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Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
This thread has been a mental and spiritual workout - but I don't feel as though I have this figured out at all - or even that this tempest in a teapot has done me, or anyone, any good. My suggestions have been intended as arrows, rather than periods. If I were sitting in on the meetings of whoever really controls this solar system, I'm sure I would get a rather unpleasant education. I'd probably just sit there, with my head in my hands, wishing that I had never desired any insider information and forbidden knowledge. I guess my problem is that I want everything to work out well for everyone, everywhere - all of the time. This just isn't reality, is it? So what should I do - especially when very few will even talk to me at all - let alone getting into really deep discussions regarding solar system governance? Most days, I just feel like crying, and I often do. Actually, that sounds like an excellent idea. Maybe I'll read from 'The Holy Tablets', listen to Sacred Classical Music, and cry. It doesn't get much better than that - for me anyway. I wish I were kidding. It's enough to make Tom Dooley hang down his head, and cry...
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
What do you think of the concept of a Reincarnating Archangel - namely Michael/Adam/Moses/Horus/Jesus/Michelangelo/et al - being defeated and ruled over by a Reptilian Queen of Heaven / God of This World - who rules the Roman Catholic Church,the Monarchy - and really the whole world, or even the solar system - with an Iron Fist? What do you think about the concept of 2,000 years of Sede Vacante, and 2,000 years of Anti-Christ, or In Place of Christ, and actually In Opposition to Christ? If true, what would this do to Canon Law? What would this do to the Latin Mass? How should the geo-politco-religio Roman Catholic Church be properly governed? What would happen if Jesus were running the show in Rome? I realize that these are fighting words - and they are really just more random thoughts and speculation. I have suggested the possibility of a New World Order or a New Solar System consisting of:
1. The Teachings of Jesus.
2. The U.S. Constitution.
3. The Latin Mass.
4. The Sacred Classical Music.
5. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System.
I have further suggested that, even if this is undesirable or impossible, that it should be thought through exhaustively - on a long-term basis. The issues which would inevitably emerge really need to be addressed. This is very tricky business - and I think I'm too close to this, and too burned-out, to properly evaluate all of the implications and ramifications. I would like to know what the Pope, the College of Cardinals, and the Jesuits really think about which direction the church should progress. There is no clean and neat way to deal with the legion problems connected with the church facing modernity. There's going to be big trouble - no matter what is changed, or not changed. We are facing a very big storm - in a very small boat. Didn't Pope John Paul I desire a focus on Jesus and Christ-Likeness? It seems to me that I read this in 'Murder in the Vatican' by Lucien Gregoire. I'd like to know what Pat Buchanan would think about my five-point monstrosity!? 'Right From the Beginning' gives some clues. The Teachings of Jesus would dominate doctrinally. The U.S. Constitution would dominate governmentally. The Latin Mass and the Sacred Classical Music would dominate liturgically. Some have suggested that the New World Order = The Kingdom of God = The Roman Catholic Church. That five-point bombshell would radically alter a New World Order, which some say is really the Old World Disorder, which has been in existence for thousands of years - in one form or another. Once again, I am cheating, by trying to hijack something which is already established. I admit it! Like Sun Tzu - I wish to win without fighting - but I don't necessarily wish to win by playing fair!!! This whole subject is very frightening to me - and I feel like I'm walking through a mine-field. I'm very afraid to take the next step - while waiting for the other shoe to drop. Try reading the following books side by side:
1. 'Let the Word Go Forth' (The Speeches, Statements, and Writings of John F. Kennedy - 1947 to 1963).
2. 'The Keys of This Blood' by Malachi Martin.
3. 'The Desire of Ages' by Ellen White.
4. 'The Federalist Papers'.
This is just an experiment. Don't take this too seriously. I'm not a seasoned scholar. I'm just a completely ignorant fool. Raven was right. But I am trying to entertain myself with a combination of reality and fantasy. There is no reward for doing so - other than seeing fleeting flashes of forbidden truth, from time to time. Once again, if you walk in my moccasins, don't expect to be happy. You need to understand this, up-front. It's a really strange space to be in. I just want to keep experiencing possible truth - without really doing much of anything with it. It's sort of dumb, in a way, but I keep hoping that it will do someone some good, at some point in the future. Hope springs eternal. I guess I'm trying to get myself up to speed with those who run the solar system. I realize that this is nearly impossible to do, without actually being one of those who really run the solar system! I also keep thinking that if I were one of those individuals, that I would mostly be a question-asking observer. I like to watch...
1. The Teachings of Jesus.
2. The U.S. Constitution.
3. The Latin Mass.
4. The Sacred Classical Music.
5. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System.
I have further suggested that, even if this is undesirable or impossible, that it should be thought through exhaustively - on a long-term basis. The issues which would inevitably emerge really need to be addressed. This is very tricky business - and I think I'm too close to this, and too burned-out, to properly evaluate all of the implications and ramifications. I would like to know what the Pope, the College of Cardinals, and the Jesuits really think about which direction the church should progress. There is no clean and neat way to deal with the legion problems connected with the church facing modernity. There's going to be big trouble - no matter what is changed, or not changed. We are facing a very big storm - in a very small boat. Didn't Pope John Paul I desire a focus on Jesus and Christ-Likeness? It seems to me that I read this in 'Murder in the Vatican' by Lucien Gregoire. I'd like to know what Pat Buchanan would think about my five-point monstrosity!? 'Right From the Beginning' gives some clues. The Teachings of Jesus would dominate doctrinally. The U.S. Constitution would dominate governmentally. The Latin Mass and the Sacred Classical Music would dominate liturgically. Some have suggested that the New World Order = The Kingdom of God = The Roman Catholic Church. That five-point bombshell would radically alter a New World Order, which some say is really the Old World Disorder, which has been in existence for thousands of years - in one form or another. Once again, I am cheating, by trying to hijack something which is already established. I admit it! Like Sun Tzu - I wish to win without fighting - but I don't necessarily wish to win by playing fair!!! This whole subject is very frightening to me - and I feel like I'm walking through a mine-field. I'm very afraid to take the next step - while waiting for the other shoe to drop. Try reading the following books side by side:
1. 'Let the Word Go Forth' (The Speeches, Statements, and Writings of John F. Kennedy - 1947 to 1963).
2. 'The Keys of This Blood' by Malachi Martin.
3. 'The Desire of Ages' by Ellen White.
4. 'The Federalist Papers'.
This is just an experiment. Don't take this too seriously. I'm not a seasoned scholar. I'm just a completely ignorant fool. Raven was right. But I am trying to entertain myself with a combination of reality and fantasy. There is no reward for doing so - other than seeing fleeting flashes of forbidden truth, from time to time. Once again, if you walk in my moccasins, don't expect to be happy. You need to understand this, up-front. It's a really strange space to be in. I just want to keep experiencing possible truth - without really doing much of anything with it. It's sort of dumb, in a way, but I keep hoping that it will do someone some good, at some point in the future. Hope springs eternal. I guess I'm trying to get myself up to speed with those who run the solar system. I realize that this is nearly impossible to do, without actually being one of those who really run the solar system! I also keep thinking that if I were one of those individuals, that I would mostly be a question-asking observer. I like to watch...
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:50 am; edited 4 times in total
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
I think I need to find a happy medium between stopping posting and continuing to post as I have been doing over the past couple of years. I need to really internalize the best of this thread. I know more than most of the general public - but not enough to be of any real value. I still suffer from 'Deer in the Headlights Syndrome'. I need to tone it down just a little bit. At some point, I would like to interact with the Powers That Be - Human and Otherwise - Throughout the Universe. I continue to invite the Beings of the Universe to unite around the concept of Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom - in their own way, and in their own time. Obviously the situations are different, throughout the various portions of the universe. I really don't relish pitting this solar system against the rest of the universe, in some sort of stupid Final-Jihad Trench Star-Warfare. I wish for the Original Sin, the Continuing Sin, and the Unpardonable Sin to be dealt with in a Rational and Non-Violent Manner. Please do not read hostile intent into any of my internet posting activities - including the 'Declaration of Human Sovereignty'. I simply wish for the perceived and alleged 'Human Abuse' to stop - throughout the universe. I obviously don't know what's really going on - and I am more afraid than angry. Namaste to the Beings of the Universe.
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
I've mentioned the Mass previously (particularly the Latin Mass), as being a possible liturgical benchmark or frame of reference - modified and enlightened by the Teachings of Jesus, the U.S. Constitution, and the Sacred Classical Music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE&feature=related This is more of a suggested focus of study - rather than being some sort of dogmatic assertion on my part. A possible union of all of the above should be given careful thought - especially regarding a possible Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System. Problem areas (for me) continue to be Transubstantiation, Crucifixes, Use of Fermented Wine, and the Human-Sacrifice Aspects (especially regarding the Mass not simply being a remembrance of the sacrificial life of Christ). This is all hypothetical territory. I've simply tired of waiting for the 'Best and the Brightest' to get it right. Call it the 'Revenge of the Completely Ignorant Fools'. We shall overcome - but I don't have a clue how or when. I guess I continue to seek a minimalist and non-corrupt union of church and state - at least regarding solar system governance - which would guarantee religious and political freedom within each state of the hypothetical United States of the Solar System. Does anyone have any idea regarding what I am trying to conceptually accomplish? Am I trying to put new wine in old wineskins? Is this an exercise in futility? Perhaps hymn-singing and listening to sacred classical music - with a homily on the Teachings of Jesus - should be enough. I have thought about this option for years - and I don't know why I haven't mentioned it yet in this thread. I'm really trying to not kick sand in the faces of Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Orthodox, and Lutherans - who highly value the Mass. My approach is a compromise of sorts - but is compromise usually a mistake?
What if the Mass were interpreted as being a Memorial for ALL of Those Who Sacrificed Their Lives in the Quest for Responsible Freedom - which would obviously include Jesus Christ - and which would be ongoing (rather than being a single sacrifice)? I wish to completely avoid an "Appeasement of the Gods" situation. Might the Mass be interpreted as being a Memorial Service? I realize that this would seem too somber for most Evangelicals and Positive Thinkers - but perhaps there should be a proper time and place for solemn reflection - wherein parishoners face themselves, and think. What if the Crucifixion of Christ and the Sacrifice of the Mass are symbolic of the Continuing Punishment and Eventual Extermination of the Entire Human Race (Including Michael/Horus/Jesus) for Rebelling Against a Reptilian Theocracy by Creating Human Physicality - Incarnating Into Male and Female Human Bodies - and Seeking Responsible Freedom? Wars, Terrorist-Events, Earth-Changes, etc. - are sometimes referred to as being Sacrifices. 9/11 is an example of this. What the hell is really going on in this regard? Perhaps Jesus Christ is considered to be the most sinful being in the universe - which might be why he is hanging on the walls of thousands of churches throughout the world. Think about it. Perhaps Lucifer has been tasked with enslaving and torturing the human race - with the full approval of the Universal Powers That Be. Please forgive me, if I have this wrong. I really wish to be at peace with ALL CONCERNED - throughout the entire universe - but I am very afraid regarding the future of the human race - and their surviving and thriving here in this solar system. This Prison Planet really feels like Death Row. I'm sorry for the negativity - but we really need to think through ALL of the possibilities. It seems as though the beautiful art-form of the Latin Mass has been intermingled with some questionable theology. How do we properly deal with this sensitive matter? Do we just continue to sweep everything under the rug - and pass the problems off to the next generation? Would it be helpful to think of the Roman Catholic Church as being the Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church - controlled by the Whore of Babylon, rather than being the Whore of Babylon? Believe it or not, this is not meant to be derogatory. I seek a changing of the guard, and the positive reinforcement of the best of the past. Anyway - here is the Wikipedia entry for the Mass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_(liturgy)
Mass is the Eucharistic celebration in the Latin liturgical rites of the Roman Catholic Church. The term is used also of similar celebrations in Old Catholic Churches, in the Anglo-Catholic tradition of Anglicanism, in Western Rite Orthodox Churches, in Lutheran churches, and in a small number of High Church Methodist parishes. For the celebration of the Eucharist in Eastern Churches, including those in full communion with the Holy See, other terms such as the Divine Liturgy, the Holy Qurbana and the Badarak are normally used. Most Western denominations not in full communion with the Catholic Church also usually prefer terms other than Mass.
For information on the theology of the Eucharist and on the Eucharistic liturgy of other Christian denominations, see "Eucharist" and "Eucharistic theology". For information on history see Eucharist and Origin of the Eucharist, and with specific regard to the Roman Rite Mass, Pre-Tridentine Mass and Tridentine Mass.
The term "Mass" is derived from the Late Latin word missa (dismissal), a word used in the concluding formula of Mass in Latin: "Ite, missa est" ("Go; it is the dismissal").[1][2] "In antiquity, missa simply meant 'dismissal'. In Christian usage, however, it gradually took on a deeper meaning. The word 'dismissal' has come to imply a 'mission'. These few words succinctly express the missionary nature of the Church" (Pope Benedict XVI, Sacramentum caritatis, 51)
The Council of Trent reaffirmed traditional Christian teaching that the Mass is the same Sacrifice of Calvary offered in an unbloody manner: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different. And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and offered in an unbloody manner... this sacrifice is truly propitiatory" (Doctrina de ss. Missae sacrificio, c. 2, quoted in Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1367). The Council declared that Jesus instituted the Mass at his Last Supper: "He offered up to God the Father His own body and blood under the species of bread and wine; and, under the symbols of those same things, He delivered (His own body and blood) to be received by His apostles, whom He then constituted priests of the New Testament; and by those words, Do this in commemoration of me, He commanded them and their successors in the priesthood, to offer (them); even as the Catholic Church has always understood and taught."[3]
The Catholic Church sees the Mass as the most perfect way it has to offer latria (adoration) to God. The Church believes that "The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it."[4] It is also Catholic belief that in objective reality, not merely symbolically, the wheaten bread and grape wine are converted into Christ's body and blood, a conversion referred to as transubstantiation, so that the whole Christ, body and blood, soul and divinity, is truly, really, and substantially contained in the sacrament of the Eucharist.[5]
Texts used in the Roman Rite of MassThe Roman Missal contains the prayers, antiphons and rubrics of the Mass. Earlier editions also contained the Scripture readings, which were then fewer in number. The latest edition of the Roman Missal gives the normal ("ordinary") form of Mass in the Roman Rite.[6] But, in accordance with the conditions laid down in the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum of 7 July 2007, the 1962 edition of the Roman Missal, the latest of the editions that give what is known as the Tridentine Mass, may be used as an extraordinary form of celebrating the Roman Rite Mass.
In the United States and Canada, the English translation of the Roman Missal is at present called the Sacramentary. The Lectionary presents passages from the Bible arranged in the order for reading at each day's Mass. Compared with the scripture readings in the pre-1970 Missal, the modern Lectionary contains a much wider variety of passages, too many to include in the Missal. A Book of the Gospels, also called the Evangeliary,[7] is recommended for the reading from the Gospels, but, where this book is not available, the Lectionary is used in its place.
Within the fixed structure outlined below, the Scripture readings, the antiphons sung or recited during the entrance procession or communion, and the texts of the three prayers known as the collect, the prayer over the gifts, and the postcommunion prayer vary each day according to the liturgical season, the feast days of titles or events in the life of Christ, the feast days and commemorations of the saints, or for Masses for particular circumstances (e.g., funeral Masses, Masses for the celebration of Confirmation, Masses for peace, to begin the academic year, etc.).
The priest enters, with a deacon, if there is one, and altar servers. The deacon may carry the Book of the Gospels, which he will place on the altar, and the servers may carry a processional cross and candles and incense. During this procession, ordinarily, the entrance chant is sung.[8] If there is no singing at the entrance, the entrance antiphon is recited either by some or all of the people or by a lector; otherwise it is said by the priest himself.[9] When the priest arrives at his chair, he leads the assembly in making the sign of the cross, saying: "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit",[10][11][12][13] to which the people answer: "Amen." Then the priest "signifies the presence of the Lord to the community gathered there by means of the Greeting. By this Greeting and the people’s response, the mystery of the Church gathered together is made manifest" (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, 50).[1] The greetings are derived from the Pauline epistles.
Then the priest invites those present to take part in the Act of Penitence, of which the Missal proposes three forms, the first of which is the Confiteor. This is concluded with the priest's prayer of absolution, "which, however, lacks the efficacy of the Sacrament of Penance" (GIRM 51). "On Sundays, especially in the Season of Easter, in place of the customary Act of Penitence, from time to time the blessing and sprinkling of water to recall Baptism may take place" (GIRM 51).
"After the Act of Penitence, the Kyrie is always begun, unless it has already been included as part of the Act of Penitence. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it is ordinarily done by all, that is, by the people and with the choir or cantor having a part in it" (GIRM 52). The Kyrie may be sung or recited in the vernacular language or in the original Greek.
"The Gloria in Excelsis Deo is a very ancient and venerable hymn in which the Church, gathered together in the Holy Spirit, glorifies and entreats God the Father and the Lamb. ... It is sung or said on Sundays outside the Seasons of Advent and Lent, on solemnities and feasts, and at special celebrations of a more solemn character" (GIRM 53). In accordance with that rule, the Gloria is omitted at funerals. It is also omitted for ordinary feast-days of saints, weekdays, and Votive Masses. It is also optional, in line with the perceived degree of solemnity of the occasion, at Ritual Masses such as those celebrated for Marriage ("Nuptial Mass"), Confirmation or Religious Profession, at Masses on the Anniversary of Marriage or Religious Profession, and at Masses for Various Needs and Occasions.
"Next the priest invites the people to pray. All, together with the priest, observe a brief silence so that they may be conscious of the fact that they are in God’s presence and may formulate their petitions mentally. Then the priest says the prayer which is customarily known as the Collect and through which the character of the celebration is expressed" (GIRM 54).
On Sundays and solemnities, three Scripture readings are given. On other days there are only two. If there are three readings, the first is from the Old Testament (a term wider than Hebrew Scriptures, since it includes the Deuterocanonical Books), or the Acts of the Apostles during Eastertide. The first reading is followed by a Responsorial Psalm, a complete Psalm or a sizeable portion of one. A cantor, choir or lector leads, and the congregation sings or recites a refrain. The second reading is from the New Testament, typically from one of the Pauline epistles. The reader typically concludes each reading by proclaiming that the reading is "the word of the Lord," and congregation responds by saying "Thanks be to God."
If a deacon participates, he reads the Gospel. A priest, bishop, or even the Pope should not proclaim the Gospel if a deacon is participating.The final reading and high point of the Liturgy of the Word is the proclamation of the Gospel. This is preceded by the singing or recitation of the Gospel Acclamation, typically an Alleluia with a verse of Scripture, which may be omitted if not sung. Alleluia is replaced during Lent by a different acclamation of praise. All stand while the Gospel is chanted or read by a deacon or, if none is available, by a priest. To conclude the Gospel reading, the priest or deacon proclaims: "This is the Gospel of the Lord" (in the United States, "The Gospel of the Lord") and the people respond, "Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ." The priest or deacon then kisses the book.
At least on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation, a homily, a sermon that draws upon some aspect of the readings or the liturgy of the day, is then given. Ordinarily the priest celebrant himself gives the homily, but he may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or, occasionally, to the deacon, but never to a lay person. In particular cases and for a just cause, a bishop or priest who is present but unable to concelebrate may give the homily. On days other than Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation, the homily, though not obligatory, is recommended.[14]
On Sundays and solemnities, all then profess their Christian faith by reciting or singing the Nicene Creed or, especially from Easter to Pentecost, the Apostles' Creed, which is particularly associated with baptism and often used with Masses for children.
The Liturgy of the Word concludes with the General Intercessions or "Prayers of the Faithful." The priest speaks a general introduction, then a deacon or lay person addresses the congregation, presenting some intentions for prayer, to which the congregation responds with a short response such as: "Lord hear our prayer". The priest may conclude with a supplication.
The linen corporal is spread over the center of the altar, and the Liturgy of the Eucharist begins with the ceremonial placing on it of bread and wine. These may be brought to the altar in a procession, especially if Mass is celebrated with a large congregation.[15] The bread (wheaten and unleavened) is placed on a paten, and the wine (from grapes), mixed with a little water, is put in a chalice. As the priest places each on the corporal, he says a silent prayer over each individually, which, if this rite is unaccompanied by singing, he is permitted to say aloud, in which case the congregation responds to each prayer with: "Blessed be God forever." Then the priest washes his hands, "a rite that is an expression of his desire for interior purification."[16]
The congregation, which has been seated during this preparatory rite, rises, and the priest gives an exhortation to pray: "Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father." The congregation responds: "May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands, for the praise and glory of his name, for our good, and the good of all his Church." The priest then pronounces the variable prayer over the gifts that have been set aside.
The Eucharistic Prayer, "the center and summit of the entire celebration",[17] then begins with a dialogue between priest and people. This dialogue opens with the normal liturgical greeting, but in view of the special solemnity of the rite now beginning, the priest then exhorts the people: "Lift up your hearts." The people respond with: "We lift them up to the Lord." The priest then introduces the great theme of the Eucharist, a word originating in the Greek word for giving thanks: "Let us give thanks to the Lord, our God," he says. The congregation joins in this sentiment, saying: "It is right to give him thanks and praise."
The priest then continues with one of many Eucharistic Prayer prefaces, which lead to the Sanctus acclamation: "Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of power and might, Heaven and Earth are full of your glory, Hosanna in the Highest, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the Highest."
In some countries, including the United States, the people kneel immediately after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus. However, the general rule is that they kneel somewhat later, for the Consecration,[18] when, according to Catholic faith, the whole substance (what they are prior to the consecration) of the bread and wine is converted into that of the body and blood of Christ (which are now inseparable from one another and from his soul and divinity),[19] while the accidents (or appearances) of bread and wine remain unaltered (see Transubstantiation).
The chalice is displayed to the people immediately after the consecration of the wine.The Eucharistic Prayer includes the Epiclesis, through which the Church implores the power of the Holy Spirit that the gifts that have been set aside may become Christ's body and blood and that the Communion may be for the salvation of those who will partake of it.[20]
The central part is the Institution Narrative and Consecration, recalling the words and actions of Jesus at his Last Supper, which he told his disciples to do in remembrance of him.[21]
Immediately after the Consecration and the display to the people of the consecrated elements, the priest invites the people to proclaim "the mystery of faith", and the congregation joins in reciting the Memorial Acclamation. The Roman Missal gives three forms of this acclamation. Of the first of these three, the 1973 English translation provided a very loose translation and added a second not based on any of the Latin acclamations. In Ireland yet another form ("My Lord and my God") was permitted. The revised translation, which will be put into use in most English-speaking countries on the first Sunday in Advent in 2011 (it is already in use in South Africa) has instead faithful translations of the three Latin acclamations.[22]
The Eucharistic Prayer also includes the Anamnesis, expressions of offering, and intercessions for the living and dead. It concludes with a doxology, with the priest lifting up the paten with the host and the deacon (if there is one) the chalice, and the singing or recitation of the Amen by the people. The unofficial term "The Great Amen" is sometimes applied to this Amen.
All together recite or sing the "Lord's Prayer" ("Pater Noster" or "Our Father"). The priest introduces it with a short phrase and follows it up with the embolism: "Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ." The people then add the doxology: "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever."
Next comes the rite of peace (pax). After praying: "Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles: 'I leave you peace, my peace I give you.' Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live for ever and ever ", the priest wishes the people the peace of Christ: "The peace of the Lord be with you always." The deacon or, in his absence, the priest may then invite those present to offer each other the sign of peace. The form of the sign of peace varies according to local custom for a respectful greeting (for instance, a handshake or a bow between strangers, or a kiss/hug between family members).
While the "Lamb of God" ("Agnus Dei" in Latin) litany is sung or recited, the priest breaks the host and places a piece in the main chalice; this is known as the rite of fraction and commingling.
If extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are required, they may come forward at this time, but they are not allowed to go to the altar itself until after the priest has received Communion (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, 162). The priest then presents the transubstantiated elements to the congregation, saying: "This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Happy are those who are called to his supper." Then all repeat: "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed." The priest then receives Communion and, with the help, if necessary, of extraordinary ministers, distributes Communion to the people, who, as a rule,[23] approach in procession. When receiving Holy Communion, the communicant bows his or her head before the Sacrament as a gesture of reverence, and may receive the consecrated host either on the tongue or in the hand, at the discretion of each communicant.[23] The distributing minister says: "The body of Christ" or "The blood of Christ", according as the element distributed is the consecrated bread or the consecrated wine, or: "The body and blood of Christ", if both are distributed together (by intinction).[24] The communicant responds: "Amen."
While Communion is distributed, an appropriate song is recommended. If that is not possible, a short antiphon is recited before the distribution begins.
"The sacred vessels are purified by the priest, the deacon, or an instituted acolyte after Communion or after Mass, insofar as possible at the credence table" (GIRM 279). Then the priest concludes the Liturgy of the Eucharist with the Prayer after Communion, for which the people are invited to stand.
After the Prayer after Communion, announcements may be made. The Missal says these should be brief. The priest then gives the usual liturgical greeting and imparts his blessing. The liturgy concludes with a dialogue between the priest and congregation. The deacon, or in his absence, the priest himself then dismisses the people. The Latin formula is simply "Ite, missa est", but the 1973 English Missal gives a choice of dismissal formulas. The congregation responds: "Thanks be to God." The priest and other ministers then leave, often to the accompaniment of a recessional hymn, and the people then depart. In some countries the priest customarily stands outside the church door to greet them individually.
Since the Second Vatican Council, the time for fulfilling the obligation to attend Mass on Sunday or a Holy Day of Obligation now begins on the evening of the day before,[25][26] and most parish churches do celebrate the Sunday Mass also on Saturday evening. By long tradition and liturgical law, Mass is not celebrated at any time on Good Friday (but Holy Communion is distributed, with hosts consecrated at the evening Mass of the Lord's Supper on Holy Thursday, to those participating in the Celebration of the Passion of the Lord) or on Holy Saturday before the Easter Vigil (the beginning of the celebration of Easter Sunday), in other words, between the annual celebrations of the Lord's Supper and the Resurrection of Jesus (see Easter Triduum).
Deacons, priests and bishops are required to celebrate the Liturgy of the Hours daily, but are not obligated to celebrate Mass daily. "Apart from those cases in which the law allows him to celebrate or concelebrate the Eucharist a number of times on the same day, a priest may not celebrate more than once a day" (canon 905 of the Code of Canon Law), and "a priest may not celebrate the Eucharistic Sacrifice without the participation of at least one of the faithful, unless there is a good and reasonable cause for doing so" (canon 906).
Priests may be required by their posts to celebrate Mass daily, or at least on Sundays, for the faithful in their pastoral care. The bishop of a diocese and the pastor of a parish are required to celebrate or arrange for another priest to celebrate, on every Sunday or Holy Day of Obligation, a Mass "pro populo" - that is, for the faithful entrusted to his care.
For Latin-Rite priests, there are a few general exceptions to the limitation to celebrate only one Mass a day (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, 204). By very ancient tradition, they may celebrate Mass three times at Christmas (the Midnight Mass or "Mass of the Angels", the Dawn Mass or "Shepherd's Mass", and the Day Mass or "Mass of the Divine Word", each of which has its own readings and chants).
On All Souls' Day they may also, on the basis of a privilege to all priests by Pope Benedict XV in August 1915, celebrate Mass three times; only one of the three Masses may be for the personal intentions of the priest, while the other two Masses must be applied, one for all the faithful departed, the other for the intentions of the Pope. A priest who has concelebrated the Chrism Mass, which may be held on the morning of Holy Thursday, may also celebrate or concelebrate the Mass of the Lord's Supper that evening. A priest may celebrate or concelebrate both the Mass of the Easter Vigil and Mass during Easter day (the Easter Vigil "should not begin before nightfall; it should end before daybreak on Sunday"; and may therefore take place at midnight or in the early hours of Easter morning). Finally, a priest who has concelebrated Mass at a meeting of priests or during a pastoral visitation by a bishop or a bishop's delegate, may celebrate a second Mass for the benefit of the laity.
In addition to these general permissions, the Local Ordinary may, for a good reason, permit priests to celebrate twice (they are then said to "binate," and the act is "bination") on weekdays, and three times ("trinate," and "trination") on Sundays and Holy Days (canon 905 §2). Examples would be: if a parish priest were to need to celebrate the usual, scheduled daily Mass of a parish, and a funeral later in the morning, or three Masses to accommodate all of the parishioners in a very populous parish on Sundays. In particularly difficult circumstances, the Pope can grant the diocesan bishop permission to give his priests faculties to trinate on weekdays and quadrinate on Sundays.
In many countries, the bishop's power to permit priests to celebrate two Masses on one day and three Masses on one day is widely availed of, so that it is common for priests assigned to parish ministry to celebrate at least two Masses on any given Sunday, and two Masses on several other days of the week. Permission for four Masses on one day has been obtained in order to cope with large numbers of Catholics either in mission lands or where the ranks of priests are diminishing.
The length of time that it takes to celebrate Mass varies considerably. While the Roman Rite liturgy is shorter than other liturgical rites, it may on solemn occasions - even apart from exceptional circumstances such as the Easter Vigil or an event such as ordinations - take over an hour and a half. The length of the homily is an obvious factor that contributes to the overall length. Other factors are the number of people receiving Communion and the number and length of the chants and other singing.
For most of the second millennium, before the twentieth century brought changes beginning with Pope Pius X's encouragement of frequent Communion, the usual Mass was said exactly the same way whether people other than a server were present or not. No homily was given,[27] and most often only the priest himself received Communion.[28] Moral theologians gave their opinions on how much time the priest should dedicate to celebrating a Mass, a matter on which canon law and the Roman Missal were silent. One said that an hour should not be considered too long. Several others that, in order to avoid tedium, Mass should last no more than half an hour; and in order to be said with due reverence, it should last no less than twenty minutes. Another theologian, who gave half an hour as the minimum time, considered that Mass could not be said in less than a quarter of an hour, an opinion supported by others, including Saint Alphonsus Liguori, who said that any priest who finished Mass in less than that time could scarcely be excused from mortal sin.[29]
A Mass celebrated in connection with a particular rite, such as an ordination, a wedding or a profession of religious vows, may use texts provided in the "Ritual Masses" section of the Roman Missal. The rite in question is, most often, a sacrament, but the section has special texts not only for Masses within which Baptism, Confirmation, Anointing of the Sick, Orders, and Holy Matrimony are celebrated, but also for Masses with religious profession, the dedication of a church, and several other rites. Confession (Penance or Reconciliation) is the only sacrament not celebrated within a Eucharistic framework and for which therefore no Ritual Mass is provided.
The Ritual Mass texts may not be used, except perhaps partially, when the rite is celebrated during especially important liturgical seasons or on high ranking feasts.
A Nuptial Mass[30] is a Ritual Mass within which the sacrament of Holy Matrimony is celebrated. If one of a couple being married in a Catholic church is not a Catholic, the rite of Holy Matrimony outside Mass is to be followed. However, if the non-Catholic has been baptized in the name of all three Persons of the Trinity (and not only in the name of, say, Jesus, as is the baptismal practice in some branches of Christianity), then, in exceptional cases and provided the bishop of the diocese gives permission, it may be considered suitable to celebrate the marriage within Mass, except that, according to the general law, Communion is not given to the non-Catholic (Rite of Marriage, .
"Mass" is one of many terms used to describe the Eucharist in the Anglican tradition, the others being "Holy Communion," "Holy Eucharist," "the Lord's Supper," and "the Divine Liturgy." In the English-speaking Anglican world, the term used frequently connotes the Eucharistic theology of the one using it. "Mass" is considered an Anglo-Catholic term.
The various Eucharistic liturgies used by national churches of the Anglican Communion have continuously evolved from the early editions of the Book of Common Prayer, which was loosely based upon the Pre-Tridentine Mass. The structure of the liturgies, crafted in the tradition of the Elizabethan Settlement, allows for a variety of theological interpretations, and generally follows the same rough shape. Some or all of the following elements may be altered or absent depending on the rite, the liturgical season and use of the province or national church:
The Gathering of the Community: Beginning with a Trinitarian-based greeting or seasonal acclamation; followed by the Collect for Purity; the Gloria in Excelsis Deo or some other song of praise, Kyrie eleison, and/or Trisagion; and then the collect of the day. During Lent and/or Advent especially, this part of the service may begin or end with a penitential rite.
The Proclamation of the Word: Usually two to three readings of Scripture, one of which is always from the Gospels, plus a psalm (or portion thereof) or canticle between the lessons. This is followed by a sermon or homily; the recitation of the Apostles', Nicene or Athanasian Creeds; the prayers of the congregation or a general intercession, a general confession and absolution, and the passing of the peace.
The Celebration of the Eucharist: The gifts of bread and wine are brought up, along with other gifts (such as money and/or food for a food bank, etc.), and an offertory prayer is recited. Following this, a Eucharistic Prayer (called "The Great Thanksgiving") is offered. This prayer consists of a dialogue (the Sursum Corda), a preface, the sanctus and benedictus, the Words of Institution, the Anamnesis, an Epiclesis a petition for salvation and a Doxology. The Lord's Prayer precedes the fraction (the breaking of the bread), followed by the Prayer of Humble Access and/or the Agnus Dei, and the distribution of the sacred elements (the bread and wine). After all who have desired to have received, there is a post-Communion prayer, which is a general prayer of thanksgiving. The service concludes with a Trinitarian blessing and the dismissal.
The liturgy is divided into two parts: The Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist, but the entire liturgy itself is also properly referred to as the Holy Eucharist. The parts and sequence of the liturgy are almost identical to the Roman Rite, except the Confession of Sin ends the Liturgy of the Word in the Anglican rites in North America, while in the Roman Rite and in Anglican rites in the rest of the world the Confession is near the beginning of the service.
The Anglican tradition includes separate rites for nuptial masses, funeral masses, and votive masses. The Eucharist is an integral part of many other sacramental services, including ordination and Confirmation.
A few Anglo-Catholic parishes use Anglican versions of the Tridentine Missal, such as the English Missal, The Anglican Missal, or American Missal, for the celebration of mass, all of which are intended primarily for the celebration of the Eucharist. Many Anglo-Catholic parishes in the Church of England use A Manual of Anglo-Catholic Devotion (successor to the earlier A Manual of Catholic Devotion). In the Episcopal Church USA, a traditional-language, Anglo-Catholic adaptation of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer has been published (An Anglican Service Book).
All of these books contain such features as meditations for the presiding celebrant(s) during the liturgy, and other material such as the rite for the blessing of palms on Palm Sunday, propers for special feast days, and instructions for proper ceremonial order. These books are used as a more expansively Catholic context in which to celebrate the liturgical use found in the Book of Common Prayer and related liturgical books.
These are supplemented by books specifying ceremonial actions, such as A Priest's Handbook by David Michno, Ceremonies of the Eucharist, by Howard E. Galley, and Ritual Notes by E.C.R. Lamburn. Other guides to ceremonial include the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite (Peter Elliott), Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described (Adrian Fortescue), and The Parson's Handbook (Percy Dearmer).
In the Book of Concord, Article XXIV ("Of the Mass") of the Augsburg Confession (1530) begins thus: "Falsely are our churches accused of abolishing the Mass; for the Mass is retained among us, and celebrated with the highest reverence. We do not abolish the Mass but religiously keep and defend it... we keep the traditional liturgical form... In our churches Mass is celebrated every Sunday and on other holy days, when the sacrament is offered to those who wish for it after they have been examined and absolved (Article XXIV)".
Martin Luther rejected parts of the Roman Rite Catholic Mass (specifically the Canon of the Mass), which he argued did not conform with Hebrews 7:27, which contrasts the Old Testament priests, who needed to make a sacrifice for sins on a regular basis, with the single priest Christ, who offers his body only once as a sacrifice, and also with Hebrews 9:26, 9:28, and 10:10. He composed as a replacement a revised Latin-language rite, Formula missae in 1523 and the vernacular Deutsche Messe in 1526.
In German, the Scandinavian languages, Finnish, and some English Lutherans, use the word "Mass" for their corresponding service,[31] but in most English-speaking churches, they call it the "Divine Service", "Holy Communion, or "the Holy Eucharist".
The celebration of the Mass in Lutheran churches follows a similar pattern to other traditions, starting with public confession (Confiteor) by all and a Declaration of Grace said by the priest or pastor. Followed by the Introit, Kyrie, Gloria, collect, the readings with an alleluia (alleluia is not said during Lent), homily (or sermon) and recitation of the Nicene Creed. The Service of the Eucharist includes the General intercessions, Preface, Sanctus and Eucharistic Prayer, elevation of the host and chalice and invitation to the Eucharist. The Agnus Dei is chanted while the clergy and assistants first commune followed by lay communicants. Postcommunion prayers and the final blessing by the priest ends the Mass. A Roman Catholic or Anglican would find its elements familiar, in particular the use of the sign of the cross, kneeling for prayer and the Eucharistic Prayer, bowing to the processional crucifix, kissing the altar, incense (among some), chanting, and vestments.
Lutherans are to offer the Eucharist each Sunday.[32] Also, eucharistic ministers take the sacramental elements to the sick in hospitals and nursing homes. The ancient practice of celebrating Mass each Sunday is as Martin Luther wanted and the Lutheran confessions teach is increasingly the norm in most Lutheran parishes throughout the world. This restoration of the weekly Mass has been strongly encouraged by the bishops and priests/pastors.
The celebration of the Eucharist may be included in weddings, funerals, retreats, the dedication of a church building and at annual synod conventions. The Mass is also an important aspect of ordinations and confirmations in Lutheran churches.
Some Methodists, particularly High Church parishioners, use the term "Mass" the liturgical celebration of the Holy Eucharist. Their celebration differs from that of Catholic churches and consists of responsive readings from the liturgy, songs from the Methodist Hymnal, responsive hymns, cantoring, a homily, receiving the sacraments of the Holy Eucharist, and prayer. Methodist mass is usually celebrated, depending on the parish, weekly or monthly. It is also performed on holy days such as Maundy Thursday or Christmas Eve.[33] The receiving of the Holy Eucharist is open to anyone. In fact, Methodist ministers often use the liturgical saying, "Christ invites to His table all who earnestly repent of their sins and seek to live in peace with one another."
What if the Mass were interpreted as being a Memorial for ALL of Those Who Sacrificed Their Lives in the Quest for Responsible Freedom - which would obviously include Jesus Christ - and which would be ongoing (rather than being a single sacrifice)? I wish to completely avoid an "Appeasement of the Gods" situation. Might the Mass be interpreted as being a Memorial Service? I realize that this would seem too somber for most Evangelicals and Positive Thinkers - but perhaps there should be a proper time and place for solemn reflection - wherein parishoners face themselves, and think. What if the Crucifixion of Christ and the Sacrifice of the Mass are symbolic of the Continuing Punishment and Eventual Extermination of the Entire Human Race (Including Michael/Horus/Jesus) for Rebelling Against a Reptilian Theocracy by Creating Human Physicality - Incarnating Into Male and Female Human Bodies - and Seeking Responsible Freedom? Wars, Terrorist-Events, Earth-Changes, etc. - are sometimes referred to as being Sacrifices. 9/11 is an example of this. What the hell is really going on in this regard? Perhaps Jesus Christ is considered to be the most sinful being in the universe - which might be why he is hanging on the walls of thousands of churches throughout the world. Think about it. Perhaps Lucifer has been tasked with enslaving and torturing the human race - with the full approval of the Universal Powers That Be. Please forgive me, if I have this wrong. I really wish to be at peace with ALL CONCERNED - throughout the entire universe - but I am very afraid regarding the future of the human race - and their surviving and thriving here in this solar system. This Prison Planet really feels like Death Row. I'm sorry for the negativity - but we really need to think through ALL of the possibilities. It seems as though the beautiful art-form of the Latin Mass has been intermingled with some questionable theology. How do we properly deal with this sensitive matter? Do we just continue to sweep everything under the rug - and pass the problems off to the next generation? Would it be helpful to think of the Roman Catholic Church as being the Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church - controlled by the Whore of Babylon, rather than being the Whore of Babylon? Believe it or not, this is not meant to be derogatory. I seek a changing of the guard, and the positive reinforcement of the best of the past. Anyway - here is the Wikipedia entry for the Mass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_(liturgy)
Mass is the Eucharistic celebration in the Latin liturgical rites of the Roman Catholic Church. The term is used also of similar celebrations in Old Catholic Churches, in the Anglo-Catholic tradition of Anglicanism, in Western Rite Orthodox Churches, in Lutheran churches, and in a small number of High Church Methodist parishes. For the celebration of the Eucharist in Eastern Churches, including those in full communion with the Holy See, other terms such as the Divine Liturgy, the Holy Qurbana and the Badarak are normally used. Most Western denominations not in full communion with the Catholic Church also usually prefer terms other than Mass.
For information on the theology of the Eucharist and on the Eucharistic liturgy of other Christian denominations, see "Eucharist" and "Eucharistic theology". For information on history see Eucharist and Origin of the Eucharist, and with specific regard to the Roman Rite Mass, Pre-Tridentine Mass and Tridentine Mass.
