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    Planet X | Niburu hoax

    Raven
    Raven

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    Post  Raven on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:42 pm

    ceridwen wrote:You may want to look at this



    and this http://www.gsjournal.net/old/ntham/amesbury.pdf

    I am not a scientist so while I understand most of it, I can not really discuss the paper. You can email them though, the email is at the top of the paper

    Scientist are progressing, correcting their mistakes and becoming more accurate with new more powerful sensors. The new theories do not leave any space whatsoever for Nibiru

    Dear Unicorn lassie de Eire!

    This is a nice attempt to introduce the 'multidimensionality' into the astrophysics ceridwen; but it does not describe the actual science of the solar system's dynamics.
    Whenever you see comments like this on 'you tube' like here; then you should open up your discernment filters. Science builds on existing models, just as your last comment indicated. Science does not 'throw out' its own history of discovery and the evolvement of its auspices and modus operandi. Newton based his 'Principia' on Galileo, Kepler, Copernicus and the greek and french etc. 'natural philosophers'. Einstein did NOT render Newtonian mechanics 'redundant', he simply EXTENDED and finetuned the science of the 17th and 18th century.

    The obvious 'flaws' in this 'you tube' science, is its misunderstandings as to how space and time function in something called a 'metric' aka a 'spacetime matrix'. Those 'metrics' define the nature of spacetime in well tested and verified principles like the conservation of energy and momentum, both linear and rotational. One important principle is that of 'Relativity', which means, that the 'Laws of Nature' are not selective in regards to location and temporality. The 'frames of references' of the observer, so become determinative for the 'measurements' in all of the universal dynamics.
    In these videos, the frames of the observer is of course one watching the solar system moving through spacetime, say in another frame of reference of that of a galactic observer, which then would be relatively stationary to this solar system observer.
    Of course, now you could reference 'Einstein - and Relativity debunker' you tube videos, to say, that the 'old science' got it wrong and that there are better models, like say the vortex heliocentric dynamics of professor so and so, most likely without much actual experience and nous in the 'science' heshe wishes to 'reform'.

    And yes, there are 'flaws' or better said 'missing models and explanations' in what is known today as the 'standard science' as promulgated and taught at the universities. But as you said, this 'missing information' in the old models might very well be found sooner or later in the actual scientists and laymen doing the actual research under utility of the present data base and knowledge.
    You will not find this advancement by the 'wanna be experts', which 'throw out' the history of science in their New Age BS,so amenable now to the spread of misinformation in the prevalence of the data overload.

    Forget the old heliocentric model - our solar system is a vortex!

    The old Newtonion/Copernican Heliocentric model of our solar system is an unproven theory. In fact it is a false one.

    Since our solar system travels through space, the planets do NOT revolve around the Sun in a circular fashion.
    They are "dragged" behind the Sun in a spiral: vortex motion. In fact, after 365 days the Earth does NOT return to the starting point of its orbit.

    This has GREAT consequences for the physics involved, because rotational motion and vortex motion are two completely different things:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotation_around_a_fixed_axis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex

    In Nature, everything spirals. Life itself is vortex motion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0jHsq36_NTU

    True and the helical motion in this video is like a scalar component for a transverse propagating electromagnetic field. Just here, the 'good science' of Nikola Tesla has also become 'hijacked' by the 'BS artists'; who misconstrue his 'ideas' on the scalar component of a 3-dimensional wave propagation. It is the scalar unidirectional component, which is 'seen cometlike', as the motion of the sun along its path around the galactic centre, apparently 'dragging' the planets in their helical vortical orbits with it.
    However, this 3d scalar component is well described by the Laws of Nature in say the Maxwellian Electromagnetic Fields and does not require a 'New Age Vortex physics'.

    There is a multidimensionality in the 'Laws of Physics', which CAN transcend the 4-dimensional matrix of the socalled 'tyranny of the lightspeed prison'. This idea then has found great speculation and nonsense proposals (like 90% of you tube videos) by many, who are dissatisfied with the present state of the world in science and also generally.
    This extension is also WELL KNOWN by the present day scientific thinkers, but does not receive the mainstream exposure; say as an effect of the 'science educational standards' of the general populace.
    This extension is 'hyperspace' and this hyperspace simply adds a 4th spacial dimension to the existing 3 dimensions of XYZ and so allows a 5-dimensional metric or matrix to superpose the existing criteria and paramaters, such as what space and time are in connection with whatever dynamics occurs within it (say a plenum).

    Having a real 5-dimensional spacetime metric, would allow New Age misnomers like Tesla's 'scalar telluric currents' or the 'tachyonic superluminal velocities' to become appropriately defined and characterised WITHIN the basis of the now existing 4-dimensional (Minkowski) metric. The 4D matrix is 'flat'; whilst a 5D matrix would allow this selfsame 'curvature', those videos are attempting to show in a rather naive misrepresentation of the frame referenced dynamics of the solar system about the galactic center.
    The Milky Way galaxy also moves in divers motions towards the sister galaxy Andromeda and towards a socalled 'Great Attractor' in the Virgo supercluster.
    If those videos would portend 'a new astrophysics', then it has ignored the relative vortex dynamics of the galactic component acting upon it and so on.

    A simple experimenty for you ceridwen; when you are in a plane with your friend, sitting say two rows ahead of you in the plane. Can you actually throw a ball to your friend and can your friend catch your ball?
    Nevertheless the physical factuality, that the plane is moving at great speed through a 4-dimensional spacetime matrix? Would the relative velocity of the ball flying within the plane NOT be subject to the speed of the plane and so DISTORT the flightpath of the ball?
    Its the 'reference frame' of the Unicorn de Eire as forming a physically 'isolated system' for the dynamics; just as the local starsystem in its celestial mechanics, can be coinsidered as such without superposing the relativity of the galactic dynamics.

    The refusal of the 'wanna bes' to actually USE the existing models for their 'pioneering' and reforming agendas would be a criteria of discernment for anyone to utilize in the attempts to separate the 'possible expansion of the status quo in any field of science' from the New Age BS.

    Here is a better you tube video with valid extension proposals by various agents, including Victor Schauberger, Walter Russell, Ed Leedskalnin, and pointing to the misconceptions of Nassim Haramein and this related one from Keshava Bhat and the 'Keshe foundation'. Caveat, whilst this video appropriately addresses the videos of ceridwen in a representative sense; and whilst the 'author' is 'in tune' with certain 'matrix extensions' by the models he supports; he does not adhere to the practice and history of the 'standard science', say as indicated in the above. This author so is not recommended as a valid source of information apart from 'insights' into the 'Magnetic Current' ideas of Walter Russell and Ed Leedskalnin and affinities in a particular mode of interpretation of the multidimensionality of the universe.



    Toast Raven Lionheart for the Thuban Library on Akbar Ra Lionhawk



    Last edited by Raven on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:35 am; edited 5 times in total
    gscraig
    gscraig

    Posts : 270
    Join date : 2010-04-12

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    Post  gscraig on Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:13 am



    There is nothing silly about bringing to attention the odious activities of scam artists and fear mongers and misinformationists. It helps to clear the path.

    Some people will find such perspectives and the efforts of the people who have taken the time to write papers and present educational videos detracting from the egregore of fear of value and reassuring as not everyone is as advanced as you yet.

    Of course we need to focus on more important earthly matters and so on than space objects too but we knew that anyway before your interjection.

    Please go and do some of it.

    You are unfortunately again missing the point. When you continue to bombard people with information and both hemispheres are proclaiming their information is the truth or facts, you are actually contributing to the confusion. There are people who have taken great care and time dating back millenia to write information to this day that is false, but yet celebrated, honored and by some worshipped. Floyd my friend, you continue to combat anyone who oppose your viewpoint, but then display a significant degree of anger or chastisement when they ridicule your approach?? Believe it or not, this makes you the cancer that you think you are standing against. It goes back to my comment in another thread which was; It's as if your being paid to continuously post and maintain your particular brand of rhetoric. Rhetoric heavy with anger and always creating disharmony even on threads that are simply sharing mutual experiences and perspectives and did not invite your presence. Yet, we are jumping into those threads and policing them with aggressive finger pointing and insults. I'm sorry Floyd, but you can't suggest to me and anyone else on this site what one ought not do,for your words are hollow as they flow from empty actions that are often conflicting, contradictory and divide more than they unite.

    In the grand scheme of things, there's enough you can see and feel occurring that does not require reading someone's writings, books, memoirs, scientific notes or peer reviewed hypothesis. Especially coming from those in a carefully constructed education and science system that ensures limited self awareness and progression of a species and knowledge. Like I said before...Silly indeed.

    That will be my final effort of energy I will expend in regards to your presence. So Here! Here! for my departure. Both of us are "preaching" and ultimately, the time for talk has passed.

    Floyd
    Floyd

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    Join date : 2010-04-16

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    Post  Floyd on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:34 am

    Hey are you obsessed with me by any chance? "Floyd is this Floyd is that, Floyd is a cancer, Floyd works for people blah blah blah"
    Im flattered of your close attentions.

