The Infiltration of New Age Movement

Floyd,

Have you noticed that this tread about The Infiltration of New Age Movement. It is not about promoting it! You have your tread about New Age and you will find people who will enjoy your posts. I don’t! I lost my interest to know what you think. Can you respect this?

http://www.themistsofavalon.net/inspirations-f34/the-infiltration-of-new-age-movement-ii-t1142.htm

"We must protect ourselves from even the new age movement, and have great discernment, for there are many false prophets and cult movements in operation."

Quote from - Psychic Self-Defense By Dr Joshua David Stone

http://unearthly-souls.tribe.net/thread/fa4aa563-1810-427d-8e6e-bcb764cff560

www.iamuniversity.ch/Psychic...-Defense

"You cannot win this battle and gain self mastery until you know what you are fighting. This chapter will deal with helping you to develop an arsenal of psychological and spiritual tools to win this war. It will also point out the enormous barrage of negative energy that is coming from the environment, other people, the astral plane, the mental plane, and the etheric plane."

We are in an all out war, like no other, and the battle lines are constantly changing.

Andromeda wrote:Blavatsky was the daughter of an aristocratic German general who financed her travels, although there is no evidence that she ever traveled to Tibet. There are no tickets, or any photos that indicated she was ever in Tibet

Other strange fact is that she was part of the Golden Dawn freemason lodge and one is to ask, how a woman in late 19th century was allowed to enter, yet alone be member, of such lodge? When here in Britain women were treated like "wards" or children and did not even had the right to hold their own money?...My conclusions after reading a lot about the subject are that either she was a powerful sorcerer (like John Dee = 007) or she had very hight level connections with the Royal Family

Either way, what is good for the illuminati is not good for us. In case no one knows, we are being demised by them and their very dark plans for humanity

Hitler was heavily influenced by Blavatsky and so was Alister Crowley. Both perhaps the most evil men of the 20th century, it makes you wonder what did they learned from her teachings that persuade them that being evil is ok. It is a fascinating subject

Information about the family trees of both Blavatsky and Crowley is readily available on the internet. Crowley himself came from a well to do family and studied in Trinity college Cambridge, a rare privilege in his time where university studies were only for the upper classes

This is untrue, The Golden Dawn was not a freemasonic lodge but an Occult Society of which Crowley was a member and Blavatsky was not a member. The Golden dawn is not Theosophical in origin but was spawned from the writings of a mysterious Gernman Rosicrucian woman. Some members of the Golden Dawn were members of the Theosophical Society or The Rosicruician Society in Anglia, or had now left them. Blavatsky was not one of them.

There is indeed a lot of information available on the internet. Unfortuatley nor all of it is true or well researched.
Again I would repeat what I posted earlier that Hiler banned all Theosophical groups in addition to occult groups. He was not influenced by theosophy and he dismisses volkish quasi mystical pondering as a place for fanatsists and a distraction. (I might add here that the Theosophical society is not an occult group. It did have an Esoteric Section for a while but the majority of Theosophists are not and do not engage in Occult practices.)

Indeed bothe Hitler and Crowley were truly Evil. It does not follow that because they may or may not have read certain literature at one point in their lives that this causes them to comit evil acts. Millions of people have read Catcher in the Rye but only one person killed John Lennon.

When one studies the History of the Theosophical Society one will find it was instrumental in atagonisting that bastion of the Illuminati known as the British Empire.( Blavatsky was followed bt the British Secret Service on several occasions. It reintroduced the native religions to Ceylon and India much to the chagrin of the Christian missionaries. It was instrumental in the Indian home rule movement giving freedom back to India from the claws of colonial rule. Mahatma Ghandi was a great admirer of the Theosophical Society. Additionaly early theosophists did much to support inequality to women and the womans sufferage movement aswell as early efforts to oppose vivesection and cruelty to animals. The Aryans of the Nazis and the Indo Aryan root race of Blavatsky or not remotley similar, the former being twisted to suit teutonic German racial superiority by some members of the Nazi party who were not very bright.

Floyd,

Have you noticed that this tread about The Infiltration of New Age Movement. It is not about promoting it! You have your tread about New Age and you will find people who will enjoy your posts. I don’t! I lost my interest to know what you think. Can you respect this?

