IMPORTANT MESSAGE

firefly Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:48 pm

firefly: Posts : 42
Join date : 2010-04-16
Location : Byron Bay Australia

Post n°1

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

firefly Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:48 pm

Please check out this website and give your opinions!

http://www.deagel.com/country/forecast.aspx?pag=5&sort=GDP&ord=DESC .

My IT daughter has already investigated the web owner and it appears to be a UN Military website.

Love and friendship

firefly

mudra Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:59 am

mudra

mudra: Posts : 23307
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Age : 70
Location : belgium

Post n°2

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

mudra Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:59 am

A grim picture.
On the forum section of that site people are asking questions regarding the figures extrapolated by the author but get no answer.Thus it's mainly speculation.
I am aware things are not rosy though on planet Earth these days.

Love from me
mudra

RedEzra Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:09 pm

RedEzra

RedEzra: Posts : 559
Join date : 2014-04-24

Post n°3

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

RedEzra Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:09 pm

According to Newton and me we will be entering the last book of the Bible also known as the Apocalypse next year. And so the data at Deagel forecasting an immense loss of population in the developed world destroyed by an econmic collapse by 2025 fits the biblical timeline.

Personally I think also the not so developed world will suffer huge losses in an apocalyptic scenario according to
the Revelation of Jesus Christ which was put down in writing by John.

The only sound advice anybody ought to give in these times is Get right with God !

orthodoxymoron Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:23 pm

orthodoxymoron

orthodoxymoron: Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix

Post n°4

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

orthodoxymoron Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:23 pm

Don't forget to listen to Sherry Shriner!! http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sherrytalkradio/2014/11/11/11-10-14-monday-night-with-sherry-shriner Take everything Sherry says with a Dead-Sea of Salt!! I simply think Sherry makes one think about crazy things one would not otherwise think about -- yet which might be crucial to figuring things out -- but don't expect the show to make you happy. I've heard some of the most bizarre things on her show. I think I might know who Sherry really is -- but I don't want to talk about it. These images are interesting -- but I don't want to talk about them.

IMPORTANT MESSAGE Dogma-movie-poster-1999-1020228023

IMPORTANT MESSAGE Azazel_by_gothicnarcissus-d5wqnf8

Consider creating a Moot Holy-War between the following two KJV lists. Notice that they both begin with Genesis. I'm repeating this because I think it might be extremely important. Read straight-through both lists -- over and over again -- and see what understandings emerge. Once again, this is all about truth-seeking rather than happy-making.

1. Genesis.
2. Exodus.
3. Leviticus.
4. Numbers.
5. Deuteronomy.
6. Isaiah.
7. Jeremiah.
8. Lamentations.
9. Ezekiel.
10. Daniel.
11. Revelation.

1. Genesis.
2. Job.
3. Psalms.
4. Proverbs.
5. Ecclesiastes.
6. Song of Songs.
7. Luke.
8. John.
9. Acts.
10. Romans.
11. Hebrews.

Try thinking in terms of the first list being related to an Ancient Pre-Human Civilization ruling a Recent-Renegade Human-Civilization -- with the second list being related to a Recent-Hybrid Mediating-Civilization ruling a Recent-Renegade Human-Civilization. I think we might be on the verge of a Renegade-Humanity ruling a Renegade-Humanity -- with planned and calculated Disastrous-Results. Try contrasting this Moot Jihad with Peale and Schuller -- but don't think in stand-alone or stand-offish terms. Also -- notice that the writings of Ellen White are a case-study of a very-extensive version of this Holy War. This internal-conflict and internal-inconsistency have caused many SDA's to lose their faith (and leave the church) -- and that's without even mentioning the plagiarism and corruption. Mark Martin was right (in some ways) about The Spirit Behind the Church -- but I disagreed with a lot of his solutions (in college and in later years). I think that a combination of Prophets and Kings -- the 1928 Book of Common Prayer -- Believe in the God Who Believes in You -- and Sacred Classical Music -- might at least be a reasonable place to begin contemplating Ecumenical Adventism. What Would Dr. Fritz Guy Say?? What Would Dr. Elmer Herr Say?? What Would Daniel Jackson Say??

IMPORTANT MESSAGE Tumblr_mb6sd05h9i1rrpsd7

What Do Daniel Chapters Seven through Twelve REALLY Teach??
What if the Investigative-Judgment Began with the Release of Noah??
What if the Executive-Judgment Will End 120 Years Following the Release of Noah??
What Do Matthew Chapters Twenty-Three through Twenty-Five REALLY Teach??

mudra wrote:

orthodoxymoron wrote:Thank-you mudra. I've basically built a science-fictional house to live-in. I've made my bed -- and now I'm attempting to sleep in it -- but I keep having horrible nightmares!! I am out of step with everyone -- the church -- the atheists -- the new-agers -- and even with The Mists of Avalon!!

Oxy there are many things wrong with this world and they should be confronted. But there is a lot of good and beautiful things to. Pay attention to these too my friend for they are a vital part of keeping balance. As you do so you'll will see more and more.

Much Love from me
mudra

orthodoxymoron wrote:

I wish all of you well. I think I might be leaving soon -- and I think it might be permanently -- whether I like it or not. I sense that I am completely out of step with modern humanity. I seem to keep attempting to reinvent the wheel -- and fight old battles -- over and over again. Still -- some of you should probably study this study-guide -- just to nail-down some of the loose-ends of yesteryear -- as we move 'forward' into a Post Judeo-Christian Civilization. I hope you have the right Deities in the Planet-Earth War-Room. Things seem to be going rather well -- and I sure wouldn't wish to jinx things by getting in the way. I'm sorry we couldn't work together. Too much water has gone under the bridge. "Oh Well -- It's a Deep Subject!" I keep wondering if there is ultimately one space-program -- one nuclear arsenal -- one government -- and one religion (with many subsidiaries?) -- all controlled (and owned?) by one individual (or central-committee)?! What if such a situation has existed for dozens -- hundreds -- or even thousands of years?! What if the New World Order was established in (or under) Ancient-Egypt?? What if one being has ruled this hypothetical NWO for thousands of years?! It might be virtually impossible to know. Full-Disclosure might result in extremely negative consequences. If things go to hell "They" will probably have a "Fall-Guy" take the blame (deserved or undeserved) -- and then tighten their grip on the throat of humanity. There are an infinite number of possible religions and political-systems -- and an even greater number of possible interpretations and applications!! I generally support religious and political freedom -- but at what point does it all become a rebellious and confused mess?? The Torah is highly-intolerant regarding religious and political freedom. The rest of the Old Testament is more accommodating. The New Testament loosens things up even more BUT the Book of Revelation goes right back to the same old fire and brimstone torture and extermination of those who don't think and do exactly as they're told. American-Christians support religious and political freedom -- yet they wish to "Go to Heaven" where (if I read my Bible correctly) there will be no religious and political freedom.

I'm sorry to keep commenting in this manner -- but the basic arguments and principles connected with this line of thinking are foundational regarding the evaluation of existing and expected civilizations -- terrestrial and extra-terrestrial. I keep wondering what Judaism has done with Joshua through Malachi -- or if there have been Joshua through Malachi Branches of Judaism which excluded the Torah?? How much of the Torah is repeated and/or reinforced within Joshua through Malachi?? Does Joshua through Malachi really require the New Testament for fulfillment and completion?? I've recently been attempting an integration of Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Isaiah, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, and Hebrews -- to gain a Composite View of God which is not particularly Old-Testament or New-Testament. The Torah seems to require Human-Sacrifice and Substitutionary-Atonement for resolution and appeasement -- but does Joshua through Malachi contain similar requirements?? There seems to be a deliberate layer of deception which extends from antiquity to modernity -- and I find this to be extremely suspicious. Studying World War II and Nazi-Germany might provide a lot of revealing windows regarding the past, present, and future. There were too many witnesses, and too much documentation -- to keep things quiet and hidden. The internet has facilitated the release and communication of vast amounts of forbidden-information -- for better or worse -- I know not. Think of me working for the Central-Earth Intelligence-Agency as a Galactic-Vatican Analyst!! Think of me being a Galactic Jack Ryan aka Jack and/or Bill aka Orthodoxymoron!! Think of me living in a Deep Underground 600 Square-Foot Office-Apartment -- and driving a Porsche Turbo!! Think of me driving onto Sandia without showing ID!! "They know me". I have a space-law book with a Sandia stamp -- and that's probably as close as I'll ever get!! https://www.youtube.com/user/SandiaLabs Think of me specializing in the following:

1. Job. (KJV)
2. Psalms.
3. Proverbs.
4. Ecclesiastes.
5. Isaiah.
6. Luke.
7. John.
8. Acts.
9. Romans.
10. Hebrews.
11. The Gods of Eden (William Bramley).
12. Eden in Egypt (Ralph Ellis).
13. Patriarchs and Prophets (Ellen White).
14. Tempest and Exodus (Ralph Ellis).
15. Prophets and Kings (Ellen White).
16. Solomon: Pharaoh of Egypt (Ralph Ellis).
17. The Desire of Ages (Ellen White).
18. The 1928 Book of Common Prayer (and Liturgy).
19. The Federalist Papers (and US Constitution).
20. The Timechart History of the World.
21. The Great Hymns and Gregorian Chants.
22. The Music of Johann Sebastian Bach and George Frederick Handel.
23. Babylon 5 -- Stargate SG-1 -- Earth: Final Conflict -- and V (Series and Movies).

Please consider making an intensive, integrated, and ongoing study of these materials. I mostly assume that "whistle-blowers" (especially regarding ufo's, aliens, secret-facilities, etc and et al) are not who and what they say they are (or have seen and done). I mostly assume that 90% of these people are crack-pots -- but that the remaining 10% get fed information from those who really know. I can't prove this -- but it's just what I think. I'm NOT endorsing the following link regarding the Holocaust. I'm including it because of who wrote the article (Dr. Lorraine Day). I've enjoyed listening to her in the past -- but stumbling upon this material shocked me!! http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/spiritual/home_study/holocaust_lie.htm I'm honestly neutral about this sort of thing (as I try to be about most things). BTW -- What if Madagascar had become the State of Israel in (or around) 1938?? Dr. Day sort of suggested that Hitler wanted such a development (but not necessarily in 1938). Would that have been a viable possibility (perhaps with Jerusalem becoming an International City)?? What might Madagascar and the Middle-East have looked like today if that had occurred (with no extermination-camps in WWII -- real or hoaxed)??!! I should stop. I continue to think that history is nastier and messier than most of us can imagine -- and that there are probably good and bad sides to just about everyone and everything (including Zionist-Jews and Nazi-Germans). I include a lot of objectionable and controversial material within this thread, as my attempt to make all of us think in unconventional ways. I corresponded with Dr. Day a few years ago -- and she thought I was crazy!! Imagine that!! Please don't neglect Biblical-Studies -- even if you don't believe -- but don't expect it to make you happy. The conclusions I've reached while creating this thread are startling (to say the least) -- and I have mostly just hinted at them. A direct-revelation would probably be devastating. I think reality (past, present, and future) is too problematic for most of us to properly-process. I have no idea if this thread will ever become respectable. I doubt it -- but who knows?? I think it might simply be my private conceptual-laboratory and study-guide. Expecting anyone to tag-along is probably an unrealistic-expectation. If anyone actually studied this thread, it might be deemed dangerous by the Thought-Police!! Does a thread actually exist, if no one views it?? The "Thread That Never Was??" The problem with this sort of thing is that it takes too much time and energy for most people to properly deal with it. I've tried to deal with it by considering most all of it to be science-fictional in nature -- as a mixture of fact and fiction. It's almost "morbid-entertainment" for me -- wherein I try to deal with the crazy material in the context of my "home-thread" -- and then just move-on without getting too worked-up about anything. I just read that very controversial "Holocaust" article -- without knowing how much of it was true -- and just took it in stride -- and moved-on. After agonizing and struggling with this thread for a significant time-period -- consider an extended study of Norman Vincent Peale and Robert Harold Schuller. Don't take shortcuts. Do your homework. Many consider Peale-Appalling and Paul-Appealing!! What Would Sherry Shriner Say?? What Would J. Vernon McGee Say?? What Would Fibber McGee Say?? What Would Molly Say?? What Would Monseigneur Bowe Say?? What Would E. Power Biggs Play?? You don't want to know -- or do you?? http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sherrytalkradio/2014/07/08/07-07-14-monday-night-with-sherry-shriner BTW -- The KGB Read the KJV!! How do you think they learned to be so Bad@$$??!!

orthodoxymoron wrote: Moral-Ambiguity and Looking the Other Way work wonders when seeking a Beautiful-Wife and a Comfortable-Life. Hyper-Morality and Whistle-Blowing work wonders when seeking Firing, Defrocking, Excommunication, Lawsuits, Jail, Divorce, Nervous-Breakdowns, Bankruptcy, Suicide, Etc. "You'll Never Work in This TOWN Again!!" or "You'll Never Work in This DUMB Again!!" Pain is the Cost of Doing Business in the Universe. There are Positive and Negative Sides to Positive-Thinking and Self-Esteem. I've tried to be open, honest, and trenchant -- and this has been an utter-disaster. Joining the Masons and Going to Church might've been a better plan.

"Thus Sprach Zathras!!"

I don't think I'm possessed -- but I do think I'm harassed -- and I think this has been the case throughout my life -- although it's gotten exponentially worse since I started posting on the internet six or seven years ago. I have never gotten involved in anything even remotely creepy (other than researching some creepy subjects in a very passive manner). I've met some interesting people (and possibly other-than-people) -- but I haven't sold my soul to any of them. I stopped going to church (to gain a different perspective) -- but I have never been opposed to church (other than objecting to the usual lies, corruption, fighting, and other general categories of bullshit). My version of Protestantism is the Rethinking of Roman Catholicism. I haven't betrayed the SDA church. I've merely attempted to consider SDA ideas in unlikely contexts. I still think that in some way -- the SDA and Catholic churches are run by the same Hidden PTB -- but I can't prove it. If I could, I'd probably be dead. I might be Dead-Meat anyway -- but there are a lot worse problems for you Megalomaniacs Anonymous to worry about. Who knows?? I might turn-out to be your Best-Buddy. I've really been attempting to hint-at the Gizeh-Intelligence version of Judeo-Christianity. The following video is disturbing -- but I find the way Jamie Foxx said "Obama" to be particularly interesting. I know someone who accents syllables in a similar manner. You don't want to know what I'm thinking -- and I don't want to talk about it.

I found this Barack Obama talk to be quite interesting -- in good and bad ways. I think Prophets and Kings by Ellen White might at least hint at a reasonable middle-ground in these matters. I'm neutral regarding President Obama. I continue to think that ALL Major Politicians and Clergy are groomed, controlled, and scripted by the Secret-Government (for better or worse -- I know not). A New-Reformation might have to retain many of the Old-Ways (whether anyone likes it or not). Are there such things as "Necessary-Evils" and "White-Lies"??!!

This George W. Bush interview is interesting regarding "God and Freedom". Remember that "The Powers That Be Are Ordained by God". Think long and hard about that. What if at least one aspect of the Secret-Government went Rogue (in the near or distant past)??!! What if we require a Non-Corrupt and Highly-Competent Secret-Government (Human and/or Otherwise)?? I find Earth: Final Conflict to be extremely interesting regarding these matters. I continue to think that the General-Public would go nuts if they knew how things REALLY work in this solar system. "Disclosure" might mean "Disaster". I would NOT wish to be anywhere near such a revolting-development.

IMPORTANT MESSAGE 39f57f50c2f7b1d1eca9eadc29ac3414

"How Much Longer Do You Plan to Hold Back the Four Winds of Strife???"

**Carol** Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:26 am

Carol

Carol: Admin; Posts : 32906
Join date : 2010-04-07
Location : Hawaii

Post n°5

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Carol Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:26 am

Oxy, back when George Bush Senior was the director of the CIA in the 70s he became involved in the secret gov time travel program where he learned that both he, his son and Obama all would become president of the US. This 4 hour interview with Bernie Mendez covers a lot of what traspired in some of these secret programs as Mendez was a special Presidential assistant during the early 1970's working directly with ET races. He was also involved in time travel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS8DwK7Fy_Y&feature=related To make a long story short, Obama has been groomed since he was young and knew he would one day be president. GB knows a lot of potential future events to occur because of his connections. In addition, I once was in communication with GB where he was bragging how Jeb was going to run for president and he expected him to win. They had to hold Jeb back from the last election given what was going on with O and his second term. However, one can easily see from this last election how the public is fed up with democrats and voted a republican ticket. What they (TPTB) are pushing for is a Clinton / Bush ticket for 2016. The bottom line is no new blood except for O whose history of a drug user (as Bush Jr.) guarentees that he has brain damage from past drug use and subsequent impaired judgment which can easily be scientifically proven by a SPECT scan of the brain. Meanwhile these men are easily controlled by their handliers. For Bush it was Cheney. For O it's most likely Valery Jarrett who was with O when he too was involved in the secret time-travel program as a youth. When exploring these men's personal history they're are layers upon layers of info if one is willing to dig deep enough. They serve the dark side. It's easy to see if one knows what to look for along with the contacts that were there with them way back when. I've learned that somethings are not meant to be known for a variety of reasons. That the real truth will likely never go to MSM. And have come to a place of inner peace with the way things I have no control over. I knew all of this before O was ever elected - over 6 years ago. Yes, we had hoped he would not be controlled by his conditioning but alas.. it didn't happen nor will it. We're just the spectators observing the play as it unfolds. Much like observing the GCR as well. The good news is that they're men of integrity standing in the wings to go on stage. As to when that will happen.. is anyone's guess.

By the way, thank you for Sherry's link. I had wanted to listen to her for myself and see how her perspective/info rolled out.

As for the decline in population - could even be the result a pole shift of some sort. I think we're entering into a new ice age as well. Certain climate changes are cyclic. That's why it's even more important to enjoy the present without giving too attention to the negative. It's more fulfilling when life is enjoyed by fulfilling one's own personal potential.

_________________
What is life?
It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.
With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol

orthodoxymoron Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:03 am

orthodoxymoron

orthodoxymoron: Posts : 13639
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : The Matrix

Post n°6

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

orthodoxymoron Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:03 am

Thank-you Carol. I keep wondering if all of us came here from Orion (as souls in pre-human physicality) -- with all sorts of advanced technology -- yet with a very strict and structured military-theocratic governance-model -- and that (at some point) there were renegade ventures into forbidden genetics and governance?! The alien-stuff might be what we brought here (and arrived as) in antiquity. I'm presently thinking in terms of Orion-Angelic = Orion-Reptilian -- and that all of us were Orion-Reptilians in the very-ancient past. I also suspect that the Orion-PTB wish to end the Renegade Human-Experiment -- and return everyone to a Pre-Human physicality and governance existence. I can't prove any of this -- and I just keep using my diseased imagination -- which drives me nuttier and nuttier. I have no idea when the PTB might pull the plug on someone (such as me) who ventures too far into the "forbidden-zone". I never know how close to the edge I am -- so I usually limit my thinking to an excruciating extent. If the Secret-Government plans decades and centuries in advance -- it might not be too difficult to predict the future -- even without supernatural or technological methodologies. I keep thinking in terms of an Underground Orion-Hebrew-Egyptian Civilization ruling the world (and possibly the whole solar system) at least since the Israelite-Exodus (but I can't prove it). I also suspect internal power-struggles and rogue-elements. I keep imagining what it might be like to serve in the Gizeh Intelligence Agency as a Galactic Vatican Analyst?! If Gizeh Intelligence (or equivalent) controls the major politicians and clergy -- does it really matter who wins elections or gets promoted?? George W annoyed me -- but George HW scared me. I think of Obama as being an Obot!! To be President -- one would need to be deeply in bed with the Hidden-PTB -- and able to keep up appearances -- read teleprompters in a convincing and forceful manner -- and do exactly as instructed (regardless of how immoral or illogical those instructions might be). I wouldn't be surprised if perfect-possession -- illegal-drugs -- and extensive-programming -- are part of the deal. I continue to think that I would NOT like the view from the Top of the Pyramid. Sherry Shriner says a lot of things which seem ridiculous -- but I sometimes think this is a cover for the "good-stuff".

burgundia Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:08 am

burgundia

burgundia: Posts : 5520
Join date : 2010-04-09
Location : Poland

Post n°7

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

burgundia Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:08 am

check out the youtube channel of that woman. Her name is 9Nania. For 3 years she has been having visions that all come true sooner or later. Sometimes when she has a vision, she doesn't fully understand it but some time later we start seeing in real life what she saw in her vision months or years earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsqOo2YgH0cnpiQZnrz6tew

bobhardee Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:41 pm

bobhardee

bobhardee: Posts : 3458
Join date : 2012-09-08
Age : 74
Location : The Sandhills of SC

Post n°8

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

bobhardee Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:41 pm

11/16/2014 This has nothing anything to do with Bernie Mendez or time travel but it should add to the conversation as to what was known and when and so forth.....as well as to add to the general strangeness that we are witnessing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzIiLp1TqYQ

B.B.Baghor Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:28 pm

B.B.Baghor

B.B.Baghor: Posts : 1851
Join date : 2014-01-31
Age : 73
Location : Druid county UK

Post n°9

Coming or going?

B.B.Baghor Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:28 pm

Hey Orthodoxymoron, forgive me but I fell from my chair with laughing... noticing that, since I left the MoA and came back again, just this Sunday,
that you're still not knowing if you're coming or going. Probably we won't find the last words of you yet. Toast

orthodoxymoron wrote:Don't forget to listen to Sherry Shriner!! http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sherrytalkradio/2014/11/11/11-10-14-monday-night-with-sherry-shriner Take everything Sherry says with a Dead-Sea of Salt!! I simply think Sherry makes one think about crazy things one would not otherwise think about -- yet which might be crucial to figuring things out -- but don't expect the show to make you happy. I've heard some of the most bizarre things on her show. I think I might know who Sherry really is -- but I don't want to talk about it. These images are interesting -- but I don't want to talk about them.

Consider creating a Moot Holy-War between the following two KJV lists. Notice that they both begin with Genesis. I'm repeating this because I think it might be extremely important. Read straight-through both lists -- over and over again -- and see what understandings emerge. Once again, this is all about truth-seeking rather than happy-making.

1. Genesis.
2. Exodus.
3. Leviticus.
4. Numbers.
5. Deuteronomy.
6. Isaiah.
7. Jeremiah.
8. Lamentations.
9. Ezekiel.
10. Daniel.
11. Revelation.

1. Genesis.
2. Job.
3. Psalms.
4. Proverbs.
5. Ecclesiastes.
6. Song of Songs.
7. Luke.
8. John.
9. Acts.
10. Romans.
11. Hebrews.

Try thinking in terms of the first list being related to an Ancient Pre-Human Civilization ruling a Recent-Renegade Human-Civilization -- with the second list being related to a Recent-Hybrid Mediating-Civilization ruling a Recent-Renegade Human-Civilization. I think we might be on the verge of a Renegade-Humanity ruling a Renegade-Humanity -- with planned and calculated Disastrous-Results. Try contrasting this Moot Jihad with Peale and Schuller -- but don't think in stand-alone or stand-offish terms. Also -- notice that the writings of Ellen White are a case-study of a very-extensive version of this Holy War. This internal-conflict and internal-inconsistency have caused many SDA's to lose their faith (and leave the church) -- and that's without even mentioning the plagiarism and corruption. Mark Martin was right (in some ways) about The Spirit Behind the Church -- but I disagreed with a lot of his solutions (in college and in later years). I think that a combination of Prophets and Kings -- the 1928 Book of Common Prayer -- Believe in the God Who Believes in You -- and Sacred Classical Music -- might at least be a reasonable place to begin contemplating Ecumenical Adventism. What Would Dr. Fritz Guy Say?? What Would Dr. Elmer Herr Say?? What Would Daniel Jackson Say??

