Calling All Carnivores

I’ve been looking at the bigger picture re the integration of flesh, of all types, purely from an analytical perspective beyond the religious and emotional bind people have to this subject, and wonder what others think of this picture I’m presenting here.

It’s said we are what we eat, and we are eating the cells of other lifeforms of all types when we do.  It’s also said that cells have memory of what that lifeform has experienced and includes DNA.  So we must be taking that in with each mouthful.  So what does that do to our beings at a cell and energetic level?
Now here are a few statements I’d like to add to this pattern that go beyond what’s been discussed thus far that, to my mind, may be part of the larger picture and worth considering.

It’s known that some tribes in the past were cannibalistic and that they ate the bodies, or parts, of those they’d fought believing that they were taking in the courage of those enemies, which would make them stronger in turn.  There’s also a tribe (and there may be more), in New Guinea I think, who to this day eat the bodies of their family/tribal members when they die, believing that in doing so they then take on the memories of that person which helps to keep the history of the whole tribe alive amongst them. Why would they continue this practice for centuries unless they had some reason to believe it is so?

Then there are organ transplants, which is another form of taking in the cells of another being, including their cell memories.  How this specifically fits in is that it’s been well recorded that many of the organ recipients gain memories that belonged to the donors, right down to recognizing the donor’s family members, being able to play instruments the donor played, enjoying the food and lifestyle the donor did when they hadn’t previously, etc.  Does that back up in some way what those tribes believed occurred when they ate the bodies of other humans?

So I’m wondering how what we are choosing to take in is affecting our cell memories and DNA.  Does only eating plants make us more plant-like in nature?  Does eating meat give us more of the nature of the birds and animals it came from?  If that occurs I wonder how that affects us at a soul level of being  and experientially.  Does it help us to be more at one with Nature while we are experiencing life on this planet along with them?  Does diversity in our diet help or hinder?

It’s also said that, in reality, we are all One from the same Source, sharing thoughts, emotions and spiritual connections at subtle levels of being through the planetary group consciousness as a whole.  And obviously, all lifeforms share physical energy through ingesting the ‘flesh’, whether animal or vegetable, also, which could merely be seen as a physical representation, or extension, of what’s already happening at subtler levels.
 
Any ideas anyone?    

I don't see the point in threads like this.
People that eat meat are happy to do so while people that don't get themselves upset when someone says they enjoy a nice bacon sandwich with a drop of tomato sauce, some fresh black pepper and a pinch of sea salt

Basically veggies you're wasting your time and energy trying to convert people.

For the record I eat chickens and fish. I consider these creatures as not being very bright and therefore not really realising what's going on as they die.
I know they are full of chemicals and alsorts of bad stuff but they taste good.
If there was a good substitute to chickens and fish then I would take it but I've tried quorn and other assorted veggie muck and it just doesn't do it for me.
I even tried making my specialty chicken curry with substitutes but it just doesn't taste as good

When I will be eating anything that doesn't run away fast enough

Swanny wrote:I don't see the point in threads like this.
People that eat meat are happy to do so while people that don't get themselves upset when someone says they enjoy a nice bacon sandwich with a drop of tomato sauce, some fresh black pepper and a pinch of sea salt

Basically veggies you're wasting your time and energy trying to convert people.

For the record I eat chickens and fish. I consider these creatures as not being very bright and therefore not really realising what's going on as they die.
I know they are full of chemicals and alsorts of bad stuff but they taste good.
If there was a good substitute to chickens and fish then I would take it but I've tried quorn and other assorted veggie muck and it just doesn't do it for me.
I even tried making my specialty chicken curry with substitutes but it just doesn't taste as good

When    I will be eating anything that doesn't run away fast enough  

Your right. Its absolutely pointless. But when your living a pointless life, chowing down on boring veggie food and denying your body what it really wants , it all turns in to a huge navel gazing exercise.

Sure there are veggies who just dont make a big deal out of it and that I can cope with . But when you get the big long boring lecture with all the New age guff about evolving to a higher plane by abstaining I just want to fire up the barbie and slap the biggest bloodiest steak I can find on it and crack a pack .

Next time my cat catches a cute fluffy bunny wunny I am going to post a picture of it hanging from my Killer Pet's maw !
Get real people .

The SH has already hit the Fan anyway so it wont be long till that barge rat looks real tasty .

If you want to know how such a small band of communists gained control of Russia ,the answer is simple. They withheld so much food from people that they were starved in to submission . Hunger will drive people to despair quicker than you can say Chicken soup. Or Coq au Vin . Or Veggie Burger.

Oh yea I forgot to add this creature to my menu list

Here cute tasty looking pussy cat

Maybe I'm a very old soul and I've been to the higher planes, found them boring so now I'm just wandering around

Swanny wrote:Oh yea I forgot to add this creature to my menu list

Here cute tasty looking pussy cat

Maybe I'm a very old soul and I've been to the higher planes, found them boring so now I'm just wandering around

Specify the cat before you put it on the menu Swanny , because size does matter and the hunter often becomes the hunted . Especially when chasing the game from a wheelchair. UNLESS of course your wheelchair is a Cheshire cat and punts for Cambridge.

If on the other hand it tastes like chicken and looks like chicken then somebody finally came up with a half decent tofu. Much easier on the dentures .

Its a funny old world and you gotta laugh Guv .

No matter what the menu , and who's credit card flashes.
Even the waiter knows your eventually dust and ashes.

Still its always worth asking for a doggie bag. For the cat of course .

Food for thought.

Heavy water is a by product of ammonia production. Ammonia used for Artificial fertilizer and explosives. A Scandinavian invented TNT .

The reason agriculture is driven by Ammonia from petro Chem is so that they can provide heavy water for nuclear reactors and warheads.
Its a closed loop of the war machine.

That's why corporate agriculture is destroying the planet. Its dysfunctional symbiosis .

