+12
Vidya Moksha
mudra
Ashera
bobhardee
ClearWater
Jenetta
Micjer
Sanicle
Chris
Swanny
orthodoxymoron
burgundia
16 posters
Covid 1984- A Global 9/11
burgundia- Posts : 5520
Join date : 2010-04-09
Location : Poland
Vidya Moksha- Posts : 1301
Join date : 2010-04-17
Location : on the road again :)
I dont have a source for this. But its worth a read for sure !
In the last 3–5 days, a mountain of anecdotal evidence has come out of NYC, Italy, Spain, etc. about COVID-19 and characteristics of patients who get seriously ill. It’s not only piling up but now leading to a general field-level consensus backed up by a few previously little-known studies that we’ve had it all wrong the whole time. Well, a few had some things eerily correct (cough Trump cough), especially with Hydroxychloroquine with Azithromicin, but we’ll get to that in a minute.
There is no ‘pneumonia’ nor ARDS. At least not the ARDS with established treatment protocols and procedures we’re familiar with. Ventilators are not only the wrong solution, but high pressure intubation can actually wind up causing more damage than without, not to mention complications from tracheal scarring and ulcers given the duration of intubation often required…
They may still have a use in the immediate future for patients too far to bring back with this newfound knowledge, but moving forward a new treatment protocol needs to be established so we stop treating patients for the wrong disease.
The past 48 hours or so have seen a huge revelation: COVID-19 causes prolonged and progressive hypoxia (starving your body of oxygen) by binding to the heme groups in hemoglobin in your red blood cells. People are simply desaturating (losing o2 in their blood), and that’s what eventually leads to organ failures that kill them, not any form of ARDS or pneumonia. All the damage to the lungs you see in CT scans are from the release of oxidative iron from the hemes, this overwhelms the natural defenses against pulmonary oxidative stress and causes that nice, always-bilateral ground glass opacity in the lungs. Patients returning for re-hospitalization days or weeks after recovery suffering from apparent delayed post-hypoxic leukoencephalopathy strengthen the notion COVID-19 patients are suffering from hypoxia despite no signs of respiratory ‘tire out’ or fatigue.
Here’s the breakdown of the whole process, including some ELI5-level cliff notes. Much has been simplified just to keep it digestible and layman-friendly.
Your red blood cells carry oxygen from your lungs to all your organs and the rest of your body. Red blood cells can do this thanks to hemoglobin, which is a protein consisting of four “hemes”. Hemes have a special kind of iron ion, which is normally quite toxic in its free form, locked away in its center with a porphyrin acting as it’s ‘container’. In this way, the iron ion can be ‘caged’ and carried around safely by the hemoglobin, but used to bind to oxygen when it gets to your lungs.
When the red blood cell gets to the alveoli, or the little sacs in your lungs where all the gas exchange happens, that special little iron ion can flip between FE2+ and FE3+ states with electron exchange and bond to some oxygen, then it goes off on its little merry way to deliver o2 elsewhere.
Here’s where COVID-19 comes in. Its glycoproteins bond to the heme, and in doing so that special and toxic oxidative iron ion is “disassociated” (released). It’s basically let out of the cage and now freely roaming around on its own.
This is bad for two reasons:
1) Without the iron ion, hemoglobin can no longer bind to oxygen. Once all the hemoglobin is impaired, the red blood cell is essentially turned into a Freightliner truck cab with no trailer and no ability to store its cargo.. it is useless and just running around with COVID-19 virus attached to its porphyrin. All these useless trucks running around not delivering oxygen is what starts to lead to desaturation, or watching the patient’s spo2 levels drop. It is INCORRECT to assume traditional ARDS and in doing so, you’re treating the WRONG DISEASE. Think of it a lot like carbon monoxide poisoning, in which CO is bound to the hemoglobin, making it unable to carry oxygen. In those cases, ventilators aren’t treating the root cause; the patient’s lungs aren’t ‘tiring out’, they’re pumping just fine. The red blood cells just can’t carry o2, end of story. Only in this case, unlike CO poisoning in which eventually the CO can break off, the affected hemoglobin is permanently stripped of its ability to carry o2 because it has lost its iron ion. The body compensates for this lack of o2 carrying capacity and deliveries by having your kidneys release hormones like erythropoietin, which tell your bone marrow factories to ramp up production on new red blood cells with freshly made and fully functioning hemoglobin. This is the reason you find elevated hemoglobin and decreased blood oxygen saturation as one of the 3 primary indicators of whether the XXXX is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.