Starninja. This is a topic that is open for debate so if you dont mind please let me do so. I didnt read anywhere that this was a thread for one particular view point over another. We are here to discuss are we not? Firstly I am not promoting the new age movement as it does not exist. Nor am I promoting the vague and sometimes tenuously related teachers, groups and societies that grouped together are called the New age Movement, in a rather sloppy manner I might add.
What I am promoting however,is the fact that much of the material on the internet is amateur, unacademic and very poorly researched. It is much better to read books written by scholars and learned experts on the subject rather than digest some sensastionalist video or some half baked conjectural nonsense as fact when it certainly not the case.
It is my opinion however, that as the Theosophical Society and other movements where so influential in antagonising established Christian religion and the the tentacles of the British empire that there was such a campaign to discredit them. As there is today...though largely through sensationalist disinformation. In the final analysis you will find that it is those who discredit the truth are the enemies of freedom.

Indeed there has been an attempt to infilitrate the so called new age movement.

starninja wrote:
And about Crowley.
http://www.controverscial.com/Aleister%20Crowley.htm

this is sensationalist and very selective. I have found Crowleys writings to be of great interest and benefit, if you look past the intentional shock factor, he knew what he was writing and how to put off those not interested in just scratching the surface. This is no comment on his personal life, I didnt know the man. And i had to work hard to understand his writings, and this from a man who could be very lucid and easy to understand when he wanted to be.

starninja wrote:
Excerpt from Bronte Baxter
http://brontebaxter.wordpress.com/

i read the whole blog, including her response and I see she back tracks a lot on what she wrote, saying she maybe overstated it. I came into this after her comments of Amma, it seems obvious she has never met the lady. Amma has an energy that is tangible and real, and hardly 'dark'.. which for me sums up my biggest issue with folk writing about these subjects:

I have an overwhelming feeling, in general - not for this thread specifically ( I havent read it)- that too much is written and surmised and intellectualized and so little is from personal experience. So much of the eastern philosophies cannot be understood by the mind, they have to be experienced to even begin to understand, then the writings take on a wholly different perspective.

I have little time for new age fluffiness, so I can relate to the title of this thread at least

Vidya Moksha wrote:

starninja wrote:
And about Crowley.
http://www.controverscial.com/Aleister%20Crowley.htm

this is sensationalist and very selective. I have found Crowleys writings to be of great interest and benefit, if you look past the intentional shock factor, he knew what he was writing and how to put off those not interested in just scratching the surface. This is no comment on his personal life, I didnt know the man. And i had to work hard to understand his writings, and this from a man who could be very lucid and easy to understand when he wanted to be.


I think Crowley was something of a dodgey bloke! I think you a right in some respects though Vidya. He was an expert in Occult knowledge and practice but he was also an authority on astrology and the torot and his work has been valued by people who understood that there were many dubious aspects to his other practices and his personality. Not for me but a good point.




I have an overwhelming feeling, in general - not for this thread specifically ( I havent read it)- that too much is written and surmised and intellectualized and so little is from personal experience. So much of the eastern philosophies cannot be understood by the mind, they have to be experienced to even begin to understand, then the writings take on a wholly different perspective.

I have little time for new age fluffiness, so I can relate to the title of this thread at least

The personal understanding of eastern philosophies can be transformative yes. Like you Vidya I have no time for 90% of this so called new age religion. But there are some gems to be discovered.

I am not going to get into a debate here, there is no point to discuss people's opinion because that is all that is being offered here. No evidence as to the sanctity of Blavastky or Crowley.

Those who have eyes will see and spare themselves much,called what you will, freemasons and Rosicrucians were involved so please enough of white wash, the lady does not need defending or does she?



The History of the Golden Dawn

Copyright © 1997 by Chic & S. Tabatha Cicero



The story of the Golden Dawn, like that of any human organization, is replete with high points and low points – with human achievements and human failings. There is no need for us to try to whitewash or sugar-coat the faults of some of the individuals who contributed to the Order's colourful history. Nor should we place them on lofty pedestals and worship them as if they were infallible gurus. They were not. The founders of the Golden Dawn were intelligent, creative individuals who came together to craft a unique system of magical teachings and initiatory rites.

In spite of the shortcomings of some of its founding members, the accomplishments of the Golden Dawn have benefited many people, as is evidenced by just how much of the system has been borrowed by other magical groups. Teachings and rituals that were originally created by the Golden Dawn are now standard fare in many esoteric organizations. This is because the teachings themselves are valid and useful. And for those whose first love is the Golden Dawn tradition, there is no question about its value. In fact, when Golden Dawn magicians are able to come to terms with the mixed bag of the Order's history, they are less likely to fall into the trap of egotism – the scourge of magical Orders and religions alike. Instead, they are more likely to concentrate on what is really important in the Order – spiritual growth. The Great Work.