In the end ,this madness is burning the soil ,the air and everything else . So its far wiser to let animals fertilize the soil with their guano than try to feed the world with closed loop vegan gardens that assume you can just plant stuff together and it will fertilize itself ! No,its not that simple .You need diversity to maintain diversity .

In Australia ,Rabbits have to be controlled or they would eat everything and lay waste to huge areas of productive land. But if you want a lap full of fluffy wuffy then maybe its time to grab that bunny by the ears and put him in the pot before he eats out your garden plot.

Seriously.

none

Good point about the rabbits. If you're going to kill them you might as well use the dead ones to fed yourself.
My mates Mum makes a lovely rabbit pie

Rats are vermin and spread disease

Swanny wrote:Good point about the rabbits. If you're going to kill them you might as well use the dead ones to fed yourself.
My mates Mum makes a lovely rabbit pie

Rats are vermin and spread disease

Rats have their place as long as they don't get out of hand . Same as any other creature . Humans are out of hand at the moment ,way out of hand.
A plague upon your houses !

Rabbit tastes a lot like Chicken. Tofu still tastes like congealed toothpaste though . I hate Soy unless its fermented soy sauce .

During the depression in Australia ,Rabbits were what kept many people alive . So you know ,I like rabbits . Great food source in hard times.

Rabbit pie . Yum. Nothing beats the taste of wild game . So much tastier . You know whats really good to eat in NZ ? Possum . Amazing flavor because they eat only the highest quality wild plants and leaves . Fresh young shoots full of vitality .

But dont worry , They are an invasive non native Plague in NZ . Like Goats, Pigs and Deer . Its a massive job keeping the numbers in check . When the SHTF in NZ there will be plenty to hunt and eat . No worries.

Time was when we were all wild . Wild and free. Now though all the land is fenced in like the humans.

Less intelligent humans don't have developed consciousness.
It is like mosquito hurts a human, sucks blood because it does not have intelligence to understand/realize what's right
and what is wrong.
Human who have developed consciousness don't harm other living beings.
If human act like animal they unfortunately don't have developed consciousness yet.
Such mentality hurts others without understanding.

devakas wrote:
Less intelligent humans don't have developed consciousness.
It is like mosquito hurts a human, sucks blood because it does not have intelligence to understand/realize what's right
and what is wrong.
Human who have developed consciousness don't harm other living beings.
If human act like animal they unfortunately don't have developed consciousness yet.
Such mentality hurts others without understanding.

Less Intelligent ?

Developed Consciousness ? Are you telling me YOU know better than Mother earth ? The whole of nature ?

That's not intelligence ,that's arrogance . Is death harming living beings ?
Is it immortality you want ? If nature did it your way the planet would die and you with it. You cant have it both ways.

You condemn those who eat meat , but not plant flesh right ? Okay ,plants are living conscious beings . Yes they are . They breath , they reproduce ,they die, just like you and me . But you think your better than them ? More conscious ?
I don't think so.

How often do plants Kill ? They do kill you know. How often do people get struck by lightning and die ? It happens. Must be god doing some 'Karma' on someone. Or maybe its a Volcano/tsunami wiping out thousands of women and children in one fell swoop.

You admit death happens yet admonish nature for allowing it occur ! Why do you fear Death if you are so sure of your spiritual evolution ? Why does death threaten you ? Especially if you believe in reincarnation .

Humans more conscious . Would that it were true. Behind every self righteous Preacher there is usually a corrupt power hungry fiend .
Never have I said I wish to harm or hurt any living creature willfully and consciously but sadly, realistically, our bodies must be fed by living matter of some kind in order for the cycles of life to continue. If you have a problem with that ,take it to whichever god/s you worship. Don't expect a quick reply though.

When Buddha achieved enlightenment the first thing he did was EAT . He realized that punishing the body,starving it, was not the way .
Where every other living species eats only what it needs to live , HUMANS only, take more than required .They steal from each other ,starve each other , enslave each other , and you call it 'greater consciousness' ?
You have to be kidding me.

For those who say from the heart they don't like to eat meat I say nobody is denying you that choice as long as you can accept that others need to. You are not qualified to judge them and you presume to much .

Only psychopaths enjoy killing . If you saw a child starving in your neighborhood and it asked for meat ,would you deny that child ? Compassion does not carry those kinds of condition . Starving children WILL eat just about anything and who are we to judge them for that ?

You make it sound like meat eaters are voracious killers . Yes, factory farming and slaughter houses are horrific because they are inhumane ,I agree with you there . Death and Killing does hurt . Love can hurt , hate can hurt, kindness can kill .

But in the face of eternity and our Immortal souls, its not the end, so I refuse to dwell on what cannot be changed and work on what can be improved.
When Buddha was close to death he left his body as anyone who has been there long enough will testify . I have 'died' and come back many times now.
So have we all . Its okay . Anyone who has died (NDE) will tell you when they were revived that they overcame their fear of death and found peace.
They realized that their true essence is not physical .

No matter what form life takes , its conscious and in a state of enlightenment you realize to your amazement that we really are all one and the same thing. In the end, though I have said a whole bunch here the only point I am trying to make is this. Fear of death and hate is the absence of love .
Attachment leads to suffering . We are attached to the illusions of flesh . It took me a long time to experience that truth but I dont think that makes me better than anyone else . I just feel sad to watch others suffer . Love alleviates and heals suffering but only if its accepted .

Many ,many years ago now I ended a relationship because I knew it would lead to her suffering way to much. So I had to walk away. She has never forgiven me for that though and still harbors hate towards me. Who was right ? Me for avoiding her being rejected by her entire family or her for surrendering to hate and marrying a man she did not love ?
That's the tragic part . To often we punish when we should forgive .We hate because we did not get the love on our terms.

In another instance later I had the same issue arise BUT in this case my beautiful GF was able to forgive me and went on to find lasting happiness with a really great guy . Its choice. Love or hate. I can still talk to her and she is happy and at peace . That's wonderful.