The term "Mass" is derived from the Late Latin word missa (dismissal), a word used in the concluding formula of Mass in Latin: "Ite, missa est" ("Go; it is the dismissal").[1][2] "In antiquity, missa simply meant 'dismissal'. In Christian usage, however, it gradually took on a deeper meaning. The word 'dismissal' has come to imply a 'mission'. These few words succinctly express the missionary nature of the Church" (Pope Benedict XVI, Sacramentum caritatis, 51)
The Council of Trent reaffirmed traditional Christian teaching that the Mass is the same Sacrifice of Calvary offered in an unbloody manner: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different. And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and offered in an unbloody manner... this sacrifice is truly propitiatory" (Doctrina de ss. Missae sacrificio, c. 2, quoted in Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1367). The Council declared that Jesus instituted the Mass at his Last Supper: "He offered up to God the Father His own body and blood under the species of bread and wine; and, under the symbols of those same things, He delivered (His own body and blood) to be received by His apostles, whom He then constituted priests of the New Testament; and by those words, Do this in commemoration of me, He commanded them and their successors in the priesthood, to offer (them); even as the Catholic Church has always understood and taught."[3]
The Catholic Church sees the Mass as the most perfect way it has to offer latria (adoration) to God. The Church believes that "The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it."[4] It is also Catholic belief that in objective reality, not merely symbolically, the wheaten bread and grape wine are converted into Christ's body and blood, a conversion referred to as transubstantiation, so that the whole Christ, body and blood, soul and divinity, is truly, really, and substantially contained in the sacrament of the Eucharist.[5]
Texts used in the Roman Rite of MassThe Roman Missal contains the prayers, antiphons and rubrics of the Mass. Earlier editions also contained the Scripture readings, which were then fewer in number. The latest edition of the Roman Missal gives the normal ("ordinary") form of Mass in the Roman Rite.[6] But, in accordance with the conditions laid down in the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum of 7 July 2007, the 1962 edition of the Roman Missal, the latest of the editions that give what is known as the Tridentine Mass, may be used as an extraordinary form of celebrating the Roman Rite Mass.
In the United States and Canada, the English translation of the Roman Missal is at present called the Sacramentary. The Lectionary presents passages from the Bible arranged in the order for reading at each day's Mass. Compared with the scripture readings in the pre-1970 Missal, the modern Lectionary contains a much wider variety of passages, too many to include in the Missal. A Book of the Gospels, also called the Evangeliary,[7] is recommended for the reading from the Gospels, but, where this book is not available, the Lectionary is used in its place.
Within the fixed structure outlined below, the Scripture readings, the antiphons sung or recited during the entrance procession or communion, and the texts of the three prayers known as the collect, the prayer over the gifts, and the postcommunion prayer vary each day according to the liturgical season, the feast days of titles or events in the life of Christ, the feast days and commemorations of the saints, or for Masses for particular circumstances (e.g., funeral Masses, Masses for the celebration of Confirmation, Masses for peace, to begin the academic year, etc.).
The priest enters, with a deacon, if there is one, and altar servers. The deacon may carry the Book of the Gospels, which he will place on the altar, and the servers may carry a processional cross and candles and incense. During this procession, ordinarily, the entrance chant is sung.[8] If there is no singing at the entrance, the entrance antiphon is recited either by some or all of the people or by a lector; otherwise it is said by the priest himself.[9] When the priest arrives at his chair, he leads the assembly in making the sign of the cross, saying: "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit",[10][11][12][13] to which the people answer: "Amen." Then the priest "signifies the presence of the Lord to the community gathered there by means of the Greeting. By this Greeting and the people’s response, the mystery of the Church gathered together is made manifest" (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, 50).[1] The greetings are derived from the Pauline epistles.
Then the priest invites those present to take part in the Act of Penitence, of which the Missal proposes three forms, the first of which is the Confiteor. This is concluded with the priest's prayer of absolution, "which, however, lacks the efficacy of the Sacrament of Penance" (GIRM 51). "On Sundays, especially in the Season of Easter, in place of the customary Act of Penitence, from time to time the blessing and sprinkling of water to recall Baptism may take place" (GIRM 51).
"After the Act of Penitence, the Kyrie is always begun, unless it has already been included as part of the Act of Penitence. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it is ordinarily done by all, that is, by the people and with the choir or cantor having a part in it" (GIRM 52). The Kyrie may be sung or recited in the vernacular language or in the original Greek.
"The Gloria in Excelsis Deo is a very ancient and venerable hymn in which the Church, gathered together in the Holy Spirit, glorifies and entreats God the Father and the Lamb. ... It is sung or said on Sundays outside the Seasons of Advent and Lent, on solemnities and feasts, and at special celebrations of a more solemn character" (GIRM 53). In accordance with that rule, the Gloria is omitted at funerals. It is also omitted for ordinary feast-days of saints, weekdays, and Votive Masses. It is also optional, in line with the perceived degree of solemnity of the occasion, at Ritual Masses such as those celebrated for Marriage ("Nuptial Mass"), Confirmation or Religious Profession, at Masses on the Anniversary of Marriage or Religious Profession, and at Masses for Various Needs and Occasions.
"Next the priest invites the people to pray. All, together with the priest, observe a brief silence so that they may be conscious of the fact that they are in God’s presence and may formulate their petitions mentally. Then the priest says the prayer which is customarily known as the Collect and through which the character of the celebration is expressed" (GIRM 54).
On Sundays and solemnities, three Scripture readings are given. On other days there are only two. If there are three readings, the first is from the Old Testament (a term wider than Hebrew Scriptures, since it includes the Deuterocanonical Books), or the Acts of the Apostles during Eastertide. The first reading is followed by a Responsorial Psalm, a complete Psalm or a sizeable portion of one. A cantor, choir or lector leads, and the congregation sings or recites a refrain. The second reading is from the New Testament, typically from one of the Pauline epistles. The reader typically concludes each reading by proclaiming that the reading is "the word of the Lord," and congregation responds by saying "Thanks be to God."
If a deacon participates, he reads the Gospel. A priest, bishop, or even the Pope should not proclaim the Gospel if a deacon is participating.The final reading and high point of the Liturgy of the Word is the proclamation of the Gospel. This is preceded by the singing or recitation of the Gospel Acclamation, typically an Alleluia with a verse of Scripture, which may be omitted if not sung. Alleluia is replaced during Lent by a different acclamation of praise. All stand while the Gospel is chanted or read by a deacon or, if none is available, by a priest. To conclude the Gospel reading, the priest or deacon proclaims: "This is the Gospel of the Lord" (in the United States, "The Gospel of the Lord") and the people respond, "Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ." The priest or deacon then kisses the book.
At least on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation, a homily, a sermon that draws upon some aspect of the readings or the liturgy of the day, is then given. Ordinarily the priest celebrant himself gives the homily, but he may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or, occasionally, to the deacon, but never to a lay person. In particular cases and for a just cause, a bishop or priest who is present but unable to concelebrate may give the homily. On days other than Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation, the homily, though not obligatory, is recommended.[14]
On Sundays and solemnities, all then profess their Christian faith by reciting or singing the Nicene Creed or, especially from Easter to Pentecost, the Apostles' Creed, which is particularly associated with baptism and often used with Masses for children.
The Liturgy of the Word concludes with the General Intercessions or "Prayers of the Faithful." The priest speaks a general introduction, then a deacon or lay person addresses the congregation, presenting some intentions for prayer, to which the congregation responds with a short response such as: "Lord hear our prayer". The priest may conclude with a supplication.
The linen corporal is spread over the center of the altar, and the Liturgy of the Eucharist begins with the ceremonial placing on it of bread and wine. These may be brought to the altar in a procession, especially if Mass is celebrated with a large congregation.[15] The bread (wheaten and unleavened) is placed on a paten, and the wine (from grapes), mixed with a little water, is put in a chalice. As the priest places each on the corporal, he says a silent prayer over each individually, which, if this rite is unaccompanied by singing, he is permitted to say aloud, in which case the congregation responds to each prayer with: "Blessed be God forever." Then the priest washes his hands, "a rite that is an expression of his desire for interior purification."[16]
The congregation, which has been seated during this preparatory rite, rises, and the priest gives an exhortation to pray: "Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father." The congregation responds: "May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands, for the praise and glory of his name, for our good, and the good of all his Church." The priest then pronounces the variable prayer over the gifts that have been set aside.
The Eucharistic Prayer, "the center and summit of the entire celebration",[17] then begins with a dialogue between priest and people. This dialogue opens with the normal liturgical greeting, but in view of the special solemnity of the rite now beginning, the priest then exhorts the people: "Lift up your hearts." The people respond with: "We lift them up to the Lord." The priest then introduces the great theme of the Eucharist, a word originating in the Greek word for giving thanks: "Let us give thanks to the Lord, our God," he says. The congregation joins in this sentiment, saying: "It is right to give him thanks and praise."
The priest then continues with one of many Eucharistic Prayer prefaces, which lead to the Sanctus acclamation: "Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of power and might, Heaven and Earth are full of your glory, Hosanna in the Highest, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the Highest."
In some countries, including the United States, the people kneel immediately after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus. However, the general rule is that they kneel somewhat later, for the Consecration,[18] when, according to Catholic faith, the whole substance (what they are prior to the consecration) of the bread and wine is converted into that of the body and blood of Christ (which are now inseparable from one another and from his soul and divinity),[19] while the accidents (or appearances) of bread and wine remain unaltered (see Transubstantiation).
The chalice is displayed to the people immediately after the consecration of the wine.The Eucharistic Prayer includes the Epiclesis, through which the Church implores the power of the Holy Spirit that the gifts that have been set aside may become Christ's body and blood and that the Communion may be for the salvation of those who will partake of it.[20]
The central part is the Institution Narrative and Consecration, recalling the words and actions of Jesus at his Last Supper, which he told his disciples to do in remembrance of him.[21]
Immediately after the Consecration and the display to the people of the consecrated elements, the priest invites the people to proclaim "the mystery of faith", and the congregation joins in reciting the Memorial Acclamation. The Roman Missal gives three forms of this acclamation. Of the first of these three, the 1973 English translation provided a very loose translation and added a second not based on any of the Latin acclamations. In Ireland yet another form ("My Lord and my God") was permitted. The revised translation, which will be put into use in most English-speaking countries on the first Sunday in Advent in 2011 (it is already in use in South Africa) has instead faithful translations of the three Latin acclamations.[22]
The Eucharistic Prayer also includes the Anamnesis, expressions of offering, and intercessions for the living and dead. It concludes with a doxology, with the priest lifting up the paten with the host and the deacon (if there is one) the chalice, and the singing or recitation of the Amen by the people. The unofficial term "The Great Amen" is sometimes applied to this Amen.
All together recite or sing the "Lord's Prayer" ("Pater Noster" or "Our Father"). The priest introduces it with a short phrase and follows it up with the embolism: "Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ." The people then add the doxology: "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever."
Next comes the rite of peace (pax). After praying: "Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles: 'I leave you peace, my peace I give you.' Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live for ever and ever ", the priest wishes the people the peace of Christ: "The peace of the Lord be with you always." The deacon or, in his absence, the priest may then invite those present to offer each other the sign of peace. The form of the sign of peace varies according to local custom for a respectful greeting (for instance, a handshake or a bow between strangers, or a kiss/hug between family members).
While the "Lamb of God" ("Agnus Dei" in Latin) litany is sung or recited, the priest breaks the host and places a piece in the main chalice; this is known as the rite of fraction and commingling.
If extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are required, they may come forward at this time, but they are not allowed to go to the altar itself until after the priest has received Communion (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, 162). The priest then presents the transubstantiated elements to the congregation, saying: "This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Happy are those who are called to his supper." Then all repeat: "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed." The priest then receives Communion and, with the help, if necessary, of extraordinary ministers, distributes Communion to the people, who, as a rule,[23] approach in procession. When receiving Holy Communion, the communicant bows his or her head before the Sacrament as a gesture of reverence, and may receive the consecrated host either on the tongue or in the hand, at the discretion of each communicant.[23] The distributing minister says: "The body of Christ" or "The blood of Christ", according as the element distributed is the consecrated bread or the consecrated wine, or: "The body and blood of Christ", if both are distributed together (by intinction).[24] The communicant responds: "Amen."
While Communion is distributed, an appropriate song is recommended. If that is not possible, a short antiphon is recited before the distribution begins.
"The sacred vessels are purified by the priest, the deacon, or an instituted acolyte after Communion or after Mass, insofar as possible at the credence table" (GIRM 279). Then the priest concludes the Liturgy of the Eucharist with the Prayer after Communion, for which the people are invited to stand.
After the Prayer after Communion, announcements may be made. The Missal says these should be brief. The priest then gives the usual liturgical greeting and imparts his blessing. The liturgy concludes with a dialogue between the priest and congregation. The deacon, or in his absence, the priest himself then dismisses the people. The Latin formula is simply "Ite, missa est", but the 1973 English Missal gives a choice of dismissal formulas. The congregation responds: "Thanks be to God." The priest and other ministers then leave, often to the accompaniment of a recessional hymn, and the people then depart. In some countries the priest customarily stands outside the church door to greet them individually.
Since the Second Vatican Council, the time for fulfilling the obligation to attend Mass on Sunday or a Holy Day of Obligation now begins on the evening of the day before,[25][26] and most parish churches do celebrate the Sunday Mass also on Saturday evening. By long tradition and liturgical law, Mass is not celebrated at any time on Good Friday (but Holy Communion is distributed, with hosts consecrated at the evening Mass of the Lord's Supper on Holy Thursday, to those participating in the Celebration of the Passion of the Lord) or on Holy Saturday before the Easter Vigil (the beginning of the celebration of Easter Sunday), in other words, between the annual celebrations of the Lord's Supper and the Resurrection of Jesus (see Easter Triduum).
Deacons, priests and bishops are required to celebrate the Liturgy of the Hours daily, but are not obligated to celebrate Mass daily. "Apart from those cases in which the law allows him to celebrate or concelebrate the Eucharist a number of times on the same day, a priest may not celebrate more than once a day" (canon 905 of the Code of Canon Law), and "a priest may not celebrate the Eucharistic Sacrifice without the participation of at least one of the faithful, unless there is a good and reasonable cause for doing so" (canon 906).
Priests may be required by their posts to celebrate Mass daily, or at least on Sundays, for the faithful in their pastoral care. The bishop of a diocese and the pastor of a parish are required to celebrate or arrange for another priest to celebrate, on every Sunday or Holy Day of Obligation, a Mass "pro populo" - that is, for the faithful entrusted to his care.
For Latin-Rite priests, there are a few general exceptions to the limitation to celebrate only one Mass a day (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, 204). By very ancient tradition, they may celebrate Mass three times at Christmas (the Midnight Mass or "Mass of the Angels", the Dawn Mass or "Shepherd's Mass", and the Day Mass or "Mass of the Divine Word", each of which has its own readings and chants).
On All Souls' Day they may also, on the basis of a privilege to all priests by Pope Benedict XV in August 1915, celebrate Mass three times; only one of the three Masses may be for the personal intentions of the priest, while the other two Masses must be applied, one for all the faithful departed, the other for the intentions of the Pope. A priest who has concelebrated the Chrism Mass, which may be held on the morning of Holy Thursday, may also celebrate or concelebrate the Mass of the Lord's Supper that evening. A priest may celebrate or concelebrate both the Mass of the Easter Vigil and Mass during Easter day (the Easter Vigil "should not begin before nightfall; it should end before daybreak on Sunday"; and may therefore take place at midnight or in the early hours of Easter morning). Finally, a priest who has concelebrated Mass at a meeting of priests or during a pastoral visitation by a bishop or a bishop's delegate, may celebrate a second Mass for the benefit of the laity.
In addition to these general permissions, the Local Ordinary may, for a good reason, permit priests to celebrate twice (they are then said to "binate," and the act is "bination") on weekdays, and three times ("trinate," and "trination") on Sundays and Holy Days (canon 905 §2). Examples would be: if a parish priest were to need to celebrate the usual, scheduled daily Mass of a parish, and a funeral later in the morning, or three Masses to accommodate all of the parishioners in a very populous parish on Sundays. In particularly difficult circumstances, the Pope can grant the diocesan bishop permission to give his priests faculties to trinate on weekdays and quadrinate on Sundays.
In many countries, the bishop's power to permit priests to celebrate two Masses on one day and three Masses on one day is widely availed of, so that it is common for priests assigned to parish ministry to celebrate at least two Masses on any given Sunday, and two Masses on several other days of the week. Permission for four Masses on one day has been obtained in order to cope with large numbers of Catholics either in mission lands or where the ranks of priests are diminishing.
The length of time that it takes to celebrate Mass varies considerably. While the Roman Rite liturgy is shorter than other liturgical rites, it may on solemn occasions - even apart from exceptional circumstances such as the Easter Vigil or an event such as ordinations - take over an hour and a half. The length of the homily is an obvious factor that contributes to the overall length. Other factors are the number of people receiving Communion and the number and length of the chants and other singing.
For most of the second millennium, before the twentieth century brought changes beginning with Pope Pius X's encouragement of frequent Communion, the usual Mass was said exactly the same way whether people other than a server were present or not. No homily was given,[27] and most often only the priest himself received Communion.[28] Moral theologians gave their opinions on how much time the priest should dedicate to celebrating a Mass, a matter on which canon law and the Roman Missal were silent. One said that an hour should not be considered too long. Several others that, in order to avoid tedium, Mass should last no more than half an hour; and in order to be said with due reverence, it should last no less than twenty minutes. Another theologian, who gave half an hour as the minimum time, considered that Mass could not be said in less than a quarter of an hour, an opinion supported by others, including Saint Alphonsus Liguori, who said that any priest who finished Mass in less than that time could scarcely be excused from mortal sin.[29]
A Mass celebrated in connection with a particular rite, such as an ordination, a wedding or a profession of religious vows, may use texts provided in the "Ritual Masses" section of the Roman Missal. The rite in question is, most often, a sacrament, but the section has special texts not only for Masses within which Baptism, Confirmation, Anointing of the Sick, Orders, and Holy Matrimony are celebrated, but also for Masses with religious profession, the dedication of a church, and several other rites. Confession (Penance or Reconciliation) is the only sacrament not celebrated within a Eucharistic framework and for which therefore no Ritual Mass is provided.
The Ritual Mass texts may not be used, except perhaps partially, when the rite is celebrated during especially important liturgical seasons or on high ranking feasts.
A Nuptial Mass[30] is a Ritual Mass within which the sacrament of Holy Matrimony is celebrated. If one of a couple being married in a Catholic church is not a Catholic, the rite of Holy Matrimony outside Mass is to be followed. However, if the non-Catholic has been baptized in the name of all three Persons of the Trinity (and not only in the name of, say, Jesus, as is the baptismal practice in some branches of Christianity), then, in exceptional cases and provided the bishop of the diocese gives permission, it may be considered suitable to celebrate the marriage within Mass, except that, according to the general law, Communion is not given to the non-Catholic (Rite of Marriage, .
"Mass" is one of many terms used to describe the Eucharist in the Anglican tradition, the others being "Holy Communion," "Holy Eucharist," "the Lord's Supper," and "the Divine Liturgy." In the English-speaking Anglican world, the term used frequently connotes the Eucharistic theology of the one using it. "Mass" is considered an Anglo-Catholic term.
The various Eucharistic liturgies used by national churches of the Anglican Communion have continuously evolved from the early editions of the Book of Common Prayer, which was loosely based upon the Pre-Tridentine Mass. The structure of the liturgies, crafted in the tradition of the Elizabethan Settlement, allows for a variety of theological interpretations, and generally follows the same rough shape. Some or all of the following elements may be altered or absent depending on the rite, the liturgical season and use of the province or national church:
The Gathering of the Community: Beginning with a Trinitarian-based greeting or seasonal acclamation; followed by the Collect for Purity; the Gloria in Excelsis Deo or some other song of praise, Kyrie eleison, and/or Trisagion; and then the collect of the day. During Lent and/or Advent especially, this part of the service may begin or end with a penitential rite.
The Proclamation of the Word: Usually two to three readings of Scripture, one of which is always from the Gospels, plus a psalm (or portion thereof) or canticle between the lessons. This is followed by a sermon or homily; the recitation of the Apostles', Nicene or Athanasian Creeds; the prayers of the congregation or a general intercession, a general confession and absolution, and the passing of the peace.
The Celebration of the Eucharist: The gifts of bread and wine are brought up, along with other gifts (such as money and/or food for a food bank, etc.), and an offertory prayer is recited. Following this, a Eucharistic Prayer (called "The Great Thanksgiving") is offered. This prayer consists of a dialogue (the Sursum Corda), a preface, the sanctus and benedictus, the Words of Institution, the Anamnesis, an Epiclesis a petition for salvation and a Doxology. The Lord's Prayer precedes the fraction (the breaking of the bread), followed by the Prayer of Humble Access and/or the Agnus Dei, and the distribution of the sacred elements (the bread and wine). After all who have desired to have received, there is a post-Communion prayer, which is a general prayer of thanksgiving. The service concludes with a Trinitarian blessing and the dismissal.
The liturgy is divided into two parts: The Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist, but the entire liturgy itself is also properly referred to as the Holy Eucharist. The parts and sequence of the liturgy are almost identical to the Roman Rite, except the Confession of Sin ends the Liturgy of the Word in the Anglican rites in North America, while in the Roman Rite and in Anglican rites in the rest of the world the Confession is near the beginning of the service.
The Anglican tradition includes separate rites for nuptial masses, funeral masses, and votive masses. The Eucharist is an integral part of many other sacramental services, including ordination and Confirmation.
A few Anglo-Catholic parishes use Anglican versions of the Tridentine Missal, such as the English Missal, The Anglican Missal, or American Missal, for the celebration of mass, all of which are intended primarily for the celebration of the Eucharist. Many Anglo-Catholic parishes in the Church of England use A Manual of Anglo-Catholic Devotion (successor to the earlier A Manual of Catholic Devotion). In the Episcopal Church USA, a traditional-language, Anglo-Catholic adaptation of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer has been published (An Anglican Service Book).
All of these books contain such features as meditations for the presiding celebrant(s) during the liturgy, and other material such as the rite for the blessing of palms on Palm Sunday, propers for special feast days, and instructions for proper ceremonial order. These books are used as a more expansively Catholic context in which to celebrate the liturgical use found in the Book of Common Prayer and related liturgical books.
These are supplemented by books specifying ceremonial actions, such as A Priest's Handbook by David Michno, Ceremonies of the Eucharist, by Howard E. Galley, and Ritual Notes by E.C.R. Lamburn. Other guides to ceremonial include the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite (Peter Elliott), Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described (Adrian Fortescue), and The Parson's Handbook (Percy Dearmer).
In the Book of Concord, Article XXIV ("Of the Mass") of the Augsburg Confession (1530) begins thus: "Falsely are our churches accused of abolishing the Mass; for the Mass is retained among us, and celebrated with the highest reverence. We do not abolish the Mass but religiously keep and defend it... we keep the traditional liturgical form... In our churches Mass is celebrated every Sunday and on other holy days, when the sacrament is offered to those who wish for it after they have been examined and absolved (Article XXIV)".
Martin Luther rejected parts of the Roman Rite Catholic Mass (specifically the Canon of the Mass), which he argued did not conform with Hebrews 7:27, which contrasts the Old Testament priests, who needed to make a sacrifice for sins on a regular basis, with the single priest Christ, who offers his body only once as a sacrifice, and also with Hebrews 9:26, 9:28, and 10:10. He composed as a replacement a revised Latin-language rite, Formula missae in 1523 and the vernacular Deutsche Messe in 1526.
In German, the Scandinavian languages, Finnish, and some English Lutherans, use the word "Mass" for their corresponding service,[31] but in most English-speaking churches, they call it the "Divine Service", "Holy Communion, or "the Holy Eucharist".
The celebration of the Mass in Lutheran churches follows a similar pattern to other traditions, starting with public confession (Confiteor) by all and a Declaration of Grace said by the priest or pastor. Followed by the Introit, Kyrie, Gloria, collect, the readings with an alleluia (alleluia is not said during Lent), homily (or sermon) and recitation of the Nicene Creed. The Service of the Eucharist includes the General intercessions, Preface, Sanctus and Eucharistic Prayer, elevation of the host and chalice and invitation to the Eucharist. The Agnus Dei is chanted while the clergy and assistants first commune followed by lay communicants. Postcommunion prayers and the final blessing by the priest ends the Mass. A Roman Catholic or Anglican would find its elements familiar, in particular the use of the sign of the cross, kneeling for prayer and the Eucharistic Prayer, bowing to the processional crucifix, kissing the altar, incense (among some), chanting, and vestments.
Lutherans are to offer the Eucharist each Sunday.[32] Also, eucharistic ministers take the sacramental elements to the sick in hospitals and nursing homes. The ancient practice of celebrating Mass each Sunday is as Martin Luther wanted and the Lutheran confessions teach is increasingly the norm in most Lutheran parishes throughout the world. This restoration of the weekly Mass has been strongly encouraged by the bishops and priests/pastors.
The celebration of the Eucharist may be included in weddings, funerals, retreats, the dedication of a church building and at annual synod conventions. The Mass is also an important aspect of ordinations and confirmations in Lutheran churches.
Some Methodists, particularly High Church parishioners, use the term "Mass" the liturgical celebration of the Holy Eucharist. Their celebration differs from that of Catholic churches and consists of responsive readings from the liturgy, songs from the Methodist Hymnal, responsive hymns, cantoring, a homily, receiving the sacraments of the Holy Eucharist, and prayer. Methodist mass is usually celebrated, depending on the parish, weekly or monthly. It is also performed on holy days such as Maundy Thursday or Christmas Eve.[33] The receiving of the Holy Eucharist is open to anyone. In fact, Methodist ministers often use the liturgical saying, "Christ invites to His table all who earnestly repent of their sins and seek to live in peace with one another."
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:09 pm; edited 5 times in total
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
I am very upset about Fukushima. I suspect deliberate infliction. I have a variety of reasons for saying this - but I prefer not to talk about it. I think the bad-guys might be on their way out - and that they are not going to go quietly. Even if we survive this wave of retribution - and experience a positive changing of the guard - we could still experience scuttling in absentia. I think we are in for some very difficult times. I don't think this transitional period has to be hard - but that it will be made hard by those who have absolutely no compassion. I so hope that I'm wrong.
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
How should I proceed with the following list?
1. The Teachings of Jesus.
2. The U.S. Constitution.
3. The Latin Mass.
4. The Classical Sacred Music.
5. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System.
What if Representatives of the United States of the Solar System were required to memorize the Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus and the U.S. Constitution? Would this be considered to be a religious test - or simply a mental exercise to prepare them to properly govern the solar system? I don't think the Teachings of Jesus or the U.S. Constitution are perfect - but I think they are very good - especially if one considers when they were written, and under what circumstances. They are sort of a line in the sand for me. Governance does involve some arbitrariness. Sometimes a decision is required - even if it makes no one happy. This five point list might be such a situation. I am trying to think about all of this by imagining that I am interacting with the Jesuit General aka Black Pope - on a daily basis - to implement these five points in an evolutionary (rather than a revolutionary) manner. I realize that this is an illusion of grandeur or self-aggrandizing arrogance perhaps - but it sure is fun! It's also very scary. I'm also trying to think about all of this by imagining that I am part of an up and running United States of the Solar System. This is rather hard to do - and I'm not sure exactly how to proceed. I'm trying not to get caught-up in the day to day political battles - but I'm also trying to think of solar system governance in down to earth terms - rather than being pie in the sky. I'd probably have that 90 square-foot apartment a couple of miles from the Vatican, and communicate with the Jesuit General via secure internet (if there is such a thing!). We might meet once a month for lunch, or something. I prefer thinking in these terms, rather than being angry all the time. Engaging in this sort of activity really might be quite boring and un-glamorous. It might be fun at first, but I think the novelty would soon wear off.
In a Vatican-Based United States of the Solar System - how would one separate the religous from the political? Would one separate the religious from the political? I would think that there would be two branches of this hypothetical system - one religious and one political - with a Pope and a President. The Pope would preside over the contemporary application of the Teachings of Jesus - and the President would preside over the contemporary application of the U.S. Constitution. There would, of course, be some overlap. This is a very, very sticky subject. What if there were two nearly identical governments - one religious, and one political - both using the U.S. Constitution as the governmental modus operandi? What if there were 10,000 religious representatives, and 10,000 political representatives - with say 1,000 from each group actually attending daily sessions at the Vatican. The others would participate electronically from throughout the solar system. Once again, wouldn't this sort of thing make just about everyone in the solar system LIVID??? But don't stone me just yet. This is a test. This is only a test. Imagine a meeting place similar to the Audience Hall - just for fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6WJP7gDKAo
All of this helps to bring various governmental and religious issues to light - regardless of how solar system governance is presently structured - or how it will be structured in the future. Probably the St. Mary's Cathedral, Crystal Cathedral, or St. Ouen locations for the United States of the Solar System Capitol Building would be best. The modus operandi of the Vatican is probably not going to change very quickly - regardless of the brilliant transformative ideas of completely ignorant fools like me. The United States of the Solar System, on the other hand, would basically replace the Secret Government and the United Nations - rather than meddling with the Vatican. My thought is that the United States of the Solar System should not engage in trench-warfare with the Vatican. They should be on the same page - and cooperate with each other. This was really the Genesis of the Conceptual Vatican-Based United States of the Solar System. The church/state issues really have to be examined closely. Getting it wrong could be catastrophic - and could degenerate into a really nasty theocracy - which could be very difficult to undo. This conceptualization is really born of insecurity rather than a know-it-all attitude. I know very little - but I am trying to learn. I might discover, at some point, that everything is fine, and that top people have everything under control. That would be a relief. Is anyone taking any of this seriously? Why will no one talk to me? The water's warm! Come-on in! Don't just laugh at me, spy on me, or supernaturally attack me. I think too many people know way too much about me - and that there is a substantial invasion of privacy. You know what I'm talking about. I could say a lot more about this, but I would rather not do so at this point in time.
Anyway, this is more of an attempt to change myself, than it is to change anyone else. I'm not stubbornly strutting into no-man's land, where angels fear to tread. I am simply trying to deal with all of the lies and problems in this solar system. I have no particular desire to wake people up, or to gain a following. I'm truly trying to understand what's really going on - and to help make positive changes which might be of benefit to everyone - including the Queen of Heaven / God of This World. But it's really hard to make substantial progress while continuing to fly-blind. Things are further complicated by my not trusting anyone (even myself) - so I'm rather paranoid - and I think someone might be out to get me - just on the basis of what I have posted on the internet. I should probably leave all of this alone - but I don't have a lot of confidence in the existing Powers That Be (human or otherwise). Just because someone has the ablity to rise to the top - doesn't mean that they belong at the top. Just because someone is non-productive - because they are completely disillusioned with everything - doesn't mean that they don't belong at the top. Just because someone knows how to throw their weight around - doesn't mean that they should - or that they should be richly rewarded for doing so. Just look at the history of the world. Just watch the news. Think about what I just said.
Just as an afterthought - perhaps a Non-Vatican Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - headquartered at the bankrupt Crystal Cathedral - would be a most attractive option - at least as a place to begin. Here is an interesting segment featuring Robert A. Schuller (son of Robert H. Schuller). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws0GM67lK5g&NR=1 Using the Crystal Cathedral - which is quite the secularized contemporary cathedral - would avoid the church/state and antichrist issues which would be associated with using a deconsecrated Roman Catholic church. I have spent hundreds of hours on the campus of the Crystal Cathedral (a long time ago) - and I am mostly in harmony with it's basic message and goals (although I really haven't been able to put them into practice - despite my best efforts). I simply do not wish to kick sand in anyone's face - despite some of my irreverent internet posts. Once again - this thread is mostly my attempt to get everyone thinking - including myself. I don't really know what to do, or where to go, but I am sure there are those who would be happy to tell me where to go. What would Raven say? @#$%^*&$@^!!!!???
1. The Teachings of Jesus.
2. The U.S. Constitution.
3. The Latin Mass.
4. The Classical Sacred Music.
5. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System.
What if Representatives of the United States of the Solar System were required to memorize the Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus and the U.S. Constitution? Would this be considered to be a religious test - or simply a mental exercise to prepare them to properly govern the solar system? I don't think the Teachings of Jesus or the U.S. Constitution are perfect - but I think they are very good - especially if one considers when they were written, and under what circumstances. They are sort of a line in the sand for me. Governance does involve some arbitrariness. Sometimes a decision is required - even if it makes no one happy. This five point list might be such a situation. I am trying to think about all of this by imagining that I am interacting with the Jesuit General aka Black Pope - on a daily basis - to implement these five points in an evolutionary (rather than a revolutionary) manner. I realize that this is an illusion of grandeur or self-aggrandizing arrogance perhaps - but it sure is fun! It's also very scary. I'm also trying to think about all of this by imagining that I am part of an up and running United States of the Solar System. This is rather hard to do - and I'm not sure exactly how to proceed. I'm trying not to get caught-up in the day to day political battles - but I'm also trying to think of solar system governance in down to earth terms - rather than being pie in the sky. I'd probably have that 90 square-foot apartment a couple of miles from the Vatican, and communicate with the Jesuit General via secure internet (if there is such a thing!). We might meet once a month for lunch, or something. I prefer thinking in these terms, rather than being angry all the time. Engaging in this sort of activity really might be quite boring and un-glamorous. It might be fun at first, but I think the novelty would soon wear off.
In a Vatican-Based United States of the Solar System - how would one separate the religous from the political? Would one separate the religious from the political? I would think that there would be two branches of this hypothetical system - one religious and one political - with a Pope and a President. The Pope would preside over the contemporary application of the Teachings of Jesus - and the President would preside over the contemporary application of the U.S. Constitution. There would, of course, be some overlap. This is a very, very sticky subject. What if there were two nearly identical governments - one religious, and one political - both using the U.S. Constitution as the governmental modus operandi? What if there were 10,000 religious representatives, and 10,000 political representatives - with say 1,000 from each group actually attending daily sessions at the Vatican. The others would participate electronically from throughout the solar system. Once again, wouldn't this sort of thing make just about everyone in the solar system LIVID??? But don't stone me just yet. This is a test. This is only a test. Imagine a meeting place similar to the Audience Hall - just for fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6WJP7gDKAo
All of this helps to bring various governmental and religious issues to light - regardless of how solar system governance is presently structured - or how it will be structured in the future. Probably the St. Mary's Cathedral, Crystal Cathedral, or St. Ouen locations for the United States of the Solar System Capitol Building would be best. The modus operandi of the Vatican is probably not going to change very quickly - regardless of the brilliant transformative ideas of completely ignorant fools like me. The United States of the Solar System, on the other hand, would basically replace the Secret Government and the United Nations - rather than meddling with the Vatican. My thought is that the United States of the Solar System should not engage in trench-warfare with the Vatican. They should be on the same page - and cooperate with each other. This was really the Genesis of the Conceptual Vatican-Based United States of the Solar System. The church/state issues really have to be examined closely. Getting it wrong could be catastrophic - and could degenerate into a really nasty theocracy - which could be very difficult to undo. This conceptualization is really born of insecurity rather than a know-it-all attitude. I know very little - but I am trying to learn. I might discover, at some point, that everything is fine, and that top people have everything under control. That would be a relief. Is anyone taking any of this seriously? Why will no one talk to me? The water's warm! Come-on in! Don't just laugh at me, spy on me, or supernaturally attack me. I think too many people know way too much about me - and that there is a substantial invasion of privacy. You know what I'm talking about. I could say a lot more about this, but I would rather not do so at this point in time.
Anyway, this is more of an attempt to change myself, than it is to change anyone else. I'm not stubbornly strutting into no-man's land, where angels fear to tread. I am simply trying to deal with all of the lies and problems in this solar system. I have no particular desire to wake people up, or to gain a following. I'm truly trying to understand what's really going on - and to help make positive changes which might be of benefit to everyone - including the Queen of Heaven / God of This World. But it's really hard to make substantial progress while continuing to fly-blind. Things are further complicated by my not trusting anyone (even myself) - so I'm rather paranoid - and I think someone might be out to get me - just on the basis of what I have posted on the internet. I should probably leave all of this alone - but I don't have a lot of confidence in the existing Powers That Be (human or otherwise). Just because someone has the ablity to rise to the top - doesn't mean that they belong at the top. Just because someone is non-productive - because they are completely disillusioned with everything - doesn't mean that they don't belong at the top. Just because someone knows how to throw their weight around - doesn't mean that they should - or that they should be richly rewarded for doing so. Just look at the history of the world. Just watch the news. Think about what I just said.
Just as an afterthought - perhaps a Non-Vatican Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - headquartered at the bankrupt Crystal Cathedral - would be a most attractive option - at least as a place to begin. Here is an interesting segment featuring Robert A. Schuller (son of Robert H. Schuller). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws0GM67lK5g&NR=1 Using the Crystal Cathedral - which is quite the secularized contemporary cathedral - would avoid the church/state and antichrist issues which would be associated with using a deconsecrated Roman Catholic church. I have spent hundreds of hours on the campus of the Crystal Cathedral (a long time ago) - and I am mostly in harmony with it's basic message and goals (although I really haven't been able to put them into practice - despite my best efforts). I simply do not wish to kick sand in anyone's face - despite some of my irreverent internet posts. Once again - this thread is mostly my attempt to get everyone thinking - including myself. I don't really know what to do, or where to go, but I am sure there are those who would be happy to tell me where to go. What would Raven say? @#$%^*&$@^!!!!???
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:31 pm; edited 4 times in total
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
As many of you know, the Crystal Cathedral continues to face serious financial problems, but I found an interesting editorial in the Huffington Post, written by one of my favorite preachers (Tony Campolo) - about one of my favorite preachers (Robert Schuller). http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-campolo/stone-throwing-at-a-glass_b_834134.html
As the news of the financial woes of the Crystal Cathedral is heralded across the country and around the world, a host of critical voices have been raised, at times condemning the cost of building the Crystal Cathedral and even raising serious concerns over the message of its former pastor, Dr. Robert Schuller.
The most common attack has come from those who contend that the money spent on building the Crystal Cathedral was not justified. It has been said that the $20 million spent to construct the Crystal Cathedral would have been better spent on such missionary concerns as helping the poor and the oppressed of the world. Before considering the justification for that accusation, however, critics should consider the millions of people who have worshiped at the Crystal Cathedral, Sunday after Sunday, over the years. On a per capita basis, it can easily be proved that less money was spent on this building than has been spent by most congregations on their respective facilities. In most cases with other churches, the buildings are only used once a week, and these congregations can easily be accused of inefficient expenditures, given how seldom their facilities are employed for either religious services or community events.
The Crystal Cathedral, in addition to the Sunday morning worship service, also houses one of the largest Hispanic congregations in America. Each Sunday thousands and thousands of Hispanic worshipers gather at the Crystal Cathedral for a special service in their own language. The church also has maintained an extensive ministry to Hispanic youth in its immediate neighborhood. Also, consider that the only Pakistani congregation that I know of in North America (there may be several others), finds a place at the Crystal Cathedral to come together for worship and to organize for Christian service.
Recently, I went over the list of activities that are part of the ongoing ministries of the Crystal Cathedral. These include classes for those who are learning English as a second language, a host of counseling services and even programs that reach into Los Angeles with help for the homeless. The list of programs sponsored by the Crystal Cathedral is too long to list them all. Let's not forget that this church also supports one of the finest Christian schools in southern California, meeting a real need for quality Christian education.
It is quite true that there has been great shrinkage in attendance at the Sunday morning worship services at the Crystal Cathedral. A sanctuary which was once packed with thousands each Sunday now only shows a few hundred at each of its two Sunday morning services, but there are sociological reasons for this decline. The Crystal Cathedral, located in Garden Grove, was once set in the midst of a middle class, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant community from which it received great support. This community has changed, however, and today Garden Grove is a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood. Consequently, the Crystal Cathedral has lost a large part of its congregation, not because Robert Schuller's message is irrelevant to the needs of people in today's society, but because, like many churches, the community that it once served has changed. The good news is that the Crystal Cathedral responded by embracing neighboring Hispanic people with an array of specialized, needed ministries. Sadly, those ministries have not provided much income -- certainly not enough to keep the Crystal Cathedral out of bankruptcy.
The final criticism that must be addressed is the claim that the positive message of Robert Schuller belongs to another place and another time. At least that was the criticism leveled at his preaching by the well-known Evangelical magazine, Christianity Today. The criticism that Dr. Schuller's messages have been nothing more than a watered down versions of optimistic pop psychology, given that his major theme is what he calls "possibility thinking," is unfair. It might be said that a holistic Gospel requires more than the upbeat messages heard on the "Hour of Power, but any reading of Scripture will provide solid evidence to support what Robert Schuller preaches. He gives to his listeners a message of hope when, for many of them, all seems hopeless. He echoes the message of the Apostle Paul who, in 2 Corinthians 4:8-9, declares that with God's help, when we are crushed and beaten down by life's circumstances, we are not driven to despair. Even his most severe critics will have to admit that Dr. Schuller is biblically sound when he declares that there are still possibilities for good things to be created out of the desperate situations in which we find ourselves. Because of such a positive message, many who have been turned off by hellfire and damnation preaching have been turned on to God by the positive messages that Dr. Schuller preached from the pulpit of the Crystal Cathedral Sunday after Sunday. Robert Schuller affirms that there is a place for preachers who preach in ways that drive sinners to repentance, but he asks that all of us recognize that there is also a place for preachers who emphasize the affirmation and hope that can be had through Christ Jesus.
Lastly, I want to say, in no uncertain terms, that while the Sunday morning congregation in Garden Grove's Crystal Cathedral may be relatively sparse these days and its financial situation has become severe, it cannot be denied that the "Hour of Power" television show still inspires those millions of people around the world who have made this program a major source of spiritual strength. It is a program that not only reaches those who live in western nations, but which is broadcast across the Middle East, where Muslim people, who seldom hear the good news of the Gospel, hear it from the Crystal Cathedral on a regular basis.