The Years before the Golden Dawn

In the mid-1800s Europe was experiencing a huge growth of interest in general occultism and the Hermetic Tradition in particular. This interest was seen in England and especially in France. By the mid-1850s the French Occult Revival led by Alphonse Louis Constant, better known as Eliphas Levi, was well underway. In 1854 Levi wrote The Dogma and Ritual of High Magic, which would become a cornerstone of the Western Magical Tradition. Levi was the first person to point out the correspondences between the Tarot and the Qabalah – a theory that would later become an important part of Golden Dawn teachings.

This was a time of discovery, as England continued to explore the farthest reaches of the world. There was much interest in ancient Egypt, as well as the archaic traditions of the Celts and the mysticism of the Far East. However, most occult studies at the time were strictly theoretical. But there was definitely a change in the air with regard to spiritual beliefs. Many people were dissatisfied with the status quo of the orthodox religions. They were hungry for something new and stimulating. The Spiritualist movement evolved to satiate this hunger.

Spiritualism was established as an alternative form of religious belief in America in the late 1840s. Founded in 1848 by the Fox sisters (Margaretta, Leah and Kate), the focus of Spiritualism was on communication with the dead. A deceased person was said to speak through a medium in order to give information to the living. This was sometimes accompanied by certain physical manifestations such as rapping on a table, the moving of objects around the medium and the materialization of the deceased spirit.

Spiritualism caused great excitement and attracted many followers when it came into being, because it provided direct and personal experience with the spiritual. It was dynamic and exhilarating, especially when compared to the tamer, dogmatic experiences of the orthodox churches. However, the limitations of spiritualism were many. It seemed to offer contact with only the lowest levels of the spiritual world – the shells and spirits of the dead. (Magicians have a saying about Spiritualism – "Just because someone has died, doesn't mean they've become any wiser.") Spiritualism was also intellectually unsophisticated and had no tradition to back it up. In addition, there was a disturbing number of mediums who were frauds.

In the 1860s and 1870s there was also an increased interest in Freemasonry, a world-wide fraternity of men, supposed to have been founded at the building of King Solomon's Temple. [1] Freemasonry taught basic morality and required a belief in God as the divine architect of the cosmos. Because of an influx of men who wished to become Masons, there were many new lodges formed during the later part of the 1800s.

In 1875, an organization known as the Theosophical Society was founded in New York City by a group of Spiritualists, Qabalists, Freemasons and Rosicrucians. It was headed by Madame Helena Petrova Blavatsky and Colonel Henry Olcott. Theosophy (meaning "Divine Wisdom") was welcomed by many educated people in America and in Britain, because it offered a vital and stimulating alternative to the religion of the masses. It also offered an alternative to material science, which was busy destroying all the spiritual ideas of the universe. Theosophy was spiritually and intellectually satisfying to people who were looking for a new kind of spirituality. Instead of dead relatives, the Theosophists sought the advice of enlightened Masters – higher spiritual beings. Theosophy also made an intriguing claim to represent an archaic secret tradition. Its aim was to bring the esoteric knowledge of the ancients to the modern world and to study comparative religions, the laws of nature and humanity's spiritual faculties. In addition to promoting the idea of brotherly love, Theosophists also popularized the idea of an esoteric wisdom – teaching that was common to all humanity.

It is interesting to note that there was not a single representative of the Eastern Mystical Tradition among the founders of the Theosophical Society. At this early stage, Madame Blavatsky (or HPB as she was often called) identified her inner contacts, or Secret Chiefs as non-physical masters from an Egyptian Order that was carrying on the work of Zoroaster and Solomon. In other words, the Theosophical Society was founded as a Western esoteric society. Blavatsky's western masters were called Serapis Bey, Polydorus Isurenus, and John King.
More http://www.hogd.co.uk/gd_history_ciceros.htm

As to her real name Colonel Peter von Hahn m. Helena  de Fadeyev b. 1813 d. 24
June 1842 Odessa,  dau. of Andrey Fadeyev [Title was Civil Governor]
and ____ [dau. of  Pr. Dolgorakov [Notes:
 Helena wrote under the nom-de-plume "Zenaida R-va" which helped the
public to be aware of women's suffrage....] Issue:

Helena von HAHN b. 12 Aug 1831
Etakernoslav [Dnepropetrovsk] n. Dnieper River [Ukraine] in southern Russia,
 m. 7 July 1849 n. Erivan / Caucasus, Georgria, Russia to  Nikifor
Blavatsky  [
B-488 ]. Best kown as Madame Blavatsky who was the founder
of the "Modern Theosophical Movement".http://www.remmick.org/Hein.Genealogy/PageHahn.html

She was a German aristocrat which is why Hitler favoured her teachings. Aristocracy = Illuminati

If Satanism and pedophilia is your interest Crowley is your man http://www.texemarrs.com/081998/cricon.htm and I don't care how hard the man is defended he was abominable. What can be learned from an abominable man who called himself the BEAST 666, had sex with little children and did human sacrifices?