2) That little iron ion, along with millions of its
friends released from other hemes, are now floating through your blood freely. As I mentioned before, this type of iron ion is highly reactive and causes oxidative damage. It turns out that this happens to a limited extent naturally in our bodies and we have cleanup & defense mechanisms to keep the balance. The lungs, in particular, have 3 primary defenses to maintain “iron homeostasis”, 2 of which are in the alveoli, those little sacs in your lungs we talked about earlier. The first of the two are little macrophages that roam around and scavenge up any free radicals like this oxidative iron. The second is a lining on the walls (called the epithelial surface) which has a thin layer of fluid packed with high levels of antioxidant molecules.. things like abscorbic acid (AKA Vitamin C) among others. Well, this is usually good enough for naturally occurring rogue iron ions but with COVID-19 running rampant your body is now basically like a progressive state letting out all the prisoners out of the prisons… it’s just too much iron and it begins to overwhelm your lungs’ countermeasures, and thus begins the process of pulmonary oxidative stress. This leads to damage and inflammation, which leads to all that nasty stuff and damage you see in CT scans of COVID-19 patient lungs. Ever noticed how it’s always bilateral? (both lungs at the same time) Pneumonia rarely ever does that, but COVID-19 does…
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
— — — — — — — — — — — — -
Once your body is now running out of control, with all your oxygen trucks running around without any freight, and tons of this toxic form of iron floating around in your bloodstream, other defenses kick in. While your lungs are busy with all this oxidative stress they can’t handle, and your organs are being starved of o2 without their constant stream of deliveries from red blood cell’s hemoglobin, and your liver is attempting to do its best to remove the iron and store it in its ‘iron vault’. Only its getting overwhelmed too. It’s starved for oxygen and fighting a losing battle from all your hemoglobin letting its iron free, and starts crying out “help, I’m taking damage!” by releasing an enzyme called alanine aminotransferase (ALT). BOOM, there is your second of 3 primary indicators of whether the XXXX is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.
Eventually, if the patient’s immune system doesn’t fight off the virus in time before their blood oxygen saturation drops too low, ventilator or no ventilator, organs start shutting down. No fuel, no work. The only way to even try to keep them going is max oxygen, even a hyperbaric chamber if one is available on 100% oxygen at multiple atmospheres of pressure, just to give what’s left of their functioning hemoglobin a chance to carry enough o2 to the organs and keep them alive. Yeah we don’t have nearly enough of those chambers, so some fresh red blood cells with normal hemoglobin in the form of a transfusion will have to do.
The core point being, treating patients with the iron ions stripped from their hemoglobin (rendering it abnormally nonfunctional) with ventilator intubation is futile, unless you’re just hoping the patient’s immune system will work its magic in time. The root of the illness needs to be addressed.
Best case scenario? Treatment regimen early, before symptoms progress too far.
Hydroxychloroquine (more on that in a minute, I promise) with Azithromicin has shown fantastic, albeit critics keep mentioning ‘anecdotal’ to describe the mountain, promise and I’ll explain why it does so well next. But forget straight-up plasma with antibodies, that might work early but if the patient is too far gone they’ll need more. They’ll need all the blood: antibodies and red blood cells. No help in sending over a detachment of ammunition to a soldier already unconscious and bleeding out on the battlefield, you need to send that ammo along with some hemoglobin-stimulant-magic so that he can wake up and fire those shots at the enemy.
The story with Hydroxychloroquine
All that hilariously misguided and counterproductive criticism the media piled on chloroquine (purely for political reasons) as a viable treatment will now go down as the biggest Fake News blunder to rule them all. The media actively engaged their activism to fight ‘bad orange man’ at the cost of thousands of lives. Shame on them.
How does chloroquine work? Same way as it does for malaria. You see, malaria is this little parasite that enters the red blood cells and starts eating hemoglobin as its food source. The reason chloroquine works for malaria is the same reason it works for COVID-19 — while not fully understood, it is suspected to bind to DNA and interfere with the ability to work magic on hemoglobin. The same mechanism that stops malaria from getting its hands on hemoglobin and gobbling it up seems to do the same to COVID-19 (essentially little snippets of DNA in an envelope) from binding to it. On top of that, Hydroxychloroquine (an advanced descendant of regular old chloroquine) lowers the pH which can interfere with the replication of the virus. Again, while the full details are not known, the entire premise of this potentially ‘game changing’ treatment is to prevent hemoglobin from being interfered with, whether due to malaria or COVID-19.
No longer can the media and armchair pseudo-physicians sit in their little ivory towers, proclaiming “DUR so stoopid, malaria is bacteria, COVID-19 is virus, anti-bacteria drug no work on virus!”. They never got the memo that a drug doesn’t need to directly act on the pathogen to be effective. Sometimes it’s enough just to stop it from doing what it does to hemoglobin, regardless of the means it uses to do so.
Anyway, enough of the rant. What’s the end result here?
First, the ventilator emergency needs to be re-examined. If you’re putting a patient on a ventilator because they’re going into a coma and need mechanical breathing to stay alive, okay we get it. Give ’em time for their immune systems to pull through. But if they’re conscious, alert, compliant — keep them on O2. Max it if you have to. If you HAVE to inevitably ventilate, do it at low pressure but max O2. Don’t tear up their lungs with max PEEP, you’re doing more harm to the patient because you’re treating the wrong disease.
Ideally, some form of treatment needs to happen to:
Inhibit viral growth and replication. Here plays CHQ+ZPAK+ZINC or other retroviral therapies being studies. Less virus, less hemoglobin losing its iron, less severity and damage.