    I am taken for im afraid but I can give you a big kiss
    Hugs

    Im not gonna spend more than a minute or so responding to you and your usual passive aggressive style but I'll tell you something, if people dont like my views on pseudo science and heavily marketed pseudo spiritual rubbish then thats great.
    I dont see many complaining though perhaps you and a couple of others.
    If a couple people on here think im an arse hole for my stance fine but you will never see me accusing them of things, such and such is this such and such is that .

    I know its difficult for some people when their world view is challenged and it may not be quite like they thought it was. It illicits all kinds of responses, often resentment and anger.

    There is lots of useful and interesting material on this thread that is not based on pseudo science. If you dont like it or think it silly then says more about you than me.
    gscraig wrote:
    That will be my final effort of energy I will expend in regards to your presence. So Here! Here! for my departure. Both of us are "preaching" and ultimately, the time for talk has passed.

    Youve said that before lets hope you mean it this time.
    Actions always speak louder than words. There is plenty of time left to take action rather than live in fear of the pseudo scientist's nonsense like many visitors to these kinds of forums do.

    ceridwen
    ceridwen

    Posts : 267
    Join date : 2012-02-13

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    Post  ceridwen on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:27 am

    Raven wrote:
    ceridwen wrote:You may want to look at this



    and this http://www.gsjournal.net/old/ntham/amesbury.pdf

    I am not a scientist so while I understand most of it, I can not really discuss the paper. You can email them though, the email is at the top of the paper

    Scientist are progressing, correcting their mistakes and becoming more accurate with new more powerful sensors. The new theories do not leave any space whatsoever for Nibiru

    Dear Unicorn lassie de Eire!

    This is a nice attempt to introduce the 'multidimensionality' into the astrophysics ceridwen; but it does not describe the actual science of the solar system's dynamics.
    Whenever you see comments like this on 'you tube' like here; then you should open up your discernment filters. Science builds on existing models, just as your last comment indicated. Science does not 'throw out' its own history of discovery and the evolvement of its auspices and modus operandi. Newton based his 'Principia' on Galileo, Kepler, Copernicus and the greek and french etc. 'natural philosophers'. Einstein did NOT render Newtonian mechanics 'redundant', he simply EXTENDED and finetuned the science of the 17th and 18th century.

    The obvious 'flaws' in this 'you tube' science, is its misunderstandings as to how space and time function in something called a 'metric' aka a 'spacetime matrix'. Those 'metrics' define the nature of spacetime in well tested and verified principles like the conservation of energy and momentum, both linear and rotational. One important principle is that of 'Relativity', which means, that the 'Laws of Nature' are not selective in regards to location and temporality. The 'frames of references' of the observer, so become determinative for the 'measurements' in all of the universal dynamics.
    In these videos, the frames of the observer is of course one watching the solar system moving through spacetime, say in another frame of reference of that of a galactic observer, which then would be relatively stationary to this solar system observer.
    Of course, now you could reference 'Einstein - and Relativity debunker' you tube videos, to say, that the 'old science' got it wrong and that there are better models, like say the vortex heliocentric dynamics of professor so and so, most likely without much actual experience and nous in the 'science' heshe wishes to 'reform'.

    And yes, there are 'flaws' or better said 'missing models and explanations' in what is known today as the 'standard science' as promulgated and taught at the universities. But as you said, this 'missing information' in the old models might very well be found sooner or later in the actual scientists and laymen doing the actual research under utility of the present data base and knowledge.
    You will not find this advancement by the 'wanna be experts', which 'throw out' the history of science in their New Age BS,so amenable now to the spread of misinformation in the prevalence of the data overload.

    Forget the old heliocentric model - our solar system is a vortex!

    The old Newtonion/Copernican Heliocentric model of our solar system is an unproven theory. In fact it is a false one.

    Since our solar system travels through space, the planets do NOT revolve around the Sun in a circular fashion.
    They are "dragged" behind the Sun in a spiral: vortex motion. In fact, after 365 days the Earth does NOT return to the starting point of its orbit.

    This has GREAT consequences for the physics involved, because rotational motion and vortex motion are two completely different things:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotation_around_a_fixed_axis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex

    In Nature, everything spirals. Life itself is vortex motion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0jHsq36_NTU

    True and the helical motion in this video is like a scalar component for a transverse propagating electromagnetic field. Just here, the 'good science' of Nikola Tesla has also become 'hijacked' by the 'BS artists'; who misconstrue his 'ideas' on the scalar component of a 3-dimensional wave propagation. It is the scalar unidirectional component, which is 'seen cometlike', as the motion of the sun along its path around the galactic centre, apparently 'dragging' the planets in their helical vortical orbits with it.
    However, this 3d scalar component is well described by the Laws of Nature in say the Maxwellian Electromagnetic Fields and does not require a 'New Age Vortex physics'.

    There is a multidimensionality in the 'Laws of Physics', which CAN transcend the 4-dimenmsional matrix of the socalled 'tyranny of the lightspeed prison'. This idea then has found great speculation and nonsense proposals (like 90% of you tube videos) by many, who are dissatisfied with the present state of the world in science and also generally.
    This extension is also WELL KNOWN by the present day scientific thinkers, but does not receive the mainstream exposure; say as an effect of the 'science educational standards' of the general populace.
    This extension is 'hyperspace' and this hyperspace simply adds a 4th spacial dimension to the existing 3 dimensions of XYZ and so allows a 5-dimensional metric or matrix to superpose the existing criteria and paramaters, such as what space and time are in connection with whatever dynamics occurs within it (say a plenum).

    Having a real 5-dimensional spacetime metric, would allow New Age misnomers like Tesla's 'scalar telluric currents' or the 'tachyonic superluminal velocities' to become appropriately defined and characterised WITHIN the basis of the now existing 4-dimensional (Minkowski) metric. The 4D matrix is 'flat'; whilst a 5D matrix would allow this selfsame curvature, those videos are attempting to show in a rather naive misrepresentation of the frame referenced dynamics of the solar system about the galactic center.
    The Milky way galaxy also moves in divers motions towards the sister galaxy Andromeda and towards a socalled 'Great Attractor' in the Virgo supercluster.
    If those videos would portend 'a new astrophysics', then it has ignored the relative vortex dynamics of the galactic component acting upon it and so on.

    A simple experimenty for you ceridwen; when you are in a plane with your friend, sitting say two rows ahead of you in the plane. Can you actually throw a ball to your friend and can your friend catch your ball?
    Nevertheless the physical factuality, that the plane os moving at great speed through a 4-dimensional spacetime matrix? Would the relative velocity of the ball flying within the plane NOT be subject to the speed of the plane and so DISTORT the flightpath of the ball?
    Its the 'reference frame' of the Unicorn de Eire as forming a physically 'isolated system' for the dynamics; just as the local starsystem in its celestial mechanics, can be coinsidered as such without superposing the relativity of the galactic dynamics.

    The refusal of the 'wanna bes' to actually USE the existing models for their 'pioneering' and reforming agendas would be a criteria of discernment for anyone to utilize in the attempts to separate the 'possible expansion of the status quo in any field of science' from the New Age BS.

    Here is a better you tube video with valid extension proposals by various agents, including Victor Schauberger, Walter Russell, Ed Leedskalnin, and pointing to the misconceptions of Nassim Haramein and this related one from Keshava Bhat and the 'Keshe foundation'. Caveat, whilst this video appropriately addresses the videos of ceridwen in a representative sense; and whilst the 'author' is 'in tune' with certain 'matrix extensions' by the models he supports; he does not adhere to the practice and history of the 'standard science', say as indicated in the above. This author so is not recommended as a valid source of information apart from 'insights' into the 'Magnetic Current' ideas of Walter Russell and Ed Leedskalnin and affinities in a particular mode of interpretation of the multidimensionality of the universe.



    Toast Raven Lionheart for the Thuban Library on Akbar Ra Lionhawk


    Just read this please http://www.gsjournal.net/old/ntham/amesbury.pdf it will clarify many of your miss conceptions

    In my post I mentioned that I am not a scientist so if you want to spill your guts contact Dr. Keshava Bhat, it is his theory and not mine

    To think everything is static is silly, we are spiraling at great speed across the galaxy (which is a spiral too) thus we have a change in the influence the stars, as we are leaving the age of Pisces for Aquarius. If you think the solar system stays where it is you got your maths wrong. What you cite is old hypothesis that could not be verified, more philosophy than sciences. Now we have probes and satellites my dear, all has changed many have been proven wrong. Sorry you don't like it

    Was Einstein wrong?
    http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2094665,00.html
    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/11/opinion/la-oe-1011-lemonick-einstein-20111011
    http://discovermagazine.com/2012/mar/09-is-einsteins-greatest-work-wrong-didnt-go-far

    Here some info from Dr. Bhat http://www.feandft.com/Dr.%20Bhat.htm

    Have fun!