Food is energy. Life takes energy to sustain . No sunlight ,no plant growth , No water , no life at all . It an amazing dream this experience called physical Life but its finite . Energy is not .Nor is consciousness. That's what peace is , the knowledge of that .

I look forward to dying now . Strange to reach that place but I know whats on the other side and I am growing impatient . The only thing that keeps me here is not money or possessions. Just the two people I love the most .My family. That's it. It took a lifetime to get to know the pleasure of living just in the moment but without the journey the end would not mean anything.

The angels don't think of themselves as gods , they just know love is the answer and the rest is just words really.

blue roller wrote:

devakas wrote:
Less intelligent humans don't have developed consciousness.
It is like mosquito hurts a human, sucks blood because it does not have intelligence to understand/realize what's right
and what is wrong.
Human who have developed consciousness don't harm other living beings.
If human act like animal they unfortunately don't have developed consciousness yet.
Such mentality hurts others without understanding.

Less Intelligent ?

Developed Consciousness ? Are you telling me YOU know better than Mother earth ? The whole of nature ?

That's not intelligence ,that's arrogance . Is death harming living beings  ?
Is it immortality you want ? If nature did it your way the planet would die and you with it. You cant have it both ways.

You condemn those who eat meat , but not plant flesh right ? Okay ,plants are living conscious beings . Yes they are . They breath , they reproduce ,they die, just like you and me . But you think your better than them ? More conscious ?
I don't think so.

How often do plants Kill ? They do kill you know. How often do people get struck by lightning and die ? It happens. Must be god doing some 'Karma' on someone. Or maybe its a Volcano/tsunami wiping out thousands of women and children in one fell swoop.

You admit death happens yet admonish nature for allowing it occur ! Why do you fear Death if you are so sure of your spiritual evolution ? Why does death threaten you ? Especially if you believe in reincarnation .

Humans more conscious . Would that it were true. Behind every self righteous Preacher there is usually a corrupt power hungry fiend .
Never have I said I wish to harm or hurt any living creature willfully and consciously but sadly, realistically, our bodies must be fed by living matter of some kind in order for the cycles of life to continue. If you have a problem with that ,take it to whichever god/s you worship. Don't expect a quick reply though.

When Buddha achieved enlightenment the first thing he did was EAT . He realized that punishing the body,starving it, was not the way .
Where every other living species eats only what it needs to live , HUMANS only, take more than required .They steal from each other ,starve each other , enslave each other , and you call it 'greater consciousness' ?
You have to be kidding me.

For those who say from the heart they don't like to eat meat I say nobody is denying you that choice as long as you can accept that others need to. You are not qualified to judge them and you presume to much .

Only psychopaths enjoy killing . If you saw a child starving in your neighborhood and it asked for meat ,would you deny that child ? Compassion does not carry those kinds of condition . Starving children WILL eat just about anything and who are we to judge them for that ?

You make it sound like meat eaters are voracious killers . Yes, factory farming and slaughter houses are horrific because they are inhumane ,I agree with you there . Death and Killing does hurt . Love can hurt , hate can hurt, kindness can kill .

But in the face of eternity and our Immortal souls, its not the end, so I refuse to dwell on what cannot be changed and work on what can be improved.
When Buddha was close to death he left his body as anyone who has been there long enough will testify . I have 'died' and come back many times now.
So have we all . Its okay . Anyone who has died (NDE) will tell you when they were revived that they overcame their fear of death and found peace.
They realized that their true essence is not physical .

No matter what form life takes , its conscious and in a state of enlightenment you realize to your amazement that we really are all one and the same thing. In the end, though I have said a whole bunch here the only point I am trying to make is this. Fear of death and hate is the absence of love .
Attachment leads to suffering . We are attached to the illusions of flesh . It took me a long time to experience that truth but I dont think that makes me better than anyone else . I just feel sad to watch others suffer . Love alleviates and heals suffering but only if its accepted .

Many ,many years ago now I ended a relationship because I knew it would lead to her suffering way to much. So I had to walk away. She has never forgiven me for that though and still harbors hate towards me. Who was right ? Me for avoiding her being rejected by her entire family or her for surrendering to hate and marrying a man she did not love ?
That's the tragic part . To often we punish when we should forgive .We hate because we did not get the love on our terms.

In another instance later I had the same issue arise BUT in this case my beautiful GF was able to forgive me and went on to find lasting happiness with a really great guy . Its choice. Love or hate. I can still talk to her and she is happy and at peace . That's wonderful.

Food is energy. Life takes energy to sustain . No sunlight ,no plant growth , No water , no life at all . It an amazing dream this experience called physical Life but its finite . Energy is not .Nor is consciousness. That's what peace is , the knowledge of that .

I look forward to dying now . Strange to reach that place but I know whats on the other side and I am growing impatient . The only thing that keeps me here is not money or possessions. Just the two people I love the most .My family. That's it. It took a lifetime to get to know the pleasure of living just in the moment but without the journey the end would not mean anything.

The angels don't think of themselves as gods , they just know love is the answer and the rest is just words really.

This nature is all fecked up because this matrix is ruled by Saturn hence so much cruelty around us. He loves blood sacrifices.

Swanny wrote:I don't see the point in threads like this.
People that eat meat are happy to do so while people that don't get themselves upset when someone says they enjoy a nice bacon sandwich with a drop of tomato sauce, some fresh black pepper and a pinch of sea salt

Basically veggies you're wasting your time and energy trying to convert people.

For the record I eat chickens and fish. I consider these creatures as not being very bright and therefore not really realising what's going on as they die.
I know they are full of chemicals and alsorts of bad stuff but they taste good.
If there was a good substitute to chickens and fish then I would take it but I've tried quorn and other assorted veggie muck and it just doesn't do it for me.
I even tried making my specialty chicken curry with substitutes but it just doesn't taste as good

When    I will be eating anything that doesn't run away fast enough  

Swanny, you had better learn to run fast too because when TSHTF someone else might want to hunt you ...

