Should I continue to work and perpetuate the slave/control system or should I quit?

I have a dilemma. Should I continue to work and perpetuate the slave/control system or should I quit?

And, if anyone quits working with this ethos, how would they survive afterwards with little to no support from government handouts? Where does one go from here?

My personal position is not that I don't want to work, it is more like I don't want to work to support the system.

Even 'Self employment' is subject to taxes and the government taking 40% of your effort, your sweat, your energy, your thinking and your creativity. Why should anyone in their right mind want to allow this? We don't work for the Government, yet here we have to give our efforts away. To rub salt into the wounds, we are to pay upto a further 20% of our efforts on Sales Taxes on most anything we buy. Effectively we come away with around 40% of our own labour especially if we would like to exchange it for other goods and services and the other 60% is given away to the government.

How about working for free? How feasible is it to do this and hope to find someone that has something you want and that they would need of your efforts?
Where would you go to find a community that operates in this manner?
Can this be taxed - and how?

Many questions and so few answers.

Any comments would be appreciated.

I have been thinking about that too lately. I do not want to contribute to that system but at the same time it is so hard to break free from it. The major problem is that there are very few people who around us who think along the same lines. One would have to find a community with like-minded people, move there and contribute accordingly. Sometimes to become self-sustained one needs a lot of money at the beginning.

Hello eMonkey I see your reflections go along mine these days .
This money system we are in has obviously proven unworkable
and unethical. It's driving humanity in a pit .
Although we may have chosen a job that is of value to all the
exchange we get from it in money and that the most part goes to
our governments is then spent in areas that aren't enhancing society
at large.In that way each of us that is working is contributing
to the downfall of a civilization that is choking itself as well
as it's environment.

MP3 was the first one to bring this to the table in a great thread
he opened : http://www.themistsofavalon.net/worldwide-sustainable-communities-f16/new-economics-or-no-economics-t218.htm

you'll find lots of infos there on the gifting economy as well as links
to associations already practicing it .
It's workable , it's proven successfull, it's completely tax free.
I believe it's something to go for .

Love from me
mudra

Without wanting to comment on your observations and apparent understanding of the material drama I would say: what does your heart tell you that you should be doing?

If you can't hold a reliable conversation with your higher self (via your heart) then:

1) Don't worry, a lot of people can't either (but many of them are learning and getting better at it)
2) I recommend playing the game for a little while longer and spending the time working on that conversation

Following your heart is hard sometimes. It can cause a smashing of old illusory structures and in many cases separation. It can be a lot of emotional "hard knocks" for a while and then the chaos passes as a new life emerges.

John..

PS: I have a hunch that you already started doing this... Good luck !

Emonkey,

A very difficult situation to deal with. Easier if you have no kids etc.

Firstly I would say that you have to use the sytems money but withdraw from the system. This is the only way at the moment.

Then you can start to work for free. But I think we all know that if everyone doesn't do that then it is very hard, but not impossible.

This site can give you ideas, may not your futur but help with Ideas.

http://www.wwoof.org/

I also have an american friend who builds dry stone walls. He does it all over the world. A very lovely man in his 50's I think. But the people help with his payment of displacement and he goes a long way.

But Anchor was right that is a real heart one. Listen to what you have to do to keep the people around you safe and then see what you can do??

Not an easy thing. The best of luck and love to you my friend.

t

Oh crap, I have opened a can of worms for myself..

burgundia wrote:I have been thinking about that too lately. I do not want to contribute to that system but at the same time it is so hard to break free from it. The major problem is that there are very few people who around us who think along the same lines. One would have to find a community with like-minded people, move there and contribute accordingly. Sometimes to become self-sustained one needs a lot of money at the beginning.

Burgundia, I think we have reached the 100th monkey in this line of thinking however, from the research I had done on communities, I did not like what I saw. i.e. more control structure. They had rules as long as your arm that you must follow. I don't want rules anymore other than natural law and common sense. So the communities can wait. That's not to say all communities are that way, it's just I have not yet found what I am looking for.