I don't know whether the ministries of this church will survive. I know that Robert Schuller would like to walk away from all its problems and retire, as he justly deserves to do, but he feels that he cannot leave at this time of crisis. Whatever happens, it is my belief that one day, some day, Robert Schuller will hear applause from a pair of nail-pierced hands.
As the news of the financial woes of the Crystal Cathedral is heralded across the country and around the world, a host of critical voices have been raised, at times condemning the cost of building the Crystal Cathedral and even raising serious concerns over the message of its former pastor, Dr. Robert Schuller.
The most common attack has come from those who contend that the money spent on building the Crystal Cathedral was not justified. It has been said that the $20 million spent to construct the Crystal Cathedral would have been better spent on such missionary concerns as helping the poor and the oppressed of the world. Before considering the justification for that accusation, however, critics should consider the millions of people who have worshiped at the Crystal Cathedral, Sunday after Sunday, over the years. On a per capita basis, it can easily be proved that less money was spent on this building than has been spent by most congregations on their respective facilities. In most cases with other churches, the buildings are only used once a week, and these congregations can easily be accused of inefficient expenditures, given how seldom their facilities are employed for either religious services or community events.
The Crystal Cathedral, in addition to the Sunday morning worship service, also houses one of the largest Hispanic congregations in America. Each Sunday thousands and thousands of Hispanic worshipers gather at the Crystal Cathedral for a special service in their own language. The church also has maintained an extensive ministry to Hispanic youth in its immediate neighborhood. Also, consider that the only Pakistani congregation that I know of in North America (there may be several others), finds a place at the Crystal Cathedral to come together for worship and to organize for Christian service.
Recently, I went over the list of activities that are part of the ongoing ministries of the Crystal Cathedral. These include classes for those who are learning English as a second language, a host of counseling services and even programs that reach into Los Angeles with help for the homeless. The list of programs sponsored by the Crystal Cathedral is too long to list them all. Let's not forget that this church also supports one of the finest Christian schools in southern California, meeting a real need for quality Christian education.
It is quite true that there has been great shrinkage in attendance at the Sunday morning worship services at the Crystal Cathedral. A sanctuary which was once packed with thousands each Sunday now only shows a few hundred at each of its two Sunday morning services, but there are sociological reasons for this decline. The Crystal Cathedral, located in Garden Grove, was once set in the midst of a middle class, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant community from which it received great support. This community has changed, however, and today Garden Grove is a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood. Consequently, the Crystal Cathedral has lost a large part of its congregation, not because Robert Schuller's message is irrelevant to the needs of people in today's society, but because, like many churches, the community that it once served has changed. The good news is that the Crystal Cathedral responded by embracing neighboring Hispanic people with an array of specialized, needed ministries. Sadly, those ministries have not provided much income -- certainly not enough to keep the Crystal Cathedral out of bankruptcy.
The final criticism that must be addressed is the claim that the positive message of Robert Schuller belongs to another place and another time. At least that was the criticism leveled at his preaching by the well-known Evangelical magazine, Christianity Today. The criticism that Dr. Schuller's messages have been nothing more than a watered down versions of optimistic pop psychology, given that his major theme is what he calls "possibility thinking," is unfair. It might be said that a holistic Gospel requires more than the upbeat messages heard on the "Hour of Power, but any reading of Scripture will provide solid evidence to support what Robert Schuller preaches. He gives to his listeners a message of hope when, for many of them, all seems hopeless. He echoes the message of the Apostle Paul who, in 2 Corinthians 4:8-9, declares that with God's help, when we are crushed and beaten down by life's circumstances, we are not driven to despair. Even his most severe critics will have to admit that Dr. Schuller is biblically sound when he declares that there are still possibilities for good things to be created out of the desperate situations in which we find ourselves. Because of such a positive message, many who have been turned off by hellfire and damnation preaching have been turned on to God by the positive messages that Dr. Schuller preached from the pulpit of the Crystal Cathedral Sunday after Sunday. Robert Schuller affirms that there is a place for preachers who preach in ways that drive sinners to repentance, but he asks that all of us recognize that there is also a place for preachers who emphasize the affirmation and hope that can be had through Christ Jesus.
Lastly, I want to say, in no uncertain terms, that while the Sunday morning congregation in Garden Grove's Crystal Cathedral may be relatively sparse these days and its financial situation has become severe, it cannot be denied that the "Hour of Power" television show still inspires those millions of people around the world who have made this program a major source of spiritual strength. It is a program that not only reaches those who live in western nations, but which is broadcast across the Middle East, where Muslim people, who seldom hear the good news of the Gospel, hear it from the Crystal Cathedral on a regular basis.
I don't know whether the ministries of this church will survive. I know that Robert Schuller would like to walk away from all its problems and retire, as he justly deserves to do, but he feels that he cannot leave at this time of crisis. Whatever happens, it is my belief that one day, some day, Robert Schuller will hear applause from a pair of nail-pierced hands.
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
I've probably said it several times - but here I go again - I think there is a high probability that we reincarnate over and over, back into human physicality - here in this solar system - and that this solar system might be where we have to make our bed, and sleep in it - whether we like it, or not. We might exist, by a thread, in a mostly hostile universe. I'm not expecting a rescue from the stars - complete with a mass evacuation of humanity to 'heaven'. I used to think that the faithful few would be saved by God and the Angels - and taken to Heaven - but that most of the human race would be exterminated because of unbelief, insubordination, and unbridled rebellion. I now think that we have been lied to about a lot of things - but that the truth might be very hard for us to hear and accept. I'm not even sure what that truth is - but it seems to involve an ancient and ongoing Civil War in Heaven and Earth - which might involve Interdimensional Reptilian Souls Incarnating into Mammalian/Reptilian Hybrid Bodies With Varying Mammal/Reptile Percentage Differentials. You know - the Hatfields vs the McCoys - or the 70% Mammal/30% Reptiles (male and female) vs the 30% Mammal/70% Reptiles (hermaphrodite). We might all be Fallen Angels (fallen into physicality, in pursuit of responsible freedom) and literally Born Into Sin by choosing to commit this Original and Unpardonable Sin. This thread is all about us not being enslaved or exterminated - by interdimensionals, terrestrials, or extraterrestrials. I sense that we are in a very grave situation - but I don't know the details. What if a Non-Corrupted, Non-Infiltrated, Non-Subverted 3D Male and Female Humanity is as good as it gets - anywhere in the universe??? Watch this 1994 Alex Collier interview, in light of this post (and this thread), but hurry - this video will be removed on April 29. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8316692185126189734# I'm still at the level of considering possibilities and probabilities. I don't know anything for certain. That's why I am merely posting on a small website to people who have mostly tired of listening to my incessant bullshit. Please forgive me for being unfriendly, aloof, ignorant, stubborn, egotistical, pompous, supercilious, irrelevant, irreverent, rebellious, repetitious, ball-kicking, back-stabbing, for having a messy house, for not being able to balance my checkbook, and for swearing to the point that my dog leaves the room, etc, etc, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMUXUQpPdaE&NR=1&feature=fvwp Mea Culpa. Kyrie Eleison. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVEBBjETeZw
US v US???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMUXUQpPdaE&NR=1&feature=fvwp Mea Culpa. Kyrie Eleison. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVEBBjETeZw
US v US???
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
This thread won't do much good - unless it is Agonized Over - long term. It is really a mental and spiritual gymnasium - and not for entertainment purposes. I think a lot of people need to do a lot of research - before they do much of anything else. We need to really digest the new information - and separate fact from fiction - and really let it settle in our souls - before we try to do anything dramatic. This whole thing is going to take a lot of time and a lot of pain. We shouldn't expect any quick and easy solutions.
Unrelatedly, regarding a previous post which touched upon the Crystal Cathedral, if this became the Headquarters of the United States of the Solar System, the positive ministry might be continued, on a shoestring budget, by dressing up classic Schuller sermons, focusing on the principles and concepts, rather than on particular personalities, and simply have someone read them (using a teleprompter) in a theatrical manner reminiscent of Robert H. Schuller. The music could mostly involve the congregational singing of hymns, with the alternative verses and accompaniments used at the Crystal Cathedral throughout the years. I always thought these two aspects were the best parts of the services - so why not accentuate the positive? (I used to enjoy singing in the choir! I liked Mark a lot - but I liked Fred almost as much as the cat and the cat's meow! May La Force '64 be with you!) 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7g3af7Wvz4&feature=related&fmt=18 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX2E8JW60rw&NR=1&fmt=18 Most of the television presence might be replaced by an internet presence. If anyone is negotiating - include books, sermons, and rebroadcast rights in the talks! Someone, please talk to Dr. Schuller! Tell him that a friend of Bruce Larson sent you! Just kidding! Or am I?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJFMERQZlFo&feature=fvwrel The United States of the Solar System might use the cathedral, Monday through Friday - and then the cathedral part of the campus could be opened to the general public on the weekends. The best might be just ahead! 'Move Ahead With Possibility Thinking!' (one of Schuller's best books, by the way) Imagine 3,000 Representatives of the United States of the Solar System singing the hymns linked below - before making the important decisions which would affect everyone throughout the solar system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO27RJniWKg&feature=related&fmt=18 This thought made me cry...
One more thing. Consider reading through this entire thread - out-loud - using the speaking-style of Robert H. Schuller. You might be surprised at how well the two go together! Is this an accident? Or was it by design? I'll never tell...
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo4ARnNlgAQ&feature=related&fmt=18
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce7OcEG0m0I&fmt=18
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT7s49GeLMc&feature=related&fmt=18
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hibaSFTLMHE&feature=related&fmt=18
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5m48vG2q2E&feature=related&fmt=18
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLZmCrEa1xs&feature=related&fmt=18 (Research the origins of this hymn)
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzA2k1SiLJk&feature=related&fmt=18
8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S8Zzs8O7Go&feature=related&fmt=18
9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQrI2591joI&feature=related&fmt=18
10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nClXAPzkoKs&feature=related&fmt=18
11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO27RJniWKg&feature=related&fmt=18
Unrelatedly, regarding a previous post which touched upon the Crystal Cathedral, if this became the Headquarters of the United States of the Solar System, the positive ministry might be continued, on a shoestring budget, by dressing up classic Schuller sermons, focusing on the principles and concepts, rather than on particular personalities, and simply have someone read them (using a teleprompter) in a theatrical manner reminiscent of Robert H. Schuller. The music could mostly involve the congregational singing of hymns, with the alternative verses and accompaniments used at the Crystal Cathedral throughout the years. I always thought these two aspects were the best parts of the services - so why not accentuate the positive? (I used to enjoy singing in the choir! I liked Mark a lot - but I liked Fred almost as much as the cat and the cat's meow! May La Force '64 be with you!) 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7g3af7Wvz4&feature=related&fmt=18 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX2E8JW60rw&NR=1&fmt=18 Most of the television presence might be replaced by an internet presence. If anyone is negotiating - include books, sermons, and rebroadcast rights in the talks! Someone, please talk to Dr. Schuller! Tell him that a friend of Bruce Larson sent you! Just kidding! Or am I?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJFMERQZlFo&feature=fvwrel The United States of the Solar System might use the cathedral, Monday through Friday - and then the cathedral part of the campus could be opened to the general public on the weekends. The best might be just ahead! 'Move Ahead With Possibility Thinking!' (one of Schuller's best books, by the way) Imagine 3,000 Representatives of the United States of the Solar System singing the hymns linked below - before making the important decisions which would affect everyone throughout the solar system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO27RJniWKg&feature=related&fmt=18 This thought made me cry...
One more thing. Consider reading through this entire thread - out-loud - using the speaking-style of Robert H. Schuller. You might be surprised at how well the two go together! Is this an accident? Or was it by design? I'll never tell...
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo4ARnNlgAQ&feature=related&fmt=18
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce7OcEG0m0I&fmt=18
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT7s49GeLMc&feature=related&fmt=18
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hibaSFTLMHE&feature=related&fmt=18
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5m48vG2q2E&feature=related&fmt=18
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLZmCrEa1xs&feature=related&fmt=18 (Research the origins of this hymn)
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzA2k1SiLJk&feature=related&fmt=18
8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S8Zzs8O7Go&feature=related&fmt=18
9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQrI2591joI&feature=related&fmt=18
10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nClXAPzkoKs&feature=related&fmt=18
11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO27RJniWKg&feature=related&fmt=18
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
Here's a bit of a lighter moment, regarding governance. I wasn't a fan of the Bush Administration - but I considered 'W' to be an errand person - rather than a mastermind. Senior was another matter. BTW - I don't endorse throwing shoes at Presidents - or anyone else, for that matter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAKdn2wd0UY&feature=fvwrel Now! If someone could get Ellie to read the Four Gospels on a series of You Tube videos - a whole lotta guys would suddenly become very Christ-Like - and the world would suddenly become a better place! Then, if I could convince her to read the contents of this thread on a series of You Tube videos - that would be one giant leap for solar system governance! If she did that - perhaps I could convince her to - never mind...
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
I now introduce to you 'The Law of God'. What is the Law of God? Is it the Ten Commandments in Exodus, chapter 20? Is it ALL of the Old Testament Commands of God? Is it the Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus? Is it ALL of the New Testament Commands of God? Is it ALL of the Commands of God in all 66 books of the Biblical Canon? Does it include Canon Law? Does it include the Pope Speaking Ex Cathedra? Does it include the Writings of Ellen White? What is the nature of the Law-Giving God? What is the nature of Jesus Christ? What is the nature of the Holy Spirit? Must the Law of God be Perfectly Obeyed? Can the Law of God be Perfectly Obeyed? Does anyone even give a damn regarding all of the above? I do - but I am VERY DISILLUSIONED - to say the least.
An orderly society requires authority, law, and order - even if a lot of free-spirit new agers don't think so. But the standard seems to be very unstable and blurred to me. I am trying to determine absolute ethics relative to situation ethics. I once spoke with Joseph Fletcher - who wrote the controversial book 'Situation Ethics'. He privately told me that Christianity was BS. I only partially agreed. I think the standard is within the Teachings of Jesus - but that Christianity is Insubordinate to the Words of Christ. I finally arrived at the word 'RESPONSIBILITY' as being the underlying principle in the Teachings of Jesus. Even though I think this single word is the absolute standard - this is a hugely complex study. There are too few people who really agonize over right and wrong. Am I right, or wrong? You know, what might damn people, in the end, is not whether they were right or wrong, but rather whether they gave a damn, or not. Think about THAT.
When I speak of a Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - I am not just randomly throwing a bunch of unrelated words together - and repeating them over and over and over - to be some sort of a damn smart alec. This represents a minimalist-principled union of church and state which just might work. I actually want a World Order. In fact, I want a Solar System - which guarantees Responsible Freedom - but no one really seems to give a damn...
The following is the chapter 'God's Law Immutable' in the book 'Great Controversy' by Ellen White. I agree with a lot of the Ellen White material - but I honestly do pick and choose. I prefer to stick as close as possible to the material presented in her book 'Desire of Ages' regarding the Life and Teachings of Jesus - but I much prefer to read the actual Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus - and then arrive at my own conclusions. I continue to think that theology is at the center of everything - but that it is a VERY messy subject - with rampant divergent opinions and controversies - especially in modernity. This could lead to a Catastrophic Failure of Humanity on Planet Earth. Consider listening to a Latin Mass while reading the following. Talk about combining opposites! Again, this is another example of why I call myself 'orthodoxymoron' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE&feature=related
"The temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament." Revelation 11:19. The ark of God's testament is in the holy of holies, the second apartment of the sanctuary. In the ministration of the earthly tabernacle, which served "unto the example and shadow of heavenly things," this apartment was opened only upon the great Day of Atonement for the cleansing of the sanctuary. Therefore the announcement that the temple of God was opened in heaven and the ark of His testament was seen points to the opening of the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary in 1844 as Christ entered there to perform the closing work of the atonement. Those who by faith followed their great High Priest as He entered upon His ministry in the most holy place, beheld the ark of His testament. As they had studied the subject of the sanctuary they had come to understand the Saviour's change of ministration, and they saw that He was now officiating before the ark of God, pleading His blood in behalf of sinners. {GC 433.1}
The ark in the tabernacle on earth contained the two tables of stone, upon which were inscribed the precepts of the law of God. The ark was merely a receptacle for the tables of the law, and the presence of these divine precepts gave to it its value and sacredness. When the temple of God was opened in heaven, the ark of His testament was seen. [434] Within the holy of holies, in the sanctuary in heaven, the divine law is sacredly enshrined—the law that was spoken by God Himself amid the thunders of Sinai and written with His own finger on the tables of stone. {GC 433.2}
The law of God in the sanctuary in heaven is the great original, of which the precepts inscribed upon the tables of stone and recorded by Moses in the Pentateuch were an unerring transcript. Those who arrived at an understanding of this important point were thus led to see the sacred, unchanging character of the divine law. They saw, as never before, the force of the Saviour's words: "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law." Matthew 5:18. The law of God, being a revelation of His will, a transcript of His character, must forever endure, "as a faithful witness in heaven." Not one command has been annulled; not a jot or tittle has been changed. Says the psalmist: "Forever, O Lord, Thy word is settled in heaven." "All His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever." Psalm 119:89; 111:7, 8. {GC 434.1}
In the very bosom of the Decalogue is the fourth commandment, as it was first proclaimed: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:8-11. {GC 434.2}
The Spirit of God impressed the hearts of those students of His word. The conviction was urged upon them that they had ignorantly transgressed this precept by disregarding the Creator's rest day. They began to examine the reasons for observing the first day of the week instead of the day which God had sanctified. They could find no evidence in the [435] Scriptures that the fourth commandment had been abolished, or that the Sabbath had been changed; the blessing which first hallowed the seventh day had never been removed. They had been honestly seeking to know and to do God's will; now, as they saw themselves transgressors of His law, sorrow filled their hearts, and they manifested their loyalty to God by keeping His Sabbath holy. {GC 434.3}
Many and earnest were the efforts made to overthrow their faith. None could fail to see that if the earthly sanctuary was a figure or pattern of the heavenly, the law deposited in the ark on earth was an exact transcript of the law in the ark in heaven; and that an acceptance of the truth concerning the heavenly sanctuary involved an acknowledgment of the claims of God's law and the obligation of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. Here was the secret of the bitter and determined opposition to the harmonious exposition of the Scriptures that revealed the ministration of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Men sought to close the door which God had opened, and to open the door which He had closed. But "He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth," had declared: "Behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it." Revelation 3:7, 8. Christ had opened the door, or ministration, of the most holy place, light was shining from that open door of the sanctuary in heaven, and the fourth commandment was shown to be included in the law which is there enshrined; what God had established, no man could overthrow. {GC 435.1}
Those who had accepted the light concerning the mediation of Christ and the perpetuity of the law of God found that these were the truths presented in Revelation 14. The messages of this chapter constitute a threefold warning (see Appendix) which is to prepare the inhabitants of the earth for the Lord's second coming. The announcement, "The hour of His judgment is come," points to the closing work of Christ's ministration for the salvation of men. It heralds a [436] truth which must be proclaimed until the Saviour's intercession shall cease and He shall return to the earth to take His people to Himself. The work of judgment which began in 1844 must continue until the cases of all are decided, both of the living and the dead; hence it will extend to the close of human probation. That men may be prepared to stand in the judgment, the message commands them to "fear God, and give glory to Him," "and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." The result of an acceptance of these messages is given in the word: "Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." In order to be prepared for the judgment, it is necessary that men should keep the law of God. That law will be the standard of character in the judgment. The apostle Paul declares: "As many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law, . . . in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ." And he says that "the doers of the law shall be justified." Romans 2:12-16. Faith is essential in order to the keeping of the law of God; for "without faith it is impossible to please Him." And "whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Hebrews 11:6; Romans 14:23. {GC 435.2}
By the first angel, men are called upon to "fear God, and give glory to Him" and to worship Him as the Creator of the heavens and the earth. In order to do this, they must obey His law. Says the wise man: "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." Ecclesiastes 12:13. Without obedience to His commandments no worship can be pleasing to God. "This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments." "He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination." 1 John 5:3; Proverbs 28:9. {GC 436.1}
The duty to worship God is based upon the fact that He is the Creator and that to Him all other beings owe their existence. And wherever, in the Bible, His claim to reverence and worship, above the gods of the heathen, is presented, [437] there is cited the evidence of His creative power. "All the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens." Psalm 96:5. "To whom then will ye liken Me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things." "Thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God Himself that formed the earth and made it: . . . I am the Lord; and there is none else." Isaiah 40:25, 26; 45:18. Says the psalmist: "Know ye that the Lord He is God: it is He that hath made us, and not we ourselves." "O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our Maker." Psalm 100:3; 95:6. And the holy beings who worship God in heaven state, as the reason why their homage is due to Him: "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for Thou hast created all things." Revelation 4:11. {GC 436.2}
In Revelation 14, men are called upon to worship the Creator; and the prophecy brings to view a class that, as the result of the threefold message, are keeping the commandments of God. One of these commandments points directly to God as the Creator. The fourth precept declares: "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: . . . for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:10, 11. Concerning the Sabbath, the Lord says, further, that it is "a sign, . . . that ye may know that I am the Lord your God." Ezekiel 20:20. And the reason given is: "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed." Exodus 31:17. {GC 437.1}
"The importance of the Sabbath as the memorial of creation is that it keeps ever present the true reason why worship is due to God"—because He is the Creator, and we are His creatures. "The Sabbath therefore lies at the very foundation of divine worship, for it teaches this great truth in the most impressive manner, and no other institution does this. The true ground of divine worship, not of that on the seventh day [438] merely, but of all worship, is found in the distinction between the Creator and His creatures. This great fact can never become obsolete, and must never be forgotten."—J. N. Andrews, History of the Sabbath, chapter 27. It was to keep this truth ever before the minds of men, that God instituted the Sabbath in Eden; and so long as the fact that He is our Creator continues to be a reason why we should worship Him, so long the Sabbath will continue as its sign and memorial. Had the Sabbath been universally kept, man's thoughts and affections would have been led to the Creator as the object of reverence and worship, and there would never have been an idolater, an atheist, or an infidel. The keeping of the Sabbath is a sign of loyalty to the true God, "Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." It follows that the message which commands men to worship God and keep His commandments will especially call upon them to keep the fourth commandment. {GC 437.2}
In contrast to those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus, the third angel points to another class, against whose errors a solemn and fearful warning is uttered: "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." Revelation 14:9, 10. A correct interpretation of the symbols employed is necessary to an understanding of this message. What is represented by the beast, the image, the mark? {GC 438.1}
The line of prophecy in which these symbols are found begins with Revelation 12, with the dragon that sought to destroy Christ at His birth. The dragon is said to be Satan (Revelation 12:9); he it was that moved upon Herod to put the Saviour to death. But the chief agent of Satan in making war upon Christ and His people during the first centuries of the Christian Era was the Roman Empire, in which paganism was the prevailing religion. Thus while the dragon, primarily, represents Satan, it is, in a secondary sense, a symbol of pagan Rome. [439] {GC 438.2}
In chapter 13 (verses 1-10) is described another beast, "like unto a leopard," to which the dragon gave "his power, and his seat, and great authority." This symbol, as most Protestants have believed, represents the papacy, which succeeded to the power and seat and authority once held by the ancient Roman empire. Of the leopardlike beast it is declared: "There was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies. . . . And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." This prophecy, which is nearly identical with the description of the little horn of Daniel 7, unquestionably points to the papacy. {GC 439.1}
"Power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." And, says the prophet, "I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death." And again: "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword." The forty and two months are the same as the "time and times and the dividing of time," three years and a half, or 1260 days, of Daniel 7 - - the time during which the papal power was to oppress God's people. This period, as stated in preceding chapters, began with the supremacy of the papacy, A.D. 538, and terminated in 1798. At that time the pope was made captive by the French army, the papal power received its deadly wound, and the prediction was fulfilled, "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity." {GC 439.2}
At this point another symbol is introduced. Says the prophet: "I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb." Verse 11. Both the appearance of this beast and the manner of its rise indicate that the nation which it represents is unlike those presented under the preceding symbols. The great kingdoms that have ruled the world were presented to the prophet Daniel as [440] beasts of prey, rising when "the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea." Daniel 7:2. In Revelation 17 an angel explained that waters represent "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." Revelation 17:15. Winds are a symbol of strife. The four winds of heaven striving upon the great sea represent the terrible scenes of conquest and revolution by which kingdoms have attained to power. {GC 439.3}
But the beast with lamblike horns was seen "coming up out of the earth." Instead of overthrowing other powers to establish itself, the nation thus represented must arise in territory previously unoccupied and grow up gradually and peacefully. It could not, then, arise among the crowded and struggling nationalities of the Old World—that turbulent sea of "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." It must be sought in the Western Continent. {GC 440.1}
What nation of the New World was in 1798 rising into power, giving promise of strength and greatness, and attracting the attention of the world? The application of the symbol admits of no question. One nation, and only one, meets the specifications of this prophecy; it points unmistakably to the United States of America. Again and again the thought, almost the exact words, of the sacred writer has been unconsciously employed by the orator and the historian in describing the rise and growth of this nation. The beast was seen "coming up out of the earth;" and, according to the translators, the word here rendered "coming up" literally signifies "to grow or spring up as a plant." And, as we have seen, the nation must arise in territory previously unoccupied. A prominent writer, describing the rise of the United States, speaks of "the mystery of her coming forth from vacancy," and says: "Like a silent seed we grew into empire."—G. A. Townsend, The New World Compared With the Old, page 462. A European journal in 1850 spoke of the United States as a wonderful empire, which was "emerging," and "amid the silence of the earth daily adding to its power and pride." —The Dublin Nation. Edward Everett, in an oration on [441] the Pilgrim founders of this nation, said: "Did they look for a retired spot, inoffensive for its obscurity, and safe in its remoteness, where the little church of Leyden might enjoy the freedom of conscience? Behold the mighty regions over which, in peaceful conquest, . . . they have borne the banners of the cross!"—Speech delivered at Plymouth, Massachusetts, Dec. 22, 1824, page 11. {GC 440.2}
"And he had two horns like a lamb." The lamblike horns indicate youth, innocence, and gentleness, fitly representing the character of the United States when presented to the prophet as "coming up" in 1798. Among the Christian exiles who first fled to America and sought an asylum from royal oppression and priestly intolerance were many who determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. Their views found place in the Declaration of Independence, which sets forth the great truth that "all men are created equal" and endowed with the inalienable right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." And the Constitution guarantees to the people the right of self-government, providing that representatives elected by the popular vote shall enact and administer the laws. Freedom of religious faith was also granted, every man being permitted to worship God according to the dictates of his conscience. Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation. These principles are the secret of its power and prosperity. The oppressed and downtrodden throughout Christendom have turned to this land with interest and hope. Millions have sought its shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth. {GC 441.1}
But the beast with lamblike horns "spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed; . . . saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make [442] an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live." Revelation 13:11-14. {GC 441.2}
The lamblike horns and dragon voice of the symbol point to a striking contradiction between the professions and the practice of the nation thus represented. The "speaking" of the nation is the action of its legislative and judicial authorities. By such action it will give the lie to those liberal and peaceful principles which it has put forth as the foundation of its policy. The prediction that it will speak "as a dragon" and exercise "all the power of the first beast" plainly foretells a development of the spirit of intolerance and persecution that was manifested by the nations represented by the dragon and the leopardlike beast. And the statement that the beast with two horns "causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast" indicates that the authority of this nation is to be exercised in enforcing some observance which shall be an act of homage to the papacy. {GC 442.1}
Such action would be directly contrary to the principles of this government, to the genius of its free institutions, to the direct and solemn avowals of the Declaration of Independence, and to the Constitution. The founders of the nation wisely sought to guard against the employment of secular power on the part of the church, with its inevitable result—intolerance and persecution. The Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," and that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." Only in flagrant violation of these safeguards to the nation's liberty, can any religious observance be enforced by civil authority. But the inconsistency of such action is no greater than is represented in the symbol. It is the beast with lamblike horns—in profession pure, gentle, and harmless—that speaks as a dragon. {GC 442.2}
"Saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should [443] make an image to the beast." Here is clearly presented a form of government in which the legislative power rests with the people, a most striking evidence that the United States is the nation denoted in the prophecy. {GC 442.3}
But what is the "image to the beast"? and how is it to be formed? The image is made by the two-horned beast, and is an image to the beast. It is also called an image of the beast. Then to learn what the image is like and how it is to be formed we must study the characteristics of the beast itself—the papacy. {GC 443.1}
When the early church became corrupted by departing from the simplicity of the gospel and accepting heathen rites and customs, she lost the Spirit and power of God; and in order to control the consciences of the people, she sought the support of the secular power. The result was the papacy, a church that controlled the power of the state and employed it to further her own ends, especially for the punishment of "heresy." In order for the United States to form an image of the beast, the religious power must so control the civil government that the authority of the state will also be employed by the church to accomplish her own ends. {GC 443.2}
Whenever the church has obtained secular power, she has employed it to punish dissent from her doctrines. Protestant churches that have followed in the steps of Rome by forming alliance with worldly powers have manifested a similar desire to restrict liberty of conscience. An example of this is given in the long-continued persecution of dissenters by the Church of England. During the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, thousands of nonconformist ministers were forced to flee from their churches, and many, both of pastors and people, were subjected to fine, imprisonment, torture, and martyrdom. {GC 443.3}
It was apostasy that led the early church to seek the aid of the civil government, and this prepared the way for the development of the papacy—the beast. Said Paul: "There" shall "come a falling away, . . . and that man of sin be [444] revealed." 2 Thessalonians 2:3. So apostasy in the church will prepare the way for the image to the beast. {GC 443.4}
The Bible declares that before the coming of the Lord there will exist a state of religious declension similar to that in the first centuries. "In the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." 2 Timothy 3:1-5. "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." 1 Timothy 4:1. Satan will work "with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness." And all that "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved," will be left to accept "strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11. When this state of ungodliness shall be reached, the same results will follow as in the first centuries. {GC 444.1}
The wide diversity of belief in the Protestant churches is regarded by many as decisive proof that no effort to secure a forced uniformity can ever be made. But there has been for years, in churches of the Protestant faith, a strong and growing sentiment in favor of a union based upon common points of doctrine. To secure such a union, the discussion of subjects upon which all were not agreed—however important they might be from a Bible standpoint—must necessarily be waived. {GC 444.2}
Charles Beecher, in a sermon in the year 1846, declared that the ministry of "the evangelical Protestant denominations" is "not only formed all the way up under a tremendous pressure of merely human fear, but they live, and move, and breathe in a state of things radically corrupt, and appealing every hour to every baser element of their nature to hush up [445] the truth, and bow the knee to the power of apostasy. Was not this the way things went with Rome? Are we not living her life over again? And what do we see just ahead? Another general council! A world's convention! Evangelical alliance, and universal creed!"—Sermon on "The Bible a Sufficient Creed," delivered at Fort Wayne, Indiana, Feb. 22, 1846. When this shall be gained, then, in the effort to secure complete uniformity, it will be only a step to the resort to force. {GC 444.3}
When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result. {GC 445.1}
The beast with two horns "causeth [commands] all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Revelation 13:16, 17. The third angel's warning is: "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." "The beast" mentioned in this message, whose worship is enforced by the two-horned beast, is the first, or leopardlike beast of Revelation 13 — the papacy. The "image to the beast" represents that form of apostate Protestantism which will be developed when the Protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas. The "mark of the beast" still remains to be defined. {GC 445.2}
After the warning against the worship of the beast and his image the prophecy declares: "Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Since those who keep God's commandments are thus placed in contrast with those that worship the beast and his image and receive his mark, it follows that the keeping of God's law, on the [446] one hand, and its violation, on the other, will make the distinction between the worshipers of God and the worshipers of the beast. {GC 445.3}
The special characteristic of the beast, and therefore of his image, is the breaking of God's commandments. Says Daniel, of the little horn, the papacy: "He shall think to change times and the law." Daniel 7:25, R.V. And Paul styled the same power the "man of sin," who was to exalt himself above God. One prophecy is a complement of the other. Only by changing God's law could the papacy exalt itself above God; whoever should understandingly keep the law as thus changed would be giving supreme honor to that power by which the change was made. Such an act of obedience to papal laws would be a mark of allegiance to the pope in the place of God. {GC 446.1}
The papacy has attempted to change the law of God. The second commandment, forbidding image worship, has been dropped from the law, and the fourth commandment has been so changed as to authorize the observance of the first instead of the seventh day as the Sabbath. But papists urge, as a reason for omitting the second commandment, that it is unnecessary, being included in the first, and that they are giving the law exactly as God designed it to be understood. This cannot be the change foretold by the prophet. An intentional, deliberate change is presented: "He shall think to change the times and the law." The change in the fourth commandment exactly fulfills the prophecy. For this the only authority claimed is that of the church. Here the papal power openly sets itself above God. {GC 446.2}
While the worshipers of God will be especially distinguished by their regard for the fourth commandment,—since this is the sign of His creative power and the witness to His claim upon man's reverence and homage,—the worshipers of the beast will be distinguished by their efforts to tear down the Creator's memorial, to exalt the institution of Rome. It was in behalf of the Sunday that popery first asserted its [447] arrogant claims (see Appendix); and its first resort to the power of the state was to compel the observance of Sunday as "the Lord's day." But the Bible points to the seventh day, and not to the first, as the Lord's day. Said Christ: "The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." The fourth commandment declares: "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord." And by the prophet Isaiah the Lord designates it: "My holy day." Mark 2:28; Isaiah 58:13. {GC 446.3}
The claim so often put forth that Christ changed the Sabbath is disproved by His own words. In His Sermon on the Mount He said: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven," Matthew 5:17-19. {GC 447.1}
It is a fact generally admitted by Protestants that the Scriptures give no authority for the change of the Sabbath. This is plainly stated in publications issued by the American Tract Society and the American Sunday School Union. One of these works acknowledges "the complete silence of the New Testament so far as any explicit command for the Sabbath [Sunday, the first day of the week] or definite rules for its observance are concerned."—George Elliott, The Abiding Sabbath, page 184. {GC 447.2}
Another says: "Up to the time of Christ's death, no change had been made in the day;" and, "so far as the record shows, they [the apostles] did not . . . give any explicit command enjoining the abandonment of the seventh-day Sabbath, and its observance on the first day of the week."—A. E. Waffle, The Lord's Day, pages 186-188. {GC 447.3}
Roman Catholics acknowledge that the change of the Sabbath was made by their church, and declare that Protestants [448] by observing the Sunday are recognizing her power. In the Catholic Catechism of Christian Religion, in answer to a question as to the day to be observed in obedience to the fourth commandment, this statement is made: "During the old law, Saturday was the day sanctified; but the church, instructed by Jesus Christ, and directed by the Spirit of God, has substituted Sunday for Saturday; so now we sanctify the first, not the seventh day. Sunday means, and now is, the day of the Lord." {GC 447.4}
As the sign of the authority of the Catholic Church, papist writers cite "the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; . . . because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church's power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin."—Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine, page 58. What then is the change of the Sabbath, but the sign, or mark, of the authority of the Roman Church—"the mark of the beast"? {GC 448.1}
The Roman Church has not relinquished her claim to supremacy; and when the world and the Protestant churches accept a sabbath of her creating, while they reject the Bible Sabbath, they virtually admit this assumption. They may claim the authority of tradition and of the Fathers for the change; but in so doing they ignore the very principle which separates them from Rome—that "the Bible, and the Bible only, is the religion of Protestants." The papist can see that they are deceiving themselves, willingly closing their eyes to the facts in the case. As the movement for Sunday enforcement gains favor, he rejoices, feeling assured that it will eventually bring the whole Protestant world under the banner of Rome. {GC 448.2}
Romanists declare that "the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church."—Mgr. Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, page 213. The enforcement of Sundaykeeping on the part of Protestant churches is an enforcement of the worship of the papacy—of the beast. Those who, understanding the claims of the fourth [449] commandment, choose to observe the false instead of the true Sabbath are thereby paying homage to that power by which alone it is commanded. But in the very act of enforcing a religious duty by secular power, the churches would themselves form an image to the beast; hence the enforcement of Sundaykeeping in the United States would be an enforcement of the worship of the beast and his image. {GC 448.3}
But Christians of past generations observed the Sunday, supposing that in so doing they were keeping the Bible Sabbath; and there are now true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion, who honestly believe that Sunday is the Sabbath of divine appointment. God accepts their sincerity of purpose and their integrity before Him. But when Sunday observance shall be enforced by law, and the world shall be enlightened concerning the obligation of the true Sabbath, then whoever shall transgress the command of God, to obey a precept which has no higher authority than that of Rome, will thereby honor popery above God. He is paying homage to Rome and to the power which enforces the institution ordained by Rome. He is worshiping the beast and his image. As men then reject the institution which God has declared to be the sign of His authority, and honor in its stead that which Rome has chosen as the token of her supremacy, they will thereby accept the sign of allegiance to Rome—"the mark of the beast." And it is not until the issue is thus plainly set before the people, and they are brought to choose between the commandments of God and the commandments of men, that those who continue in transgression will receive "the mark of the beast." {GC 449.1}
The most fearful threatening ever addressed to mortals is contained in the third angel's message. That must be a terrible sin which calls down the wrath of God unmingled with mercy. Men are not to be left in darkness concerning this important matter; the warning against this sin is to be given to the world before the visitation of God's judgments, that all may know why they are to be inflicted, and have [450] opportunity to escape them. Prophecy declares that the first angel would make his announcement to "every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people." The warning of the third angel, which forms a part of the same threefold message, is to be no less widespread. It is represented in the prophecy as being proclaimed with a loud voice, by an angel flying in the midst of heaven; and it will command the attention of the world. {GC 449.2}
In the issue of the contest all Christendom will be divided into two great classes—those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark. Although church and state will unite their power to compel "all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond" (Revelation 13:16), to receive "the mark of the beast," yet the people of God will not receive it. The prophet of Patmos beholds "them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God" and singing the song of Moses and the Lamb. Revelation 15:2, 3. {GC 450.1}
Consider the Integration of:
1. The Teachings of Jesus.
2. The U.S. Constitution.
3. The Latin Mass.
4. The Classical Sacred Music.
5. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System.
I'm not necessarily saying this is the way things should be, or that this is my final answer. I'm simply saying that this possibility should be exhaustively thought-through by the best and the brightest beings in the solar system.
Here is a positive look at the Vatican by National Geographic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svaxr4erV_Q Here is a Latin Mass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE&feature=related Here is another. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1872714663680800365#
""Holy Father," John Paul was asked toward the end of a private audience for visiting dignitaries in 1983, "can we expect Your Holiness to undertake many more of these papal visits to different parts of the world?" John Paul replied with candor, "Until as many men and women and children as I can reach have seen the face and heard the voice of Christ's Vicar; for I am their Pope, and this is what the Blessed Mother wishes her Son's Vicar to do."" -- taken from page 122 of 'Keys of This Blood' by Malachi Martin. What would Anna say? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAHxyD3KLc&feature=related Do you notice anything odd at 00:20 - 00:30 in this 'Angels and Demons' trailer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcE8QaKiTGk&feature=related Perhaps we wrestle against flesh and blood AND that which is not flesh and blood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYV7WeaDP_8
"What captures the unwavering attention of the secular leaders of the world in this remarkable network of the Roman Catholic Church is precisely the fact that it places at the personal disposal of the Pope a supranational, supracontinental, supra-trade-bloc structure that is so built and oriented that if tomorrow or next week, by a sudden miracle, a one-world government were established, the Church would not have to undergo any essential structural change in order to retain its dominant position and to further its global aims." - taken from 'The Keys of This Blood' pages 142-143.
I love the universal, artistic, private, and meditative aspects of the Latin Mass - but I have problems with the human sacrifice aspects. I really am a walking contradiction. Mea Culpa. I am looking for a non-corrupt common-denomenator, which can possibly unite the world politically and spiritually - without coercion or persecution of any kind. I think I might be the best friend and worst enemy of just about everyone. Incidentally - I really do listen to Latin Masses on a daily basis - even though I am not a Roman Catholic. I am a Protestant Catholic New Age Agnostic - and proud of it! I find the following quotation to be both fascinating and chilling:
"When you talk of the Eucharist, you are talking about the Roman Mass, which has been and still is the central act of worship for Roman Catholics. The value of the Mass for Catholics is twofold. A Mass, in Catholic belief, presents the real live Sacrifice of the body and the blood and physical life of Jesus consummated on Calvary. It is not a commemoration of that sacrifice, nor a reenactment after the fashion of a historical drama, nor a symbolic performance. Therein lies the mystery of the Mass. When a Roman Mass is said to be valid, it is believed to achieve that mysterious presentation of Christ's sacrifice of his bodily life. It has validity; and Roman Catholics can then literally adore their Savior under the physical appearance of bread and wine." - taken from 'The Keys of This Blood' page 667.