Sorry Burgundia , but that has got to be the lamest excuse I have heard yet . Are you seriously telling me your cat is possessed by Satan ?
Are you telling me that every carnivore has canines because the devil put them there ?
Do you need to exorcise your cat before feeding time ? maybe put some garlic around his neck to ward off the evil eye.
No , Im sorry . You can apply Satan to human behavior to a degree maybe , but not Nature .
I dont see Cats with machine guns cutting down mice in a dark alley wearing Gucci suits and dark sunglasses.

"I'm gonna make you an offer you cant refuse Mickey"

So let me get this straight .Cows are of the one true god and anything that eats meat is of the devil because of a ringed planet in the outer solar system ?

Is that the best answer you can give ? I mean even the catholic church is not that desperate.

So lets put the shoe on the other foot . Do plants think that plant eaters are evil and of the devil ? Is there a plant devil out there tempting plants to consume flesh ? Must be Uranus .

Vegans say as an excuse that they always bless their food before they eat it . But they still eat it. Last rights lettuce ! Any last requests before I eat you ?
"I dont want to be chewed by a human covered in salad dressing even if it is extra virgin "
To late green freak , your goin' down and your tomato buddies too.

What about all those plant eating veggie bugs with their razor sharp teeth , like caterpillars and leaf eating ants ? Are they plant Satan's little helpers ?

I mean how far down the Rabbit hole of implausible excuses do we have to go ?

I love my Tree's and my plants . I love the herb tree's too. But when I take a snip of rosemary for dinner it does not die of fright . Rosemary grows thicker and stronger when you prune it and trim it.

My fruit tree's know they are on to a good deal. I pamper them rotten with mulch and seaweed and water them when its dry. Talk about spoiled rotten.

You may argue its not intentional but it is . Your eating . Nothing unintentional about it at all . You eat and you take life . Billions of microscopic bugs and bacteria dissolve in your stomach acid along with the Greens and nuts and fruit. Its hell down there !

So really what you are saying is that we are all Satan's children along with all of nature and need to be punished eternally ? Well worry no more , we are being punished . Does that make you feel better knowing we suffer ? because I don't.

No , I don't buy that. Its a choice between love and hate ,that's all. Not Cow Satan's herbivorous molars grinding the innocent blades of grass for all eternity and stewing them pitilessly in not one stomach but two . Damn you Cow Satan and all your lumbering herd of Veggie biters ! Have you no pity ?

Talk about surreal. You know why I keep coming back to this thread ? Because I am just gob smacked at the absurdity of it . Its like a script out of Monty Python .

An Amazing act of grace occurs for any creature in a body when it faces death . Its called shock and I know because I have been in a near fatal accident . This is what happens. For maybe a minute at the most I was in extreme pain yes , at which point a voice inside me said the pain will be gone in a moment and it did even though I had broken bones and was covered in road rash .

Shock is natures pain killer and it kicks in so you experience no pain . In fact I felt real joy and when the ambulance turned up I was laughing and joking .
Now at this point of course shock can and does kill because you are facing the choice to live or die and the body is waiting for you to decide.

By the time I got to the hospital the Doctor asked if I was in pain and I was fine , just a slight numbness . I made a conscious choice to live because at that point I realized for the first time that my Wife really REALLY loved me . I could not leave her. Love stopped me dying that day and I made a remarkable recovery. I should have died and indeed I had a premonition the week before that I would. A part of me wanted to because I did not think I could heal my wife's deep wounds . I was to deeply wounded by her wounds and felt only despair.

That day forced us both to a realization . Is that bad ? No , I don't think so . Strangely though , if it was not for that NDE I would not have had the massive breakthrough. We admitted to ourselves and each other that we had a reason to live . Each other.
A little later My wife had a ridiculous NDE car accident and saw someone in front of her fly out of her soft top car and land in a field narrowly missing her and certain head on collision !

Only in facing death did my life shift and the OBE's begin . The fantastic lucid dreams and the ET contact .

So for those of you that think that death ,pain and suffering should be avoided at all cost I would say yes, you can make that choice , but your life will be Dull,dull,dull. The devil will wrap you in cotton wool and give you anything to keep you asleep. He is compliance and political correctness . He is the safe boring partner who rides the TV remote . The Wife who obsseses about every ones opinions and refuses to have fun anymore.

Nature, if you observe it closely rides by the seat of its pants . Birds will play dare /chicken by flying perilously close to whizzing cars . They will do crazy stuff for the shear hell of it .

I have seen older chickens surrender to a fox instead of run for their life . They are ready to die so they crouch down and its over in a split second . Nature only appears cruel because most humans are so detached from life .

Teenage Boys do suicidal things because they instinctively know its what makes them grow . You can run from fear , but you cant hide . Face it and you grow stronger . All life is a trial run for the next . Its okay to let go. Its okay if you loose this round early .Only the good die young .So true.

Death is scary but imprisonment far worse . My biggest dread is loss of freedom. Always has been. Prison films make me angry as hell. Visiting a convict jail in Australia just is the most painful thing I have ever experienced . I cant bear to see people trapped. It hurts . To me ,death is the welcome exit if freedom is lost.

devakas wrote:
Less intelligent humans don't have developed consciousness.
It is like mosquito hurts a human, sucks blood because it does not have intelligence to understand/realize what's right
and what is wrong.
Human who have developed consciousness don't harm other living beings.
If human act like animal they unfortunately don't have developed consciousness yet.
Such mentality hurts others without understanding.

That's quite a funny statement to make.
A mosquito isn't doing anything wrong. Do you think if it was educated that it would stop sucking blood?

You can't possibly know how developed another soul is. You don't know what lessons it's learning in its present life.
Plus you are thinking along a linear time line.
Maybe you're the one not understanding?
I wonder what lesson you came here to learn this time

blue roller wrote:Sorry Burgundia , but that has got to be the lamest excuse I have heard yet . Are you seriously telling me your cat is possessed by Satan ?
Are you telling me that every carnivore has canines because the devil put them there ?
Do you need to exorcise your cat before feeding time ? maybe put some garlic around his neck to ward off the evil eye.
No , Im sorry . You can apply Satan to human behavior to a degree maybe , but not Nature .
I dont see Cats with machine guns cutting down mice in a dark alley wearing Gucci suits and dark sunglasses.