Therapies used for anyone with abnormal hemoglobin or malfunctioning red blood cells.
Blood transfusions. Whatever, I don’t know the full breadth and scope because I’m not a physician. But think along those lines, and treat the real disease. If you’re thinking about giving them plasma with antibodies, maybe if they’re already in bad shape think again and give them BLOOD with antibodies, or at least blood followed by plasma with antibodies.
Now that we know more about how this virus works and affects our bodies, a whole range of options should open up."
Solar rays high in the atmosphere convert O2 to O3. In the upper atmosphere, rays from the Sun break a normal oxygen molecule into two separate oxygen atoms. Another oxygen molecule then picks up one of these atoms to form an ozone molecule.
Although O3 has dangerous effects, yet researchers believe it has many therapeutic effects. Ozone therapy has been utilized and heavily studied for more than a century. Its effects are proven, consistent, safe and with minimal and preventable side effects.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312702/…
https://youtu.be/ECLD4Dv0vps
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24772873/
https://youtu.be/Lbfxh3jIZZU
https://youtu.be/R_ZqMQlGNc0
https://youtu.be/PFQSXB5p_vQ
http://www.edskilling.com/photongenie.html
In the last 3–5 days, a mountain of anecdotal evidence has come out of NYC, Italy, Spain, etc. about COVID-19 and characteristics of patients who get seriously ill. It’s not only piling up but now leading to a general field-level consensus backed up by a few previously little-known studies that we’ve had it all wrong the whole time. Well, a few had some things eerily correct (cough Trump cough), especially with Hydroxychloroquine with Azithromicin, but we’ll get to that in a minute.
There is no ‘pneumonia’ nor ARDS. At least not the ARDS with established treatment protocols and procedures we’re familiar with. Ventilators are not only the wrong solution, but high pressure intubation can actually wind up causing more damage than without, not to mention complications from tracheal scarring and ulcers given the duration of intubation often required…
They may still have a use in the immediate future for patients too far to bring back with this newfound knowledge, but moving forward a new treatment protocol needs to be established so we stop treating patients for the wrong disease.
The past 48 hours or so have seen a huge revelation: COVID-19 causes prolonged and progressive hypoxia (starving your body of oxygen) by binding to the heme groups in hemoglobin in your red blood cells. People are simply desaturating (losing o2 in their blood), and that’s what eventually leads to organ failures that kill them, not any form of ARDS or pneumonia. All the damage to the lungs you see in CT scans are from the release of oxidative iron from the hemes, this overwhelms the natural defenses against pulmonary oxidative stress and causes that nice, always-bilateral ground glass opacity in the lungs. Patients returning for re-hospitalization days or weeks after recovery suffering from apparent delayed post-hypoxic leukoencephalopathy strengthen the notion COVID-19 patients are suffering from hypoxia despite no signs of respiratory ‘tire out’ or fatigue.
Here’s the breakdown of the whole process, including some ELI5-level cliff notes. Much has been simplified just to keep it digestible and layman-friendly.
Your red blood cells carry oxygen from your lungs to all your organs and the rest of your body. Red blood cells can do this thanks to hemoglobin, which is a protein consisting of four “hemes”. Hemes have a special kind of iron ion, which is normally quite toxic in its free form, locked away in its center with a porphyrin acting as it’s ‘container’. In this way, the iron ion can be ‘caged’ and carried around safely by the hemoglobin, but used to bind to oxygen when it gets to your lungs.
When the red blood cell gets to the alveoli, or the little sacs in your lungs where all the gas exchange happens, that special little iron ion can flip between FE2+ and FE3+ states with electron exchange and bond to some oxygen, then it goes off on its little merry way to deliver o2 elsewhere.
Here’s where COVID-19 comes in. Its glycoproteins bond to the heme, and in doing so that special and toxic oxidative iron ion is “disassociated” (released). It’s basically let out of the cage and now freely roaming around on its own.
This is bad for two reasons:
1) Without the iron ion, hemoglobin can no longer bind to oxygen. Once all the hemoglobin is impaired, the red blood cell is essentially turned into a Freightliner truck cab with no trailer and no ability to store its cargo.. it is useless and just running around with COVID-19 virus attached to its porphyrin. All these useless trucks running around not delivering oxygen is what starts to lead to desaturation, or watching the patient’s spo2 levels drop. It is INCORRECT to assume traditional ARDS and in doing so, you’re treating the WRONG DISEASE. Think of it a lot like carbon monoxide poisoning, in which CO is bound to the hemoglobin, making it unable to carry oxygen. In those cases, ventilators aren’t treating the root cause; the patient’s lungs aren’t ‘tiring out’, they’re pumping just fine. The red blood cells just can’t carry o2, end of story. Only in this case, unlike CO poisoning in which eventually the CO can break off, the affected hemoglobin is permanently stripped of its ability to carry o2 because it has lost its iron ion. The body compensates for this lack of o2 carrying capacity and deliveries by having your kidneys release hormones like erythropoietin, which tell your bone marrow factories to ramp up production on new red blood cells with freshly made and fully functioning hemoglobin. This is the reason you find elevated hemoglobin and decreased blood oxygen saturation as one of the 3 primary indicators of whether the XXXX is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.