When I speak of considering the possibility of a Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - I am speaking of a solar system without the rotten-core which has been screwing things up for thousands of years. Does anyone have any idea what I'm speaking of? Why will no one really talk to me about any of this? I feel as though I am reinventing the wheel - day after day after day. What if St. Peter's Basillica were the meeting place of the United States of the Solar System? Or what about the deconsecrated and magnificent St. Ouen in France? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueU4CDjn3v0 What about the previously mentioned modernist St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KIZ9BEM8L0&feature=related This is sort of like combining the three contenders for control of the New World Order - which Malachi Martin wrote about in 'The Keys of This Blood' - under one roof - and without the previously mentioned rogue element. Should St. Peter's be outfitted with permanent Vatican II style seating - and should daily sessions occur which would be very similar to the Senate and Congressional Sessions in Washington D.C. - only with much more glory, grandeur, reverence, awe, pomp, and circumstance? As Robert H. Schuller used to say 'The Secular Must Become Sacred - and the Sacred Must Become Secular'. I agree. The Roman Catholic Church is, in essence, a World Government - and perhaps even a Solar System Government. It's not just an antiquated and irrelevant church of superstitious non-sense. If the Roman Catholic Church is in trouble - the whole damn world is in trouble. Once again - try reading 'The Keys of This Blood' with a Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System clearly in mind. Even if this concept is impossible - I still think this possibility should be analyzed to death. The issues which would inevitably emerge, need to be thought through very, very carefully. I'm a bull in a china closet, regarding solar system governance - but I think I'm on the right track. There are highly intelligent, highly educated, and highly refined people - who would need to cut and polish this 'diamond in the rough'. I know my limitations.
What if the Audience Hall at the Vatican were the center of the religious aspect of a United States of the Solar System - wherein the governmental modus operandi were the U.S. Constitution - but the ongoing central topic were the Contemporary Application of the Teachings of Jesus to the Entire Solar System?
What if the Crystal Cathedral in California were the center of the political aspect of a United States of the Solar System - wherein the governmental modus operandi were the U.S. Constitution - and the ongoing central topic were the Contemporary Application of the U.S. Constitution to the Entire Solar System?
Who REALLY Runs the Monarchy, the Vatican, the City of London, Washington DC, the United Nations, and the Secret Government????? Don't All of You Just LOVE Me????!!!!!
Namaste to the People of the World. I Know in Whom I Have Believed. On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand. All Other Ground is Sinking Sand. Namaste to the Beings of the Universe.
An orderly society requires authority, law, and order - even if a lot of free-spirit new agers don't think so. But the standard seems to be very unstable and blurred to me. I am trying to determine absolute ethics relative to situation ethics. I once spoke with Joseph Fletcher - who wrote the controversial book 'Situation Ethics'. He privately told me that Christianity was BS. I only partially agreed. I think the standard is within the Teachings of Jesus - but that Christianity is Insubordinate to the Words of Christ. I finally arrived at the word 'RESPONSIBILITY' as being the underlying principle in the Teachings of Jesus. Even though I think this single word is the absolute standard - this is a hugely complex study. There are too few people who really agonize over right and wrong. Am I right, or wrong? You know, what might damn people, in the end, is not whether they were right or wrong, but rather whether they gave a damn, or not. Think about THAT.
When I speak of a Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - I am not just randomly throwing a bunch of unrelated words together - and repeating them over and over and over - to be some sort of a damn smart alec. This represents a minimalist-principled union of church and state which just might work. I actually want a World Order. In fact, I want a Solar System - which guarantees Responsible Freedom - but no one really seems to give a damn...
The following is the chapter 'God's Law Immutable' in the book 'Great Controversy' by Ellen White. I agree with a lot of the Ellen White material - but I honestly do pick and choose. I prefer to stick as close as possible to the material presented in her book 'Desire of Ages' regarding the Life and Teachings of Jesus - but I much prefer to read the actual Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus - and then arrive at my own conclusions. I continue to think that theology is at the center of everything - but that it is a VERY messy subject - with rampant divergent opinions and controversies - especially in modernity. This could lead to a Catastrophic Failure of Humanity on Planet Earth. Consider listening to a Latin Mass while reading the following. Talk about combining opposites! Again, this is another example of why I call myself 'orthodoxymoron' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE&feature=related
"The temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament." Revelation 11:19. The ark of God's testament is in the holy of holies, the second apartment of the sanctuary. In the ministration of the earthly tabernacle, which served "unto the example and shadow of heavenly things," this apartment was opened only upon the great Day of Atonement for the cleansing of the sanctuary. Therefore the announcement that the temple of God was opened in heaven and the ark of His testament was seen points to the opening of the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary in 1844 as Christ entered there to perform the closing work of the atonement. Those who by faith followed their great High Priest as He entered upon His ministry in the most holy place, beheld the ark of His testament. As they had studied the subject of the sanctuary they had come to understand the Saviour's change of ministration, and they saw that He was now officiating before the ark of God, pleading His blood in behalf of sinners. {GC 433.1}
The ark in the tabernacle on earth contained the two tables of stone, upon which were inscribed the precepts of the law of God. The ark was merely a receptacle for the tables of the law, and the presence of these divine precepts gave to it its value and sacredness. When the temple of God was opened in heaven, the ark of His testament was seen. [434] Within the holy of holies, in the sanctuary in heaven, the divine law is sacredly enshrined—the law that was spoken by God Himself amid the thunders of Sinai and written with His own finger on the tables of stone. {GC 433.2}
The law of God in the sanctuary in heaven is the great original, of which the precepts inscribed upon the tables of stone and recorded by Moses in the Pentateuch were an unerring transcript. Those who arrived at an understanding of this important point were thus led to see the sacred, unchanging character of the divine law. They saw, as never before, the force of the Saviour's words: "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law." Matthew 5:18. The law of God, being a revelation of His will, a transcript of His character, must forever endure, "as a faithful witness in heaven." Not one command has been annulled; not a jot or tittle has been changed. Says the psalmist: "Forever, O Lord, Thy word is settled in heaven." "All His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever." Psalm 119:89; 111:7, 8. {GC 434.1}
In the very bosom of the Decalogue is the fourth commandment, as it was first proclaimed: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:8-11. {GC 434.2}
The Spirit of God impressed the hearts of those students of His word. The conviction was urged upon them that they had ignorantly transgressed this precept by disregarding the Creator's rest day. They began to examine the reasons for observing the first day of the week instead of the day which God had sanctified. They could find no evidence in the [435] Scriptures that the fourth commandment had been abolished, or that the Sabbath had been changed; the blessing which first hallowed the seventh day had never been removed. They had been honestly seeking to know and to do God's will; now, as they saw themselves transgressors of His law, sorrow filled their hearts, and they manifested their loyalty to God by keeping His Sabbath holy. {GC 434.3}
Many and earnest were the efforts made to overthrow their faith. None could fail to see that if the earthly sanctuary was a figure or pattern of the heavenly, the law deposited in the ark on earth was an exact transcript of the law in the ark in heaven; and that an acceptance of the truth concerning the heavenly sanctuary involved an acknowledgment of the claims of God's law and the obligation of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. Here was the secret of the bitter and determined opposition to the harmonious exposition of the Scriptures that revealed the ministration of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Men sought to close the door which God had opened, and to open the door which He had closed. But "He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth," had declared: "Behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it." Revelation 3:7, 8. Christ had opened the door, or ministration, of the most holy place, light was shining from that open door of the sanctuary in heaven, and the fourth commandment was shown to be included in the law which is there enshrined; what God had established, no man could overthrow. {GC 435.1}
Those who had accepted the light concerning the mediation of Christ and the perpetuity of the law of God found that these were the truths presented in Revelation 14. The messages of this chapter constitute a threefold warning (see Appendix) which is to prepare the inhabitants of the earth for the Lord's second coming. The announcement, "The hour of His judgment is come," points to the closing work of Christ's ministration for the salvation of men. It heralds a [436] truth which must be proclaimed until the Saviour's intercession shall cease and He shall return to the earth to take His people to Himself. The work of judgment which began in 1844 must continue until the cases of all are decided, both of the living and the dead; hence it will extend to the close of human probation. That men may be prepared to stand in the judgment, the message commands them to "fear God, and give glory to Him," "and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." The result of an acceptance of these messages is given in the word: "Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." In order to be prepared for the judgment, it is necessary that men should keep the law of God. That law will be the standard of character in the judgment. The apostle Paul declares: "As many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law, . . . in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ." And he says that "the doers of the law shall be justified." Romans 2:12-16. Faith is essential in order to the keeping of the law of God; for "without faith it is impossible to please Him." And "whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Hebrews 11:6; Romans 14:23. {GC 435.2}
By the first angel, men are called upon to "fear God, and give glory to Him" and to worship Him as the Creator of the heavens and the earth. In order to do this, they must obey His law. Says the wise man: "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." Ecclesiastes 12:13. Without obedience to His commandments no worship can be pleasing to God. "This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments." "He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination." 1 John 5:3; Proverbs 28:9. {GC 436.1}
The duty to worship God is based upon the fact that He is the Creator and that to Him all other beings owe their existence. And wherever, in the Bible, His claim to reverence and worship, above the gods of the heathen, is presented, [437] there is cited the evidence of His creative power. "All the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens." Psalm 96:5. "To whom then will ye liken Me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things." "Thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God Himself that formed the earth and made it: . . . I am the Lord; and there is none else." Isaiah 40:25, 26; 45:18. Says the psalmist: "Know ye that the Lord He is God: it is He that hath made us, and not we ourselves." "O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our Maker." Psalm 100:3; 95:6. And the holy beings who worship God in heaven state, as the reason why their homage is due to Him: "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for Thou hast created all things." Revelation 4:11. {GC 436.2}
In Revelation 14, men are called upon to worship the Creator; and the prophecy brings to view a class that, as the result of the threefold message, are keeping the commandments of God. One of these commandments points directly to God as the Creator. The fourth precept declares: "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: . . . for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:10, 11. Concerning the Sabbath, the Lord says, further, that it is "a sign, . . . that ye may know that I am the Lord your God." Ezekiel 20:20. And the reason given is: "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed." Exodus 31:17. {GC 437.1}
"The importance of the Sabbath as the memorial of creation is that it keeps ever present the true reason why worship is due to God"—because He is the Creator, and we are His creatures. "The Sabbath therefore lies at the very foundation of divine worship, for it teaches this great truth in the most impressive manner, and no other institution does this. The true ground of divine worship, not of that on the seventh day [438] merely, but of all worship, is found in the distinction between the Creator and His creatures. This great fact can never become obsolete, and must never be forgotten."—J. N. Andrews, History of the Sabbath, chapter 27. It was to keep this truth ever before the minds of men, that God instituted the Sabbath in Eden; and so long as the fact that He is our Creator continues to be a reason why we should worship Him, so long the Sabbath will continue as its sign and memorial. Had the Sabbath been universally kept, man's thoughts and affections would have been led to the Creator as the object of reverence and worship, and there would never have been an idolater, an atheist, or an infidel. The keeping of the Sabbath is a sign of loyalty to the true God, "Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." It follows that the message which commands men to worship God and keep His commandments will especially call upon them to keep the fourth commandment. {GC 437.2}
In contrast to those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus, the third angel points to another class, against whose errors a solemn and fearful warning is uttered: "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." Revelation 14:9, 10. A correct interpretation of the symbols employed is necessary to an understanding of this message. What is represented by the beast, the image, the mark? {GC 438.1}
The line of prophecy in which these symbols are found begins with Revelation 12, with the dragon that sought to destroy Christ at His birth. The dragon is said to be Satan (Revelation 12:9); he it was that moved upon Herod to put the Saviour to death. But the chief agent of Satan in making war upon Christ and His people during the first centuries of the Christian Era was the Roman Empire, in which paganism was the prevailing religion. Thus while the dragon, primarily, represents Satan, it is, in a secondary sense, a symbol of pagan Rome. [439] {GC 438.2}
In chapter 13 (verses 1-10) is described another beast, "like unto a leopard," to which the dragon gave "his power, and his seat, and great authority." This symbol, as most Protestants have believed, represents the papacy, which succeeded to the power and seat and authority once held by the ancient Roman empire. Of the leopardlike beast it is declared: "There was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies. . . . And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." This prophecy, which is nearly identical with the description of the little horn of Daniel 7, unquestionably points to the papacy. {GC 439.1}
"Power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." And, says the prophet, "I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death." And again: "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword." The forty and two months are the same as the "time and times and the dividing of time," three years and a half, or 1260 days, of Daniel 7 - - the time during which the papal power was to oppress God's people. This period, as stated in preceding chapters, began with the supremacy of the papacy, A.D. 538, and terminated in 1798. At that time the pope was made captive by the French army, the papal power received its deadly wound, and the prediction was fulfilled, "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity." {GC 439.2}
At this point another symbol is introduced. Says the prophet: "I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb." Verse 11. Both the appearance of this beast and the manner of its rise indicate that the nation which it represents is unlike those presented under the preceding symbols. The great kingdoms that have ruled the world were presented to the prophet Daniel as [440] beasts of prey, rising when "the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea." Daniel 7:2. In Revelation 17 an angel explained that waters represent "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." Revelation 17:15. Winds are a symbol of strife. The four winds of heaven striving upon the great sea represent the terrible scenes of conquest and revolution by which kingdoms have attained to power. {GC 439.3}
But the beast with lamblike horns was seen "coming up out of the earth." Instead of overthrowing other powers to establish itself, the nation thus represented must arise in territory previously unoccupied and grow up gradually and peacefully. It could not, then, arise among the crowded and struggling nationalities of the Old World—that turbulent sea of "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." It must be sought in the Western Continent. {GC 440.1}
What nation of the New World was in 1798 rising into power, giving promise of strength and greatness, and attracting the attention of the world? The application of the symbol admits of no question. One nation, and only one, meets the specifications of this prophecy; it points unmistakably to the United States of America. Again and again the thought, almost the exact words, of the sacred writer has been unconsciously employed by the orator and the historian in describing the rise and growth of this nation. The beast was seen "coming up out of the earth;" and, according to the translators, the word here rendered "coming up" literally signifies "to grow or spring up as a plant." And, as we have seen, the nation must arise in territory previously unoccupied. A prominent writer, describing the rise of the United States, speaks of "the mystery of her coming forth from vacancy," and says: "Like a silent seed we grew into empire."—G. A. Townsend, The New World Compared With the Old, page 462. A European journal in 1850 spoke of the United States as a wonderful empire, which was "emerging," and "amid the silence of the earth daily adding to its power and pride." —The Dublin Nation. Edward Everett, in an oration on [441] the Pilgrim founders of this nation, said: "Did they look for a retired spot, inoffensive for its obscurity, and safe in its remoteness, where the little church of Leyden might enjoy the freedom of conscience? Behold the mighty regions over which, in peaceful conquest, . . . they have borne the banners of the cross!"—Speech delivered at Plymouth, Massachusetts, Dec. 22, 1824, page 11. {GC 440.2}
"And he had two horns like a lamb." The lamblike horns indicate youth, innocence, and gentleness, fitly representing the character of the United States when presented to the prophet as "coming up" in 1798. Among the Christian exiles who first fled to America and sought an asylum from royal oppression and priestly intolerance were many who determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. Their views found place in the Declaration of Independence, which sets forth the great truth that "all men are created equal" and endowed with the inalienable right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." And the Constitution guarantees to the people the right of self-government, providing that representatives elected by the popular vote shall enact and administer the laws. Freedom of religious faith was also granted, every man being permitted to worship God according to the dictates of his conscience. Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation. These principles are the secret of its power and prosperity. The oppressed and downtrodden throughout Christendom have turned to this land with interest and hope. Millions have sought its shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth. {GC 441.1}
But the beast with lamblike horns "spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed; . . . saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make [442] an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live." Revelation 13:11-14. {GC 441.2}
The lamblike horns and dragon voice of the symbol point to a striking contradiction between the professions and the practice of the nation thus represented. The "speaking" of the nation is the action of its legislative and judicial authorities. By such action it will give the lie to those liberal and peaceful principles which it has put forth as the foundation of its policy. The prediction that it will speak "as a dragon" and exercise "all the power of the first beast" plainly foretells a development of the spirit of intolerance and persecution that was manifested by the nations represented by the dragon and the leopardlike beast. And the statement that the beast with two horns "causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast" indicates that the authority of this nation is to be exercised in enforcing some observance which shall be an act of homage to the papacy. {GC 442.1}
Such action would be directly contrary to the principles of this government, to the genius of its free institutions, to the direct and solemn avowals of the Declaration of Independence, and to the Constitution. The founders of the nation wisely sought to guard against the employment of secular power on the part of the church, with its inevitable result—intolerance and persecution. The Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," and that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." Only in flagrant violation of these safeguards to the nation's liberty, can any religious observance be enforced by civil authority. But the inconsistency of such action is no greater than is represented in the symbol. It is the beast with lamblike horns—in profession pure, gentle, and harmless—that speaks as a dragon. {GC 442.2}
"Saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should [443] make an image to the beast." Here is clearly presented a form of government in which the legislative power rests with the people, a most striking evidence that the United States is the nation denoted in the prophecy. {GC 442.3}
But what is the "image to the beast"? and how is it to be formed? The image is made by the two-horned beast, and is an image to the beast. It is also called an image of the beast. Then to learn what the image is like and how it is to be formed we must study the characteristics of the beast itself—the papacy. {GC 443.1}
When the early church became corrupted by departing from the simplicity of the gospel and accepting heathen rites and customs, she lost the Spirit and power of God; and in order to control the consciences of the people, she sought the support of the secular power. The result was the papacy, a church that controlled the power of the state and employed it to further her own ends, especially for the punishment of "heresy." In order for the United States to form an image of the beast, the religious power must so control the civil government that the authority of the state will also be employed by the church to accomplish her own ends. {GC 443.2}
Whenever the church has obtained secular power, she has employed it to punish dissent from her doctrines. Protestant churches that have followed in the steps of Rome by forming alliance with worldly powers have manifested a similar desire to restrict liberty of conscience. An example of this is given in the long-continued persecution of dissenters by the Church of England. During the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, thousands of nonconformist ministers were forced to flee from their churches, and many, both of pastors and people, were subjected to fine, imprisonment, torture, and martyrdom. {GC 443.3}
It was apostasy that led the early church to seek the aid of the civil government, and this prepared the way for the development of the papacy—the beast. Said Paul: "There" shall "come a falling away, . . . and that man of sin be [444] revealed." 2 Thessalonians 2:3. So apostasy in the church will prepare the way for the image to the beast. {GC 443.4}
The Bible declares that before the coming of the Lord there will exist a state of religious declension similar to that in the first centuries. "In the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." 2 Timothy 3:1-5. "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." 1 Timothy 4:1. Satan will work "with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness." And all that "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved," will be left to accept "strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11. When this state of ungodliness shall be reached, the same results will follow as in the first centuries. {GC 444.1}
The wide diversity of belief in the Protestant churches is regarded by many as decisive proof that no effort to secure a forced uniformity can ever be made. But there has been for years, in churches of the Protestant faith, a strong and growing sentiment in favor of a union based upon common points of doctrine. To secure such a union, the discussion of subjects upon which all were not agreed—however important they might be from a Bible standpoint—must necessarily be waived. {GC 444.2}
Charles Beecher, in a sermon in the year 1846, declared that the ministry of "the evangelical Protestant denominations" is "not only formed all the way up under a tremendous pressure of merely human fear, but they live, and move, and breathe in a state of things radically corrupt, and appealing every hour to every baser element of their nature to hush up [445] the truth, and bow the knee to the power of apostasy. Was not this the way things went with Rome? Are we not living her life over again? And what do we see just ahead? Another general council! A world's convention! Evangelical alliance, and universal creed!"—Sermon on "The Bible a Sufficient Creed," delivered at Fort Wayne, Indiana, Feb. 22, 1846. When this shall be gained, then, in the effort to secure complete uniformity, it will be only a step to the resort to force. {GC 444.3}
When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result. {GC 445.1}
The beast with two horns "causeth [commands] all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Revelation 13:16, 17. The third angel's warning is: "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." "The beast" mentioned in this message, whose worship is enforced by the two-horned beast, is the first, or leopardlike beast of Revelation 13 — the papacy. The "image to the beast" represents that form of apostate Protestantism which will be developed when the Protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas. The "mark of the beast" still remains to be defined. {GC 445.2}
After the warning against the worship of the beast and his image the prophecy declares: "Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Since those who keep God's commandments are thus placed in contrast with those that worship the beast and his image and receive his mark, it follows that the keeping of God's law, on the [446] one hand, and its violation, on the other, will make the distinction between the worshipers of God and the worshipers of the beast. {GC 445.3}
The special characteristic of the beast, and therefore of his image, is the breaking of God's commandments. Says Daniel, of the little horn, the papacy: "He shall think to change times and the law." Daniel 7:25, R.V. And Paul styled the same power the "man of sin," who was to exalt himself above God. One prophecy is a complement of the other. Only by changing God's law could the papacy exalt itself above God; whoever should understandingly keep the law as thus changed would be giving supreme honor to that power by which the change was made. Such an act of obedience to papal laws would be a mark of allegiance to the pope in the place of God. {GC 446.1}
The papacy has attempted to change the law of God. The second commandment, forbidding image worship, has been dropped from the law, and the fourth commandment has been so changed as to authorize the observance of the first instead of the seventh day as the Sabbath. But papists urge, as a reason for omitting the second commandment, that it is unnecessary, being included in the first, and that they are giving the law exactly as God designed it to be understood. This cannot be the change foretold by the prophet. An intentional, deliberate change is presented: "He shall think to change the times and the law." The change in the fourth commandment exactly fulfills the prophecy. For this the only authority claimed is that of the church. Here the papal power openly sets itself above God. {GC 446.2}
While the worshipers of God will be especially distinguished by their regard for the fourth commandment,—since this is the sign of His creative power and the witness to His claim upon man's reverence and homage,—the worshipers of the beast will be distinguished by their efforts to tear down the Creator's memorial, to exalt the institution of Rome. It was in behalf of the Sunday that popery first asserted its [447] arrogant claims (see Appendix); and its first resort to the power of the state was to compel the observance of Sunday as "the Lord's day." But the Bible points to the seventh day, and not to the first, as the Lord's day. Said Christ: "The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." The fourth commandment declares: "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord." And by the prophet Isaiah the Lord designates it: "My holy day." Mark 2:28; Isaiah 58:13. {GC 446.3}
The claim so often put forth that Christ changed the Sabbath is disproved by His own words. In His Sermon on the Mount He said: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven," Matthew 5:17-19. {GC 447.1}
It is a fact generally admitted by Protestants that the Scriptures give no authority for the change of the Sabbath. This is plainly stated in publications issued by the American Tract Society and the American Sunday School Union. One of these works acknowledges "the complete silence of the New Testament so far as any explicit command for the Sabbath [Sunday, the first day of the week] or definite rules for its observance are concerned."—George Elliott, The Abiding Sabbath, page 184. {GC 447.2}
Another says: "Up to the time of Christ's death, no change had been made in the day;" and, "so far as the record shows, they [the apostles] did not . . . give any explicit command enjoining the abandonment of the seventh-day Sabbath, and its observance on the first day of the week."—A. E. Waffle, The Lord's Day, pages 186-188. {GC 447.3}
Roman Catholics acknowledge that the change of the Sabbath was made by their church, and declare that Protestants [448] by observing the Sunday are recognizing her power. In the Catholic Catechism of Christian Religion, in answer to a question as to the day to be observed in obedience to the fourth commandment, this statement is made: "During the old law, Saturday was the day sanctified; but the church, instructed by Jesus Christ, and directed by the Spirit of God, has substituted Sunday for Saturday; so now we sanctify the first, not the seventh day. Sunday means, and now is, the day of the Lord." {GC 447.4}
As the sign of the authority of the Catholic Church, papist writers cite "the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; . . . because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church's power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin."—Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine, page 58. What then is the change of the Sabbath, but the sign, or mark, of the authority of the Roman Church—"the mark of the beast"? {GC 448.1}
The Roman Church has not relinquished her claim to supremacy; and when the world and the Protestant churches accept a sabbath of her creating, while they reject the Bible Sabbath, they virtually admit this assumption. They may claim the authority of tradition and of the Fathers for the change; but in so doing they ignore the very principle which separates them from Rome—that "the Bible, and the Bible only, is the religion of Protestants." The papist can see that they are deceiving themselves, willingly closing their eyes to the facts in the case. As the movement for Sunday enforcement gains favor, he rejoices, feeling assured that it will eventually bring the whole Protestant world under the banner of Rome. {GC 448.2}
Romanists declare that "the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church."—Mgr. Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, page 213. The enforcement of Sundaykeeping on the part of Protestant churches is an enforcement of the worship of the papacy—of the beast. Those who, understanding the claims of the fourth [449] commandment, choose to observe the false instead of the true Sabbath are thereby paying homage to that power by which alone it is commanded. But in the very act of enforcing a religious duty by secular power, the churches would themselves form an image to the beast; hence the enforcement of Sundaykeeping in the United States would be an enforcement of the worship of the beast and his image. {GC 448.3}
But Christians of past generations observed the Sunday, supposing that in so doing they were keeping the Bible Sabbath; and there are now true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion, who honestly believe that Sunday is the Sabbath of divine appointment. God accepts their sincerity of purpose and their integrity before Him. But when Sunday observance shall be enforced by law, and the world shall be enlightened concerning the obligation of the true Sabbath, then whoever shall transgress the command of God, to obey a precept which has no higher authority than that of Rome, will thereby honor popery above God. He is paying homage to Rome and to the power which enforces the institution ordained by Rome. He is worshiping the beast and his image. As men then reject the institution which God has declared to be the sign of His authority, and honor in its stead that which Rome has chosen as the token of her supremacy, they will thereby accept the sign of allegiance to Rome—"the mark of the beast." And it is not until the issue is thus plainly set before the people, and they are brought to choose between the commandments of God and the commandments of men, that those who continue in transgression will receive "the mark of the beast." {GC 449.1}
The most fearful threatening ever addressed to mortals is contained in the third angel's message. That must be a terrible sin which calls down the wrath of God unmingled with mercy. Men are not to be left in darkness concerning this important matter; the warning against this sin is to be given to the world before the visitation of God's judgments, that all may know why they are to be inflicted, and have [450] opportunity to escape them. Prophecy declares that the first angel would make his announcement to "every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people." The warning of the third angel, which forms a part of the same threefold message, is to be no less widespread. It is represented in the prophecy as being proclaimed with a loud voice, by an angel flying in the midst of heaven; and it will command the attention of the world. {GC 449.2}
In the issue of the contest all Christendom will be divided into two great classes—those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark. Although church and state will unite their power to compel "all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond" (Revelation 13:16), to receive "the mark of the beast," yet the people of God will not receive it. The prophet of Patmos beholds "them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God" and singing the song of Moses and the Lamb. Revelation 15:2, 3. {GC 450.1}
Consider the Integration of:
1. The Teachings of Jesus.
2. The U.S. Constitution.
3. The Latin Mass.
4. The Classical Sacred Music.
5. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System.
I'm not necessarily saying this is the way things should be, or that this is my final answer. I'm simply saying that this possibility should be exhaustively thought-through by the best and the brightest beings in the solar system.
Here is a positive look at the Vatican by National Geographic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svaxr4erV_Q Here is a Latin Mass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE&feature=related Here is another. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1872714663680800365#
""Holy Father," John Paul was asked toward the end of a private audience for visiting dignitaries in 1983, "can we expect Your Holiness to undertake many more of these papal visits to different parts of the world?" John Paul replied with candor, "Until as many men and women and children as I can reach have seen the face and heard the voice of Christ's Vicar; for I am their Pope, and this is what the Blessed Mother wishes her Son's Vicar to do."" -- taken from page 122 of 'Keys of This Blood' by Malachi Martin. What would Anna say? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAHxyD3KLc&feature=related Do you notice anything odd at 00:20 - 00:30 in this 'Angels and Demons' trailer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcE8QaKiTGk&feature=related Perhaps we wrestle against flesh and blood AND that which is not flesh and blood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYV7WeaDP_8
"What captures the unwavering attention of the secular leaders of the world in this remarkable network of the Roman Catholic Church is precisely the fact that it places at the personal disposal of the Pope a supranational, supracontinental, supra-trade-bloc structure that is so built and oriented that if tomorrow or next week, by a sudden miracle, a one-world government were established, the Church would not have to undergo any essential structural change in order to retain its dominant position and to further its global aims." - taken from 'The Keys of This Blood' pages 142-143.
I love the universal, artistic, private, and meditative aspects of the Latin Mass - but I have problems with the human sacrifice aspects. I really am a walking contradiction. Mea Culpa. I am looking for a non-corrupt common-denomenator, which can possibly unite the world politically and spiritually - without coercion or persecution of any kind. I think I might be the best friend and worst enemy of just about everyone. Incidentally - I really do listen to Latin Masses on a daily basis - even though I am not a Roman Catholic. I am a Protestant Catholic New Age Agnostic - and proud of it! I find the following quotation to be both fascinating and chilling:
"When you talk of the Eucharist, you are talking about the Roman Mass, which has been and still is the central act of worship for Roman Catholics. The value of the Mass for Catholics is twofold. A Mass, in Catholic belief, presents the real live Sacrifice of the body and the blood and physical life of Jesus consummated on Calvary. It is not a commemoration of that sacrifice, nor a reenactment after the fashion of a historical drama, nor a symbolic performance. Therein lies the mystery of the Mass. When a Roman Mass is said to be valid, it is believed to achieve that mysterious presentation of Christ's sacrifice of his bodily life. It has validity; and Roman Catholics can then literally adore their Savior under the physical appearance of bread and wine." - taken from 'The Keys of This Blood' page 667.
When I speak of considering the possibility of a Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - I am speaking of a solar system without the rotten-core which has been screwing things up for thousands of years. Does anyone have any idea what I'm speaking of? Why will no one really talk to me about any of this? I feel as though I am reinventing the wheel - day after day after day. What if St. Peter's Basillica were the meeting place of the United States of the Solar System? Or what about the deconsecrated and magnificent St. Ouen in France? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueU4CDjn3v0 What about the previously mentioned modernist St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KIZ9BEM8L0&feature=related This is sort of like combining the three contenders for control of the New World Order - which Malachi Martin wrote about in 'The Keys of This Blood' - under one roof - and without the previously mentioned rogue element. Should St. Peter's be outfitted with permanent Vatican II style seating - and should daily sessions occur which would be very similar to the Senate and Congressional Sessions in Washington D.C. - only with much more glory, grandeur, reverence, awe, pomp, and circumstance? As Robert H. Schuller used to say 'The Secular Must Become Sacred - and the Sacred Must Become Secular'. I agree. The Roman Catholic Church is, in essence, a World Government - and perhaps even a Solar System Government. It's not just an antiquated and irrelevant church of superstitious non-sense. If the Roman Catholic Church is in trouble - the whole damn world is in trouble. Once again - try reading 'The Keys of This Blood' with a Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System clearly in mind. Even if this concept is impossible - I still think this possibility should be analyzed to death. The issues which would inevitably emerge, need to be thought through very, very carefully. I'm a bull in a china closet, regarding solar system governance - but I think I'm on the right track. There are highly intelligent, highly educated, and highly refined people - who would need to cut and polish this 'diamond in the rough'. I know my limitations.
What if the Audience Hall at the Vatican were the center of the religious aspect of a United States of the Solar System - wherein the governmental modus operandi were the U.S. Constitution - but the ongoing central topic were the Contemporary Application of the Teachings of Jesus to the Entire Solar System?
What if the Crystal Cathedral in California were the center of the political aspect of a United States of the Solar System - wherein the governmental modus operandi were the U.S. Constitution - and the ongoing central topic were the Contemporary Application of the U.S. Constitution to the Entire Solar System?
Who REALLY Runs the Monarchy, the Vatican, the City of London, Washington DC, the United Nations, and the Secret Government????? Don't All of You Just LOVE Me????!!!!!
Namaste to the People of the World. I Know in Whom I Have Believed. On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand. All Other Ground is Sinking Sand. Namaste to the Beings of the Universe.
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
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I would like to know if there is anyone in the universe who is on the same wavelenth as me. I feel quite alone, at this point. I have felt quite alone throughout my life. I really don't wish to make friends, or ask anyone out, because I'm involved in too much internal conflict. I don't think I'm crazy, but I do think I'm neurotic and isolated. I doubt that this is doing any good - and it involves me in both agony and ecstasy. I think some of this has to be done - but I'm not sure I'm the right person to do it. Everything is a mixture of fantasy and reality. Is there anything which is pure fantasy or pure reality? I really just want to help facilitate a perfected humanity living in a perfected solar system - but I am conflicted regarding the details. This thread is only the beginning of a process which might turn this solar system into a paradise. But would a paradise be appreciated? Is purgatory the ideal? I know that sounds crazy - but how good is too good? I asked a very intelligent individual that question - and it seemed to stump them. How does one help others, without hurting them?
Despite my radical ideas - I don't try to proselytize or evangelize. Every solution seems to involve a new problem - and I'm not sure that waking up the general public is a solution. I continue to think that the Agents, Jesuits, and Other Than Humans - who I think are the majority of those who even passively look at this thread - are the proper audience for my incessant speculation and mental masturbation. I think I might get along with the Queen of Heaven / God of This World - in a rather strange way - even though I have HUGE issues with what I think they have been involved in - throughout the centuries and millenia. I sometimes try to picture what they might REALLY look like and act like, when in the presence of close associates. Some of this is probably worthy of emulation - and some of it is probably unspeakable. I still think they need to retire - voluntarily or otherwise. But would their replacement fall into the same traps and reprehensible behavior? I have tended to think so - which is why I have tried to conceptualize a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - regardless of where it might be based. I tend to think that the Visible and Invisible Vatican is already a New World Order - and was the NWO, long before there was a Vatican - right back to Babylon - and maybe way before that! I think the Ultimate Power Structure in this solar system is very, very old - and very, very powerful. I'm starting to put some of this together - but the insiders must laugh at my innocence and naivety. Sometimes I feel like Pinky - or the Brain - I'm not sure which.
I feel like I'm suposed to be doing something - but I don't know what it is. I feel like I'm onto something - but I don't know if I should even be looking. I really have purposely kept myself in the dark about a lot of things, for a very long time. I've only recently been intensifying my quest - because of all of the internet info-warring and general worldwide trouble. I really don't know what helps - or what hurts - which is why I haven't taken the show on the road. I don't intend to. Not in this lifetime. I would still like to see what files exist on me - throughout the solar system. There has to be at least one or two. I just haven't gotten much feedback from anyone - with perhaps a half-dozen execptions. I really have to maintain an inner debate - which really involves no one - so as to keep me, and everyone else, sane. This thread only scratches the surface of my inner conflict. It's quite the struggle. I only let a little bit of it out at a time! It's easier that way. It's sort of like farting in public. He who farts in church, sits in his own pew...
Despite my radical ideas - I don't try to proselytize or evangelize. Every solution seems to involve a new problem - and I'm not sure that waking up the general public is a solution. I continue to think that the Agents, Jesuits, and Other Than Humans - who I think are the majority of those who even passively look at this thread - are the proper audience for my incessant speculation and mental masturbation. I think I might get along with the Queen of Heaven / God of This World - in a rather strange way - even though I have HUGE issues with what I think they have been involved in - throughout the centuries and millenia. I sometimes try to picture what they might REALLY look like and act like, when in the presence of close associates. Some of this is probably worthy of emulation - and some of it is probably unspeakable. I still think they need to retire - voluntarily or otherwise. But would their replacement fall into the same traps and reprehensible behavior? I have tended to think so - which is why I have tried to conceptualize a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - regardless of where it might be based. I tend to think that the Visible and Invisible Vatican is already a New World Order - and was the NWO, long before there was a Vatican - right back to Babylon - and maybe way before that! I think the Ultimate Power Structure in this solar system is very, very old - and very, very powerful. I'm starting to put some of this together - but the insiders must laugh at my innocence and naivety. Sometimes I feel like Pinky - or the Brain - I'm not sure which.
I feel like I'm suposed to be doing something - but I don't know what it is. I feel like I'm onto something - but I don't know if I should even be looking. I really have purposely kept myself in the dark about a lot of things, for a very long time. I've only recently been intensifying my quest - because of all of the internet info-warring and general worldwide trouble. I really don't know what helps - or what hurts - which is why I haven't taken the show on the road. I don't intend to. Not in this lifetime. I would still like to see what files exist on me - throughout the solar system. There has to be at least one or two. I just haven't gotten much feedback from anyone - with perhaps a half-dozen execptions. I really have to maintain an inner debate - which really involves no one - so as to keep me, and everyone else, sane. This thread only scratches the surface of my inner conflict. It's quite the struggle. I only let a little bit of it out at a time! It's easier that way. It's sort of like farting in public. He who farts in church, sits in his own pew...
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
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WHAT PART OFلقد كانت انطلاقة جيدة ولكن الوقت هو في متناول اليد ويجب أن يأخذ إجازة بلدي. ابحث في روحك لأبواب السماء DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?
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Consider the Visible and Hidden Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church and Ancient Technology/Art/Architecture/ Literature/Music/Religion/ect. - rather than just a bunch of smart and evil Teutonic Zionists, Bavarian Illuminati, Nazis and Neo-Nazis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFvlP-tCabo&NR=1 It seems to me that an ancient civilization got conquered/hijacked/enslaved - and that we continue to suffer because of this. Gizeh Intelligence might be at the center of all of this. The Nazis might just be another front organization. Perhaps there are dozens of front organizations and nations for this hidden power. I think we're finding out about a lot of things - but I continue to wonder how much we can really change things for the better. I had a lot more hope before Fukushima. That really took the wind out of my sails. I had hoped that the tide had turned - for a variety of reasons - over the past year - but this has all turned out to be yet another chimera. This is my gut feeling - based upon pseudointellectual research and thinking. Take everything I say with a sea of salt. One more thing - I don't seek the end of what I am calling the Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church. I merely seek it's reformation and purification - visibly and invisibly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BEZaPN8gUY&feature=related There are many aspects of it which I adore - and others which I abhor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfL7GvWsHAA&feature=related But I'm not sure that the visible hierarchy has much of a say in the matter. I think it might be cool to be a high-tech monk with a Cray - living in a monastery! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnKbPj7EhCg&feature=related Siriusly! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y7CwfrCaT4&feature=related I tend to think this thing goes a lot deeper than we think - perhaps many miles beneath the earth. Imagine living in a reptilian monastery - 10 miles beneath Vatican City! If I had the chance - I would probably completely restore/rebuild all of the ancient Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman buildings/ruins - and really, all of the ancient buildings/ruins throughout the solar system. Again, I wish to positively reinforce the best of the past - as a foundation for moving confidently and constructively into the future. BTW - that green-monster, below, is a real @$$hole. Anyone gotta chainsaw? Do any of you know why I included that last picture? Think about it - but don't strain yourselves. Meanwhile - Michael and Lucifer are negotiating, south of the border, regarding the fate of humanity. No need to worry. Be of good cheer! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-5C7I4pdgk&feature=fvwrel Translation: "You get Phobos - and I get the Rest of the Solar System!!! Agreed??? @#%*&^%$@#$%^&*()_+!!!!!! If I can't have them - nobody can!!!! @#$%^&()%^%^%!!!! Help! I'm drowning in BS!! I guess that's one reason why I have been focusing on principles and concepts, solar system governance, and big-picture issues - and just generally being a smart@$$ (or is it dumb@$$?). I have a lot of problems with time-travel - especially regarding things like future-humans crashing their UFO in Roswell in 1947. If, by time-travel, we mean accessing historical data-bases of some kind - or extrapolating into the future - I might not have much of a problem with that! Now what were we talking about???"
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Has anyone seen 'Dogma'? Viewer discretion advised - for all of the usual reasons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUaudvlfGw8 WWJD? One of the actors reminds me of someone I know. Actually, two of the actors. Possibly three. Maybe even four. Wait! Now that I think about it - probably five or six. I kid you not. Really. Ignore the language, grossness, and violence. Listen very closely - and read between the lines - especially in light of what I've been saying on this thread - noticing especially the manner of speaking and acting by the actors and actresses. Listen closely to the words in this deleted scene. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704&feature=related Kevin Smith protests 'Dogma'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UDoIBgiUAQ&NR=1 BTW - one of the actresses in 'Legion' reminds me of someone I know quite well. I'd like to know who REALLY inspired 'Dogma' and 'Legion'. Finally - think about a Queen being hidden in a Male Body - with reference to the final scenes, and the last picture, below. This is an important post. You wouldn't believe who told me about 'Dogma'. Two individuals did - months or years ago - but I never watched it - until yesterday. You wouldn't believe who I told about 'Legion'. Nuff Said. Actually - Too Much Said. Over and Out.
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:19 pm; edited 9 times in total
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Does anyone have a clue what I'm talking about? Anyone at all? This thread is not as random and disjointed as it seems. It all ties together. Can anyone jump into the middle of this thread - and discuss the various particulars with me - and remain on-topic? This really isn't hard. I don't have a lot to say in 'real-life' - and I really don't have that much to say on the internet. I think I could get into some REALLY deep conversations - in the right setting - but I mostly have to entertain myself with that sort of thing. I hope this is character-building - or something efficacious - instead of being a complete waste of time. I'm really looking for some sort of rational resolution to the madness - and it just isn't happening. I'd really like to communicate with the individual (from anywhere in the universe - human or otherwise) who is the most knowledgable regarding what I have been talking about - and who would not engage in deception or manipulation of any kind. I just feel as though I am being watched, in a rather cold and condescending manner, by those who really don't like me one little bit. I think I was supposed to do something, and that I have failed to do it, but I don't have a clue what 'it' is. The wild-goose chase continues.
How should I proceed with the following list?
1. The Teachings of Jesus.
2. The U.S. Constitution.
3. The Latin Mass.
4. The Classical Sacred Music.
5. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System.
