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    Messengers of Deception

    Floyd
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    Post  Floyd on Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:11 am

    The murky world and political agenda of UFO and alien cults....

    Too many cases of "accidental" alien contact... UFO cults praying to the skies... secret "psychotronic" weapons for bending the human mind. The evidence Jacques Vallee reveals, after many years of scientific investigation, adds up to something more menacing than monsters from outer space.


    http://www.scribd.com/doc/33478326/Jacques-Vallee-Messengers-of-Deception
    Sanicle
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    Post  Sanicle on Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:06 am

    Thanks Floyd.  This book IS a good read.  Always good to have different viewpoints on central questions we are examining. He doesn't seem to be tunnel-visioned in his views either, which is even better. I love you
    Floyd
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    Post  Floyd on Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:44 pm

    Yes . The wise person knows that by and and large alien cults are just fronts for nasty politics.
    Usually unrealisic utopian far right ideologies.
    Love n peace
    f
    mudra
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    Post  mudra on Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:59 pm

    Very glad you posted this one of Jacques Vallée Floyd.
    I have got Forbidden Science of him on my Shelf to read as well.

    Thank You

    Flowers 

    Love from
    mudra
    magamud
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    Post  magamud on Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:46 pm



    "The wise person knows that by and and large alien cults are just fronts for nasty politics."

    Can we just think on the existence of aliens without associating them to unwise people who are racist?

    Your in a paradox. Life is in a dynamic.

    Floyd
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    Post  Floyd on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:12 am

    mudra wrote:Very glad you posted this one of Jacques Vallée Floyd.
    I have got Forbidden Science of him on my Shelf to read as well.

    Thank You

    Flowers 

    Love from
    mudra
    Vallee understands the political orientation of alien and ufo cults. There are some others who have understood this. Of course, all ufo cults have a religious element to them too. Many of them with an amusingly ultra con and often pro american agenda as if by chance lol. Like the american i am cults. America. I am race. Golden cities. So one says.
    From the first american space cult, fascist william pelleys soulcraft religion, to adamskis ufo tibetan religious school, yes he did have one and beyond to a the plethora of alien cults these days, its all a bit blonde haired blue eyed lol.

    Ufo cults were great cover for secret weapons programmes though. That is why the CIA love em so much. Its interesting that the significant majority of them suddenly appeared after world war two in the states lol.
    Like any new religion though, ufoism and alienism has a history that can be easily traced if you do your homework correctly.

    This inteligence lie still persists to this day with fabrications like nibiru. And alleged insiders who are part of this great lie.
    But alienism has also grown into a very lucrative market in addition to its crypto fascist (but sometimes blatently fascist) misinformational obligations.

    Outside of america there have been one or two alien ufo cults but the majority began in the states pre cold war if you catch my drift.

    Like any religion old or new. Its a form of mass mind control at the dimming of the day.
    Brook
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    Post  Brook on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:00 am

    Vallee understands and promotes the interdimensional hypothesis.


    In May 1955, Vallée first sighted an unidentified flying object over his Pontoise home. Six years later in 1961, while working on the staff of the French Space Committee, Vallée witnessed the destruction of the tracking tapes of an unknown object orbiting the earth. The particular object was a retrograde satellite – that is, a satellite orbiting the earth in the opposite direction to the earth's rotation. At the time he observed this, there were no rockets powerful enough to launch such a satellite, so the team was quite excited as they assumed that the Earth's gravity had captured a natural satellite (asteroid). A superior came and erased the tape. These events contributed to Vallée's long-standing interest in the UFO phenomenon.

    In the mid-1960s, like many other UFO researchers, Vallée initially attempted to validate the popular Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (or ETH). Leading UFO researcher Jerome Clark argues that Vallée's first two UFO books were among the most scientifically sophisticated defenses of the ETH ever mounted.

    However, by 1969, Vallée's conclusions had changed, and he publicly stated that the ETH was too narrow and ignored too much data. Vallée began exploring the commonalities between UFOs, cults, religious movements, demons, angels, ghosts, cryptid sightings, and psychic phenomena. Speculation about these potential links were first detailed in Vallée's third UFO book, Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers.