"I'm gonna make you an offer you cant refuse Mickey"

So let me get this straight .Cows are of the one true god and anything that eats meat is of the devil because of a ringed planet in the outer solar system ?

Is that the best answer you can give ? I mean even the catholic church is not that desperate.

So lets put the shoe on the other foot . Do plants think that plant eaters are evil and of the devil ? Is there a plant devil out there tempting plants to consume flesh ? Must be Uranus .

Vegans say as an excuse that they always bless their food before they eat it . But they still eat it. Last rights lettuce ! Any last requests before I eat you ?
"I dont want to be chewed by a human covered in salad dressing even if it is extra virgin "
To late green freak , your goin' down and your tomato buddies too.

What about all those plant eating veggie bugs with their razor sharp teeth , like caterpillars and leaf eating ants ? Are they plant Satan's little helpers ?

I mean how far down the Rabbit hole of implausible excuses do we have to go ?

I love my Tree's and my plants . I love the herb tree's too. But when I take a snip of rosemary for dinner it does not die of fright . Rosemary grows thicker and stronger when you prune it and trim it.

My fruit tree's know they are on to a good deal. I pamper them rotten with mulch and seaweed and water them when its dry. Talk about spoiled rotten.

You may argue its not intentional but it is . Your eating . Nothing unintentional about it at all . You eat and you take life . Billions of microscopic bugs and bacteria dissolve in your stomach acid along with the Greens and nuts and fruit. Its hell down there !

So really what you are saying is that we are all Satan's children along with all of nature and need to be punished eternally ? Well worry no more , we are being punished . Does that make you feel better knowing we suffer ? because I don't.

No , I don't buy that. Its a choice between love and hate ,that's all. Not Cow Satan's herbivorous molars grinding the innocent blades of grass for all eternity and stewing them pitilessly in not one stomach but two . Damn you Cow Satan and all your lumbering herd of Veggie biters ! Have you no pity ?

Talk about surreal. You know why I keep coming back to this thread ? Because I am just gob smacked at the absurdity of it . Its like a script out of Monty Python .

An Amazing act of grace occurs for any creature in a body when it faces death . Its called shock and I know because I have been in a near fatal accident . This is what happens. For maybe a minute at the most I was in extreme pain yes , at which point a voice inside me said the pain will be gone in a moment and it did even though I had broken bones and was covered in road rash .

Shock is natures pain killer and it kicks in so you experience no pain . In fact I felt real joy and when the ambulance turned up I was laughing and joking .
Now at this point of course shock can and does kill because you are facing the choice to live or die and the body is waiting for you to decide.

By the time I got to the hospital the Doctor asked if I was in pain and I was fine , just a slight numbness . I made a conscious choice to live because at that point I realized for the first time that my Wife really REALLY loved me . I could not leave her. Love stopped me dying that day and I made a remarkable recovery. I should have died and indeed I had a premonition the week before that I would. A part of me wanted to because I did not think I could heal my wife's deep wounds . I was to deeply wounded by her wounds and felt only despair.

That day forced us both to a realization . Is that bad ? No , I don't think so . Strangely though , if it was not for that NDE I would not have had the massive breakthrough. We admitted to ourselves and each other that we had a reason to live . Each other.
A little later My wife had a ridiculous NDE car accident and saw someone in front of her fly out of her soft top car and land in a field narrowly missing her and certain head on collision !

Only in facing death did my life shift and the OBE's begin . The fantastic lucid dreams and the ET contact .

So for those of you that think that death ,pain and suffering should be avoided at all cost I would say yes, you can make that choice , but your life will be Dull,dull,dull. The devil will wrap you in cotton wool and give you anything to keep you asleep. He is compliance and political correctness . He is the safe boring partner who rides the TV remote . The Wife who obsseses about every ones opinions and refuses to have fun anymore.

Nature, if you observe it closely  rides by the seat of its pants . Birds will play dare /chicken by flying perilously close to whizzing cars . They will do crazy stuff for the shear hell of it .

I have seen older chickens surrender to a fox instead of run for their life . They are ready to die so they crouch down and its over in a split second . Nature only appears cruel because most humans are so detached from life .

Teenage Boys do suicidal things because they instinctively know its what makes them grow . You can run from fear , but you cant hide . Face it and you grow stronger . All life is a trial run for the next . Its okay to let go. Its okay if you loose this round early .Only the good die young .So true.

Death is scary but imprisonment far worse . My biggest dread is loss of freedom. Always has been. Prison films make me angry as hell. Visiting a convict jail in Australia just is the most painful thing I have ever experienced . I cant bear to see people trapped. It hurts . To me ,death is the welcome exit if freedom is lost.

Such a long tyrade..but you do not get it and most probably never will. And I am not going to waste my time trying to explain things to you. it goes too deep.

burgundia wrote:

Swanny, you had better learn to run fast too because when TSHTF someone else might want to hunt you ...

We're all on somethings menu

I think we are on Burgundia's Menu Swanny . Better change my undies and freshen up. Do you think he would prefer the red lipstick or the coral Pink?
I'm thinking something casual but not to slutty , maybe a leopard print handbag with the gold rimmed Gucci sunglasses. If your gonna get eaten by words , may as well go down with a fake ID . I do love giving people surprises.

So you want me to keep it brief Burger ? Okay.

Love is trust. Hate is Betrayal. Love gives , Hate steals . Hate conquers and enslaves. Love Free's the soul from the illusion of flesh.

Love Lives and speaks from experience , not second hand, recycled, fear based Dogma. That's the difference between you and me. I bare my soul, you put it in a box called flesh.

I speak of what I know , you speak from Saturn's rings ...or is it Uranus? Whatever.
If your so deep, how come your replies are so shallow ?