What Do Daniel Chapters Seven through Twelve REALLY Teach??
What if the Investigative-Judgment Began with the Release of Noah??
What if the Executive-Judgment Will End 120 Years Following the Release of Noah??
What Do Matthew Chapters Twenty-Three through Twenty-Five REALLY Teach??

mudra wrote:

orthodoxymoron wrote:Thank-you mudra. I've basically built a science-fictional house to live-in. I've made my bed -- and now I'm attempting to sleep in it -- but I keep having horrible nightmares!! I am out of step with everyone -- the church -- the atheists -- the new-agers -- and even with The Mists of Avalon!!

Oxy there are many things wrong with this world and they should be confronted. But there is a lot of good and beautiful things to. Pay attention to these too my friend for they are a vital part of keeping balance. As you do so you'll will see more and more.

Much Love from me
mudra

orthodoxymoron wrote:

I wish all of you well. I think I might be leaving soon -- and I think it might be permanently -- whether I like it or not. I sense that I am completely out of step with modern humanity. I seem to keep attempting to reinvent the wheel -- and fight old battles -- over and over again. Still -- some of you should probably study this study-guide -- just to nail-down some of the loose-ends of yesteryear -- as we move 'forward' into a Post Judeo-Christian Civilization. I hope you have the right Deities in the Planet-Earth War-Room. Things seem to be going rather well -- and I sure wouldn't wish to jinx things by getting in the way. I'm sorry we couldn't work together. Too much water has gone under the bridge. "Oh Well -- It's a Deep Subject!" I keep wondering if there is ultimately one space-program -- one nuclear arsenal -- one government -- and one religion (with many subsidiaries?) -- all controlled (and owned?) by one individual (or central-committee)?! What if such a situation has existed for dozens -- hundreds -- or even thousands of years?! What if the New World Order was established in (or under) Ancient-Egypt?? What if one being has ruled this hypothetical NWO for thousands of years?! It might be virtually impossible to know. Full-Disclosure might result in extremely negative consequences. If things go to hell "They" will probably have a "Fall-Guy" take the blame (deserved or undeserved) -- and then tighten their grip on the throat of humanity. There are an infinite number of possible religions and political-systems -- and an even greater number of possible interpretations and applications!! I generally support religious and political freedom -- but at what point does it all become a rebellious and confused mess?? The Torah is highly-intolerant regarding religious and political freedom. The rest of the Old Testament is more accommodating. The New Testament loosens things up even more BUT the Book of Revelation goes right back to the same old fire and brimstone torture and extermination of those who don't think and do exactly as they're told. American-Christians support religious and political freedom -- yet they wish to "Go to Heaven" where (if I read my Bible correctly) there will be no religious and political freedom.

I'm sorry to keep commenting in this manner -- but the basic arguments and principles connected with this line of thinking are foundational regarding the evaluation of existing and expected civilizations -- terrestrial and extra-terrestrial. I keep wondering what Judaism has done with Joshua through Malachi -- or if there have been Joshua through Malachi Branches of Judaism which excluded the Torah?? How much of the Torah is repeated and/or reinforced within Joshua through Malachi?? Does Joshua through Malachi really require the New Testament for fulfillment and completion?? I've recently been attempting an integration of Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Isaiah, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, and Hebrews -- to gain a Composite View of God which is not particularly Old-Testament or New-Testament. The Torah seems to require Human-Sacrifice and Substitutionary-Atonement for resolution and appeasement -- but does Joshua through Malachi contain similar requirements?? There seems to be a deliberate layer of deception which extends from antiquity to modernity -- and I find this to be extremely suspicious. Studying World War II and Nazi-Germany might provide a lot of revealing windows regarding the past, present, and future. There were too many witnesses, and too much documentation -- to keep things quiet and hidden. The internet has facilitated the release and communication of vast amounts of forbidden-information -- for better or worse -- I know not. Think of me working for the Central-Earth Intelligence-Agency as a Galactic-Vatican Analyst!! Think of me being a Galactic Jack Ryan aka Jack and/or Bill aka Orthodoxymoron!! Think of me living in a Deep Underground 600 Square-Foot Office-Apartment -- and driving a Porsche Turbo!! Think of me driving onto Sandia without showing ID!! "They know me". I have a space-law book with a Sandia stamp -- and that's probably as close as I'll ever get!! https://www.youtube.com/user/SandiaLabs Think of me specializing in the following:

1. Job. (KJV)
2. Psalms.
3. Proverbs.
4. Ecclesiastes.
5. Isaiah.
6. Luke.
7. John.
8. Acts.
9. Romans.
10. Hebrews.
11. The Gods of Eden (William Bramley).
12. Eden in Egypt (Ralph Ellis).
13. Patriarchs and Prophets (Ellen White).
14. Tempest and Exodus (Ralph Ellis).
15. Prophets and Kings (Ellen White).
16. Solomon: Pharaoh of Egypt (Ralph Ellis).
17. The Desire of Ages (Ellen White).
18. The 1928 Book of Common Prayer (and Liturgy).
19. The Federalist Papers (and US Constitution).
20. The Timechart History of the World.
21. The Great Hymns and Gregorian Chants.
22. The Music of Johann Sebastian Bach and George Frederick Handel.
23. Babylon 5 -- Stargate SG-1 -- Earth: Final Conflict -- and V (Series and Movies).

Please consider making an intensive, integrated, and ongoing study of these materials. I mostly assume that "whistle-blowers" (especially regarding ufo's, aliens, secret-facilities, etc and et al) are not who and what they say they are (or have seen and done). I mostly assume that 90% of these people are crack-pots -- but that the remaining 10% get fed information from those who really know. I can't prove this -- but it's just what I think. I'm NOT endorsing the following link regarding the Holocaust. I'm including it because of who wrote the article (Dr. Lorraine Day). I've enjoyed listening to her in the past -- but stumbling upon this material shocked me!! http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/spiritual/home_study/holocaust_lie.htm I'm honestly neutral about this sort of thing (as I try to be about most things). BTW -- What if Madagascar had become the State of Israel in (or around) 1938?? Dr. Day sort of suggested that Hitler wanted such a development (but not necessarily in 1938). Would that have been a viable possibility (perhaps with Jerusalem becoming an International City)?? What might Madagascar and the Middle-East have looked like today if that had occurred (with no extermination-camps in WWII -- real or hoaxed)??!! I should stop. I continue to think that history is nastier and messier than most of us can imagine -- and that there are probably good and bad sides to just about everyone and everything (including Zionist-Jews and Nazi-Germans). I include a lot of objectionable and controversial material within this thread, as my attempt to make all of us think in unconventional ways. I corresponded with Dr. Day a few years ago -- and she thought I was crazy!! Imagine that!! Please don't neglect Biblical-Studies -- even if you don't believe -- but don't expect it to make you happy. The conclusions I've reached while creating this thread are startling (to say the least) -- and I have mostly just hinted at them. A direct-revelation would probably be devastating. I think reality (past, present, and future) is too problematic for most of us to properly-process. I have no idea if this thread will ever become respectable. I doubt it -- but who knows?? I think it might simply be my private conceptual-laboratory and study-guide. Expecting anyone to tag-along is probably an unrealistic-expectation. If anyone actually studied this thread, it might be deemed dangerous by the Thought-Police!! Does a thread actually exist, if no one views it?? The "Thread That Never Was??" The problem with this sort of thing is that it takes too much time and energy for most people to properly deal with it. I've tried to deal with it by considering most all of it to be science-fictional in nature -- as a mixture of fact and fiction. It's almost "morbid-entertainment" for me -- wherein I try to deal with the crazy material in the context of my "home-thread" -- and then just move-on without getting too worked-up about anything. I just read that very controversial "Holocaust" article -- without knowing how much of it was true -- and just took it in stride -- and moved-on. After agonizing and struggling with this thread for a significant time-period -- consider an extended study of Norman Vincent Peale and Robert Harold Schuller. Don't take shortcuts. Do your homework. Many consider Peale-Appalling and Paul-Appealing!! What Would Sherry Shriner Say?? What Would J. Vernon McGee Say?? What Would Fibber McGee Say?? What Would Molly Say?? What Would Monseigneur Bowe Say?? What Would E. Power Biggs Play?? You don't want to know -- or do you?? http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sherrytalkradio/2014/07/08/07-07-14-monday-night-with-sherry-shriner BTW -- The KGB Read the KJV!! How do you think they learned to be so Bad@$$??!!

orthodoxymoron wrote: Moral-Ambiguity and Looking the Other Way work wonders when seeking a Beautiful-Wife and a Comfortable-Life. Hyper-Morality and Whistle-Blowing work wonders when seeking Firing, Defrocking, Excommunication, Lawsuits, Jail, Divorce, Nervous-Breakdowns, Bankruptcy, Suicide, Etc. "You'll Never Work in This TOWN Again!!" or "You'll Never Work in This DUMB Again!!" Pain is the Cost of Doing Business in the Universe. There are Positive and Negative Sides to Positive-Thinking and Self-Esteem. I've tried to be open, honest, and trenchant -- and this has been an utter-disaster. Joining the Masons and Going to Church might've been a better plan.

"Thus Sprach Zathras!!"

I don't think I'm possessed -- but I do think I'm harassed -- and I think this has been the case throughout my life -- although it's gotten exponentially worse since I started posting on the internet six or seven years ago. I have never gotten involved in anything even remotely creepy (other than researching some creepy subjects in a very passive manner). I've met some interesting people (and possibly other-than-people) -- but I haven't sold my soul to any of them. I stopped going to church (to gain a different perspective) -- but I have never been opposed to church (other than objecting to the usual lies, corruption, fighting, and other general categories of bullshit). My version of Protestantism is the Rethinking of Roman Catholicism. I haven't betrayed the SDA church. I've merely attempted to consider SDA ideas in unlikely contexts. I still think that in some way -- the SDA and Catholic churches are run by the same Hidden PTB -- but I can't prove it. If I could, I'd probably be dead. I might be Dead-Meat anyway -- but there are a lot worse problems for you Megalomaniacs Anonymous to worry about. Who knows?? I might turn-out to be your Best-Buddy. I've really been attempting to hint-at the Gizeh-Intelligence version of Judeo-Christianity. The following video is disturbing -- but I find the way Jamie Foxx said "Obama" to be particularly interesting. I know someone who accents syllables in a similar manner. You don't want to know what I'm thinking -- and I don't want to talk about it.

I found this Barack Obama talk to be quite interesting -- in good and bad ways. I think Prophets and Kings by Ellen White might at least hint at a reasonable middle-ground in these matters. I'm neutral regarding President Obama. I continue to think that ALL Major Politicians and Clergy are groomed, controlled, and scripted by the Secret-Government (for better or worse -- I know not). A New-Reformation might have to retain many of the Old-Ways (whether anyone likes it or not). Are there such things as "Necessary-Evils" and "White-Lies"??!!

This George W. Bush interview is interesting regarding "God and Freedom". Remember that "The Powers That Be Are Ordained by God". Think long and hard about that. What if at least one aspect of the Secret-Government went Rogue (in the near or distant past)??!! What if we require a Non-Corrupt and Highly-Competent Secret-Government (Human and/or Otherwise)?? I find Earth: Final Conflict to be extremely interesting regarding these matters. I continue to think that the General-Public would go nuts if they knew how things REALLY work in this solar system. "Disclosure" might mean "Disaster". I would NOT wish to be anywhere near such a revolting-development.

"How Much Longer Do You Plan to Hold Back the Four Winds of Strife???"

orthodoxymoron Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:09 pm

orthodoxymoron

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Post n°10

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

orthodoxymoron Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:09 pm

B.B.Baghor wrote:Hey Orthodoxymoron, forgive me but I fell from my chair with laughing... noticing that, since I left the MoA and came back again, just this Sunday, that you're still not knowing if you're coming or going. Probably we won't find the last words of you yet.

Welcome back BB. Eschatology is no laughing matter -- but it's not the end of the world. Wait a minute. Yes it is. BTW -- I am so old and senile that I never really know if I'm coming or going!!
Nutbar

THEeXchanger Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:55 am

THEeXchanger

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Location : My own little heaven on earth

Post n°11

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

THEeXchanger Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:55 am

we have 'real' answers YET no one will help us
NOW, the project is just way bigger than we are
and; we can NOT bankroll it alone
- could someone help me to create a crowd funding plan ???
we know how to win the spiritual war, which is the neXt huge one !!!
however, in order to do it, we need to be able to afford to stay in 3D to do it !!!

shiloh Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:35 am

shiloh

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Post n°12

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

shiloh Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:35 am

orthodoxymoron wrote:

B.B.Baghor wrote:Hey Orthodoxymoron, forgive me but I fell from my chair with laughing... noticing that, since I left the MoA and came back again, just this Sunday, that you're still not knowing if you're coming or going. Probably we won't find the last words of you yet.

Welcome back BB. Eschatology is no laughing matter -- but it's not the end of the world. Wait a minute. Yes it is. BTW -- I am so old and senile that I never really know if I'm coming or going!!

Plato's Dragon Science

IMPORTANT MESSAGE Imagesv5jdcub8-jpg

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Theoretical_Physics_Board/conversations/topics/14016;_ylc=X3oDMTJzbHBsbjRkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzc5MzgxMTgwBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzU0MTYzOARtc2dJZAMxNDAxNgRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxNDE2MjE0NjY1

Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:23 am (PST) . Posted by: "Roger Clough" rclough@verizon.net

How platonic physics helps discover, not invent, the universe

Sebastian Bach felt that he was discovering, not inventing or composing, music.
Discovering the laws or cosmology of music. This is a most platonic attitude. Like Mozart, Bach was just writing down what he heard.
Platonic physics and Leibniz's Monadology give a structured outline of the way things are.

http://multisenserealism.com/consciousness-problems-and-possible-solutions/books/notes-on-leibniz-monadology/

Life, according to platonic physics

Life, according to platonic physics, is simply intelligence, where intelligence is the autonomous free will (non-deterministic) ability to freely make choices.

Autonomous intelligence is necessary to survive. It enables even the bacterium to survive.
So life, free will (non-determinism), intelligence, Mind, non-physicality all go together.
Thus life was nonphysically present, as part of Mind, "before" the universe began, and is part of the intelligence of nature today.
Thus Leibniz believed that the universe itself, and everything in it, is alive.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. In the beginning, there was Nothing (Plato's One, or Mind) which is nonphysical (spaceless and timeless).
{In the Beginning was the Definition-Logos, and the Definition was with the Super Energy (Only Metaphysical/Abstract Before Physicality) and the Definition was the Energy (Physical And Metaphysical)!

John.1.1 -KJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.}

2. This Nothing that physicists speak of is nonphysical Mind, pure intelligence, awareness, and the capacity to do work.
{Correct! This statement requires definition of the labels used however. In particular the namings of 'Mind' and 'Awareness' and 'Work' demand definition in basic terms in logical self-consistency. Intelligence as the utility and application of the Mind then can become a consequence or derivative of the 'using of the mind' and the capacity to do work relates to the concept of Energy as the product of an applied Force utilized in an amount or region of Space.}

3. The One then simply conceived of or engendered Leibniz's Many (quanta or monads), in the Big Bang, creating a dual.
{Correct! In technical terminology the Infinite Nothingness aka the Eternal Void created its own Unity as a Oneness yet separated across a displacement or barrier or 'quantum tunnel' aka wormhole or 'firmament dividing heaven and earth' or 'abyss' or 'bottomless pit'.
The dual can be defined as a 11 dimensional super membrane of sourcesink and sinksource gauge string coupling on the quantum state of the microcosm, which macroquantises in a Einstein-Rosen Bridge or a White Hole - Black Hole duality and whose displacement of separation remains macro quantum entangled in the high energy-frequency vibratory sourcesink (as a 'Quasar') as power source for the sinksource (as a 'Black Hole') in its low energy and winded superstring complement or conjugative.}

4. The physical world is entirely made of matter, the physical correspondents to Leibniz's mental monads or quanta.
{Not true, as electromagnetic radiation or EMR is massless in its photonic gauge definition, but cannot exist independent of mass itself. All electromagnetic radiation, say radio waves, infrared, visble light, ultra violet, x-rays and gamma-atomic radiation are created by the acceleration of electric charges, which are ALWAYS mass associated in inertial particles like protons angularly accelerated in the interior and surface of the sun and stars. The quality of the 'mind particle' enables the 'higher dimensional' light to remain independent of mass however. This higher dimensional light then can be labelled as the 'spirit' and the basic constituent of the 'soul' and the 'spirit'. A more technical nomenclature renames this 'spirit' then as Electromagnetic Monopolar Radiation or EMMR and it is the EMMR, which can be defined as the dyadic monad of Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz and as the Infinitesimal of Isaac Newton in an appropriate definition of say the bifurcated multi-dimensional super membrane.}

5. Thus Mind, the mental correspondent to the physical world, is an infinite collection of monads (quanta).
{What is infinite is the Eternal Void, from which all existence derived from as a timeless and spaceless plenum. Thus the original Eternity was also the Nullstate without Unity. To manifest the potential for Unity or Oneness, the Void and the Eternity had to blend their undefinable qualities quantitatively and qualitatively and so the idea of the Number 1 was born. As the universe physical is finite, however able to expand eternally in a linear projection of circular or 'cycle quantum time'; the number of actual source energy quanta or monads can be counted as a summation of the wormhole quanta defining the physical singularity from which the so called Quantum Big Bang emerged in mathematical and logistical self consistency and under obeyance to all prior abstractly defined 'Laws of Nature'.
The formulation is simply the Volume of the spacially and time defined Omniverse divided by the volumar of the wormhole quanta as a Source Energy.

Using a calibrated Mean-Alignment-Time or MAT of say November 5th, 1996 at 00:00 +11UCT; this number of wormhole quanta is:
2p²R_Hubble³x(n/MAT=1.132419321...)/2p²R_wormhole³=8.04999159x10⁷⁹/7.95774715x10^-68=1.1455461x10¹⁴⁷ at MAT
and adding H_ox1.1455461x10¹⁴⁷=2.15102x10¹²⁹ wormhole quanta every second from its ('Eternal Void Energy Potential' from Abstraction Space of the MATHIMATIA aka the Tetragrammaton I AM THAT I AM aka the pentagrammaton I AM THAT AM I) due to the expansion of the Omniverse from its protoversal seed into Eternity from its reciprocated Nulltime.

The 'Heartbeat' of the 'Mother Black Hole' AS the spacetimed protoversal seed for the Omniverse is defined in the Hubble Frequency as a 'Outbreath' semicycle to be followed by an 'Inbreath' semicycle, which technically is called the Nodal Hubble Constant defined by the 'speed of light' divided by the total extent of the Omniverse in 11 Dimensions as the 'Hubble Radius' or as H_o=c/R_Hubble=300,000,000/1.59767545x10²⁶=1.87772805x10^-18 cycles per cosmic second.}

6. The physical world is not an illusion, it is simply the physical world, the domain of conventional science.
{True! The 'Within' of the physically definable and parametrized universe in self-reference is also the 'Without' of the same physically definable cosmology. The two physical worlds of the 'inner world of the one' and the 'outer world of the many' is then bridged by the label of the metaphysics aka the 'spirit' aka the electromagnetopolar radiation, remaining independent from the physical definitions of mass and matter and antimatter etc.}

(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty." }

7. The physical world is not either physical or mental, it is both simultaneously. A dual.
{Correct, it is both in the famous Kitten of Erwin Schrödinger or Albert Einstein's Puppy of the Quantum Relativity.}

8. The principles of monads are given in Leibniz's "Monadology".
{One of many labels of semantics, which could be applied.}

9. The Monadology is thus a form of quantum mechanics, and contains uninvestigated possible new rules of quantum mechanics.
{Yes, the phenomenon actually describes a dyadic monad as a monadic dyad or a two-sidedness as a doubled one-sidedness topologically and a quantum geometry which can be fractalized holographically across a 12-dimensional superspace and can be visualised in the construction of a Möbius Strip and a Klein Bottle.}

10. In it, all causation is mental, not physical, and is top-down (cybernetic), from Plato's Mind.
{The causation is from the metaphysical to the physical indeed; albeit defined and characterised by a cosmic legislature, the so called 'Laws of Nature', applicaple to both without distinctions.}

11. Thus Mind controls the brain, not the reverse.
{The definition of 'Mind' depends on the parameters and variables of the phenomenon called Consciousness, which becomes a form of 'Space Awareness' thus defining the 'Cosmic Self'. As the defining qualities of cosmic consciousness engages the quantum properties of spin and angular acceleration acting upon any volume of definable space; it becomes the 'space occupied' by any cosmic intelligence or sentience, which then allows the 'source energy' or 'soul' to grow in experience and self-awareness in the accumulation of 'source energy quanta' or 'universal qualia'. The Mind so becomes the available recall Memory of a soul as a 'shard' of the creator-creation dyadic monad, characterised by the Einstein-Rosen bridge or wormhole in the macro White Hole-Black Hole and the micro supermembrane dyadic monad labelled as E_psE_ss.}

12. Life is mental, not physical, and so is part of all reality.
{Life is defined in the source energy induction of souls and so spans all of existence in the synthesis of a base physics with chemistry and biology evolving through time with utility of the space and so the environments encountered. The physical life becomes the soul experience in incarnation of particular cosmic identity states and apart from the soul in its disincarnate wave state, which can be said to be purely mental with the incarnation allowing the mental experience to become physicalized. and body sensory stimulated-sensational.
The cosmic agenda of all souls then becomes the simultaneous experience or hybridization of the incarnate self state with its disincarnate Eigen state and to so reform the dyadic monad of unity from its monadic dualism in separation.}

13. Life is nonphysical intelligence (Mind).
{An inadequate and vague definition. Whilst it can be said, for 'Intelligence' as the utility of the 'Mind' to be nonphysical; this intelligence is nevertheless associated with the soul and therefore all of Existence in its incarnate parts and experiences. Sentience therefore requires the physicality of space and time to gain and experience in consciousness for the purpose to enhance its accessible data banks or memory storage for the Mind to be usable as an organiser of the self- and other reference point aka the self- and mutual induction mechanisms relating to electric and magnetic components of the EMMR structure of the soul aka the 'Life Energy'.}

14. Gravity acts in the physical world, but it is mental, not physical, for there is no graviton.
{False! Gravity is one of four elementary gauge interactions, defining the physical fundamental wormhole structure of space and time and as a function of the 'Cosmic Consciousness' aka the 'Space Awareness' itself.
Gravitation as a 'long range' gauge force then must unify with the other three gauge interactions of 'long range' or infinite electromagnetism and with the two 'short range' weak and strong nuclear gauge interactions - the former in the macrocosmic winded stringform of the cosmic Yin or Mother and the latter in the microcosmic vibratory stringform of the cosmic Yang or Father.
The Graviton exists as a necessary double left-handed quantum spin agent to harmonize and unify the right-handed quantum spin couplings of the Source Photon of Electromagnetism and the Gluon of the strong nuclear interaction. The latter coupling the long-range gauge forces to the short-range nuclear forces in enabling the right-handed 'suppressed Weakon' of the weak nuclear gauge to couple with a left-handed 'Restmass Photon' of the Mind, and so adding a 5th 'Gauge Element' to the 'Unified Field of Quantum Relativity'.
The suppression of the massless weakon gauge then allows a mass introducing 'Higgs Boson' of zero spin to substitute the necessity for antimatter in the Omniverse.
This defines the origin of the monadic dyad from first principles in the coupling of antiradiation in lieu of antimatter to negate the requirement of mass at the beginnong of the cosmology from its cosmogony of the definition of the Super Energy.
The Quantum Big Bang emerged from a massless (Goldstone Bosonic) 'EMMR-Anti EMMR' aka a 'Spirit-AntiSpirit' scenario and not a mass original Matter-Antimatter mileu.
So before the Quantum Big Bang, but after Nulltime and in a so called 'Inflation Planck String Epoch' and when no mass yet existed, the AntiSpirit was coupled to the Spirit and the weakon gauge was not suppressed until the matter emerged in its homestead.}

15 Thus quantum gravity is not possible, because there is no physical graviton to correspond its possible monad, a quantum.
{This represents an erroneous statement as a non sequitur, because the Graviton does exist.
The Graviton is one of five necessary gauge interaction elementary 'corner stones' or cosmic building elements or blocks to construct all other geometries, such as subatoms (quarks and leptons), atoms, molecules, microscopic uni-cellulars like prokaryotes (crystals, bacteria and viruses) and subsequently multi-cellular organisms (eukaryotes) in processes of biochemistry and biophysicality described by endosymbiotic couplings and relationships.}

16. Mind creates all, and has created all from the nonphysical Nothing, perceives all, and controls all cybernetically.
{Correct! Provided, the correct definition of what 'Mind' is, namely a inertia independent energy bifurcating into two complementary forms of itself (as a soul) in the 'mind' and the 'body' or the 'spirit' and the 'flesh' is utilized in the emerging consequences and properties. 'Mind' as abstract spaceless and timeless 'Super Energy' then manifesting itself in physical associativity and is utilized to then derive the observed and experienced phenomena, both physical and metaphysical.}

17. Time and space are physical, but are not ultimately real, because the ultimate reality, Mind, is timeless and spaceless.
{False! Both time and space are real as the necessary dualism with respect to the original undivided non-unity of the eternal void. Time, in particular, carries the unique property amongst the fundamental physical units of mensuration {Mass, Displacement, Time, Molarity, Luminosity, Current and Temperature}, to be definable as 'Plato's Ideal State' and as the 'Pure Number' of Pythagoras.
The inverse property of time as Period of Cyclicity becomes Frequency f defined as the quantum form of angular velocity as f=w/2p. It can be shown how the timelessness and the spacelessness ergo the eternal void manifested the physicality of spacetime and timespace as an emergence from itself. Subsequently the emergence of the physicality must be as real or as unreal as the plenar self state this physicality emerged from. its own non-physicality. Both are as real or as unreal as each other and dependent on the realism and imaginations and dreams and fantasies of the observer occupying the space and time of the observed , sensed and measured.