    As an alternative to the extraterrestrial visitation hypothesis, Vallée has suggested a multidimensional visitation hypothesis. This hypothesis represents an extension of the ETH where the alleged extraterrestrials could be potentially from anywhere. The entities could be multidimensional beyond space-time, and thus could coexist with humans, yet remain undetected.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Vall%C3%A9e



    I think Mr Vallee would differ with your opinion here Ployd. Since you are using his book as the title of this thread I think his views on the subject should be relevant here regarding the subject of UFO's and Alien intelligence.  Particularly from18:00 on :



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    Brook
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    Post  Brook on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:52 am

    Sanicle
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    Post  Sanicle on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:43 am

    I agree Brook, although I think Floyd is right also, albeit in only one aspect of what Vallee has to say.  In 'Messengers of Deception' Vallee has given proof that the secret governments (or whatever you want to call them) and other power hungry humans have appropriated the UFO phenomenon to serve their own aims as well, for either religious or political purposes of their own.  But he also made it obvious that he doubts that that's ALL it is...........that he believes much more is going on.............that UFOs are very, very real above and beyond that.

    Interesting, isn't it, that with all his study, intelligence and the equipment he's able to apply, that he still seems unsure of where they come from and who and what they are.  He clearly believes they are able to act interdimensionally, so much so that I had to smile when he said that he'd be disappointed if they did just turn out to be extra-terrestrial visitors lol.

    Oh and thanks for the videos Brook. He's a joy to listen to. I love you 
    Brook
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    Post  Brook on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:49 am

    Vallee has given proof that the secret governments (or whatever you want to call them) and other power hungry humans have appropriated the UFO phenomenon to serve their own aims
    Yes in the last video he says as much. I believe it may have to do with the technology that revolves around the phenomenon regarding space time factors. Classification of secret undisclosed documentation would indicate that now wouldn't it?  Which he also speaks to in the last video starting at about 1:09 in the last video.

    He certainly does believe the phenomenon exists whereas Ployd does not.  

    Or so he says:

    You're welcome. They are good videos glad you like them.

    Interdimensional hypothesis:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdimensional_hypothesis

    Fixin' a (w)hole in the ocean

    Tryin' to make a dove tale joint.





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    magamud
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    Post  magamud on Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:24 am

    More Than Taboo (2013)

    https://vimeo.com/71860632

    Because it is illegal to do so in many states I decided to have a hard look at the Holocaust. Was it really unique? Were there really 6 million deaths? Is there physical evidence for gas chambers? what would be the purpose of exaggerating? I took 9 hours from DenierBud and edited down to an hour and a half. I also took clips from David Stein and Bradley Smith and added my 2 cents. If something is so emotional that you can't even talk about it or discuss it without freaking out then you might want to question yourself. More than 911 more than the military, even more than religion, the holocaust is the most taboo subject there is and there is a reason for that. Its the backbone of modern militarism.
    Floyd
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    Post  Floyd on Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:18 pm

    I would say that that there are no aliens.
    Humans are adept at creating religious archetypes however.
    They have to believe in something after all.
    Aliens or gods.
    I understand people have to objectify things they cannot possibly understand.
    Alien religion is just like any another religion.
    Waiting for hope from the skies that never will come.
    Floyd
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    Post  Floyd on Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:35 pm

    The UFOs will land on the same day as christ returns and the maitreya arrives along with the hidden imamm etc etc.
    I do understand there are are a few deluded prophets out there tho.
    magamud
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    Post  magamud on Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:35 pm

    You have lost yourself floyd.  You are not alone.  You have a relationship with nature and its not some dreamy airy fairy yoga position.

    Im not sure though how people can ignore the facts with UFO sightings, or testimony of religion, unless they call it a disease.  The rise of atheism is muddied and born in religious corruption.  Most atheist are arrogant using the lowest common denominator of humanity.  I think its just a matter of wanting control.  But thats really the point with the ontology of existence.  Its a phenomena and whose life is it when you die?

    But I can see an atheist make the argument that its good for the society.  Like the vaccine argument.  I just can't see how you can tease all the obvious innate relationship people have to life.  An atheist Crusade?  I don't doubt it as we repeat history.

    The state wants to be god and look at its arsenal for control. A technocracy...
    Sanicle
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    Post  Sanicle on Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:09 am

    Floyd wrote:I would say that that there are no aliens.
    Humans are adept at creating religious archetypes however.
    They have to believe in something after all.
    Aliens or gods.
    I understand people have to objectify things they cannot possibly understand.
    Alien religion is just like any another religion.
    Waiting for hope from the skies that never will come.
    Apart from the first line of your statement........that there are no aliens..........I agree with you Floyd.  And Vallee pointed that out very succinctly also in 'Messengers of Deception'.  I wish more people would pay attention to that very important point as I think that, just as the PTW can recognize it, so can any ETs who may be visiting. In fact anyone who wants power and/or attention can work this to serve their own ends, for good or ill, and do.
    Floyd
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    Post  Floyd on Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:02 am