The man was so wicked that Hastings council REFUSED to have him cremated in this borough where he died ill and penniless... The house he lodged was DEMOLISHED such was the feeling he evoked. It seems that somehow he got it wrong cos it did not bring him other thing that SELF DESTRUCTION...what goes around comes around it seems

As for the question on whether there was lodge or not

William Wynn Westcott (December 17, 1848 - July, 1925), East London coroner, a Freemason, Theosophist, Qabalist, Supreme Magus of the Societas Rosicruciana and founding member (and organizing genius) behind the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Westcott, along with MacGregor Mathers, initiated Golden Dawn students into the study of the Qabalah, Alchemy, Astrology, Geomantic and Tarot Divination, Tattwa Vision and the Pentagram Ritual.

Before the Golden Dawn had its own Lodge, its rituals (the Isis-Urania) were performed, covertly, in a Masonic Lodge Hall:

“From the beginning, the ceremonies of Isis-Urania were conducted at Mark Masons’ Hall in Great Queen Street (now demolished) but members were careful not to embarrass the Masonic authorities, being told that they ‘must not enter Mark Masons’ Hall by the front door, but go under archway and down passage, entering by a door on the right”

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Freemasonry.htm

The Golden Dawn was not officially connected with Free masonry but hard more to do with co-masonry. This is different. It is open to both men and women. What is meant by lodge is a meeting place where things are discussed and not practiced. It was not a freemasonic lodge per se. Its origins as a bona fide Free masonic organisation are unlikley. The Theosophical Society has lodges but it is not a freemasonic organisation. Members of the Hermetic Order of the Golden dawn came from masonry some from the Theosophical Society and others from the Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia, a masonic Rosicrucian Society. In fact the initaition grade structure of the Golden Dawn was in line with the Rosicrucian Society rather than freemasonry.

With such a strong Masonic background, Westcott was familiar with the notion of organization through hierarchy. Masonic lodges could not exist without a legitimate charter from the Grand Lodge. Westcott must have felt the need to provide evidence that the Golden Dawn was not something that was merely created out of thin air—that it had a written history. He needed a "pedigree" of a sort to prove that the G.D. had legitimate hierarchical succession from some distant authority. Since such no hierarchical authority existed for the Golden Dawn, Westcott fabricated one. Why did he do this? It was probably the only way he could attract Freemasons and other serious occultists to his new Order.

An additional paper, written in cipher, was inserted into the manuscript by someone—more than likely Westcott himself. This was a letter containing the credentials and address of a woman in named Fraulein Sprengel, Soror Sapiens Dominabitur Astris. According to Westcott, he wrote to Fraulein Sprengel and was informed that she was an Adept of an occult Order (Die Goldene Dammerung, or the Golden Dawn.) She supposedly authorized Westcott, through a series of letters, to establish a new temple in and gave Westcott permission to sign her name on any document that was needed. And in the spring of 1888 Westcott produced a Charter of Warrant for the Isis-Urania Temple #3 of the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn in London.
and

According to its founders, the Golden Dawn was based on a charter from a supposedly ancient German Rosicrucian Lodge, which had written a coded record of their secret occult rituals. (Oddly, the words, when translated, are in English and French.) Westcott claimed to have acquired this mysterious manuscript in 1886, from Reverend A. F. A. Woodford, an elderly Masonic scholar. Copies of these records were subsequently discovered by Westcott among assorted papers of the Swedenborgian Rite that MacKenzie had left after his death in 1886, which Westcott obtained from Woodford's widow. (Another account states that Westcott discovered Woodford's papers in a London antique bookseller's shop.)