2) That little iron ion, along with millions of its
friends released from other hemes, are now floating through your blood freely. As I mentioned before, this type of iron ion is highly reactive and causes oxidative damage. It turns out that this happens to a limited extent naturally in our bodies and we have cleanup & defense mechanisms to keep the balance. The lungs, in particular, have 3 primary defenses to maintain “iron homeostasis”, 2 of which are in the alveoli, those little sacs in your lungs we talked about earlier. The first of the two are little macrophages that roam around and scavenge up any free radicals like this oxidative iron. The second is a lining on the walls (called the epithelial surface) which has a thin layer of fluid packed with high levels of antioxidant molecules.. things like abscorbic acid (AKA Vitamin C) among others. Well, this is usually good enough for naturally occurring rogue iron ions but with COVID-19 running rampant your body is now basically like a progressive state letting out all the prisoners out of the prisons… it’s just too much iron and it begins to overwhelm your lungs’ countermeasures, and thus begins the process of pulmonary oxidative stress. This leads to damage and inflammation, which leads to all that nasty stuff and damage you see in CT scans of COVID-19 patient lungs. Ever noticed how it’s always bilateral? (both lungs at the same time) Pneumonia rarely ever does that, but COVID-19 does…
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
— — — — — — — — — — — — -
Once your body is now running out of control, with all your oxygen trucks running around without any freight, and tons of this toxic form of iron floating around in your bloodstream, other defenses kick in. While your lungs are busy with all this oxidative stress they can’t handle, and your organs are being starved of o2 without their constant stream of deliveries from red blood cell’s hemoglobin, and your liver is attempting to do its best to remove the iron and store it in its ‘iron vault’. Only its getting overwhelmed too. It’s starved for oxygen and fighting a losing battle from all your hemoglobin letting its iron free, and starts crying out “help, I’m taking damage!” by releasing an enzyme called alanine aminotransferase (ALT). BOOM, there is your second of 3 primary indicators of whether the XXXX is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.
Eventually, if the patient’s immune system doesn’t fight off the virus in time before their blood oxygen saturation drops too low, ventilator or no ventilator, organs start shutting down. No fuel, no work. The only way to even try to keep them going is max oxygen, even a hyperbaric chamber if one is available on 100% oxygen at multiple atmospheres of pressure, just to give what’s left of their functioning hemoglobin a chance to carry enough o2 to the organs and keep them alive. Yeah we don’t have nearly enough of those chambers, so some fresh red blood cells with normal hemoglobin in the form of a transfusion will have to do.
The core point being, treating patients with the iron ions stripped from their hemoglobin (rendering it abnormally nonfunctional) with ventilator intubation is futile, unless you’re just hoping the patient’s immune system will work its magic in time. The root of the illness needs to be addressed.
Best case scenario? Treatment regimen early, before symptoms progress too far.
Hydroxychloroquine (more on that in a minute, I promise) with Azithromicin has shown fantastic, albeit critics keep mentioning ‘anecdotal’ to describe the mountain, promise and I’ll explain why it does so well next. But forget straight-up plasma with antibodies, that might work early but if the patient is too far gone they’ll need more. They’ll need all the blood: antibodies and red blood cells. No help in sending over a detachment of ammunition to a soldier already unconscious and bleeding out on the battlefield, you need to send that ammo along with some hemoglobin-stimulant-magic so that he can wake up and fire those shots at the enemy.
The story with Hydroxychloroquine
All that hilariously misguided and counterproductive criticism the media piled on chloroquine (purely for political reasons) as a viable treatment will now go down as the biggest Fake News blunder to rule them all. The media actively engaged their activism to fight ‘bad orange man’ at the cost of thousands of lives. Shame on them.
How does chloroquine work? Same way as it does for malaria. You see, malaria is this little parasite that enters the red blood cells and starts eating hemoglobin as its food source. The reason chloroquine works for malaria is the same reason it works for COVID-19 — while not fully understood, it is suspected to bind to DNA and interfere with the ability to work magic on hemoglobin. The same mechanism that stops malaria from getting its hands on hemoglobin and gobbling it up seems to do the same to COVID-19 (essentially little snippets of DNA in an envelope) from binding to it. On top of that, Hydroxychloroquine (an advanced descendant of regular old chloroquine) lowers the pH which can interfere with the replication of the virus. Again, while the full details are not known, the entire premise of this potentially ‘game changing’ treatment is to prevent hemoglobin from being interfered with, whether due to malaria or COVID-19.
No longer can the media and armchair pseudo-physicians sit in their little ivory towers, proclaiming “DUR so stoopid, malaria is bacteria, COVID-19 is virus, anti-bacteria drug no work on virus!”. They never got the memo that a drug doesn’t need to directly act on the pathogen to be effective. Sometimes it’s enough just to stop it from doing what it does to hemoglobin, regardless of the means it uses to do so.