    Sanicle wrote:
    Floyd wrote:I would say that that there are no aliens.
    Humans are adept at creating religious archetypes however.
    They have to believe in something after all.
    Aliens or gods.
    I understand people have to objectify things they cannot possibly understand.
    Alien religion is just like any another religion.
    Waiting for hope from the skies that never will come.
    Apart from the first line of your statement........that there are no aliens..........I agree with you Floyd.  And Vallee pointed that out very succinctly also in 'Messengers of Deception'.  I wish more people would pay attention to that very important point as I think that, just as the PTW can recognize it, so can any ETs who may be visiting. In fact anyone who wants power and/or attention can work this to serve their own ends, for good or ill, and do.
    Some people would talk in terms of astral vampires, posession or demons rather than aliens when talking in terms of giving power away to nasty grim entities who would use things for their own ends. Hence messengers of deception. Channelers and self proclaimed prophets are often subject to this form of psychic manipulation.

    For me however the various alien and UFO cults factions and sects are nothing more than new religious movements.
    Some alien pop culture is blatent government disinfo and other ufo cults a front for groups espousing ideologies of eugenics, racial purity, fascism and spiritual elitism.

    It is of course impossible for anyone to say there is no life out there apart from us. If there is though we have not yet experienced it.
    Perhaps some have been manipulated to think they have within the constraints of the ufo/alien religious archetypes and experience.
    I understand that many defend their alien religion with the same gusto a muslim, jew or scientologist would defend their own religion.

    I would say the quality of literature over the decades put out by various alien religions is incredibly poor, often offensive, entirely unispiring and deeply underwhelming . Then you could say that about many religions.
    Sanicle
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    Post  Sanicle on Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:28 am

    Sanicle wrote:
    Floyd wrote:I would say that that there are no aliens.
    Humans are adept at creating religious archetypes however.
    They have to believe in something after all.
    Aliens or gods.

    I understand people have to objectify things they cannot possibly understand.
    Alien religion is just like any another religion.
    Waiting for hope from the skies that never will come.
    Apart from the first line of your statement........that there are no aliens..........I agree with you Floyd.  And Vallee pointed that out very succinctly also in 'Messengers of Deception'.  I wish more people would pay attention to that very important point as I think that, just as the PTW can recognize it, so can any ETs who may be visiting. In fact anyone who wants power and/or attention can work this to serve their own ends, for good or ill, and do.
    Please remember also that you give power to who or what you believe in.........YOUR OWN innate creative power.......adding yours to what they already possess, to do with as they will.  

    Please remember to double-check with your own inner feelings to be 100% sure that every creed they give you to follow, that you are augmenting with your own beliefs, is in harmony with your own heart and sense of rightness.  

    You are denigrating your own Soul's light........AND ability to teach you what's right for YOU.......... if you give your belief to anything or anyone based on what they've told you to believe without questioning it within, regardless of who they are and what others would have you believe, and whether the main body of their teaching seems to ring true to you.

    Ultimately, when we're done with this life, we'll need to answer only for what we've done with our life, the beliefs we've acted on and created from. I doubt that saying, "Oh, if I made a mistake, it's his/her fault, because they told me what to believe."
    Brook
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    Post  Brook on Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:35 am

    Floyd wrote:
    It is of course impossible for anyone to say there is no life out there apart from us. If there is though we have not yet experienced it.
    Perhaps some have been manipulated to think they have within the constraints of the ufo/alien religious archetypes and experience.
    I understand that many defend their alien religion with the same gusto a muslim, jew or scientologist would defend their own religion.

    "If there is though we have not yet experienced it".

    False.

    The City of Phoenix was not under some mass hallucination when they saw the Phoenix Lights.
    To have something that large under our control is not technologically possible with our science. So I believe it's pretty safe to assume someone/something with a higher technological advancement was in control of the object seen moving slowly over the city.

    There were NO religious overtones by any cults in this siting.  No religious archetypes were seen. Witnessed by regular everyday people.  Some with higher education ie; doctors, police officers, firemen, and of course don't forget the Governor of the state saw it too.  700 people gave statements of what they witnessed.

    Just like the governor of Arizona who made a joke at the conference you Floyd are doing a disservice to generations of people by dismissing the whole thing as some mass  hallucination or manipulation by some religious cults.