Deciphered by Mathers and dubbed the "Cipher Manuscript", the documents were in a simple substitution cipher code; they contained the structural outline of a series of initiation rituals corresponding to the classical Elements of Fire, Air, Water, Earth and Spirit. The manuscript also contained an address of an aged adept named "Fraulein Sprengel" in Germany, to whom Westcott wrote inquiring about the contents of the papers. Fraulein Sprengel responded, and after accepting the requests of Westcott and Mathers, issued them a charter to operate a Lodge of the Order in England. Westcott's first Golden Dawn Temple was the Isis-Urania Lodge, styled "No.3". Temple No.1 would have been Fraulein Sprengel's lodge, and No. 2 was supposedly an abortive attempt at a lodge by MacKenzie with other S.R.I.A. members some years earlier.

The copy of the original charter, if it existed, has been lost. The concepts contained in the manuscripts are not very different from the symbolism and philosophy of high-degree Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism, and MacKenzie and the members of the S.R.I.A. were certainly capable enough esoteric scholars to have distilled their knowledge into the form followed by the Golden Dawn. However, nothing can be proven either way. Years later, debate over the authenticity of the Cipher Manuscripts and the authority of the Charter contributed to the first great schism of the Order.

http://www.osogd.org/library/biscuits/history.html

So in other words. The ligitimate freemasonic origins of the Hermatic Order of the Golden dawn (apart from the fact that a few of its members where freemasons or co masons)is highly questionable. People who prctice yoga in church halls are not always christians. The fact that the exoteric branch convened in a masonic hall does not automatically mean that all its members are some kind of evil satanists!

I would have to concur that Crowley was a nasty piece of work. But the fact is he remains influential despite his personality.

Yes Blavatsky's father was from German stock. So what. I once had a half German girlfriend. Fortunately for me she was not a satanic jew eliminating psycopath. As stated above and I will state again for the third time so it finally sinks in. Hitler came across certain elements of bastardised theosophy early in his career but soon turned against them (whilst remaining a genocidal mono testicled psycopath).
Again people can read anything they want and make what they will of it. Albert Einstein also kept a copy of the Secret Doctrine on his desk.
the fact that Guido Von List and Lanz von Liebenfels misinterpred any Theosophical literature they came accross to suit their own twisted theories was entirely up to them. Again. Hitler BANNED all Theosophical and ocuult and fraternal socities when he came into power.

I am not defending anyone but am seperating fact from fiction.
To understand why Blavatsky was not a precursor of Nazism read here

u[rl=http://www.katinkahesselink.net/faq/ariosophy.html]http://www.katinkahesselink.net/faq/ariosophy.html[/url]

H.P. Blavatsky was not a nazi. She lived and died in the 19th century when nazism didn't exist yet.

Nazism and Neo-nazism are ways of looking at the world where differences between people are used to rationalize 'purification' of the human race by killing out a portion of them (jews, homosexuals etc.).

Theosophists on the other hand try to embody in their organisation a universal brotherhood, without distinction of race , creed, sex, caste (etc.) ( theosophical objects ). This is the first and most important of the three objects of the Theosophical Society. This object was already in place when Blavatsky died in 1891. She stressed in her 'Key to Theosophy' that if the Theosophical Society was successful it would (p. 305):

break down racial and national antipathies and barriers; it will open the way to the practical realisation of Brotherhood of all men.

This is obviously a far cry from the idea that it is useful and proper to just kill off all Jews, which is what Ariosophy amounts to. Theosophists in general are not aware of the online claims that Blavatsky inspired Nazi Germany. If they were aware of this, they would be shocked, because Nazism goes against everything they believe in.

Unfortunately this does not mean that there is no historical connection between Blavatsky's theosophy and Ariosophy. To properly understand this, we have to place both Blavatsky and the early Ariosophists in their time and place.

Time: the 19th century. Darwin's theory of evolution was starting to become more generally known and since it was so impressive it was used not just as an explanation of how the different species in the world came into being, but also as a social directive. This application to human society was called 'social darwinism'. Goodrick-Clarke sums up the relationships amongst the various factors involved as follows (p. 14)

The central importance of 'Arian' racism in Ariosophy, albeit compounded by occult notions deriving from theosophy, may be traced to the racial concerns of Social Darwinism in Germany.

This obviously means that the agressive aspect of Ariosophy, namely that other 'races' should be exterminated if and when necessary, comes from Social Darwinism, not Theosophy. This also puts the origin and development of Ariosophy in Germany. Significant may be that in Germany theosophists never succeeded in working together in a 'brotherhood of man'.

Blavatsky's Theosophy does include theories of race, which Goodrick-Clarke sums up decently in his book. I feel that she would have used more politically correct terms if she had known how her theories would be applied. The dangers of those theories being used for rationalising racial hatred were obviously not clear in the 19th century. [ More on how Blavatsky's theories of race can be interpreted in sociological terms ]


To conclude then.