    Flowers
    Raven
    Raven

    Posts : 513
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    Post  Raven on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:48 am

    ceridwen wrote:
    Raven wrote:
    ceridwen wrote:You may want to look at this


    Just read this please http://www.gsjournal.net/old/ntham/amesbury.pdf it will clarify many of your miss conceptions

    In my post I mentioned that I am not a scientist so if you want to spill your guts contact Dr. Keshava Bhat, it is his theory and not mine

    To think everything is static is silly, we are spiraling at great speed across the galaxy (which is a spiral too) thus we have a change in the influence the stars, as we are leaving the age of Pisces for Aquarius. If you think the solar system stays where it is you got your maths wrong. What you cite is old hypothesis that could not be verified, more philosophy than sciences. Now we have probes and satellites my dear, all has changed many have been proven wrong. Sorry you don't like it

    Was Einstein wrong?
    http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2094665,00.html
    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/11/opinion/la-oe-1011-lemonick-einstein-20111011
    http://discovermagazine.com/2012/mar/09-is-einsteins-greatest-work-wrong-didnt-go-far

    Here some info from Dr. Bhat http://www.feandft.com/Dr.%20Bhat.htm

    Have fun!

    Flowers

    Dear oh dear; I should have known or elaborated on the 'Einstein bashers'.

    I might give more credibility to the unicorns of Eire, than your 'professors de murkiness of the worldwide web'.
    Have fun too and substitute real science with New Age gobbledegook 'quasiscience'!

    For a real 'extension' into 'vortex physics' you might consider the Einstein-Cartan metric and 'learn' some real physics.
    But some people prefer to be hoodwinked and brainwashed by 'fancy words' 'you tube videos' and 'flashy websites'.
    You might have a particular affinity with those presentations ceridwen.

    And yes, I am well aware of the work of Julian Barbour and other 'mavericks' indicated by your reply. Perhaps you can see, that published articles like in 'Discover' magazine and essays by the 'science savvy' newspaper journalists are somewhat more subject to the 'selling and distribution' of the newspapers and magazines, than to present the detailed semantics of the research.
    If you actually read as to what Barbour says in his article in 'Discover', you will see his convergence to the relativity theories in an attempt to 'extend' the spacetime metric of the 'flatness' into a 'natural curvature' basic to the hyperspace.
    And yes, there are 'flaws' in the 'mainstream science'; this is why more eloquent scientists like Barbour do have a certain acceptance in the scientific global community.
    They even give 'nobel prizes' to research, which might very well be found out to have been based on a misreading of the experimental data. The 'dark matter' and 'dark energy' and the 'accelerating universe' do come to mind.

    There are just a few 'mavericks' about, who would say, that the 'older paradigms' actually do have a few things right, such as an asymptotic deceleration of the universe in its expansion. Barbour is not alone, with his elaboration on the Machian principle as ADDING, not replacing the Einstein cosmologies and in this respect the 'maverickness' is rather acceptable; both in terms of the novelty based on the history of the science and the actual working out of the theory in sound, logical and selfconsistent hypotheses.

    Addendum: The 'faster than light neutrino' issue, you referenced above, was actually addressed on this forum even before the 'agents' retracted their 'results'. You are a little late in using 'sensationalist' press releases for your 'pet theories' ceridwen.

    http://www.themistsofavalon.net/t3308-particles-found-to-travel-faster-than-speed-of-light

    Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 600
    CERN scientists who clocked subatomic particles called neutrinos traveling faster than the speed of light now say the results were incorrect.
    (Anja Niedringhaus / Associated Press / June 11, 2012)

    By Amina Khan, Los Angeles Times / For Science Now
    This post has been corrected. See the note below for details.
    June 12, 2012, 10:09 a.m.



    In case there was even a subatomic particle's worth of doubt in your mind about that supposedly faster-than-light neutrino, a presentation by a physicist involved in those Earth-shaking experiments should put them to rest.

    Back in September, we wrote about some head-turning preliminary results out of an experiment at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, known as CERN. Scientists who sent streams of subatomic particles from an accelerator outside Geneva to a detector about 450 miles away in Italy found that one of those particles, called a neutrino, appeared to have traveled slightly faster than the speed of light -- fast enough to arrive about 60 nanoseconds sooner than light would have.

    [For the record, 10:08 a.m., June 12: An earlier version of this post incorrectly said the neutrinos were thought to be 60 seconds faster.]

    This would break a fundamental rule of physics presented by Albert Einstein -- that light's velocity presents the ultimate speed limit.

    "If you have particles traveling faster than the speed of light, you can in principle go back in time. So you can be your own grandmother," Stephen Parke, a theoretical particle physicist at Fermilab in Batavia, Ill., said at the time. "As you can imagine, that causes some problems."

    Even Sergio Bertolucci, director of research at CERN, expressed doubt at the time that the results would stand up to scientific scrutiny.

    "I think the most probable thing is that the experiment is wrong," Bertolucci told me in an interview last year, about a month after the story broke. "But as an experimentalist, until I prove it wrong, it's not wrong." The implications of such findings for our fundamental understanding of the universe were too big to ignore.

    It turns out Bertolucci's instinct was correct. In a paper at the 25th International Conference on Neutrino Physics and Astrophysics in Kyoto, Japan, on Friday, Bertolucci explained that four separate experiments had confirmed the neutrinos were not flying faster than light -- and that the original anomalous reading was due to a problem with the experiment's fiber-optic timing system.

    This isn't new news to anyone in the field; it became clear pretty quickly that the result was probably incorrect. Two scientists in the experiment group, known as OPERA, stepped down after receiving votes of no confidence in March. So these new results, as Science magazine put it, are less like the nail in the coffin and "more like the sod planted atop their grave."

    Perhaps for the sake of positive spin, Bertolucci is quoted in a news release as saying, "The story captured the public imagination, and has given people the opportunity to see the scientific method in action -- an unexpected result was put up for scrutiny, thoroughly investigated and resolved in part thanks to collaboration between normally competing experiments. That's how science moves forward."


    http://www.latimes.com/news/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-faster-than-light-neutrino-cern-20120611,0,2050787.story

    A Link shared by Brook of Egyptological renown.

    Einstein was right, neutrino researchers admit

    June 8, 2012 by Harumi Ozawa

    http://phys.org/news/2012-06-einstein-neutrino.html

    Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 Einsteins190

    Picture shows Albert Einstein at a press conference in 1950.


    A team of scientists who last year suggested neutrinos could travel faster than light conceded Friday that Einstein was right and the sub-atomic particles are -- like everything else -- bound by the universe's speed limit.

    Scientists on Friday said that an experiment which challenged Einstein's theory on the speed of light had been flawed and that sub-atomic particles -- like everything else -- are indeed bound by the universe's speed limit.
    Researchers working at the European Centre for Nuclear Research (CERN) caused a storm last year when they published experimental results showing that neutrinos could out-pace light by some six kilometres (3.7 miles) per second.

    The findings threatened to upend modern physics and smash a hole in Albert Einstein's 1905 theory of special relativity, which described the velocity of light as the maximum speed in the cosmos. But CERN now says that the earlier results were wrong and faulty kit was to blame. "Although this result isn't as exciting as some would have liked, it is what we all expected deep down," said the centre's research director Sergio Bertolucci.

    "The story captured the public imagination, and has given people the opportunity to see the scientific method in action. "An unexpected result was put up for scrutiny, thoroughly investigated and resolved in part thanks to collaboration between normally competing experiments. That's how science moves forward." The neutrinos were timed on the journey from CERN's giant underground lab near Geneva to the Gran Sasso Laboratory in Italy, after travelling 732 kilometres (454 miles) through the Earth's crust.

    To do the trip, the neutrinos should have taken 0.0024 seconds. Instead, the particles were recorded as hitting the detectors in Italy 0.00000006 seconds sooner than expected, the preliminary experiment had shown. Researchers updated the science community on Friday at the International Conference on Neutrino Physics and Astrophysics, being held in Japan's ancient capital of Kyoto.

    "The previous data taken up to 2011 with the neutrino beam from CERN to Gran Sasso were revised taking into account understood instrumental effects," the team said. "A coherent picture has emerged with both previous and new data pointing to a neutrino velocity consistent with the speed of light."

    The initial findings had been greeted with a combination of excitement and scepticism, even from those involved in the experiment, who urged other physicists to carry out their own checks to corroborate or refute what had been seen. "If this result at CERN is proved to be right, and particles are found to travel faster than the speed of light, then I am prepared to eat my shorts, live on TV," Jim Al-Khalili, a professor of theoretical physics at Britain's University of Surrey, declared at the time. (c) 2012 AFP

    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-06-einstein-neutrino.html#jCp

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein-Cartan_theory

    study Raven study


    Last edited by Raven on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
    ceridwen
    ceridwen

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    Post  ceridwen on Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:16 am

    Raven, with all due respect. There is no point in continuing this conversation with you because you are a "believer" and when dogma is a stake there can not be cooperation or interchange of ideas. You are not going to "bash" me into submission because I do not give two pence for that kind of immature behaviour

    I am not into "believing" and upholding sacred cows Cow , the only thing that matters to me is truth and direct experience. If it needs to be re-written a million times, so be it

    Is not that I do not recognize the efforts from the past but I do not think that all things past are better

    Harp




    Aquaries1111
    Aquaries1111

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    Post  Aquaries1111 on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:46 am

    Just popped in for lunch.. I think it's important to be open minded but too many Scientists "out there" think they are the only ones "right" and constantly vie for those nobel prizes and accolades of notoriety.. A true Scientist won't come to conclusion, not really, except perhaps on "mainstream" where guidance is inferred via the Elites.. I don't believe much anymore.. I do give a lot of thought to "Dark Matter" and the "Metaphysical".. Anyhow, to lighten up this thread I thought I'd throw in a little light hearted viewing for Monday.. Hey, it's Monday and I'm having a really happy one!