(29) Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty." }.

--
Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (retired, 2000).
See my Leibniz site: https://rclough@verizon.academia.edu/RogerClough
For personal messages use rclough@verizon.net

(18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."

Last edited by shiloh on Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:57 am; edited 8 times in total

shiloh Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:23 am

shiloh

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Post n°13

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

shiloh Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:23 am

bobhardee Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:46 pm

bobhardee

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Post n°14

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

bobhardee Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:46 pm

11/17/2014

Shiloh: Great article(s) on science and religion.

Welcome back BB
Bob H

shiloh Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:29 am

shiloh

shiloh: Posts : 1050
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Post n°15

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

shiloh Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:29 am

bobhardee wrote:11/17/2014

Shiloh: Great article(s) on science and religion.

Welcome back BB
Bob H

orthodoxymoron wrote:

An Update for you, showing the correct description for the 'Many Worlds' models of both main stream cosmologists and 'alternative' quasi-scientific universe builders.
And indeed, it became the Maxwell Equations, which created the 'First Light' of the Genesis account in the 'Big Bang of Universal Creation'.
It was then, that the EMMR of the higher dimensional magneto charges (aka the gluon colour charge of the asymptotic nuclear quark-electron radius-weakon Higgs confinement in the nuclear interactions and Quantum Chromodynamics) became utilized in the inertia dependent ElectroMagnetic Radiation described by those Maxwell Field Equations with its interaction with mass, being associated with the 'Coulombic' electro charges.

In other, but related semantics; it was the 'God-Particle' of the E_ps high energy part of the 11-dimensional supermembrane, which disassociated in the lower dimensions from the 'Devil-Particle' related to the E_ss low and reciprocated energy part of this selfsame superstring of 10D extending itself in the manifesto of the first area space and allowing the concept of a 3D volume to take effect.
Thus became the creation of space and time in spacetimes and timespaces.
This cosmogenesis can also be allegorised and metaphored and archetyped in a grand original breaking of gauge symmetry, which then becomes the 'Fall of Lucifer' and the 'shattering of the Sephirots' of Ein Sof in say kabbalistic and biblical lore, so expressed in an alternative nomenclature and wordings, often encoded in divers alphabets and encipherments; including the universal languages of music and mathematics.

orthodoxymoron wrote:

B.B.Baghor wrote:Hey Orthodoxymoron, forgive me but I fell from my chair with laughing... noticing that, since I left the MoA and came back again, just this Sunday, that you're still not knowing if you're coming or going. Probably we won't find the last words of you yet.

Welcome back BB. Eschatology is no laughing matter -- but it's not the end of the world. Wait a minute. Yes it is. BTW -- I am so old and senile that I never really know if I'm coming or going!!

Plato's Dragon Science

IMPORTANT MESSAGE Imagesv5jdcub8-jpg

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Theoretical_Physics_Board/conversations/topics/14016;_ylc=X3oDMTJzbHBsbjRkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzc5MzgxMTgwBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzU0MTYzOARtc2dJZAMxNDAxNgRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxNDE2MjE0NjY1

Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:23 am (PST) . Posted by: "Roger Clough" rclough@verizon.net

How platonic physics helps discover, not invent, the universe

Sebastian Bach felt that he was discovering, not inventing or composing, music.
Discovering the laws or cosmology of music. This is a most platonic attitude. Like Mozart, Bach was just writing down what he heard.
Platonic physics and Leibniz's Monadology give a structured outline of the way things are.

http://multisenserealism.com/consciousness-problems-and-possible-solutions/books/notes-on-leibniz-monadology/

Life, according to platonic physics

Life, according to platonic physics, is simply intelligence, where intelligence is the autonomous free will (non-deterministic) ability to freely make choices.

Autonomous intelligence is necessary to survive. It enables even the bacterium to survive.
So life, free will (non-determinism), intelligence, Mind, non-physicality all go together.
Thus life was nonphysically present, as part of Mind, "before" the universe began, and is part of the intelligence of nature today.
Thus Leibniz believed that the universe itself, and everything in it, is alive.

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1. In the beginning, there was Nothing (Plato's One, or Mind) which is nonphysical (spaceless and timeless).
{In the Beginning was the Definition-Logos, and the Definition was with the Super Energy (Only Metaphysical/Abstract Before Physicality) and the Definition was the Energy (Physical And Metaphysical)!

John.1.1 -KJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.}

2. This Nothing that physicists speak of is nonphysical Mind, pure intelligence, awareness, and the capacity to do work.
{Correct! This statement requires definition of the labels used however. In particular the namings of 'Mind' and 'Awareness' and 'Work' demand definition in basic terms in logical self-consistency. Intelligence as the utility and application of the Mind then can become a consequence or derivative of the 'using of the mind' and the capacity to do work relates to the concept of Energy as the product of an applied Force utilized in an amount or region of Space.}

3. The One then simply conceived of or engendered Leibniz's Many (quanta or monads), in the Big Bang, creating a dual.
{Correct! In technical terminology the Infinite Nothingness aka the Eternal Void created its own Unity as a Oneness yet separated across a displacement or barrier or 'quantum tunnel' aka wormhole or 'firmament dividing heaven and earth' or 'abyss' or 'bottomless pit'.
The dual can be defined as a 11 dimensional super membrane of sourcesink and sinksource gauge string coupling on the quantum state of the microcosm, which macroquantises in a Einstein-Rosen Bridge or a White Hole - Black Hole duality and whose displacement of separation remains macro quantum entangled in the high energy-frequency vibratory sourcesink (as a 'Quasar') as power source for the sinksource (as a 'Black Hole') in its low energy and winded superstring complement or conjugative.}

4. The physical world is entirely made of matter, the physical correspondents to Leibniz's mental monads or quanta.
{Not true, as electromagnetic radiation or EMR is massless in its photonic gauge definition, but cannot exist independent of mass itself. All electromagnetic radiation, say radio waves, infrared, visble light, ultra violet, x-rays and gamma-atomic radiation are created by the acceleration of electric charges, which are ALWAYS mass associated in inertial particles like protons angularly accelerated in the interior and surface of the sun and stars. The quality of the 'mind particle' enables the 'higher dimensional' light to remain independent of mass however. This higher dimensional light then can be labelled as the 'spirit' and the basic constituent of the 'soul' and the 'spirit'. A more technical nomenclature renames this 'spirit' then as Electromagnetic Monopolar Radiation or EMMR and it is the EMMR, which can be defined as the dyadic monad of Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz and as the Infinitesimal of Isaac Newton in an appropriate definition of say the bifurcated multi-dimensional super membrane.}

5. Thus Mind, the mental correspondent to the physical world, is an infinite collection of monads (quanta).
{What is infinite is the Eternal Void, from which all existence derived from as a timeless and spaceless plenum. Thus the original Eternity was also the Nullstate without Unity. To manifest the potential for Unity or Oneness, the Void and the Eternity had to blend their undefinable qualities quantitatively and qualitatively and so the idea of the Number 1 was born. As the universe physical is finite, however able to expand eternally in a linear projection of circular or 'cycle quantum time'; the number of actual source energy quanta or monads can be counted as a summation of the wormhole quanta defining the physical singularity from which the so called Quantum Big Bang emerged in mathematical and logistical self consistency and under obeyance to all prior abstractly defined 'Laws of Nature'.
The formulation is simply the Volume of the spacially and time defined Omniverse divided by the volumar of the wormhole quanta as a Source Energy.

Using a calibrated Mean-Alignment-Time or MAT of say November 5th, 1996 at 00:00 +11UCT; this number of wormhole quanta is:
2p²R_Hubble³x(n/MAT=1.132419321...)/2p²R_wormhole³=8.04999159x10⁷⁹/7.95774715x10^-68=1.1455461x10¹⁴⁷ at MAT
and adding wormhole quanta every second from its ('Eternal Void Energy Potential' from Abstraction Space of the MATHIMATIA aka the Tetragrammaton I AM THAT I AM aka the pentagrammaton I AM THAT AM I) due to the expansion of the Omniverse from its protoversal seed into Eternity from its reciprocated Nulltime.

The volume of the universe calculates as a function of quantized time and space and as an effect of the frequency quantum of the cosmogenesis defining the wormhole Big Bang singularity.

V(t) =6p²c²∫t² dt for the integration interval from 'Big Bang Time' t=t_ps=1/f_ps to expansion time coordinate t=t.

V(t=t_ps) = 2p²c³{t³ - t_ps³ = 0 for the time quantum t_ps as the wormhole frequency f_ps

V(2t_ps) = 2p²c³{2³ - 1}t_ps³ as the first finite volume after time and space began.

V(3t_ps) = 2p³c³{2³ - 1}t_ps³ as the second such volume and defining the size of the universe for cycle time coordinate n=H_o(3t_ps) for generalised n=H_ot and dn/dt=H_o

V(nt_ps) = 2p²c³{n³ - 1}t_ps³ as generalisation for expansion time t=n/H_o

V(1)=V(3x10³⁰.t_ps) = 2p²c³{27x10⁹⁰ - 1}t_ps³ = 2p²l_ps³{27x10⁹⁰ - 1} because c=f_psl_ps and showing the quantization of the volume and size of the universe as a simple count of the unitary wormholes of frequency f_ps=1/t_ps=3x10³⁰ cycles per second for the universe being 1 second old.

2p²l_ps³ = {8p³}.2p²r_ps³ then defines the Number of wormholes at any expansion time t as:

N_Wormholes = c³t³/l_ps³ = {Lightpath X=ct}³/{Wormhole Perimeter}³ = {Wormhole Source Frequency x Expansion Time Coordinate}³ = {f_ps.t}³

Modular string-membrane duality defines: r_ps = l_ps/2p for r_ps = 1/r_ss = 2p/l_ps = 2pl_ss for {8p³} → 1

The expanding universe topologically and geometrically represents a 3D-Surface V₃=dV₄/dR=2p²R_Hubble³ from the toroidal Riemann sphere in multi dimensional hyperspace V₄=½p²R⁴.

The increase in wormhole quanta therefore multiplies the 2D reduction of the 3D surface area by lightspeed c to add a 'volume shell' for the volume added and integrated over the time parameters.

dV/dt=dV/dn.dn/dt = (6p²n²R_Hubble³).(H_o) with H_o=c/R_Hubble = l_ps.f_ps/R_Hubble for the scale ratio identity for the micro-macro quantization H_o/f_ps=n_ps=H_o.t_ps=l_ps/R_Hubble

For the Quantum Big Bang: t=t_ps and so N_Wormholes = {f_ps.t}³ ={f_ps/f_ps}³ = 1 as the wormhole unit for V(t_ps = 0 INFLATING l_ps to R_Hubble and the dimensionally reduced Volume V₃ = 2p²R_Hubble³ as the 11D boundary for the 10D asymptotic wormhole seedling to expand into. The expansion of the universe is both cyclic and asymptotic.
The 10D open hyperbolic and negatively curved topology describes a 'Seedling Protoverse' which asymptotically approaches but never reaches its 11-dimensional mirror boundary and a boundary which is itself expanding in a particular cyclicity of the wormhole evolution.
A massless 'Strominger Black Hole' oscillates in a 4 Trillion year 'recharge' cyclicity between the micro- and macro quantum self states.
This cyclicity is superposed onto the nodal cosmic frequency oscillations of the 'Heartbeat' of the universe at c-invariant lightspeed, one 'heartbeat' taking a full nodal oscillation of the 'Hubble Constant' varying in tandem with the Hubble Oscillation as the R_Hubble/wormhole oscillations and as the definition of dimensionless cycletime coordinate n_ps.

This scale oscillation differs from the Hubble Oscillation in terms of the Black Hole Schwarzschild metric of the curvature radius R_c=2G_oM_{Black Hole}/c² in the Mass difference between the 11D-Mother Black Hole and a Seedling 'Daughter Black Hole' known as the Sarkar Black Hole of supergalactic gravitational homogeneity further described in the 'dark energy' and 'dark matter' or 'missing mass' encountered in the cosmologies for a Euclidean flat universe of zero curvature.

In terms of the multi dimensional universe, this flatness is the consequence of the hyperbolic asymptotic cosmology being encompassed by a 11D closed spherical-ellipsoidal and positively curved topology of the 'Inflation Mirror' so producing the overall flatness as a consequence of the toroidal geometry of the Riemannian hypersphere. An observer at the center of a Horn- or Vortex Torus would experience the negatively curved space at the centre as a volume 2p²R_Hubble³=2pR_Hubble.pR² for radius r=R, but also experience its encompassment in a sphere of volume with radius r=2R and so a volume of 4p(2R)³/3 or 32pR³/3, being greater than the volume of the observable universe by a factor of 16/3p.
The convexity of the encompassing 'Omniverse' so cancels the Concavity of the lower dimensional 'Multiverse' in phaseshifted Universes, centred on the Protoversal Seedling Universe and not parallel as a Many World Multiverse.

The de Broglie Inflaton phase acceleration is given by a_dB=R_Hubble.f_ps² for the tachyon velocity v_dB=R_Hubble.f_ps for the general matter wave speed expression:
v_phase=(frequency).(wavelength)=(mc²/h).(h/mv_group)=c²/v_group > c for all v_group < c using E=hf=mc² for wave momentum mv_Group=h/l=hf/v_group

For the Quantum Big Bang: t=t_ps and so N_Wormholes = {f_ps.t}³ = {f_ps/f_ps}³ =1

For 1 second after creation: t=1 and so N_Wormholes = {f_ps.1}³ = {f_ps}³ = 2.7x10⁹¹

For the Hubble Node: t= 1/H_o and so N_Wormholes = {f_ps.t}³={f_ps/H_o}³ = {f_ps.R_Hubble/c}³ = {R_Hubble/l_ps}³ = 1/n_ps³ = {R_Hubble.10²²}³ = 4.078173...x10¹⁴⁴

For MAT-time: t= n_MAT/H_o and so N_Wormholes = {f_ps.t}³={f_ps.1.132419321./H_o}³ = 5.92226037...x10¹⁴⁴

For the present time: t= n_present/H_o and so N_Wormholes = {f_ps.t}³={f_ps.(t_MAT + 567,993,600)}³ = {f_ps.(6.030795167x10¹⁷)}³ = 5.92226039...x10¹⁴⁴
for n_Present = H_o{t_MAT + 567,993,600} = H_o{6.030795161...x10¹⁷ + 567,993,600} = H_o{6.030795167x10¹⁷} = 1.80923855x10²⁶/1.59767545x10²⁶ = 1.132419322

(As the time from November 5th, 1996 00:00+11UCT to November 5th, 2014 00:00+11UCT and as 18 civil years or 6574 civil mean solar days or approximately 6574x24x3600=567,993,600 seconds added to the Mean Alignment Time of the Dragon calibration)

The 'Heartbeat' of the 'Mother Black Hole' AS the spacetimed protoversal seed for the Omniverse is defined in the Hubble Frequency as a 'Outbreath' semicycle to be followed by an 'Inbreath' semicycle, which technically is called the Nodal Hubble Constant defined by the 'speed of light' divided by the total extent of the Omniverse in 11 Dimensions as the 'Hubble Radius' or as H_o=c/R_Hubble=300,000,000/1.59767545x10²⁶=1.87772805x10^-18 cycles per cosmic second.}

6. The physical world is not an illusion, it is simply the physical world, the domain of conventional science.
{True! The 'Within' of the physically definable and parametrized universe in self-reference is also the 'Without' of the same physically definable cosmology. The two physical worlds of the 'inner world of the one' and the 'outer world of the many' is then bridged by the label of the metaphysics aka the 'spirit' aka the electromagnetopolar radiation, remaining independent from the physical definitions of mass and matter and antimatter etc.}

(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty." }

7. The physical world is not either physical or mental, it is both simultaneously. A dual.
{Correct, it is both in the famous Kitten of Erwin Schrödinger or Albert Einstein's Puppy of the Quantum Relativity.}

8. The principles of monads are given in Leibniz's "Monadology".
{One of many labels of semantics, which could be applied.}

9. The Monadology is thus a form of quantum mechanics, and contains uninvestigated possible new rules of quantum mechanics.
{Yes, the phenomenon actually describes a dyadic monad as a monadic dyad or a two-sidedness as a doubled one-sidedness topologically and a quantum geometry which can be fractalized holographically across a 12-dimensional superspace and can be visualised in the construction of a Möbius Strip and a Klein Bottle.}

10. In it, all causation is mental, not physical, and is top-down (cybernetic), from Plato's Mind.
{The causation is from the metaphysical to the physical indeed; albeit defined and characterised by a cosmic legislature, the so called 'Laws of Nature', applicaple to both without distinctions.}

11. Thus Mind controls the brain, not the reverse.
{The definition of 'Mind' depends on the parameters and variables of the phenomenon called Consciousness, which becomes a form of 'Space Awareness' thus defining the 'Cosmic Self'. As the defining qualities of cosmic consciousness engages the quantum properties of spin and angular acceleration acting upon any volume of definable space; it becomes the 'space occupied' by any cosmic intelligence or sentience, which then allows the 'source energy' or 'soul' to grow in experience and self-awareness in the accumulation of 'source energy quanta' or 'universal qualia'. The Mind so becomes the available recall Memory of a soul as a 'shard' of the creator-creation dyadic monad, characterised by the Einstein-Rosen bridge or wormhole in the macro White Hole-Black Hole and the micro supermembrane dyadic monad labelled as E_psE_ss.}

12. Life is mental, not physical, and so is part of all reality.
{Life is defined in the source energy induction of souls and so spans all of existence in the synthesis of a base physics with chemistry and biology evolving through time with utility of the space and so the environments encountered. The physical life becomes the soul experience in incarnation of particular cosmic identity states and apart from the soul in its disincarnate wave state, which can be said to be purely mental with the incarnation allowing the mental experience to become physicalized. and body sensory stimulated-sensational.
The cosmic agenda of all souls then becomes the simultaneous experience or hybridization of the incarnate self state with its disincarnate Eigen state and to so reform the dyadic monad of unity from its monadic dualism in separation.}

13. Life is nonphysical intelligence (Mind).
{An inadequate and vague definition. Whilst it can be said, for 'Intelligence' as the utility of the 'Mind' to be nonphysical; this intelligence is nevertheless associated with the soul and therefore all of Existence in its incarnate parts and experiences. Sentience therefore requires the physicality of space and time to gain and experience in consciousness for the purpose to enhance its accessible data banks or memory storage for the Mind to be usable as an organiser of the self- and other reference point aka the self- and mutual induction mechanisms relating to electric and magnetic components of the EMMR structure of the soul aka the 'Life Energy'.}

14. Gravity acts in the physical world, but it is mental, not physical, for there is no graviton.
{False! Gravity is one of four elementary gauge interactions, defining the physical fundamental wormhole structure of space and time and as a function of the 'Cosmic Consciousness' aka the 'Space Awareness' itself.
Gravitation as a 'long range' gauge force then must unify with the other three gauge interactions of 'long range' or infinite electromagnetism and with the two 'short range' weak and strong nuclear gauge interactions - the former in the macrocosmic winded stringform of the cosmic Yin or Mother and the latter in the microcosmic vibratory stringform of the cosmic Yang or Father.
The Graviton exists as a necessary double left-handed quantum spin agent to harmonize and unify the right-handed quantum spin couplings of the Source Photon of Electromagnetism and the Gluon of the strong nuclear interaction. The latter coupling the long-range gauge forces to the short-range nuclear forces in enabling the right-handed 'suppressed Weakon' of the weak nuclear gauge to couple with a left-handed 'Restmass Photon' of the Mind, and so adding a 5th 'Gauge Element' to the 'Unified Field of Quantum Relativity'.
The suppression of the massless weakon gauge then allows a mass introducing 'Higgs Boson' of zero spin to substitute the necessity for antimatter in the Omniverse.
This defines the origin of the monadic dyad from first principles in the coupling of antiradiation in lieu of antimatter to negate the requirement of mass at the beginnong of the cosmology from its cosmogony of the definition of the Super Energy.
The Quantum Big Bang emerged from a massless (Goldstone Bosonic) 'EMMR-Anti EMMR' aka a 'Spirit-AntiSpirit' scenario and not a mass original Matter-Antimatter mileu.
So before the Quantum Big Bang, but after Nulltime and in a so called 'Inflation Planck String Epoch' and when no mass yet existed, the AntiSpirit was coupled to the Spirit and the weakon gauge was not suppressed until the matter emerged in its homestead.}

15 Thus quantum gravity is not possible, because there is no physical graviton to correspond its possible monad, a quantum.
{This represents an erroneous statement as a non sequitur, because the Graviton does exist.
The Graviton is one of five necessary gauge interaction elementary 'corner stones' or cosmic building elements or blocks to construct all other geometries, such as subatoms (quarks and leptons), atoms, molecules, microscopic uni-cellulars like prokaryotes (crystals, bacteria and viruses) and subsequently multi-cellular organisms (eukaryotes) in processes of biochemistry and biophysicality described by endosymbiotic couplings and relationships.}

16. Mind creates all, and has created all from the nonphysical Nothing, perceives all, and controls all cybernetically.
{Correct! Provided, the correct definition of what 'Mind' is, namely a inertia independent energy bifurcating into two complementary forms of itself (as a soul) in the 'mind' and the 'body' or the 'spirit' and the 'flesh' is utilized in the emerging consequences and properties. 'Mind' as abstract spaceless and timeless 'Super Energy' then manifesting itself in physical associativity and is utilized to then derive the observed and experienced phenomena, both physical and metaphysical.}

17. Time and space are physical, but are not ultimately real, because the ultimate reality, Mind, is timeless and spaceless.
{False! Both time and space are real as the necessary dualism with respect to the original undivided non-unity of the eternal void. Time, in particular, carries the unique property amongst the fundamental physical units of mensuration {Mass, Displacement, Time, Molarity, Luminosity, Current and Temperature}, to be definable as 'Plato's Ideal State' and as the 'Pure Number' of Pythagoras.
The inverse property of time as Period of Cyclicity becomes Frequency f defined as the quantum form of angular velocity as f=w/2p. It can be shown how the timelessness and the spacelessness ergo the eternal void manifested the physicality of spacetime and timespace as an emergence from itself. Subsequently the emergence of the physicality must be as real or as unreal as the plenar self state this physicality emerged from. its own non-physicality. Both are as real or as unreal as each other and dependent on the realism and imaginations and dreams and fantasies of the observer occupying the space and time of the observed , sensed and measured.

