orthodoxymoron previously stated:
I am still interested in archangel activity throughout the history of the universe - and especially during the past one million years. I still don't think we are being told the real story of why history has been what it is. I am pretty much disgusted with things. I'm tired of my life being an open-book to every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a badge. I think I may internalize this tempest in a teapot. I really don't wish to beg. I do wish to engage in rational and honest conversation with those who really know what the hell is going on - but I don't see this happening anytime soon - so I am probably best-off not talking about the contents of this thread - anywhere. The less said - the better. Right? Anything I say or post - has, can, and will be used against me in who knows what sort of tribunals? I have been distracted from important things on the home front - and this needs to change. I continue to wish for things to work out well for everyone - everywhere - but I don't seem to be pushy and loud enough to make this happen. It's all about wheeling and dealing - being fast and loud - and throwing your weight around. Right? I think I'm beginning to understand why Jesus wept...
Who are the archangels presently? What have they been doing throughout history? Are they warriors? I thought Michael was associated with Jesus - but most of the Michael images contain swords. But did Jesus say that he had not come to bring peace - but a sword? Are we dealing with battling archangels? Is there a peaceful archangel in the house? I am highly conflicted! Are the archangels presently inhabiting physical bodies? If so, what kind of bodies? How would one recognize an archangel if they saw one? Can an archangel cease to exist? Are one or more archangels facing demotion and/or annihilation presently? Can a fallen archangel be properly reformed and restored? What does 'fallen' really mean? What does 'regressive' really mean? Where art thou, Lucifer? Where art thou, Gabriel? Where are thou, Michael?
I stand by everything I have said on the internet and the telephone. But I realize that, because I don't know the whole story, I might be wrong about 90% of what I have hinted-at, and stated boldly. I continue to at least try to be a reasonable person. Now I'm going to get on with my dull and boring life, in sackcloth and ashes, and try to exercise some personal governance, so as to be more acceptable to the finer and more refined types, at some future point in time. Namaste and Good-Day!
Mercuriel Replied:
At the beginning of this System (Nebadon) the Sovereign placed in charge of It was called Christ Michael - A Creator Son and part of the Descendancy into Matter. He was mated with a Mother Spirit and They took over the Administration of this System as Co-ordinate representations of Prime Creator - In Matter - For Our System.
Now before Christ Michael could be given full Sovereignty over the System of Nebadon - He was required to have Seven Dispensations of Fragmentation so as to come to know through Being - The Lifeforms that He and the Mother Spirit were to nurture in the Ascendancy back to First Source and Center of All Things.
These Dispensations / Fragmentations came in the following Forms...
A Life as an Archangelic > Archangel Michael...
A Life as a Mechizedek > The Melchizedek rumored to have instructed Enoch. These Beings are also the Teachers of the Lanonandeks and the Verondadeks...
A Life as a Morontial (Between Spirit and Matter - 5D & 6D).
A Life as a Mortal - Yeshua Ben Joseph Al Mashayah...
A Life as a Verondadek - A Lifeform in the Descendancy (6D) - Teachers to the Ascended as They move through the Higher Schools or Realms...
A Life as a Lanonandek - Another Lifeform in the Descendancy (6D & 7D). Lucifer and Satan were Two Sons of the Primary Order within this Group of Lifeforms...
And a Life as a Midwayer - Assistant to the Mortal and Nature. This is a Group of Lifeforms that resides between the 4th and 5th Dimensions.
Now once Christ Michael had accomplished all of these Dispensations / Fragmentations / Incarnations - He was then given Vice-Regency and Sovereignty over the System of Nebadon by Prime Creator - Through this Universe's Seventh Master Spirit - The Co-ordinate of Prime Creator as It moves into Matter in this specific Superuniverse...
As Fragmentation is the norm in Co-ordinate Representation - All Beings under Christ Michael are Co-ordinates of Him and the Mother Spirit and conversely - All Creator Sons and Mother Spirits are Co-ordinates of the Seventh Master Spirit - And Hence a Co-odinate Representation of Prime Creator in this particular Superuniverse.
That should get some wheels turning...
BTW just to finish the thought - When Christ Michael Incarnated as Yeshua - Archangel Gabriel was placed in Charge as Proxy until He'd returned from that Dispensation...
Archangel Gabriel is under and directly Co-ordinate to Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit at the next level towards Us. This is why He was placed in Charge as Proxy during that Dispensation - Being First Son of Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit.