The Theosophical Society is harmless and these days populated by animal lovers and aging men and woman who enjoy mediitating and trying to bring some good into a sometimes cruel and evil world. Im afraid they are not an alien satanic threat being unleashed on the world by the sadistically evil powers that be.


Just to put you out of your misery I am neither a freemason, a member of the Theosophical Society, an occultist, a nazi, a jew hater, a satanist etc etc etc etc

I don't agree with you Floyd, I know about Theosophy and I have attended to their meetings. They practice black magic and it is not innocent. They are connected to evil spirits and that is a fact that I know all too well

Anyway if you want to make an ode to Madam why not open her own thread for her followers. This thread is for those that do not follow anyone and have found disappointment in the lies spreaded by the ruling classes if I am not mistaken?

I thought the idea of the Mysts is that people can believe what they want and don't have to be harassed by those that oppose their views?

Andromeda wrote:I don't agree with you Floyd, I know about Theosophy and I have attended to their meetings. They practice black magic and it is not innocent. They are connected to evil spirits and that is a fact that I know all too well

Anyway if you want to make an ode to Madam why not open her own thread for her followers. This thread is for those that do not follow anyone and have found disappointment in the lies spreaded by the ruling classes if I am not mistaken?

I thought the idea of the Mysts is that people can believe what they want and don't have to be harassed by those that oppose their views?

Since when has debating a topic been known as harrasment?
I have also been to many theosophical meetings. They do not practice black magic. They are not satanic either. They do practice yoga and meditation. They also have very interesting and thought proving speakers from all over the world who are experts in their fields. Many great thinkers, scientists and artists have all been interested and influenced by theosophy from Kandinsky to Edison.
The Theosophical Society is about as dangerous as a one legged man in an arse kicking competition.


This thread is about the New Age Movement being infiltrated. I found It a very interesting one. Again, my argument is this. That there is no such thing as the New Age Movement. Its like Hinduism, it doesnt exist, but it is a collective term for largely differing groups socities and teachings that heve emerged from the late victorian era onwards. Some are quite dubious others not. My position is that certain groups working against black forces and the illuminati-have indeed been infiltrated and had much disinformation placed on the internet about them.
Again the T.S are against British Imperialism, against inequality to women, against cruelty and suffering to animals, against racial intolerance.
To suggest they are satanic is simply ludicrous. This is something that has emerged out of the conspiracy sites of the last 10 years or with the rise of the internet. How many conspiracy sites have been compromised or set up with the sole intention of disseminating disinformation?

Its fine to disagree Andromeda. Its only a discussion about Infiltration.

Floyd wrote:

Andromeda wrote:I don't agree with you Floyd, I know about Theosophy and I have attended to their meetings. They practice black magic and it is not innocent. They are connected to evil spirits and that is a fact that I know all too well

Anyway if you want to make an ode to Madam why not open her own thread for her followers. This thread is for those that do not follow anyone and have found disappointment in the lies spreaded by the ruling classes if I am not mistaken?

I thought the idea of the Mysts is that people can believe what they want and don't have to be harassed by those that oppose their views?

Since when has debating a topic been known as harrasment?
I have also been to many theosophical meetings. They do not practice black magic. They are not satanic either. They do practice yoga and meditation. They also have very interesting and thought proving speakers from all over the world who are experts in their fields. Many great thinkers, scientists and artists have all been interested and influenced by theosophy from Kandinsky to Edison.
The Theosophical Society is about as dangerous as a one legged man in an arse kicking competition.


This thread is about the New Age Movement being infiltrated. I found It a very interesting one. Again, my argument is this. That there is no such thing as the New Age Movement. Its like Hinduism, it doesnt exist, but it is a collective term for largely differing groups socities and teachings that heve emerged from the late victorian era onwards. Some are quite dubious others not. My position is that certain groups working against black forces and the illuminati-have indeed been infiltrated and had much disinformation placed on the internet about them.
Again the T.S are against British Imperialism, against inequality to women, against cruelty and suffering to animals, against racial intolerance.
To suggest they are satanic is simply ludicrous. This is something that has emerged out of the conspiracy sites of the last 10 years or with the rise of the internet. How many conspiracy sites have been compromised or set up with the sole intention of disseminating disinformation?

Its fine to disagree Andromeda. Its only a discussion about Infiltration.