(29) Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty." }.

--
Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (retired, 2000).
See my Leibniz site: https://rclough@verizon.academia.edu/RogerClough
For personal messages use rclough@verizon.net

(18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."

Last edited by shiloh on Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:29 am; edited 3 times in total

B.B.Baghor Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:54 pm

B.B.Baghor

B.B.Baghor: Posts : 1851
Join date : 2014-01-31
Age : 73
Location : Druid county UK

Post n°16

Conversation of disciples and Jesus in Shilo's post

B.B.Baghor Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:54 pm

These little treasures of text in your post are great, Shilo. Thanks for that.
I like to go into it more and find the origin of these texts.
Specially this one I think is profound, it kind of hit me:

"(18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end?
For where the beginning is, there will the end be.
Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning;
he will know the end and will not experience death."

shiloh Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:15 pm

shiloh

shiloh: Posts : 1050
Join date : 2011-03-16
Age : 67
Location : Akbar Ra

Post n°17

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

shiloh Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:15 pm

B.B.Baghor wrote:These little treasures of text in your post are great, Shilo. Thanks for that.
I like to go into it more and find the origin of these texts.
Specially this one I think is profound, it kind of hit me:

"(18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end?
For where the beginning is, there will the end be.
Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning;
he will know the end and will not experience death."

Thank you BBB!

http://www.themistsofavalon.net/t7103-operation-scrambleweb

Posts #2 and #13 indicate the Nag Hammadi (Egypt 1946) sources for the Gospel of Thomas sayings.
Also here: http://www.birthofgaia.com/t101-the-gospel-of-thomas

This is a publically often dismissed 'apocryphal' 'Christian' source and is rather dissimilar from the other codices and scrolls found at Nag Hammadi. It is 'gnostic' only in its mysterious (to most) sayings, revolving about mirrors and images and its description of a 'cosmic bisexuality' or natural androgyny as a 'secret initiation' into a new world. It of course so relates to the 'alchemical wedding' and similar notions of esoteric philosophies and including the Sufi, the Kabbalist and the Western Alchemist and from whom much of the 'initiation rites' of 'secret illuminated' societies derived from.

The Gospel of Thomas or GOT is deeply related to the 'gnostic' Gospel of John, which emphasizes the nature and purpose of Jesus of Nazareth in lieu of the attempt of historicity as found in the other 3 synoptic gospels, It is also deeply interwoven with the Book of Hebrews, which many 'authorities' clearly and appropriately differentiate from the other Pauline letters.

Needless to say the global aristocracies and 'echeloners' of many persuasions are rather interested in the decoding of this 'Little Book' and in conjunction with more general 'prophecies' and 'sayings' such as those of Nostradamus, Mother Shipton, the bible and 'groups like the Rosicrucians, the Freemasons, Golden Dawn etc etc.
It is because some 'initiated' or 'privileged ones' know of the significance and potency regarding a thorough understanding of the 'sayings' in the Gospel of Thomas, that it is generally dismissed by religious historians and scholars as 'Buddhistic' or Zen based and as not too different from the other 'gnostic scripts'. The general populus is NOT invited to thoroughly consider the 'weird' sayings in this scroll and it takes a certain effort and curiosity to actually search for answers or even enquire about its meaning and content. It requires a 'calling of the soul' from the superconscious cosmic self to 'ask' certain questions.
As you have shown a kindled interest in it, I am describing a few things about it here.

The first reference will show you that an early dating and so contra indicating a general dismissal of the GOT as being composed in the 2nd century. The GOT was originally made manifest from 31-34 AD, perhaps in an obscured or occulted form, however in the same style it has been translated by certain scholars; some of whom having derived the conclusion regarding the much earlier dating of the GOT, say to 50AD. The GOT actually does represent the long sought Q-document (Q for the German word for Spring = Quelle).
There are frequent references to this 'Little Book', as it is also encoded in the Book of Revelation, unbeknown, but perhaps suspected by historians and theologians and other 'experts' and truth seekers here:

Revelation 10 - King James Version (KJV)

1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

GOT - Lambdin

(7) Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man."

This chapter of Revelation relates to this saying, found in the GOT and a saying which clearly refers to a 'Remembrance', known as the eucharist and as described in detail in the Gospel of John, chapters 14-17.

You can now look at the expert and amateur translations and interpretations of this saying and perhaps discern how 'off the track' and 'human mind misled' they are.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/gospelthomas7.html

This is an extended reference to a related 'story' linked to the GOT and mentioned in the Gnostic Library link;
you might be able to appreciate of addressing your cosmic and not your human self.

shiloh Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:33 am

shiloh

shiloh: Posts : 1050
Join date : 2011-03-16
Age : 67
Location : Akbar Ra

Post n°18

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

shiloh Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:33 am

B.B.Baghor wrote:These little treasures of text in your post are great, Shilo. Thanks for that.
I like to go into it more and find the origin of these texts.
Specially this one I think is profound, it kind of hit me:

"(18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end?
For where the beginning is, there will the end be.
Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning;
he will know the end and will not experience death."

HigherLove wrote:I do not think the words "thank you" aptly cover what you have done, here. Much gratitude.

We are here to help and to openly and freely share the information we believe we have become privvy to for the stated purpose.
So here then are some decoding indicators regarding the Gospel of Thomas.

The following message and question is from a StarMother, 'hiding' from herself and the Old Human World like are and do All Old Humans of the Yin sexual orientation, either or both internally manifested in the Body morphology and/or the mental perceptions of the self.

This message indicates the great evolutionary drama which is necessitated to resolve itself, before the Old Humanity can 'ascend-descend' as a New StarHumanity.
It is all about consciousness; not as some fancy word of the Cartesian Mind-Body Dualism or the unfathomable fantasies of 'spiritually' and 'religiously' inclind feeling and thinking people; BUT as a inherent structural component of the physical space of the universe itself.
Consciousness is part and parcel of space; a rock occupies space; it can be thrown in a bucket filled with water and its 'space' will dosplace the space previously occupied by the water in the bucket. So the water rises and the physics of the Archimedian Principle comes to the fore.

Now the rock is made of chemical substances like minerals, made of molecules and atoms, made of subatomic particles, made of wormhole quanta.
Each physically manifested object, including the so called lifeless ones, so occupies space and so possesses a Base-Consciousness calculable from the wormhole parameters of its common building block (like a 1 unit Lego say).
Even Electromagnetic Energy like Photons occupy space, albeit in a massless manner, due to their wavelengths; allowing henceforth to introduce a light-matter interaction between the massive-inertial and the massless-spped of light realms of the object-object interactions in the subjectivity of this encompassing spacial consciousness.

The rock is relatively static, it does not move about by itself, except acted upon by external forces, following the postulates of the Newtonian physics.
A microbe is said to be a 'living thing' and is able to move about searching for food and shelter in so termed 'survival modes'. The microbe too, however consists physically of the wormhole quanta.
Electricity and Light and Sound all are waveforms, which allow a continuous flow of energy to manifest a wavenature and a particle nature in say 'pushing electrons' along copper wires or vibrating air molecules to exhibit the flow of phonons as the sound proxy for the photons of light.
But the electrons and the phonons apparently are not as 'fixed' in the space they occupy as are the rock and the microbe. They are said to fluctuate between being like a continuous wave and a position fixed particle.

This is like a string on a guitar. When you pull such a string all of the string oscillates, making a sound, but the point where you pulled the string defines the propagation of the mechanical wave of the say metal string and the soundwave generated.
Then the space occupied by either stationary or moving object INTERACTS with the cosnssoiousness occupied by the moving things. If such a thing then is 'alive', its dynamical interaction with the background space is many times more complex, than that of say the rock.

It becomes a question of EXPERIENCE; the atoms of the rock vibrate very fast inside of the rock, but the overall stasis of the rock hides the rocks 'internal' consciousness as having grown as a crystal ir having been part of volcanic lava and so on.
This introduces evolutionary timearrows for all things in the universe.
A BASIC spacetime inherent consciousness defined in wormhole parameters, so communicates AS the basic cosmic consciousness of the stasis of the NONLIFE vwith that of the dynamcs of the LIFE.

What defines this being A-LIVE mirrored in EVIL-A=EVIL-Alpha=EVIL-Beginning?
It is the consciousness which was existent BEFORE the SPACE was born in the Quantum Big Bang following some intrinsic inflationary wavematter dynamics now being seen in the electric- and atmospheric and oceanic current flows.
This spacetime independent consciousness, subsequently and consequently manifesting in the cosmic consciousness in all of the spaces occupied, can be called the Logos Consciousness or the 'Word of GoddoG'.

The following passages of a certain scroll, shared in 32AD indicates the nature of this 'Thoth Akhenaton' =71 89=160=16=97=SERPENT=SONOFMAN=CIRCLEOFGOD=ANTHONY=AKHENATHON=PRESENT and as the Hermes Trismegistos of the Plumed Serpent of the Melchizedek of Kukulkan of Moses Isaiah of Quicksilvered Mercury.

Important note: Use the Coptic versions (Lambdin&Robinson) of the Gospel of Thomas (GOT) and not the edited 'modernised' ones, as the 'modernised' versions , just like the Christian OT/NT versions (use Old King James if possible) have been polluted to an extent of having become basically useless for the decoding appropriate in the warpzone period at hand.

Example:
Correct Coptic Version:
[7] Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man."

Incorrect Modernised Version:
[7] Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."

The Logos meaning is corrupted in the modernised version. The 'experts' could not make 'logical sense' of this saying about 'lions eating men' and 'men eating lions' as the true meaning of the 'Eucharist' as the 'Remembrance of the Last Supper' with Jesus being the 'Lion of Judah; Gen.49.8-12 and Rev.5.5 and so placing the emphasis on the lion becoming man in either the luckyness or in the curse of mankind, instead of drawing the distinction between the lion's blessedness of becoming human in the Eucharist.

Alter Altar of Babalon-Babylon, the LonE BabyDragon, shared by Ashera Barbelo

THE GOSPEL OF THOMAS

The Nag Hammadi Library
The Gnostic Society Library

Introduction
Lost for 1,600 years

In 1945, in an Egyptian cave near desert town of Nag Hammadi, 52 papyrus texts were discovered, some dating from the beginning of the Christian era, revealing a Jesus who teaching akin to a Shin myokonin, a Zen Master, or even Shakyamuni Buddha himself. Lost for 1,600 years, these are known as the Gnostic Gospels, from the Greek word "gnosis"...meaning "to know"...’to know oneself,” that is to have an insight into and awakened to oneself in an intuitive and non-dualistic sense.

Enlightenment for All

Exploring the Gospel of Thomas, we discover that Jesus believed the self and the divine to be identical and one. Furthermore, the Kingdom of Heaven is not in the future but is “right here.” and one only needs to be awakened to this perfection. Jesus, in this gospel, speaks of enlightenment, the same type that is taught by Shakyamuni Buddha, Shin teachers and Zen Masters. In addition, Thomas does not have a narrative story line but just 114 sayings attributed to Jesus, many of which are akin to Zen koans. Here, Jesus is never presented as Lord or Savior, but rather as a spiritual guide who is equal to his students.

The Exclusion of Thomas

Why was the Gospel of Thomas disqualified from the Christian Bible and eventually outlawed? During the reign of Emperor Constantine around the 4th century C.E., the Roman Empire was looking to reconstitute and solidify its power. The Emperor and the existing power structure chose the Pauline sect of Christianity as the “official” religion, which include the epistles of Paul and the Gospels and books from his disciples that form the present-day New Testament. Teachings from the Gospel of Thomas and other Nag Hammadi texts were seen as a danger to the developing ecclesiastical and political structure because they rejected the authority of the bishops, priests and deacons. Roman Church father Ignatius warned the Christians to "honor and obey the bishop as you would God." It is quite easy to see why the church councils did not choose the Gospel of Thomas and other similar texts for their Bible. As a result, for political reasons these texts were banned and later destroyed for the good of Empire and Church. After all, bishops and priests would lose their power and influence with the common people, if the common people learned that Jesus taught they did not need such religious authority/intermediaries of the Church, bishops and priests, and that the Kingdom is within all and is directly accessible to everyone without them; we all are sons/daughters of God.

These are the secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down.

Selection made from James M. Robinson, ed., The Nag Hammadi Library, revised edition. HarperCollins, San Francisco, 1990.
| Nag Hammadi Library | Gnostic Society Library | Gnosis Archive |

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm

Introduction: http://buddhistfaith.tripod.com/gospel/

Gospel of Thomas #7: from the Nag Hammadi Codex

This then directly relates to the Consciousness of the Cosmic Logos becoming blended with the human soul experience through the Individuated Logos.

[108] Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become like Me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will become revealed to him."

[77] Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the All. From Me did the All come forth, and unto Me did the All extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."

[39] Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of Knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to.
You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

And Nostradamian Quatrains in Century IX:
(the french names are allegories to general archetypes and symbols applicable on a global basis at all locations)

86
From Bourg-la-Reine they will come straight to Chartres,
And near Pont d'Antony they will pause:
Seven crafty as Martens for peace,
Paris closed by an army they will enter.

87
In the forest cleared of the Tuft,
By the hermitage will be placed the temple:
The Duke of Étampes through the ruse he invented
Will teach a lesson to the prelate of Montlhéry.

88
Calais, Arras, help to Thérouanne,
Peace and semblance the spy will simulate:
The soldiery of Savoy to descend by Roanne,
People who would end the rout deterred.

89
For seven years fortune will favor Philip,
He will beat down again the exertions of the Arabs:
Then at his noon perplexing contrary affair,
Young Ogmios will destroy his stronghold.

90
A captain of Great Germany
Will come to deliver through false help
To the King of Kings the support of Pannonia,
So that his revolt will cause a great flow of blood.

91
The horrible plague Perinthus and Nicopolis,
The Peninsula and Macedonia will it fall upon:
It will devastate Thessaly and Amphipolis,
An unknown evil, and from Anthony refusal.

92
The King will want to enter the new city,
Through its enemies they will come to subdue it:
Captive free falsely to speak and act,
King to be outside, he will keep far from the enemy.

So the so termed 'Logos/Christ Consciousness' represents the maximum potential for the spacetime 'unconsciousness' of the lifeless Universe born from the elemental heat of the Quantum Big Bang Creation event - the Cosmogenesis.

[82] Jesus said, "He who is near Me is near the fire, and he who is far from Me is far from the Kingdom."

The Starhuman Acolytes so are 'Living Consciousness Carriers' experiencing things on behalf of the 'Cosmic Father' and on behalf of their 'Cosmic Mother' through and by the Logos Potential inherent in themselves as their individualised Logi.

Only in 'eating' the Lion of the 'Logos Fire' burning within the 'Soul as the Energy of the LIFE', can the 'Serpent-Kundalini' Energy of the Logos be attained in one's intrinsically private and one-to-one communication and proxyness of the Individual Logos mirroring the Cosmic already ascended Cosmic Logos say the Melchizedek or the ThohT desiring to Descend again AS the embodiment of the THEN graduated and selfrealised Logos of the Individual.

[10] Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am guarding it until it blazes."

[11] Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

[13] Jesus said to His disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell me whom I am like."
Simon Peter said to Him, "You are like a righteous angel."
Matthew said to Him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
Thomas said to Him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom You are like."
Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated by the bubbling spring which I have measured out."
And He took him and withdrew and told him three things. When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"
Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."

[14] Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them.
For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

[16] Jesus said, "Men think, perhaps, that it is peace which I have come to cast upon the world. They do not know that it is dissension which I have come to cast upon the earth: fire, sword, and war. For there will be five in a house: three will be against two, and two against three, the father against the son, and the son against the father. And they will stand solitary."

[17] Jesus said, "I shall give you what no eye has seen and what no ear has heard and what no hand has touched and what has never occurred to the human mind."

[27] Jesus said, "If you do not fast as regards the world, you will not find the Kingdom. If you do not observe the Sabbath as a Sabbath, you will not see the Father."

{The sabbath=Mirror of Yourself in everything!}

[89] Jesus said, "Why do you wash the outside of the cup? Do you not realize that he who made he inside is the same one who made the outside?"

[90] Jesus said, "Come unto me, for My yoke is easy and My lordship is mild, and you will find repose for yourselves."

[70] Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."

This then represents the key for the Individual Logos attaining Cosmic Logos assimilation in the eating of the 'Lion'.

All old humans carry the creator-creation seed within themselves; but until they can release this seed; they will continue to be 'cursed' with the 'Lion' encompassing them as the 'Body of the Resurrection' aka the higher dimensional Universe World Logos Consciousness infused as a wavefunction manifest from the NOT collapsed particle function due to this 'resurrection'.

As this 'Supreme Consciousness' Morphology exists WITHIN space and time since the metamorphosis template of 31/32AD; this selfsame template can be Multiplied in the 'Sharing of this ThohTian Body-Merkabah' in individuaslised 'Second Comings' or Self-Redemptions, albeit utilizing the 'Resurrection template' as a 'Cosmic Consciousness Module'.
So without the acceptance of the World Logos, all old humans will remain 'cursed' and 'imprisoned' within the Body of the Resurrected Body of the Lion.

So what does this 'Body of the Cosmic Space Consciousness' entail?

It must couple to the individuated Logi in a kind of 'blending of the souls' and as stated in the GOT.

[108] Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become like Me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will become revealed to him."

In cosmological terms this reunites the FatherMother=Father Mother=HeShe SheHe in the Old AdamEve=Adam Eve=AdamEve EveAdam.
Therefore the saying: relating to 'Cosmic Man' Vitruvius (of Leonardo da Vinci), Purusha of the Vedas and Adam Kadmon of Kabbalah, all aspects of the Hermetica of Thoth:

[85] Jesus said, "Adam came into being from a great power and a great wealth, but he did not become worthy of you. For had he been worthy, he would not have experienced death."

IMPORTANT MESSAGE Pillar8-Thought-and-Art-Vitruvian-Man-Leonardo-da-Vinci

Now all old humans are like 'secret agents' for the Cosmic Logos and destined to blend with himher in the Melchizedek merkabah and depending on their individual agendas and commissions in their agendas.

The pertinent question is WHEN this will become happenstance in the individuated timelines of the Logos experiencing itself in the Father-Mother Duality of the Yang-Yin becoming the Monadic Unity of the YangYin YinYang so reforming the original FatherMother archetype in multiplicity.

This then is the purpose of this message.
Who can PIONEER the 'Homecoming' as either an actor or an actress or a director or a producer and as a playwright?
The audience, being entertained by the 'Logos Play' of the Exile and separation between Father-Mind-Wave and Mother-Particle-Body in the Plus-Minus Polarization; will by far outnumber the active participating entertainers.

And the Ones, who KNOW the gameplan are watching under many labels of extraterrestrial sentiences.

So what are the roles?

Everyone wishing to become a Logos Pioneer will be required to KNOW the Script and the Outline of the Story and everyone wishing to 'show the way', will be required to KNOW its part and the tools to be utilized.

So it is like a musician knowing his instrument.

You know what to do and how to play your musical instrument and so you can indeed entertain the Logos of your superconscious Higher selfhood with your spacetime endeavours.

But the NEW WORLD of the StarHuman is YangYin and no longer Yin OR Yang and so the pioneers and roleplayers will have to enter unknown ground and territory to be able to interact and communicate with the ETs.

The New Age proponents have misread the 'signs' just as have the skeptics and the 'fundamentalist believers'.

[51] His disciples said to Him, "When will the repose of the dead come about, and when will the new world come?"
He said to them, "What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it."

[113] His disciples said to Him, "When will the Kingdom come?"
Jesus said, "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'Here it is' or 'There it is.' Rather, the Kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

The New Agers in essence understand the interconnectedness of themselves with the Cosmos, say as 'Family of the Creator', but omany of them deny the uniqueness and requirement of the World Logos (under whatever label) encompassment. Many of them deny scriptures and religion as part of PTM agendas. All such 'players' cannot 'Eat the Lion or Swallow the Logos Fire". They will remain spectators, no matter what active 'leadership' roles they may entertain in the Old World of the 3D.

The Skeptics deny the immaterial reality of the 'unseen' as their own true images and so they will have the proverbial 'eggs and tomatoes on their faces' when the unseen things suddenly appear in the opening of the 4th spacial dimension of the hyperspace at the completion of the warptime and following the Gaian Pregnancy and the Incubation of the Old Human environment devouring Caterpillar to metamorphose into a StarHuman environment pollinating Butterfly.

[80] Jesus said, "He who has recognized the world has found the body, but he who has found the body is superior to the world."

[81] Jesus said, "Let him who has grown rich be king, and let him who possesses power renounce it."

[82] Jesus said, "He who is near Me is near the fire, and he who is far from Me is far from the Kingdom."

[83] Jesus said, "The images are manifest to man, but the light in them remains concealed in the image of the light of the Father. He will become manifest, but his image will remain concealed by his light."

[84] Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you rejoice. But when you see your images which came into being before you, and which neither die not become manifest, how much you will have to bear!"

The 'Fundamentalist Believers' got the thing, many New Agers got wrong, absolutely right.
They accept the Uniqueness of the Logos as their saviour figures for their redemptions. However they do not understand the meaning of the Lion and the Fire and their cocreative roles in ending the exile between Cosmic Father Creator and Cosmic Mother Creation and their kinship with their own saviours and redeemers and so have developed entire cultures and structures, where the blind lead and follow the blind.

[34] Jesus said, "If a blind man leads a blind man, they will both fall into a pit."

[39] Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of Knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to.
You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

[40] Jesus said, "A grapevine has been planted outside of the Father, but being unsound, it will be pulled up by its roots and destroyed."

[41] Jesus said, "Whoever has something in his hand will receive more, and whoever has nothing will be deprived of even the little he has."

[42] Jesus said, "Become passers-by."

[43] His disciples said to him, "Who are You, that You should say these things to us?"
Jesus said to them, "You do not realize who I am from what I say to you, but you have become like the Jews, for they either love the tree and hate its fruit or love the fruit and hate the tree."

So where are the REAL Pioneers, the ones who can HARMONIZE the polarity, often associated with the Right Solar Eye of Horus-Hathor as the leftbrained Intellectual Logic of the Logos-Yang AND the Left Lunar Eye of Horus-Uraeus as the rightbrained Intuitive Wisdom of the Logos-Yin?

The lonesome musician playing his guitar or his piano to entertain the cosmic audience with his spacetime nous CAN do so, because SheHe KNOWS hisher trade and instrument.

So the solar-lunar yang-yin parts of the say conventionally left-right brain modality is in harmony.

One cannot function well without he other. The musician would only make screeching discordant noise, should heshe not know and understand in male Knowledge or Science and in female Wisdom or Gnosis of how to pluck the guitar or press the piano keys.

So all the New Agers have a hard task at hand to 'harmonize' their merkabahs to magnify those 'vessels of geometry' to connect to theeir much greater merkabahs known as Spaceships and Starcruisers and such things; should they not 'Get The Yang Science' to manouver their 'space ships'.

One is required to learn how to 'drive a car' and a licence is ordinarily obtained to show competency.

Many New Agers believe that the ETs will simply hand out starships to them to become galactic travellers.

The ETs know that chaos would result amongst the stars as it has on their Cosmic Motherplanet planet Gaia., should they do so.

So unless one is 'born' as a prodigy in remembrance of say a previous incranational connection as a 'master composer' or musician; the acolyte aspiring musician will have to accompany herhis 'love of the instrument' with some hard mental work to learn the scripts, the notes and the way things are put together to create the Mathematical harmony all Music represents on the emergent level of its elements.

Many New Agers and Believers fail on this hurdle, due to their unwillingness to blend their Yang-Logos of the abstract logical thinking with their Yin-Logos of the intuitive dreaming and imagination modes.
The Skeptics, due to their reductionistic way of questioning and critisizing everything have a much easier task in this.

So then the letter from the StarMother following, exemplifies this state of the affairs.

I am well aware that it is not the 'fault' of the 'average planetary citizen' that only a small percentage of the populus is comfortable with abstract symbols and archetypes.