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    Post  Floyd on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:50 am

    A CHALLENGE TO THE WORKS OF ZECHARIA SITCHIN-MICHAEL HEISER

    Full version

    In this video Heiser dismantles Sitchen's fantastical alien cosmology and Niburu hoax cogently and conclusively.

    The key is that Sitchen literally does not know what he is talking about.

    "you cannot just make things up that are just not there"

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    Post  Jenetta on Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:12 am

    [quote="Floyd"]A CHALLENGE TO THE WORKS OF ZECHARIA SITCHIN-MICHAEL HEISER

    Full version

    In this video Heiser dismantles Sitchen's fantastical alien cosmology and Niburu hoax cogently and conclusively.

    The key is that Sitchen literally does not know what he is talking about.

    "you cannot just make things up that are just not there"



    Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep study Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep study Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 1890901109 Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 1890901109 Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 1890901109 Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 1890901109 study
    Floyd
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    Post  Floyd on Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:43 am

    'I believe it Exists therefore it exists'. hmmmm

    Whistle Man waiting for Niburu

    Nibiru Nonsense - 21: The Devil is in the Details

    Floyd
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    Post  Floyd on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:09 pm

    Masters. lets face it hes not the only one scamming off the back of Elenin and Niburu etc.


    Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 Epicfa10


    UPDATE: Since the Comet Elenin Doomsday conspiracies fell to pieces, quite literally, Marshall Masters of YOWUSA.com has removed all Comet Elenin material from the front page of his website. No admissions of being wrong and no apologies for creating unnecessary fear mongering. But honestly, did you really expect anything else?

    Well its been a while since we posted anything, but thought it best we show how wrong the doomcryers were, yet again! We’re going to keep this short and sweet so let’s get this nonsense out of the way.

    First let us go back a little to May 21 of this year; we had the false prophet Harold Camping predicting the end of the world, that was cancelled until October 21, well nothing happened, we’re still here! We had comet Honda pass the Earth on August 15, it didn’t hit us, we’re still here! We had doomcryers predicting that asteroid 2005 YU55 would smash into the Earth on November 8th, it didn’t, we’re still here! But now for the biggie, how can we forget comet Elenin, or the Brown Dwarf star Nibiru as many were saying. First of all it was exactly what it was said to be, a comet, and a wimpy comet at that. Yet we had the imbecile narcissist Marshall Masters saying otherwise.

    Anyway back in August comet Elenin started disintegrating and was reduced to nothing more than dust, Good’ol yowusa soon jumped on that news too. Well we didn’t pass through its debris, we didn’t all get poisioned and we didn’t all turn into zombies and start eating eachother! However we cannot forget the all important date regarding this comet, October 16, when the remnant of Elenin made its closest approach to Earth. It passed by at the precise distance NASA and the astronomers studying this object said it would, 0.2338 AU (34,980,000 km; 21,730,000 mi) and now Elenin, or rather what’s left of it, is on its way back out into deep space. There was a whole bunch more of predictions we could have covered here but quite frankly it wasn’t worth it, the outcome for all is the same, they failed. We’re now in December and 2012 is around the corner, the true great year for ‘EPIC FAILNESS!’ Who knows what other crackpot theories and predictions these lunatics will dig up as we go through the year. We really cannot wait for it to arrive and have fun once again debunking them all.

    I wonder what the next big doomsday prediction will be when the 2012/Nibiru one falls flat on its face? How about 2020? That’s a nice even number isn’t it? Actually here’s a better idea for all the doomcryers, how about when 2012 fails and we pass into 2013, then 2014 etc, you unplug your PC from the wall, then unplug your brain from your ass and go outside and actually do something constructive and worthwhile with your lives? Nuff said.

    http://yowcrooks.wordpress.com/tag/nibiru/
    Floyd
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    Post  Floyd on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:38 pm

    The waxing obsession with Nibiru, which conspiracy theorists say is a planet swinging in from the outskirts of our solar system that is going to crash into Earth and wipe out humanity in 2012 — or, in some opinions, 2011 — shows that an astonishing number of people “are watching YouTube videos and visiting slick websites with nothing in their skeptical toolkit,” in the words of David Morrison, a planetary astronomer at NASA Ames Research Center and senior scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute and NASA Lunar Science Institute.

    Morrison estimates that there are 2 million websites discussing the impending Nibiru-Earth collision. He receives, on average, five email inquiries about Nibiru every day. “At least a once a week I get a message from a young person ― as young as 11 ― who says they are ill and/or contemplating suicide because of the coming doomsday,” Morrison said.

    The idea that doomsday will result from a planetary collision was first proposed in 1995 by Nancy Lieder, a self-described “contactee.” Lieder claims she has the ability to receive messages through an implant in her brain from aliens in the Zeta Reticuli star system. On her website, ZetaTalk, she stated that she was chosen to warn mankind of an impending planetary collision which would wipe out humanity in May 2003. (When no such cataclysmic event occurred, Lieder’s followers chose 2012 as the new date for the Nibiru collision, which coincides neatly with other doomsday prophecies focused on the ending of the Mayan calendar.)

    The biggest missing link in the doomsday prophecy is Nibiru itself. Because no giant, rogue planet has been found in the outer solar system to play the role of Nibiru, some conspiracy theorists have decided that a small comet called Elenin, which will pass nearest Earth in October 2011, is actually Nibiru. Even then, though, scientists say Elenin will come no closer than 100 times farther than the distance from Earth to the moon.

    “The fact is that these folks are constantly changing their story,” Morrison wrote in an email. “For some, Nibiru is no longer the Sumerian god or planet that is supposed to be returning to Earth in late 2012. It has become a catchword for almost any cosmic catastrophe.”

    Internet rumors about Elenin began spreading earlier this year. Its approach to Earth was blamed for shifting the Earth’s axis by 3 degrees in February, precipitating the Chile earthquake, then shifting the pole even more to trigger the Japan quake in March. “Ignoring plate tectonics as the cause of earthquakes, they suggest that the comet exerted strong gravitational or electromagnetic effects on our planet,” Morrison wrote.

    When scientists pointed out that the comet is a mere 3-mile-wide glob of ice with no magnetic field and that it won’t even pass very near Earth — and that plate tectonics, not comets, cause earthquakes — rumors began to circulate that NASA was withholding information about Elenin.

    “Ironically, the inconspicuous nature of this comet plays into some of the conspiracy theories,” Morrison pointed out. “For people who are convinced the comet did cause the earthquakes, this proves that Elenin is not a comet at all, but a much more massive, and dangerous, interloper.” Conspiracy theorists began speculating that the comet is Nibiru in disguise — a planet or even an enormous brown dwarf star.

    In fact, Elenin is a textbook comet; it has visible “coma,” or nucleus, and a long tail made of vaporizing ice. If it were a brown dwarf, “it would not have a coma or tail, because the gas cannot escape from an object with substantial gravity. In addition, if it were massive we would be seeing its gravitational influence on the orbits of the planets, especially Mars and Earth, but there is no change in these orbits,” Morrison wrote. “Finally, if it were a brown dwarf it would have been easily detected in various previous astronomical surveys, including the recent WISE infrared mission, even when it was still in the outer solar system,” he wrote.

    The fact that the comet isn’t headed our way is overlooked by most conspiracy theorists, while others say its path is going to change. “[Some] websites suggest that the comet is accompanied by a giant UFO, which controls its orbit,” Morrison told us; in effect, who cares if Elenin doesn’t seem to be headed in our direction — it’ll be steered here.

    http://lunarscience.nasa.gov/articles/scientists-reject-impending-nibiru-earth-collision/


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    Post  Raven on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:53 am

    ceridwen wrote:Raven, with all due respect. There is no point in continuing this conversation with you because you are a "believer" and when dogma is a stake there can not be cooperation or interchange of ideas. You are not going to "bash" me into submission because I do not give two pence for that kind of immature behaviour

    I am not into "believing" and upholding sacred cows Cow , the only thing that matters to me is truth and direct experience. If it needs to be re-written a million times, so be it

    Is not that I do not recognize the efforts from the past but I do not think that all things past are better

    Harp





    Ceridwen, I am not here to bash you into submission only to share data. It is always your choice to discern anything I share as truth or not. Everything I have shared with you has a true and direct basis in reality and can be verified by you with your own direct experience, but there is only one problem, your not willing to put forth the effort to understand.

    ceridwen wrote:In my post I mentioned that I am not a scientist so if you want to spill your guts contact Dr. Keshava Bhat, it is his theory and not mine

    The sacred cow your worshiping my dear is your own ignorance. You lack the basis to effectively discern and understand real science AS well as the NABS science you quoted to me. This goes back to what many have said before, don't believe everything you read on the internet just because someone said it, do your own research, don't be lazy. Don't you dare say our maths are wrong without at least doing the homework and qualifying yourself to give such an answer.