Once again, I am really interested to see what emerges when throughtful people, carefully and prayerfully examine the possible integration of the components of this list. This is a suggested starting point - and not necessarily the ending point - with no further discussion. I frankly haven't gotten very far with this - but I'm trying. If someone focused upon this short list for five years - what would emerge? What would the various countries of the solar system think about such an arrangement? What would the various religions of the solar system think about such an arrangement? What would the various races of the solar system (human and otherwise) think of such an arrangement? Would a basically good idea become quickly corrupted by the same old individuals and factions? The whole world might go through a societal meltdown prior to anything like this actually being implemented. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System might take the better part of a century to implement. Who knows? Whatever happens - I'm sure that it will involve a HUGE amount of conflict and misunderstanding. Things are moving so quickly - and the gang of facts are quite brutal - so don't expect paradise too quickly. We might be lucky to simply survive this century. I will continue to be a mixture of incurable optimism and unyielding despair. Namaste.
How should I proceed with the following list?
1. The Teachings of Jesus.
2. The U.S. Constitution.
3. The Latin Mass.
4. The Classical Sacred Music.
5. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System.
Once again, I am really interested to see what emerges when throughtful people, carefully and prayerfully examine the possible integration of the components of this list. This is a suggested starting point - and not necessarily the ending point - with no further discussion. I frankly haven't gotten very far with this - but I'm trying. If someone focused upon this short list for five years - what would emerge? What would the various countries of the solar system think about such an arrangement? What would the various religions of the solar system think about such an arrangement? What would the various races of the solar system (human and otherwise) think of such an arrangement? Would a basically good idea become quickly corrupted by the same old individuals and factions? The whole world might go through a societal meltdown prior to anything like this actually being implemented. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System might take the better part of a century to implement. Who knows? Whatever happens - I'm sure that it will involve a HUGE amount of conflict and misunderstanding. Things are moving so quickly - and the gang of facts are quite brutal - so don't expect paradise too quickly. We might be lucky to simply survive this century. I will continue to be a mixture of incurable optimism and unyielding despair. Namaste.
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The First Shall Be Last and the Last Shall Be First.
I have attempted to deal with the topic of solar system governance by pretending to be an insider - interacting with all aspects of the hypothetical Secret Government. I don't know where this will ultimately lead - but I doubt that it will end well - for me at least. I've imagined travelling throughout the solar system as an ambassador or coordinator of sorts - who is trying to transform the Secret Solar System Government into a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System. I haven't had a clue how to proceed - and I have stepped on a lot of very sensitive toes - connected to feet which can kick one where it counts - swiftly and firmly. I have already experienced much more agony than ecstasy. The horror. I have interacted with those who have seemed to be 'out of this world' - even though I know that sounds corny. I have tried to stay 'on topic' just for the heck of it - and occasionally I even succeeded. This has been an experiment - and I seem to have ended-up right back where I started. Who knows - I might eventually end-up becoming a member of the Illuminati - or at least be (or continue to be) their worst enemy and best buddy!
This thread has been a continuation of the 'United States of the Solar System' thread from Project Avalon 1 (RIP). I have been using the term 'Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System' more and more because it is so descriptive and concise. The U.S. seems to be in the doghouse - and it's not hard to understand why. But if the Secret Government rules the Visible Government - this may explain 90% of the problems. I just wish to keep conceptualizing Solar System Governance - from a wide variety of perspectives. Take a look at the original thread - and then tell me what you think. This is an ongoing research project - but mostly in my mind. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15878
I have really tried to hijack the Secret Government and the New World Order - rather than fighting it. I'm a United Nations Country Club Constitutionalist - rather than a Shotgun and Constitution in My Truck Constitutionalist. I have tried to get better acquainted with the Vatican, the United Nations, the City of London, and Washington D.C. I have also looked at a lot of the fringe material regarding the Underground Bases and the Secret Space Program - but I have pretended to be a non-corrupt member of the Illuminati - or even (as strange and delusional as it seems) imagined being a non-corrupt god or goddess (with a very small 'g') who is completely onboard with the U.S. Constitution and the Teachings of Jesus. This has been a very strange space to be in - and I don't recommend these mind-games to everyone. Don't try this at home kiddies!
It's midnight. Do you know where your secret government is headquartered? Got cosmic clearance? Someone's knocking on my door. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qiu-CEylTOM&feature=related It's a middle-aged man dressed in a three-piece suit. There's a black Suburban with multiple antennas parked in my driveway. My dog is barking furiously. My heart is pounding. I open the door slowly. 'Yes?', I stammer. I am greeted with a terse, 'orthodoxymoron I presume?' I nod affirmatively, as I ask 'Who are you? Why are you here?' The man responds by flashing an official looking badge, and formally stating, 'I am Agent Scranton with the NSA. You need to come with me. Your home and dog will be well cared for, but you must come with me now.' 'What the...' I am interrupted with a firm 'all of your questions will be answered in due time - but you must come with me immediately.' I reluctantly follow - shutting the door behind me - and climbing into the front seat of the still running Suburban.
'What's going on? Where are we going?', I gasp - as we race down the fast lane of the interstate highway at 20 over the speed-limit. Scranton answers, 'a situation has arisen as a direct result of your internet posting. The Solar System Powers That Be have been instructed by the Galactic Powers That Be - in no uncertain terms - that fundamental changes must be made regarding the policies and activities in this solar system - and that they approve, in general, of your editorial bias, as expressed over the last couple of years on various web sites. They have specified that they want you to interact with the major players throughout the solar system - to bring about these changes - in an evolutionary, but not revolutionary, manner.' 'O My God!' I exclaim - as I sink lower and lower in the bucket-seat. 'What have I gotten myself into? I don't know what to say or do. I just posted random thoughts, and asked stupid questions, to try to figure out what's going on in this crazy world. Why me? How do I know that you're telling me the truth? How do I know that you're not just kidnapping me? How do I know that I'm not going to end up as food for the reptilians?' 'Look orthodoxymoron - this is serious! This world was slated for an extermination event, which has now been placed on hold - pending the success or failure of the reforming efforts.'
'Exterminatus Interruptus?', I smirk. 'Get with the program wise-guy! Nobody likes you! Your house is a mess. Your life is a mess. You don't have a degree. You're not an insider. You're politically incorrect. You're just a smart-alec with no brains and no track record. The visible and legitmate government hates you. The secret government hates you. The Annunaki hate you. The reptilians and greys hate you. The church hates you. The Jesuits and Alphabet Agents hate you. Satan and Lucifer hate you. Jesus loves you - but everyone else thinks you're an @$$hole! You have no friends. Your co-workers hate you. Your family hates you. You even hate yourself - don't you? Everyone is furious with the strong-arm tactics of the Galactic Powers That Be - but there's not a damn thing they can do about it! The deliberately inflicted disasters in the Gulf of Mexico and in Fukushima were part of this fiasco. The Solar System Powers That Be have to cooperate with you - whether they like it or not!' Everyone thinks this is a sick joke. You have no support. You will fail. The New World Order, with a world human population of 500,000,000...is inevitable. You are simply prolonging the agony. You're not good enough for anyone. No Nobel Peace Prize for you. You should've written an Old Testamental Justification for Nuking Iran! Why don't you just give-up? Curse God - and commit suicide! To be, or not to be? That is the question.
I count to ten, and calmly respond, 'OK...I'm going to need a helluva lot more evidence that what you are saying is really true. I don't trust anyone - not even myself. I think this might be some sort of a MILAB or a CIA mind-control experiment. You claim that 'everyone' hates me - well to be quite honest - I don't like you Scranton!' 'Like me or not - it's showtime pretty-boy - and you'd better watch your backside - because there are a lot of reptilians, greys, and humans who want to see you fail BIG TIME!' I take a deep breath - try to relax - and calmly whisper, 'Agent Scranton - if we can't even get along - how in the hell am I supposed to interact constructively with the PTB?' Scranton gives me a sideways look, and whispers back, 'You need to know your place. This thing is bigger than you can possibly imagine - and if you come on strong like 'Ghost Busters' - the system will eat you alive.' I sheepishly reply, 'I dreamed of a perfected humanity living in a perfected solar system. I had big ideas. But now that I am confronted with this - I'm not so sure any more. I don't know where to begin. By the way - where are we going?'
'I'm driving you to a small airport about 5 minutes from here. There you will board a Navy helicopter, which will fly you to an undisclosed location. Everything is compartmentalized. No one knows what anyone else is doing, or where they're going. The system likes it that way. You'll see.' I query, 'Who should I watch-out for?' 'Lucifer.' 'Lucifer?' I'm shocked, and exclaim, 'I asked you a serious question - and now you're being a wise-guy with me!' Scranton has a poker-face, and responds, 'I am very, very serious. What they taught you in Sunday school is BS. Lucifer is the most beautiful woman you have ever seen in your life. She runs this solar system - and answers only to Satan.' 'Now wait a minute! This is ridiculous! I speculated about this sort of thing on the internet - but I didn't really believe it. You're jerking my chain - aren't you?' 'No. I am deadly serious - and I mean DEADLY serious. I'm giving you a heads-up, because you will need to be prepared for the worst. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned - and you have scorned the woman most closely connected with hell. Lucifer's IQ is 532. She has the equivalent of 87 PhD's. She is NOT the forgive and forget type. If you cross her - you're dead-meat - and you've crossed her BIG TIME!'
'When will I have the privilege of meeting her majesty?' 'Soon. But first you must go through 'Galactic Boot Camp' to learn how to survive in the shadowy underworld. This will NOT be a pleasant experience!' I am perplexed, 'Why does this seem so militaristic and hostile? I feel as though I am entering into a Nazi realm of sorts!' 'You are. You will be very lucky to remain sane. Many who have tried to save the world by being knights in shining armor - are now heavily sedated in secret mental institutions.' I nervously blurt-out, 'I can hardly wait for the fun to begin! Fortunately - I'm already insane. I crossed that bridge a long time ago. But I have learned to function somewhat productively and safely - in a limited sort of way - in mainstream society.' Scranton is not amused. 'orthodoxymoron - this isn't funny! You haven't seen the dazed and hopeless expressions on the faces of these formerly brave and intelligent people - who are now reduced to rocking back and forth in the fetal position.' I sheepishly reply, 'Sorry. I'm just very nervous and apprehensive about all of this.' Scranton looks me straight in the eye, and says, 'Be afraid. Be very afraid.'
I see a Navy Sea Stallion helicopter looming in the distance - with rotor spinning - waiting to devour me. My rendezvous with destiny is imminent. As we pull up alongside the helicopter - I turn to thank Agent Scranton for the ride - and I notice that his eyes have vertical slits instead of round pupils. I gasp slightly, and he notices my surprise, and laughingly shakes his head, saying 'you haven't seen anything yet! I'm just a 70% human/30% reptile hybrid - and I forgot to put my contacts in when I got the call to pick you up! Sorry about that! I still don't like you - but good-luck anyway!' My hand is shaking as I shake Scranton's hand - and I stumble and fall as I run toward the waiting helicopter. Is this the Helicopter to Hell?
The pilot and co-pilot greet me, as I climb aboard the Sea Stallion helicopter. The door closes with a dull thud - and off we go, into the wild blue yonder! But something is wrong! This seems more like a spacecraft than a helicopter! The helicopter exterior was a hologram! Suddenly everything is dark - and I look out the window - and see thousands of very bright stars! Then I realize that I am onboard an antigravity craft! The co-pilot turns to me, saying, 'Welcome to Astra Airlines!' 'Oh My God!', I exclaim. 'Where the hell are we going?' 'We're just taking you to the International Space Station.' 'Just?!' 'What's going to happen there?' 'You'll find out soon enough. They don't tell us anything. We only know enough to do our jobs properly. Curiosity kills cats, careers - and sometimes it even kills people.'
I suddenly feel light-headed and euphoric. I seem to be in sort of a waking dream-state. I seem to be experiencing a prophetic vision. I see a church in California...in my mind's eye...with a group of well-dressed and solemn people meeting with Lucifer (who is dressed in black with a long cape) and looks like a combination of Ra in Stargate and Anna in 'V', and is very cold and stoic. The subject is theology, governance...and transition of power. The conditions have finally been met...which require Lucifer to transfer control of the solar system to Michael/????/Horus/Jesus/???? and 10,000 human beings. Lucifer is furious...and is arrogantly hissing 'We had you fooled!' 'What took you so long!' 'We didn't think you could do it!' 'You got out of our grasp just in time!' 'If you only knew what we had planned for you!' 'OK...you can try to rule yourselves!' 'Good luck! You're going to need it!' 'If you only knew what we've been through because of you!' 'If you only knew what we've had to do to keep you alive!' 'We were good to you!' With that...Lucifer rises...struts out of the room...and into an elevator...which descends to an unkown sub-level...boards a waiting leviton train...travels to Pine Gap, Australia at twice the speed of sound...and boards a mothership...filled with hardcore followers (humans, reptilians, and greys)...destination - Sirius. The date: December 21, 2012.
Regardless of my internet comments, I am very appreciative of all of the Powers That Be throughout history who have tried to do the right thing, regardless of their purity or corruption, and regardless of their success or failure. I am generally disrespectful and irreverent, but I mean no harm. My comments are not based upon any inside knowledge, so I am probably not even close to the real truth. I just want to stimulate everyone to think deeply in a sort of an esoteric masturbation of the mind.
Once again - I just want to wish Satan, Lucifer, Gods, Goddesses, Angels, Demons, Archangels, Illuminati, Megalomaniacs, Reptilians, Greys, Top People with Top Clearances, et al - a terrific day. I really think we can work this thing out - without enslavement, extermination, Star Wars, or Masters of the Universe. Imagine 10,000 very competent humans engaging in Global and Solar System Governance - with advisors which might include all of the above. The absolute power corrupting thing seems to be the big problem.
When I ask questions - especially regarding fringe topics which are especially controversial - I'm really asking 'Am I sane?' It drives me crazy when answers are not forthcoming. I really just want something in place which facilitates unity and freedom for all races - and which is based upon truth rather than lies. I'm only poking and prodding because things are so screwed-up, and because they seem to have been screwed-up for thousands of years. I fear that things will continue to be screwed-up for thousands of years - if we even survive.
Should I continue to speculate regarding the possible Luciferian origins (or hijacking and twisting) of theology, mythology, architecture, sacred music, and sacred texts? Or should I just shut up? Have I more than made my point? Do I need to learn to know when to stop? Have I worn out my welcome? Even if I'm right - or even partially right - is this subject too hot to handle? Is it a threat to national security? Are all of us actors on a stage? Is Lucifer the script-writer and/or redacter? Has this been going on for a long, long time? Could this entire world be one big Colosseum Event - a Galactic Theater of the Universe? Is it time for WE THE PEOPLE OF EARTH to close the curtain - and START WRITING OUR OWN SCRIPT? Just wondering. So - one more time - how should I proceed with the following list?
1. The Teachings of Jesus.
2. The U.S. Constitution.
3. The Latin Mass.
4. The Classical Sacred Music.
5. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System.
Solar System Without End - orthodoxymoron.
Namaste to the People of the World. I Know in Whom I Have Believed. On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand. All Other Ground is Sinking Sand. Namaste to the Beings of the Universe.
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:36 pm; edited 3 times in total
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
This is what happens when a demon becomes aroused and gets horny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704&feature=related
Is the painting below, representative of how things have worked for thousands of years - right up to today? Who's lurking in the background (including the figures in the very back)? Think about it.
When I speak of the the Roman Catholic Church as possibly being the Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church - I am not trying to be mean or destructive. I am simply trying to understand something which might be unbelievably complex and upsetting. I think this phenomenon - whatever it's true nature - is a mixture of good and evil - triumph and tragedy - agony and ecstasy. We need to properly understand it - whatever it is - and then positively reinforce the best of the past - and march confidently into a Brave New Universe. But I think we need to take our time - and really get it right. Take everything I say with a sea of salt. I still think St. Peter's needs that 1875 Cavaille-Coll Designed Pipe-Organ. http://cdmnet.org/Julian/schemes/props/rome.htm Look at me - with all of my talk about the the Whore of Babylon and the Teachings of Jesus - suggesting a new pipe-organ for St. Peter's!! Once again - this is why I call myself 'orthodoxymoron'. I look forward to hearing the Italian equivalents of Widor, Vierne, Dupre, Cochereau, Roth, and Chauchefer-Choplin! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjqbee8cRyw&feature=related Perhaps this project will be completed just in time for the enthronement of a Female Pope - who has just been elected by hundreds of millions of people throughout the solar system!!! Might we be on the verge of Experiencing the Resurrection of the Demythologized Jesus as Lord Within the Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church in Modernity???!!! What Would Schillebeeckx and Bultmann Say???!!! WWJD???!!! 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPk_-ix38_Q 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKv07xDxBXQ
St. Peter's, Vatican City
Cavaillé-Coll's proposal 1875
Mutin's proposal 1910
For many years Cavaillé-Coll cherished the hope that he might build a great west-end organ for St. Peter's Basilica, Vatican City. "With the organ at St. Peter's I shall crown my career", he is reported to have said. He drew up a stoplist in 1875, and made a model of the proposed organ in 1887 (above). Here is the 1875 scheme:
I GRAND-ORGUE
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Montre front
16 Bourdon
8 Montre
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Viole de Gambe
8 Bourdon
8 Dulciana
5 1/3 Grosse Quinte
4 Prestant
4 Octave
4 Flûte
Jeux de Combinaison:
2 2/3 Quinte
2 Doublette
IV Grande Fourniture
V Grosse Cymbale
III Fourniture
IV Cymbale
16 Basson
8 Trompette Harmonique
8 Basson
4 Clairon
I GRAND-CHOEUR
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Basse Acoustique
16 Grosse Flûte Harmonique
8 Diapason
8 Violoncelle
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Unda Maris (tc)
4 Prestant
4 Flûte Octaviante
2 Octavin
Jeux de Combinaison:
V Grand Cornet (8ft.)
III Sesquialtera (8ft.)
16 Tuba Magna
8 Tuba Mirabilis
5 1/3 Quinte Trompete
4 Clairon
2 Clairon Doublette
II BOMBARDE
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Principale Basse
16 Quintatön
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Flûte Conique
8 Kéraulophone
8 Bourdon
4 Grosse Flûte
4 Octave
Jeux de Combinaison:
3 1/5 Grosse Tierce
2 2/3 Nazard
2 2/7 Septième
2 Octavin
V Grosse Cornet (16ft.)
16 Bombarde
8 Trompette
4 Clairon
III POSITIF
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Violon Basse
8 Bourdon
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Traversière
8 Cor de Nuit
8 Salicional
8 Voix Angélique
4 Flûte Douce
4 Dulciana
Jeux de Combinaison:
2 2/3 Quinte
2 Doublette
V Plein Jeu (8ft.)
16 Cor d'Harmonie
8 Trompette Harmonique
8 Cromorne
8 Basson et Hautbois
IV RÉCIT-EXPRESSIF
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Bourdon
16 Corni Dolci
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Flûte à Pavillon
8 Viole de Gambe
8 Voix Céleste
4 Dulciana
4 Flûte Octaviante
Jeux de Combinaison:
4 Octave
2 Flageolet
V Cornet (8ft.)
8 Musette
8 Voix Humaine
16 Basson
8 Trompette Harmonique
4 Clairon Harmonique
Tremolo
V SOLO EXPRESSIF
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Soubasse
16 Flûte Conique
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Traversière Harmonique
8 Quintatön
4 Flûte Octaviante
Jeux de Combinaison:
2 2/3 Nazard
2 Doublette
1 3/5 Tierce
1 1/3 Larigot
1 1/7 Septième
1 Piccolo
16 Cor Anglais
8 Clarinette
8 Trompette Harmonique
4 Violon Harmonique
Tremolo
PÉDALE
Jeux de Fonds:
32 Principale Basse
32 Montre
32 Gros Bourdon
32 Basse Acoustique
16 Grosse Flûte
16 Contre-Basse
16 Violon-Basse
16 Soubasse
10 2/3 Grosse Quinte
8 Grosse Flûte
8 Diapason
8 Violoncelle
8 Bourdon
Jeux de Combinaison:
6 2/5 Grand Tierce
5 1/3 Grosse Quinte
4 4/7 Septième
4 Octave
32 Contre Bombarde
16 Bombarde
10 2/3 Quinte Bombarde
8 Trompette
4 Clairon
Compasses: 61/30.
R. Meyrick-Roberts, writing at length about the scheme in 'The Organ' quarterly, January 1925, commented:
"One of the first things that the reader observes in regard to the distribution of sounding stops, is that the stops for each department were very definitely calculated and apportioned; no department received its number of stops in any haphazard manner; so we find (proportionately) a very equal number in the various departments; 22 being allotted to the first division of the great organ, and 22 to the pedal organ; the second division of the great organ - the grand choeur - has 16, and a similar number (16) to each of the remaining departments. The great and grand choeur combined form a complete great of 38 sounding stops played from the first clavier.
...
"In the bombarde department the mutation ranks (each drawing separately) are gross tierce 3 1/5ft., quint 2 2/3ft. and seventh 2 2/7ft.; forming with the fifteenth a IV-rank mixture. In the solo department we find these same ranks repeated, but an octave higher in pitch. All through the various departments of the organ the stops have been apportioned out with an almost mathematical exactness of division and disposition, both in regard to the relative size of one department to another, and the number of stops of various pitches in each department. The scheme is a notable specimen of the art of scientific and architectural tonal-building.
...
"The first four departments stand on open soundboards, and are in all respects tonally complete organs, differing but in degrees of power; and when gradually built up and the various divisions are added and coupled to each other - by means of the ventils and the couplers - make possible a crescendo of more or less one tonal quality, - from a small "full organ" effect to an overwhelming full organ; or a similar crescendo (or diminuendo) of foundation stops only. Or, if needs be, of reeds and chorus work only. The possibilties of such a design as this under consideration are immense... The stops of the first four manual departments, together with the pedal (but exculding the unda maris and vox angelica) form a total of nearly ninety speaking stops on unenclosed soundboards, the combined ensemble forming practically a manual department of sixty-eight stops and a pedal of twenty-two stops. How superb the idea!"
If we compare this scheme with those of Cavaillé-Coll's large organs at Notre-Dame and St. Sulpice, Paris, we find perceptible differences of emphasis. At 86 stops, Notre-Dame (1863-68) was considerably smaller than the Rome proposal, and therefore more tightly-knit. Its choruses coalesced even more closely:
BOMBARDE GRAND GRAND PEDALE
ORGUE CHOEUR
32
16 16 16
16 16 16
10 2/3
8
8
8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8
6 2/5
5 1/3 5 1/3
4 4/7
4
4 4 4 4
3 1/5
2 2/3 2 2/3
2 2/7
2 2 2
1 3/5
1 1/3
1 1/7
1
II
IV
II
V IV
32
16 16 16 16
16
8 8 8 8
8
4 4 4 4
The organ at St. Sulpice (1857-62), though larger than Notre-Dame, had a less rigorously architectural stoplist; there was a greater proportion of unison colour, and a greater number of small choruses and effects. The Rome stoplist marries the virtues of each approach.
In an article in 'The Organ' quarterly, April 1956, W.L. Sumner recounted Cavaillé-Coll's unsuccessful attempts to bring his plans to fruition. Cavaillé-Coll had built an acclaimed organ in the American College, Rome, in 1868, and Pope Pius IX had been interested in his organ at the 1869 Vatican Exhibition of Religious Art. But it seems that the Chapter of St. Peter's pleaded financial hardship; Pope Pius wistfully remarked "Suspendimus organa nostra". Despite repeated petitions, Cavaillé-Coll died in 1899 without his dream being realised.
Under the pontificate of Pius X, interest in the sceme was revived. Charles Mutin, successor to Cavaillé-Coll, prepared a revised stoplist, and in Paris a committee was formed to raise money for the organ. But public interest was slight, and the project was once more abandoned.
Here is Mutin's 1910 stoplist. The Grand-Choeur department has gone, its stops incorporated into the Bombarde and Solo divisions; there are some late-romantic trimmings - the Récit strings, the 64ft. pedal stop, the additional battery of tubas - as well as more upperwork throughout. Jean Huré pointed out (in 'The Organ' quarterly, April 1926) that the 4ft. Violon Harmonique register on Cavaillé-Coll's Solo and Mutin's Positif was a reed stop, and that "When used with a gentle tremolo it is often mistaken for orchestral violins. Anyone that has heard the reeds of Cavaillé-Coll will not be surprised at this miracle".
I GRAND-ORGUE
16 Montre
16 Gambe
16 Bourdon
10 2/3 Quinte
8 Montre
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Viole de Gambe
8 Bourdon
8 Dulciana
5 1/3 Grosse Quinte
4 Prestant
4 Octave
4 Flûte Octaviante
2 2/3 Quinte
2 Doublette
1 3/5 Tierce
IV Grosse Fourniture
V Grosse Cymbale
III Fourniture
IV Cymbale
16 Bombarde
16 Basson
8 Trompette Harmonique
8 Basson
4 Clairon
4 Soprano
II BOMBARDE
16 Principal Basse
16 Quintatön
8 Jubal
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Flûte Conique
8 Keraulophone
8 Bourdon
5 1/3 Grosse Quinte
4 Grosse Flûte
4 Principal
4 Violon
3 1/5 Tierce
2 2/3 Quinte
2 2/7 Septième
2 Octavin
1 3/5 Tierce
1 Piccolo Harmonique
V Grosse Cornet (16ft.)
V Plein Jeu
16 Tuba Magna
8 Tuba Mirabilis
5 1/3 Trompette Quinte
4 Clairon
2 Clairon Doublette
III POSITIF EXPRESSIF
16 Violone Basse
16 Bourdon
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Traversière
8 Cor de Nuit
8 Salicional
8 Viola
8 Voix Angélique (tc)
4 Principal
4 Flûte Douce
2 2/3 Nasard
2 Flageolet
III Carillon
V Cornet (8ft.)
V Plein Jeu
16 Cor d'Harmonie
8 Trompette Harmonique
8 Cromorne
8 Basson-Hautbois
4 Violon Harmonique
IV RÉCIT EXPRESSIF
16 Gambe
16 Bourdon
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Flûte à Pavillon
8 Bourdon
8 Viole de Gambe 1
8 Viole de Gambe 2
8 Voix Célestes 1 (tc)
8 Voix Célestes 2 (tc)
5 1/3 Quinte
4 Prestant
4 Flûte Octaviante
4 Viole d'Amour
4 Éoline
3 1/5 Grosse Tierce
2 2/3 Nazard
2 2/7 Septième
2 Octavin
1 3/5 Tierce
1 1/3 Larigot
1 1/7 Septeième
1 Piccolo
V Cornet (16ft.)
VII Plein Jeu
16 Clarinette
8 Clarinette
8 Voix Humaine
8 Musette (4ft.?)
16 Bombarde
8 Trompette Harmonique
5 1/3 Quinte Trompette
4 Clairon Harmonique
2 Clairon Doublette
V SOLO
16 Soubasse
16 Flûte Conique
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Traversière
8 Quintaton
8 Viola di Gamba
4 Violon
4 Flûte Octaviante
2 2/3 Nazard
2 Doublette
1 3/5 Tierce
1 1/3 Nazard
1 1/7 Septième
1 Piccolo
16 Cor Anglais
8 Cor Harmonique
8 Trompette Harmonique
4 Clairon Harmonique
en chamade:
16 Tuba Magna
8 Tuba Mirabilis
5 1/3 Quinte Trompette
4 Cor Harmonique
PÉDALE
32 Basse Acoustique
32 Principal Basse
32 Montre
16 Grosse Flûte
16 Contre Basse
16 Violon Basse
16 Soubasse
10 2/3 Grosse Quinte
8 Grosse Flûte
8 Diapason
8 Violoncelle
8 Bourdon
6 2/5 Grande Tierce
5 1/3 Grosse Quinte
4 4/7 Septième
4 Octave
4 Viole
4 Flûte
3 1/5 Tierce
2 2/3 Quinte
32 Contre Bombarde
16 Bombarde
10 2/3 Quinte Bombarde
8 Trompette
5 1/3 Quintonet
4 Clairon
Boutons de combinaisons (94), pedales de combinaisons (21).
Compass: 61/30.
No extension or borrowing throughout.
10,603 pipes.
SOURCES
Cavaillé-Coll's stoplist: 'Aristide Cavaille-Coll : ses origines - sa vie - ses oeuvres' by Cécile and Emmanuel Cavaillé-Coll (1929, Paris)
Mutin's stoplist: 'The Organ' quarterly, April 1956.
General information in 'Basilical Organs of Rome' by Graziano Fronzuto, in 'The Organ Club Journal', May 2000.
Is the painting below, representative of how things have worked for thousands of years - right up to today? Who's lurking in the background (including the figures in the very back)? Think about it.
When I speak of the the Roman Catholic Church as possibly being the Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church - I am not trying to be mean or destructive. I am simply trying to understand something which might be unbelievably complex and upsetting. I think this phenomenon - whatever it's true nature - is a mixture of good and evil - triumph and tragedy - agony and ecstasy. We need to properly understand it - whatever it is - and then positively reinforce the best of the past - and march confidently into a Brave New Universe. But I think we need to take our time - and really get it right. Take everything I say with a sea of salt. I still think St. Peter's needs that 1875 Cavaille-Coll Designed Pipe-Organ. http://cdmnet.org/Julian/schemes/props/rome.htm Look at me - with all of my talk about the the Whore of Babylon and the Teachings of Jesus - suggesting a new pipe-organ for St. Peter's!! Once again - this is why I call myself 'orthodoxymoron'. I look forward to hearing the Italian equivalents of Widor, Vierne, Dupre, Cochereau, Roth, and Chauchefer-Choplin! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjqbee8cRyw&feature=related Perhaps this project will be completed just in time for the enthronement of a Female Pope - who has just been elected by hundreds of millions of people throughout the solar system!!! Might we be on the verge of Experiencing the Resurrection of the Demythologized Jesus as Lord Within the Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church in Modernity???!!! What Would Schillebeeckx and Bultmann Say???!!! WWJD???!!! 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPk_-ix38_Q 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKv07xDxBXQ
St. Peter's, Vatican City
Cavaillé-Coll's proposal 1875
Mutin's proposal 1910
For many years Cavaillé-Coll cherished the hope that he might build a great west-end organ for St. Peter's Basilica, Vatican City. "With the organ at St. Peter's I shall crown my career", he is reported to have said. He drew up a stoplist in 1875, and made a model of the proposed organ in 1887 (above). Here is the 1875 scheme:
I GRAND-ORGUE
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Montre front
16 Bourdon
8 Montre
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Viole de Gambe
8 Bourdon
8 Dulciana
5 1/3 Grosse Quinte
4 Prestant
4 Octave
4 Flûte
Jeux de Combinaison:
2 2/3 Quinte
2 Doublette
IV Grande Fourniture
V Grosse Cymbale
III Fourniture
IV Cymbale
16 Basson
8 Trompette Harmonique
8 Basson
4 Clairon
I GRAND-CHOEUR
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Basse Acoustique
16 Grosse Flûte Harmonique
8 Diapason
8 Violoncelle
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Unda Maris (tc)
4 Prestant
4 Flûte Octaviante
2 Octavin
Jeux de Combinaison:
V Grand Cornet (8ft.)
III Sesquialtera (8ft.)
16 Tuba Magna
8 Tuba Mirabilis
5 1/3 Quinte Trompete
4 Clairon
2 Clairon Doublette
II BOMBARDE
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Principale Basse
16 Quintatön
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Flûte Conique
8 Kéraulophone
8 Bourdon
4 Grosse Flûte
4 Octave
Jeux de Combinaison:
3 1/5 Grosse Tierce
2 2/3 Nazard
2 2/7 Septième
2 Octavin
V Grosse Cornet (16ft.)
16 Bombarde
8 Trompette
4 Clairon
III POSITIF
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Violon Basse
8 Bourdon
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Traversière
8 Cor de Nuit
8 Salicional
8 Voix Angélique
4 Flûte Douce
4 Dulciana
Jeux de Combinaison:
2 2/3 Quinte
2 Doublette
V Plein Jeu (8ft.)
16 Cor d'Harmonie
8 Trompette Harmonique
8 Cromorne
8 Basson et Hautbois
IV RÉCIT-EXPRESSIF
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Bourdon
16 Corni Dolci
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Flûte à Pavillon
8 Viole de Gambe
8 Voix Céleste
4 Dulciana
4 Flûte Octaviante
Jeux de Combinaison:
4 Octave
2 Flageolet
V Cornet (8ft.)
8 Musette
8 Voix Humaine
16 Basson
8 Trompette Harmonique
4 Clairon Harmonique
Tremolo
V SOLO EXPRESSIF
Jeux de Fonds:
16 Soubasse
16 Flûte Conique
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Traversière Harmonique
8 Quintatön
4 Flûte Octaviante
Jeux de Combinaison:
2 2/3 Nazard
2 Doublette
1 3/5 Tierce
1 1/3 Larigot
1 1/7 Septième
1 Piccolo
16 Cor Anglais
8 Clarinette
8 Trompette Harmonique
4 Violon Harmonique
Tremolo
PÉDALE
Jeux de Fonds:
32 Principale Basse
32 Montre
32 Gros Bourdon
32 Basse Acoustique
16 Grosse Flûte
16 Contre-Basse
16 Violon-Basse
16 Soubasse
10 2/3 Grosse Quinte
8 Grosse Flûte
8 Diapason
8 Violoncelle
8 Bourdon
Jeux de Combinaison:
6 2/5 Grand Tierce
5 1/3 Grosse Quinte
4 4/7 Septième
4 Octave
32 Contre Bombarde
16 Bombarde
10 2/3 Quinte Bombarde
8 Trompette
4 Clairon
Compasses: 61/30.
R. Meyrick-Roberts, writing at length about the scheme in 'The Organ' quarterly, January 1925, commented:
"One of the first things that the reader observes in regard to the distribution of sounding stops, is that the stops for each department were very definitely calculated and apportioned; no department received its number of stops in any haphazard manner; so we find (proportionately) a very equal number in the various departments; 22 being allotted to the first division of the great organ, and 22 to the pedal organ; the second division of the great organ - the grand choeur - has 16, and a similar number (16) to each of the remaining departments. The great and grand choeur combined form a complete great of 38 sounding stops played from the first clavier.
...
"In the bombarde department the mutation ranks (each drawing separately) are gross tierce 3 1/5ft., quint 2 2/3ft. and seventh 2 2/7ft.; forming with the fifteenth a IV-rank mixture. In the solo department we find these same ranks repeated, but an octave higher in pitch. All through the various departments of the organ the stops have been apportioned out with an almost mathematical exactness of division and disposition, both in regard to the relative size of one department to another, and the number of stops of various pitches in each department. The scheme is a notable specimen of the art of scientific and architectural tonal-building.
...
"The first four departments stand on open soundboards, and are in all respects tonally complete organs, differing but in degrees of power; and when gradually built up and the various divisions are added and coupled to each other - by means of the ventils and the couplers - make possible a crescendo of more or less one tonal quality, - from a small "full organ" effect to an overwhelming full organ; or a similar crescendo (or diminuendo) of foundation stops only. Or, if needs be, of reeds and chorus work only. The possibilties of such a design as this under consideration are immense... The stops of the first four manual departments, together with the pedal (but exculding the unda maris and vox angelica) form a total of nearly ninety speaking stops on unenclosed soundboards, the combined ensemble forming practically a manual department of sixty-eight stops and a pedal of twenty-two stops. How superb the idea!"
If we compare this scheme with those of Cavaillé-Coll's large organs at Notre-Dame and St. Sulpice, Paris, we find perceptible differences of emphasis. At 86 stops, Notre-Dame (1863-68) was considerably smaller than the Rome proposal, and therefore more tightly-knit. Its choruses coalesced even more closely:
BOMBARDE GRAND GRAND PEDALE
ORGUE CHOEUR
32
16 16 16
16 16 16
10 2/3
8
8
8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8
6 2/5
5 1/3 5 1/3
4 4/7
4
4 4 4 4
3 1/5
2 2/3 2 2/3
2 2/7
2 2 2
1 3/5
1 1/3
1 1/7
1
II
IV
II
V IV
32
16 16 16 16
16
8 8 8 8
8
4 4 4 4
The organ at St. Sulpice (1857-62), though larger than Notre-Dame, had a less rigorously architectural stoplist; there was a greater proportion of unison colour, and a greater number of small choruses and effects. The Rome stoplist marries the virtues of each approach.
In an article in 'The Organ' quarterly, April 1956, W.L. Sumner recounted Cavaillé-Coll's unsuccessful attempts to bring his plans to fruition. Cavaillé-Coll had built an acclaimed organ in the American College, Rome, in 1868, and Pope Pius IX had been interested in his organ at the 1869 Vatican Exhibition of Religious Art. But it seems that the Chapter of St. Peter's pleaded financial hardship; Pope Pius wistfully remarked "Suspendimus organa nostra". Despite repeated petitions, Cavaillé-Coll died in 1899 without his dream being realised.
Under the pontificate of Pius X, interest in the sceme was revived. Charles Mutin, successor to Cavaillé-Coll, prepared a revised stoplist, and in Paris a committee was formed to raise money for the organ. But public interest was slight, and the project was once more abandoned.
Here is Mutin's 1910 stoplist. The Grand-Choeur department has gone, its stops incorporated into the Bombarde and Solo divisions; there are some late-romantic trimmings - the Récit strings, the 64ft. pedal stop, the additional battery of tubas - as well as more upperwork throughout. Jean Huré pointed out (in 'The Organ' quarterly, April 1926) that the 4ft. Violon Harmonique register on Cavaillé-Coll's Solo and Mutin's Positif was a reed stop, and that "When used with a gentle tremolo it is often mistaken for orchestral violins. Anyone that has heard the reeds of Cavaillé-Coll will not be surprised at this miracle".
I GRAND-ORGUE
16 Montre
16 Gambe
16 Bourdon
10 2/3 Quinte
8 Montre
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Viole de Gambe
8 Bourdon
8 Dulciana
5 1/3 Grosse Quinte
4 Prestant
4 Octave
4 Flûte Octaviante
2 2/3 Quinte
2 Doublette
1 3/5 Tierce
IV Grosse Fourniture
V Grosse Cymbale
III Fourniture
IV Cymbale
16 Bombarde
16 Basson
8 Trompette Harmonique
8 Basson
4 Clairon
4 Soprano
II BOMBARDE
16 Principal Basse
16 Quintatön
8 Jubal
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Flûte Conique
8 Keraulophone
8 Bourdon
5 1/3 Grosse Quinte
4 Grosse Flûte
4 Principal
4 Violon
3 1/5 Tierce
2 2/3 Quinte
2 2/7 Septième
2 Octavin
1 3/5 Tierce
1 Piccolo Harmonique
V Grosse Cornet (16ft.)
V Plein Jeu
16 Tuba Magna
8 Tuba Mirabilis
5 1/3 Trompette Quinte
4 Clairon
2 Clairon Doublette
III POSITIF EXPRESSIF
16 Violone Basse
16 Bourdon
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Traversière
8 Cor de Nuit
8 Salicional
8 Viola
8 Voix Angélique (tc)
4 Principal
4 Flûte Douce
2 2/3 Nasard
2 Flageolet
III Carillon
V Cornet (8ft.)
V Plein Jeu
16 Cor d'Harmonie
8 Trompette Harmonique
8 Cromorne
8 Basson-Hautbois
4 Violon Harmonique
IV RÉCIT EXPRESSIF
16 Gambe
16 Bourdon
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Harmonique
8 Flûte à Pavillon
8 Bourdon
8 Viole de Gambe 1
8 Viole de Gambe 2
8 Voix Célestes 1 (tc)
8 Voix Célestes 2 (tc)
5 1/3 Quinte
4 Prestant
4 Flûte Octaviante
4 Viole d'Amour
4 Éoline
3 1/5 Grosse Tierce
2 2/3 Nazard
2 2/7 Septième
2 Octavin
1 3/5 Tierce
1 1/3 Larigot
1 1/7 Septeième
1 Piccolo
V Cornet (16ft.)
VII Plein Jeu
16 Clarinette
8 Clarinette
8 Voix Humaine
8 Musette (4ft.?)
16 Bombarde
8 Trompette Harmonique
5 1/3 Quinte Trompette
4 Clairon Harmonique
2 Clairon Doublette
V SOLO
16 Soubasse
16 Flûte Conique
8 Diapason
8 Flûte Traversière
8 Quintaton
8 Viola di Gamba
4 Violon
4 Flûte Octaviante
2 2/3 Nazard
2 Doublette
1 3/5 Tierce
1 1/3 Nazard
1 1/7 Septième
1 Piccolo
16 Cor Anglais
8 Cor Harmonique
8 Trompette Harmonique
4 Clairon Harmonique
en chamade:
16 Tuba Magna
8 Tuba Mirabilis
5 1/3 Quinte Trompette
4 Cor Harmonique
PÉDALE
32 Basse Acoustique
32 Principal Basse
32 Montre
16 Grosse Flûte
16 Contre Basse
16 Violon Basse
16 Soubasse
10 2/3 Grosse Quinte
8 Grosse Flûte
8 Diapason
8 Violoncelle
8 Bourdon
6 2/5 Grande Tierce
5 1/3 Grosse Quinte
4 4/7 Septième
4 Octave
4 Viole
4 Flûte
3 1/5 Tierce
2 2/3 Quinte
32 Contre Bombarde
16 Bombarde
10 2/3 Quinte Bombarde
8 Trompette
5 1/3 Quintonet
4 Clairon
Boutons de combinaisons (94), pedales de combinaisons (21).
Compass: 61/30.
No extension or borrowing throughout.
10,603 pipes.
SOURCES
Cavaillé-Coll's stoplist: 'Aristide Cavaille-Coll : ses origines - sa vie - ses oeuvres' by Cécile and Emmanuel Cavaillé-Coll (1929, Paris)
Mutin's stoplist: 'The Organ' quarterly, April 1956.