But like the Musician has to learn to 'Read the Notes of the Music' to become an effective Creator of the Harmonies; so will the status of the Starship drivers depend on how well they can harmonize their solar eyes with their lunar ones.
The excuse of inadequate education systems or of 'missed opportunities' or of 'forgetfulness about what was once learned and understood' does not hold any water in the New World to come.

Then the DreamTime of the Yin will become the RealityTime of the Yang in the Dreaming Realism of the Shehes and the Logical Reality of the Dreamtime of the Heshes.

Then the answer to the StarMother's question as to WHY WE SHOULD CARE: is because: IF you dont, then you will be part of the Audience watching the New World unfolding as spectators, instead of cocreating this selfsame Birth of the New Way of Thinking and Living from the Old Way of doing those things.

.... maybe you could describe in REGULAR words precisely what this "advanced science" is showing us and why it's important ... why it matters on a SPIRITUAL level ... why we should care.
IMPORTANT MESSAGE 854824

Tonyblue

Didymos --

do you think it might be possible for you to summarize the various components in this thread where you "wax eloquent" over the OmniScientific theories/explainations detailed above ??? i mean ... like could you just give us "lay people" like me some idea of the IMPLICATIONS of what you're saying with all this scientific-speak. i ASSUME from my skimming (avoiding anything that looked too brain-taxing!) that scientists are "discovering" some cool STUFF out there that corroborates and/or amplifies some of the "themes" you are fond of from a Thuban point of view ... so, if this assumption is correct ... maybe you could describe in REGULAR words precisely what this "advanced science" is showing us and why it's important ... why it matters on a SPIRITUAL level ... why we should care. IMPORTANT MESSAGE 854824

as one of your LEAST "scientifically minded" but most "perennially persistent" friends & followers ... HELP ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE 588986

thanks, didymos.

much love,

inanna kali

p.s. it's the SECOND part of the thread i'm referring to here, of course. i think i "got" the parts BEFORE "The Omniversal Hypershpere ..." it's at THAT point that my brain reserves became DEPLETED by the scientific jargon! LOL THANK You, Sir Didymos ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE 480315

http://www.themistsofavalon.net/t3886-understanding-the-gospel-of-thomas#64967

http://www.cosmosdawn.net/forum/index.php?threads/questions-and-answers-by-thuban.324/page-4#post-4016

Raven Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:45 pm

Raven

Raven: Posts : 513
Join date : 2010-04-10
Age : 57
Location : The Emerald City

Post n°19

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Raven Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:45 pm

"One's purpose of life is so to discover one's own Story and tell this Story to Oneself as a Function of Memory!"

http://cosmosdawn.net/forum/index.php?threads/first-imagine-it-then-image-it.157/

[1:43:50 PM] raxnae: xeia didn't put me up to it, I found the site from listening to this interview on gnosticwarrior http://gnosticwarrior.com/brent-paris-interview.html at the very end he mentioned it as being one of the academia illiuminati's sites, I just found it interesting and wanted to observe the dissection, I didn't speak much because I was observing and didn't want to speak from ignorance
[1:47:05 PM] raxnae: mostly I want to learn and gain an understanding, I want to be able to see the codes and understand them
[1:48:06 PM] Allisiam: yeah rax there is a lot of good information on that site, but it is wise to go in with discernment
[1:48:34 PM] Allisiam: the GOT unlocked a lot of it for me

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

[1:48:45 PM] Allisiam: why I like to quote it so much
[1:49:37 PM] Allisiam: to unlock the codes you have to see with Logos eyes
[1:49:44 PM] Allisiam: a bit hard to explain how to do this
[1:49:58 PM] Allisiam: because it requires submitting to it first

Gospel of Thomas wrote: (108) Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become like me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him."

[1:52:43 PM] Allisiam: this statement is one of the most profound to me in the GOT, but then understanding this truly goes much deeper, my understanding came in levels, like peeling back layers of an onion
[1:53:43 PM] raxnae: yes I'm very interested in understanding the GOT, I just haven't found what I am lacking yet
[1:54:02 PM] Allisiam:http://cosmosdawn.net/forum/index.php?threads/first-imagine-it-then-image-it.157/
[1:54:08 PM] Allisiam: this really helped me too
[1:54:34 PM] Allisiam: When I first read this it triggered a deep understanding in me
[1:54:56 PM] raxnae: reading now
[1:55:13 PM] Allisiam: and it was then that I realized that this story Tony was writing about was not just his story but a universal one
[2:00:13 PM] Allisiam: So in effect, Tony becomes another YOU, reflecting your and everyone else's story back to them. The story is not personal, and this is probably the hardest obstacle to overcome, the human mind gets in the way, call it your self-importance. When you loose this then a door opens.
[2:00:25 PM] Allisiam: and of course when it does others will perceive you as arrogant
[2:03:39 PM] Allisiam: this is part of the reason Jesus had such a terrible reception over 2000 years ago, not much has changed within the human mind and how it sees itself
[2:07:40 PM] Allisiam: this is because who you think you are is not who you really are, who you really are is genuine, who you think you are is a fake

Gospel of Thomas wrote: (3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

[2:09:32 PM] Allisiam: that imagine it then image it link I gave you goes into this GOT saying pretty well
[2:23:51 PM] raxnae: I've had experience with my no spacetime self before, when I had a manic break in reality I went through the void, but my memory of that time is fractured
[2:25:40 PM] raxnae: the napolean example hits home, I've felt archetypes embodied in myself, mostly from norse mythos
[2:26:16 PM] Allisiam: yes
[2:27:03 PM] Allisiam: so access becomes an act of imagination coupled with a surrendering to this higher knowledge or gnosis
[2:27:22 PM] Allisiam: we all have these memories
[2:28:02 PM] Allisiam: and the capacity to 'reflect'
[2:28:53 PM] raxnae: but how does one surrender to the True Logos and gain its sight?
[2:29:14 PM] Allisiam: it is incredible, I think I must of read just this one piece of Tony's work probably over 100 times and each time something new reveals itself
[2:29:46 PM] Allisiam: you become it
[2:30:14 PM] raxnae: is my personal story the fake story?
[2:30:31 PM] Allisiam: well it is not really a fake ok, it is a subplot
[2:30:39 PM] Allisiam: but it is not who you really are
[2:30:51 PM] Allisiam: so in that sense it is only a part of the whole story
[2:31:37 PM] raxnae: I've imagined and imaged myself in the no spacetime
[2:32:08 PM] Allisiam: have you looked through they eyes of Jesus?
[2:32:53 PM] raxnae: maybe, I've imagined looking through his eyes at many points in my life

Gospel of Thomas wrote: (77) Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the all. From me did the all come forth, and unto me did the all extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

[2:33:20 PM] Allisiam: these are his eyes
[2:34:04 PM] Allisiam: so you are infact looking through his eyes all the time
[2:34:51 PM] Allisiam: your consciousness is not confined to your body, to Raxnae
[2:35:06 PM] Allisiam: it is in all things
[2:35:14 PM] Allisiam: and yet it is nothing
[2:35:37 PM] raxnae: thats the way I described the void, everything and nothing
[2:35:52 PM] Allisiam: the void is one aspect yes
[2:36:49 PM] Allisiam: all possibilities exist there
[2:37:02 PM] raxnae: so I'm wondering, is the no spacetime merging with spacetime?
[2:37:04 PM] Allisiam: not all are actualized in 3-D
[2:37:32 PM] Allisiam: yes a bridge has been created
[2:38:35 PM] raxnae: so the subplot will become the whole story?
[2:38:49 PM] Allisiam: did you watch the kleinbottle video?
[2:38:54 PM] raxnae: yes
[2:39:00 PM] Allisiam: imagine yourself now as the intersection
[2:39:07 PM] Allisiam: embedded into reality
[2:39:13 PM] Allisiam: you are the bridge
[2:39:30 PM] Allisiam: your feeling mind and thinking heart and your ability to reflect
[2:40:12 PM] Allisiam: your very body is a ship that can fold space within it and without it
[2:40:56 PM] Allisiam: a vehicle that transports you through spacetime
[2:41:37 PM] Allisiam: it has a metaphysical twin that goes to the higher dimensions
[2:41:55 PM] Allisiam: and that twin is co-local with your own body
[2:42:33 PM] Allisiam: it exists inside and outside of it in nospacetime
[2:43:47 PM] raxnae: I can see how the human mindedness gets in the way
[2:43:56 PM] Allisiam: yes
[2:44:05 PM] Allisiam: it has a hard time 'encompassing' things
[2:45:09 PM] Allisiam: and it can only reflect upon itself in a mirror of vanity
[2:45:31 PM] Allisiam: instead of the real mirror of mirrors, the true Logos aka JCCJ
[2:45:53 PM] Allisiam: which we are all living inside of
[2:46:18 PM] Allisiam: so to get outside of that body requires a new set of eyes
[2:47:10 PM] Allisiam: very very few people know the real Jesus
[2:47:40 PM] Allisiam: if everyone knew there would be no more war
[2:47:43 PM] Allisiam: no more death
[2:47:52 PM] Allisiam: instantly
[2:48:10 PM] Allisiam: but his body on the inside is scattered
[2:48:34 PM] Allisiam: and trying to remember itself
[2:48:34 PM] raxnae: i often had wondered if the sacrifice was the end all be all sacrifice why there was still death
[2:49:10 PM] Allisiam: just as the Father required someone to remember him so too did Jesus
[2:50:09 PM] Allisiam: enough of us remember now that the story can continue in a new way
[2:50:41 PM] Allisiam: but time is very very different to the eternal self
[2:51:08 PM] Allisiam: the human mind can't see that far in advance
[2:51:13 PM] Allisiam: or into its own past
[2:52:39 PM] Allisiam: let alone change it
[2:52:45 PM] Allisiam: only the Logos can do that
[2:54:26 PM] Allisiam: and it is NOT an ego trip to see with those eyes but a great responsibility
[2:56:01 PM] raxnae: will we see the new story unfold in this lifetime?
[2:56:20 PM] Allisiam: you are now witnessing it
[2:56:50 PM] raxnae: I predicted a mental ragnarok in the human mind
[2:57:00 PM] raxnae: where all the old things would pass and be made new
[2:57:15 PM] Allisiam: yes mental armegeddon is happening now
[2:57:44 PM] Allisiam: but before things can become physical they must have a mental precursor see
[2:58:36 PM] Allisiam: and now you are seeing this mental Armageddon physicalize
[2:59:24 PM] raxnae: care to read three poems of mine?
[2:59:35 PM] Allisiam: maximum polarization has to happen before things will change
[2:59:59 PM] Allisiam: so humanity is going to be given a huge ass mirror upon which to reflect
[3:00:18 PM] Allisiam: sure rax, you know I love poetry
[3:00:52 PM] raxnae: http://raxnae.deviantart.com/art/Odin-s-Story-I-283050417?q=sort%3Atime%20gallery%3Araxnae&qo=35 http://raxnae.deviantart.com/art/Odin-s-Story-II-297228084?q=sort%3Atime%20gallery%3Araxnae&qo=34 http://raxnae.deviantart.com/art/Odin-s-Story-III-297504664
[3:02:55 PM] Allisiam:
Raxnae wrote: How did I grow so old, so forgetful of lying time,
Into the Breach Once Again, back to Zero reaching blindly into Dark,
Illusion and Distortion, as Eye is plucked Free,
Impaled to the World Tree, Watching as Midguard Burns.
[3:03:01 PM] Allisiam: omg these are good rax
[3:04:31 PM] Allisiam: yes I understand your suffering dear
[3:04:37 PM] Allisiam: you are both alive and dead
[3:04:59 PM] Allisiam: to recognize that whilst in a body is a splendid key
[3:06:31 PM] Allisiam:
Raxnae wrote IMPORTANT MESSAGE Clear

ossessed can No Longer Hide, Awaiting their Reset,
While the Grand Alliance is Set in Stone, To Defeat the Betrayer of us All,
Find your Keys, Unlock your Weapons,
Play your Music, From Ragnarok to Paradise.
[3:06:37 PM] Allisiam: do you know who the betrayer is?
[3:08:04 PM] raxnae: I called him Khronos
[3:08:18 PM] raxnae: theres another set of poems about that lol
[3:08:25 PM] Allisiam: it is actually much simpler than that
[3:08:28 PM] Allisiam: it is yourself
[3:08:37 PM] raxnae: yes lol
[3:08:40 PM] Allisiam: you are your own worst enemy
[3:08:51 PM] raxnae: ive got poems about that too
[3:08:53 PM] Allisiam: everyone is
[3:09:25 PM] Allisiam: yes your work is wonderful
[3:09:59 PM] Allisiam: you have a gift with words
[3:10:05 PM] Allisiam: and metaphors
[3:10:12 PM] Allisiam: the muse adores you
[3:10:22 PM] raxnae: it comes from my philosopher days haha
[3:10:36 PM] Allisiam: hehe
[3:10:53 PM] raxnae: when I first began to question if there was more to christanity than what they teach in churches
[3:11:19 PM] Allisiam: at least you questioned
[3:11:23 PM] Allisiam: many do not
[3:12:11 PM] Allisiam: are you on fb?
[3:12:26 PM] raxnae: I began thinking jesus was the most misrepresented person in history
[3:12:31 PM] raxnae: yes im on facebook
[3:12:35 PM] Allisiam: very much yes
[3:13:03 PM] Allisiam: how do I find you to add you?
[3:13:32 PM] raxnae: got a picture of a wolf as my pic
[3:13:55 PM] Allisiam: Loki?
[3:14:00 PM] raxnae: yes hehe
[3:15:47 PM] Allisiam: nice will I found you and added you, I see you accepted already lol
[3:15:55 PM] raxnae: I don't post much on there, last things I posted were some atheistic videos to poke fun at my hard core church friends
[3:16:25 PM] Allisiam: did you see Pat Condell's videos?
[3:16:34 PM] Allisiam: the ones Tony posted recently
[3:16:35 PM] raxnae: no I didn't

[3:19:25 PM] Allisiam:http://www.themistsofavalon.net/t5353p60-conversations-regarding-the-cosmic-changes-in-archetypes-and-symbols
[3:19:30 PM] Allisiam: some good stuff on that thread
[3:19:41 PM] Allisiam: you can find it all on spruz too, a huge 'library of illumination' there

http://cosmosdawn.com/

[3:19:53 PM] Allisiam: but watch those two videos
[3:32:36 PM] raxnae: lol brits have a way with words
[3:32:55 PM] Allisiam: hehe don't they
[3:33:06 PM] Allisiam: oh he has a ton more videos
[3:33:42 PM] Allisiam: but he is not trying to hide the dogma under fluff, calling it like he sees it
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html

something else for you to read raxnae and reflect on. There are other translations of course, but this one is pretty elegant and simple.
[9:38:59 PM] Allisiam: http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_sbj.htm

here is the main list with various scholars on it and their translations so you can compare.
[9:46:02 PM] raxnae: thanks
[9:47:09 PM] Allisiam: your welcome
[10:13:19 PM] Shiloh: Nice chat you had with rax
[10:13:43 PM] Allisiam: yeah I shared it on the forums
[10:14:15 PM] Allisiam: i just now added the apocryphon
[10:14:40 PM] Allisiam: i actually think rax is reading , studying
[10:14:42 PM] Shiloh: Excellent. I was thinking about sharing it
[10:14:54 PM] Shiloh: I am just now looking
[10:15:05 PM] Allisiam: i really feel that he is interested
[10:15:27 PM] Shiloh: yes he seems receptive and more mature
[10:15:56 PM] Allisiam: yes, i felt his true desire to know
[10:16:06 PM] Allisiam: so i said what i said to him
[10:16:45 PM] Allisiam: i was just re-reading the apocryphon myself
[10:16:58 PM] Shiloh: You did very well as a true stalwart for the Logos
[10:17:19 PM] Shiloh: yes post this too with your post
[10:17:28 PM] Shiloh:

It is a nice summary; though a number of clarifications and comments are necessary to align the 'Zoroastrian emphasis' and say the 'eternal place without redemption' as the 'unforgivable ignorance/sin and related and similar 'anti-physicality/desire' statements to the pre creation Logos, whom this 'appearance of the saviour' represents.
Even John.1.1-14 actually improves on much of the 'early gnostic' interpretative nous of the apocryphon. And of course, the GOT fully allows a thorough 'illumination' regarding the cosmic partnership between the 'flesh' and the 'spirit' in the solution of the quantum paradox and the dichotomization between the 'body and the mind' first defined by Descartes.

John 1:1-14 - King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Last edited by Raven on Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:56 pm; edited 4 times in total

Raven Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:50 pm

Raven

Raven: Posts : 513
Join date : 2010-04-10
Age : 57
Location : The Emerald City

Post n°20

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Raven Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:50 pm

The Secret Book of John

(The Apocryphon of John)
The Secret Book of John
Translated by Stevan Davies
This translation is presented in The Gnostic Society Library by exclusive permission of the author.
All rights including right of electronic reproduction are reserved by the author.
© 2005 Stevan Davies

Notes by the Translator
It has always seemed to me that the Secret Book of John evolved to be more difficult to read than it originally was. The Secret Book of John is a complex developmental mythology that has been made more complicated because, over the years, versions of it have been “improved” by several levels of scribal alteration. One set of levels is the evident addition of rather lengthy texts (a list of magical names, a dialogue on the soul, a providence hymn) to an original version that lacked them. Another set of levels is the addition by various scribes of what they intended to be useful comments, explanations, clarifications and supplementary details. The former processes continue to be added to the text when scholars such as myself add introductory paragraphs, or indeed whole book-length texts to introduce or comment on the Secret Book of John. The latter processes continue when scholars interrupt the flow of the text by adding subheadings (such as the section headings added here in Bold Italics) and notes intended to assist the reader’s understanding.

I believe that readers will benefit from seeing the various individual elements constituting the text as separable units and so be relieved from thinking that somehow all of this material constitutes one originally coherent whole. To this end, in this version of my translation I use two formatting techniques to identify and separate-out several forms of material that seem to have been added at different times to the original. For more extensive textual additions I have arranged that the translation make use of different color fonts. There is one font color for the main body of the Secret Book of John (font color 1), another for the material I believe to have been added by a Christian editor who sought to present the text as a long dialogue between Jesus and John son of Zebedee (font color 2); this material occurs in two large blocks at the beginning and toward the end of the text and also in occasional dialogues imbedded throughout the last half of the text. Another font (font color 3) distinguishes a long list of demons’ names that are associated with specific body parts, a magical text apparently taken from an unknown source called the "Book of Zoroaster". Another (font color 4) is used for the included dialogue about the soul. Finally a font (font color 5) designates the three part hymn spoken by God’s Providence (Pronoia).

In addition to these different fonts, I have put in square brackets the occasional short passages, or sentences, or phrases that I believe were added to the text by scribes over the years, additions that were intended to make the text more understandable, or to identify elements of the text with aspects of the Christian religion. If you ask how I know which parts were added as comments and so forth, the answer is that I make informed guesses. That’s really what most scholarship comes down to… informed guesses.
(Click here to purchase the print edition of The Secret Book of John, translated and annotated by Stevan Davies. Note that the print edition includes introductory material and an extensive line-by-line commentary on facing pages.)

Visit the Apocryphon of John Collection for more information

[The Teaching of the Savior]
The Revelation of the Mysteries Hidden in Silence
[Those Things that He Taught to John, His Disciple]

Prologue

One day John, the brother of James [these are the sons of Zebedee], was going up to the Temple. A Pharisee by the name of Arimanios came up to him and challenged him, asking: "Where is the teacher you used to follow?"
John replied, "He has gone back to the place from which he came."
The Pharisee said, "That Nazarene misled you (plural), told you lies, closed your hearts and turned you away from your ancestral traditions.”
When I heard these things, I, John, turned away from the temple and went off to a deserted mountainous place. I was very unhappy, saying to myself:
"How was the Savior designated?
Why did his Father send him into the world?
Who is his Father?
What kind of realm will we go to?
For, although he told us, ‘This realm is modeled on the imperishable realm,’
He didn't teach us about the latter.”
All of a sudden, while I was contemplating these things,
Behold!
The heavens opened and the whole of creation shone with a light from above,
And the world quaked!
I was afraid, yet
Behold!
A little child appeared before me in the light.
I continued looking at him as he became an old man
And then he changed again, becoming like a young man.
I didn't understand what I was seeing,
But the one likeness had several forms in the light,
And these likenesses appeared each through the other
And the vision had three forms.
He said to me,
“John, why doubt?
Why be afraid?
Don’t you know this image?
Be not afraid.
I am with you (plural) always.
I am the Father
The Mother
The Son
I am the incorruptible
Purity.
I have come to teach you
About what is
And what was
And what will be
In order for you to understand
The invisible world
And the world that is visible
And the immovable race of perfect humanity.
Raise your head;
Understand my lessons;
Share them with any others who have received the spirit,
Who are from the immovable race of perfect humanity.”

The Inexpressible One

The One rules all. Nothing has authority over it.
It is the God.
It is Father of everything,
Holy One
The invisible one over everything.
It is uncontaminated
Pure light no eye can bear to look within.
The One is the Invisible Spirit.
It is not right to think of it as a God or as like God.
It is more than just God.
Nothing is above it.
Nothing rules it.
Since everything exists within it
It does not exist within anything.
Since it is not dependent on anything
It is eternal.
It is absolutely complete and so needs nothing.
It is utterly perfect
Light.
The One is without boundaries
Nothing exists outside of it to border it
The One cannot be investigated
Nothing exists apart from it to investigate it
The One cannot be measured
Nothing exists external to it to measure it
The One cannot be seen
For no one can envision it
The One is eternal
For it exists forever
The One is inconceivable
For no one can comprehend it
The One is indescribable
For no one can put any words to it.
The One is infinite light
Purity
Holiness
Stainless,
The One is incomprehensible
Perfectly free from corruption.
Not “perfect”
Not “blessed”
Not “divine”
But superior to such concepts.
Neither physical nor unphysical
Neither immense nor infinitesimal
It is impossible to specify in quantity or quality
For it is beyond knowledge.
The One is not a being among other beings
It is vastly superior
But it is not “superior.”
It is outside of realms of being and time
For whatever is within realms of being was created
And whatever is within time had time allotted to it
The One receives nothing from anything.
It simply apprehends itself in its own perfect light
The One is majestic.
The One is measureless majesty
Chief of all Realms
Producing all realms
Light
Producing light
Life
Producing life
Blessedness
Producing blessedness
Knowledge
Producing knowledge
Good
Producing goodness
Mercy
Producing mercy
Generous
Producing generosity
[It does not “possess” these things.]
It gives forth light beyond measure, beyond comprehension.
[What can I say?]
His realm is eternal, peaceful, silent, resting, before everything.
He is the head of every realm sustaining each of them through goodness.

The Origin of Reality

[We would know nothing of the ineffable
And nothing of the immeasurable
Without the help of the one who comes forth
from the One who is the Father.
He alone has informed us.]
The Father is surrounded by light.
He apprehends himself in that light
[which is the pure spring of the water of life
that sustains all realms].
He is conscious of his image everywhere around him,
Perceiving his image in this spring of Spirit
Pouring forth from himself.
He is enamored of the image he sees in the light-water,
The spring of pure light-water enveloping him.
His self-aware thought (ennoia) came into being.
Appearing to him in the effulgence of his light.
She stood before him.
This, then, is the first of the powers, prior to everything.
Arising out of the mind of the Father
The Providence (pronoia) of everything.
Her light reflects His light.
She is from His image in His light
Perfect in power
Image of the invisible perfect Virgin Spirit.
She is the initial power
glory of Barbelo
glorious among the realms
glory of revelation
She gave glory to the Virgin Spirit
She praised Him
For she arose from Him.
[This, the first Thought, is the Spirit’s image]
She is the universal womb
She is before everything
She is:
Mother-Father
First Man
Holy Spirit
Thrice Male
Thrice Powerful
Thrice Named
Androgynous eternal realm
First to arise among the invisible realms.
She, Barbelo, asked the virgin Spirit for foreknowledge (prognosis).
The Spirit agreed.
Foreknowledge came forth and stood by Providence
[This one came through the Invisible Virgin Spirit’s Thought.]
Foreknowledge gave glory to the Spirit
And to Barbelo, the Spirit’s perfect power,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.