    [2:58:34 PM-Wednesday, September 12th, 2012 - (+10UCT)]
    Thubanis: Btw we were naive; ceridwen is akin a 'guru worshipper', for a 'wanna be reformer scientist', who says something like this on his 'curriculum vitae": Don't laugh!? ok?
    [2:58:42 PM] Thubanis:

    The Vortex Solar System proved by Dr. Keshava Bhat. This means the end of the academic, helio-centric "clock work face" orbit theory, invented by the "catholic military priest" nicolas copernicus and later cherished by newton, brahe, kepler, galileo, einstein, hawking, sagan and the rest of their academic ilk

    [2:58:57 PM] Ishtara Raven: lol
    [2:59:09 PM] Thubanis: And this is a 'qualified' person to comment on the dynamics of the solar system???
    [2:59:14 PM] Ishtara Raven: right
    [2:59:21 PM] Ishtara Raven: hard not to laugh dear
    [2:59:25 PM] Thubanis: Look for yourself here: http://www.feandft.com/Dr.%20Bhat.htm

    Cow In Lakech, Raven Cow
    Raven
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    Post  Raven on Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:18 am

    Floyd wrote:
    Raven wrote:

    It never ends for the 'NABS believers' to become ever more 'bedazzled' by the 'ptb disinformers and fear mongers'!

    Now where are the 'resumes' of those 'ground breaking' whistleblowers, 'reformer scientists' and pioneers for a 'New World Order'?
    Remote Viewing par excellence!



    As soon as I saw this thread yesterday the first thing I noticed was that there was no name attributed. An instant giveaway that it was a hoax.

    More unmitigated crap along with Elenin, moon sized objects, piloted crafts, YU55 nonsense and least of all the Niburu hoax.


    Please dispose of in the Fear: The Egregore of Doom thread Arrow

    As for Brown and his remote viewing, he was caught up in a fraud over an alleged photo of a 'craft' trailing Hale Bop

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/heavens_gate/4.html

    Dr. Courtney Brown, claiming to be adept at "remote viewing," or seeing things that occurred far away, told radio host Art Bell that he was in possession of photographs of the comet. They clearly showed an object in its wake and this object had all the appearances of an alien craft. In fact, Brown said he'd "looked" inside and had seen alien life forms. This claim drew many expectant listeners who wanted to see the photos, including members of Heaven's Gate.



    Sensing the arrival of the most significant event in their short history, the crew-minded group went together to watch Star Wars. They also attended a UFO conference, bought insurance against alien abductions and impregnation, and purchased a high-powered telescope. They were looking for the "companion" to Hale-Bopp, they told the store manager, which they described as a small shape near the comet. That was their mothership. When they failed to find it, they returned the telescope. The manager found their ideas puzzling.

    Then in January 1997, the promised photographs were finally posted on Art Bell's Web site and then were quickly exposed as a hoax. Yet the Heaven's Gate crew was not deterred. On their Web site they wrote, "Whether Hale-Bopp has a companion or not is irrelevant from our perspective." Its approach alone was significant as "the marker weve been waiting for." Visible or not, the spaceship would be there ready to take them home. They were about to "graduate" from human to more-than-human. Those who were reading the message might even want to get their own "boarding passes."



    Carol wrote:
    Does anyone know anything about this?

    Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 Asteroid_antarctica_2012

    Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 Filchner-ronne2
    Huge Asteroid Will Hit Antarctica in Fall of 2012
    Read article: http://reinep.wordpress.com/2010/09/08/huge-asteroid-will-hit-antarctica-in-2012/
    University of British Columbia Professor published an on-line article that projected an 800m asteroid would hit Antarctica in the fall of 2012.
    The article hypothesized a 94% probability that the asteroid would impact on the Filchner-Ronne ice shelf and cause 2/3 of ice on Antarctica to crumble into sea. The article surmised the total collapse of all Antarctic ice within 2-4 months after impact. “A deep enough impact would crack the ice shelf like a window and total structural collapse would be inevitable, a few months at the outside.” If the ice on Antarctica was added the the world’s ocean it would raise them by 70 meters.

    University of British Columbia Professor published an on-line article that projected an 800m asteroid would hit Antarctica in the fall of 2012. His article was on the www.phas.ubc.ca website for 2 days before it abruptly disappeared. The initial data was gathered by The Balloon-borne Large-Aperture Sub millimeter Telescope (BLAST) at McMurdo Station, Antarctica. The theorized asteroid was then tracked by Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope on Mauna Kea, which (with the Adaptive Optics Bonnette) supplies probably the sharpest images currently obtainable from the ground. One week after this mysterious article disappeared, “Canadian and American astronauts say the world needs to prepare for the big one — the asteroid impact that could one day devastate the Earth.Veteran Canadian astronaut Chris Hadfield is president of the Association of Space Explorers, which has prepared a detailed report on the asteroid threat. The Canadian Space Agency intends to launch NEOSSat next March to look for asteroids that may be hiding near the sun. The $15-million suitcase-sized satellite will circle about 700 kilometers above the Earth. A Canadian Space Agency official says NEOSSat is expected to detect hundreds of new asteroids during its first year of operation. It will also monitor the heavy traffic of satellites now orbiting the Earth to try to prevent possible collisions.”

    Could this be what might cause the Displacement Wave Clif High Talks About? Its strange because this article disapeared in 2 days after it was posted. Hopefully this will not happen, we need lots of research on this. This also ties into Courtney Browns RV research regarding that region by early 2013

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46708-GLOBAL-COASTAL-EVENT-Courtney-Brown-Farsight-Project-2013-Timeline-Prediction

    Courtney Brown - Hour 1 - Remote Viewing & Earth Changes Data For 2013
    http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2012/07/RIR-120719.php

    Carol wrote:A meteor strike on the planet
    http://www.viewzone.com/rv2013.html


    Remote Viewing 2012-2013: not good news...

    In 2008 a team of 8 military grade remote viewers were asked to view several targets with the understanding that the actual target assignments for each session would be given to them in the future. The sessions were given a number (S1, S2...) and the notes and drawings from each session were collected, scanned, encrypted and subsequently downloaded by tens of thousands of internet users for some future date, when the encryption codes would be published. This guaranteed that the results of the remote viewing sessions could not be changed.

    There was a total of 113 sessions. Once the sessions had been recorded, the targets were selected in a random manner, pairing each session with one of three possible target conditions in 9 different locations around the globe:

    1. Vaitupu, Tuvalu
    2. Fort Jesus, Mombasa Kenya
    3. Sydney Opera House, Sydney, Australia
    4. Mount Kilimanjaro, Tanzania
    5. United States Congress Building, Washington, D.C.
    6. Malé International Airport, Malé, Maldives
    7. KITV Building, Honolulu, Hawaii
    8. The Vehicle Assembly Building at Launch Complex 39, Kennedy Space Center, Merritt Island, Florida
    9. Key West, Florida

    The three conditions were:

    1. The date of June 2008

    A. "June 1, 2013, 12 noon target local time, following the timeline in which the leadership of the mainstream global scientific establishment continues to ignore or deny (1) the reality of the remote-viewing phenomenon, and (2) the existence of life not originating from Earth."

    B. "June 1, 2013, 12 noon target local time, following the timeline in which by the end of 2009 leaders of the mainstream global scientific establishment publicly recognize (1) the reality of the remote-viewing phenomenon, and (2) the existence of life not originating from Earth."

    Each remote viewing session that had already been recorded was associated with a specific geographic location and condition. The results, originally thought to show changes in sea levels and climate, were dramatic.

    Those sessions which were linked to assignments in 2008 showed the locations as they were. An example is seen below. This session was linked to the Sydney Opera House (at sea level).

    A summary of what was seen by these remote viewers looks like this:

    In general, these remote-viewing data suggest the following types of physical changes across many of the above geographical locations by mid-2013:

    1. Impacts from what appear to be large meteors leading to tsunamis and possible volcanism
    2. Extensive and forceful flooding of coastal areas
    3. Excessive solar radiation
    4. Storms and other severe weather

    In terms of the effects of these changes on humans, these data also suggest:

    1. Massive self-organized relocation from coastal areas (refugees)
    2. The breakdown of rescue or other notable governmental functioning
    3. The breakdown of the food supply system
    4. The breakdown of the vehicular transport system
    5. Extensive loss of buildings near coasts

    A video with the specifics and details of the remote viewing project can be seen here:


    Speculation that governments are aware of these things...

    According to the Farsight Institute, there are certain events that have happened around the world that imply knowledge of this, or some other similar catastrophe in our immediate future.