Lets agree to disagree because obviously my experiences have been different than yours. I accept that you think it has not been infiltrated and my impression is that it has been

Peace be with you

[/quote]

Lets agree to disagree because obviously my experiences have been different than yours. I accept that you think it has not been infiltrated and my impression is that it has been

Peace be with you
[/quote]

Yes and you too..
Im all up for a hearty debate it keeps the mind active! I do accept it has been infiltrated. Albeit in a much different way from your understanding of its infiltration.
Best wishes
F

I too agree with Floyd on this because it was the TS library that I first went to and started reading through from one end to the other beginning at age 20. I also read some of the original works of Crowley who was later corrupted and followed the Sons of Darkness. Yet I recall one book I believe on chakras that was quite good. As for Blavatsky, she too was a remarkable person. I read some of her works and something from someone who stayed with her and told how when she wrote and wanted information, she was able to teleport a book from the other side, copy out the information she needed and the book teleported back. Her writing is enlightening and clearly not satanic.

Having been the director of a Child Abuse Prevention Council where it was my job to educate the public, police, social services, the medical community, teachers and so forth.. we did a lot of work around education with respect to ritualistic abuse. One of the members on our board was a victim with MPD and we would have long discussions about what happened to her. I probably know more about this subject then I ever wanted to know and have a clear sense of what it is about. No where in what I've read about Blavatsky indicates she was involved with the Sons of Darkness as a ritualistic practioner. She was on a spiritual mission this lifetime and did it. I saw her work as influencing the thinking of others and really one of the spearheads of the "old age" movement. I say old age because it was at that time I also started practicing yoga, meditation and studying under various spiritual masters out of India. I was drawn to those teachings because they were familiar to my soul and 5,000 years old. The reality is that many of these teachings get mixed up in the New Age movement because the information is new to people of my generation in the United States. Back when I started, people got yogurt mixed up with what yoga was. It was quite amusing and frustrating as well because it took years for the general public to catch up to what I was learning in my early youth.

It was also in the early seventies that The California Institute for Integral Studies was founded and where I first even learned about East/West Psychology and Philosphy and when information from TS was first coming out into main stream. That was why it was considered New Age, because it also was at a time when consciousness was expanding due to the New Age movement of people taking mind-expanding drugs. All of this was happening around the same time. Blavatsky's books were part of our curriculum when I was studying for my Masters in Transpersonal Counseling and she was viewed as an enlightened spiritual being who was trying to bring knowledge/information over from the other side to this side. She did a lot of writing. Crowley on the other hand was into rituals.. and developing personal power for himself which he abused. These are two very different people with two very different life paths.

As for TS, I will always be grateful as it was in their Library where my eyes were first opened.


"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!"

Margaret Mead

I have also read the books of Blavastky and Crowley and I think the situation here is the understanding on what black magic means. ADDED FOR clarity sake after posting: IMHO:

Black magic is anything that is done with the intention to force the free will of another into something they don't agree with. It can be very subtle, or right in one's face like advertising (Jordan Maxwell explains about symbols)

There are of course degrees of Black Magic from the subtle to the sexual orgies (Crowley) and blood rites

It is all a matter of understanding

As for Madam Blavastky there are many who knew she was a trickster

Her harshest critics consider Madame Blavatsky to be "one of most accomplished, ingenious, and interesting impostors in history."* Her devoted followers consider her to be a saint and a genius. [They claim she discovered the true nature of light either by clairvoyance or intuition alone, without any need for scientific training or communication with other scientists.] Since these characteristics are not contradictory, it is possible she was both a fraud and a saintly genius. Much of what is believed about Blavatsky originates with Madame herself, her devoted followers or her enemies. Nevertheless, a few things seem less dubious than others. She seems clearly to have been widely traveled and widely read. Blavatsky claims she spent several years in Tibet and India being initiated into occult mysteries by various "masters" (mahatmas or adepts) especially the Masters Morya and Koot Hoomi, who had "astral" bodies. These Adepts were said to dwell in the Himalayas, Egypt, Tibet and other exotic places. They are known for their extraordinary psychic powers and are the sacred keepers of some mysterious "Ancient Wisdom". They are not divine, she said, but more highly evolved than the rest of us mere mortals. (Evolution, according to Blavatsky, is a spiritual process.) Their goal is to unite all humanity in a Great White Brotherhood, despite the fact that they dwell in the remotest regions of the world and apparently have as little contact with the rest of us as possible.