Sanicle wrote:I’ve been looking at the bigger picture re the integration of flesh, of all types, purely from an analytical perspective beyond the religious and emotional bind people have to this subject, and wonder what others think of this picture I’m presenting here.

It’s said we are what we eat, and we are eating the cells of other lifeforms of all types when we do.  It’s also said that cells have memory of what that lifeform has experienced and includes DNA.  So we must be taking that in with each mouthful.  So what does that do to our beings at a cell and energetic level?
Now here are a few statements I’d like to add to this pattern that go beyond what’s been discussed thus far that, to my mind, may be part of the larger picture and worth considering.

It’s known that some tribes in the past were cannibalistic and that they ate the bodies, or parts, of those they’d fought believing that they were taking in the courage of those enemies, which would make them stronger in turn.  There’s also a tribe (and there may be more), in New Guinea I think, who to this day eat the bodies of their family/tribal members when they die, believing that in doing so they then take on the memories of that person which helps to keep the history of the whole tribe alive amongst them.  Why would they continue this practice for centuries unless they had some reason to believe it is so?

Then there are organ transplants, which is another form of taking in the cells of another being, including their cell memories.  How this specifically fits in is that it’s been well recorded that many of the organ recipients gain memories that belonged to the donors, right down to recognizing the donor’s family members, being able to play instruments the donor played, enjoying the food and lifestyle the donor did when they hadn’t previously, etc.  Does that back up in some way what those tribes believed occurred when they ate the bodies of other humans?

So I’m wondering how what we are choosing to take in is affecting our cell memories and DNA.  Does only eating plants make us more plant-like in nature?  Does eating meat give us more of the nature of the birds and animals it came from?  If that occurs I wonder how that affects us at a soul level of being  and experientially.  Does it help us to be more at one with Nature while we are experiencing life on this planet along with them?  Does diversity in our diet help or hinder?

It’s also said that, in reality, we are all One from the same Source, sharing thoughts, emotions and spiritual connections at subtle levels of being through the planetary group consciousness as a whole.  And obviously, all lifeforms share physical energy through ingesting the ‘flesh’, whether animal or vegetable, also, which could merely be seen as a physical representation, or extension, of what’s already happening at subtler levels.
 
Any ideas anyone?    

I gave a lot of thought to this post because its a really thoughtful and good one .I tried to start answering it in those long posts I just did .
I suppose the point I am trying to get to is this. At a quantum level we are everything .The plant ,the soil,the insects and the grass.

Many who have experienced tribal initiations speak of becoming one with all life . At that point we consume ourselves to experience ourselves in as many ways as imaginable .

My Mentor once said to me that I must not under any circumstances artificially open the third eye using drugs or whatever . Without the Journey , the destination will not be authentic . You cannot steal the crown ,you must earn it through humility.
He also said that you must experience a willingness to risk your life before you get the big message . You have to be ready for that eye opener or it will drive you insane .

I wake up in the morning and see beauty everywhere in nature. I see life that does not fear death . I see now what I could not before .But I had to die before it could happen. Nature always acts with mercy and the crossing from life to death is anesthetized . I had bones poking out of my leg yet felt no pain in that accident . I was raw flesh ground to the bone in places . But because in the moment I surrendered to the prospect of dying and did not fight it , paradoxically I was spared and reborn a different man .I really was. I chose to live this life as consciously as possible ,not just a wage slave 9 to 5 drone.

We are not our bodies .I know that . But that does not mean we cannot enjoy them and savor the experience. You cant just write about life and read about it and say 'that's the truth' because someone famous said so . Until you have experienced truth its just theory /empty words.
You learn to play an instrument (your body) by practice. Just blowing on the end will not make music.

Thank you Blueroller. I felt that if anyone responded it would be you as I’ve noticed that you give all posters respect in that you really listen to what they have to say and then put the time and effort into posting a comprehensive answer. I salute you for that and hope they do too, seeing beyond the combative tone this thread has (naturally IMO) taken given the subject matter.

I’ve also seen the compassion you have for those you care for, animal and human, and the true love you have for Nature. You had me when you said you chat to your chickens, haha. I talk to Nature too and love the responses. I’ve seen the healing it can give them also when they know they are being acknowledged and given worth in the ‘pack’. I saw it heal the next door neighbour’s cat that had come from a shelter and been abused and so was rather aggressive. Now he’s a very contented cat as his owners have learned that he’s not just demanding food when they come home and so ignored his efforts to communicate, but actually greeting them as well. Now they talk to him too and are a happy ‘pack’ now.

It has been an interesting exercise watching this thread, as you say, and I’ve come to realize a few things on the basis of my own experience, which is all I can really do, and what I believe others here are doing also. What we say, think and do depends on which stage of the journey we are focused on at the time and a horror at the animal cruelty existent in our world is a huge wake-up call on the journey, and it’s not only due to big business interests.

I used to work with a young Philippino girl who would chat to me at times about what she was cooked for dinner. This day she was happily telling me how she’d cooked what was considered a delicacy in the Philippines……eggs with live chicks in them, which they’d throw into boiling water to cook. It brought tears to my eyes immediately and I turned away from her in horror that this sweet girl could do such a thing. After she made me explain why I was so upset she admitted that she’d never even thought about it that way and was only blindly following behaviour patterns she’d learned in her community. You could her eyes widen in horror when she really thought about what she was putting that chick through and vowed never to serve them again. In other words, she was literally blinded by her conditioning, as the majority of us are until we open our eyes to what’s happening around us in the world and begin our personal journey.

Aside from religious conditioning, I see going vegan as a natural outcome of loving animals and becoming aware of the cruelty inflicted on them in our society to serve our body’s appetites, and so often a part of the spiritual journey. But I think it is, in truth, a separate issue from what many of our animal bodies need (which we only inhabit) to thrive and endure in this world, although the two issues naturally become enmeshed until you can see the separateness. When you are at the earlier stage on the journey, and especially when you become vegan, it’s hard to see beyond it when you are so emotionally involved and maybe you’re not meant to until you’re ready for the next stage of your journey. Although some do make it their life’s work if that’s what they came here to do.