    1. The U.S. Space Shuttle launched its last mission in mid-2011. At that time, NASA entirely abanded its government-funded manned spaceflight program. Given the investment that the U.S. has made in launching humans into space since the 1960s, this is odd, especially since private efforts to launch humans into space are years away, and currently unproven. It is as if the government does not anticipate being able to launch humans into space in the near future for reasons not currently stated.
    2. The Svalbard Global Seed Vault was sealed in 2011. This seed bank will allow the world to restart agriculture given a global catastrophe. The United Nations formally inspected the facility, which might seem odd for a Norwegian project. The timing of this project seems like a strange coincidence.

    3. U.S. and global debt. It is as if various governments are not expecting to have to pay back their debts, perhaps anticipating a global economic reset due to reasons not currently stated.

    4. The devaluing of the U.S. dollar seems to be a trend that will stay. Moody, Standard and Poor, and Fitch have announced that they may be devaluing the rating of U.S. Treasury bonds (see NY Times article, 15 March 2010, as well as the editorial on 20 March 2010), and there have been discussions within the United Nations of the International Monetary Fund phasing out its dependency on the U.S. dollar. The governments seem to be acting as if the U.S. dollar will be replaced as the global currency.

    5. Digging, digging is everywhere. The U.S. has no nuclear enemies, yet it is digging huge underground facilities in inhospitable regions difficult for the masses to reach. Why? On the other hand, the Chinese tend to think collectively, and China is digging extraordinary subway complexes under most of its major cities in a crash program that seems odd in terms of timing and scope. See, for example, the NY Times article by Keith Bradsher, 27 March 2009. Subways are, of course, conveniently located underground tunnels, and such tunnels could house millions of people in an emergency. Russia announced in 2011 that it is adding 5,000 new nuclear bomb shelters in Moscow, enabling it to protect all of Moscow's residents. The program is to be rushed so that it is finished in 2012. Why? Russia has no nuclear enemies. Russia's new subway systems have also been place deeper than needed so that they can be used as deep emergency shelters. Again, why? Why all these preparations, and why the rush?

    6. NASA is now predicting that the Sun may generate unprecedented solar storms for a lengthy period in 2012-13. We cannot accurately predict Earth's normal weather a week in advance, and it is by no means clear how NASA can do this with respect unprecedented weather on the Sun years in advance. They are saying that we are more dependent on vulnerable computer technology now. But we had similar dependencies in 2001 and 1990 when previous 11-year solar cycles hit. What is different about the current cycle? Some might suggest that NASA is acting as if it has some extra information that is not currently stated. [*]

    Professional remote viewers always caution that their view of future events is only one possibility. Certain key events can alter future timelines, if only we knew what these were and how to manipulate them. The Farsight Institute has discovered proof of something both amazing and hard to understand about time. As Dr. Courtney Bown said,

    "The multiple universe theory is correct or the remote viewing phenomenon works as if it is correct."



    It never ends for the 'NABS believers' to become ever more 'bedazzled' by the 'ptb disinformers and fear mongers'!

    Now where are the 'resumes' of those 'ground breaking' whistleblowers, 'reformer scientists' and pioneers for a 'New World Order'?
    Remote Viewing par excellence!?


    UBC Astronomy Linked to web hoax

    Last updated on Fri, 2012-02-10 13:10

    DON'T BE FOOLED BY THE LATEST WEB HOAX

    An unusual - and totally ridiculous - conspiracy theory has emerged on the Web connecting UBC Physics & Astronomy, the Antarctic ice shelf, and the threat of a devastating asteroid impact.

    Quoting the version of this cosmic urban myth which started circulating yesterday: "University of British Columbia Professor published an on-line article that projected an 800m asteroid would hit Antarctica in the fall of 2012. His article was on the www.phas.ubc.ca website for 2 days before it abruptly disappeared. The initial data was gathered by The Balloon-borne Large-Aperture Sub millimeter Telescope (BLAST) at McMurdo Station, Antarctica. The theorized asteroid was then tracked by Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope on Mauna Kea, which (with the Adaptive Optics Bonnette) supplies probably the sharpest images currently obtainable from the ground."

    The ONLY true parts of this statement are: (1) there is indeed a balloon-borne instrument called BLAST in which UBC is a key partner, and it does collect data over Antarctica; and (2) the Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope and its adaptive optics system do obtain superbly sharp astronomical images.

    The rest is ridiculous. BLAST cannot detect asteroids. And no one could extrapolate the orbital path of a newly discovered asteroid to predict two years in advance that it would strike Antarctica (vs. other spots on Earth). No such article ever appeared on the UBC Physics & Astronomy web site.

    This is a story on a par with the annual "Mars as big as the Full Moon" hoax that makes the rounds on the web, except that in this case, it can cause people undue alarm. The only reaction to this story should be amusement, followed by anger that some people are willing to prey on public fears and their interest in astronomy.

    Dr. Jaymie Matthews

    Professional remote viewers always caution that their view of future events is only one possibility. Certain key events can alter future timelines, if only we knew what these were and how to manipulate them. The Farsight Institute has discovered proof of something both amazing and hard to understand about time. As Dr. Courtney Bown said,

    "The multiple universe theory is correct or the remote viewing phenomenon works as if it is correct."

    It can be said from the Thuban perspective:

    "The multiple universe theory is incorrect in the sense of Unified Uni-verses embedded in a plenum of matrix spacetime separatedness, but can be formulated within a context of Quantum-Entangled Separated Uni-verses embedded within a Unified spacetime metric of Encompassment" or the remote viewing phenomenon can only work from a perspective of the logistic wavefunctional observation mode of the Cosmic Twinlogos of this encompassment."

    In other words, there exists an omni-verse comprised of 'many worlds'; where however entangled or 'phase shifted' or 'cored' uni-verses comprise those multi-verses within a cosmic envelope of the Oneness and holographic- and holofractal interconnectedness of all things.

    What many 'remote viewers' and 'channelers' and 'prophets' actually 'observe' is a 'Cosmic Story' or 'symbolic background' of archetypes and images, which are part of the 'Physical Laws of Nature' in that symbolic depiction of a 'Story of the Cosmos' and its inherent Intelligence, told to or DREAMTIMED by ITSELF. So the 'symbol' of Wormwood as a 'human civilisation destroying' comet or celestial 'harbinger of doom' is very valid as a multidimensional expression or character within the 'Dream of the Universe', wishing to reproduce itself in Multiverses to 'graduate' as an Omniverse.
    The 'doom' is however related more to the reconfiguration of the 'story dreamt and told and coauthored' in the dramas surrounding the memetypical physicalising or not from its necessitated metaphysical reality as a physical representation of the archetypes, the semiotiks and the characters, than actual physical calamity and catastrophy in the lower dimensional densified material sense {All so called physicality represents a densified form of 'higher dimensional' light in relative stasis}.
    The Director of the story of all things is the Sourcesink without space and time and matter; the Producer is the Cosmic Twin Logos in the liason between the Uranian Father-Sky-Heaven Abba and the Gaean Mother-Earth-Hell Baab and the Playwright are the 'Cosmic Inheritors', who have come to know and realise their own 'Playing of the Characters' as Actors and Actresses in the 'cosmic scripts'.

    This is the same story of nonphysicalised 'divine generations', where a FatherMother GodGoddess (YinYang) Universe Twin cannot become a GrandMotherFather without first creating its own Family as a SonDaughter Multiverse in twinships or doublets. The 'blessing' of the Cosmic Grandparent then becomes their or its 'self-ascension' from a Twin-Universe via many Multiverses into an Omniverse.
    So how many grandparents are there in the Old AdamEve stock? Would the original GodGoddess not be rather sympathetic, even a little 'cosmically jealous' of something the humans have, but often not treasure as their own cosmic inheritances and legacies?
    Are the ETs then not destined to become BOTH, grandparents and grandchildren with a graduating humanity in betwixt?



    Crazy Happy Raven de Thuban Alpha Draconis cyclops
    devakas
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    Post  devakas on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:35 am

    i am not qualified to know the twisted philosophyy by tubans. I simply know the modern science education system for bastards that are killing human race with vacines, food, cosmos lies, wars. I am glad to be not qualified to follow tubans and their prespectives as above. Vedic scripts disclose how twisted, incorrect and wrong understanding of universes, qualities and energies, goodness and ignorance are realized by tuban co. Ignorance can be applied to tubans and their dreams to understand God. Time is running and they are not allowed to understand. So they create tubes of videos where they explain God by putting in a box and creating waves of heshe she he nonsense. I am glad to be not qualified to follow them. I am glad ceridwen is not qualified too.

    here is more about The Great Evilness of Thuban

    There was a time when the being we call Lucifer was one of the greatest lights in heaven. He was dedicated to serving the Creator as head of the seraphim - the highest echelon of the angelic host.

    Unfortunately, Lucifer became increasingly jealous of the attention, love and guidance the Creator was giving to the prospering galactic human race. He felt God had placed them above the seraphim.

    Lucifer began to hate the humans and see himself as a slave to Divine Will. He desired to have free will and usurp God's kingdom. His great power and negative emotions had corrupted him.

    Lucifer began influencing others of the angelic host with his new way of thinking. One third of the angels were swayed by his twisted philosophy. He promised them all free will, should they exalt him above God. As leader of the coming mutiny, he would give them a new kingdom. He believed that with cunning schemes he could transcend God as lord of the universe, and extinct the race of galactic humanity.