For the most part though when Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit are in normal attendance - Gabriel is then Head of the Angelic Host for Christ Michael and the Mother Spirit in this System of Nebadon (Better known as The Milky Way)...
orthodoxymoron replied:
Thank-you Mercuriel. The above information was most interesting. I keep thinking of reincarnating archangels, in the form of Isis and Horus, or Lucifer and Michael. I keep thinking of Gabriel looking on in disgust and condemnation - ready to end the madness with terrible finality - and not without some justification. I hate to spout off speculation - and not know what I'm talking about - but I really do want to know. I keep thinking that the human race is about to receive a great, big "GAME OVER". I'm watching a very interesting episode of 'Dr. Who' titled 'Frontier in Space' from the mid-70's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85xOQNThwYo&feature=related I keep thinking of the Doctor as being sort of a Michael-figure - and the Madame President as being sort of a Lucifer-figure. I'm not sure exactly why. Reviewing this thread might give some clues as to why I might think this way. I'm really going to try to wind this thing down - and mostly edit this thread - and maybe add some pictures and illustrations. I just started reading 'The Secret Plot to Make Ted Kennedy President' by Geoff Shepard - and 'Taking on the System' by Markos Moulitsas Zuniga. I am continuing reading 'The Jesuits', 'The Keys of This Blood', and 'Windswept House' by Malachi Martin. That ought to keep me out of trouble - for a while.
OK - I just read your post Mercuriel - and I'm back in trouble already. I have kept thinking of Lucifer as being the Mary-figure - secretly running the Roman Catholic Church. Of course, this has been speculation, but when one keeps getting lied-to, what are they supposed to do? So, according to what you just said, Gabriel might be most closely represented by the Madame President in the above-linked 'Dr. Who' episode - and as being the Mary-figure running the church (and not necessarily the pure Mother of Christ). Consider again, this clip from 'V'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAHxyD3KLc I get the picture of Lucifer being a behind the scenes adventurer, wheeler-dealer - who is very smart, smooth, and brave - but who can be very temperamental, sinister, and violent. I see Michael as being very good and refined - but not being BadAss like Gabriel and Lucifer. I continue to see three archangels in conflict with each other. I could be very, very wrong. Every time I post something - I feel torn-up inside - and again, I neglect important things on the home-front - and I pay a very high price for this.
Could Gabriel and Lucifer really be two sides of the same coin? We? Might Michael be a prisoner/hostage of Gabriel/Lucifer? Original Hostage Michael? Front Man Michael? Gabriel/Lucifer in place of Michael/Christ - or Anti-Christ? The Roman Catholic Church might've had to deal with more problems than we can possibly imagine. Who Really ordered that Christians (including women and children) be eaten by lions in the Colliseum? Who really ordered the Crusades and Inquistion? Who really ordered the wars and terrorist events of at least the last 2,000 years? Who really ordered the Kennedy Assasinations? Who really ordered 9/11? Might they all have been ordered by the same being or beings? Think about THAT!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTbhHE0jMOne more time:
1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z7O7UZxipM2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niFvBJxJEtM&playnext=1&list=PL5E0B20F2092053D73.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3A6_blpqpU4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyKy8_sF4xY5.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeGhFrC9o6c6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5ahqWiiUas7.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6KNRQSWeKc8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYTTRoo0ukc&feature=related9.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kch-ZeRrM0&feature=related10.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-iFlfIcyKM11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-NLQswlYJg&NR=112.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkK7HXfi9WQ&NR=113.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzfeQJQmKvg&feature=related
THE WALL OF SHAME: CHRISTIANITY HONORING JESUS CHRIST? DOES THE FOLLOWING REPRESENT THE WILL AND ORDERS OF GABRIEL/LUCIFER? WHO HAS REALLY BEEN THE HEAD OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH FOR 2,000 YEARS? TIME FOR A CHANGE? WHAT WOULD MICHAEL/HORUS/JESUS SAY? 
9.5 Theses:
1. Replace Canon Law with the Teachings of Jesus.
2. Institute a Modified Latin Mass (with no communion - emphasizing the remembrance of Christ and His Teachings - rather than His Sacrifice) - offering Masses seven days a week - with no preference regarding the day or days of attendance.
3. Base All Homilies, Theology, and Ritual Upon the Teachings of Jesus.
4. Eliminate Penance and Confession (replacing both with psychological and spiritual counseling).
5. Allow Women to be Priests and Popes.
6. Allow Priests to Marry and Popes to Marry (and eliminate all blasphemous titles).
7. Eliminate Most Crucifixes (The bloody, dying, and mostly naked Jesus should not be paraded and displayed. Remove most and clothe most of the rest. Obviously, stained-glass windows, and such, should mostly be left alone).