Anyway, enough of the rant. What’s the end result here?
First, the ventilator emergency needs to be re-examined. If you’re putting a patient on a ventilator because they’re going into a coma and need mechanical breathing to stay alive, okay we get it. Give ’em time for their immune systems to pull through. But if they’re conscious, alert, compliant — keep them on O2. Max it if you have to. If you HAVE to inevitably ventilate, do it at low pressure but max O2. Don’t tear up their lungs with max PEEP, you’re doing more harm to the patient because you’re treating the wrong disease.
Ideally, some form of treatment needs to happen to:
Inhibit viral growth and replication. Here plays CHQ+ZPAK+ZINC or other retroviral therapies being studies. Less virus, less hemoglobin losing its iron, less severity and damage.
Therapies used for anyone with abnormal hemoglobin or malfunctioning red blood cells.
Blood transfusions. Whatever, I don’t know the full breadth and scope because I’m not a physician. But think along those lines, and treat the real disease. If you’re thinking about giving them plasma with antibodies, maybe if they’re already in bad shape think again and give them BLOOD with antibodies, or at least blood followed by plasma with antibodies.
Now that we know more about how this virus works and affects our bodies, a whole range of options should open up."
Solar rays high in the atmosphere convert O2 to O3. In the upper atmosphere, rays from the Sun break a normal oxygen molecule into two separate oxygen atoms. Another oxygen molecule then picks up one of these atoms to form an ozone molecule.
Although O3 has dangerous effects, yet researchers believe it has many therapeutic effects. Ozone therapy has been utilized and heavily studied for more than a century. Its effects are proven, consistent, safe and with minimal and preventable side effects.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312702/…
https://youtu.be/ECLD4Dv0vps
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24772873/
https://youtu.be/Lbfxh3jIZZU
https://youtu.be/R_ZqMQlGNc0
https://youtu.be/PFQSXB5p_vQ
http://www.edskilling.com/photongenie.html
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13402
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
Wow!! Vidya!! Just Wow!! I read the article quickly, and now I'll read it again slowly!! Don't tell me YOU wrote this!! You seemed to know a lot about masks in our previous conversation!! Forgive me, but I kept imagining 'V' in 'V for Vendetta' speaking the words!! Do you mind if I include your post in my USSS thread?? I usually just include quoted posts with the quote-boxes in my massive posts, but I'll wait for your permission on this one. Wow!! Vidya!! Just Wow!!
Swanny wrote:This is shocking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLXY_yqBgDE&feature=emb_logo
https://thinkingcriticalcare.com/2020/03/28/covid-clinical-discussion-w-cameron-kyle-sidell-nyc-ed-icu-doc-in-the-trenches-foamed/
Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell is an ED-ICU Doc at Maimonides in New York, currently under the COVID fire. He put up an inflammatory tweet yesterday which caused a lot of different reactions, because it clearly challenged the widespread even if only recent belief that one should intubate the COVID patients quite early, usually much earlier than one would in typical respiratory failure:
BTW, I missed your post, Carol!! That was 'hitting below the belt'!!
Carol wrote:If you read toilet-paper Oxy, it may help clean out that negative thinking.
What Would 'Q' Do??
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Vidya Moksha- Posts : 1301
Join date : 2010-04-17
Location : on the road again :)
Oxy, I didnt write the above post and I dont know who did. I am trying to find the source. post it wherever you want..I havent followed up any of the links at the bottom of my post yet, I posted the whole piece as I found it.
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13402
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
Thank-you Vidya. Swanny posted the above video, which is supportive of the article you posted. I find the following video from 'V for Vendetta' to be absolutely chilling. I'm sure it has no application to our present crisis, but one never knows for sure...and I can imagine 'V' communicating that article to the Inspector!! 'V' = 'Q'?? 'Inspector' = 'Orthodoxymoron'??
Micjer- Posts : 1684
Join date : 2010-04-29
Location : Canada
Thanks Oxy and Vidya for the above information. Very interesting indeed.
Ventilators actually make the disease worse, he is saying.
The doctor says it reminds him of someone being dropped off on top of Mt Everest and can't catch their breath. Should be for treating someone that has altitude sickness?
This is interesting also
Ventilators actually make the disease worse, he is saying.
The doctor says it reminds him of someone being dropped off on top of Mt Everest and can't catch their breath. Should be for treating someone that has altitude sickness?
This is interesting also
mudra- Posts : 23210
Join date : 2010-04-09
Age : 69
Location : belgium
Thank you Vidhya
It sure is intersting stuff.
Along with Dr Kaufman's research that Swanny posted here above its good to have some new viewpoints of interest on covid19.
( see my germs thread )
Micjer I have got an ozone generator at home as well as a bottle of Oxy Rich. It seems my inner radar may have perceived something in advance.