If you want to live off grid, yes, it will take some start-up investment - sadly, I have not nearly enough assets to do this with.

mudra wrote:Hello eMonkey I see your reflections go along mine these days .
This money system we are in has obviously proven unworkable
and unethical. It's driving humanity in a pit .
Although we may have chosen a job that is of value to all the
exchange we get from it in money and that the most part goes to
our governments is then spent in areas that aren't enhancing society
at large.In that way each of us that is working is contributing
to the downfall of a civilization that is choking itself as well
as it's environment.

MP3 was the first one to bring this to the table in a great thread
he opened : http://www.themistsofavalon.net/worldwide-sustainable-communities-f16/new-economics-or-no-economics-t218.htm

Mudra, thanks for pointing the way to MP3's thread - wow - he/she really nails it down well. I had not seen this before, I am wondering if it was reconstructed from another forum.. Plenty of new food for thought on the table there. I had known most of this but MP3 put's a new light on things and sees things from a different perspective - refreshing


Whilst going through some links on that thread, I did find vids on YouTube about a guy who is living with no money and a small Eco-Village in London. Erm, I am not sure that I am yet ready to go out in the middle of a freezing night, breaking into premises to yank stuff out of a Dumpster that the supermarkets throw out. Or living in what can be seen as less than desirable conditions in an eco village - dang - I mean, where do I plug in my hairdryer

Anchor wrote:Without wanting to comment on your observations and apparent understanding of the material drama I would say: what does your heart tell you that you should be doing?

If you can't hold a reliable conversation with your higher self (via your heart) then:

1) Don't worry, a lot of people can't either (but many of them are learning and getting better at it)
2) I recommend playing the game for a little while longer and spending the time working on that conversation

Following your heart is hard sometimes. It can cause a smashing of old illusory structures and in many cases separation. It can be a lot of emotional "hard knocks" for a while and then the chaos passes as a new life emerges.

John..

PS: I have a hunch that you already started doing this... Good luck !

Anchor, you are so observant - have you been peeking - hehe?
Yes indeed I have already started, but having no job currently and having deliberately stayed away from slavery, I find myself at a crossroads of sorts.

No, I have no conversations with my higher self. As much as I try - "nothing" comes the answer. However, I do get synchronicities' but it's hard to tell what the message is, who the messenger is and who was behind it. I can tell you - I have had some bizarre doozy events happen too.

Following my heart got me into the mess I find myself in now. Do I continue to dig a deeper hole or chuck the shovel away?

lawlessline wrote:Emonkey,

A very difficult situation to deal with. Easier if you have no kids etc.

Firstly I would say that you have to use the sytems money but withdraw from the system. This is the only way at the moment.

Then you can start to work for free. But I think we all know that if everyone doesn't do that then it is very hard, but not impossible.

This site can give you ideas, may not your futur but help with Ideas.

http://www.wwoof.org/

I also have an american friend who builds dry stone walls. He does it all over the world. A very lovely man in his 50's I think. But the people help with his payment of displacement and he goes a long way.

But Anchor was right that is a real heart one. Listen to what you have to do to keep the people around you safe and then see what you can do??

Not an easy thing. The best of luck and love to you my friend.

t

Lawlessline, yup - dropping of TPTB's radar is not easy - tell me - I have been trying for 20 months now.
When you do that, what little you have in backup - disappears into thin air in trying to survive on the sidelines and not wanting to play the game.

I already work for free and give stuff away but little to nothing comes back. So the Universe is not reciprocating - hmm, why is that - it must be keeping track of who is naughty and who is nice.

Thanks for the link, I shall check it out and thanks for the wishes.

I hope that this thread can be an inspiration to others too and get them thinking of "getting in the shower" to rid themselves of 3D trash.

Emonkey,

Can I be so personal as to ask what you do and if you have family etc? I have dipped off the radar now for nigh on 5 years and before that I was only there slightly.

As for security, well say good bye to alot of things and say hello to alot aswell. Bob Dylan says that to live outside the law you have to be honest. It is the only thing that can save you. So I have taken that onboard for the past 10 yrs and I am finally getting there.

We are never help as much as when we help ourselves. If you help your self, then the world will return the help to you. I guess it is a case of invest in your slf before others will invest in you. Doing work for free is a lovely idea that you should learn and then move back slightly to the centre ground. Then you will find yourself in a position where people will offer the exchange. Doing things for free doesn't help others in most cases. The majority of time the person has to do the thing themselves to know the true value of what they have done.