General information in 'Basilical Organs of Rome' by Graziano Fronzuto, in 'The Organ Club Journal', May 2000.
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The Holy Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ according to Mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGf-KgGh_g&NR=1
35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire. 36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you? 37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit , one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory. 38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask. Can ye drink of the cup that I drink of, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? 39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized. 40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared. 41 And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John. 42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. 45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. -- Mark 10:35-45 KJV
The Gospel of the Lord.
THE time of the Passover was drawing near, and again Jesus turned toward Jerusalem. In His heart was the peace of perfect oneness with the Father's will, and with eager steps He pressed on toward the place of sacrifice. But a sense of mystery, of doubt and fear, fell upon the disciples. The Saviour "went before them: and they were amazed; and as they followed, they were afraid." Again Christ called the twelve about Him, and with greater definiteness than ever before, He opened to them His betrayal and sufferings. "Behold," He said, "we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For He shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: and they shall scourge Him, and put Him to death: and the third day He shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Had they not just before proclaimed everywhere, "The kingdom of heaven is at hand"? Had not Christ Himself promised that many should sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of God? Had He not promised to all who had left aught for His sake a hundredfold in this life, and a part in His kingdom? And had He not given to the twelve the special promise of positions of high honor in His kingdom,--to sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel? Even now He had said that all things written in the prophets concerning Him should be fulfilled. And had not the prophets foretold the glory of the Messiah's reign? In the light of these thoughts, His words in regard to betrayal, persecution, and death seemed vague and shadowy. Whatever difficulties might intervene, they believed that the kingdom was soon to be established.
John, the son of Zebedee, had been one of the first two disciples who had followed Jesus. He and his brother James had been among the first group who had left all for His service. Gladly they had forsaken home and friends that they might be with Him; they had walked and talked with Him; they had been with Him in the privacy of the home, and in the public assemblies. He had quieted their fears, delivered them from danger, relieved their sufferings, comforted their grief, and with patience and tenderness had taught them, till their hearts seemed linked with His, and in the ardor of their love they longed to be nearest to Him in His kingdom. At every possible opportunity, John took his place next the Saviour, and James longed to be honored with as close connection with Him. Their mother was a follower of Christ, and had ministered to Him freely of her substance. With a mother's love and ambition for her sons, she coveted for them the most honored place in the new kingdom. For this she encouraged them to make request. Together the mother and her sons came to Jesus, asking that He would grant a petition on which their hearts were set. "What would ye that I should do for you?" He questioned. The mother answered, "Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on Thy right hand, and the other on the left, in Thy kingdom." Jesus bears tenderly with them, not rebuking their selfishness in seeking preference above their brethren. He reads their hearts, He knows the depth of their attachment to Him. Their love is not a mere human affection; though defiled by the earthliness of its human channel, it is an outflowing from the fountain of His own redeeming love. He will not rebuke, but deepen and purify. He said, "Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" They recall His mysterious words, pointing to trial and suffering, yet answer confidently, "We are able." They would count it highest honor to prove their loyalty by sharing all that is to befall their Lord. "Ye shall drink indeed of My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with," He said; before Him a cross instead of a throne, two malefactors His companions at His right hand and His left. John and James were to share with their Master in suffering; the one, first of the brethren to perish with the sword; the other, longest of all to endure toil, and reproach, and persecution. But to sit on My right hand, and on My left," He continued, "is not Mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of My Father." In the kingdom of God, position is not gained through favoritism. It is not earned, nor is it received through an arbitrary bestowal. It is the result of character. The crown and the throne are the tokens of a condition attained; they are the tokens of self-conquest through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Long afterward, when the disciple had been brought into sympathy with Christ through the fellowship of His sufferings, the Lord revealed to John what is the condition of nearness in His kingdom. "To him that overcometh," Christ said, "will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne." "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, . . . and I will write upon him My new name." Rev. 3:21, 12. So Paul the apostle wrote, "I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day." 2 Tim. 4:6-8. The one who stands nearest to Christ will be he who on earth has drunk most deeply of the spirit of His self-sacrificing love,--love that "vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, . . . seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil" (1 Cor. 13:4, 5),--love that moves the disciple, as it moved our Lord, to give all, to live and labor and sacrifice, even unto death, for the saving of humanity. This spirit was made manifest in the life of Paul. He said, "For to me to live is Christ;" for his life revealed Christ to men; "and to die is gain,"--gain to Christ; death itself would make manifest the power of His grace, and gather souls to Him. "Christ shall be magnified in my body," he said, "whether it be by life or by death." Phil. 1:21, 20. When the ten heard of the request of James and John, they were much displeased. The highest place in the kingdom was just what every one of them was seeking for himself, and they were angry that the two disciples had gained a seeming advantage over them. Again the strife as to which should be greatest seemed about to be renewed, when Jesus, calling them to Him, said to the indignant disciples, "Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you."
In the kingdoms of the world, position meant self-aggrandizement. The people were supposed to exist for the benefit of the ruling classes. Influence, wealth, education, were so many means of gaining control of the masses for the use of the leaders. The higher classes were to think, decide, enjoy, and rule; the lower were to obey and serve. Religion, like all things else, was a matter of authority. The people were expected to believe and practice as their superiors directed. The right of man as man, to think and act for himself, was wholly unrecognized. Christ was establishing a kingdom on different principles. He called men, not to authority, but to service, the strong to bear the infirmities of the weak. Power, position, talent, education, placed their possessor under the greater obligation to serve his fellows. To even the lowliest of Christ's disciples it is said, "All things are for your sakes." 2 Cor. 4:15. "The Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give His life a ransom for many." Among His disciples Christ was in every sense a caretaker, a burden bearer. He shared their poverty, He practiced self-denial on their account, He went before them to smooth the more difficult places, and soon He would consummate His work on earth by laying down His life. The principle on which Christ acted is to actuate the members of the church which is His body. The plan and ground of salvation is love. In the kingdom of Christ those are greatest who follow the example He has given, and act as shepherds of His flock.
The words of Paul reveal the true dignity and honor of the Christian life: "Though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all," "not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved." 1 Cor. 9:19; 10:33. In matters of conscience the soul must be left untrammeled. No one is to control another's mind, to judge for another, or to prescribe his duty. God gives to every soul freedom to think, and to follow his own convictions. "Every one of us shall give account of himself to God." No one has a right to merge his own individuality in that of another. In all matters where principle is involved, "let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." Rom. 14:12, 5. In Christ's kingdom there is no lordly oppression, no compulsion of manner. The angels of heaven do not come to the earth to rule, and to exact homage, but as messengers of mercy, to co-operate with men in uplifting humanity. The principles and the very words of the Saviour's teaching, in their divine beauty, dwelt in the memory of the beloved disciple. To his latest days the burden of John's testimony to the churches was, "This is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another." "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because He laid down His life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren." 1 John 3:11, 16. This was the spirit that pervaded the early church. After the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, "the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own." "Neither was there any among them that lacked." "And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all." Acts 4:32, 34, 33. -- Chapter 60 of Desire of Ages by Ellen White https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTbhHE0jM
35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire. 36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you? 37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit , one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory. 38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask. Can ye drink of the cup that I drink of, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? 39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized. 40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared. 41 And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John. 42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. 45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. -- Mark 10:35-45 KJV
The Gospel of the Lord.
THE time of the Passover was drawing near, and again Jesus turned toward Jerusalem. In His heart was the peace of perfect oneness with the Father's will, and with eager steps He pressed on toward the place of sacrifice. But a sense of mystery, of doubt and fear, fell upon the disciples. The Saviour "went before them: and they were amazed; and as they followed, they were afraid." Again Christ called the twelve about Him, and with greater definiteness than ever before, He opened to them His betrayal and sufferings. "Behold," He said, "we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For He shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: and they shall scourge Him, and put Him to death: and the third day He shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Had they not just before proclaimed everywhere, "The kingdom of heaven is at hand"? Had not Christ Himself promised that many should sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of God? Had He not promised to all who had left aught for His sake a hundredfold in this life, and a part in His kingdom? And had He not given to the twelve the special promise of positions of high honor in His kingdom,--to sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel? Even now He had said that all things written in the prophets concerning Him should be fulfilled. And had not the prophets foretold the glory of the Messiah's reign? In the light of these thoughts, His words in regard to betrayal, persecution, and death seemed vague and shadowy. Whatever difficulties might intervene, they believed that the kingdom was soon to be established.
John, the son of Zebedee, had been one of the first two disciples who had followed Jesus. He and his brother James had been among the first group who had left all for His service. Gladly they had forsaken home and friends that they might be with Him; they had walked and talked with Him; they had been with Him in the privacy of the home, and in the public assemblies. He had quieted their fears, delivered them from danger, relieved their sufferings, comforted their grief, and with patience and tenderness had taught them, till their hearts seemed linked with His, and in the ardor of their love they longed to be nearest to Him in His kingdom. At every possible opportunity, John took his place next the Saviour, and James longed to be honored with as close connection with Him. Their mother was a follower of Christ, and had ministered to Him freely of her substance. With a mother's love and ambition for her sons, she coveted for them the most honored place in the new kingdom. For this she encouraged them to make request. Together the mother and her sons came to Jesus, asking that He would grant a petition on which their hearts were set. "What would ye that I should do for you?" He questioned. The mother answered, "Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on Thy right hand, and the other on the left, in Thy kingdom." Jesus bears tenderly with them, not rebuking their selfishness in seeking preference above their brethren. He reads their hearts, He knows the depth of their attachment to Him. Their love is not a mere human affection; though defiled by the earthliness of its human channel, it is an outflowing from the fountain of His own redeeming love. He will not rebuke, but deepen and purify. He said, "Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" They recall His mysterious words, pointing to trial and suffering, yet answer confidently, "We are able." They would count it highest honor to prove their loyalty by sharing all that is to befall their Lord. "Ye shall drink indeed of My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with," He said; before Him a cross instead of a throne, two malefactors His companions at His right hand and His left. John and James were to share with their Master in suffering; the one, first of the brethren to perish with the sword; the other, longest of all to endure toil, and reproach, and persecution. But to sit on My right hand, and on My left," He continued, "is not Mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of My Father." In the kingdom of God, position is not gained through favoritism. It is not earned, nor is it received through an arbitrary bestowal. It is the result of character. The crown and the throne are the tokens of a condition attained; they are the tokens of self-conquest through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Long afterward, when the disciple had been brought into sympathy with Christ through the fellowship of His sufferings, the Lord revealed to John what is the condition of nearness in His kingdom. "To him that overcometh," Christ said, "will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne." "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, . . . and I will write upon him My new name." Rev. 3:21, 12. So Paul the apostle wrote, "I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day." 2 Tim. 4:6-8. The one who stands nearest to Christ will be he who on earth has drunk most deeply of the spirit of His self-sacrificing love,--love that "vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, . . . seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil" (1 Cor. 13:4, 5),--love that moves the disciple, as it moved our Lord, to give all, to live and labor and sacrifice, even unto death, for the saving of humanity. This spirit was made manifest in the life of Paul. He said, "For to me to live is Christ;" for his life revealed Christ to men; "and to die is gain,"--gain to Christ; death itself would make manifest the power of His grace, and gather souls to Him. "Christ shall be magnified in my body," he said, "whether it be by life or by death." Phil. 1:21, 20. When the ten heard of the request of James and John, they were much displeased. The highest place in the kingdom was just what every one of them was seeking for himself, and they were angry that the two disciples had gained a seeming advantage over them. Again the strife as to which should be greatest seemed about to be renewed, when Jesus, calling them to Him, said to the indignant disciples, "Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you."
In the kingdoms of the world, position meant self-aggrandizement. The people were supposed to exist for the benefit of the ruling classes. Influence, wealth, education, were so many means of gaining control of the masses for the use of the leaders. The higher classes were to think, decide, enjoy, and rule; the lower were to obey and serve. Religion, like all things else, was a matter of authority. The people were expected to believe and practice as their superiors directed. The right of man as man, to think and act for himself, was wholly unrecognized. Christ was establishing a kingdom on different principles. He called men, not to authority, but to service, the strong to bear the infirmities of the weak. Power, position, talent, education, placed their possessor under the greater obligation to serve his fellows. To even the lowliest of Christ's disciples it is said, "All things are for your sakes." 2 Cor. 4:15. "The Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give His life a ransom for many." Among His disciples Christ was in every sense a caretaker, a burden bearer. He shared their poverty, He practiced self-denial on their account, He went before them to smooth the more difficult places, and soon He would consummate His work on earth by laying down His life. The principle on which Christ acted is to actuate the members of the church which is His body. The plan and ground of salvation is love. In the kingdom of Christ those are greatest who follow the example He has given, and act as shepherds of His flock.
The words of Paul reveal the true dignity and honor of the Christian life: "Though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all," "not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved." 1 Cor. 9:19; 10:33. In matters of conscience the soul must be left untrammeled. No one is to control another's mind, to judge for another, or to prescribe his duty. God gives to every soul freedom to think, and to follow his own convictions. "Every one of us shall give account of himself to God." No one has a right to merge his own individuality in that of another. In all matters where principle is involved, "let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." Rom. 14:12, 5. In Christ's kingdom there is no lordly oppression, no compulsion of manner. The angels of heaven do not come to the earth to rule, and to exact homage, but as messengers of mercy, to co-operate with men in uplifting humanity. The principles and the very words of the Saviour's teaching, in their divine beauty, dwelt in the memory of the beloved disciple. To his latest days the burden of John's testimony to the churches was, "This is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another." "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because He laid down His life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren." 1 John 3:11, 16. This was the spirit that pervaded the early church. After the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, "the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own." "Neither was there any among them that lacked." "And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all." Acts 4:32, 34, 33. -- Chapter 60 of Desire of Ages by Ellen White https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTbhHE0jM
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:23 pm; edited 3 times in total
lindabaker- Posts : 1385
Join date : 2010-04-15
Location : straight ahead
I'll answer your question regarding your list. The only thing I have a problem with, is a Vatican-based Namaste...
I understand that the Vatican is also a geographical location. But, really? After what we know of the history? Why not start fresh with no pomp and circumstance? With no hoarding of gold and other wealth? I'm not saying take down the Vatican, but proceed with caution. It's the ones who are in the buildings, not the buildings themselves which are at the center of the strangest spiritual devolution I could have ever imagined. WWJD? He'd give the buildings to the people. He'd give the gold hoards to the people. And he would remove the darkness that still abides in those grand places. Just some musings on Easter morning. Linda
I understand that the Vatican is also a geographical location. But, really? After what we know of the history? Why not start fresh with no pomp and circumstance? With no hoarding of gold and other wealth? I'm not saying take down the Vatican, but proceed with caution. It's the ones who are in the buildings, not the buildings themselves which are at the center of the strangest spiritual devolution I could have ever imagined. WWJD? He'd give the buildings to the people. He'd give the gold hoards to the people. And he would remove the darkness that still abides in those grand places. Just some musings on Easter morning. Linda
lindabaker- Posts : 1385
Join date : 2010-04-15
Location : straight ahead
Another thing. I'm gonna bun you unless you consider an alternative to your Lucifer theory. Lucifer is not a beautiful woman demon. I mean, come on. It's not woman, the life giver, who is the destroyer. It is the male still in pathological mode. All we have to do is read the news. Is it not obvious that demonizing the female life giver is the biggest lie of all? Get your head out of the woman hating roman line of thinking and start honoring the real beauty, the creative force in this world. It's called life. It's the destroyers who are twisting your head around. It's not the life givers who are evil. It's the life destroyers. How simple is that?
Mercuriel- Admin
- Posts : 3497
Join date : 2010-04-07
Location : Walking the Path...
Actually - I do agree with You Linda but in a different way than what You and likely Oxy would think...
At the Expressional Level of Satan and Lucifer (Upper 4D) as well as the rest of the Demonic / Angelic Realms - Gender is scalable and all Beings are technically Hermaphrodites in their Native, Un-Illusioned Form.
That said - They can be many things to many Beings and can represent whatever They wish to portray as an Avatar but I will agree with You on this Linda ;
Neither Satan nor Lucifer have portrayed Themselves to Me as Females - Only Males. Other Fallen have come across as Female Avatars though...
That said - Perhaps Lucifer and Satan HAVE revealed Themselves to ODM as Females but with that said - I also find It hard to see that the chosen Native Avatar of either Being (Satan or Lucifer) with Their destructive tendencies would ever portray a Female slant to Their true un-Illusioned Being...
At the Expressional Level of Satan and Lucifer (Upper 4D) as well as the rest of the Demonic / Angelic Realms - Gender is scalable and all Beings are technically Hermaphrodites in their Native, Un-Illusioned Form.
That said - They can be many things to many Beings and can represent whatever They wish to portray as an Avatar but I will agree with You on this Linda ;
Neither Satan nor Lucifer have portrayed Themselves to Me as Females - Only Males. Other Fallen have come across as Female Avatars though...
That said - Perhaps Lucifer and Satan HAVE revealed Themselves to ODM as Females but with that said - I also find It hard to see that the chosen Native Avatar of either Being (Satan or Lucifer) with Their destructive tendencies would ever portray a Female slant to Their true un-Illusioned Being...
_________________
Namaste...
Peace, Light, Love, Harmony and Unity...
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
Comments:
1. I'll answer your question regarding your list. The only thing I have a problem with, is a Vatican-based Namaste...
I understand that the Vatican is also a geographical location. But, really? After what we know of the history? Why not start fresh with no pomp and circumstance? With no hoarding of gold and other wealth? I'm not saying take down the Vatican, but proceed with caution. It's the ones who are in the buildings, not the buildings themselves which are at the center of the strangest spiritual devolution I could have ever imagined. WWJD? He'd give the buildings to the people. He'd give the gold hoards to the people. And he would remove the darkness that still abides in those grand places. Just some musings on Easter morning. Linda
2. Another thing. I'm gonna bun you unless you consider an alternative to your Lucifer theory. Lucifer is not a beautiful woman demon. I mean, come on. It's not woman, the life giver, who is the destroyer. It is the male still in pathological mode. All we have to do is read the news. Is it not obvious that demonizing the female life giver is the biggest lie of all? Get your head out of the woman hating roman line of thinking and start honoring the real beauty, the creative force in this world. It's called life. It's the destroyers who are twisting your head around. It's not the life givers who are evil. It's the life destroyers. How simple is that?
3. Actually - I do agree with You Linda but in a different way than what You and likely Oxy would think...
At the Expressional Level of Satan and Lucifer (Upper 4D) as well as the rest of the Demonic / Angelic Realms - Gender is scalable and all Beings are technically Hermaphrodites in their Native, Un-Illusioned Form.
That said - They can be many things to many Beings and can represent whatever They wish to portray as an Avatar but I will agree with You on this Linda ;
Neither Satan nor Lucifer have portrayed Themselves to Me as Females - Only Males. Other Fallen have come across as Female Avatars though...
That said - Perhaps Lucifer and Satan HAVE revealed Themselves to ODM as Females but with that said - I also find It hard to see that the chosen Native Avatar of either Being (Satan or Lucifer) with Their destructive tendencies would ever portray a Female slant to Their true un-Illusioned Being...
Response:
Thank-you Linda and Mercuriel. I seek a changing of the guard at the Vatican - at the visible and invisible levels. I seek to replace Canon Law with the Teachings of Jesus and the U.S. Constitution. The artistic aspects would remain - but governance and theology would be completely changed. There really wouldn't be one stone left upon another. The following re-post might help regarding my alleged woman-hating. Did you notice a couple of posts ago - where I spoke glowingly regarding a FEMALE POPE?
When I speak of the the Roman Catholic Church as possibly being the Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church - I am not trying to be mean or destructive. I am simply trying to understand something which might be unbelievably complex and upsetting. I think this phenomenon - whatever it's true nature - is a mixture of good and evil - triumph and tragedy - agony and ecstasy. We need to properly understand it - whatever it is - and then positively reinforce the best of the past - and march confidently into a Brave New Universe. But I think we need to take our time - and really get it right. Take everything I say with a sea of salt. I still think St. Peter's needs that 1875 Cavaille-Coll Designed Pipe-Organ. http://cdmnet.org/Julian/schemes/props/rome.htm Look at me - with all of my talk about the the Whore of Babylon and the Teachings of Jesus - suggesting a new pipe-organ for St. Peter's!! Once again - this is why I call myself 'orthodoxymoron'. I look forward to hearing the Italian equivalents of Widor, Vierne, Dupre, Cochereau, Roth, and Chauchefer-Choplin! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjqbee8cRyw&feature=related Perhaps this project will be completed just in time for the enthronement of a Female Pope - who has just been elected by hundreds of millions of people throughout the solar system!!! Might we be on the verge of Experiencing the Resurrection of the Demythologized Jesus as Lord Within the Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church in Modernity???!!! What Would Schillebeeckx and Bultmann Say???!!! WWJD???!!! 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPk_-ix38_Q 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKv07xDxBXQ
I seem to be fixated upon the Queen of Heaven - in positive and negative ways. Was/is she Amen Ra's boss - or is she ALL of the gods and goddesses - including Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, Hathor, Isis, Mary, the Prince of This World, the God of This World - and Amen Ra? I'm trying to utilize Occam's Razor to cut the crap - and I'm trying to eliminate Hegel and Machiavelli. But I really do like Sun Tzu. Watch this lecture by Robert Morningsky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxFzH3goUsc&NR=1 Listen especially to what he says about Amen Ra's boss. It fits with what I have been speculating about for a couple of years now. Ra might be the One and Only God of This World - but there seems to be a Reptilian Queen of Heaven - who seems to wear the pants in this Solar System. Who is Ra - really? Who is Lucifer - really? Who is Jesus - really? Who is Mary - really? Who is Kali - really? Ra Ka Pharaoh = Rockefeller? Ra's Shield = Rothschild? Ra's Legion = Religion? Old and New Test(Amen)ts? Think, think, think. Once again - please forgive my slightly irreverent and off-color humor. I really mean no disrespect to anyone. I'm just trying to break the ice. Take a look at this very interesting video. http://www.veoh.com/watch/v20134239KT5yFj3g Could this reveal the true form of the Queen of Heaven? There is something which rings strangely and hauntingly true about this. Could this be very close to at least part of the truth? Can the Queen inhabit dozens of various bodies - century after century - male and female? Could her soul be similar or even identical to our souls? Did Humans start the hostilities - or was it the other way around? I'm surprisingly neutral regarding all of this. I hope the Queen of Heaven has a sense of humor - or I am so dead. Check this out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMVKc5aw14g&feature=related Consider the possibility of a Vengeful Reptilian Queen of Heaven - Ruling Humanity by Secrecy - Via a Controlled Patriarchy, and a Subjugation of Women. Pretty subtle and clever.
Here is a positive look at the Vatican by National Geographic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svaxr4erV_Q Here is a Latin Mass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE&feature=related Here is another. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1872714663680800365#
""Holy Father," John Paul was asked toward the end of a private audience for visiting dignitaries in 1983, "can we expect Your Holiness to undertake many more of these papal visits to different parts of the world?" John Paul replied with candor, "Until as many men and women and children as I can reach have seen the face and heard the voice of Christ's Vicar; for I am their Pope, and this is what the Blessed Mother wishes her Son's Vicar to do."" -- taken from page 122 of 'Keys of This Blood' by Malachi Martin. What would Anna say? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAHxyD3KLc Do you notice anything odd at 00:20 - 00:30 in this 'Angels and Demons' trailer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcE8QaKiTGk&feature=related Perhaps we wrestle against flesh and blood AND that which is not flesh and blood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYV7WeaDP_8
"What captures the unwavering attention of the secular leaders of the world in this remarkable network of the Roman Catholic Church is precisely the fact that it places at the personal disposal of the Pope a supranational, supracontinental, supra-trade-bloc structure that is so built and oriented that if tomorrow or next week, by a sudden miracle, a one-world government were established, the Church would not have to undergo any essential structural change in order to retain its dominant position and to further its global aims." - taken from 'The Keys of This Blood' pages 142-143.
I love the universal, artistic, private, and meditative aspects of the Latin Mass - but I have problems with the human sacrifice aspects. I really am a walking contradiction. Mea Culpa. I am looking for a non-corrupt common-denomenator, which can possibly unite the world politically and spiritually - without coercion or persecution of any kind. I think I might be the best friend and worst enemy of just about everyone. Incidentally - I really do listen to Latin Masses on a daily basis - even though I am not a Roman Catholic. I am a Protestant Catholic New Age Agnostic - and proud of it! I find the following quotation to be both fascinating and chilling:
"When you talk of the Eucharist, you are talking about the Roman Mass, which has been and still is the central act of worship for Roman Catholics. The value of the Mass for Catholics is twofold. A Mass, in Catholic belief, presents the real live Sacrifice of the body and the blood and physical life of Jesus consummated on Calvary. It is not a commemoration of that sacrifice, nor a reenactment after the fashion of a historical drama, nor a symbolic performance. Therein lies the mystery of the Mass. When a Roman Mass is said to be valid, it is believed to achieve that mysterious presentation of Christ's sacrifice of his bodily life. It has validity; and Roman Catholics can then literally adore their Savior under the physical appearance of bread and wine." - taken from 'The Keys of This Blood' page 667.
When I speak of considering the possibility of a Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - I am speaking of a solar system without the rotten-core which has been screwing things up for thousands of years. Does anyone have any idea what I'm speaking of? Why will no one really talk to me about any of this? I feel as though I am reinventing the wheel - day after day after day. What if St. Peter's Basillica were the meeting place of the United States of the Solar System? Or what about the deconsecrated and magnificent St. Ouen in France? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueU4CDjn3v0 What about the previously mentioned modernist St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KIZ9BEM8L0&feature=related This is sort of like combining the three contenders for control of the New World Order - which Malachi Martin wrote about in 'The Keys of This Blood' - under one roof - and without the previously mentioned rogue element. Should St. Peter's be outfitted with permanent Vatican II style seating - and should daily sessions occur which would be very similar to the Senate and Congressional Sessions in Washington D.C. - only with much more glory, grandeur, reverence, awe, pomp, and circumstance? As Robert H. Schuller used to say 'The Secular Must Become Sacred - and the Sacred Must Become Secular'. I agree. The Roman Catholic Church is, in essence, a World Government - and perhaps even a Solar System Government. It's not just an antiquated and irrelevant church of superstitious non-sense. If the Roman Catholic Church is in trouble - the whole damn world is in trouble. Once again - try reading 'The Keys of This Blood' with a Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System clearly in mind. Even if this concept is impossible - I still think this possibility should be analyzed to death. The issues which would inevitably emerge, need to be thought through very, very carefully. I'm a bull in a china closet, regarding solar system governance - but I think I'm on the right track. There are highly intelligent, highly educated, and highly refined people - who would need to cut and polish this 'diamond in the rough'. I know my limitations.
I'm REALLY swimming upstream on this one. EVERYONE would fight me! But if we don't properly deal with Rome - visibly and invisibly - we're really wasting our time. I really can't attend any church presently. I've gone too far out on a limb - so I have to attend an imaginary church - which is decidedly Roman Catholic. I am imagining what an ideal Roman Catholic Church would be like. This isn't an activity I would recommend to most people - but somebody's gotta do it! I don't encourage anyone to leave the Roman Catholic Church. I don't encourage anyone to join the Roman Catholic Church. I'm not even pushing to wake everyone up! I'm just pursuing a Tempest in a Teapot Crusade - right here in this thread! This is a take it, or leave it, sort of thing. I get along fine with a Roman Catholic priest and parishioner who I see occasionally. I don't talk to them about any of this controversial stuff. There's a time and a place for everything. I guess I'm pretending to be a quiet renegade Jesuit who lives in Rome - and is quietly trying to change the church - without getting killed!
Don't underestimate or overestimate my skills in all of this. I could come across as either a genius or an idiot - depending on the situation. I'm not dogmatic or practiced regarding any of this - so a trained attack-dog would eat me alive - really. If I had access - I would sit at the back of the room in various meetings - and say very, very little - and I would be very polite. On the other hand - I could see myself arguing with the characters in 'Dogma' - in a nasty spiritual war! I've even jokingly thought about getting some sort of a robe to wear while I post my heresy on the internet! But that would be sort of silly - wouldn't it? I used to like wearing a robe at the Crystal Cathedral. It makes a person feel more special than they deserve to feel! The pancake makeup for tv makes one look better than they deserve to look!
Regarding 'Dogma' - I think we should practice to out-argue the main characters. Their direct and in-your-face approach has it's advantages and disadvantages - but most of us don't know what the hell we are doing when it comes to the really important issues in the universe. The so called 'Regressives' can probably run circles around most of us, regarding these issues. We need to get with it - BIG TIME.
Finally, remember this part of my crusade?
We the People of Earth desire the following Church Reforms: To replace Canon Law with the Teachings of Jesus. To institute a Modified Latin Mass (with no communion - emphasizing the remembrance of Christ and His Teachings - rather than His Sacrifice) - offering Masses seven days a week - with no preference regarding the day or days of attendance. To base All Homilies, Theology, and Ritual Upon the Teachings of Jesus. To eliminate Penance and Confession (replacing both with psychological and spiritual counseling). To allow Women to be Priests and Popes. To allow Priests to Marry, and Popes to Marry (and to eliminate all blasphemous titles). To eliminate Most Crucifixes (The bloody, dying, and mostly naked Jesus should not be paraded and displayed. To remove most and clothe most of the rest. Obviously, stained-glass windows, and such, should mostly be left alone). To be Completely Honest Regarding the History of the Church, the World, the Solar System, the Galaxy, and the Universe. To institute a Program of Responsible Reproduction (lifting the ban on birth-control). To base Civil and Church Governance on the U.S. Constitution.
We the People of Earth desire the following Solar System Reforms: TO BASE THIS SOLAR SYSTEM UPON RESPONSIBILITY AND THE U.S. CONSTITUTION. TO MAINTAIN AN EARTH HUMAN POPULATION OF FOUR BILLION (TWO BILLION SURFACE - TWO BILLION SUBSURFACE) AND FOUR BILLION THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE SOLAR SYSTEM (MOSTLY SUBSURFACE). TO BASE PHYSICAL, MENTAL, AND SPIRITUAL HEALTH UPON PREVENTION. TO MAINTAIN A PRISTINE ENVIRONMENT. TO USE ELECTRICAL POWER FOR NEARLY EVERYTHING, AND UTILIZE MAGNETO-LEVITON TRAINS FOR MOST GLOBAL TRANSPORTATION.
Probably 'We the People' don't desire these things - but my hope springs eternal. Imagine Ra (pictured below) sounding like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704
ARCHANGELS + HYBRIDIZATION + REINCARNATION = GODS AND GODDESSES?? I just listen to as many people as possible - and TRY to connect the dots. I'm also trying to think in terms of a male version of Anna - who is not creepy, corrupt, or cruel - with all of the positives, and none of the negatives. Consider the following carefully:
NIBIRUAN / SUMERIAN GODS = HINDU GODS = GREEK GODS AND SOME VATICAN, BUDDHIST, JEWISH AND SOUTH AMERICAN GODS AS WELL !!!
SEKHMET = DURGA = ARTEMIS = MUT = ATHENA = WHITE JAGUAR LADY = WHITE BUFFALO CALF WOMAN = VAISHNO DEVI
ALCYONE = SATYANARAYANA = APOLLO = PTAH = VISHNU = RAMA
AMUN RA = KRISHNA
ANAT = ERESHKIGAL = KALI = BLACK MADONNA = BLACK TARA
ASTARTE = PARVATI = WHITE TARA = MADONNA = SHEKINAH = UMA = NAMMA
MAIA = SATI = DAKSHAYANI = DAMKINA = GODDESS OF THE MOUNTAINS
ENKI = SHIVA = HOLY SPIRIT = ZEUS = CHAKRASAMVARA = AVALOKITESHWARA = CHENREZIG = LUCIFER = EA = ADONAI = HADAD = BA'AL = RUDRA = KAAL BHAIRAVA
AN = ANU = PARA BRAHMA = YAHVEH = ALLAH
THE GREAT RA = AMEN RA = PRAKASH BRAHMA = HIGHER ASPECT OF YAHVEH = FATHER OF THE GODS
ANSAR = ABZU = ABBA = APSU = KASHYAPA = ADITYA = SURYA = SUN GOD = SHAMASH = DUAS PITA = SATYAVAT MANU = SWAYAMBHU = VYWAMUS
DHARMA DEV = YAMA
INDRA = PAN = VAJRAPANI
GAIA = ADITI = BHU = BHOOMI DEVI = KOUMUDHI = KAMADHENU = NINHURSAG = KI = URAS = EARTH GODDESS
ENLIL = GARBHODAKASAYANI = JEHOVAH
NINLIL = LAKSHMI = GODDESS OF GRAIN
MOON GOD = CHANDRA DEV = NANNA
INANNA = LILITH = SELENE = MOHINI
DUMUZI = ADAMU = ADAM = DAMU
EVE = KHEBA = NINTI
NERGAL = NARAKASURA
TIAMAT = TARAKA
TYPHON = PULOMAN
THOTH = GANESHA = HERMES
MARDUK = MURUGAN = KARTHIKEYA = NIMROD = MARS
HORUS = OSIRIUS = SANAT KUMARA = EROS = DIONYSUS = ANCIENT OF DAYS = TAMMUZ = MIN = KAMDEV = PRADYUMNA
ISIS = MARY = MARIAMMA = KOUMARI = VENUS = APHRODITE = ISHTAR = SEMIRAMIS = HATHOR = MAYAVATI = KANYAKUMARI = TRIPURA SUNDARI = RATI = 16 YEAR OLD GODDESS
JESUS = SANANDA KUMARA
MARY MAGDALENE = LADY NADA
HADES = SHANI = SATAN = WRATHFUL TIBETAN DEITY
7 ARCHANGELS = 7 SAPTARISHIS = COUNCIL OF SEVEN
ATLAS = HIMAVAN = DAKSHA = EL
PLEIONE = MENAKA
APEP = KALASURA
7 PLAIEDES' SISTERS = 7 KRITTIKAS = 7 SAPTA MATRIKAS
PARASURAM = GILGAMESH; NOAH = VIVASVAT MANU; NOAH'S ARC = MALAYAN HILLS.
WILD COW GODDESS = NINSUN = NININSINA = RENUKA
HUMBABA = TRISHANKU = KALMASHAPADA
SARASWATI = SESHAT
HERACLES = HERCULES = ARJUNA
ENOCH = METATRON
HERA = INDRANI
AURORA = USHA
EOS = SAVITA
VARUNA = POSEIDON
MITHRA = ZOROASTRA
TVASTRI = HAPHAESTOS = BUNENE
HOLY GRAIL = AMRITAM = SOMA = LIFE ELIXIR = NECTAR OF IMMORTALITY
THE LIST IS ENDLESS!
THE NIBIRUAN GODS ( NIBIRU = NEBADON = VULCAN = PLANET X = WORMWOOD FROM SIRIUS B ) HAD THEIR BASES EVERYWHERE.
ALL THE RELIGIONS HAVE THE SAME SOURCE !
( BIBLE -> BY-BAL -> BY BA'AL( ENKI))
( QURAN -> QUR-AN / ANU )
MANY OF THE COMPARED CHARACTERS/ INCIDENTS MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED AT ONE PLACE AND THEN IMPLANTED INTO ANOTHER CULTURE FOR THEIR BENEFIT.
SOURCE :
http://www.galacticroundtable.com/fo...ods-hindu-gods
TAMMUZ, SEMIRAMIS, AND NIMROD?? THE ORIGINAL TRINITY? SON, HOLY SPIRIT, AND FATHER??
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyKy8_sF4xY 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTbhHE0jM&playnext=1&list=PL57CD22A624DDD6B3
SEMIRAMIS AND TAMMUZ??
ISIS AND HORUS??
SEMIRAMIS, TAMMUZ, AND NIMROD??
"in the final time of crisis,
the Serpent Goddess will shake herself loose from her deep exiled sleep
in the earth's belly.
Perhaps the serpent of life's flowing energy
will begin to rise again,
all luminous and of the earth,
and the children of our Great Mother will rise up with it,
and the universe will be our home again, as before.
This flight is not an escape, but a return.
The only way for humans to survive the end is
to return to the beginning."
From "The Great Cosmic Mother"
Femme Fatale
1. I'll answer your question regarding your list. The only thing I have a problem with, is a Vatican-based Namaste...
I understand that the Vatican is also a geographical location. But, really? After what we know of the history? Why not start fresh with no pomp and circumstance? With no hoarding of gold and other wealth? I'm not saying take down the Vatican, but proceed with caution. It's the ones who are in the buildings, not the buildings themselves which are at the center of the strangest spiritual devolution I could have ever imagined. WWJD? He'd give the buildings to the people. He'd give the gold hoards to the people. And he would remove the darkness that still abides in those grand places. Just some musings on Easter morning. Linda
2. Another thing. I'm gonna bun you unless you consider an alternative to your Lucifer theory. Lucifer is not a beautiful woman demon. I mean, come on. It's not woman, the life giver, who is the destroyer. It is the male still in pathological mode. All we have to do is read the news. Is it not obvious that demonizing the female life giver is the biggest lie of all? Get your head out of the woman hating roman line of thinking and start honoring the real beauty, the creative force in this world. It's called life. It's the destroyers who are twisting your head around. It's not the life givers who are evil. It's the life destroyers. How simple is that?
3. Actually - I do agree with You Linda but in a different way than what You and likely Oxy would think...
At the Expressional Level of Satan and Lucifer (Upper 4D) as well as the rest of the Demonic / Angelic Realms - Gender is scalable and all Beings are technically Hermaphrodites in their Native, Un-Illusioned Form.
That said - They can be many things to many Beings and can represent whatever They wish to portray as an Avatar but I will agree with You on this Linda ;
Neither Satan nor Lucifer have portrayed Themselves to Me as Females - Only Males. Other Fallen have come across as Female Avatars though...
That said - Perhaps Lucifer and Satan HAVE revealed Themselves to ODM as Females but with that said - I also find It hard to see that the chosen Native Avatar of either Being (Satan or Lucifer) with Their destructive tendencies would ever portray a Female slant to Their true un-Illusioned Being...
Response:
Thank-you Linda and Mercuriel. I seek a changing of the guard at the Vatican - at the visible and invisible levels. I seek to replace Canon Law with the Teachings of Jesus and the U.S. Constitution. The artistic aspects would remain - but governance and theology would be completely changed. There really wouldn't be one stone left upon another. The following re-post might help regarding my alleged woman-hating. Did you notice a couple of posts ago - where I spoke glowingly regarding a FEMALE POPE?
When I speak of the the Roman Catholic Church as possibly being the Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church - I am not trying to be mean or destructive. I am simply trying to understand something which might be unbelievably complex and upsetting. I think this phenomenon - whatever it's true nature - is a mixture of good and evil - triumph and tragedy - agony and ecstasy. We need to properly understand it - whatever it is - and then positively reinforce the best of the past - and march confidently into a Brave New Universe. But I think we need to take our time - and really get it right. Take everything I say with a sea of salt. I still think St. Peter's needs that 1875 Cavaille-Coll Designed Pipe-Organ. http://cdmnet.org/Julian/schemes/props/rome.htm Look at me - with all of my talk about the the Whore of Babylon and the Teachings of Jesus - suggesting a new pipe-organ for St. Peter's!! Once again - this is why I call myself 'orthodoxymoron'. I look forward to hearing the Italian equivalents of Widor, Vierne, Dupre, Cochereau, Roth, and Chauchefer-Choplin! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjqbee8cRyw&feature=related Perhaps this project will be completed just in time for the enthronement of a Female Pope - who has just been elected by hundreds of millions of people throughout the solar system!!! Might we be on the verge of Experiencing the Resurrection of the Demythologized Jesus as Lord Within the Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Roman Catholic Church in Modernity???!!! What Would Schillebeeckx and Bultmann Say???!!! WWJD???!!! 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPk_-ix38_Q 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKv07xDxBXQ
I seem to be fixated upon the Queen of Heaven - in positive and negative ways. Was/is she Amen Ra's boss - or is she ALL of the gods and goddesses - including Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, Hathor, Isis, Mary, the Prince of This World, the God of This World - and Amen Ra? I'm trying to utilize Occam's Razor to cut the crap - and I'm trying to eliminate Hegel and Machiavelli. But I really do like Sun Tzu. Watch this lecture by Robert Morningsky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxFzH3goUsc&NR=1 Listen especially to what he says about Amen Ra's boss. It fits with what I have been speculating about for a couple of years now. Ra might be the One and Only God of This World - but there seems to be a Reptilian Queen of Heaven - who seems to wear the pants in this Solar System. Who is Ra - really? Who is Lucifer - really? Who is Jesus - really? Who is Mary - really? Who is Kali - really? Ra Ka Pharaoh = Rockefeller? Ra's Shield = Rothschild? Ra's Legion = Religion? Old and New Test(Amen)ts? Think, think, think. Once again - please forgive my slightly irreverent and off-color humor. I really mean no disrespect to anyone. I'm just trying to break the ice. Take a look at this very interesting video. http://www.veoh.com/watch/v20134239KT5yFj3g Could this reveal the true form of the Queen of Heaven? There is something which rings strangely and hauntingly true about this. Could this be very close to at least part of the truth? Can the Queen inhabit dozens of various bodies - century after century - male and female? Could her soul be similar or even identical to our souls? Did Humans start the hostilities - or was it the other way around? I'm surprisingly neutral regarding all of this. I hope the Queen of Heaven has a sense of humor - or I am so dead. Check this out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMVKc5aw14g&feature=related Consider the possibility of a Vengeful Reptilian Queen of Heaven - Ruling Humanity by Secrecy - Via a Controlled Patriarchy, and a Subjugation of Women. Pretty subtle and clever.