    One aspect of his plan was to incarnate in 4th density as a reptilian who was to become king of the ancient Draconian Empire, which spanned much of the galaxy. The empire's headquarters was on a 4th density planet that orbited the star Thuban (also known as Alpha Draconis), in the Draco constellation. Upon assuming the throne as King Lingarak, he convinced his people that the prospering galactic humans posed a threat and needed to be wiped from existence. Many of the fallen angels had incarnated into the same race.

    more at the link
    http://www.birthofgaia.com/t172-the-great-evilness-of-thuban

    if you a full of evil you follow evil then you ask who am I?

    devakas


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    Post  devakas on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:39 am


    i also think qualified scientists are not hanging here in the mists. I could provide some realy cool links for tubans in suffer.

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    Post  Raven on Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:20 pm

    devakas wrote:
    i also think qualified scientists are not hanging here in the mists. I could provide some realy cool links for tubans in suffer.


    Oh dear, the 'truth of devakas' is breaking forth from the mists of the insecure and afraid mind of the guru delusions. You wish to see the thubans suffer their mindful ignorances? The 'cool' links from the 'Academys of the Enlightenments?' are well known to the 'evil dragons'.

    The Love of Krishna, dear devakas, where is the love from the heart and the tolerance of Swami Prabhupada, your guru of the hare hare hare - hear hear hear?

    Do you think, that you might be slightly off-topic here?


    The Great Evil of Thuban in the Serpents of Eden
    {Presented in the Spirit of 'Humour Noir' of the Dark Comedy of the never to be fall into the pits of sarcasm in a Genre of La Presentation}




    The EVIL SERPENT of THUBAN as A LIVE PRESENT

    Another Way to portray the World Logos as done by the Warriors of the Love and the Light at mortal combat with the Darkness of Creation in the Slaying of the terrible Dragons from the Depths of Hell

    Lucifer becomes Satan the Dragon


    Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 Lucifer
    There was a time when the being we call Lucifer was one of the greatest lights in heaven. He was dedicated to serving the Creator as head of the seraphim - the highest echelon of the angelic host.

    Unfortunately, Lucifer became increasingly jealous of the attention, love and guidance the Creator was giving to the prospering galactic human race. He felt God had placed them above the seraphim.

    Lucifer began to hate the humans and see himself as a slave to Divine Will. He desired to have free will and usurp God's kingdom. His great power and negative emotions had corrupted him.

    Lucifer began influencing others of the angelic host with his new way of thinking. One third of the angels were swayed by his twisted philosophy. He promised them all free will, should they exalt him above God. As leader of the coming mutiny, he would give them a new kingdom. He believed that with cunning schemes he could transcend God as lord of the universe, and extinct the race of galactic humanity.

    One aspect of his plan was to incarnate in 4th density as a reptilian who was to become king of the ancient Draconian Empire, which spanned much of the galaxy. The empire's headquarters was on a 4th density planet that orbited the star Thuban (also known as Alpha Draconis), in the Draco constellation. Upon assuming the throne as King Lingarak, he convinced his people that the prospering galactic humans posed a threat and needed to be wiped from existence. Many of the fallen angels had incarnated into the same race.

    So began the Great War, hundreds of millennia ago - remembered in history as the Orion Conflict, for its centre stage was within the Orion arm of the local galaxy. Lucifer then became known as Satan, the arch enemy of God, and one third of the angels had sided with his empire.

    Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 Draconian

    For a long time the Draconian Empire and the fallen angels fought with galactic humanity, which had amassed a large resistance - armies from other galaxies answered their call for help and joined them. Some of the dark forces eventually surrendered, but a lot still remain hidden in many places. The resistance achieved a great victory when Satan himself and many of his closest henchmen were taken into custody. Their punishment was to be quarantined in the lowest astral plane of earth, known as the bottomless pit.

    Satan and his minions managed to gain access to the material world via portals opened by human followers (satanic cults). Unable to incarnate, they can only possess people and animals. Satan has possessed many humans. One of his well-known hosts was Hitler. Through him, he tried to impose his tyrannical will upon the planet, as he did elsewhere. Fortunately he failed at that time. However, through many more hosts, his(conspiracy_theory)New World Order agenda continues.

    Satan's human followers also perform moonchild rituals, whereby babies are completely possessed by his forces. Below is a quote from a concerning these rituals:

    The Moonchild rituals are the rituals to demonize a fetus. However, the demons that are invoked are not the small ones, but very powerful ones. In working with victims of this programming, it is clear that high level demons were placed within these people at very early ages. It is believed many of them were demonized before they were born by rituals like the Moonchild rituals. Blood sacrifices and human sacrifices are always required for this level of magic.

    God gave a deadline, at which point the ultimate fate of Satan and his followers would be decided once and for all, based upon how they may have evolved since being placed in the bottomless pit.

    Unfortunately they continue to hate humans with a passion, and work toward their extinction. Especially those on earth - who are a hybridisation of all branches of humanity throughout the galaxy and beyond. After many millennia, the deadline has come and a massive showdown on the astral and material planes of earth has begun.

    It may become obvious in the near future, as the dark ones intend to reveal themselves en-masse to the world, with their human followers joining them in the Final Battle. Beyond earth, the war still rages today.
    Many star systems have been contaminated by the fighting. Some worlds destroyed and the ecosystems of others seriously compromised.



    The Dragonslayers of the Realms!

    Those young evil Dragons of Thuban are here, those verocious beasts;
    in their caves they hide a lot and plan to don their many dire feasts.
    Then when a swiftfooted and armoured dragon slayer comes along;
    the poor fiends become frightened and forgetful whereto they belong.

    The swords and knives are drawn by the warriors of honor and renown;
    never before did such gallantry prevail in the kingdoms of all then known.
    Young dragons perished one by one not knowing what evil they had done;
    So all the dragons were no more but in folklore, their memory just gone.

    Then an old wise dragon mother awoke from her long and peaceful sleep;
    this cannot continue she said to her beau; where is my children's keep?
    And Maria's beau went forth to show the slayers the folly of their ways;
    with magic words and keys of deliverance he caused them many sighs.

    Would the slayers learn who the young dragons were before when old?
    Could the slayers see themselves in the ancient wisdom of oaks so bold?
    When the nightingale sung her song of love to the elves of the moon;
    and then as the foxes gathered about to ask the wise owl, how soon?

    How long will it be, before the humans awake to remember their past?
    Slayers of their own ancestors they are in many a zest to be so vast.
    A young dragon is naught but a slayer having returned from the grave.
    They are destroying themselves and their memories, the ones so brave.

    Maria's beau found some old souls who could remember the new past.
    Many others remained steadfast in their knowing better of an older path.
    And so it continued in the common playing grounds under the sunny sky;
    until the old wise dragon father of all joined the party to give it his try.

    Tonyblue


    A piece of peace to appease - now that is a classic Susan Serafina.

    And when the dragon slayers look into the mirrors of the eXchanger,
    what do they see - they see dragons looking back at them.


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    welcome tipiray | interesting avator Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 Wink
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    Abrax,
    Can you share your thoughts on The World Tree, Níðhöggr, the eagle & Ratatoskr.

    Thank you.......
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    After numerous discussions it has been decided that the Thuban Q&A thread will be restored to the original location. After an intensive review of all the material pertaining to Thuban, it was shown that only the threads in the social group "Thuban Council" showed a violation of the guidelines.

    The Review of Abraxasinas activity at Project Avalon including that of the post in the social group "Thuban Council" warrants the ban remain in place and the thread (Q&A) he created to remain read only.

    We recognize the desire of many of our members to have this material available again and are happy to be able to do so However we do feel it is not in line with the mission of Project Avalon and therefore do not support or endorse the contents of the threads nor does Project Avalon accept responsibility for any harm, physical or otherwise that users may suffer reading this material.





    Last edited by GaiaLove; 03-09-2010 at 06:14 AM.



    Aphrodite is also Venus and the Star of the Mornings and Evenings {Revelation.2.28;22.16; 2Peter.1.19} as Lucifer, Quetzacoatl or Kukulkan of various ancient scrolls and texts of interrelated cultures. SheHe is also known as Lucifera as 'A Lucifer' and as Satanina as 'In A Satan' and as Serpentina as 'In A Serpent' as the Old Gaia encompassed by the Ouroboros, the Galactic Serpent Hunab Ku aka Milky Way aka Perseus and transforming into the New Gaia Serpentina as a StarPlanet.

    Scriptural or semantic definitive 'Proof':

    Job 38:7
    When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    Amos 5:8
    Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name:

    Revelation 2:27-29
    27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
    28And I will give him the morning star.
    29He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

    Revelation 22:15-17
    15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
    16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
    17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

    2 Peter 1:19
    We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:


    Morning Star = Evening Star = Star of the New Dawn = Venus = Aphrodite = Goddess of Love = ...
    LUCIFER=74=JESUS=MESSIAH=GOSPEL=CROSS=BEAUTY=ENERGY=SONGS=CLOUDS=... =47=TIME=JOHN=MALACHI=ISAIAH=...=ROCK=BEAST=MUM=JUDGE
    SERPENT=PRESENT=REPENTS=97=SON OF MAN = CIRCLE OF GOD =....DIY

    The human mind created SON=EVIL=48=SEX=84=LIVE=DAUGHTER LAW=111=7bin projected from within from the highest places of the human heart and soul as the Throne of God, shall revisit you, until you can harbour IT as your very own creation and as your mental children of the cosmos.