I really do hope you make it my friend. I believe only in that way of life now. The more we are the better the Human race will be. The collective will ony do things which is beneficial to all.

Lets get the thing rolling.

t

lawlessline wrote:Emonkey,

Can I be so personal as to ask what you do and if you have family etc? I have dipped off the radar now for nigh on 5 years and before that I was only there slightly.

As for security, well say good bye to alot of things and say hello to alot aswell. Bob Dylan says that to live outside the law you have to be honest. It is the only thing that can save you. So I have taken that onboard for the past 10 yrs and I am finally getting there.

We are never help as much as when we help ourselves. If you help your self, then the world will return the help to you. I guess it is a case of invest in your slf before others will invest in you. Doing work for free is a lovely idea that you should learn and then move back slightly to the centre ground. Then you will find yourself in a position where people will offer the exchange. Doing things for free doesn't help others in most cases. The majority of time the person has to do the thing themselves to know the true value of what they have done.

I really do hope you make it my friend. I believe only in that way of life now. The more we are the better the Human race will be. The collective will ony do things which is beneficial to all.

Lets get the thing rolling.

t

Lawlessline, I would like to be modest and lets just say I was in the Aviation engineering field.

I did find a website with expats hereabouts in Blue Danube Country that are offering to do, share and exchange stuff, so let's see, steady as she goes.

Yes, I agree, we should be helping each other, but the distance between us all presents problems in need of solutions for anything practical on a everyday needs and survival level and for which I have no solution other than to uproot - which for me is easy enough.

We are pioneers in a way, but still 'following on in the footsteps' and 'standing on the shoulders' of others.

Thats the thing. The moment you are in a job that is part of the system, it is hard to seperzte the 2. When you live in a developed country, like myself, then there is always part of you that will be tied into the system. This is not due to the voluntary of the people involved, just the rest of the world around. Paying for that autopart, or dentist. You cann't get round that. But you can work in a cash society so you get involved only when needs must. The rest you do by yourself.

You then become just a blip on their screen, rather than a major statistic.

Please keep us updated on what you come across as I will from my end. It may help people understand the big leaps that society has to take. Therfore, understanding that the change will ot be a smooth one if it has to be done quickly.

t

eMonkey wrote:No, I have no conversations with my higher self. As much as I try - "nothing" comes the answer. However, I do get synchronicities' but it's hard to tell what the message is, who the messenger is and who was behind it. I can tell you - I have had some bizarre doozy events happen too.

Following my heart got me into the mess I find myself in now. Do I continue to dig a deeper hole or chuck the shovel away?

I hope this isn't too cryptic.

I see some inconsistency here. You can't be following your heart and not having "the conversation". Perhaps you just don't see it yet? For me following your heart is very much a mode (one of many) of conversation with your higher-self - a living conversation, where each phrase and nuance passes with each moment and action.

As you go on, the synchronicities will happen to you so much that you simply find them comforting and often highly amusing artefacts of living in the flow.

They can be affirmative (rarely otherwise).

If you find you are struggling with some goal and lots of difficulties present themselves it can be an indicator you are perhaps going off or against the flow. Discerning this from the important archetypal challenges is something that takes practise and will entail the occasional error (from which you will easily recover once recognized as such).

You will find that things annoy you less and you get less wound up as you start to see things in their larger context.

You are allowed to have doubts and work through them.

It is all good.

Life is good.

Anchor wrote:

eMonkey wrote:No, I have no conversations with my higher self. As much as I try - "nothing" comes the answer. However, I do get synchronicities' but it's hard to tell what the message is, who the messenger is and who was behind it. I can tell you - I have had some bizarre doozy events happen too.

Following my heart got me into the mess I find myself in now. Do I continue to dig a deeper hole or chuck the shovel away?

I hope this isn't too cryptic.

I see some inconsistency here. You can't be following your heart and not having "the conversation". Perhaps you just don't see it yet? For me following your heart is very much a mode (one of many) of conversation with your higher-self - a living conversation, where each phrase and nuance passes with each moment and action.