The ozone generator has proved handy to keep the apples and lemons I had longer. I also use the ozonated water I prepare to clean surfaces and cupboards in the ktchen. No need for any other sanitizer any longer.
You can use it to disinfect a room too but I have not done so yet.
I got a cheap one, less than 50 euros but it had good reviews and is working well.
At the onset of the Corona crisis I bought a few bottles of hand sanitizer.
I quickly came to the conclusion it was poisoning me. My hands became sore after a week or so, my nose was running. This all disappeared with using ozonated water or plain water and soap.
Love from me
It sure is intersting stuff.
Along with Dr Kaufman's research that Swanny posted here above its good to have some new viewpoints of interest on covid19.
( see my germs thread )
Micjer I have got an ozone generator at home as well as a bottle of Oxy Rich. It seems my inner radar may have perceived something in advance.
The ozone generator has proved handy to keep the apples and lemons I had longer. I also use the ozonated water I prepare to clean surfaces and cupboards in the ktchen. No need for any other sanitizer any longer.
You can use it to disinfect a room too but I have not done so yet.
I got a cheap one, less than 50 euros but it had good reviews and is working well.
At the onset of the Corona crisis I bought a few bottles of hand sanitizer.
I quickly came to the conclusion it was poisoning me. My hands became sore after a week or so, my nose was running. This all disappeared with using ozonated water or plain water and soap.
Love from me
Last edited by mudra on Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
mudra- Posts : 23210
Join date : 2010-04-09
Age : 69
Location : belgium
You shouldn't have removed that last post Oxy. I think you were in a funny mood 
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13402
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
Thank-you mudra. I'm always in a funny mood, but few tolerate my dry and dark humor. I mostly post and delete on the threads of others. I can't resist posting, but after I copy and paste the post onto my USSS thread, I tend to delete the original post. Most of my posts aren't appropriate for the other threads. I'm probably better off as a 'Lone Nut'. I suspect that I don't fit anywhere in the universe, which is why I'm probably a 'Galactic Happy Wanderer' aka 'Solar System Analyst'. Just a Hypothesis. I'm using a coffee-filter for a face-mask by attaching it to my face with duct-tape!! The tape seals the edge of the filter all the way around so the coronavirus can't get in or out!! Unfortunately, the filter is probably N25!! I'm waiting for my N95 mask order to arrive!! Here is a more sophisticated coffee-filter mask!!mudra wrote:You shouldn't have removed that last post Oxy. I think you were in a funny mood
Swanny- Posts : 1182
Join date : 2010-04-13
Location : The Shire of Wilts
Don't forget.... You do need to be able to breath through the mask 
ClearWater- Posts : 439
Join date : 2010-04-09
Age : 49
Location : Minnesota
In this inspiring and uplifting short video, Moojibaba offers us great encouragement during the coronavirus pandemic.
He shares that this challenging time is a powerful opportunity for humanity to come together, to put aside our superficial differences and use this time to begin to change and to wake up to our true nature.
"Within you, there is a place of real stillness and peace, a depth and a beauty. God bless you that this coronavirus will do its work but come to an end and we will continue to grow as human beings and indeed maybe even come to create a very wonderful world.”
mudra- Posts : 23210
Join date : 2010-04-09
Age : 69
Location : belgium
Vidya Moksha wrote:.
....
so, trust in Allah, but tie up your camel. I have started taking daily doses of Vit C, Vit D3 and Vit K
Check at foodspring.be Vidhya they have ZN:Mg vegan 100 caps with high biological availability.
Love from me
mudra
mudra- Posts : 23210
Join date : 2010-04-09
Age : 69
Location : belgium
All social gatherings banned under new law | THE BIG STORY | The Straits Times
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ys4XAyww_OY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ys4XAyww_OY
burgundia- Posts : 5520
Join date : 2010-04-09
Location : Poland
It looks like the so called pandemia will be over soon. There are already selling tickets for flights from Poland to Italy and back in May..check other destinations.
Swanny- Posts : 1182
Join date : 2010-04-13
Location : The Shire of Wilts
Just been told by a mate that most Asian countries allegedly have recovered and are back In mass production. They are buying up shares on the stock markets
Found this
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/in-asia-bucking-the-global-coronavirus-lockdown-trend
Found this
As the coronavirus pandemic sparks global lockdowns, life has continued comparatively unhindered in places like Taiwan, South Korea and Hong Kong after their governments and citizens took decisive early action against the unfolding crisis.
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/in-asia-bucking-the-global-coronavirus-lockdown-trend
Sanicle- Posts : 2228
Join date : 2011-02-28
Location : Melbourne, Australia
Yeah well it's getting worse in Victoria Australia! They said they were going to get tougher over Easter with the lockdown laws and they weren't kidding. 
As I said, I live on the outskirts of Melbourne and when I went outside I could see this bright red light in the sky which then fluttered off. On closer inspection I found out it's a police drone patrolling the main shopping strip a few hundred yards up the road. With a microphone to chastise people and all!