    There are many theory's out there as to the who, what, and where of the phenomenon.  A fact or situation that is observed to exist or happen, especially one whose cause or explanation is in question.  But make no mistake that our science is working very hard in the area that would in fact explain this phenomenon.  Physics in particular.  With studies on time dilation, Einstein–Rosen bridge (wormhole theory), and the ever popular  paradoxes resulting from wormhole-enabled time travel which rests on the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.  We also cannot dismiss the debated science of black hole theory as to what's inside that would effect Schrödinger’s cat:




    Seemingly impossible theory to the average mind to conceive with cause or explanation that would certainly be in question. But make no mistake Floyd, GREAT SUMS OF MONEY are being spent on this research that would render credence to the UFO phenomenon and render it within the realm of VERY POSSIBLE once they figure it all out.  I'm here to tell you Floyd they are not being funded or led by some religious cult to explain why Lord Sananda is coming in his spaceship to free humanity or destroy it as the belief might lend itself.

    Now again I will say Mr. Valle lends credence to the interdimensional theory that would make this phenomenon real.  And it has nothing to do with the data of what people and religious cults are leaning toward to explain this very thing.  

    Floyd no matter how hard you try to dismiss the subject of UFO's, you cannot explain away the phenomenon reported by Military and commercial pilots that witness and share such extraordinary events. You cannot dismiss the recorded radar data that has picked up this phenomenon either, which renders it physical in nature.  Hence the lack of science data we now possess that makes this  interdimensional phenomenon seemingly impossible.


    Possible ~ Probable

    Seeming impossible (to Floyd)!

    But yet it happened.





    Now would Lord Sananda please send me a temporal kitchen sink!  

    I'm tired of doing dishes on my knees during the remodel!


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    Sanicle
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    Post  Sanicle on Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:27 am

    Thanks for posting the Phoenix Lights video Brook. The way the doctor described the lights makes me believe that what my daughter and I saw a few years back around midnight could be the same vehicles. We only saw two of them but they were a soft amber light, flying quite low, relatively slowly, and silent. Sounds like this type is quite common, although far different to the metallic round ones that are so often seen. The latter I could believe might be made here, but it's far harder to believe the amber lights would be. But who knows? I may be wrong. Hopefully we do find out one day soon.

    Oh, and I do feel for you having to wash the dishes in the bath haha. I do LOVE your new funnies. Razz Please keep them coming. They make my day. Flowers 
    mudra
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    Post  mudra on Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:32 pm

    Sanicle wrote:
    Please remember to double-check with your own inner feelings to be 100% sure that every creed they give you to follow, that you are augmenting with your own beliefs, is in harmony with your own heart and sense of rightness.  

    You are denigrating your own Soul's light........AND ability to teach you what's right for YOU.......... if you give your belief to anything or anyone based on what they've told you to believe without questioning it within, regardless of who they are and what others would have you believe, and whether the main body of their teaching seems to ring true to you.

    Ultimately, when we're done with this life, we'll need to answer only for what we've done with our life, the beliefs we've acted on and created from.  I doubt that saying, "Oh, if I made a mistake, it's his/her fault, because they told me what to believe."
    Your heart is the master. Your heart is the measure of all things.
    I could'nt resist to add this for you :

    Messengers of Deception 1458465_597492786971106_505098773_n

     Hugs 

    Love for You
    mudra
    Sanicle
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    Post  Sanicle on Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:16 pm

    Ah Mudra.......that's one of the sweetest images I've ever seen.

    Thank you
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    orthodoxymoron
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    Post  orthodoxymoron on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:09 am

    I'm liking the concept of studying the recent history of prophecy, the supernatural, conspiracy-theories, etc, etc, etc. If things are too current -- there's not enough time and perspective to make accurate determinations. If too much time has passed -- then it is much more difficult to obtain reliable information, records, materials, etc, etc, etc. Perhaps 5 to 10 years in the past is an ideal window of opportunity. Anyway, somewhat unrelatedly, you might find this interesting. I'm reading the book presently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDdvBCwF9qE


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    Floyd
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    Post  Floyd on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:30 am

    If ufos were real we would have all seen one by now.
    Not just a few reports here and there.
    Of course there will allways be 'military reports' lol.

    The fact remains alien religious prophecies are farcical.
    I can see why some investing their hopes in gods from outer space do not wish to put a specific date on their arrival as they do not wish to look as ridiculous as those who have epically failed before them.

    In the final analysis there is no meat in the alien religions. They are utterly meaningless and have no value for humanity. That is why few take alien religions seriously. They are literaly quite pointless.
    They offer nothing but empty predictions as per the messages of possessed contactees and channelers.

    When are they coming? The same day christ returns etc.