As you go on, the synchronicities will happen to you so much that you simply find them comforting and often highly amusing artefacts of living in the flow.

They can be affirmative (rarely otherwise).

If you find you are struggling with some goal and lots of difficulties present themselves it can be an indicator you are perhaps going off or against the flow. Discerning this from the important archetypal challenges is something that takes practise and will entail the occasional error (from which you will easily recover once recognized as such).

You will find that things annoy you less and you get less wound up as you start to see things in their larger context.

You are allowed to have doubts and work through them.

It is all good.

Life is good.

A bit like windsurfing? Getting the sail just right for what you want to do. Anchor, well put.
This is what I was trying to say about getting out there and coming back to the middle ground. So as anchor say each experience is a confirmation and a new source of energy for the following adventure, which is life. He is right, life is good.

Maybe a good starting point is the acceptance of certain limitations that are placed on you by the outside world. Once you know them you don't have to think about them for the moment. Sort out the other stuff that is more immediate. II guess making your bed that will become you new constant in the future that you don't have to worry about and concentrate on the old constants, that is the world outside your conversation. ????

Is that about right Anchor?

t

I have one friend who is always saying if all else fails she will move to a zendo and eat rice. She did live at Zen Center for 7 years and is now living with us.

So just know opportunities exist if one is open and looks at alternatives. I also knew another woman who just up and did a backpack and took off around the world with very little. She too had a very interesting life. And we have other Mists members trekking around the globe, one in Peru as of the moment.

lawlessline wrote:A bit like windsurfing? Getting the sail just right for what you want to do. Anchor, well put.

Thanks. Yes I see this, it is a bit like sailing.

lawlessline wrote:Maybe a good starting point is the acceptance of certain limitations that are placed on you by the outside world.

There is a fine line to tread here. I would never want to be seen as recommending acquiescence - if something is wrong and needs fixing, by all means use your mojo to get the job done - even if you do have to do a bit of the Shiva thing and deal with the fallout afterwards.

On the other hand, I think you were recommending being pragmatic, seeing the game for what it is and employing every morsel of wisdom at your disposal to navigate it properly.

lawlessline wrote:Once you know them you don't have to think about them for the moment. Sort out the other stuff that is more immediate. II guess making your bed that will become you new constant in the future that you don't have to worry about and concentrate on the old constants

If I read it right you are essentially describing how it gets easier with practise, because once you have overcome some basic obstacles, then you are essentially getting the hang of things and climb ever higher, seeking even more profound truth.

lawlessline wrote:that is the world outside your conversation.

This is everything to me. I posit that there are two things I need to worry about: me and everything else. Thus the world around me is essentially a mirror that enables me to perceive that which is within myself. Anything that provokes a concious reaction in my mind is a hint that I need to look more at how I really see that. The other way in which the conversation happens is during moments of inspiration - finally if I ask a genuine question that I realise I need the answer to I normally either get the answer dumped in my head, or the world does some freaky little synchronicity dance to ram a point home that answers the question and normally has me either laughing at the cosmic humour of it or crying with joy at the overwhelming love one sometimes observes.

Hello, you have already taken the first steps, because you are already thinking about what to do. May I ask some simple questions? I know this is an overused expression, but, what are your passions? Take your passions and add your skills, and there may be an independent way of supporting a life system. I couldn't wait to get out of a position with a major investment banking firm. The wall street gang and who they serve were so incredibly scary...so I know about the push to detach yourself. You may have several interests that you would expect could be a form of exchange. Can you write? Are you a photographer? You might have to stay in your present field, but you could be an independent consultant or reporter. These are just examples...

I was always interested in alternative healing, and recently have found a place to work, in trade for health care. It certainly does not pay for food, but it's a start. I feel really well, and I am with others who can be the key for further support.

Let me remind you that people like me are fitting into the contribution society quite smoothly. We will have to "get over ourselves" as the financial world shifts, hopefully for the better. I worked for a major major company and saw what behaviour wealth can create. There is no prestige in that situation, only certain death. I'd rather live a simple life now, away from a big city. Who cares if we step back and away. It may save your life. The simplest laborer is sometimes the wisest man.