Never seen the like here ......... at ALL!
but 
As I said, I live on the outskirts of Melbourne and when I went outside I could see this bright red light in the sky which then fluttered off. On closer inspection I found out it's a police drone patrolling the main shopping strip a few hundred yards up the road. With a microphone to chastise people and all!
Never seen the like here ......... at ALL!
but
mudra- Posts : 23210
Join date : 2010-04-09
Age : 69
Location : belgium
Sanicle wrote:Yeah well it's getting worse in Victoria Australia! They said they were going to get tougher over Easter with the lockdown laws and they weren't kidding.
As I said, I live on the outskirts of Melbourne and when I went outside I could see this bright red light in the sky which then fluttered off. On closer inspection I found out it's a police drone patrolling the main shopping strip a few hundred yards up the road. With a microphone to chastise people and all!
Never seen the like here ......... at ALL!
Welcome to the club Sanicle.
We are really at an interesting point of the game.
Anything is possible from now on in this little span of time.
I think here is the vista, the breach between the worlds.
There is a potential for numerous scenarios and outcomes imho.
And new opportunities to seize.
I am not declaring checkmate.
Love from me
mudra
Sanicle- Posts : 2228
Join date : 2011-02-28
Location : Melbourne, Australia
Me neither Mudra. I've decided that I'm not going anywhere near a doctor either if I happen to get sick. I'll just treat it like a normal cold or flu.
Haha, my initial thought was that it might be one of Swanny's mates, the red light was so big. But, of course, that silly thought quickly passed. I still don't know if that would be a good or bad thing if it did happen. Unless Swanny's behind the joystick of course.
Haha, my initial thought was that it might be one of Swanny's mates, the red light was so big. But, of course, that silly thought quickly passed. I still don't know if that would be a good or bad thing if it did happen. Unless Swanny's behind the joystick of course.
mudra- Posts : 23210
Join date : 2010-04-09
Age : 69
Location : belgium
The humor window 
Let's stay ZEn
The new rules in Belgium ...
Let's try to see clearly ...
1. You can't leave the house in principle, but if you need to, you can still.
2. Masks are useless, but maybe they should be worn, it can save you.
3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.
4. one should not go to hospitals, unless one has to go, same thing for doctors, one should only go there in an emergency ON CONDITION that you are not sick (?!?)
5. This virus is deadly, but not too scary, except that sometimes it will be a global disaster.
6. Gloves won't help, but they can help anyway.
7. Everyone must stay at HOME, but it is important to GO OUT
8. There will be plenty of food in the supermarket, but there are plenty of things missing if you go there at the end of the day but you shouldn't go there in the morning.
9. The virus has no effect on children except those on whom it has ...
10. The animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February, when no one was testing yet, but this cat yes?!?
11. You will have many symptoms if you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without symptoms. Ah? In short ???
12. In order not to be sick, you must eat well and play sports, but eat despite everything you have on hand and it is better not to go out, well yes, but no ...
13. It is better to take the air, but you will be very frowned upon if you are going to take the air, and especially do not go to the parks, or do so without sitting, except that now, you can if you are old (at what age are we old?!?) but not too long or pregnant (but not old).
14. You can't go to the elderly, but you have to take care of them and bring groceries and medicine.
15. You cannot go out if you are sick, but you can go to the pharmacy. For caregivers, even with temperature, you can work, come on, no more than 38 ° C ... 37.9 it's okay, unless you are not a caregiver.
16. You can order the delivery of prepared meals that may have been prepared by people who were not wearing masks or gloves. But you have to let your shopping decontaminate for 3 hours outside.
17. Each disturbing article or interview begins with the words "I don't want to panic, but ...".
18. You cannot see your elderly mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an elderly taxi driver.
19. You can walk with a friend but not with your family if they do not live under the same roof
20. But you are told that walking with the right "social distance" is not dangerous so why can you not walk with other friends or family (one at a time) if you are outside at the good distance?
21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, no, six, no, didn't we say hours, maybe it's days? But it needs a humid environment. Oh no, actually not necessarily.
22. The virus remains in suspension in the air finally no, or yes, perhaps, especially in a closed room, in one hour a patient can contaminate ten, so if it could be all our children have already been infected at school before they close?
23. We count the number of dead but we do not know how many people are infected, since so far we have tested only those who were "almost dead" to find out if that was what they were going to die .. .
24. We don't have any treatment except that there may be one, which is apparently not dangerous unless we take too much (which is the case with all meds, right?)
25. We should remain confined until the disappearance of the virus but it will only disappear if we reach collective immunity and therefore on condition that it circulates ... and for that we must no longer be confined. ..
In short, everything is clear except that nothing is clear, we are told of a confinement of 15 days then perhaps six months, we read and hear everything and its opposite to the news and on the networks but ... we have to STAY ZEN friends, it is necessary for our immune system. So go outside, breathe - if you can - and watch the spring bloom ...
and above all keep your sense of humor ...
We understood, WE DO NOT CONTROL ANYTHING, except one's state of mind and one's attitude: Keep calm and BE HAPPY (despite everything) !!!
