, like many
young, likes the japanese anime and she decided to save money,
hotel by volunteering for the annual convention this year.
I had to take her to Pasadena next to Los Angeles. They had practice repetition.
Saturday, we definitely left too late. Everybody try to hit a beach.
To go to Pasadena from Laguna is good 1:30 hours. We left 11AM.
She was dressed in some anime maiden character dress, worried that we will be late.
I realized that it is no luck to be on time.
I started conversation to escape the all panic and negativity while driving.
We talked about life, three modes of matter,
fear, passion and etc. She told me that the girl she is visiting
in a mansion lives alone. There are 7 bedrooms and 3 kitchens, a few jacuzzii,fountain...
It appears that they have many such mansions. However the girl is not happy at all,
father died from cancer 5 years ago. Would she be happier to have 20 of those mansions?

We talked about values of life and true happiness, mind and ego, death...
I realized that we stuck in traffic and there is no way we will be at
least half an hour late. I kept talking about Krishna, how He is personality as all in nature and us
have the same atributes. We talked about Japan. (she wants to study advanced physics next summer in Japan) :(.
I finally realized that we got lost and we were heading towards San Bernardino.
Whatever, I could not do anything about being on time. We turned back towards LA.
And kept talking about Krishna, physics, energy, sound, human consciousness, happiness
and human control, education today and what Krishna is teaching is not acceptable to young people.
I was freaked out to look at the clock. We kept talking about Krishna,
my dauthger knew the story about king and butterfly from japanese anime.
When I stopped the car next to mansion, I looked at the clock. It was 12:00.
Her other friends arrived seconds later and I got chance to meet them.
My daughter and me looked at each other how it was strange with time. We did not know how we managed to be on so perfect time. I sat in a car for a minute in a nice shock.
I text to her that maybe it is Krishna who expended the time because we were all with Him, thinking about Him.
She text me back - Strange. Drive back save with Krisna :).
I would not post this experience if it would not happened before, if I would not realize that it happened the same three weeks back. Then we thought it was just luck.
I googled direction time for this distance it was 1:20 in normal conditions. We were lost and we had traffic of 30 min additionally to that.
Weird time 12:00, weird coincidence, strange time collapse, was it Krisna taking care of our time?