It's been a while since I updated this thread but lateley I've decided to get back into the slave system.

Why? well in my adventures (some good one, some bad) I've finally come to the conclusion that I would be better off for this moment in time getting a job - again. This is because, I listened to the horror stories of the economy and constricted human rights, shtf blah blah blah and wished that I had not listened.  

I took some of this on-board and did embark on a journey for answers and not to stay in the system. I did that for 4 years or so, and now, I see the world did not collapse [sic] the way it was allegedly supposed to etc. The world did not end in Dec 2012, not that I was expecting it to..
The B.S. continues..  when will it all end ? I lived the dream of separation from the system, which was much harder in practice and believe me this is no joke, my hair is now almost white with all the stress I went through trying support myself.

For the last two weeks I've been researching very hard for a number of reasons burning the candle at both ends. Some of this to carry on with my journey and some for the approaching job interviews, where I needed to brush up on my knowledge lost over these lost years.

So, been there, done that, bought the T-Shirt and now it's time to get real.

That's where I'm at people. Getting back into the Matrix, cos that illusionary steak sure is tempting as opposed to an empty bowl.

"It's been a while since I updated this thread but lateley I've decided to get back into the slave system."
Thats suggesting you have been out of it.


"Getting back into the Matrix, cos that illusionary steak sure is tempting as opposed to an empty bowl."
There is no escaping it as your testimony tells.  There are different levels of withdrawal from it. You can practice liberty, be in touch with nature, meditation, prayer, etc.. But even these ideas can still be within the Matrix. It depends on how you are Grounded.

Godspeed Emonkey

  Thanks Megamud.

Maybe it will help, eMonkey, to think a little differently about the system ie not that you are a slave to it but that YOU are USING IT to support you living the rest of your life in whichever way you choose to that doesn't bow down to the system in any way.  

Also that the tax you pay is doing what it was designed to do in the first place to do ie helping to support society as a whole so that ALL are better off.  I know that ethic has been corrupted by those at the top of the food chain, but it must do your heart good to know that there are those struggling through hard times that your taxes do help as they were meant to.

Yes, we may have to 'play the game' to live within this world, but we can do it with our eyes open and our hearts in the right place, using the time, place and money that we earn from it to help us achieve the type of life that we wish to live helping others along the way, maybe within the workplace itself.  I believe that ultimately we are 'judged' on what we do with the resources we have as individuals and how clearly we see through the conditioning the PTW try to keep us deluded by.........not being sucked in by it as you, so obviously, are not.

I'd also like to finish by saying that you have my admiration for giving living your dream a damn good shot.  Truly 'walking your talk' is much more than many have the courage to do.

 

Sanicle wrote:
I'd also like to finish by saying that you have my admiration for giving living your dream a damn good shot.  Truly 'walking your talk' is much more than many have the courage to do.

 

Yes, I think you understand my plight a little, sanicle.. I have of course only touched the tip of the iceburg on the hard times I've endured I can tell you. I will never publicly mention them, but these eyes have witnessed poverty close, up front and personal. I have suffering along with them, at the hands of big government in a number of countries.

From what I saw along the way on my journey is that, for those really in need, it was not the taxes you paid that helped these people out. It was donations, mainly through church organisations and the efforts of the charity workers that I saw as the prime movers in helping people. The government be damned. Not one individual I met had been helped by the government, it was all charities and the Red-Cross.

Now I'm wiser for the experience and yes, helping others is something I had been doing even when I had nothing to give.. I gave it all. Now I need to look after No.1 for a while before I help again.

Thanks very much for your comment.

  Cheers

I've been thinking in terms of This Solar System = Purgatory Incorporated = Ra Deal. I have no idea if things have to be this way, or not. I am more moralistic regarding what one does with the money they make -- rather than how the money is made. I know that sounds hypocritical (and it IS) -- but I am trying to temper my idealism with pragmatism. I have no idea what the true state of affairs are -- so I'm in the process of shutting-down -- watching rather than talking. It seems as if Humanity sold-out way too quickly and easily -- and that we've been paying dearly for thousands of years. That's my story -- and I'm sticking to it -- for now. Now I have to get back to work, so that I can Look Real Good -- and Make Lots of Money -- by the use of Ethical-Deception and Moral-Ambiguity. Just kidding -- or am I??