8. Be Completely Honest Regarding the History of the Church, the World, the Solar System, the Galaxy, and the Universe.
9. Institute a Program of Responsible Reproduction (lifting the ban on birth-control).
9.5. Base Civil and Church Governance on the U.S. Constitution.ORTHODOXYMORON GUIDESTONE:
1. BASE THIS SOLAR SYSTEM UPON RESPONSIBILITY AND THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.
2. MAINTAIN AN EARTH HUMAN POPULATION OF FOUR BILLION (TWO BILLION SURFACE - TWO BILLION SUBSURFACE) AND FOUR BILLION THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE SOLAR SYSTEM (MOSTLY SUBSURFACE).
3. BASE PHYSICAL, MENTAL, AND SPIRITUAL HEALTH UPON PREVENTION.
4. MAINTAIN A PRISTINE ENVIRONMENT.
5. USE ELECTRICAL POWER FOR NEARLY EVERYTHING, AND UTILIZE MAGNETO-LEVITON TRAINS FOR MOST GLOBAL TRANSPORTATION.Matthew 5: 1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set , his disciples came unto him: 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying ,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are they that mourn : for they shall be comforted . 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled . 7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy . 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. 10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye , when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely , for my sake . 12 Rejoice , and be exceeding glad : for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. 13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour , wherewith shall it be salted ? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid . 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy , but to fulfil . 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass , one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled . 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill ; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say , Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way ; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery : 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out , and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish , and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off , and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish , and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said , Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery . 33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself , but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool : neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be , Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said , An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law , and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away . 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said , Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye ? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 6: 1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth : 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly . 5 And when thou prayest , thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you , They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest , enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly . 7 But when ye pray , use not vain repetitions , as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come . Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. 16 Moreover when ye fast , be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast . Verily I say unto you , They have their reward. 17 But thou, when thou fastest , anoint thine head, and wash thy face; 18 That thou appear not unto men to fast , but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly . 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt , and where thieves break through and steal : 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt , and where thieves do not break through nor steal : 21 For where your treasure is , there will your heart be also. 22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat , or what ye shall drink ; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on . Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap , nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow ; they toil not, neither do they spin : 29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is , and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Therefore take no thought , saying , What shall we eat ? or, What shall we drink ? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed ? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek :) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 7: 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged . 2 For with what judgment ye judge , ye shall be judged : and with what measure ye mete , it shall be measured to you again . 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold , a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7 Ask , and it shall be given you; seek , and ye shall find ; knock , and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth ; and he that seeketh findeth ; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened . 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? 12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat : 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits . Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down , and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them , I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended , and the floods came , and the winds blew , and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended , and the floods came , and the winds blew , and beat upon that house; and it fell : and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass , when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
The church's one foundation 'tis Jesus Christ her Lord! Are the Teachings of Jesus first and foremost in your church? If not, why not? Who's church is it, anyway? Are most, if not all, sermons preached from the words of Christ? If not, why not? Ask the hard questions. Get to the bottom of this thing! The answer seems to be blowing in the wind…judging from all of the hot air you are likely to encounter…
It’s sort of like inviting a living President of the United States to a meeting of “supporters” and then seating him at the rear of the auditorium, and having other people give their speeches praising the name of the President, but without asking the President to be the keynote speaker! The name of Jesus gets praised to highest heaven, but the words of Jesus are often figuratively seated at the back of the church! How rude! Was it something He said?
Is Christianity the Teachings of Jesus believed and lived…or is it a ritualized religion about Jesus…paying little attention to what the Second Person of the Trinity actually said?! I have sometimes gotten the impression that Christians feel that Jesus’ place is on the cross on the wall of the church. But that the important business of doctrine is best left to Moses, Paul and the theologians! Jesus is expected to be seen, but not heard, and certainly not obeyed! In fact, Jesus is supposed to obey US when we pray for something!
Every sermon should be preached from the Teachings of Jesus! But context is important! The Old Testament is contextual, but not normative. Acts to Revelation is likewise contextual, but does not have veto power over the words of Jesus Christ! The Apostle Paul is not the Fourth Person of the Godhead! Sorry Paul!
The following is an exchange between me and a New Testament theologian:
Me: There is a problem here! The Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus Christ take a back seat to Paul! Christianity needs to repent, and resurrect the words of Christ, and make them first and foremost! I have decided to follow Jesus!