Here is a positive look at the Vatican by National Geographic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svaxr4erV_Q Here is a Latin Mass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE&feature=related Here is another. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1872714663680800365#
""Holy Father," John Paul was asked toward the end of a private audience for visiting dignitaries in 1983, "can we expect Your Holiness to undertake many more of these papal visits to different parts of the world?" John Paul replied with candor, "Until as many men and women and children as I can reach have seen the face and heard the voice of Christ's Vicar; for I am their Pope, and this is what the Blessed Mother wishes her Son's Vicar to do."" -- taken from page 122 of 'Keys of This Blood' by Malachi Martin. What would Anna say? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAHxyD3KLc Do you notice anything odd at 00:20 - 00:30 in this 'Angels and Demons' trailer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcE8QaKiTGk&feature=related Perhaps we wrestle against flesh and blood AND that which is not flesh and blood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYV7WeaDP_8
"What captures the unwavering attention of the secular leaders of the world in this remarkable network of the Roman Catholic Church is precisely the fact that it places at the personal disposal of the Pope a supranational, supracontinental, supra-trade-bloc structure that is so built and oriented that if tomorrow or next week, by a sudden miracle, a one-world government were established, the Church would not have to undergo any essential structural change in order to retain its dominant position and to further its global aims." - taken from 'The Keys of This Blood' pages 142-143.
I love the universal, artistic, private, and meditative aspects of the Latin Mass - but I have problems with the human sacrifice aspects. I really am a walking contradiction. Mea Culpa. I am looking for a non-corrupt common-denomenator, which can possibly unite the world politically and spiritually - without coercion or persecution of any kind. I think I might be the best friend and worst enemy of just about everyone. Incidentally - I really do listen to Latin Masses on a daily basis - even though I am not a Roman Catholic. I am a Protestant Catholic New Age Agnostic - and proud of it! I find the following quotation to be both fascinating and chilling:
"When you talk of the Eucharist, you are talking about the Roman Mass, which has been and still is the central act of worship for Roman Catholics. The value of the Mass for Catholics is twofold. A Mass, in Catholic belief, presents the real live Sacrifice of the body and the blood and physical life of Jesus consummated on Calvary. It is not a commemoration of that sacrifice, nor a reenactment after the fashion of a historical drama, nor a symbolic performance. Therein lies the mystery of the Mass. When a Roman Mass is said to be valid, it is believed to achieve that mysterious presentation of Christ's sacrifice of his bodily life. It has validity; and Roman Catholics can then literally adore their Savior under the physical appearance of bread and wine." - taken from 'The Keys of This Blood' page 667.
When I speak of considering the possibility of a Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - I am speaking of a solar system without the rotten-core which has been screwing things up for thousands of years. Does anyone have any idea what I'm speaking of? Why will no one really talk to me about any of this? I feel as though I am reinventing the wheel - day after day after day. What if St. Peter's Basillica were the meeting place of the United States of the Solar System? Or what about the deconsecrated and magnificent St. Ouen in France? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueU4CDjn3v0 What about the previously mentioned modernist St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KIZ9BEM8L0&feature=related This is sort of like combining the three contenders for control of the New World Order - which Malachi Martin wrote about in 'The Keys of This Blood' - under one roof - and without the previously mentioned rogue element. Should St. Peter's be outfitted with permanent Vatican II style seating - and should daily sessions occur which would be very similar to the Senate and Congressional Sessions in Washington D.C. - only with much more glory, grandeur, reverence, awe, pomp, and circumstance? As Robert H. Schuller used to say 'The Secular Must Become Sacred - and the Sacred Must Become Secular'. I agree. The Roman Catholic Church is, in essence, a World Government - and perhaps even a Solar System Government. It's not just an antiquated and irrelevant church of superstitious non-sense. If the Roman Catholic Church is in trouble - the whole damn world is in trouble. Once again - try reading 'The Keys of This Blood' with a Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System clearly in mind. Even if this concept is impossible - I still think this possibility should be analyzed to death. The issues which would inevitably emerge, need to be thought through very, very carefully. I'm a bull in a china closet, regarding solar system governance - but I think I'm on the right track. There are highly intelligent, highly educated, and highly refined people - who would need to cut and polish this 'diamond in the rough'. I know my limitations.
I'm REALLY swimming upstream on this one. EVERYONE would fight me! But if we don't properly deal with Rome - visibly and invisibly - we're really wasting our time. I really can't attend any church presently. I've gone too far out on a limb - so I have to attend an imaginary church - which is decidedly Roman Catholic. I am imagining what an ideal Roman Catholic Church would be like. This isn't an activity I would recommend to most people - but somebody's gotta do it! I don't encourage anyone to leave the Roman Catholic Church. I don't encourage anyone to join the Roman Catholic Church. I'm not even pushing to wake everyone up! I'm just pursuing a Tempest in a Teapot Crusade - right here in this thread! This is a take it, or leave it, sort of thing. I get along fine with a Roman Catholic priest and parishioner who I see occasionally. I don't talk to them about any of this controversial stuff. There's a time and a place for everything. I guess I'm pretending to be a quiet renegade Jesuit who lives in Rome - and is quietly trying to change the church - without getting killed!
Don't underestimate or overestimate my skills in all of this. I could come across as either a genius or an idiot - depending on the situation. I'm not dogmatic or practiced regarding any of this - so a trained attack-dog would eat me alive - really. If I had access - I would sit at the back of the room in various meetings - and say very, very little - and I would be very polite. On the other hand - I could see myself arguing with the characters in 'Dogma' - in a nasty spiritual war! I've even jokingly thought about getting some sort of a robe to wear while I post my heresy on the internet! But that would be sort of silly - wouldn't it? I used to like wearing a robe at the Crystal Cathedral. It makes a person feel more special than they deserve to feel! The pancake makeup for tv makes one look better than they deserve to look!
Regarding 'Dogma' - I think we should practice to out-argue the main characters. Their direct and in-your-face approach has it's advantages and disadvantages - but most of us don't know what the hell we are doing when it comes to the really important issues in the universe. The so called 'Regressives' can probably run circles around most of us, regarding these issues. We need to get with it - BIG TIME.
Finally, remember this part of my crusade?
We the People of Earth desire the following Church Reforms: To replace Canon Law with the Teachings of Jesus. To institute a Modified Latin Mass (with no communion - emphasizing the remembrance of Christ and His Teachings - rather than His Sacrifice) - offering Masses seven days a week - with no preference regarding the day or days of attendance. To base All Homilies, Theology, and Ritual Upon the Teachings of Jesus. To eliminate Penance and Confession (replacing both with psychological and spiritual counseling). To allow Women to be Priests and Popes. To allow Priests to Marry, and Popes to Marry (and to eliminate all blasphemous titles). To eliminate Most Crucifixes (The bloody, dying, and mostly naked Jesus should not be paraded and displayed. To remove most and clothe most of the rest. Obviously, stained-glass windows, and such, should mostly be left alone). To be Completely Honest Regarding the History of the Church, the World, the Solar System, the Galaxy, and the Universe. To institute a Program of Responsible Reproduction (lifting the ban on birth-control). To base Civil and Church Governance on the U.S. Constitution.
We the People of Earth desire the following Solar System Reforms: TO BASE THIS SOLAR SYSTEM UPON RESPONSIBILITY AND THE U.S. CONSTITUTION. TO MAINTAIN AN EARTH HUMAN POPULATION OF FOUR BILLION (TWO BILLION SURFACE - TWO BILLION SUBSURFACE) AND FOUR BILLION THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE SOLAR SYSTEM (MOSTLY SUBSURFACE). TO BASE PHYSICAL, MENTAL, AND SPIRITUAL HEALTH UPON PREVENTION. TO MAINTAIN A PRISTINE ENVIRONMENT. TO USE ELECTRICAL POWER FOR NEARLY EVERYTHING, AND UTILIZE MAGNETO-LEVITON TRAINS FOR MOST GLOBAL TRANSPORTATION.
Probably 'We the People' don't desire these things - but my hope springs eternal. Imagine Ra (pictured below) sounding like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qAqwIW704
ARCHANGELS + HYBRIDIZATION + REINCARNATION = GODS AND GODDESSES?? I just listen to as many people as possible - and TRY to connect the dots. I'm also trying to think in terms of a male version of Anna - who is not creepy, corrupt, or cruel - with all of the positives, and none of the negatives. Consider the following carefully:
NIBIRUAN / SUMERIAN GODS = HINDU GODS = GREEK GODS AND SOME VATICAN, BUDDHIST, JEWISH AND SOUTH AMERICAN GODS AS WELL !!!
SEKHMET = DURGA = ARTEMIS = MUT = ATHENA = WHITE JAGUAR LADY = WHITE BUFFALO CALF WOMAN = VAISHNO DEVI
ALCYONE = SATYANARAYANA = APOLLO = PTAH = VISHNU = RAMA
AMUN RA = KRISHNA
ANAT = ERESHKIGAL = KALI = BLACK MADONNA = BLACK TARA
ASTARTE = PARVATI = WHITE TARA = MADONNA = SHEKINAH = UMA = NAMMA
MAIA = SATI = DAKSHAYANI = DAMKINA = GODDESS OF THE MOUNTAINS
ENKI = SHIVA = HOLY SPIRIT = ZEUS = CHAKRASAMVARA = AVALOKITESHWARA = CHENREZIG = LUCIFER = EA = ADONAI = HADAD = BA'AL = RUDRA = KAAL BHAIRAVA
AN = ANU = PARA BRAHMA = YAHVEH = ALLAH
THE GREAT RA = AMEN RA = PRAKASH BRAHMA = HIGHER ASPECT OF YAHVEH = FATHER OF THE GODS
ANSAR = ABZU = ABBA = APSU = KASHYAPA = ADITYA = SURYA = SUN GOD = SHAMASH = DUAS PITA = SATYAVAT MANU = SWAYAMBHU = VYWAMUS
DHARMA DEV = YAMA
INDRA = PAN = VAJRAPANI
GAIA = ADITI = BHU = BHOOMI DEVI = KOUMUDHI = KAMADHENU = NINHURSAG = KI = URAS = EARTH GODDESS
ENLIL = GARBHODAKASAYANI = JEHOVAH
NINLIL = LAKSHMI = GODDESS OF GRAIN
MOON GOD = CHANDRA DEV = NANNA
INANNA = LILITH = SELENE = MOHINI
DUMUZI = ADAMU = ADAM = DAMU
EVE = KHEBA = NINTI
NERGAL = NARAKASURA
TIAMAT = TARAKA
TYPHON = PULOMAN
THOTH = GANESHA = HERMES
MARDUK = MURUGAN = KARTHIKEYA = NIMROD = MARS
HORUS = OSIRIUS = SANAT KUMARA = EROS = DIONYSUS = ANCIENT OF DAYS = TAMMUZ = MIN = KAMDEV = PRADYUMNA
ISIS = MARY = MARIAMMA = KOUMARI = VENUS = APHRODITE = ISHTAR = SEMIRAMIS = HATHOR = MAYAVATI = KANYAKUMARI = TRIPURA SUNDARI = RATI = 16 YEAR OLD GODDESS
JESUS = SANANDA KUMARA
MARY MAGDALENE = LADY NADA
HADES = SHANI = SATAN = WRATHFUL TIBETAN DEITY
7 ARCHANGELS = 7 SAPTARISHIS = COUNCIL OF SEVEN
ATLAS = HIMAVAN = DAKSHA = EL
PLEIONE = MENAKA
APEP = KALASURA
7 PLAIEDES' SISTERS = 7 KRITTIKAS = 7 SAPTA MATRIKAS
PARASURAM = GILGAMESH; NOAH = VIVASVAT MANU; NOAH'S ARC = MALAYAN HILLS.
WILD COW GODDESS = NINSUN = NININSINA = RENUKA
HUMBABA = TRISHANKU = KALMASHAPADA
SARASWATI = SESHAT
HERACLES = HERCULES = ARJUNA
ENOCH = METATRON
HERA = INDRANI
AURORA = USHA
EOS = SAVITA
VARUNA = POSEIDON
MITHRA = ZOROASTRA
TVASTRI = HAPHAESTOS = BUNENE
HOLY GRAIL = AMRITAM = SOMA = LIFE ELIXIR = NECTAR OF IMMORTALITY
THE LIST IS ENDLESS!
THE NIBIRUAN GODS ( NIBIRU = NEBADON = VULCAN = PLANET X = WORMWOOD FROM SIRIUS B ) HAD THEIR BASES EVERYWHERE.
ALL THE RELIGIONS HAVE THE SAME SOURCE !
( BIBLE -> BY-BAL -> BY BA'AL( ENKI))
( QURAN -> QUR-AN / ANU )
MANY OF THE COMPARED CHARACTERS/ INCIDENTS MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED AT ONE PLACE AND THEN IMPLANTED INTO ANOTHER CULTURE FOR THEIR BENEFIT.
SOURCE :
http://www.galacticroundtable.com/fo...ods-hindu-gods
TAMMUZ, SEMIRAMIS, AND NIMROD?? THE ORIGINAL TRINITY? SON, HOLY SPIRIT, AND FATHER??
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyKy8_sF4xY 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTbhHE0jM&playnext=1&list=PL57CD22A624DDD6B3
SEMIRAMIS AND TAMMUZ??
ISIS AND HORUS??
SEMIRAMIS, TAMMUZ, AND NIMROD??
"in the final time of crisis,
the Serpent Goddess will shake herself loose from her deep exiled sleep
in the earth's belly.
Perhaps the serpent of life's flowing energy
will begin to rise again,
all luminous and of the earth,
and the children of our Great Mother will rise up with it,
and the universe will be our home again, as before.
This flight is not an escape, but a return.
The only way for humans to survive the end is
to return to the beginning."
From "The Great Cosmic Mother"
Femme Fatale
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:46 pm; edited 6 times in total
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
Jesus said to 'Be Wise as Serpents - and Harmless as Doves'. Interesting choice of words...
Once again, I deal in possibilities and probabilities. I am a possibility thinker - but I am both a positive and a negative thinker. I'm rapidly turning this solar system into one big set for my own semi-private science fiction show. But I'm finding a lot of supporting evidence for a lot of the possibilities. Sometimes we have to 'believe' it before we can 'see' it. I've been watching 'V' and I like it a lot - but 'V' really just helps me to use my imagination. I seem to be fixated upon the Queen of Heaven - in positive and negative ways. Was/is she Amen Ra's boss - or is she ALL of the gods and goddesses - including Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, Hathor, Isis, Mary, the Prince of This World, the God of This World - and Amen Ra? I'm trying to utilize Occam's Razor to cut the crap - and I'm trying to eliminate Hegel and Machiavelli. But I really do like Sun Tzu. I wish to win without fighting. Watch this lecture by Robert Morningsky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxFzH3goUsc&NR=1 Listen especially to what he says about Amen Ra's boss. It fits with what I have been speculating about for a couple of years now. Ra might be the One and Only God of This World - but there seems to be a Reptilian Queen of Heaven - who seems to wear the pants in this Solar System. Who is Ra - really? Who is Lucifer - really? Who is Jesus - really? Who is Mary - really? Who is Kali - really? Ra Ka Pharaoh = Rockefeller? Ra's Shield = Rothschild? Ra's Legion = Religion? Old and New Test(Amen)ts? Think, think, think. Take a look at these very interesting videos. 1. Hungry Earth: http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/scifi_and_fantasy/watch/v201120667eWbBc5e
2. Cold Blood: http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/scifi_and_fantasy/watch/v20134239KT5yFj3g Could this be the true form of the Queen of Heaven? There is something which rings strangely and hauntingly true about these episodes of 'Dr. Who'. Could this be very close to at least part of the truth? Can the Queen inhabit dozens of various bodies - century after century - male and female? Could her soul be similar or even identical to our souls? Did Humans start the hostilities - or was it the other way around? I'm surprisingly neutral regarding all of this. Check this out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMVKc5aw14g&feature=related The video producer wrote "Out of Africa, where dwells unspeakable evil, came the prehistorical suppression of eve by the hand of the pupetmaster reptilian queen. Using Religion these "wealth makers" were reduced to owned slave units by psychotic male dupes. This took thousands of years of insidious changes to "society". Consider the possibility of a Vengeful Reptilian Queen of Heaven - Ruling Humanity by Secrecy - Via a Controlled Patriarchy, and a Subjugation of Women. Pretty subtle and clever. A wise and deadly serpent? 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAHxyD3KLc 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoTz17GWxjs
I got to thinking about the Queen of England, the Pope of Rome, and the God of This World. They're a pretty exclusive trio - with extreme power - aren't they? They don't get elected by the general public, do they? Should they? I really don't know. I'm really conflicted about this sort of thing. How does a civilization make sure that they have the very best individuals in those roles? I've been trying to combine the best aspects of theocracy and democracy - and the best of the royal and servant models of leadership and authority. The whole damn thing is a slippery-slope. I've had a lot to say regarding a hypothetical Queen of Heaven ruling Earth as the Goddess of This World. I've imagined having conversations and debates with such a being - and I have really mixed-feelings about the whole thing. Extreme intelligence, economy of words, elegance, straight-forwardness, and beauty - might all be on the plus side. But harshness, cruelty, causing atrocities, committing mass-murder, corruption, deception, treachery, moral-ambiguity, and demonic-possession - might be on the negative side. But I don't know the true state of affairs. They might be human. They might be reptilian. They might be hybrid. They might be male. They might be female. They might be hermaphroditic. They might have a wardrobe of bodies. They might be able to shapeshift into any form and anyone they choose. Could a being be a God or Goddess of This World for any length of time - without becoming corrupt and insane? Are the Pope of Rome and the Queen of England - really the modern-day equivalents of the King and Queen of Egypt - serving the Hidden God Amen Ra? Are all three ruling in place of Christ? I have speculated quite a bit about this in the past. I am concerned about this, because these three seem to have control over pretty much the whole world. Is this power legitimate or illegitimate? Is this power being used benevolently and wisely? Are they doing that which is in everyone's best interest? Could the throne of this world have been stolen in antiquity? Could this hypothetical theft be ongoing? Did someone steal fire from the gods? I really and truly don't know - but I am becoming increasingly suspicious. What effect would a Michael/Horus/Jesus administered Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System have on these three? What would Michael/Horus/Jesus say? Somebody please talk to me about this. Please think long and hard about these three jobs. They don't give out job-applications - do they? This is VERY tricky territory - to say the least. I deeply appreciate the Divine Feminine as an integral part of the Divinity Within Humanity - but I am deeply suspicious of a hypothetical Reptilian/Human Hybrid, Hermaphrodite Queen of Heaven / God of This World - being at the core of monotheism - ruling a Controlled Patriarchy - and presiding over a Subjugation of Women - to control and enslave the human race - complete with the 'Chastenings of the Lord' in the form of wars, persecutions, tortures, the Crusades, the Inquisition, terrorist events, etc, etc. Who REALLY controls the Monarchy and the Papacy?
One more time: I keep thinking of reincarnating archangels, in the form of Isis and Horus, or Lucifer and Michael. I keep thinking of Gabriel looking on in disgust and condemnation - ready to end the madness with terrible finality - and not without some justification. I hate to spout off speculation - and not know what I'm talking about - but I really do want to know. I keep thinking that the human race is about to receive a great, big "GAME OVER". I'm watching a very interesting episode of 'Dr. Who' titled 'Frontier in Space' from the mid-70's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85xOQNThwYo&feature=related I keep thinking of the Doctor as being sort of a Michael-figure - and the Madame President as being sort of a Lucifer-figure. I'm not sure exactly why. Reviewing this thread might give some clues as to why I might think this way. I'm really going to try to wind this thing down - and mostly edit this thread - and maybe add some pictures and illustrations. I just started reading 'The Secret Plot to Make Ted Kennedy President' by Geoff Shepard - and 'Taking on the System' by Markos Moulitsas Zuniga. I am continuing reading 'The Jesuits', 'The Keys of This Blood', and 'Windswept House' by Malachi Martin. That ought to keep me out of trouble - for a while. I have kept thinking of Lucifer as being the Mary-figure - secretly running the Roman Catholic Church. Of course, this has been speculation, but when one keeps getting lied-to, what are they supposed to do? On the other hand, Gabriel might be most closely represented by the Madame President in the above-linked 'Dr. Who' episode - and as being the Mary-figure running the church (and not necessarily the pure Mother of Christ). Consider again, this clip from 'V'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAHxyD3KLc I get the picture of Lucifer being a behind the scenes adventurer, wheeler-dealer - who is very smart, smooth, and brave - but who can be very temperamental, sinister, and violent. I see Michael as being very good and refined - but not being BadAss like Gabriel and Lucifer. I continue to see three archangels in conflict with each other. I could be very, very wrong. Every time I post something - I feel torn-up inside - and again, I neglect important things on the home-front - and I pay a very high price for this. Could Gabriel and Lucifer really be two sides of the same coin? We? Might Michael be a prisoner/hostage of Gabriel/Lucifer? Original Hostage Michael? Front Man Michael? Gabriel/Lucifer in place of Michael/Christ - or Anti-Christ? The Roman Catholic Church might've had to deal with more problems than we can possibly imagine. Who Really ordered that Christians (including women and children) be eaten by lions in the Colliseum? Who really ordered the Crusades and Inquistion? Who really ordered the wars and terrorist events of at least the last 2,000 years? Who really ordered the Kennedy Assassinations? Who really ordered 9/11? Might they all have been ordered by the same being or beings? Think about THAT!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTbhHE0jM
Please take a VERY close look at the last couple of posts - and please tell me what you think. What is the relationship between the Archangels, the Queen of England, the Pope of Rome, and Ancient Egypt? Are the right Archangels and Human Beings in power in London and Rome? As usual - I don't know - but I suspect an Ancient Cou De Ta. Did Humanity Get Hijacked? Do we have a hostage crisis? If so - who is the hostage? To those of you who might know - what might we do to rectify the situation? Again, I don't know very much about all of this - which is why I am asking for help in this matter. I'll bet there are some people who know in Salt Lake City, Utah! I'll bet they even know a thing or two about Obama! What is really behind the name 'Original Hostage KRLLL'? 'Omnipotent Highness KRLLL'? Might this imply that an Omnipotent Highness was taken as an Original Hostage by the God of This World? Are We the Ancients? The tone of the ringing in my ears changed when I typed that! It never changes! Nuff said! Here is another interesting looking episode of 'Dr. Who'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdl2hw2Y8Ow&feature=related They're sort of old and corny - but they communicate some very interesting information. I don't think the problems facing us are anything new - and that 'they' were trying to give us clues - a long time ago. We should listen - shouldn't we? Notice the words at the top, right-middle, and bottom of this royal geneology chart. Interesting...
Once again, I deal in possibilities and probabilities. I am a possibility thinker - but I am both a positive and a negative thinker. I'm rapidly turning this solar system into one big set for my own semi-private science fiction show. But I'm finding a lot of supporting evidence for a lot of the possibilities. Sometimes we have to 'believe' it before we can 'see' it. I've been watching 'V' and I like it a lot - but 'V' really just helps me to use my imagination. I seem to be fixated upon the Queen of Heaven - in positive and negative ways. Was/is she Amen Ra's boss - or is she ALL of the gods and goddesses - including Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, Hathor, Isis, Mary, the Prince of This World, the God of This World - and Amen Ra? I'm trying to utilize Occam's Razor to cut the crap - and I'm trying to eliminate Hegel and Machiavelli. But I really do like Sun Tzu. I wish to win without fighting. Watch this lecture by Robert Morningsky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxFzH3goUsc&NR=1 Listen especially to what he says about Amen Ra's boss. It fits with what I have been speculating about for a couple of years now. Ra might be the One and Only God of This World - but there seems to be a Reptilian Queen of Heaven - who seems to wear the pants in this Solar System. Who is Ra - really? Who is Lucifer - really? Who is Jesus - really? Who is Mary - really? Who is Kali - really? Ra Ka Pharaoh = Rockefeller? Ra's Shield = Rothschild? Ra's Legion = Religion? Old and New Test(Amen)ts? Think, think, think. Take a look at these very interesting videos. 1. Hungry Earth: http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/scifi_and_fantasy/watch/v201120667eWbBc5e
2. Cold Blood: http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/scifi_and_fantasy/watch/v20134239KT5yFj3g Could this be the true form of the Queen of Heaven? There is something which rings strangely and hauntingly true about these episodes of 'Dr. Who'. Could this be very close to at least part of the truth? Can the Queen inhabit dozens of various bodies - century after century - male and female? Could her soul be similar or even identical to our souls? Did Humans start the hostilities - or was it the other way around? I'm surprisingly neutral regarding all of this. Check this out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMVKc5aw14g&feature=related The video producer wrote "Out of Africa, where dwells unspeakable evil, came the prehistorical suppression of eve by the hand of the pupetmaster reptilian queen. Using Religion these "wealth makers" were reduced to owned slave units by psychotic male dupes. This took thousands of years of insidious changes to "society". Consider the possibility of a Vengeful Reptilian Queen of Heaven - Ruling Humanity by Secrecy - Via a Controlled Patriarchy, and a Subjugation of Women. Pretty subtle and clever. A wise and deadly serpent? 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAHxyD3KLc 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoTz17GWxjs
I got to thinking about the Queen of England, the Pope of Rome, and the God of This World. They're a pretty exclusive trio - with extreme power - aren't they? They don't get elected by the general public, do they? Should they? I really don't know. I'm really conflicted about this sort of thing. How does a civilization make sure that they have the very best individuals in those roles? I've been trying to combine the best aspects of theocracy and democracy - and the best of the royal and servant models of leadership and authority. The whole damn thing is a slippery-slope. I've had a lot to say regarding a hypothetical Queen of Heaven ruling Earth as the Goddess of This World. I've imagined having conversations and debates with such a being - and I have really mixed-feelings about the whole thing. Extreme intelligence, economy of words, elegance, straight-forwardness, and beauty - might all be on the plus side. But harshness, cruelty, causing atrocities, committing mass-murder, corruption, deception, treachery, moral-ambiguity, and demonic-possession - might be on the negative side. But I don't know the true state of affairs. They might be human. They might be reptilian. They might be hybrid. They might be male. They might be female. They might be hermaphroditic. They might have a wardrobe of bodies. They might be able to shapeshift into any form and anyone they choose. Could a being be a God or Goddess of This World for any length of time - without becoming corrupt and insane? Are the Pope of Rome and the Queen of England - really the modern-day equivalents of the King and Queen of Egypt - serving the Hidden God Amen Ra? Are all three ruling in place of Christ? I have speculated quite a bit about this in the past. I am concerned about this, because these three seem to have control over pretty much the whole world. Is this power legitimate or illegitimate? Is this power being used benevolently and wisely? Are they doing that which is in everyone's best interest? Could the throne of this world have been stolen in antiquity? Could this hypothetical theft be ongoing? Did someone steal fire from the gods? I really and truly don't know - but I am becoming increasingly suspicious. What effect would a Michael/Horus/Jesus administered Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System have on these three? What would Michael/Horus/Jesus say? Somebody please talk to me about this. Please think long and hard about these three jobs. They don't give out job-applications - do they? This is VERY tricky territory - to say the least. I deeply appreciate the Divine Feminine as an integral part of the Divinity Within Humanity - but I am deeply suspicious of a hypothetical Reptilian/Human Hybrid, Hermaphrodite Queen of Heaven / God of This World - being at the core of monotheism - ruling a Controlled Patriarchy - and presiding over a Subjugation of Women - to control and enslave the human race - complete with the 'Chastenings of the Lord' in the form of wars, persecutions, tortures, the Crusades, the Inquisition, terrorist events, etc, etc. Who REALLY controls the Monarchy and the Papacy?
One more time: I keep thinking of reincarnating archangels, in the form of Isis and Horus, or Lucifer and Michael. I keep thinking of Gabriel looking on in disgust and condemnation - ready to end the madness with terrible finality - and not without some justification. I hate to spout off speculation - and not know what I'm talking about - but I really do want to know. I keep thinking that the human race is about to receive a great, big "GAME OVER". I'm watching a very interesting episode of 'Dr. Who' titled 'Frontier in Space' from the mid-70's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85xOQNThwYo&feature=related I keep thinking of the Doctor as being sort of a Michael-figure - and the Madame President as being sort of a Lucifer-figure. I'm not sure exactly why. Reviewing this thread might give some clues as to why I might think this way. I'm really going to try to wind this thing down - and mostly edit this thread - and maybe add some pictures and illustrations. I just started reading 'The Secret Plot to Make Ted Kennedy President' by Geoff Shepard - and 'Taking on the System' by Markos Moulitsas Zuniga. I am continuing reading 'The Jesuits', 'The Keys of This Blood', and 'Windswept House' by Malachi Martin. That ought to keep me out of trouble - for a while. I have kept thinking of Lucifer as being the Mary-figure - secretly running the Roman Catholic Church. Of course, this has been speculation, but when one keeps getting lied-to, what are they supposed to do? On the other hand, Gabriel might be most closely represented by the Madame President in the above-linked 'Dr. Who' episode - and as being the Mary-figure running the church (and not necessarily the pure Mother of Christ). Consider again, this clip from 'V'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAHxyD3KLc I get the picture of Lucifer being a behind the scenes adventurer, wheeler-dealer - who is very smart, smooth, and brave - but who can be very temperamental, sinister, and violent. I see Michael as being very good and refined - but not being BadAss like Gabriel and Lucifer. I continue to see three archangels in conflict with each other. I could be very, very wrong. Every time I post something - I feel torn-up inside - and again, I neglect important things on the home-front - and I pay a very high price for this. Could Gabriel and Lucifer really be two sides of the same coin? We? Might Michael be a prisoner/hostage of Gabriel/Lucifer? Original Hostage Michael? Front Man Michael? Gabriel/Lucifer in place of Michael/Christ - or Anti-Christ? The Roman Catholic Church might've had to deal with more problems than we can possibly imagine. Who Really ordered that Christians (including women and children) be eaten by lions in the Colliseum? Who really ordered the Crusades and Inquistion? Who really ordered the wars and terrorist events of at least the last 2,000 years? Who really ordered the Kennedy Assassinations? Who really ordered 9/11? Might they all have been ordered by the same being or beings? Think about THAT!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTbhHE0jM
Please take a VERY close look at the last couple of posts - and please tell me what you think. What is the relationship between the Archangels, the Queen of England, the Pope of Rome, and Ancient Egypt? Are the right Archangels and Human Beings in power in London and Rome? As usual - I don't know - but I suspect an Ancient Cou De Ta. Did Humanity Get Hijacked? Do we have a hostage crisis? If so - who is the hostage? To those of you who might know - what might we do to rectify the situation? Again, I don't know very much about all of this - which is why I am asking for help in this matter. I'll bet there are some people who know in Salt Lake City, Utah! I'll bet they even know a thing or two about Obama! What is really behind the name 'Original Hostage KRLLL'? 'Omnipotent Highness KRLLL'? Might this imply that an Omnipotent Highness was taken as an Original Hostage by the God of This World? Are We the Ancients? The tone of the ringing in my ears changed when I typed that! It never changes! Nuff said! Here is another interesting looking episode of 'Dr. Who'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdl2hw2Y8Ow&feature=related They're sort of old and corny - but they communicate some very interesting information. I don't think the problems facing us are anything new - and that 'they' were trying to give us clues - a long time ago. We should listen - shouldn't we? Notice the words at the top, right-middle, and bottom of this royal geneology chart. Interesting...
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
orthodoxymoron- Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix
I just realized that my role might be to be both friend and foe to just about everyone. My detachment and questioning might make me appear to be a two-faced, backstabbing SOB - where I'm really friendly one minute - and the next minute I'm asking questions as though it were the Watergate or Iran/Contra Hearings. There's a cancer growing on the human race. Everyone's involved with the Queen of Heaven / God of This World! I am not a potted plant! This is sort of a lonely and thankless road - especially if it is taken to it's logical conclusion. I might be the Best Buddy and the Worst Enemy of Everyone. People like that tend to get crucified - right? Can someone be too good and too honest? We might say 'No' - but down deep, the answer is 'Yes' - isn't it? Be honest..
I am still interested in archangel activity throughout the history of the universe - and especially during the past one million years. I still don't think we are being told the real story of why history has been what it is. I am pretty much disgusted with things. I'm tired of my life being an open-book to every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a badge. I think I may internalize this tempest in a teapot. I really don't wish to beg. I do wish to engage in rational and honest conversation with those who really know what the hell is going on - but I don't see this happening anytime soon - so I am probably best-off not talking about the contents of this thread - anywhere. The less said - the better. Right? Anything I say or post - has, can, and will be used against me in who knows what sort of tribunals? I have been distracted from important things on the home front - and this needs to change. I continue to wish for things to work out well for everyone - everywhere - but I don't seem to be pushy and loud enough to make this happen. It's all about wheeling and dealing - being fast and loud - and throwing your weight around. Right? I think I'm beginning to understand why Jesus wept...
Who are the archangels presently? What have they been doing throughout history? Are they warriors? I thought Michael was associated with Jesus - but most of the Michael images contain swords. But did Jesus say that he had not come to bring peace - but a sword? Are we dealing with battling archangels? Is there a peaceful archangel in the house? I am highly conflicted! Are the archangels presently inhabiting physical bodies? If so, what kind of bodies? How would one recognize an archangel if they saw one? Can an archangel cease to exist? Are one or more archangels facing demotion and/or annihilation presently? Can a fallen archangel be properly reformed and restored? What does 'fallen' really mean? What does 'regressive' really mean? Where art thou, Lucifer? Where art thou, Gabriel? Where are thou, Michael?
I stand by everything I have said on the internet and the telephone. But I realize that, because I don't know the whole story, I might be wrong about 90% of what I have hinted-at, and stated boldly. I continue to at least try to be a reasonable person. Now I'm going to get on with my dull and boring life, in sackcloth and ashes, and try to exercise some personal governance, so as to be more acceptable to the finer and more refined types, at some future point in time. Namaste and Good-Day!
Mercuriel Replied:
At the beginning of this System (Nebadon) the Sovereign placed in charge of It was called Christ Michael - A Creator Son and part of the Descendancy into Matter. He was mated with a Mother Spirit and They took over the Administration of this System as Co-ordinate representations of Prime Creator - In Matter - For Our System.
Now before Christ Michael could be given full Sovereignty over the System of Nebadon - He was required to have Seven Dispensations of Fragmentation so as to come to know through Being - The Lifeforms that He and the Mother Spirit were to nurture in the Ascendancy back to First Source and Center of All Things.
These Dispensations / Fragmentations came in the following Forms...
A Life as an Archangelic > Archangel Michael...
A Life as a Mechizedek > The Melchizedek rumored to have instructed Enoch. These Beings are also the Teachers of the Lanonandeks and the Verondadeks...
A Life as a Morontial (Between Spirit and Matter - 5D & 6D).
A Life as a Mortal - Yeshua Ben Joseph Al Mashayah...
A Life as a Verondadek - A Lifeform in the Descendancy (6D) - Teachers to the Ascended as They move through the Higher Schools or Realms...
A Life as a Lanonandek - Another Lifeform in the Descendancy (6D & 7D). Lucifer and Satan were Two Sons of the Primary Order within this Group of Lifeforms...
And a Life as a Midwayer - Assistant to the Mortal and Nature. This is a Group of Lifeforms that resides between the 4th and 5th Dimensions.
Now once Christ Michael had accomplished all of these Dispensations / Fragmentations / Incarnations - He was then given Vice-Regency and Sovereignty over the System of Nebadon by Prime Creator - Through this Universe's Seventh Master Spirit - The Co-ordinate of Prime Creator as It moves into Matter in this specific Superuniverse...
As Fragmentation is the norm in Co-ordinate Representation - All Beings under Christ Michael are Co-ordinates of Him and the Mother Spirit and conversely - All Creator Sons and Mother Spirits are Co-ordinates of the Seventh Master Spirit - And Hence a Co-odinate Representation of Prime Creator in this particular Superuniverse.
That should get some wheels turning...
BTW just to finish the thought - When Christ Michael Incarnated as Yeshua - Archangel Gabriel was placed in Charge as Proxy until He'd returned from that Dispensation...
Archangel Gabriel is under and directly Co-ordinate to Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit at the next level towards Us. This is why He was placed in Charge as Proxy during that Dispensation - Being First Son of Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit.
For the most part though when Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit are in normal attendance - Gabriel is then Head of the Angelic Host for Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit in this System of Nebadon (Better known as The Milky Way)...
orthodoxymoron replied:
Thank-you Mercuriel. The above information was most interesting. I keep thinking of reincarnating archangels, in the form of Isis and Horus, or Lucifer and Michael. I keep thinking of Gabriel looking on in disgust and condemnation - ready to end the madness with terrible finality - and not without some justification. I hate to spout off speculation - and not know what I'm talking about - but I really do want to know. I keep thinking that the human race is about to receive a great, big "GAME OVER". I'm watching a very interesting episode of 'Dr. Who' titled 'Frontier in Space' from the mid-70's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85xOQNThwYo&feature=related I keep thinking of the Doctor as being sort of a Michael-figure - and the Madame President as being sort of a Lucifer-figure. I'm not sure exactly why. Reviewing this thread might give some clues as to why I might think this way. I'm really going to try to wind this thing down - and mostly edit this thread - and maybe add some pictures and illustrations. I just started reading 'The Secret Plot to Make Ted Kennedy President' by Geoff Shepard - and 'Taking on the System' by Markos Moulitsas Zuniga. I am continuing reading 'The Jesuits', 'The Keys of This Blood', and 'Windswept House' by Malachi Martin. That ought to keep me out of trouble - for a while.
OK - I just read your post Mercuriel - and I'm back in trouble already. I have kept thinking of Lucifer as being the Mary-figure - secretly running the Roman Catholic Church. Of course, this has been speculation, but when one keeps getting lied-to, what are they supposed to do? So, according to what you just said, Gabriel might be most closely represented by the Madame President in the above-linked 'Dr. Who' episode - and as being the Mary-figure running the church (and not necessarily the pure Mother of Christ). Consider again, this clip from 'V'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAHxyD3KLc I get the picture of Lucifer being a behind the scenes adventurer, wheeler-dealer - who is very smart, smooth, and brave - but who can be very temperamental, sinister, and violent. I see Michael as being very good and refined - but not being BadAss like Gabriel and Lucifer. I continue to see three archangels in conflict with each other. I could be very, very wrong. Every time I post something - I feel torn-up inside - and again, I neglect important things on the home-front - and I pay a very high price for this.
Could Gabriel and Lucifer really be two sides of the same coin? We? Might Michael be a prisoner/hostage of Gabriel/Lucifer? Original Hostage Michael? Front Man Michael? Gabriel/Lucifer in place of Michael/Christ - or Anti-Christ? The Roman Catholic Church might've had to deal with more problems than we can possibly imagine. Who Really ordered that Christians (including women and children) be eaten by lions in the Colliseum? Who really ordered the Crusades and Inquistion? Who really ordered the wars and terrorist events of at least the last 2,000 years? Who really ordered the Kennedy Assasinations? Who really ordered 9/11? Might they all have been ordered by the same being or beings? Think about THAT!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTbhHE0jM
One more time:
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z7O7UZxipM
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niFvBJxJEtM&playnext=1&list=PL5E0B20F2092053D7
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3A6_blpqpU
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyKy8_sF4xY
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeGhFrC9o6c
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5ahqWiiUas
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6KNRQSWeKc
8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYTTRoo0ukc&feature=related
9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kch-ZeRrM0&feature=related
10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-iFlfIcyKM
11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-NLQswlYJg&NR=1
12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkK7HXfi9WQ&NR=1
13. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzfeQJQmKvg&feature=related
THE WALL OF SHAME: CHRISTIANITY HONORING JESUS CHRIST? DOES THE FOLLOWING REPRESENT THE WILL AND ORDERS OF GABRIEL/LUCIFER? WHO HAS REALLY BEEN THE HEAD OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH FOR 2,000 YEARS? TIME FOR A CHANGE? WHAT WOULD MICHAEL/HORUS/JESUS SAY?
9.5 Theses:
1. Replace Canon Law with the Teachings of Jesus.
2. Institute a Modified Latin Mass (with no communion - emphasizing the remembrance of Christ and His Teachings - rather than His Sacrifice) - offering Masses seven days a week - with no preference regarding the day or days of attendance.
3. Base All Homilies, Theology, and Ritual Upon the Teachings of Jesus.
4. Eliminate Penance and Confession (replacing both with psychological and spiritual counseling).
5. Allow Women to be Priests and Popes.
6. Allow Priests to Marry and Popes to Marry (and eliminate all blasphemous titles).
7. Eliminate Most Crucifixes (The bloody, dying, and mostly naked Jesus should not be paraded and displayed. Remove most and clothe most of the rest. Obviously, stained-glass windows, and such, should mostly be left alone).
8. Be Completely Honest Regarding the History of the Church, the World, the Solar System, the Galaxy, and the Universe.
9. Institute a Program of Responsible Reproduction (lifting the ban on birth-control).
9.5. Base Civil and Church Governance on the U.S. Constitution.
ORTHODOXYMORON GUIDESTONE:
1. BASE THIS SOLAR SYSTEM UPON RESPONSIBILITY AND THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.
2. MAINTAIN AN EARTH HUMAN POPULATION OF FOUR BILLION (TWO BILLION SURFACE - TWO BILLION SUBSURFACE) AND FOUR BILLION THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE SOLAR SYSTEM (MOSTLY SUBSURFACE).