Whatever game we are in, we Are always, and therefore we are precious to life.
I believe what we make out of the experience is more important than it's content.
But if you can choose one that brings you more happiness and less trouble
than go for it sister.

Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view

Obi Wan Kenobi  

 

Love from me
mudra

eMonkey wrote: I have of course only touched the tip of the iceburg on the hard times I've endured I can tell you. I will never publicly mention them, but these eyes have witnessed poverty close, up front and personal. I have suffering along with them, at the hands of big government in a number of countries.

From what I saw along the way on my journey is that, for those really in need, it was not the taxes you paid that helped these people out. It was donations, mainly through church organisations and the efforts of the charity workers that I saw as the prime movers in helping people. The government be damned. Not one individual I met had been helped by the government, it was all charities and the Red-Cross.

I'd like to thank you for helping to dispel more of my 'Princess and the Pea' mentality eMonkey, come of being born into middle-class Australia no doubt. I have to say though that I'm glad I was, given the alternative type of life that you allude to those you visited being forced to live, and you with them while there. But I'm also grateful that you appear to have been born in similar circumstances to myself so that you were able to leave such horror, return and hopefully heal yourself, unlike those others for who may have to live their whole lives like that. 

I have to say too that it was heartening to read that the churches and charities are still given donations there and thus able to practice what they preach and truly help. These are the ones we often don't hear about in the news, away from those at higher levels that we do so often read so many bad things about and react to negatively.

All told, I'm with you Oxy........spirituality tempered by pragmatism sounds like the wiser way to go, a more balanced way.

Thanks again for sharing eMonkey and I truly hope your healing process proceeds swiftly.

Nice reflection ( below ) your thread led me to .
Thank You eMonkey  



The Zen of Global Transformation

the story of a quest

Nasrudin O’Shah: 


The quest

The needed change will come from people with changed minds, not from people with new programs.
—Daniel Quinn, The Story of B

Seeker: How can I find the path?
Teacher: Learn to walk, and the path will find you.

For some time now I have been on a quest. This is a quest that many others are on as well, millions of them. We are all seeking answers to the same questions: What can we do to save the world from disaster? How can people learn to live in harmony with one another and with nature? How can we free ourselves from oppressive governments and institutions?

Those of us on the quest have tried many things. We have studied, written, debated, and protested. We have formed movements and political parties, published books, and we have occasionally achieved victories. But in the end, if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that the tide of history continues toward global disaster, and rushes always faster.

Like many other seekers, from time to time, I felt that I had found "the solution". In some sense I don’t think those solutions were wrong, and many of the other solutions I’ve seen would probably work as well—if only enough people would agree on one of them!

Agreement, it seems, is the Holy Grail of change. If only that mysterious Grail could be found we would have the power to do what now seems impossible. But how do we move toward agreement? What is the path? Debate doesn’t seem to work—it seems to lead only to more debate. Public education doesn’t seem to work—there are too many teachers with too many conflicting messages. The obvious paths to agreement seem to lead nowhere useful. And yet agreement, in some sense, must happen before anything else can.

Sometimes, when a long search proves fruitless, you must stop and do nothing. You must empty your mind, stop trying, and wait for some kind of inspiration. If you do this, then sometimes an answer appears that is surprisingly simple, one which has been right under your nose all the while. Suddenly you can see what you have been seeking.

I have something to share with you that is an answer and at the same time is no answer. It is everything and it is nothing. It is so simple that it would mean nothing if I simply told you what I have found. We must retrace the quest together, visiting the places where things of value can be found.

Let us move on to the first part of our quest. We are looking for the Holy Grail of agreement. Let us look in a place where reaching agreement appears to be the main theme and activity. Let us examine a group process known as Dynamic Facilitation.

scroll down the page and read on:  http://www.quaylargo.com/Productions/ZenTrans.html#top

http://www.quaylargo.com/Transformation/

Love from me
mudra

I recognise many truths in those words..

Thank you Mudra, I shall have a deeper read of this after my mornin cuppa

 from me