Primary Structures of the Divine Mind

She, Barbelo, asked the virgin Spirit for Incorruptibility
The Spirit agreed.
Incorruptibility came forth and stood by Thought and Foreknowledge.
Incorruptibility gave glory to the Invisible Virgin Spirit
And to Barbelo,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.
She asked for everlasting Life.
The Spirit agreed
Everlasting life came forth and they all stood together.
They gave glory to the invisible Spirit
And to Barbelo,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.
She asked for Truth.
The Spirit agreed
Truth came forth and they all stood together.
They gave glory to the invisible Spirit
And to Barbelo,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.
This is the fivefold realm of the Father:
The First Man who is
The Image of the Invisible Spirit who is
Providence who is
Barbelo who is
Thought.
And
Foreknowledge - Incorruptibility - Life Everlasting - Truth
[These are an androgynous fivefold realm - therefore it is a realm of ten - of the Father.]

Secondary Structures of the Divine Mind

The Father looked into Barbelo
[into the pure light surrounding the Invisible Spirit]
Barbelo conceived and bore a spark of light
Who had blessedness similar to, but not equal to, her blessedness,
Who was the only child of that mother–father
The only offspring,
The only begotten child of the pure light, the Father.
The Invisible Virgin Spirit celebrated the light that had been produced
Coming forth from the first power who is
The Providence
Barbelo
The Spirit anointed him with Goodness, making him perfect
[he lacked no goodness whatsoever,
for he was anointed with the Invisible Spirit’s Goodness]
He stood in the Spirit’s presence and it was poured upon him.
Having received this anointing from the Spirit he immediately glorified Him
And he glorified the perfect Providence.
Because of Her he had come into being.
He asked for Mind (nous) to be a companion to him.
The Spirit consented
When the Invisible Spirit consented
Mind came into being.
It stood by the Anointed
and glorified the Spirit and Barbelo
[These beings came into existence through silence and thought.]
He wished to act through the Word of the Invisible Spirit.
Whose Will became an action and appeared with Mind
Glorifying the Light.
And then Word followed Will into being.
[The Christ, the divine autogenes,
created everything through the Word.]
Everlasting Life and Will,
Mind, and Foreknowledge
Stood together.
They glorified the Invisible Spirit and Barbelo.
Because of Her they had come into being.

Tertiary Structures of the Divine Mind

The Holy Spirit
Brought his and Barbelo’s divine autogenes Son to completion
In order that he could stand before the great Invisible Virgin Spirit
As the divine autogenes Christ
And honor Him with a mighty voice.
[The Son came through Providence].
The Invisible Spirit
Placed the divine autogenes over everything.
All authorities were subordinated to him.
The truth within him let him learn everything
[He is called by the highest name of all.
That name will be told only to those who are worthy to hear it
From the light, [which is the Christ,]
From the incorruptibility,
Through a gift of the spirit
The Four Lights arising from the divine autogenes stood before him.
[The four fundamental powers are Understanding, Grace, Perception, and Consideration.]
Grace exists within the realm of the Light called Harmozel, the first angel.
Along with Harmozel are
Grace
Truth
Form
The second Light is called Oriel and it stands over the second realm.
With Oriel are:
Conceptualization (Epinoia)
Perception
Memory
The third Light is called Daveithai and it stands over the third realm.
With Daveithai are:
Understanding
Love
Idea
The fourth Light is called Eleleth and it stands over the fourth realm.
With Eleleth are:
Perfection
Peace
Wisdom (Sophia).
These are the four lights standing before the divine autogenes.
Twelve realms stand before the Son of the Powerful
The autogenes
The Christ
Through the intention
And the grace
Of the Invisible Spirit
Twelve realms belong to the Son of the autogenes.
[All of this came into being through the intention of the Holy Spirit
Through the autogenes.]
From the perfect mind’s foreknowledge
Through the intention of the Invisible Spirit
And the autogenes’s will.
The perfect human appeared,
Its first true manifestation
The Virgin Spirit named the human Adamas
And placed him over the first realm with the mighty autogenes Christ
With the first Light Harmozel and its powers.
The Invisible One gave Adamas invincible power of mind.
Adamas spoke, glorifying and praising the Invisible Spirit:
“Everything has come into being from you
Everything will return to you.
I will praise you and glorify you
And the Autogenes
And the triple realm:
Father – Mother – Son,
the perfect power.”
Over the second realm was appointed Adamas’s son Seth
With the second Light Oriel.
In the third realm were placed the children of Seth
With the third Light Daveithai.
[The souls of the saints are placed there.]
In the fourth realm were placed the souls of those ignorant of the fullness
Those who did not repent at once
But who, after some time, eventually repented,
They are with the fourth Light Eleleth.
All of these created beings glorify the Invisible Spirit

A Crisis that Became the World

It happened that the realm (aeon) Wisdom (Sophia)
Of conceptual thought (Epinoia),
Began to think for herself,
She used the thinking (enthymesis)
And the foreknowledge (prognosis)
Of the Invisible Spirit.
She intended to reveal an image from herself
To do so without the consent of the Spirit,
Who did not approve,
Without the thoughtful assistance of her masculine counterpart,
Who did not approve.
Without the Invisible Spirit’s consent
Without the knowledge of her partner
She brought it into being.
Because she had unconquerable Power
Her thought was not unproductive.
Something imperfect came out of her
Different in appearance from her.
Because she had created it without her masculine counterpart
She gave rise to a misshapen being unlike herself.
Sophia saw what her desire produced.
It changed into the form of a dragon with a lion’s head
And eyes flashing lightning bolts.
She cast him far from her,
Outside of the realm of the immortal beings
So that they could not see him.
[She had created him in ignorance.]
Sophia surrounded him with a brilliant cloud,
Put a throne in the center part of the cloud
So that no one would see it.
[Except for the Holy Spirit called the Mother of the Living]
She named him Yaldabaoth.
Yaldabaoth is the chief ruler.
He took great Power (dynamis) from his mother,
Left her, and moved away from his birthplace.
He assumed command,
Created realms for himself
With a brilliant flame that continues to exist even now.

The Fashioning of This World

Yadabaoth united with the thoughtlessness (aponoia) within him.
He begot ruling authorities (exousia)
Modeling them on the incorruptible realms above.
The first is Athoth
The second is Harmas [called the eye of flame]
The third is Kalilaumbri
The fourth is Yabel
The fifth is Adonaiu [called Sabaoth]
The sixth is Cain [called the sun]
The seventh is Abel
The eighth is Abrisene
The ninth is Yobel
The tenth is Armupiel
The eleventh is Melcheir-adonein
The twelfth is Belias
Who rules over the very depth of Hades.

He made the first seven rulers to reign in the seven spheres of heaven.
He made the next five rulers to reign in the five depths of the abyss.

He shared a portion of his fire with them,
But shared none of the power of Light he had received from his mother.
[He is ignorant darkness.
When the Light mingled into the darkness
the darkness shone.
When darkness mixed with the Light,
the Light diminished,
No longer Light nor darkness but dim.]
This dim ruler has three names:
Yaldabaoth is the first.
Saklas is the second.
Samael is the third.
He is blasphemous through his thoughtlessness.
He said “I am God, and there is no God but me!”
Since he didn’t know where his own Power originated.
His rulers created seven Authorities for themselves.
Each of these Authorities created six demons apiece,
There came to be 365 demons altogether.
Here are the seven Authorities’ names and physical forms:
First, Athoth with a sheep’s face
Second, Eloaios with a donkey’s face
Third, Astaphaios with a hyena’s face
Fourth, Yao with the face of a seven headed snake
Fifth, Sabaoth who has the face of a dragon
Sixth, Adonin whose face is that of a monkey
Seventh, Sabbataios with a face of flame and fire.
These are the seven of the week.
These Authorities rule the world.
Yaldabaoth has many faces.
More than all that have been listed
So he can convey any face he wants to the seraphim around him.
Yaldabaoth shared his fire with his seraphim
But gave them none of his pure Light
Although he ruled them by virtue of the power and glory
Of the Light had received from his Mother.
[Therefore he called himself “God” and defied his place of origin.]
He united his thought’s sevenfold Powers with the Authorities who accompanied him.
He spoke and it happened.
He named those sevenfold Powers starting with the highest one:
Goodness paired with the first: Athoth
Providence paired with the second: Eloaios
Divinity paired with the third: Astaphaios
Lordship paired with the fourth: Yao
Kingdom paired with the fifth: Sabaoth
Zeal paired with the sixth: Adonin
Understanding paired with the seventh: Sabbataios
Each has its own realm modeled on one of the higher realms.
And each new name refers to a glory in the heavens
So that Yaldabaoth’s demons might be destroyed.
The demons’ own names, given by Yaldabaoth, are mighty names
But the Powers’ names reflecting the glory above
Will bring about the demons’ destruction and remove their Power.
That is why each has two names.
Yaldabaoth modeled his creation
On the pattern of the original realms above him
So that it might be just like the indestructible realms.

[Not that he had ever seen the indestructible ones.
Rather, the power in him, deriving from his mother,
made him aware of the pattern of the cosmos above.]
When he gazed upon his creation surrounding him
He said to his host of demons
The ones who had come forth out of him:
“I am a jealous God and there is no God but me!”
[But by doing this he admitted to his demons that there is indeed another God.
For, if there were no other God, whom would he possibly be jealous of?]
His mother began to move back and forth
Because she had become aware that she now lacked Light
For her brightness had dimmed.
[Since her consort had not approved of her actions, she grew darker]

[I said “Master, what does it mean ‘she moved back and forth’?”
He laughed, saying, “It’s not as Moses said ‘upon the waters.’ Not at all.”]

When she saw the evil that had taken place and
The theft of light that her son had committed
She repented.
In the darkness of ignorance
She began to forget.
She began to be ashamed.
But she could not yet return above
Yet she began to move.
And so she moved back and forth.
[The arrogant one removed Power from his mother
For he was ignorant
He thought no one existed except for his mother.
He saw the host of demons he had created
And he elevated himself above them.
But when the mother realized that that miscarriage
Was so imperfect
She came to realize that her consort had not approved.
She repented and wept furiously.]
All of the divine realms (pleroma) heard her repentant prayer
They sought blessing for her from the Invisible Virgin Spirit.
The Spirit consented.
He poured the Holy Spirit over her
Brought forth from the whole full realm.
[Her consort did not come down to her on his own,
but he came through the whole full realm
to restore her to her original condition.]
She was elevated above her son,
But she was not restored to her own original realm.
She would remain in the ninth sphere until she was fully restored.

Humanity Begins

Then came a voice from the highest realms saying:
“The Man exists! And the Son of Man!”
Yaldabaoth, chief ruler, heard it
He thought it came from his mother
He did not know the true source of the voice:
The Holy Mother-Father
Perfect Providence
Image of the Invisible
Father of Everything
In whom everything has come to be.
The First Man
[This is the one who appeared to them.
He appeared in the form of a human being.]
All of the realm of the chief ruler quaked!
The foundations of the abyss moved!
He illuminated the waters above the world of matter,
His image shown in those waters.
All the demons and the first ruler together gazed up
Toward the underside of the newly shining waters.
Through that light they saw the Image in the waters.

Yaldabaoth said to his subordinate demons:
“Let’s create a man according to the image of God
And our own likeness
So that his image will illuminate us.”
Each one through another’s Power created aspects of the man;
Each added a characteristic corresponding to the psychic factors
They had seen in the Image above them.
They made a creature of substance
In the likeness of that perfect First Man
And they said, “Let us call him Adam, so that his name will give us the power of light.”

Construction of the Human Body

The seven Powers began to work:
. Goodness made a psyche of bone
Providence made a psyche of sinew
Divinity made a psyche of flesh
Lordship made a psyche of marrow
Kingdom made a psyche of blood
Zeal made a psyche of skin
Understanding made a psyche of hair
The host of demons took these substances from the Powers to create the limbs and the body itself. They put the parts together and coordinated them.

The first ones began by making the head: Abron created his head; Meniggesstroeth created the brain; Asterechme the right eye; Thaspomocha, the left eye; Ieronumos, the right ear; Bissoum, the left ear; Akioreim, the nose; Banenrphroum, the lips; Amen, the front teeth; Ibikan, the molars; Basiliademe, the tonsils; Achcha, the uvula; Adaban, the neck; Chaaman, the neckbones; Dearcho, the throat; Tebar, the shoulder; Mniarcon, the elbow; Abitrion, the right arm; Evanthen, the left arm; Krys, the right hand; Beluai, the left hand; Treneu, the fingers of the right hand; Balbel, the fingers of the left hand; Kriman, fingernails; Astrops, the right breast; Barroph, the left breast; Baoum, the right shoulder joint; Ararim, the left shoulder joint; Areche, the belly; Phthave, the navel; Senaphim, the abdomen; Arachethopi, the right ribs; Zabedo, the left ribs; Barias, the right hip; Phnouth the left hip; Abenlenarchei, the marrow; Chnoumeninorin, the skeleton; Gesole, the stomach; Agromauna, the heart; Bano, the lungs; Sostrapal, the liver; Anesimalar, the spleen; Thopithro, the intestines; Biblo, the kidneys; Roeror, the sinews; Taphreo, the spine; Ipouspoboba, the veins; Bineborin, the arteries; Atoimenpsephei, respiration; Entholleia, the flesh; Bedouk, the right buttock; Arabeei, the penis; Eilo, the testicles; Sorma, the genitals; Gormakaiochlabar, the right thigh; Nebrith, the left thigh; Pserem, the kidneys of the right leg; Asaklas, the left kidney; Ormaoth, the right leg; Emenun, the left leg; Knyx, the right shin; Tupelon, the left shin; Achiel, the right knee; Phnene, the left knee; Phiouthrom, the right foot; Boabel, its toes; Trachoun, the left foot; Phikna, its toes; Miamai, the toenails.

And those who were appointed over all of these are:
Zathoth,
Armas,
Kalila,
Iabel,
Sabaoth,
Cain,
Abel.
The energizing powers in the limbs were divided among:
the head made by Diolimodraza; the neck by Yammeax; the right shoulder Yakouib; the left shoulder Verton; the right hand Oudidi; the left Arbao; the fingers of the right hand Lampno; the fingers of the left hand Leekaphar; the right breast Barbar; the left breast Imae; the chest Pisandriaptes; the right shoulder joint Koade; the left shoulder joint Odeor; the right ribs Asphixix; the left ribs Synogchouta; the abdomen Arouph; the womb Sabalo; the right thigh Charcharb; the left thigh Chthaon; the genitals Bathinoth; the right leg Choux; the left leg Charcha; the right shin Aroer; the left shin Toechtha; the right knee Aol; the left knee Charaner; the right foot Bastan; its toes Archentechtha; the left foot Marephnounth; its toes Abrana.
Seven govern the whole body:
Michael,
Ouriel,
Asmenedas,
Saphasatoel,
Aarmouriam,
Richram,
Amiorps.
The one who governs perceptions: Archendekta
The one who governs reception: Deitharbathas
The one who governs imagination: Oummaa
The one who governs integration: Aachiaram
The one who governs impulse: Riaramnacho.

There is a fourfold source of the bodily demons:
Hot, Cold, Dry, Wet.
[Matter is the mother of them all.]
Ruler of hot: Phloxopha
Ruler of cold: Oroorrothos
Ruler of dry: Erimacho
Ruler of wet: Athuro.
Their mother stands among them: Onorthochrasaei
She is unlimited
She mixes with all of them.
She is matter
And they are nourished by her.
The four chief demons are:
Ephememphi, associated with pleasure,
Yoko, associated with desire,
Nenentophni, associated with distress,
Blaomen, associated with fear.
Their mother is Esthesis-Zouch-Epi-Ptoe.
Out from these four demons come passions:
From distress arises
Envy, jealousy, grief, vexation,
Discord, cruelty, worry, mourning.
From pleasure comes much evil
And unmerited pride,
And so forth.
From desire comes
Anger, fury, bitterness, outrage, dissatisfaction
And so forth.
From fear emerges
Horror, flattery, suffering, and shame.
[Their thought and truth is Anayo, the ruler of the material soul.
It belongs with the seven senses, Esthesis-Zouch-Epi-Ptoe.]
This is the total number of the demons: 365
They worked together to complete, part by part, the psychical and the material body.
There are even more of them in charge of other passions
That I didn’t tell you about.
If you want to know about them
You will find the information in the Book of Zoroaster.

All of Yaldabaoth’s servants and his demons
Worked to finish the psychic body.
For a very long time it lay inanimate
It did not move.
Yaldabaoth’s mother wanted to take back the Power
She had turned over to the Chief Ruler.
She earnestly asked the most merciful,
The Mother-Father of everything,
For help.

Yaldabaoth Deceived

By His sacred command He sent down the five Lights
In the forms of the principal advisors to Yaldabaoth.
[This led to the removal of Yaldabaoth’s mother’s divine Power from him.]
They told Yaldabaoth:
“Blow some of your Spirit in the man’s face,
Then his body will rise up.”
Yaldabaoth blew some of his Spirit into the man.
That Spirit was the divine Power of his mother.
[He didn’t understand what was happening, for he lived in ignorance.]
His mother’s divine Power left Yaldabaoth
It entered the psychic human body
Modeled on the primordial image.
The human body moved!
It grew powerful!
It shone!
Yaldabaoth’s demonic forces envied the man.
Through their united efforts he had come into being
They had given their Power to him.
His understanding was far greater than that of those who had created him.
And greater than that of the Chief Ruler himself.
When they realized that he shone with light
And could think better than they could
And was naked of evil,
They took him and cast him down
Into the lowest depths of the material world.

The Beginning of Salvation

The blessed one.
The Mother-Father
The good merciful one
Looked compassionately upon the Mother’s Power
Relinquished by the Chief Ruler.
Since Yaldabaoth’s demons might again overpower the perceptible psychic body
He sent down from his good Spirit a helper for Adam,
Out of his great compassion
A light-filled Epinoia emerged.
And he called her Life (Zoe).
She aids the entire creation
Working with him
Restoring him to the fullness.
She taught Adam about the way his people had descended
She taught Adam about the way he could ascend,
Which is the way he had descended.
The light-filled Epinoia was hidden in Adam.
So that the rulers wouldn’t know about her
For Epinoia would repair the disaster their mother had caused.
[Adam was revealed because within him dwelt the shadow of light.
His mental abilities were far greater than those of his creators.
They had gazed upward and seen his exalted mental capability.]
The host of rulers and demons plotted together
They mixed fire and earth and water
Together with four blazing winds
They melded them together in great turbulence.
Adam was brought into the shadow of death.
They intended to make him anew
This time from
Earth,
Water,
Fire,
Wind,
Which are
Matter,
Darkness,
Desire,
The Artificial Spirit.
This all became a tomb,
A new kind of body.
Those thieves bound the man in it,
Enchained him in forgetfulness,
Made him subject to dying.
[His was the first descent
And the first separation.
Yet the light-filled Epinoia within him will elevate his thinking.]

Adam in Yaldabaoth's Paradise

The rulers took the man and put him into paradise
They told him to eat freely.
[Their food is bitter; their beauty is corrupt.
Their food is deceit; their trees are ungodliness.
Their fruit is poison.
Their promise is death.]
They placed the Tree of Their Life into the middle of paradise.
Its root is bitter
Its branches are dead.
Its shadow is hatred
Its leaves are deception
The nectar of wickedness is in its blossoms.
Its fruit is death
Its seed is desire
It flowers in the darkness.
Those who eat from it are denizens of Hades
Darkness is their resting place.
As for the tree called “The Knowledge Of Good And Evil”
It is the Epinoia of the light.
They commanded him not to eat from it,
Standing in front to conceal it,
For fear that he might look upwards to the fullness
And know the nakedness of his indecency.

[However, I caused them to eat.
I asked the Savior,
“Lord, isn’t it the serpent that caused Adam to eat?”

He smiled and replied,
“The serpent caused them to eat
in order to produce the wickedness of the desire to reproduce
that would make Adam helpful to him.”]

The chief ruler, Yaldabaoth, knew that
Because the light-filled Epinoia within Adam
Made his mental abilities greater than his own,
Adam had been disobedient.
In order to recover the Power that he had put into Adam
Yaldabaoth made Adam completely forgetful.

Woman Comes into Being

The light-filled Epinoia hid deep within Adam.
The Chief Ruler tried to remove her from his ribcage,
But Epinoia cannot be captured.
Although the darkness pursued her it did not catch her.
The Chief ruler did remove a portion of his Power from Adam
To create a person with a woman’s form
Modeled on the light-filled Epinoia that had been manifested to him.
He placed the Power removed from the man into the woman.

[It did not happen the way Moses said it did:
“he took a rib and made the woman.”]

Adam saw the woman standing next to him.
The light-filled Epinoia immediately appeared to him
She raised up the veil that dulled his mind.
He sobered up from the dark drunkenness
And he recognized his own counterpart.
He said: “This is bone from my bones
Flesh from my flesh.”
Because of this a man will leave his mother and father
And be joined to a woman and those two will become one flesh.
For they will send his helper to him.
[Sophia, our sister, came down
Descending innocently
So as to regain what she had lost.
Therefore she was called Life.
The Mother of the Living
The one from the Providence of the Authority of Heaven
By her assistance people can achieve perfect knowledge.]
I appeared as an eagle perched on the Tree of Knowledge!
[Which is the Epinoia from the pure Providence of Light.]
In order to teach them
And raise them up from sleep’s depths.
[For the two of them were fallen and aware of their nakedness.
Epinoia appeared as a being full of light
She enlightened their minds.]
When Yaldabaoth discovered that they had moved away from him
He cursed his earth.
He located the woman as she was preparing herself for her man.
He gave the woman over so that the man might be her master,
Because he did not know the secret of the divine strategy.
The man and woman were too terrified to renounce Yaldabaoth,
Who showed his ignorance to his angels
And he cast both of them out of paradise
Dressing them in heavy darkness.

The Chief Archon saw the young woman who was standing by Adam.
He realized that the light-filled Epinoia of life was within her.
Yaldabaoth became completely ignorant.
[When the Providence of all saw what was going to happen
She sent assistants to remove Divine Life from Eve.]
Yaldabaoth raped Eve.
She bore two sons.
[Elohim was the name of the first.
Yahweh was the name of the second.
Elohim has a bear’s face.
Yahweh has a cat’s face.
One is righteous;
One is not.
Yahweh is righteous;
Elohim is not.
Yahweh would command fire and wind
Elohim would command water and earth.]
Yaldabaoth deceptively named the two: Cain and Abel.
[From then until now sexual intercourse has persisted
Thanks to the Chief Ruler
Who put desire for reproduction into the woman who accompanies Adam.
Through intercourse the Ruler caused new human bodies to be produced
And he blew his artificial spirit into each of them.]
Yaldabaoth installed the two with authority over natural elements
So they can to rule over the tomb.

The Children of Seth Populate the World

Adam had intercourse with the image of his foreknowledge (prognosis)
He begot a son like the Son of Man
And he called that son Seth
Modeling him on the heavenly race in the higher realms.
In the same way the mother sent down her spirit
The image of herself
A model of the full higher realm,
In order to prepare a place for the descent of the realms.
The Chief Ruler, though, forced the humans to drink
From waters of forgetfulness
So that they might not know their true place of origin.
The children (of Seth) remained in this condition for a while
In order that when the Spirit descends from the holy realms
The Spirit can raise up the children and heal them from all defects
And thus restore complete holiness to the fullness of God.