Love you friends !!!
Let's stay ZEn
The new rules in Belgium ...
Let's try to see clearly ...1. You can't leave the house in principle, but if you need to, you can still.
2. Masks are useless, but maybe they should be worn, it can save you.
3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.
4. one should not go to hospitals, unless one has to go, same thing for doctors, one should only go there in an emergency ON CONDITION that you are not sick (?!?)
5. This virus is deadly, but not too scary, except that sometimes it will be a global disaster.
6. Gloves won't help, but they can help anyway.
7. Everyone must stay at HOME, but it is important to GO OUT
8. There will be plenty of food in the supermarket, but there are plenty of things missing if you go there at the end of the day but you shouldn't go there in the morning.
9. The virus has no effect on children except those on whom it has ...
10. The animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February, when no one was testing yet, but this cat yes?!?
11. You will have many symptoms if you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without symptoms. Ah? In short ???
12. In order not to be sick, you must eat well and play sports, but eat despite everything you have on hand and it is better not to go out, well yes, but no ...
13. It is better to take the air, but you will be very frowned upon if you are going to take the air, and especially do not go to the parks, or do so without sitting, except that now, you can if you are old (at what age are we old?!?) but not too long or pregnant (but not old).
14. You can't go to the elderly, but you have to take care of them and bring groceries and medicine.
15. You cannot go out if you are sick, but you can go to the pharmacy. For caregivers, even with temperature, you can work, come on, no more than 38 ° C ... 37.9 it's okay, unless you are not a caregiver.
16. You can order the delivery of prepared meals that may have been prepared by people who were not wearing masks or gloves. But you have to let your shopping decontaminate for 3 hours outside.
17. Each disturbing article or interview begins with the words "I don't want to panic, but ...".
18. You cannot see your elderly mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an elderly taxi driver.
19. You can walk with a friend but not with your family if they do not live under the same roof
20. But you are told that walking with the right "social distance" is not dangerous so why can you not walk with other friends or family (one at a time) if you are outside at the good distance?
21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, no, six, no, didn't we say hours, maybe it's days? But it needs a humid environment. Oh no, actually not necessarily.
22. The virus remains in suspension in the air finally no, or yes, perhaps, especially in a closed room, in one hour a patient can contaminate ten, so if it could be all our children have already been infected at school before they close?
23. We count the number of dead but we do not know how many people are infected, since so far we have tested only those who were "almost dead" to find out if that was what they were going to die .. .
24. We don't have any treatment except that there may be one, which is apparently not dangerous unless we take too much (which is the case with all meds, right?)
25. We should remain confined until the disappearance of the virus but it will only disappear if we reach collective immunity and therefore on condition that it circulates ... and for that we must no longer be confined. ..
In short, everything is clear except that nothing is clear, we are told of a confinement of 15 days then perhaps six months, we read and hear everything and its opposite to the news and on the networks but ... we have to STAY ZEN friends, it is necessary for our immune system. So go outside, breathe - if you can - and watch the spring bloom ...
and above all keep your sense of humor ...
We understood, WE DO NOT CONTROL ANYTHING, except one's state of mind and one's attitude: Keep calm and BE HAPPY (despite everything) !!!
Love you friends !!!
Sanicle- Posts : 2228
Join date : 2011-02-28
Location : Melbourne, Australia
Haha, love the list Mudra. And it about sums it up. Some of the rules are just sooooooo stupid and frustrating. 
Love you too my friend.
It's cool we can all stay zen together like this. 
Love you too my friend.
It's cool we can all stay zen together like this.
Micjer- Posts : 1684
Join date : 2010-04-29
Location : Canada
Insert a little humour
Swanny- Posts : 1182
Join date : 2010-04-13
Location : The Shire of Wilts
Pleiadian Light Force (P.L.F)
are now taking orders.
Please list your needs below and we'll sort out a delivery slot
As you can appreciate we are extremely busy at the moment so don't expect your delivery for at least 7 Quarkons
Currently out of stock of toilet rolls
are now taking orders.
Please list your needs below and we'll sort out a delivery slot
As you can appreciate we are extremely busy at the moment so don't expect your delivery for at least 7 Quarkons
Currently out of stock of toilet rolls
Sanicle- Posts : 2228
Join date : 2011-02-28
Location : Melbourne, Australia
OUT OF TOILET PAPER?!?!? Sigh. Is this a Universal problem then?
Hmm
Hey maybe that cream worked for Vidya and he got rid of his hemorrhoids. You sure he's not still lurking around somewhere?
Hmm
Hey maybe that cream worked for Vidya and he got rid of his hemorrhoids. You sure he's not still lurking around somewhere?
Swanny- Posts : 1182
Join date : 2010-04-13
Location : The Shire of Wilts
Sanicle wrote:OUT OF TOILET PAPER?!?!? Sigh. Is this a Universal problem then?
Hmm
Only Galactic
Nope haven't seen him
Vidya Moksha- Posts : 1301
Join date : 2010-04-17
Location : on the road again :)
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