    Soon though my dear earth brothers and sisters. Soon. Very soon. Very very very soon
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    Post  Sanicle on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:08 am

    Floyd why do you have to keep harping on about alien religions on this site (not just this thread)?  Sure, there are some out there, but many of us believe ETs exist without automatically joining some religious cult as a result.  It's just plain paranoid and illogical to tar everyone with the same brush that way, as though one automatically follows the other.

    And then there's this:
    If ufos were real we would have all seen one by now.
    Not just a few reports here and there.
    So I guess that means that the word of quite a few of us on this forum who've stated they've seen UFOs or had experience counts for nothing with you?  True? scratch Or is it just that you're hoping to start up another verbal stoush to have a bit of fun?
    Brook
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    Post  Brook on Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:02 am

    Floyd why do you have to keep harping on about alien religions on this site (not just this thread)?


    My opinion for what it's worth:

    Floyd is obsessed with alien cults.  

    Case in point (among many here):

    http://www.themistsofavalon.net/t6947-ufo-alien-cults

    As a result he avoids the startling facts.

    Mr Vallee helped put this report together and it has NOTHING to do with Alien Cults.


    If ufos were real we would have all seen one by now.
    Not just a few reports here and there.
    Of course there will allways be 'military reports' lol.



    This is but one report of sitings from all over the world...not simply the US.  Not simply military either. Radar reports commercial and private pilots alike.

    http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/WeinsteinPilotCatalog.pdf

    If you were to consult Floyd he'd tell you they are not real.

    Floyd's denial and obsession is so pervase it makes him completely avoid the topic of the Phoenix Lights reported by a whole city of average people who sited the event.  If he does not address the topic it does not exist and he continues to harp on the Alien Cults rather than the topic discussed in the post I presented.  He also avoids what Mr Vallee reports and writes regarding Interdimensional aspects of the phenomenon.

    In other words, he googles the topic of alien cults and came up with Mr. Vallee's Messengers of Deception with out checking his source.  Because Mr Vallee certainly does believe they are real.

    Let's face it Mr Vallee wrote this book based on his own "intense siting".

    I think Floyd's denial is blinding him from the reported facts so much so that he started a thread here regarding a book written by Mr Vallee with out checking the fact that Mr. Vallee is
    highly in-tuned to the interdimensionl aspect of the phenomenon which he describes in some detail in his book Dimensions.

    An Annotation of the book Dimensions:


    From Ezekiel's fiery wheel to current government cover-ups, UFOs have always been with us. Vallee explores his theory that these beings are not extraterrestrial but creatures of earth--inhabitants of a dimension shockingly different from our own!


    From the Publisher
    Throughout the modern UFO era, thousands of honest scientists and informed laymen have seen through the official denials, the suppressions, and the whitewash — and realized that, indeed, we are not alone. To them, author Jacques Vallee, the world's most renowned UFO expert, presents a tantalizing question. What if — just if — these alien visitors are Not from other planets? What if they have always been among us?

    What if we can finally prove the case to which so much evidence points: That they have lived on earth for centuries, perhaps, from the beginning of time. That they may inhabit another dimension, a dimension so startlingly different from our own that our consciousness lurches to experience it religiously.

    At once exhilarating and persuasive, Vallee's brilliant insights include a metaphysical odyssey through some of the most mystifying incidents in religious and mythological lore.

    The miraculous visions of the Lady of Fatima in 1917.
    The "cloudships" said to have visited medieval France.
    The ancient Tzeltal Indians of Mexico kidnapped by flying half humans.

    With his unparalleled knowledge of thousands of close encounters. Vallee — the UFO authority celebrated in Steven Spielberg's Close Encounters of the Third Kind — constructs an eye-opening, yet ultimately irresistible theory: one that reveals the shocking reality of the ever-present, ever-powerful interdimensional aliens of Earth... and humanity's persistent inability to understand them.


    http://www.ufoevidence.org/books/book100.htm

    Here is a PDF of the book:

    http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/ff6fc6dba869617d.pdf


    Floyd are you Pink?  




    So you see, Floyd uses Mr Vallee in this thread to present the Alien Cults yet denies the existence thereof by the same man and author of the book Dimensions where he goes into detail of a most extraordinary relation to one and the same.

    Floyd at all costs avoids the fact that regular people report these events ( most pronounced in the Phoenix lights) who are no where near understanding or affiliated to alien cults and he writes them off.  So his obsession does not allow him to review or accept the data.

    Fact is you can present the facts to him and he will still deny the existence of Aliens (due to his obsession with cults) and writes them off as non existent even though there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.



    Now beam me up will ya!

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