Six Questions about the Soul

I asked the Savior, “Lord, will every soul be saved and enter the pure light?”
He replied, “You are asking an important question, one it will be impossible to answer for anyone who is not a member of the unmoved race. They are the people upon whom the Spirit of Life will descend and the power will enable them to be saved and to become perfect and worthy of greatness. They expunge evil from themselves and they will care nothing for wickedness, wanting only that which is not corrupt. They will achieve freedom from rage, envy, jealousy, desire, or craving.”
“The physical body will negatively effect them. They wear it as they look forward to the time when they will meet up with those who will remove it. Those people deserve indestructible eternal life. They endure everything, bearing up under everything that happens so that they can deserve the good and inherit life eternal.”
Then I asked him, “Lord, what about the souls who didn’t do these things even though the Spirit of Life’s power descended on them?“
He answered, “If the Spirit descends to people they will be transformed and saved. The power descends on everyone and, without it, no one can even stand up. After they are born, if the Spirit of Life increases in them, power comes to them and their souls are strengthened. Nothing then can leave them astray into wickedness. But if the artificial spirit comes into people, it leads them astray.”
Then I said, “Lord, when souls come out of the flesh where do they go?”
He replied, smiling, “If the soul is strong it has more of power than it has of the artificial spirit and so it flees from wickedness. With the assistance of the Incorruptible One that soul is saved and it attains eternal rest.”
I then asked him, “Lord, what of the souls of the people who do not know whose people they are? Where do they go?”
He responded, “In those people the artificial spirit has grown strong and they have gone astray. Their souls are burdened, drawn to wickedness, and cast into forgetfulness.”
“When they come forth from the body, such a soul is given over to the powers created by the rulers, bound in chains, and cast into prison again. Around and around it goes until it manages to become free from forgetfulness through knowledge. And so, eventually, it becomes perfect and is saved.”
Then I asked, “Lord, how does the soul shrink down so as to be able to enter its mother or a man?
He was happy that I asked this and said, “You are truly blessed because you have understood. The soul should be guided by another within whom is the Spirit of Life. It will be saved by that means and accordingly will not have to enter a body again.
And I said, “Lord, what happens to the souls of people who achieved true knowledge, but who turned away from it?”
He said to me, “Demons of poverty will take them to a place where there is no possibility of repentance. There they will stay until the time when those who blasphemed against the spirit will be tortured and subjected to punishment forever.”
I asked, “Lord, where did the artificial spirit come from?”
And he told me:

Three Plots against Humanity

The Mother-Father is merciful
A Holy Spirit sympathizing with us.
Through the Epinoia of the Providence of the light
It raises up the children of the perfect race
Raising up their thought, their light eternal.
When the Chief Archon learned that they were elevated above him
And that their mental ability surpassed his
He wanted to put a stop to their thought
But he did not know the extent of their mental superiority
And he could not stop them.
He made a plan with his demons
Who are his powers
Each of them fornicated with Wisdom (Sophia)
And produced fate
The last variety of imprisonment.

Fate changes unpredictably
It is of different sorts just as the demons are of different sorts.
Fate is hard.
Fate is stronger than
The gods, the authorities, the demons, the generations of people
Who are caught up in it.
Out of fate emerged
Sinfulness, violence, blasphemy, forgetfulness, ignorance,
Weighty commandments
Heavy sins
Terrible fear.
In this way all of creation became blind,
Ignorant of God above everything.
Because of imprisonment in forgetfulness
They are unaware of their sins,
They are bound into periods of time and seasons
By fate who is lord of it all.
Yaldabaoth eventually came to regret everything he had created.
He decided to bring a great flood
Upon creation, upon mankind.
But the great light of Providence warned Noah.
He preached to all of the children,
The sons of men,
But if they were strangers to him they didn’t listen.

[It was not the way Moses said: “they hid in an ark.”
Rather, they hid in a special place,
Not just Noah
but also many other people from the immovable race.
They went into hiding within a cloud of light.]

Noah knew his own authority
And that of the light Being who illuminated them
Although the Chief Ruler poured darkness over all the world.
The Chief Ruler and his powers plotted a strategy,
To send his demons to human daughters
And make themselves children by them to enjoy.
But they failed.
After their failure they made another plan.
They created an artificial spirit
Modeled on the Spirit who descended
So, to impregnate souls by means of this spirit,
The demons changed appearance
to look like the women’s husbands
They filled the women with that spirit of darkness and wickedness.
They brought into being
Gold and silver,
Money and coins,
Iron and other metals and all things of this sort.
And the people who were attracted were led astray into troubles
And were greatly misled.
And grew old
Experiencing no pleasure,
And died
Finding no truth,
Never knowing the true God.
This is the way that they enslaved all of creation
From the foundation of the world until now.
[They took some women and produced children out of darkness
And they closed their hearts
And they hardened themselves
in the hardness of their artificial spirit
Until the present day.]

The Providence Hymn

I am the Providence of everything.
I became like my own human children.
I existed from the first.
I walked down every possible road.
I am the wealth of the light.
I am the remembering of the fullness.
I walked into the place of greatest darkness and on down.
I entered the central part of the prison.
The foundations of chaos quaked.
I hid because of their evil.
They did not recognize me.
I came down a second time
continuing on.
I emerged from among those of light
I am the remembering of Providence
I entered the middle of darkness,
The inner part of the underworld
To pursue my mission.
The foundations of chaos quaked.
Threatening to collapse upon all who were there
And utterly destroy them
I soared upward again
To my roots in light
So as not to destroy them all yet.
I descended a third time.
I am light
I am dwelling in light
I am the remembering of Providence
I entered the midst of darkness
I came to the deepest part of the underworld.
I let my face light up
Thinking of the end of their time
I entered their prison
The body is that prison
I cried out:
“Anyone who hears,
Rise up from your deep sleep!”
And the sleeping one awoke and wept
Wiping bitter tears saying
“Who calls me?”
“Where has my hope come from
As I lie in the depths of this prison?”
“I am the Providence of pure light,” I replied,
“I am the thought of the Virgin Spirit
Raising you up to an honored place.
Rise up!
Remember what you have heard.
Trace back your roots
To me.
The merciful one.
Guard against the poverty demons.
Guard against the chaos demons.
Guard against all who would bind you.
Awaken!
Stay awake!
Rise out of the depths of the underworld!
I raised him up
I sealed him with the light/water of the five seals.
Death had no power over him ever again.
I ascend again to the perfect realm.
I completed everything and you have heard it.”

Conclusion

“I have told you everything now so that you can write it all down
And share it with your fellow spirits secretly
For this is the mystery of the unmoved race.”

The Savior gave all of this to him to write and to keep carefully. He said to him, “Anyone who exchanges it for a present, or for food, or for drink, or for clothing, or for anything else of that sort will be cursed.”

These things came to John in a mystery.
Instantly the Savior vanished.
John came to his fellow disciples and told them what the Savior had said to him.

Jesus the Christ.
Amen.

The Apocryphon of John

© 2005 by Stevan Davies
This translation is presented in the Gnostic Society Library by exclusive permission of the author.
All rights including right of electronic reproduction are reserved by the author.

shiloh Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:08 pm

shiloh

shiloh: Posts : 1050
Join date : 2011-03-16
Age : 67
Location : Akbar Ra

Post n°21

Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE

shiloh Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:08 pm

Raven wrote:

IMPORTANT MESSAGE 15194-b35a6a39d211544c6dbcfb187ad73343

(The Apocryphon of John)
The Secret Book of John

Translated by Stevan Davies
This translation is presented in The Gnostic Society Library by exclusive permission of the author.
All rights including right of electronic reproduction are reserved by the author.
© 2005 Stevan Davies

Notes by the Translator
It has always seemed to me that the Secret Book of John evolved to be more difficult to read than it originally was. The Secret Book of John is a complex developmental mythology that has been made more complicated because, over the years, versions of it have been “improved” by several levels of scribal alteration. One set of levels is the evident addition of rather lengthy texts (a list of magical names, a dialogue on the soul, a providence hymn) to an original version that lacked them. Another set of levels is the addition by various scribes of what they intended to be useful comments, explanations, clarifications and supplementary details. The former processes continue to be added to the text when scholars such as myself add introductory paragraphs, or indeed whole book-length texts to introduce or comment on the Secret Book of John. The latter processes continue when scholars interrupt the flow of the text by adding subheadings (such as the section headings added here in Bold Italics) and notes intended to assist the reader’s understanding.

I believe that readers will benefit from seeing the various individual elements constituting the text as separable units and so be relieved from thinking that somehow all of this material constitutes one originally coherent whole. To this end, in this version of my translation I use two formatting techniques to identify and separate-out several forms of material that seem to have been added at different times to the original. For more extensive textual additions I have arranged that the translation make use of different color fonts. There is one font color for the main body of the Secret Book of John (font color 1), another for the material I believe to have been added by a Christian editor who sought to present the text as a long dialogue between Jesus and John son of Zebedee (font color 2); this material occurs in two large blocks at the beginning and toward the end of the text and also in occasional dialogues imbedded throughout the last half of the text. Another font (font color 3) distinguishes a long list of demons’ names that are associated with specific body parts, a magical text apparently taken from an unknown source called the "Book of Zoroaster". Another (font color 4) is used for the included dialogue about the soul. Finally a font (font color 5) designates the three part hymn spoken by God’s Providence (Pronoia).

In addition to these different fonts, I have put in square brackets the occasional short passages, or sentences, or phrases that I believe were added to the text by scribes over the years, additions that were intended to make the text more understandable, or to identify elements of the text with aspects of the Christian religion. If you ask how I know which parts were added as comments and so forth, the answer is that I make informed guesses. That’s really what most scholarship comes down to… informed guesses.
(Click here to purchase the print edition of The Secret Book of John, translated and annotated by Stevan Davies. Note that the print edition includes introductory material and an extensive line-by-line commentary on facing pages.)

Visit the Apocryphon of John Collection for more information

The Teaching of the Savior
The Revelation of the Mysteries Hidden in Silence
Those Things that He Taught to John, His Disciple]

.......

[1:15:32 PM - Tuesday, August 12th, 2014 +10UCT] Shiloh: This 'xtian apologetics preview' regarding the Noah film is rather interesting and fits the present timeline to a marker. It shows how the human mind has become polarised. Thuban informants know of course how the Hollywood genre about the 'illuminati' subject matter has become itself only partially 'elucidated'.

[1:18:55 PM] Shiloh: So, whilst this 'biblical fundamentalist' does discern the kabbalistic-freemason-ptb origin of those so called 'secret societies', he fails to perceive the original stories and creation mythologies underpinning all such accounts and including say the 'flood myths' of all human cultures and historical memories; say as indicated (but not thoroughly revealed) in the apocryphon and the GOT

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/11/robin-williams-dead-dies_n_5670050.html

[9:30:51 AM] Sirius 17: Robin Williams has died, they think it may of been suicide
[9:31:58 AM] Sirius 17: I loved him, what a tragedy
[9:39:05 AM] Sirius 17: he is in the real movie now of what dreams may come

Robin McLaurin Williams --- {July 21, 1951; Chicago, Illinois, U.S. --- August 11, 2014 (aged 63); Marin County, California, U.S.}

[1:57:21 PM] raxnae: I thought that the director implemented the Book of Enoch elements into it such as the Watchers
[2:04:13 PM] Shiloh: The Book of Enoch of Hurtak is VERY overrated
[2:04:32 PM] Shiloh: It is rather nabsey
[2:05:42 PM] Shiloh: perhaps 80% of all the so called 'esoteric' info on youtube and the www is nabs rax and should be approached with discernment salts
[2:06:00 PM] raxnae: yes I've noticed haha
[2:06:32 PM] Shiloh: Here with nabs I mean a percentage of partial truth and verifiable information and a much larger amount of pure human minded speculations and fantasies
[2:07:04 PM] Shiloh: Take Terrence McKenna for example and someone I respect
[2:08:44 PM] Shiloh: Yet, his 'Enochian realisations' derived from psychedelic altered states of awareness and so whilst a greater proportion of this 'higer D data' has value in my assessment, this derives from the fact, that Terence was in fact a rational sort of fellow with a good analytic and reasoning mind
[2:10:12 PM] raxnae: i see
[2:10:35 PM] Shiloh: The Hurtak material is also from a 'higher D' dream state and like so many similar ideas (say Urantia Book, Mormons, Theosophy, Crowley etc), all have very human egocentric interpretations interwoven and depending on personal experiences and educational backgrounds
[2:11:20 PM] Shiloh: My approach is to dismiss nothing at all, but to evaluate all data in terms of a cosmic and nonhuman perspective.
[2:11:41 PM] Shiloh: In this way you can clearly see what is of a cosmic agenda and what is human mind limited
[2:15:02 PM] Shiloh: A cosmic agenda is one, which is like an observer mode, which WATCHES this planet and is not at all engaged in its internal disputes on any personal-national-religious-alternative agenda
[2:15:42 PM] raxnae: neutral observation
[2:16:02 PM] Shiloh: It is like you standing in front of a canvas and thinking or imagining things and subject matter to paint as the creator of a painting or 'work of art'
[2:16:28 PM] Shiloh: But then the colours and hues are there ready to be placed onto the canvas
[2:17:02 PM] Shiloh: the difference is that this canvas or 'chess game' has the pieces moving by itself with a certain degree of self determinations
[2:17:36 PM] Shiloh: So the dynamic chess game becomes the world affairs of the human planetary civilization or culture
[2:18:39 PM] Shiloh: Making a movie is another allegory. You give the actors scripts, but allow a certain amount of improvisations
[2:20:00 PM] Shiloh: Nabsers call this co-creation, without realising that directors and producers of the new movie are required. Everyone so is in fact a co-creator, but like with having a particular license of improvisation, though being required to follow some overarching guidelines or 'cosmic laws'.
And the director and producer can indeed call a halt to the 'free licenses' of the co-creating, should this cocreating deviate too much from the cosmic plan and agenda in a 'humanisation' or more planetary human egocentric determination.
And it is my informed assessment, that the 'free licences' of the human co-creating have reached a certain plateau of cosmic ineffectiveness and so a special kind of 'cosmic interference', which is both from within and from without the human quarantine zone is now becoming implemented, say in a decade from 2007 to 2012 to 2017 and derived from particular timeline codes such as 'jubilees' and the 'generations of mankind'

[2:40:25 PM] raxnae: mankind needs all the help it can get haha
[2:42:46 PM] Sirius 17: nice post you made to clarify Tony
[2:43:26 PM] Sirius 17: speaking of 'movies' we just got back from watching Edge of Tomorrow
[2:43:47 PM] Sirius 17: Tom Cruise in an end of the world invasion ground hog day
[2:44:30 PM] Sirius 17: at least the producers of this film saw that these so called ET's had the capabilities to change time
[2:44:45 PM] Sirius 17: er manipulate it rather
[2:45:08 PM] Sirius 17: they would just keep running the same day over until they had the 'enemy' figured out
[2:46:04 PM] Sirius 17: but if you killed one of the 'blue' ones and some of it's blood got into you, like what happened to Tom in the movie, than you became the time master and could in effect hack in to their time bubble
[2:46:18 PM] Sirius 17: and then re-configure
[2:46:45 PM] Sirius 17: it was bizarre
[2:47:26 PM] Sirius 17: but yes most of these so called luciferian experts have no idea who even Lucifer is
[2:47:27 PM] Shiloh: A bit too human fantastic
[2:47:52 PM] Shiloh: Its as misunderstood as Jesus and MM
[2:47:59 PM] Sirius 17: yes
[2:48:04 PM] Sirius 17: completely
[2:48:27 PM] Shiloh: The past can be observed, but not altered in my nous
[2:48:35 PM] Sirius 17: why I have to laugh whenever I see one of these videos talking about Lucifer worshipers lol
[2:48:41 PM] Sirius 17: like they know
[2:49:10 PM] Shiloh: The past is there to allow choices to project and to alter probablility future outcomes however
[2:49:35 PM] Shiloh: Lucifer is the Serpent of Eden - period
[2:49:49 PM] Sirius 17: yes we know
[2:50:03 PM] Shiloh: The Pigeradamas and nonincarnate Logos of the Sophia
[2:50:28 PM] Shiloh: The first representation of the Christ Child from Abba and Baab
[2:50:55 PM] Sirius 17: yes
[2:51:35 PM] Sirius 17: did you read the secret book of John rax?

[2:51:39 PM] Shiloh: But it is required to be BOTH White and Black to embody the original AbbaBaab Unity and so there must, in the human mindedness of the 'realm of the Duality', exist BOTH a White Luciferian brotherhood AND a Black Luciferian Sisterhood

[2:52:27 PM] Shiloh: The Serpent or Eden is both the PAST and the FUTURE in the PRESENT
[2:53:21 PM] Shiloh: SERPENT =97= Son of Man = Circle of God and the MOTHER =79= AlphaOmega reversed
[2:54:02 PM] Shiloh: From such codes derive silly satanist reversals and nabs 'exposures' of upside down crosses and subliminal this and thats and the 'evil rites' of the 'secret clans' from the Vatican to freemasons to neo-nazis and neo-cons and neo-whatevers
[2:54:27 PM] Sirius 17: yes they don't see the ouroboros

[2:59:25 PM] Shiloh: Lucifer is the 'he' transforming into a 'heshe' and Lucifera is 'A Lucifer' metamorphosing into a 'shehe' from the 'h'e as Adam-Abba image becoming mirrored in a real world in the 'she' as Eve-Baab image, but originally coming 'out of Adam as a rib' archetype and so disallowing the creation of a 'shehe' in the fantasy world or heaven
[3:00:37 PM] Shiloh: This process, then becomes a light-darkness synthesis and synergy
[3:01:11 PM] Shiloh: The Universe as old creation doubles or twins itself like the Möbius strip or the Klein Bottle (in surface area available to store data say and as memory), using its own 'nexus' or singularity or Black Hole as bottomless pit etc
[3:02:24 PM] Shiloh: This brings AbbaBaab aka CreatorCreation aka YangYin aka goodevil aka LightDarkness as twilight back together again, and who had to separate to eliminate the fantasy heaven as abstract place of the original genesis and to so create the original physicality as the 'cosmic antistate of the abstract light' of the 'perfect unknowable one' as per the apocryphon.
The 'unknowable' and 'undefinable' so REQUIRES its own finitisation; which is but the creation of the physical limitations in the doubling of the duality of knowable and unknowable or Zero/Void with Eternity/Infinity into a real, however mathematical process or procedure, which enables the mathematical Infinity to become DEFINED as a limiting process within its finite mathematical subset.
Such is the true reality of the 'Secret name of God' as the I Am That I Am! of Exodus.3.14 as its anagram transformation from an asymmetric tetragrammaton YaHWeH into the symmetric pentagrammaton YaHWHeY in the I Am That Am I as the MATHIMATIA=95=Excalibur=Neptune=Scorpio=.. etc and as the contemporary archetype of the PHOENIX 'Rising' as the Scorpio of the gnostic gospel of John being also the Eagle of John. This is nicely metaphored in the 'Rise like a phoenix song' of the 2014 Eurovision contest and scandal, as the artist was a Dragqueen (Conchita Wurst) and so representing just this he doubling into a heshe and vice versa. This then also depicts the 'shortcomings' or unresolved issues in the apocryphon with respect to the 'unknowability' of the 'perfect one' from the beginning of time and space and all creation accounts and mythologies
[3:03:30 PM] Shiloh: AbbaBaab(Unreal or abstract) = Abba(abstract)+Baab(real) = AbbaBaab(Abstract) + AbbaBaab(Real) = Mental Metaphysical Universe + Physical Universe as a Unification of Opposites allowing cross fertilizations between them in a higher dimensional synergy of its 'building blocks' of memes and superstrings as wavicles (waved particles) or mem(ory) branes
[3:04:14 PM] Shiloh: The middle part is the 'Exile or banishment from fantasy heaven' aka the 'Quantum Big Bang' of modern scientific understanding and model building
[3:05:37 PM] Shiloh: This of course allows all sorts of fantasy and fake gods and devils to be human mind created, such as the Jehovah-Allah abomination
[3:06:40 PM] Shiloh: Because BOTH reality and unreality must form the cosmic dichotomy in which all contexts must manifest and play
[3:07:29 PM] Shiloh: Then when polarity potentials are maximised, the real and the unreal will blend to create the doubling of the entire old creation as a twinship new creation

[3:18:45 PM] Sirius 17:

this is a sweet scene
[3:19:39 PM] Shiloh: I wonder what caused Robin's depression
[3:20:55 PM] Sirius 17: yes me too
[3:21:17 PM] Sirius 17: it is said that he had been struggling with alcohol and drugs his whole life
[3:21:24 PM] Sirius 17: addiction
[3:24:21 PM] Sirius 17: President Barack Obama's statement sent from the White House summed it up:

"Robin Williams was an airman, a doctor, a genie, a nanny, a president, a professor, a bangarang Peter Pan, and everything in between. But he was one of a kind. He arrived in our lives as an alien -- but he ended up touching every element of the human spirit. He made us laugh. He made us cry. He gave his immeasurable talent freely and generously to those who needed it most -- from our troops stationed abroad to the marginalized on our own streets."

[3:34:33 PM] Sirius 17: Williams made at least two trips to rehab for drug treatment, including a visit this summer, and he underwent heart surgery in 2009.
[3:34:43 PM] Sirius 17: http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/showbiz/robin-williams-dead/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
[3:35:03 PM] Sirius 17: I read someplace else that he had an aortic valve replacement
[3:35:52 PM] Shiloh: He was an excellent representative of a cosmic human or what an evolved human mind should be like
[3:36:12 PM] Shiloh: But then the environmental pressures destroy even those qualities
[3:36:20 PM] Sirius 17: yes, sadly
[3:36:56 PM] Sirius 17: perhaps he could not bear to watch anymore suffering
[3:37:36 PM] Sirius 17: I think he felt things very deeply
[3:40:11 PM] Shiloh: yes, he strikes me as such
[3:43:57 PM] Sirius 17: http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/08/11/nr-laporte-boy-poses-severed-head.cnn.html
[3:44:03 PM] Sirius 17: this is over the top
[3:44:17 PM] Sirius 17: I am guessing you have seen this on the news over there
[3:46:46 PM] Shiloh: But true
[3:46:56 PM] Shiloh: yes it is viral here
[3:47:23 PM] Shiloh: See how this Isis cra16 is now coming to a head
[3:47:44 PM] Sirius 17: yes it is getting unreal
[3:48:07 PM] Shiloh: The insanity of the human mind is polarized in this in a maximization and it is affecting the human groupmind
[3:48:49 PM] Shiloh: The memeplex is now Islamic State and global
[3:49:09 PM] Sirius 17: you would think the holocaust would of been enough
[3:49:11 PM] Shiloh: No longer restricted to Syria and Iraq
[3:49:53 PM] Shiloh: It is because young children are engaged, that the human blah blah is being confronted with its most vile expressions
[3:50:41 PM] raxnae: yes I read it, it is very interesting but I'm afraid I don't have the eyes to read between the lines and find the hidden codes
[3:51:11 PM] Shiloh: The apocryphon is no easy read
[3:51:32 PM] Shiloh: It is rather convoluted, because it addresses this 'undefinability'
[3:51:49 PM] Shiloh: Like it is some sort of unfathomable world
[3:51:53 PM] Shiloh: It is not
[3:52:18 PM] Shiloh: But only logical discourse and definition can REDEFINE the unknowable
[3:53:08 PM] Shiloh: This islamist jihad agenda represents the polarisation opposite extreme contra that logistics
[3:53:28 PM] Shiloh: Pure hatred and belief in fantasies
[3:53:46 PM] Shiloh: The GOT is easier to digest
[3:54:33 PM] Shiloh: There are passages in the apocryphon which seem to reject all physicality
[3:54:40 PM] Shiloh: This is not so in the GOT
[3:55:15 PM] Shiloh: This rejection is part of the projected 'supremacy' of the unknowable spirit over anything created
[3:55:36 PM] raxnae: I've been pondering the GOT in depth but I still lack a proper understanding of it
[3:55:39 PM] Shiloh: It neglects or omits the 'real Logos' from the GOT
[3:55:51 PM] Sirius 17: it is deeply symbolic, but an interesting study to ponder
[3:56:23 PM] Shiloh: Iow, the 'saviour' in the apocryphon has a number of very human minded characteristics and so is not of the power and quality found in the GOT
[3:56:34 PM] Sirius 17: I like it but all those names of the different archons and angels can be confusing
[3:56:41 PM] Shiloh: the GOT is flawless, the apocryphon is not
[3:56:53 PM] Sirius 17: true
[3:57:03 PM] Sirius 17: The Thunder Mind is good too for comparisons
[3:57:11 PM] Sirius 17: that is also in the collection rax
[3:57:16 PM] Shiloh: The GOT was composed by a nonhuman mind, but the apocryphon draws on that but has some 'human mind pollutions' in it
[3:58:45 PM] Sirius 17: http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/thunder.html
[3:59:04 PM] Shiloh: Historically, the GOT represents the 'Quelle' or Q document of the historians, attempting to synthesise all of the gospels and dates to 32-35AD, whilst the apocryphon is younger and not as 'eye witnessed' as the former
[4:01:11 PM] Sirius 17: well and even the scholars talk about the latter additions to the apocrypha and how these additions sort of muddle the original versions too
[4:01:27 PM] Sirius 17: the GOT doesn't have this
[4:02:42 PM] Shiloh: The GOT is a real ET document and not of human origin. The GOT is far more authoritative than the 'leaked' documents from whatever sources as presented by the nabsers
[4:03:28 PM] Sirius 17: it is good to look at the other nag hammadi codex though for comparisons just to see the difference between Jesus's words and the interpretation of them.
[4:03:47 PM] Sirius 17: yes exactly
[4:03:59 PM] Sirius 17: you can tell a difference in the tone and feel the authority
[4:04:23 PM] Sirius 17: in the GOT it is most present
[4:04:39 PM] Sirius 17: this ET mind that Tony talks about
[4:04:54 PM] Sirius 17: it is the real Logos
[4:07:18 PM] Sirius 17: the 'codes' that Tony talks about are like number sentences in passages in the bible for example
[4:07:44 PM] Sirius 17: so not really hidden, just their meanings
[4:08:07 PM] Shiloh: Indeed
[4:09:41 PM] Shiloh: You can look at the 'interpretations' of the GOT one by one here and by so called experts and laymen alike
[4:09:51 PM] Sirius 17:

John 21:11 - King James Version (KJV)

11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.