I also think it’s necessary for the benefit of planetary evolution that so many are at this stage and being so vocal about it so these people can be the voice for the animals that big business is abusing so badly to serve their own ends. They are making a huge difference, thank god. Many of the people who work in those industries may be as blinded by their own conditioning as my friend at work was and need the wake-up call. Those who are in it and just don’t care will have to react to public outcry whether they like it or not. I applaud those who work for animal welfare in this way and have no wish to argue with you at all on that basis. I respect you for arguing on behalf of the animals, which to my mind is what you’re really doing here on this thread, in harmony with the part of the journey you are dedicated to following. I know when I was at that stage of the journey I couldn’t see past the welfare of the animals either and argued with anyone who didn’t see it my way.

I will say though, going from my own experience that going vegetarian can make this part of the journey that much more difficult as you become more sensitized to the (energetic) ‘loud noises’ in the environment around you and thus very self-protective. I was like a deer, or timid rabbit, always on the lookout for predatory behaviour or threats of any kind (but unaware that I’d become so at the time). Prey behaviour. It might be easy to do in an ashram environment where you are among those like you and yes it helps with meditational practices by sensitizing you to the subtler flows of energy. But out in the ‘big bad world’ where you will be constantly challenged by coarser energies (also part of the journey to overcome fear), giving your bodies some meat to ground, desensitize and strengthen it will help your consciousness to assert itself. You won’t be so bound up in dealing with all the misgivings your body's survival mechanisms are throwing at you and the consequent mental and emotional reactions to threats perceived. When your consciousness is in charge, THAT will help you most on your personal evolutionary journey.

Our bodies need BALANCE to survive the day-to-day, and on our journey. You body-mind knows what is best for its survival, so it's telling you it wants meat, listen to it. You might be able to help the animals more if you're feeling stronger in yourself and more able to confront all the nastiness tied up with animal abuse.

If what I've shared rings any bells for you, good. If it doesn't, I'm not too fussed. Each to his/her own. But I'm finished with this thread.

blue roller wrote:I think we are on Burgundia's Menu Swanny . Better change my undies and freshen up. Do you think he would prefer the red lipstick or the coral Pink?
I'm thinking something casual but not to slutty , maybe a leopard print handbag with the gold rimmed Gucci sunglasses. If your gonna get eaten by words , may as well go down with a fake ID . I do love giving people surprises.

So you want me to keep it brief Burger ? Okay.

Love is trust. Hate is Betrayal. Love gives , Hate steals . Hate conquers and enslaves. Love Free's the soul from the illusion of flesh.

Love Lives and  speaks from experience , not second hand, recycled, fear based Dogma. That's the difference between you and me. I bare my soul, you put it in a box called flesh.

I speak of what I know , you speak from Saturn's rings ...or is it Uranus? Whatever.
If your so deep, how come your replies are so shallow ?

Do you know why you are here? In real life no one wants to listen to you so at least here you can relieve yourself in a witten form. You consider yourself witty and amusing but it is just your opinion. And do not flatter yourself putting yourself next to Swanny when it comes to my menu. I adjust my replies to the person I am replying to so if you consider them shallow you know why.

PS. With regard to your undies...do not wait for the hunt, change them more frequently.

Well Sanicle , I like to engage people in depth when they have depth to give . But if a person is heavily invested in religion or Dogma or any kind of fanatical devotion that to me is an ego that needs taking down a peg. A very aussie thing as I am sure you would know.

I dont mind admitting I am conflicted on diet . All I can say is that the higher the quality of your home grown food , the less you need to supplement with meat . Organic meat is something I need but not to much . Dairy ,Organic preferably , I have to have . My bone density is way higher than average and I need to keep it well stocked up . But i take a very hands on experimental approach to diet in depth because I need the energy levels to go lucid dreaming and O of B. Had a really exceptional one a few nights ago. I lead two lives in parallel so before I go out I have to build enough reserves .
I work out hard on duty so I have to consume a lot of bio available fast conversion protein . If I dont im in trouble.

I certainly dont condone boiling live chicks in their shells and I dont condone allowing any living thing to suffer. But where they can make it work I can respect and admire Veggie diet . Its a touchy subject though.

The thing I would point out is that I have NEVER EVER seen hate in any animals eye's . Fear ,wonder ,love, humor, curiosity,devotion, and so on yes.But never hate or jealousy or greed . That to me says a lot about the human condition. So I take great exception to anyone who demonizes animals no matter what their diet . Actually ,tell a lie , my cat sometimes gets a tad jealous when I snuggle with my wife but its only a a fleeting thing.

I work very hard to build up the soil health of my trees and plants with seaweed and trace minerals. We are on volcanic clay with great top soil too so we are very fortunate . It makes a huge difference to my families health along with our free range chickens which we adore . Our cat guards them along with the wild birds. I talk to everything living in or visiting our garden . Wild birds ,echidna's , everything. They love it .

Walk in to any native bush and you see wild nature gardening. The running Lizards in our gully are a marvel to watch and they love to watch us too .

I dont Hunt because I dont need to , but I would if a had to to feed my family in a serious economic downturn . I would have no hesitation . But never for pleasure . Its easier in our western economy to source veggie but for many third world economies ,meat becomes an essential part of survival along with goat/cow milk. I think we need to respect that.

I love food .Spicy ,savory, French ,Italian, Spanish ,whatever . I use lots of fresh ginger and chilli to keep good circulation and vital organs healthy.
Garlic is great stuff. I dont care if Milk does have casa Morphine's in It . When I crave a banana shake ,which is not very often, I just do it.
Truth is we do need fat in our diet to maintain good health but it has to be balanced with plenty of fresh greens too.
We use tons of lemons from our tree next to the septic tank .I put lemon juice in anything I can think of. Its a great way to marinade meat and tenderize it . The enzymes in lemon juice break down the bad fats and the extra flavor means you need far less meat . Lemon juice is a great substitute for salt but i like using the Himalayan mountain salt . Tastes very nice.