    A piece of peace to appease - now that is a classic Susan Serafina.

    And when the dragon slayers look into the mirrors of the eXchanger,
    what do they see - they see dragons looking back at them.



    Planet X | Niburu hoax - Page 7 405797_311284702240402_285112423_n
    Raven LionHeart de Hadian Draconian Empire
    Hot Raven DragonHeart: 'Be Afraid, be very afraid!' Toast


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    Post  Carol on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:42 pm

    Lordy, lordy - the dragons are in full force. And I'm not afraid. Not afraid at all.

    Raven, don't you think your a bit into the fear mongering mentality here? Tsk, tsk...


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    Post  Aquaries1111 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:52 am

    Back on Topic!

    "Alone he stretches out the Heavens and threads upon the farthest deep.
    He arrives at the Great Bear, Orion and Sirius and the constellations of the South...
    He smiles his face upon Taurus and Aries; from Taurus to Sagittarius he shall go."

    The books of Job and Amos

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    Post  Carol on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:53 am

    I think the one commonality among all of us is that each of us seeks truth and it appears that each of us has a bit of a different take on reality. This certianly makes for interesting reading.

    I will add this bit about remote viewing... who knows what timeline anyone who does this is on anymore as the timeline has consistantly been and is being manipulated by both humans and off-worlders. I've pretty much completely given up on any predictions from anyone - including myself (which I used to be pretty good at). Rather then out upon a calm sea where one's vision is far-reaching - we now dwell within the boiling crashing surf. Good luck with that.


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    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Post  lawlessline on Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:53 am









    Lawless
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    Post  Floyd on Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:53 am

    Hi Tom, nice to see an 'on topic' post again lol. Thanks.

    These youtube vids are old news. One of the purposes of this thread as was to differentiate between the hypothetical planet at the edge of the solar system and the fantastical Niburu of Sitchen and the aliens/ channelers/ fear mongers.

    The hypothetical planet has shown no sign of having an orbit that would bring it close to earth a la Niburu. The most recent astronomer to hypothesise about a planet in the Kuiper belt is Rodney Gomes but he is not hypothesising it is Niburu and his evidence is inclusive and not accepted by all scientists. He is certainly not suggesting it is called Niburu and populated by aliens which it inst lol. Some Niburuists have jumped on the back of the Gomes theory which Im sure he would be horrified to hear.

    Because there is no evidence for Niburu whatsoever, Niburuists often latch on to these astronomical hypotheses to validate the Niburu of Sitchen and the Channelers which is contradictory as whatever evidence there may be for a this hypothetical body, it does not follow any of the orbits or stories created by these parties or the dubious entities being channeled etc. It is impossible for them to be the same thing even if Niburu did exist which it doesnt.

    Lets be clear about this, the postulated Tyche or Planet X is not Niburu and has nothing in common with it whatsoever apart from it being the last chance saloon for believers in Sitchen's Niburu. Sitchens orbits are impossible yet they have nothing in common with this postulated body. They are absolutely not the same item. One is fictional and one is an astronomical hypothesis.

    It would help if Niburists talked in terms of Niburu when attempting to prove Sitchens planet rather than PX or Tyche which is not Niburu at all.

    It is still possible that Tyche and Planet X do not exist but as for Niburu
    It just aint there.



    Below are two scientific articles relating to the article in the Independent.

    Thanks for your post .

    F


    Tyche, it's not Nibiru (and probably not even real)
    http://astroblogger.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/tyche-its-not-nibiru-and-probably-not.html

    No, there’s no proof of a giant planet in the outer solar system
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/02/14/no-theres-no-proof-of-a-giant-planet-in-the-outer-solar-system/

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    Post  lawlessline on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:23 pm

    Floyd wrote:Hi Tom, nice to see an 'on topic' post again lol. Thanks.

    These youtube vids are old news. One of the purposes of this thread as was to differentiate between the hypothetical planet at the edge of the solar system and the fantastical Niburu of Sitchen and the aliens/ channelers/ fear mongers.

    The hypothetical planet has shown no sign of having an orbit that would bring it close to earth a la Niburu. The most recent astronomer to hypothesise about a planet in the Kuiper belt is Rodney Gomes but he is not hypothesising it is Niburu and his evidence is inclusive and not accepted by all scientists. He is certainly not suggesting it is called Niburu and populated by aliens which it inst lol. Some Niburuists have jumped on the back of the Gomes theory which Im sure he would be horrified to hear.

    Because there is no evidence for Niburu whatsoever, Niburuists often latch on to these astronomical hypotheses to validate the Niburu of Sitchen and the Channelers which is contradictory as whatever evidence there may be for a this hypothetical body, it does not follow any of the orbits or stories created by these parties or the dubious entities being channeled etc. It is impossible for them to be the same thing even if Niburu did exist which it doesnt.

    Lets be clear about this, the postulated Tyche or Planet X is not Niburu and has nothing in common with it whatsoever apart from it being the last chance saloon for believers in Sitchen's Niburu. Sitchens orbits are impossible yet they have nothing in common with this postulated body. They are absolutely not the same item. One is fictional and one is an astronomical hypothesis.

    It would help if Niburists talked in terms of Niburu when attempting to prove Sitchens planet rather than PX or Tyche which is not Niburu at all.

    It is still possible that Tyche and Planet X do not exist but as for Niburu
    It just aint there.



    Below are two scientific articles relating to the article in the Independent.

    Thanks for your post .

    F


    Tyche, it's not Nibiru (and probably not even real)
    http://astroblogger.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/tyche-its-not-nibiru-and-probably-not.html

    No, there’s no proof of a giant planet in the outer solar system
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/02/14/no-theres-no-proof-of-a-giant-planet-in-the-outer-solar-system/


    Thanks for the encouragement F, I will try and post more useless info this as possible.

    As for Sitchen, I have spent my life believing it was WD who came up with that whole thing. The solar mechanics do not allow for Nirubooboo crap like that. But lets be fair to history.
    Could it be that what the Sumarians experienced was a tale about a comet impact? As everyone tells great big down the pub, like Liverpool getting anywhere past 5th place in the Premiership,could of changed the comet impact to we were attacked by a planet that brought fire to the earth. I am not sure the summarians are all that, as with most cultures of known history, set against our present situation. I am not saying that it was never a higher developed culture on this planet at some point. But if the sumarians still here running the show? Please don't tell me they are now in some blood line. Coz in that case, why they hiding? There plain stupidity of a past era? I say don't fret my friends come and join the fun, don't care what you done it is the future that counts.

    Back to the videos though. I posted more a way of saying this has been going on for sooooooooooooo long that it is lost to the realms of WD. Hoax or not bring it on.

    Love to you floyd you big red cop fan.

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    Post  Carol on Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:30 pm

    I think we all are aware something happened in the past based on the stories of various events of floods and such. Where the mystery lies - is a guess as to what caused some of these earth changing events. Comet, astroid, pole shift, solar flare, CME? And everyone pretty much accepts that what has occurred in the past can occur again. Think Carrington Event Solar storm of 1859. This should be a wake-up call given all of the sun's current activity and the huge ozone hole that looks like it is there to stay that stretches across the equator zone subjecting everything under it to huge daily doses of solar radiation.


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    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Post  lawlessline on Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:30 pm

    Carol wrote:I think we all are aware something happened in the past based on the stories of various events of floods and such. Where the mystery lies - is a guess as to what caused some of these earth changing events. Comet, astroid, pole shift, solar flare, CME? And everyone pretty much accepts that what has occurred in the past can occur again. Think Carrington Event Solar storm of 1859. This should be a wake-up call given all of the sun's current activity and the huge ozone hole that looks like it is there to stay that stretches across the equator zone subjecting everything under it to huge daily doses of solar radiation.

    I agree with that totally and things are a foot. The polar shift in the slipping of the land masses is a hard to swallow one. Simply because we are actually doing what that says. We are floating on a chamber of magma in turn sitting on a void of plasma field. Thats the very short explanation. So the land masses are floating at present. If you follow the video it gives the inner core magnetic field over the last 10 000 yrs. If you look carefully the cross show the polar shift about 6 000 until 2 000yrs ago. So the inner pole shift has already happened. This does not mean it is due tomorrow. To work through the system it takes along time. The inner shift just puts the second layer on level 2 and the inner core has to go through the entire process before the second layer goes to 3 in total to move from inner inversion to outer inversion it takes very roughly 180 000 years. It can go through to 220 000 years. Just like solar cycles that variations take place. But we are over due that is for sure.






    But Carol I am with you on that. easy to poke at others when we don't put our own crds on the table.

    Lawless
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