[4:09:56 PM] Sirius 17: like this one for example
[4:10:05 PM] Sirius 17: 153 fishes
[4:10:08 PM] Sirius 17: is a code
[4:10:42 PM] Shiloh: It is ludicrous, as to what they come up with. For example they even fail to get the 'Eating of the Lion' wrong, despite an entire eucharistic tradition of the catholics being centred on just this
[4:10:47 PM] Shiloh: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/gospelthomas7.html
[4:12:21 PM] Shiloh: You might see the human minded arrogance etc in this. And it is not restricted to so called laymen, but is deeply ingrained in the theologians and the historians and experts as well
[4:12:25 PM] Sirius 17: lol
[4:12:25 PM] Sirius 17: lol
[4:12:58 PM] Sirius 17:

F. F. Bruce writes: "The point of this seems to be that a lion, if eaten by a man, is ennobled by rising in the scale of being, whereas a man, if eaten by a lion, is degraded to a lower status than was originally his and may even risk missing the goal of immortality. It is not that we become what we eat but that what we eat becomes part of us (as in Walter de la Mare's poem 'Little Miss T-'). Whether, in addition, there is any special symbolism in the lion, as in 1 Peter 5.8 ('Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour'), is exceedingly difficult to determine." (Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament, p.

[4:13:22 PM] Sirius 17: don't get eaten by Lions
[4:14:04 PM] Sirius 17: don't they know who the Lion of Judah is?
[4:14:16 PM] Sirius 17: yes these interpretations are pathetic
[4:15:11 PM] Sirius 17:

Funk and Hoover continue: "The lion was also used to symbolize human passions. Consuming the lion or being eaten by the lion may therefore have had to do with the relation to one's passions. Understood this way, the saying embodies an ascetic motif. At any rate, Jesus, who was reputed to be a glutton and a drunkard, probably did not coin this saying." (The Five Gospels, p. 477)

[4:15:15 PM] Sirius 17: they get worse lol
[4:17:28 PM] Shiloh: Yes, why I directed rax to this site. Now people who would like to really KNOW about the GOT finish up with those 'experts' and of course will gain little insight from such nonsense
[4:18:34 PM] Shiloh: Wikipedia is not much better, as it too is 'controled' by biased editors and often secular and anti-Christian hierarchies
[4:19:25 PM] Shiloh: BUT, you can be assured, that the real echeloners (ptb) knows a lot about the GOT and takes it very very serious, as they know of its origins
[4:20:15 PM] Shiloh: The relative obscurity in the public discourses is intentionally fostered and deeper analysis is suppressed and ridiculed as some 'gnostic document of 150AD'.
[4:20:35 PM] Sirius 17: I guess they didn't read revelations lol
[4:20:41 PM] Sirius 17:

Revelation 5 - King James Version (KJV)

1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

[4:21:23 PM] Sirius 17: [4:20 PM] Sirius 17:<<< 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

it is pretty obvious who this Lion of Judah of the root of David is
[4:22:30 PM] Sirius 17: well to anyone with half a brain
[4:22:36 PM] Sirius 17: willing to look a few things up
[4:23:14 PM] Sirius 17: you don't have to be a scholar to find this stuff in other words rax
[4:23:41 PM] Sirius 17: because from what Tony shared, it is obvious that even the so called scholars are not able to find it lol

(7) Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man."

[4:27:06 PM] Sirius 17: so now with a little deductive and informed 'nous' you can now figure this out
[4:27:36 PM] Sirius 17: of course if you apply these too
[4:28:19 PM] Sirius 17:

(108) Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become like me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him."

[4:28:23 PM] Sirius 17: this gives you a hint

[4:29:03 PM] Sirius 17:

(22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."

[4:29:05 PM] Sirius 17: and this one too
[4:29:48 PM] Shiloh:

Luke 22:18-20 - King James Version (KJV)

18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

[4:29:48 PM] Sirius 17: [4:28 PM] Sirius 17: <<< when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye,
[4:30:15 PM] Sirius 17: oh yes good ones
[4:30:23 PM] Shiloh: 'Eating the Body of the true Christ' is the 'eating of the Lion'
[4:30:59 PM] Shiloh: Yet this simple truth is suppressed and linked to religious nonsense or even cannibalism
[4:31:39 PM] Shiloh: The GOT clears all those misunderstandings up, if you have eyes to see and ears to hear
[4:31:59 PM] Sirius 17: religious nonsense being the eating of wafers and drinking wine during mass ect
[4:32:51 PM] Shiloh: The male-female thing of GOT(22) has a VERY mysterious passage in mark, which I have not hitherto addressed
[4:34:04 PM] Shiloh:

Mark 14:49-53 - King James Version (KJV)

49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

50 And they all forsook him, and fled.

51 And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him:

52 And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.

53 And they led Jesus away to the high priest: and with him were assembled all the chief priests and the elders and the scribes.

[4:34:24 PM] Shiloh: And also in John.21
[4:35:17 PM] Sirius 17: hmm yes I have never seen this one before
[4:35:37 PM] Shiloh:

John 21:6-11 - King James Version (KJV)

6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.

7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

8 And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.

9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.

10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.

11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.

[4:36:20 PM] Shiloh: This 'nakedness' is often linked to a Nag Hammadi text of the 'Secret Book of Mark' and is used by some to claim Jesus was gay
[4:36:56 PM] Shiloh: Only the GOT will allow you to connect some codes here in their proper contexts
[4:37:48 PM] Sirius 17: [4:35 PM] Shiloh: <<< 7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

ohh
[4:37:50 PM] Shiloh: AGAPE is often used as the 'non sexual' LOVE, which Jesus talks about, with EROS being the sexual LOVE
[4:38:11 PM] Shiloh: Yes very controversial words indeed
[4:38:58 PM] Sirius 17: retards
[4:39:03 PM] Shiloh: So the 'experts' often squabble over what the 'secret initiations' Jesus engaged with the apostles and this 'young naked man' of Mark 14, might be
[4:40:30 PM] Shiloh: But GOT(22) shows you the 'cosmic bisexuality' as the 'healing' of the homosexuality physical not as some physical abomination as per the Allah-Jehovah idiocy, but as the mental blending of the male and the female in the cosmic twinship
[4:40:55 PM] Sirius 17: well the young man was peter of course
[4:41:29 PM] Shiloh: So the claim of the homosexual community to portray Jesus as gay is as half sided, as rendering Jesus to be anti-gay and celibate and asexually 'pure' etc
[4:42:00 PM] Sirius 17: very interesting
[4:42:07 PM] Shiloh: I dont think so Juju
[4:42:43 PM] Shiloh: It was a young men who was indeed 'in love' with Jesus and was distraught by his arrest
[4:42:51 PM] Sirius 17: you don't think these passages in Mark and John are interesting?
[4:43:00 PM] Sirius 17: oh that, sorry
[4:43:21 PM] Shiloh: Peter was not a young man in 31AD
[4:43:39 PM] Sirius 17: I know but that is what came to me
[4:43:49 PM] Shiloh: John was the youngest of the apostles and it could have been John
[4:44:17 PM] Sirius 17: yes I honestly don't know these details, how old they were ect
[4:44:23 PM] Sirius 17: these are things you have studied
[4:44:31 PM] Sirius 17: I have not
[4:45:34 PM] raxnae: what is the root of the truth that you speak of
[4:45:39 PM] Shiloh: BUT Jesus 'initiations' were not what people think of as say sexual interactions between gay men. It was the sharing of the erotic nature of the cosmic Eros as not being the same as the Agape of the nonsexual
[4:46:18 PM] Shiloh: Remembrance, just as stated at the 'Last Supper' and not a derivative of 'human thinking'
[4:47:05 PM] Shiloh: You either KNOW as gnostic insight or you dont
[4:47:19 PM] Shiloh: The problem then is to put this nous into words
[4:48:38 PM] Shiloh: GOT(13) as the 3 secrets see? Also harmonises the maleness with the femaleness
[4:48:56 PM] Sirius 17: yes
[4:57:07 PM] Shiloh:

Lacunae and continuity

The two excerpts suggest resolutions to some puzzling passages in the canonical Mark.

The young man in the linen cloth

In Mark 14:51-52, a young man in a linen cloth is seized during Jesus' arrest, but he escapes at the cost of his clothing. This passage seems to have little to do with the rest of the narrative, and it has given cause to various interpretations. Often it is suggested that the young man is Mark himself. Some commentators believe that the boy was a stranger, who lived near the garden and, after being awakened, ran out, half-dressed, to see what all the noise was about (vv. 46-49).[46] W. L. Lane thinks that Mark mentioned this episode in order to make it clear that "all (not only the disciples) fled, leaving Jesus alone in the custody of the police."[47]

The same Greek word neaniskos (young man) is used in both Secret Mark and at Mark 14:51. If we accept Helmut Koester's theory that the canonical Mark is a revision of Secret Mark,[48] another explanation is possible: namely, that the ancient editor who deleted an earlier encounter of Jesus with such a young man in a cloth, then added this incident also involving a young man during Jesus' arrest.

There is another occurrence of neaniskos in Mark, this time as a youth dressed in white at the tomb of Jesus (Mark 16:5). For this particular passage, there are also parallel passages in both Matthew and Luke, but neither of the other Synoptic Gospels use the word neaniskos. (In Matthew 28:2 it is "an angel of the Lord" dressed in white that appears and, in Luke 24:4, there are two "men" (Greek: andres)). Thus, it is also possible that all three of these occurrences of neaniskos in Mark and in Secret Mark are somehow related. The proponents of Secret Mark as a forgery, on the other hand, suggest that Secret Mark was created based on Mark 14:51 and 16:5.

Morton Smith indicates that in Clement's letter, the presentation of the young man in the linen cloth has homoerotic connotations. Following Mark 10:34, Clement writes in his letter, the story of Jesus raising the young man from the dead, who then loves Jesus and begs to stay with him. After six days, the young man comes to Jesus in the evening, clothed in nothing but a linen garment, and spends the night, during which time Jesus teaches him the mystery of the Kingdom of God.[49]

The authenticity of this passage has been called into question on the basis of biographical details about Morton Smith. Some speculate that the homoerotic overtones were included by Smith because he himself was a homosexual. Although this speculation may not be relevant, Smith's reluctance or inability to present the original document of Clement's letter for inspection has left room for forgery accusations. He made photographs of the document available, but that has not convinced many skeptics.[49]

[4:57:17 PM] Shiloh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Gospel_of_Mark
[5:02:54 PM] raxnae: I can see why the GOT makes this a lot clearer
[5:04:42 PM] Shiloh:

The Secret Gospel of Mark

I find the Secret Gospel of Mark fascinating. Copied by a scribe in the 18th century from an earlier (how early we don't know) copy, there has been a great deal of controversy among scholars regarding its authenticity. I believe the Clementine letter is authentic for reasons of style. There can be no justifiable suspicion of Morton Smith's integrity and I give no airing time to claims that Professor Smith forged the document..period!

Beginning of three-page handwritten addition penned into the endpapers of a printed book, Isaac Voss' 1646 edition of the Epistolae genuinae S. Ignatii Martyris. The addition is in 18th century Greek minuscule copying a letter of Clement of Alexandria "to Theodore" concerning a dispute with the Carpocratians, an heterodox Christian sect. It was discovered by Morton Smith in 1958 when he, as a graduate student of Columbia University, was cataloguing the manuscript collection of the Mar Saba Monastery south of Jerusalem.

Page 1

Translation of Andrew Bernhard (his website listed below)

01 From the letters of the most holy Clement of the Stomateis. To Theodore:

02 You did well silencing the unspeakable teachings of the Carpocratians.
03 For they are the prophesied wandering stars. From the narrow road of the commandments
04 they are wandering into a boundless abyss of carnal and bodily sins.
05 For having been puffed up in knowledge - as they call it - of the depths of Satan, they fail to notice
06 that they are throwing themselves down into the darkness of dark lies. And having boasted
07 that they are free, they have become slaves of servile desires. With these people, then, it is
08 necessary to check them constantly and in everything. For even if they say something true, still
09 the lover of the truth should not agree with them. For not all true things are truth.
10 One must not value what human opinion considers truth more than the
11 true truth, which is recognized through faith. Now, concerning their babblings about the divinely
12 inspired Gospel according to Mark: some are wholly false while others, even if partly true,
13 are still not completely true. The true parts, because they have been mixed
14 with invented stories are debased so that, as the saying goes, even the
15 salt loses its flavor. As for Mark then, during the time when Peter was in Rome,
16 he wrote up the deeds of the Lord, not actually recording everything, nor
17 hinting at the mysteries, but instead picking out the things he thought would
18 increase the faith of those being taught. Then, when Peter was martyred, Mark went
19 to Alexandria, bringing both his knowledge and the things he remembered hearing from Peter.
20 From what he brought, he supplemented his first book with the appropriate items
21 about knowledge for those who are making progress. He arranged a more spiritual
22 gospel for the use of those being perfected. Nevertheless, he did not reveal the things
23 which are not to be discussed. He did not write out the hierophantic instruction of the
24 Lord, but added other deeds to the ones he had already written. Then, he
25 added certain sayings, the interpretation of which he knew would initiate the hearers
26 into the innermost sanctuary of the truth which has been hidden seven times. This is the way
27 he prepared them, in my opinion, not ungrudgingly or unguardedly. And
28 when he died, he left his writing to the church in

Page 2

01 Alexandria, where it is even now still extremely carefully guarded, being read
02 only to those who have been initiated into the greatest mysteries. The miserable
03 demons, however, are always devising destruction for the human race.
04 After being taught by them and using their deceptive arts, Carpocrates
05 was able to enslave some elder from the church in Alexandria
06 and get the written part of the secret gospel from him. And he
07 interpreted it according to his blasphemous and carnal opinion. Still
08 he defiles it, mixing with the most undefiled and holy narratives the most
09 shameless lies. The teaching of the Carpocratians is derived from this mixture.
10 Therefore, one must never yield to them, just as I said before. Also, one must not concede
11 to them that the secret gospel is from Mark, when they put forth their lies.
12 Rather one must deny it, even with an oath. For one does not have to speak
13 the whole truth to everyone. For this reason the wisdom of God declares through Solomon,
14 "Answer the fool from his folly," teaching that, from people whose minds are blinded,
15 the light of the truth must be concealed. At once, she (Wisdom)
16 says, "From the one who has not, it will be taken," and, "Let the fool go in darkness."
17 But we are the children of light, who have been illuminated in the rising of the heights of the
18 spirit of the Lord. "Where the spirit of the Lord is," she says, "there is freedom." For all
19 things are pure to those who are pure. So I will not hesitate to answer the questions for you,
20 exposing their lies from the actual words of the gospel.
21 At any rate, after the part, "They were going up on the road to Jerusalem" and the following things
22 until, "after three days he will arise," it takes up according to the text:
23 "And they went to Bethany and there was a woman whose brother had died.
24 And coming up to him, she prostrated herself before Jesus and said to him, 'Son of David,
25 have mercy on me.' But the disciples rebuked her. And becoming angry,
26 Jesus went with her to the garden where the tomb was. And

Page 3

01 immediately a great sound was
heard from the tomb, and Jesus, going toward it
02 rolled away the stone from the entrance to the tomb. And going in immediately where
03 the young man was, he stretched out a hand and raised him up, holding
04 his hand. Then, the man looked at him and loved him and
05 he began to call him to his side, that he might be with him. And going from
06 the tomb, they went to the house of the young man. For he was rich. And after
07 six days, Jesus instructed him. And when it was late, the young man went
08 to him. He had put a linen around his naked body, and
09 he remained with him through that night. For Jesus taught him
10 the mystery of the kingdom of God. After he got up from there,
11 he turned to the region of the Jordan." And after these things, this follows:
12 "James and John go to him," and that whole section.
13 But the "naked man with naked man" and the other things you wrote about are
14 not found. After, "and he goes to Jericho," it adds only, "And the
15 brother of the young man whom Jesus loved was there, as well as
16 his mother and Salome. And Jesus did not welcome them."
17 But the many other things which you wrote both seem, and are, most false. So,
18 the truth according to the right interpretation. . .

Where did this letter come from? I believe that a monk at Mar Saba noticed that the original, a very ancient copy, or perhaps even the autograph, was so deteriorated that the manuscript was in danger of being lost forever. He transcribed the ancient text in a hurried, cursive minuscule script on the last three fly leaves of the 1646 volume with the intention to recopy it later in a more elegant hand. Perhaps he followed through with this plan and his copied manuscript has since been lost. Perhaps he never got the opportunity to to recopy the manuscript and all that was left for Morton Smith to discover was his "rough draft" of the original. If the monk worked so hurriedly to preserve an ancient manuscript of this..

[5:04:52 PM] Shiloh: http://www.historian.net/secmark.htm
[5:06:56 PM] Shiloh:

01 immediately a great sound was heard from the tomb, and Jesus, going toward it
02 rolled away the stone from the entrance to the tomb. And going in immediately where
03 the young man was, he stretched out a hand and raised him up, holding
04 his hand. Then, the man looked at him and loved him and
05 he began to call him to his side, that he might be with him. And going from
06 the tomb, they went to the house of the young man. For he was rich. And after
07 six days, Jesus instructed him. And when it was late, the young man went
08 to him. He had put a linen around his naked body, and
09 he remained with him through that night. For Jesus taught him
10 the mystery of the kingdom of God. After he got up from there,
11 he turned to the region of the Jordan." And after these things, this follows:
12 "James and John go to him," and that whole section.
13 But the "naked man with naked man" and the other things you wrote about are
14 not found. After, "and he goes to Jericho," it adds only, "And the
15 brother of the young man whom Jesus loved was there, as well as
16 his mother and Salome. And Jesus did not welcome them."
17 But the many other things which you wrote both seem, and are, most false. So,
18 the truth according to the right interpretation. . .

[5:07:17 PM] Shiloh: This then is the 'controversial' part of this letter/secret gospel
[5:08:10 PM] Shiloh: But one can see how it relates to the canonical mark and also many other archetypes of the 'angels in white linen' etc and also the 'Bride of the Lamb' in revelation.19
[5:09:17 PM] Shiloh:

Revelation 19:7-9 - King James Version (KJV)

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

[5:10:20 PM] Shiloh: As you can see, the REAL Jesus is VERY different from some virginal superhuman heavenly character
[5:11:59 PM] Shiloh: And rather different and apart from conventional religious labels and definitions. The true Jesus is sexually superaware in the cosmic sense. Why he says, that the 'children worthy of the resurrection' do NOT marry in heaven, but are as free as the angels
[5:12:45 PM] Shiloh: Nabsers and morons of divers kinds, then read this as some asexual Nirvana heaven where the 'desires' of the cosmos sexual are absent
[5:13:19 PM] raxnae: sexual desire is a major part of the foundation
[5:13:31 PM] raxnae: it is one of the most primal forces around
[5:14:01 PM] raxnae: but it isn't as shallow as the human mindedness percieves it to be
[5:15:17 PM] Shiloh: Exactly, it represents the primal energy source and cosmic impulse
[5:19:35 PM] raxnae: I imagine the real Jesus would have blown their minds lol
[5:19:55 PM] Sirius 17: so do you feel this secret gospel of Mark to be genuine Tony?
[5:19:57 PM] raxnae: and that not everyone would be receptive of such knowledge
[5:20:38 PM] Sirius 17: because of the mention of the naked young man in Mark itself?
[5:20:45 PM] Sirius 17: I see how it ties in
[5:22:53 PM] Shiloh: Mostly yes, it is genuine. But of course you have the Xtian do-gooders who cannot perceive of Jesus as a normal human male with sexual desires, albeit possessing cosmic understandings about it
[5:24:07 PM] Sirius 17: if so they sure left out a lot of stuff in Mark lol
[5:24:49 PM] Sirius 17: it makes sense though from reading through this wiki and comparing Mark and John
[5:25:01 PM] Shiloh: The true sexual initiation is the cosmic nous about the primal energies of creation and the 'nature of Abba and Baab'. more so than any human moralisings about sexuality and so on
[5:25:18 PM] Sirius 17: they watered it down and left out good stuff yes
[5:25:46 PM] Shiloh: Yes, actual unbiased research is required to 'overcome' the stigmatizations and the cultural brainwashings
[5:25:49 PM] Sirius 17: imagine how different things would be had they left it in
[5:26:15 PM] raxnae: i know right
[5:26:53 PM] Shiloh: Of course and the difference between Agape and Eros is fundamental and NOT perceiving this difference is this moralising monogamy and related cultural standardisations, resulting in an obnoxious possessiveness and jealousy
[5:27:17 PM] raxnae: When I had my true experience I got a massive download of the cosmic sexuality understanding
[5:27:19 PM] Sirius 17: yes in the greek they are very different
[5:27:36 PM] Sirius 17: well distinct anyhow
[5:27:42 PM] Shiloh: It is unnatural to be physically 'married'. It is cosmically natural and lawful to be mentally 'married' in entwinement and in fidelity however in a genuine 'alchemical wedding' or dragonomy
[5:29:44 PM] Shiloh: Those criteria were the 'initiations' of the Cosmic LOVE being freer than the Human Love
[5:30:22 PM] Shiloh: Mental Love infers a wave nature and so the 'marriage' is naturally all encompassing
[5:30:48 PM] raxnae: did mel tell you about what we experienced? I'm sure she did lol
[5:31:10 PM] Shiloh: Physical Love is body centred and so should be like a 'change of attire' or location or food etc. It is particular and subject to change, taste and variety
[5:32:21 PM] Shiloh: But the mental entwinement is inviolable, because waves are everywhere at all times in say quantum macro-micro entanglement. This is the 'shall be one flesh undivided' in the Pauline descriptions of the cosmic and not human ideas of 'marriage'
Mel is a cosmically sexy honeybee and so is more selfaware, than most in this regard, yes

tMoA

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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Coming or going?

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https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Theoretical_Physics_Board/conversations/topics/14016;_ylc=X3oDMTJzbHBsbjRkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzc5MzgxMTgwBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzU0MTYzOARtc2dJZAMxNDAxNgRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxNDE2MjE0NjY1

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Conversation of disciples and Jesus in Shilo's post

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