Blavatsky's deceptions

Blavatsky seems clearly to have had an overpowering personality. She was knowledgeable of the tricks of spiritualists, having worked for one in Egypt, and in the early days of the Theosophical Society seems clearly to have used trickery to deceive others into thinking she had paranormal powers. She most certainly faked the materialization of a tea cup and saucer, as well as written messages from her Masters, presumably to enhance her credibility. She certainly claimed to have paranormal experiences, but whether she really believed she was clairvoyant or possessed psychic powers, I can't say. http://www.skepdic.com/theosoph.html

Starninja wrote:

Floyd,

Have you noticed that this tread about The Infiltration of New Age Movement. It is not about promoting it! You have your tread about New Age and you will find people who will enjoy your posts. I don’t! I lost my interest to know what you think. Can you respect this?

How direct should I be that you can understand what I said? Do you have problem to understand what respect means? Or you maybe think that you are administrator and you can violate people’s boundary. I don’t associate with people in my personal life who are boundary violators. I have zero respect for them. I lost my interest to post on this tread.

starninja wrote:

Starninja wrote:

Floyd,

Have you noticed that this tread about The Infiltration of New Age Movement. It is not about promoting it! You have your tread about New Age and you will find people who will enjoy your posts. I don’t! I lost my interest to know what you think. Can you respect this?

How direct should I be that you can understand what I said? Do you have problem to understand what respect means? Or you maybe think that you are administrator and you can violate people’s boundary. I don’t associate with people in my personal life who are boundary violators. I have zero respect for them. I lost my interest to post on this tread.

Im very sorry but im not interested in you enough to even consider about violating your boundries. In fact im not interested in you whatsoever so please dont flatter yourself. I am interested in debating the infiltration of the new age movement. If you come to the conclusion that some of the facts shown here go counter to what you believe in I understand this may make you feel uncomfortable.

And no. Im not an administrator and nor don I wish to be. Although oddly enough I was once.

Floyd wrote:
Im very sorry but im not interested in you enough to even consider about violating your boundries. In fact im not interested in you whatsoever so please dont flatter yourself. I am interested in debating the infiltration of the new age movement. If you come to the conclusion that some of the facts shown here go counter to what you believe in I understand this may make you feel uncomfortable.

And no. Im not an administrator and nor don I wish to be. Although oddly enough I was once.

Flattered? Haven’t you noticed that I don’t want to have anything with you? I am the last person to be interested what you think. I asked you to go to your tread to discuss you ideas. That’s all.
I guess I gave you too much credit.

Andromeda wrote:

If Satanism and pedophilia is your interest Crowley is your man http://www.texemarrs.com/081998/cricon.htm and I don't care how hard the man is defended he was abominable. What can be learned from an abominable man who called himself the BEAST 666, had sex with little children and did human sacrifices?

The man was so wicked that Hastings council REFUSED to have him cremated in this borough where he died ill and penniless... The house he lodged was DEMOLISHED such was the feeling he evoked. It seems that somehow he got it wrong cos it did not bring him other thing that SELF DESTRUCTION...what goes around comes around it seems

I am not defending Crowley. What i will say is that a lot that was written about him was nonsense, and he made up a lot himself. I didnt know the man, so I cant comment, and those without direct knowledge of his life should equally take care in quoted unkown sources just because they back up a generally held view of someone. I personally dont believe he was a paedophile, but I have no proof.

I do however know some of his writings, especially on spirituality, tarot yoga and astrology, and they are amongst the best I have encountered, he had a deep understanding of these subjects and was the first person I read to join up many dots in these areas. I do not believe some of his yoga claims, he was a drug fuelled boaster as well at times.

He himself perpetuated the notion of his wickedness, and I dare say he had a good laugh in doing so. He was an intrepid traveller well before it was easy or popular to do so.

He did use people, he would find great teachers and go and work with (and abuse?) them. I believe he was also quick to denounce frauds (Waite, Matthews) and this furthered his reputation.

He was also reacting to the values of his time, imagine living in victorian england? So the great mother became the great whore!!! shock, horror, satanist!! well, she was a whore as she accepted everyone and refused no-one. I say again, there is a great spirituality in Crowley's writings if you can be bothered to bypass the hype.

As I mentioned earlier, I did read his works and his chakra book was one of the best I ever came across. As for Madame, I'm not a fan or a denouncer. I appreciate some of the works these people produced. As to their personal lives.. I wasn't there.


However, I do appreciate the clarification on Black Magic as that helped me put into context some of the opinions expressed in the thread.