Response: Christ should always be given precedence over Paul. However, until Pentecost the full meaning of Christ's sayings could not be perceived. The Holy Spirit confronted Paul and led him into a unique ministry of interpretation and explanation. Because of his training it was given to Paul to explain what the atonement meant. This could not be done until after the atonement was made, i.e., until after Christ died. The primary enquiry of all intelligent souls is, 'How can I be right with my Creator?' It is only Paul who fully spells out the way with its root and its fruit. The great tragedy of even modern evangelicals is that salvation in its historical and objective senses is too often obscured. A closer attention to the writings of Paul could prevent this tragic loss.
Me: Thank-you for your thoughtful answer. But it is a classic example of "the Teachings of Jesus are lacking." I get the picture of someone who is befuddled (Jesus), and needs help with this and that from their attendant (Paul). Did the 2nd person of the Trinity not say everything of importance that needed to be said? Did He need someone to clean up after Him, and set the record straight?
Response: It is the Holy Spirit who decided that the teachings of Christ needed to be supplemented and therefore our NT does not stop at John 21. It doesn't detract from what Jesus said at all. May I recommend you compare what you can find about the meaning of the Cross from the Gospels with what you can find in the later books inspired by the Spirit of Christ.
The following is a different response by another theologian to essentially the same comment:
"Thank-you for your observations. You could have added that in the creeds of the Church, starting with the Apostle’s Creed, the only mention of the historical Jesus is that he died. Zero reference to anything he taught. We need the teaching of the man and not all this rubbish taught about the man. Your suggestion is so simple, so powerful. Do it!"
Well, I tried to do it - but they shut-down my website!
http://redletterchurch.net/Very few of you (only a dozen) have chosen to talk to me about Solar System Governance. I have tried to consider a lot of different possibilities - and I continue to have an open mind. But if no one really seems to be interested in the subject - what conclusions should I draw from this? Do you all really not want freedom? Do you really wish to be aristocratically or theocratically ruled? Do you really want a dictator - benevolent or otherwise - human or otherwise? I really wish to do that which is genuinely in everyone's best interest. But I feel pretty much rejected, at this point. I guess I shouldn't feel bad. The words of Jesus have been rejected for 2,000 years - and continue to be rejected. I certainly hope everyone gets what they want - and that no one is disappointed. Once again, the bottom-line is that I would like for things to work out well for all concerned - if that is at all possible. At this point, I don't really have an enemies list. I even have hope for those who are supposed to be my arch-enemies. I even have hope for myself. I obviously believe in justice - but I do not believe in cruel and unusual punishment. On the other hand, there may be thousands of years of some very negative karmic debt to deal with - some of which might be my own. I don't know what to do. I just want to do the right thing - whatever that is. I might even negotiate with the most dangerous beings, if I knew that I wouldn't be lured into their web, and eaten alive. It seems as though we really need to look into antiquity, to understand what is really going on in this solar system. Atlantis, Babylon, Egypt, Greece, and Rome may have more to do with our modern lives than we think. Take a long, hard look at the City States. This may be the generation who really needs to understand who we really are, and where we have really been - so as to be able to take the most rational next step - even if it is a painful step.
Consider the 94th Psalm. It might be later than we think. Choose wisely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFrKUk5lwmE&feature=related1 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. 2 Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. 3 LORD, how long shall the wicked, how long shall the wicked triumph ? 4 How long shall they utter and speak hard things? and all the workers of iniquity boast themselves? 5 They break in pieces thy people, O LORD, and afflict thine heritage. 6 They slay the widow and the stranger, and murder the fatherless. 7 Yet they say , The LORD shall not see , neither shall the God of Jacob regard it. 8 Understand , ye brutish among the people: and ye fools, when will ye be wise ? 9 He that planted the ear, shall he not hear ? he that formed the eye, shall he not see ? 10 He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct ? he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know? 11 The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. 12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest , O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law; 13 That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked. 14 For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. 15 But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. 16 Who will rise up for me against the evildoers ? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity? 17 Unless the LORD had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence. 18 When I said , My foot slippeth ; thy mercy, O LORD, held me up . 19 In the multitude of my thoughts within me thy comforts delight my soul. 20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law? 21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood. 22 But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge. 23 And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; yea, the LORD our God shall cut them off.
The more responsible the human race becomes - the less of a top-heavy governmental structure will be required. Responsibility = Freedom. Irresponsibility = Prison. I have made a proposal, in general terms, and those who are highly competent would need to refine it. I am presently fantasizing about a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - centered in the Vatican - believe it, or not! Try reading 'The Four Gospels', 'The Federalist Papers', 'The Anti-Federalist Papers', 'The Keys of This Blood', and 'The Jesuits' - at the same time - while listening to Latin Masses - and attempt an integration. This is more of a monumental effort than you might think. We are really in the middle of a spiritual war. This has been going on for thousands of years - and it seems to be intensifying. I can understand the rational for theocracy - and democracy. Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom seems to be a reasonable middle-ground. This universe might have a more rocky past than we think. Things might be difficult throughout the universe. I don't know. I'm simply trying to envision the most rational next step. Again - I am not shaking my fist at the Creator God of the Universe. I am shaking my fist at the God of This World. "Let My People Go!" I am shaking as I contemplate the fate of the Human Race - and those who have sought to enslave and exterminate the Human Race. The End is Near. The Beginning is Near.