Balanced Diet is very rare for most people. Lots of extremes. We try to steer a middle way. I go with my cravings and enjoy variety . It works for us.

Garlic works wonders for inflamed joints and tissue repair . I could talk for hours about this stuff.

burgundia wrote:

blue roller wrote:I think we are on Burgundia's Menu Swanny . Better change my undies and freshen up. Do you think he would prefer the red lipstick or the coral Pink?
I'm thinking something casual but not to slutty , maybe a leopard print handbag with the gold rimmed Gucci sunglasses. If your gonna get eaten by words , may as well go down with a fake ID . I do love giving people surprises.

So you want me to keep it brief Burger ? Okay.

Love is trust. Hate is Betrayal. Love gives , Hate steals . Hate conquers and enslaves. Love Free's the soul from the illusion of flesh.

Love Lives and  speaks from experience , not second hand, recycled, fear based Dogma. That's the difference between you and me. I bare my soul, you put it in a box called flesh.

I speak of what I know , you speak from Saturn's rings ...or is it Uranus? Whatever.
If your so deep, how come your replies are so shallow ?

Do you know why you are here? In real life no one wants to listen to you so at least here you can relieve yourself in a witten form. You consider yourself witty and amusing but it is just your opinion. And do not flatter yourself putting yourself next to Swanny when it comes to my menu. I adjust my replies to the person I am replying to so if you consider them shallow you know why.

PS. With regard to your undies...do not wait for the hunt, change them more frequently.

Do I know why I am here ? Yes ,very much so . More than you can imagine judging by the anger and bitterness in your response and your condescending attitude. Its called freedom of speech . But if that offends you then your in the wrong forum.

Swanny ? I don't know Swanny from adam or eve and I dont have anything invested in Swanny . You however seem to need adulation and deference. Something I dont give unless its earned. In the real world.

Nobody listening eh ? Why would you need to make that put down comment ? You have your opinions. I have my experience in the real world. You have what you want, I have what I want . So why so bitter ?

I always ask someone who comes on at me like this the following question but they NEVER answer .

'Why are you so angry and unhappy ?'

I dont presume to answer the question for you . Your life , your choices. Just dont expect meek submission when you IMPOSE your beliefs on others . Its called Tyranny and it never goes down well with real people. Only fanatics deal in absolutes .
I shall no longer reply to any of your input so save your self the bother of trying to troll me.

I know how passive aggressive assassins work. But sometimes you have to dance with them before they play their cards unfortunately . And they hate it when you ignore them so much that they accuse you of doing things to hurt them even when you shut the door and refuse to answer.
Hate is not unique different or special, its the main currency of humanity. They speak it,eat it, live it and throw it around to keep it going. Because they live off of it.

The only thing I am arguing for is an honest relationship with nature, not a deal with the Devil. Because the Devil WANTS YOU to hate him. He feeds on it. You empower him with it. Hate is the absence of love. No amount of righteous Veg diet will fill that emptiness . You cant steal the moral high ground and deny the one thing you need to hold it justly. Love.

blue roller wrote:

burgundia wrote:

blue roller wrote:I think we are on Burgundia's Menu Swanny . Better change my undies and freshen up. Do you think he would prefer the red lipstick or the coral Pink?
I'm thinking something casual but not to slutty , maybe a leopard print handbag with the gold rimmed Gucci sunglasses. If your gonna get eaten by words , may as well go down with a fake ID . I do love giving people surprises.

So you want me to keep it brief Burger ? Okay.

Love is trust. Hate is Betrayal. Love gives , Hate steals . Hate conquers and enslaves. Love Free's the soul from the illusion of flesh.

Love Lives and  speaks from experience , not second hand, recycled, fear based Dogma. That's the difference between you and me. I bare my soul, you put it in a box called flesh.

I speak of what I know , you speak from Saturn's rings ...or is it Uranus? Whatever.
If your so deep, how come your replies are so shallow ?

Do you know why you are here? In real life no one wants to listen to you so at least here you can relieve yourself in a witten form. You consider yourself witty and amusing but it is just your opinion. And do not flatter yourself putting yourself next to Swanny when it comes to my menu. I adjust my replies to the person I am replying to so if you consider them shallow you know why.

PS. With regard to your undies...do not wait for the hunt, change them more frequently.

Do I know why I am here ? Yes ,very much so . More than you can imagine judging by the anger and bitterness in your response and your condescending attitude. Its called freedom of speech . But if that offends you then your in the wrong forum.

Swanny ? I don't know Swanny from adam or eve and I dont have anything invested in Swanny . You however seem to need adulation and deference. Something I dont give unless its earned. In the real world.

Nobody listening eh ? Why would you need to make that put down comment ? You have your opinions. I have my experience in the real world. You have what you want, I have what I want . So why so bitter ?

I always ask someone who comes on at me like this the following question but they NEVER answer .

'Why are you so angry and unhappy ?'

I dont presume to answer the question for you . Your life , your choices. Just dont expect meek submission when you IMPOSE your beliefs on others . Its called Tyranny and it never goes down well with real people. Only fanatics deal in absolutes .
I shall no longer reply to any of your input so save your self the bother of trying to troll me.

I know how passive aggressive assassins work. But sometimes you have to dance with them before they play their cards unfortunately . And they hate it when you ignore them so much that they accuse you of doing things to hurt them even when you shut the door and refuse to answer.
Hate is not unique different or special, its the main currency of humanity. They speak it,eat it, live it and throw it around to keep it going. Because they live off of it.

The only thing I am arguing for is an honest relationship with nature, not a deal with the Devil. Because the Devil WANTS YOU to hate him. He feeds on it. You empower him with it. Hate is the absence of love. No amount of righteous Veg diet will fill that emptiness . You cant steal the moral high ground and deny the one thing you need to hold it justly. Love.