3. BASE PHYSICAL, MENTAL, AND SPIRITUAL HEALTH UPON PREVENTION.
4. MAINTAIN A PRISTINE ENVIRONMENT.
5. USE ELECTRICAL POWER FOR NEARLY EVERYTHING, AND UTILIZE MAGNETO-LEVITON TRAINS FOR MOST GLOBAL TRANSPORTATION.
Matthew 5: 1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set , his disciples came unto him: 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying , 3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are they that mourn : for they shall be comforted . 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled . 7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy . 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. 10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye , when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely , for my sake . 12 Rejoice , and be exceeding glad : for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. 13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour , wherewith shall it be salted ? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid . 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy , but to fulfil . 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass , one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled . 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill ; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say , Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way ; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery : 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out , and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish , and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off , and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish , and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said , Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery . 33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself , but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool : neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be , Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said , An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law , and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away . 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said , Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye ? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 6: 1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth : 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly . 5 And when thou prayest , thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you , They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest , enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly . 7 But when ye pray , use not vain repetitions , as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come . Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. 16 Moreover when ye fast , be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast . Verily I say unto you , They have their reward. 17 But thou, when thou fastest , anoint thine head, and wash thy face; 18 That thou appear not unto men to fast , but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly . 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt , and where thieves break through and steal : 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt , and where thieves do not break through nor steal : 21 For where your treasure is , there will your heart be also. 22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat , or what ye shall drink ; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on . Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap , nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow ; they toil not, neither do they spin : 29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is , and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Therefore take no thought , saying , What shall we eat ? or, What shall we drink ? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed ? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek :) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 7: 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged . 2 For with what judgment ye judge , ye shall be judged : and with what measure ye mete , it shall be measured to you again . 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold , a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7 Ask , and it shall be given you; seek , and ye shall find ; knock , and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth ; and he that seeketh findeth ; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened . 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat : 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits . Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down , and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them , I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended , and the floods came , and the winds blew , and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended , and the floods came , and the winds blew , and beat upon that house; and it fell : and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass , when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
The church's one foundation 'tis Jesus Christ her Lord! Are the Teachings of Jesus first and foremost in your church? If not, why not? Who's church is it, anyway? Are most, if not all, sermons preached from the words of Christ? If not, why not? Ask the hard questions. Get to the bottom of this thing! The answer seems to be blowing in the wind…judging from all of the hot air you are likely to encounter…
It’s sort of like inviting a living President of the United States to a meeting of “supporters” and then seating him at the rear of the auditorium, and having other people give their speeches praising the name of the President, but without asking the President to be the keynote speaker! The name of Jesus gets praised to highest heaven, but the words of Jesus are often figuratively seated at the back of the church! How rude! Was it something He said?
Is Christianity the Teachings of Jesus believed and lived…or is it a ritualized religion about Jesus…paying little attention to what the Second Person of the Trinity actually said?! I have sometimes gotten the impression that Christians feel that Jesus’ place is on the cross on the wall of the church. But that the important business of doctrine is best left to Moses, Paul and the theologians! Jesus is expected to be seen, but not heard, and certainly not obeyed! In fact, Jesus is supposed to obey US when we pray for something!
Every sermon should be preached from the Teachings of Jesus! But context is important! The Old Testament is contextual, but not normative. Acts to Revelation is likewise contextual, but does not have veto power over the words of Jesus Christ! The Apostle Paul is not the Fourth Person of the Godhead! Sorry Paul!
The following is an exchange between me and a New Testament theologian:
Me: There is a problem here! The Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus Christ take a back seat to Paul! Christianity needs to repent, and resurrect the words of Christ, and make them first and foremost! I have decided to follow Jesus!
Response: Christ should always be given precedence over Paul. However, until Pentecost the full meaning of Christ's sayings could not be perceived. The Holy Spirit confronted Paul and led him into a unique ministry of interpretation and explanation. Because of his training it was given to Paul to explain what the atonement meant. This could not be done until after the atonement was made, i.e., until after Christ died. The primary enquiry of all intelligent souls is, 'How can I be right with my Creator?' It is only Paul who fully spells out the way with its root and its fruit. The great tragedy of even modern evangelicals is that salvation in its historical and objective senses is too often obscured. A closer attention to the writings of Paul could prevent this tragic loss.
Me: Thank-you for your thoughtful answer. But it is a classic example of "the Teachings of Jesus are lacking." I get the picture of someone who is befuddled (Jesus), and needs help with this and that from their attendant (Paul). Did the 2nd person of the Trinity not say everything of importance that needed to be said? Did He need someone to clean up after Him, and set the record straight?
Response: It is the Holy Spirit who decided that the teachings of Christ needed to be supplemented and therefore our NT does not stop at John 21. It doesn't detract from what Jesus said at all. May I recommend you compare what you can find about the meaning of the Cross from the Gospels with what you can find in the later books inspired by the Spirit of Christ.
The following is a different response by another theologian to essentially the same comment:
"Thank-you for your observations. You could have added that in the creeds of the Church, starting with the Apostle’s Creed, the only mention of the historical Jesus is that he died. Zero reference to anything he taught. We need the teaching of the man and not all this rubbish taught about the man. Your suggestion is so simple, so powerful. Do it!"
Well, I tried to do it - but they shut-down my website! http://redletterchurch.net/
Very few of you (only a dozen) have chosen to talk to me about Solar System Governance. I have tried to consider a lot of different possibilities - and I continue to have an open mind. But if no one really seems to be interested in the subject - what conclusions should I draw from this? Do you all really not want freedom? Do you really wish to be aristocratically or theocratically ruled? Do you really want a dictator - benevolent or otherwise - human or otherwise? I really wish to do that which is genuinely in everyone's best interest. But I feel pretty much rejected, at this point. I guess I shouldn't feel bad. The words of Jesus have been rejected for 2,000 years - and continue to be rejected. I certainly hope everyone gets what they want - and that no one is disappointed. Once again, the bottom-line is that I would like for things to work out well for all concerned - if that is at all possible. At this point, I don't really have an enemies list. I even have hope for those who are supposed to be my arch-enemies. I even have hope for myself. I obviously believe in justice - but I do not believe in cruel and unusual punishment. On the other hand, there may be thousands of years of some very negative karmic debt to deal with - some of which might be my own. I don't know what to do. I just want to do the right thing - whatever that is. I might even negotiate with the most dangerous beings, if I knew that I wouldn't be lured into their web, and eaten alive. It seems as though we really need to look into antiquity, to understand what is really going on in this solar system. Atlantis, Babylon, Egypt, Greece, and Rome may have more to do with our modern lives than we think. Take a long, hard look at the City States. This may be the generation who really needs to understand who we really are, and where we have really been - so as to be able to take the most rational next step - even if it is a painful step.
Consider the 94th Psalm. It might be later than we think. Choose wisely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFrKUk5lwmE&feature=related
1 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. 2 Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. 3 LORD, how long shall the wicked, how long shall the wicked triumph ? 4 How long shall they utter and speak hard things? and all the workers of iniquity boast themselves? 5 They break in pieces thy people, O LORD, and afflict thine heritage. 6 They slay the widow and the stranger, and murder the fatherless. 7 Yet they say , The LORD shall not see , neither shall the God of Jacob regard it. 8 Understand , ye brutish among the people: and ye fools, when will ye be wise ? 9 He that planted the ear, shall he not hear ? he that formed the eye, shall he not see ? 10 He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct ? he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know? 11 The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. 12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest , O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law; 13 That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked. 14 For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. 15 But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. 16 Who will rise up for me against the evildoers ? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity? 17 Unless the LORD had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence. 18 When I said , My foot slippeth ; thy mercy, O LORD, held me up . 19 In the multitude of my thoughts within me thy comforts delight my soul. 20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law? 21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood. 22 But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge. 23 And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; yea, the LORD our God shall cut them off.
The more responsible the human race becomes - the less of a top-heavy governmental structure will be required. Responsibility = Freedom. Irresponsibility = Prison. I have made a proposal, in general terms, and those who are highly competent would need to refine it. I am presently fantasizing about a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - centered in the Vatican - believe it, or not! Try reading 'The Four Gospels', 'The Federalist Papers', 'The Anti-Federalist Papers', 'The Keys of This Blood', and 'The Jesuits' - at the same time - while listening to Latin Masses - and attempt an integration. This is more of a monumental effort than you might think. We are really in the middle of a spiritual war. This has been going on for thousands of years - and it seems to be intensifying. I can understand the rational for theocracy - and democracy. Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom seems to be a reasonable middle-ground. This universe might have a more rocky past than we think. Things might be difficult throughout the universe. I don't know. I'm simply trying to envision the most rational next step. Again - I am not shaking my fist at the Creator God of the Universe. I am shaking my fist at the God of This World. "Let My People Go!" I am shaking as I contemplate the fate of the Human Race - and those who have sought to enslave and exterminate the Human Race. The End is Near. The Beginning is Near.
What would the Teachings of Jesus, the U.S. Constitution, and the Modified Latin Mass look like in an Integrated Canon Law Format? You know - the language and style of the traditional church - applied to the content of these three items. Consider the Founding Documents of the United States of the Solar System - with the language and dignity of the Roman Catholic Church. Do you see my point? I guess I'm leaning more toward 'Dignified and Proper, Reverence and Awe, Pomp and Circumstance' - than 'I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy and Jesus is My Buddy'. Again - do you see my point? If the Roman Catholic Church essentially rules the world (overtly and covertly) - rather than simply being a religious and spiritual institution - shouldn't it have a Constitutional Representative Governmental Structure? Should so much power be concentrated in the hands of so few - who mostly deliberate in secret? I'm sort of trying to bring the whole Secret Government out into the open - and then refine it and purify it - with the highest standards of ethics and organization. I don't really know what I'm digging up - but I'm certainly not the only one digging - and I'm mostly observing what others have dug up! Anyway, I will continue to contemplate a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - in the context of the Roman Catholic Church. Don't take this as my final answer. I just think we need to carefully consider the possibility of an integration. The world may be literally turning upside down - and we need to preemptively consider all of the reasonable possibilities - before things get REALLY bad. There is so much REALLY bad history - both secular and sacred - onworld and offworld. The potential for the extermination of the Human Race - as we know it - seems to be a very real and present danger. The major players and major issues continue to remain illusive - to me, anyway - and this REALLY TROUBLES ME. I seem to be facing the end of the world - without knowing the full story. This seems VERY wrong to me. Come - let us REASON together. I am becoming sadder and sadder - each and every day - to the point that life seems much less attractive than it used to be. Can I really handle the truth of our predicament? Can others? So much of this madness seems insanely irrational. The lies and absurditites are different at every level. Are the Harsh and Cruel Off-World Powers That Be preparing to implement a Final Solution against the Rebels Without a Clue on this Prison Planet in Rebellion? I truly desire an organized and ethical Pristine Earth. Do we really have to do the Utter Destruction and Retribution Eschatological Armageddon Routine? What would Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer say?
Despite some of my posts - the following music probably reflects who I really am - better than just about anything else. My mom used to sing this one a lot - and it makes me cry.
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28LIXGF2d1o
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeALTHQQAWo&NR=1
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=328z5QwT--Q&feature=related
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OUfdCBaN8o&feature=related
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGqN1Muu9sw&feature=related
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YQdf9hO8Kk&feature=related
'THE HOLY CITY'
Last night I lay a-sleeping
There came a dream so fair,
I stood in old Jerusalem
Beside the temple there.
I heard the children singing,
And ever as they sang,
Me thought the voice of angels
From heaven in answer rang.
Me thought the voice of angels
From heaven in answer rang.
Jerusalem! Jerusalem!
Lift up your gates and sing,
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna to your King!
And then me thought my dream was changed,
The streets no longer rang,
Hushed were the glad Hosannas
The little children sang.
The sun grew dark with mystery,
The morn was cold and chill,
As the shadow of a cross arose
Upon a lonely hill.
As the shadow of a cross arose
Upon a lonely hill.
Jerusalem! Jerusalem!
Hark! How the angels sing,
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna to your King!
And once again the scene was changed;
New earth there seemed to be;
I saw the Holy City
Beside the tideless sea;
The light of God was on its streets,
The gates were open wide,
And all who would might enter,
And no one was denied.
No need of moon or stars by night,
Or sun to shine by day;
It was the new Jerusalem
That would not pass away.
It was the new Jerusalem
That would not pass away.
Jerusalem! Jerusalem!
Sing for the night is o'er!
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna for evermore!
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna for evermore!
THE HOLY CITY. THE NEW JERUSALEM. DON'T GET ON THAT UFO TOO QUICKLY...
I guess I'll just keep posting myself into oblivion. I think the general line of thinking in this thread will eventually get some traction - but this particular thread may never get any traction. I'm committed to just keep doing what I'm doing. Nothing more. Nothing less. I don't wish to surprise anyone with anything. I don't intend to yell 'FIRE!!' in a crowded theater. This thread is probably sort of a safety-valve for this type of thinking. I think the ideas are sound - but I don't know the historical context of this great big galactic mess. It sort of sounds as though this Male and Female Human Experiment in Responsible Freedom will not be allowed to succeed because of the Orion Group Rebellion and Original Sin - which caused the 600,000 Year War in Heaven. This is merely conjecture - but my dot-connecting is leading me in this direction. What if everyone is wrong? This would cause a monumental crisis in leadership, wouldn't it? This is all about Law, Order, Obedience, Leadership, and Loyalty - right? It's not about whether anyone had a better idea, and was right, after all - is it? The Original Sin invalidates the Entire Experiment - right? It's sort of like 'Off-Sides' in football. I am so torn-up inside, that I can hardly stand it. Ignorance is bliss - and I'm wondering if waking-up the general public is really a good idea - if there is no hope of ever implementing a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System. But hope springs eternal - so I will post again tomorrow. Once again, if I stop posting, it won't be because I chose to do so. I will not terminate myself - no matter what. I think there are those (human and otherwise) who REALLY hate me - even though my thinking doesn't seem to be catching on anywhere. Again - I don't have an enemies list - but I might, when I learn the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
If there really was a 600,000 Year Human v Reptilian War - would it be reasonable to suggest that Male and Female Human Beings were created 600,000 years ago? Might this have been when a third of the Angels fell into physicality and rebellion against the Reptilian God and Universal Church Theocracy? Could Michael and Lucifer have been in league to pull this off? Could Lucifer have then turned against Michael at a later date? Or did Michael turn against Lucifer at a later date? I really don't know. I continue to say that theology is at the center of disclosure. 90% of theology seems to be bs - but this subject needs to be studied relentlessly. I think we need to keep at this - even when we 'lose' our faith. I continue to think that the Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus should be at the center of our Theological Quest. I don't think the Words Attributed to Jesus are flawless - and there are many hard sayings - but the Teachings of Jesus are soundly rooted in the concept of Responsibility - and they radiate profound wisdom and spirituality. Try reading the Four Gospels in the King James Version of the Holy Bible - repeatedly - and notice the benefit you receive from doing so. Look for my posts which contain red print - and read them out-loud, while listening to a Latin Mass. I think this is important. It's not the whole story - but it is a vital piece of the puzzle - and an essential part of the solution. It's no secret that I seek the Reformation and Purification of the Secret Government, the United Nations, the City of London, the United States, and the Vatican - and to bring them into harmony with a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System. This is still a conceptual experiment - and those who are much more competent than I, would have to refine and implement the refined idea. I know my limitations - and I fear my reincarnational karmic debt. I might be ethically, mentally, and spiritually bankrupt. The horror. So - one more time - how should I proceed with the following list?
1. The Teachings of Jesus.
2. The U.S. Constitution.
3. The Latin Mass.
4. The Classical Sacred Music.
5. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System.
Namaste to the People of the World. I Know in Whom I Have Believed. On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand. All Other Ground is Sinking Sand. Namaste to the Beings of the Universe.
I am still interested in archangel activity throughout the history of the universe - and especially during the past one million years. I still don't think we are being told the real story of why history has been what it is. I am pretty much disgusted with things. I'm tired of my life being an open-book to every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a badge. I think I may internalize this tempest in a teapot. I really don't wish to beg. I do wish to engage in rational and honest conversation with those who really know what the hell is going on - but I don't see this happening anytime soon - so I am probably best-off not talking about the contents of this thread - anywhere. The less said - the better. Right? Anything I say or post - has, can, and will be used against me in who knows what sort of tribunals? I have been distracted from important things on the home front - and this needs to change. I continue to wish for things to work out well for everyone - everywhere - but I don't seem to be pushy and loud enough to make this happen. It's all about wheeling and dealing - being fast and loud - and throwing your weight around. Right? I think I'm beginning to understand why Jesus wept...
Who are the archangels presently? What have they been doing throughout history? Are they warriors? I thought Michael was associated with Jesus - but most of the Michael images contain swords. But did Jesus say that he had not come to bring peace - but a sword? Are we dealing with battling archangels? Is there a peaceful archangel in the house? I am highly conflicted! Are the archangels presently inhabiting physical bodies? If so, what kind of bodies? How would one recognize an archangel if they saw one? Can an archangel cease to exist? Are one or more archangels facing demotion and/or annihilation presently? Can a fallen archangel be properly reformed and restored? What does 'fallen' really mean? What does 'regressive' really mean? Where art thou, Lucifer? Where art thou, Gabriel? Where are thou, Michael?
I stand by everything I have said on the internet and the telephone. But I realize that, because I don't know the whole story, I might be wrong about 90% of what I have hinted-at, and stated boldly. I continue to at least try to be a reasonable person. Now I'm going to get on with my dull and boring life, in sackcloth and ashes, and try to exercise some personal governance, so as to be more acceptable to the finer and more refined types, at some future point in time. Namaste and Good-Day!
Mercuriel Replied:
At the beginning of this System (Nebadon) the Sovereign placed in charge of It was called Christ Michael - A Creator Son and part of the Descendancy into Matter. He was mated with a Mother Spirit and They took over the Administration of this System as Co-ordinate representations of Prime Creator - In Matter - For Our System.
Now before Christ Michael could be given full Sovereignty over the System of Nebadon - He was required to have Seven Dispensations of Fragmentation so as to come to know through Being - The Lifeforms that He and the Mother Spirit were to nurture in the Ascendancy back to First Source and Center of All Things.
These Dispensations / Fragmentations came in the following Forms...
A Life as an Archangelic > Archangel Michael...
A Life as a Mechizedek > The Melchizedek rumored to have instructed Enoch. These Beings are also the Teachers of the Lanonandeks and the Verondadeks...
A Life as a Morontial (Between Spirit and Matter - 5D & 6D).
A Life as a Mortal - Yeshua Ben Joseph Al Mashayah...
A Life as a Verondadek - A Lifeform in the Descendancy (6D) - Teachers to the Ascended as They move through the Higher Schools or Realms...
A Life as a Lanonandek - Another Lifeform in the Descendancy (6D & 7D). Lucifer and Satan were Two Sons of the Primary Order within this Group of Lifeforms...
And a Life as a Midwayer - Assistant to the Mortal and Nature. This is a Group of Lifeforms that resides between the 4th and 5th Dimensions.
Now once Christ Michael had accomplished all of these Dispensations / Fragmentations / Incarnations - He was then given Vice-Regency and Sovereignty over the System of Nebadon by Prime Creator - Through this Universe's Seventh Master Spirit - The Co-ordinate of Prime Creator as It moves into Matter in this specific Superuniverse...
As Fragmentation is the norm in Co-ordinate Representation - All Beings under Christ Michael are Co-ordinates of Him and the Mother Spirit and conversely - All Creator Sons and Mother Spirits are Co-ordinates of the Seventh Master Spirit - And Hence a Co-odinate Representation of Prime Creator in this particular Superuniverse.
That should get some wheels turning...
BTW just to finish the thought - When Christ Michael Incarnated as Yeshua - Archangel Gabriel was placed in Charge as Proxy until He'd returned from that Dispensation...
Archangel Gabriel is under and directly Co-ordinate to Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit at the next level towards Us. This is why He was placed in Charge as Proxy during that Dispensation - Being First Son of Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit.
For the most part though when Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit are in normal attendance - Gabriel is then Head of the Angelic Host for Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit in this System of Nebadon (Better known as The Milky Way)...
orthodoxymoron replied:
Thank-you Mercuriel. The above information was most interesting. I keep thinking of reincarnating archangels, in the form of Isis and Horus, or Lucifer and Michael. I keep thinking of Gabriel looking on in disgust and condemnation - ready to end the madness with terrible finality - and not without some justification. I hate to spout off speculation - and not know what I'm talking about - but I really do want to know. I keep thinking that the human race is about to receive a great, big "GAME OVER". I'm watching a very interesting episode of 'Dr. Who' titled 'Frontier in Space' from the mid-70's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85xOQNThwYo&feature=related I keep thinking of the Doctor as being sort of a Michael-figure - and the Madame President as being sort of a Lucifer-figure. I'm not sure exactly why. Reviewing this thread might give some clues as to why I might think this way. I'm really going to try to wind this thing down - and mostly edit this thread - and maybe add some pictures and illustrations. I just started reading 'The Secret Plot to Make Ted Kennedy President' by Geoff Shepard - and 'Taking on the System' by Markos Moulitsas Zuniga. I am continuing reading 'The Jesuits', 'The Keys of This Blood', and 'Windswept House' by Malachi Martin. That ought to keep me out of trouble - for a while.
OK - I just read your post Mercuriel - and I'm back in trouble already. I have kept thinking of Lucifer as being the Mary-figure - secretly running the Roman Catholic Church. Of course, this has been speculation, but when one keeps getting lied-to, what are they supposed to do? So, according to what you just said, Gabriel might be most closely represented by the Madame President in the above-linked 'Dr. Who' episode - and as being the Mary-figure running the church (and not necessarily the pure Mother of Christ). Consider again, this clip from 'V'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAHxyD3KLc I get the picture of Lucifer being a behind the scenes adventurer, wheeler-dealer - who is very smart, smooth, and brave - but who can be very temperamental, sinister, and violent. I see Michael as being very good and refined - but not being BadAss like Gabriel and Lucifer. I continue to see three archangels in conflict with each other. I could be very, very wrong. Every time I post something - I feel torn-up inside - and again, I neglect important things on the home-front - and I pay a very high price for this.
Could Gabriel and Lucifer really be two sides of the same coin? We? Might Michael be a prisoner/hostage of Gabriel/Lucifer? Original Hostage Michael? Front Man Michael? Gabriel/Lucifer in place of Michael/Christ - or Anti-Christ? The Roman Catholic Church might've had to deal with more problems than we can possibly imagine. Who Really ordered that Christians (including women and children) be eaten by lions in the Colliseum? Who really ordered the Crusades and Inquistion? Who really ordered the wars and terrorist events of at least the last 2,000 years? Who really ordered the Kennedy Assasinations? Who really ordered 9/11? Might they all have been ordered by the same being or beings? Think about THAT!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTbhHE0jM
One more time:
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z7O7UZxipM
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niFvBJxJEtM&playnext=1&list=PL5E0B20F2092053D7
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3A6_blpqpU
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyKy8_sF4xY
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeGhFrC9o6c
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5ahqWiiUas
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6KNRQSWeKc
8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYTTRoo0ukc&feature=related
9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kch-ZeRrM0&feature=related
10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-iFlfIcyKM
11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-NLQswlYJg&NR=1
12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkK7HXfi9WQ&NR=1
13. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzfeQJQmKvg&feature=related
THE WALL OF SHAME: CHRISTIANITY HONORING JESUS CHRIST? DOES THE FOLLOWING REPRESENT THE WILL AND ORDERS OF GABRIEL/LUCIFER? WHO HAS REALLY BEEN THE HEAD OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH FOR 2,000 YEARS? TIME FOR A CHANGE? WHAT WOULD MICHAEL/HORUS/JESUS SAY?
9.5 Theses:
1. Replace Canon Law with the Teachings of Jesus.
2. Institute a Modified Latin Mass (with no communion - emphasizing the remembrance of Christ and His Teachings - rather than His Sacrifice) - offering Masses seven days a week - with no preference regarding the day or days of attendance.
3. Base All Homilies, Theology, and Ritual Upon the Teachings of Jesus.
4. Eliminate Penance and Confession (replacing both with psychological and spiritual counseling).
5. Allow Women to be Priests and Popes.
6. Allow Priests to Marry and Popes to Marry (and eliminate all blasphemous titles).
7. Eliminate Most Crucifixes (The bloody, dying, and mostly naked Jesus should not be paraded and displayed. Remove most and clothe most of the rest. Obviously, stained-glass windows, and such, should mostly be left alone).
8. Be Completely Honest Regarding the History of the Church, the World, the Solar System, the Galaxy, and the Universe.
9. Institute a Program of Responsible Reproduction (lifting the ban on birth-control).
9.5. Base Civil and Church Governance on the U.S. Constitution.
ORTHODOXYMORON GUIDESTONE:
1. BASE THIS SOLAR SYSTEM UPON RESPONSIBILITY AND THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.
2. MAINTAIN AN EARTH HUMAN POPULATION OF FOUR BILLION (TWO BILLION SURFACE - TWO BILLION SUBSURFACE) AND FOUR BILLION THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE SOLAR SYSTEM (MOSTLY SUBSURFACE).
3. BASE PHYSICAL, MENTAL, AND SPIRITUAL HEALTH UPON PREVENTION.
4. MAINTAIN A PRISTINE ENVIRONMENT.
5. USE ELECTRICAL POWER FOR NEARLY EVERYTHING, AND UTILIZE MAGNETO-LEVITON TRAINS FOR MOST GLOBAL TRANSPORTATION.
Matthew 5: 1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set , his disciples came unto him: 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying , 3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are they that mourn : for they shall be comforted . 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled . 7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy . 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. 10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye , when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely , for my sake . 12 Rejoice , and be exceeding glad : for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. 13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour , wherewith shall it be salted ? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid . 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy , but to fulfil . 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass , one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled . 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill ; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say , Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way ; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery : 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out , and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish , and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off , and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish , and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said , Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery . 33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself , but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool : neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be , Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said , An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law , and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away . 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said , Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye ? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 6: 1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth : 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly . 5 And when thou prayest , thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you , They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest , enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly . 7 But when ye pray , use not vain repetitions , as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come . Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. 16 Moreover when ye fast , be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast . Verily I say unto you , They have their reward. 17 But thou, when thou fastest , anoint thine head, and wash thy face; 18 That thou appear not unto men to fast , but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly . 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt , and where thieves break through and steal : 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt , and where thieves do not break through nor steal : 21 For where your treasure is , there will your heart be also. 22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat , or what ye shall drink ; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on . Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap , nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow ; they toil not, neither do they spin : 29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is , and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Therefore take no thought , saying , What shall we eat ? or, What shall we drink ? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed ? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek :) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 7: 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged . 2 For with what judgment ye judge , ye shall be judged : and with what measure ye mete , it shall be measured to you again . 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold , a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7 Ask , and it shall be given you; seek , and ye shall find ; knock , and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth ; and he that seeketh findeth ; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened . 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat : 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits . Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down , and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them , I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended , and the floods came , and the winds blew , and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended , and the floods came , and the winds blew , and beat upon that house; and it fell : and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass , when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
The church's one foundation 'tis Jesus Christ her Lord! Are the Teachings of Jesus first and foremost in your church? If not, why not? Who's church is it, anyway? Are most, if not all, sermons preached from the words of Christ? If not, why not? Ask the hard questions. Get to the bottom of this thing! The answer seems to be blowing in the wind…judging from all of the hot air you are likely to encounter…
It’s sort of like inviting a living President of the United States to a meeting of “supporters” and then seating him at the rear of the auditorium, and having other people give their speeches praising the name of the President, but without asking the President to be the keynote speaker! The name of Jesus gets praised to highest heaven, but the words of Jesus are often figuratively seated at the back of the church! How rude! Was it something He said?
Is Christianity the Teachings of Jesus believed and lived…or is it a ritualized religion about Jesus…paying little attention to what the Second Person of the Trinity actually said?! I have sometimes gotten the impression that Christians feel that Jesus’ place is on the cross on the wall of the church. But that the important business of doctrine is best left to Moses, Paul and the theologians! Jesus is expected to be seen, but not heard, and certainly not obeyed! In fact, Jesus is supposed to obey US when we pray for something!
Every sermon should be preached from the Teachings of Jesus! But context is important! The Old Testament is contextual, but not normative. Acts to Revelation is likewise contextual, but does not have veto power over the words of Jesus Christ! The Apostle Paul is not the Fourth Person of the Godhead! Sorry Paul!
The following is an exchange between me and a New Testament theologian:
Me: There is a problem here! The Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus Christ take a back seat to Paul! Christianity needs to repent, and resurrect the words of Christ, and make them first and foremost! I have decided to follow Jesus!
Response: Christ should always be given precedence over Paul. However, until Pentecost the full meaning of Christ's sayings could not be perceived. The Holy Spirit confronted Paul and led him into a unique ministry of interpretation and explanation. Because of his training it was given to Paul to explain what the atonement meant. This could not be done until after the atonement was made, i.e., until after Christ died. The primary enquiry of all intelligent souls is, 'How can I be right with my Creator?' It is only Paul who fully spells out the way with its root and its fruit. The great tragedy of even modern evangelicals is that salvation in its historical and objective senses is too often obscured. A closer attention to the writings of Paul could prevent this tragic loss.
Me: Thank-you for your thoughtful answer. But it is a classic example of "the Teachings of Jesus are lacking." I get the picture of someone who is befuddled (Jesus), and needs help with this and that from their attendant (Paul). Did the 2nd person of the Trinity not say everything of importance that needed to be said? Did He need someone to clean up after Him, and set the record straight?
Response: It is the Holy Spirit who decided that the teachings of Christ needed to be supplemented and therefore our NT does not stop at John 21. It doesn't detract from what Jesus said at all. May I recommend you compare what you can find about the meaning of the Cross from the Gospels with what you can find in the later books inspired by the Spirit of Christ.
The following is a different response by another theologian to essentially the same comment:
"Thank-you for your observations. You could have added that in the creeds of the Church, starting with the Apostle’s Creed, the only mention of the historical Jesus is that he died. Zero reference to anything he taught. We need the teaching of the man and not all this rubbish taught about the man. Your suggestion is so simple, so powerful. Do it!"
Well, I tried to do it - but they shut-down my website! http://redletterchurch.net/
Very few of you (only a dozen) have chosen to talk to me about Solar System Governance. I have tried to consider a lot of different possibilities - and I continue to have an open mind. But if no one really seems to be interested in the subject - what conclusions should I draw from this? Do you all really not want freedom? Do you really wish to be aristocratically or theocratically ruled? Do you really want a dictator - benevolent or otherwise - human or otherwise? I really wish to do that which is genuinely in everyone's best interest. But I feel pretty much rejected, at this point. I guess I shouldn't feel bad. The words of Jesus have been rejected for 2,000 years - and continue to be rejected. I certainly hope everyone gets what they want - and that no one is disappointed. Once again, the bottom-line is that I would like for things to work out well for all concerned - if that is at all possible. At this point, I don't really have an enemies list. I even have hope for those who are supposed to be my arch-enemies. I even have hope for myself. I obviously believe in justice - but I do not believe in cruel and unusual punishment. On the other hand, there may be thousands of years of some very negative karmic debt to deal with - some of which might be my own. I don't know what to do. I just want to do the right thing - whatever that is. I might even negotiate with the most dangerous beings, if I knew that I wouldn't be lured into their web, and eaten alive. It seems as though we really need to look into antiquity, to understand what is really going on in this solar system. Atlantis, Babylon, Egypt, Greece, and Rome may have more to do with our modern lives than we think. Take a long, hard look at the City States. This may be the generation who really needs to understand who we really are, and where we have really been - so as to be able to take the most rational next step - even if it is a painful step.
Consider the 94th Psalm. It might be later than we think. Choose wisely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFrKUk5lwmE&feature=related
1 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. 2 Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. 3 LORD, how long shall the wicked, how long shall the wicked triumph ? 4 How long shall they utter and speak hard things? and all the workers of iniquity boast themselves? 5 They break in pieces thy people, O LORD, and afflict thine heritage. 6 They slay the widow and the stranger, and murder the fatherless. 7 Yet they say , The LORD shall not see , neither shall the God of Jacob regard it. 8 Understand , ye brutish among the people: and ye fools, when will ye be wise ? 9 He that planted the ear, shall he not hear ? he that formed the eye, shall he not see ? 10 He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct ? he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know? 11 The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. 12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest , O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law; 13 That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked. 14 For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. 15 But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. 16 Who will rise up for me against the evildoers ? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity? 17 Unless the LORD had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence. 18 When I said , My foot slippeth ; thy mercy, O LORD, held me up . 19 In the multitude of my thoughts within me thy comforts delight my soul. 20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law? 21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood. 22 But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge. 23 And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; yea, the LORD our God shall cut them off.
The more responsible the human race becomes - the less of a top-heavy governmental structure will be required. Responsibility = Freedom. Irresponsibility = Prison. I have made a proposal, in general terms, and those who are highly competent would need to refine it. I am presently fantasizing about a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - centered in the Vatican - believe it, or not! Try reading 'The Four Gospels', 'The Federalist Papers', 'The Anti-Federalist Papers', 'The Keys of This Blood', and 'The Jesuits' - at the same time - while listening to Latin Masses - and attempt an integration. This is more of a monumental effort than you might think. We are really in the middle of a spiritual war. This has been going on for thousands of years - and it seems to be intensifying. I can understand the rational for theocracy - and democracy. Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom seems to be a reasonable middle-ground. This universe might have a more rocky past than we think. Things might be difficult throughout the universe. I don't know. I'm simply trying to envision the most rational next step. Again - I am not shaking my fist at the Creator God of the Universe. I am shaking my fist at the God of This World. "Let My People Go!" I am shaking as I contemplate the fate of the Human Race - and those who have sought to enslave and exterminate the Human Race. The End is Near. The Beginning is Near.
What would the Teachings of Jesus, the U.S. Constitution, and the Modified Latin Mass look like in an Integrated Canon Law Format? You know - the language and style of the traditional church - applied to the content of these three items. Consider the Founding Documents of the United States of the Solar System - with the language and dignity of the Roman Catholic Church. Do you see my point? I guess I'm leaning more toward 'Dignified and Proper, Reverence and Awe, Pomp and Circumstance' - than 'I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy and Jesus is My Buddy'. Again - do you see my point? If the Roman Catholic Church essentially rules the world (overtly and covertly) - rather than simply being a religious and spiritual institution - shouldn't it have a Constitutional Representative Governmental Structure? Should so much power be concentrated in the hands of so few - who mostly deliberate in secret? I'm sort of trying to bring the whole Secret Government out into the open - and then refine it and purify it - with the highest standards of ethics and organization. I don't really know what I'm digging up - but I'm certainly not the only one digging - and I'm mostly observing what others have dug up! Anyway, I will continue to contemplate a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - in the context of the Roman Catholic Church. Don't take this as my final answer. I just think we need to carefully consider the possibility of an integration. The world may be literally turning upside down - and we need to preemptively consider all of the reasonable possibilities - before things get REALLY bad. There is so much REALLY bad history - both secular and sacred - onworld and offworld. The potential for the extermination of the Human Race - as we know it - seems to be a very real and present danger. The major players and major issues continue to remain illusive - to me, anyway - and this REALLY TROUBLES ME. I seem to be facing the end of the world - without knowing the full story. This seems VERY wrong to me. Come - let us REASON together. I am becoming sadder and sadder - each and every day - to the point that life seems much less attractive than it used to be. Can I really handle the truth of our predicament? Can others? So much of this madness seems insanely irrational. The lies and absurditites are different at every level. Are the Harsh and Cruel Off-World Powers That Be preparing to implement a Final Solution against the Rebels Without a Clue on this Prison Planet in Rebellion? I truly desire an organized and ethical Pristine Earth. Do we really have to do the Utter Destruction and Retribution Eschatological Armageddon Routine? What would Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer say?
Despite some of my posts - the following music probably reflects who I really am - better than just about anything else. My mom used to sing this one a lot - and it makes me cry.
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28LIXGF2d1o
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeALTHQQAWo&NR=1
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=328z5QwT--Q&feature=related
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OUfdCBaN8o&feature=related
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGqN1Muu9sw&feature=related
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YQdf9hO8Kk&feature=related
'THE HOLY CITY'
Last night I lay a-sleeping
There came a dream so fair,
I stood in old Jerusalem
Beside the temple there.
I heard the children singing,
And ever as they sang,
Me thought the voice of angels
From heaven in answer rang.
Me thought the voice of angels
From heaven in answer rang.
Jerusalem! Jerusalem!
Lift up your gates and sing,
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna to your King!
And then me thought my dream was changed,
The streets no longer rang,
Hushed were the glad Hosannas
The little children sang.
The sun grew dark with mystery,
The morn was cold and chill,
As the shadow of a cross arose
Upon a lonely hill.
As the shadow of a cross arose
Upon a lonely hill.
Jerusalem! Jerusalem!
Hark! How the angels sing,
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna to your King!
And once again the scene was changed;
New earth there seemed to be;
I saw the Holy City
Beside the tideless sea;
The light of God was on its streets,
The gates were open wide,
And all who would might enter,
And no one was denied.
No need of moon or stars by night,
Or sun to shine by day;
It was the new Jerusalem
That would not pass away.
It was the new Jerusalem
That would not pass away.
Jerusalem! Jerusalem!
Sing for the night is o'er!
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna for evermore!
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna for evermore!
THE HOLY CITY. THE NEW JERUSALEM. DON'T GET ON THAT UFO TOO QUICKLY...
I guess I'll just keep posting myself into oblivion. I think the general line of thinking in this thread will eventually get some traction - but this particular thread may never get any traction. I'm committed to just keep doing what I'm doing. Nothing more. Nothing less. I don't wish to surprise anyone with anything. I don't intend to yell 'FIRE!!' in a crowded theater. This thread is probably sort of a safety-valve for this type of thinking. I think the ideas are sound - but I don't know the historical context of this great big galactic mess. It sort of sounds as though this Male and Female Human Experiment in Responsible Freedom will not be allowed to succeed because of the Orion Group Rebellion and Original Sin - which caused the 600,000 Year War in Heaven. This is merely conjecture - but my dot-connecting is leading me in this direction. What if everyone is wrong? This would cause a monumental crisis in leadership, wouldn't it? This is all about Law, Order, Obedience, Leadership, and Loyalty - right? It's not about whether anyone had a better idea, and was right, after all - is it? The Original Sin invalidates the Entire Experiment - right? It's sort of like 'Off-Sides' in football. I am so torn-up inside, that I can hardly stand it. Ignorance is bliss - and I'm wondering if waking-up the general public is really a good idea - if there is no hope of ever implementing a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System. But hope springs eternal - so I will post again tomorrow. Once again, if I stop posting, it won't be because I chose to do so. I will not terminate myself - no matter what. I think there are those (human and otherwise) who REALLY hate me - even though my thinking doesn't seem to be catching on anywhere. Again - I don't have an enemies list - but I might, when I learn the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
If there really was a 600,000 Year Human v Reptilian War - would it be reasonable to suggest that Male and Female Human Beings were created 600,000 years ago? Might this have been when a third of the Angels fell into physicality and rebellion against the Reptilian God and Universal Church Theocracy? Could Michael and Lucifer have been in league to pull this off? Could Lucifer have then turned against Michael at a later date? Or did Michael turn against Lucifer at a later date? I really don't know. I continue to say that theology is at the center of disclosure. 90% of theology seems to be bs - but this subject needs to be studied relentlessly. I think we need to keep at this - even when we 'lose' our faith. I continue to think that the Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus should be at the center of our Theological Quest. I don't think the Words Attributed to Jesus are flawless - and there are many hard sayings - but the Teachings of Jesus are soundly rooted in the concept of Responsibility - and they radiate profound wisdom and spirituality. Try reading the Four Gospels in the King James Version of the Holy Bible - repeatedly - and notice the benefit you receive from doing so. Look for my posts which contain red print - and read them out-loud, while listening to a Latin Mass. I think this is important. It's not the whole story - but it is a vital piece of the puzzle - and an essential part of the solution. It's no secret that I seek the Reformation and Purification of the Secret Government, the United Nations, the City of London, the United States, and the Vatican - and to bring them into harmony with a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System. This is still a conceptual experiment - and those who are much more competent than I, would have to refine and implement the refined idea. I know my limitations - and I fear my reincarnational karmic debt. I might be ethically, mentally, and spiritually bankrupt. The horror. So - one more time - how should I proceed with the following list?
1. The Teachings of Jesus.
2. The U.S. Constitution.
3. The Latin Mass.
4. The Classical Sacred Music.
5. A Vatican-Based Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System.
Namaste to the People of the World. I Know in Whom I Have Believed. On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand. All Other Ground is Sinking Sand. Namaste to the Beings of the Universe.
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» Sovereignty of God -- Absolute Obedience -- Human Sovereignty -- Responsible Freedom
» Archangelic Queens of Heaven and the United States of the Solar System
» The Solar System is a Big Business -- Appearances are Everything -- the Lies are Different at Every Level -- and the Bottom-Line is the Bottom-Line.
» United States AI Solar System (13)
» Sovereignty of God -- Absolute Obedience -- Human Sovereignty -- Responsible Freedom
» Archangelic Queens of Heaven and the United States of the Solar System
» The Solar System is a Big Business -- Appearances are Everything -- the Lies are Different at Every Level -- and the Bottom-Line is the Bottom-Line.