What would the Teachings of Jesus, the U.S. Constitution, and the Modified Latin Mass look like in an Integrated Canon Law Format? You know - the language and style of the traditional church - applied to the content of these three items. Consider the Founding Documents of the United States of the Solar System - with the language and dignity of the Roman Catholic Church. Do you see my point? I guess I'm leaning more toward 'Dignified and Proper, Reverence and Awe, Pomp and Circumstance' - than 'I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy and Jesus is My Buddy'. Again - do you see my point? If the Roman Catholic Church essentially rules the world (overtly and covertly) - rather than simply being a religious and spiritual institution - shouldn't it have a Constitutional Representative Governmental Structure? Should so much power be concentrated in the hands of so few - who mostly deliberate in secret? I'm sort of trying to bring the whole Secret Government out into the open - and then refine it and purify it - with the highest standards of ethics and organization. I don't really know what I'm digging up - but I'm certainly not the only one digging - and I'm mostly observing what others have dug up! Anyway, I will continue to contemplate a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System - in the context of the Roman Catholic Church. Don't take this as my final answer. I just think we need to carefully consider the possibility of an integration. The world may be literally turning upside down - and we need to preemptively consider all of the reasonable possibilities - before things get REALLY bad. There is so much REALLY bad history - both secular and sacred - onworld and offworld. The potential for the extermination of the Human Race - as we know it - seems to be a very real and present danger. The major players and major issues continue to remain illusive - to me, anyway - and this REALLY TROUBLES ME. I seem to be facing the end of the world - without knowing the full story. This seems VERY wrong to me. Come - let us REASON together. I am becoming sadder and sadder - each and every day - to the point that life seems much less attractive than it used to be. Can I really handle the truth of our predicament? Can others? So much of this madness seems insanely irrational. The lies and absurditites are different at every level. Are the Harsh and Cruel Off-World Powers That Be preparing to implement a Final Solution against the Rebels Without a Clue on this Prison Planet in Rebellion? I truly desire an organized and ethical Pristine Earth. Do we really have to do the Utter Destruction and Retribution Eschatological Armageddon Routine? What would Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer say?
Despite some of my posts - the following music probably reflects who I really am - better than just about anything else. My mom used to sing this one a lot - and it makes me cry.
1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28LIXGF2d1o2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeALTHQQAWo&NR=13.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=328z5QwT--Q&feature=related4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OUfdCBaN8o&feature=related5.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGqN1Muu9sw&feature=related6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YQdf9hO8Kk&feature=related'THE HOLY CITY'
Last night I lay a-sleeping
There came a dream so fair,
I stood in old Jerusalem
Beside the temple there.
I heard the children singing,
And ever as they sang,
Me thought the voice of angels
From heaven in answer rang.
Me thought the voice of angels
From heaven in answer rang.
Jerusalem! Jerusalem!
Lift up your gates and sing,
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna to your King!
And then me thought my dream was changed,
The streets no longer rang,
Hushed were the glad Hosannas
The little children sang.
The sun grew dark with mystery,
The morn was cold and chill,
As the shadow of a cross arose
Upon a lonely hill.
As the shadow of a cross arose
Upon a lonely hill.
Jerusalem! Jerusalem!
Hark! How the angels sing,
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna to your King!
And once again the scene was changed;
New earth there seemed to be;
I saw the Holy City
Beside the tideless sea;
The light of God was on its streets,
The gates were open wide,
And all who would might enter,
And no one was denied.
No need of moon or stars by night,
Or sun to shine by day;
It was the new Jerusalem
That would not pass away.
It was the new Jerusalem
That would not pass away.
Jerusalem! Jerusalem!
Sing for the night is o'er!
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna for evermore!
Hosanna in the highest!
Hosanna for evermore!
THE HOLY CITY. THE NEW JERUSALEM. DON'T GET ON THAT UFO TOO QUICKLY...
Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:59 am; edited 4 times in total
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Namaste, and Have a Nice Day! 
For what it's worth, I'd like to pass on to you what I've learned about the 'who/what/why' trap after having 'researched' it for many long years, hoping something I say might ring true to you and help. Where to start?