The Problems with Exclusivity

The member Core was highlighting some of the things that Atticus1 are doing like radio stations and what have you then asked what are what are you and your keyboard doing? A rather trite and presumptuous remark if ever there was one. All I can say is that I do plenty and I don't need to belong to an exclusive group to do it. Im sure there are millions of people around the world doing plenty who also feel the need to take part in a closed group is not at all necessary. I don't regard having another radio station as particularly useful or pioneering as there are zillions of alternative ones already but this one is going to be special right? Perhaps your resources would be better used elsewhere.

When talking about service work or game changing groups and ideas then it is my opinion that operating from behind closed doors is just a bit daft really. A lack of transparency always promotes suspicion and limiting a group to a specific number is unhelpful.

The work is better served without pomp and circumstance, without a sense of exclusivity but rather the opposite, a sense of total inclusion and global participation that requires no membership to any group or society but rather being a pro active member in the human race. The only way to initiate mass change in human consciousness is through acts. Not through words but in deeds. There are many groups and societies that are hoping to be a catalyst for change but more often than they fail through internal feuding and other unhelpful and peripheral criteria. They come and then they go.

My position would be to that say exclusive groups often do harbour a sense elitism whether intentional or otherwise. There are permaculture and ecological groups that are open and very loosely organised that are leading the way in changing the way we look at living on the planet. The warmth, humility and openness they exude is palpable. That is the roll model to which we should be looking up to. They are the real heroes and the true educators. I admire them fully.

No exclusivity is not the way forward.

I do hope in expressing this opinion that will be fine.

I think it's a bit different when it comes to groups who are putting data together for the purpose of producing media. For example, if producing media for the public was my goal I would look for individuals who have experience to help me achieve my goal. People who know how to produce, edit and distribute media come to mind. It only stands to reason that some groups with specific goals and objectives work better together then just a hodge podge of folks who have a general idea on how to get things done.

For example, the time I spent with the Farmer's Cooperative was a mitigated disaster due to one member (alcoholic) who was also a bully and totally into everyone else having to go along with his agenda. He would show up at meetings shouting talking over the "elected" board, infuriating everyone to the point that the Board's president finally lost it and conked the bloke over the head with a lava rock. Mind you the Board President barely weighted 100 lbs and the other bloke was well over 200 lbs and huge. So, the one creating all the problems ended up with a concussion, sued the Coop, won the suit and almost destroyed everyone else's work and almost financially took down the Coop. I for one know from first hand experience that there is a difference between exclusivity and having a compatible group who know how to work together.

All it takes is one bi-polar nutter to wreck the work of others no matter what the intentions of the majority are - unless the intention is to get rid of the nuttier so that the group can accomplish some work.

The primary problem, as I view it Floyd, is that egos get in the way as some tend to assume "king of the mountain" attitude disregarding the will or desires of others.

One of the things that a 'good' professional learns is how to check the ego at the door so that the goal or mission of the task becomes the primary objective as compared to 'who gets to be the petty tyrant' for this go-around.

Basically you're talking apples and oranges. Most people are emotionally immature as maturity takes years and years for the vast majority to reach. So when bringing a group of people together for anything there is often a gap as to where they are in terms of maturation. For example young people who are quite brilliant get frustrated with other folks who are not up to their speed, which results in frustration and acting out. Patience often takes years to learn.

I can totally understand how some groups don't want anyone to know what they are up to especially if they are on the fast track to meeting a specific objective and don't need any distractors to slow them down. You may call it an exclusive group and someone else may call it a task oriented group. The point being that we all have a different point of view and all points of view can be correct from a broad-based perspective.

And Floyd - one could also illustrate how Mists could be viewed as exclusive just by how new members are treated when they decide to present their viewpoint for the first time. For instance, I've observed how some new members could perceive being under the attack just by taking sides with other members in a debate which did happen in one of your threads. That's not particularly welcoming, now is it?

And I have known of several members who left because of how they were treated here which wasn't very nice either. This is to say we all have our blind sides and we all have a lot of room to grow to where we develop tolerance for differences.

I mean specifically this. There are a number of truly brilliant, intellectual, warm-hearted members here. Yet with all the people joining why are they choosing not to post. I suspect folks are far more emotionally vulnerable then one suspects and so words do make a difference especially if one is afraid of being a target for whatever reason. There are days here I don't want to open a thread for that very reason. And I'm much further down the road then most and have learned how to be emotionally well-defended or distant. Given that this is how I feel - where I'm afraid I may be emotionally wound by something you may write about me, and have already written about others to the point they were in tears and very upset, I can understand the reluctance of some not wanting to jump in.

I've also been thinking a lot about your ideas of communities and also understand from my own painful experience of being a member of communities be it in the church, the farmer's cooperative and such that I don't much like them. I'm the type of person who is a multi-tasker and gets things done. I bring my best to what I do and like to accomplish what I can in short order. I also tend to have run-ins with those in charge who are emotionally immature and view themselves as 'king or queen' of the mountain on a regular bases and have subsequently concluded this is my negative karma. It started with a family member who is still pulling his crap and has continued acting out.

My idea of leadership is not to lead but is one of consensus and teamwork. My problem is others who are just not at that level of maturity and are emotionally insecure or threatened specifically when they have someone gotten themselves into some type of leadership roll. And possibly, similar to you, I have no patience with fools - so this is my growing edge. I too get very frustrated with others who have no vision or can even work up the effort to see others vision and work toward a common goal. And I particularly harbor resentment toward those who would drag others down to their level just because they can't or won't do better for themselves.

With all of my own flaws and imperfections and a lifetime of experience I still often feel that I'm just sitting at the first rung of the ladder in terms of human evolution. I view others much further along the path then myself and am often kicking myself in the backside that I'm not further along with my own inner growth - to where I can just accept everyone for where they are at in life and not get upset that they aren't further along either. To me it's like swimming under water wanting to break free into the open air - but breaking free is so illusive. So instead I put my attention to what I can do like sanding the window trim and prepping it for painting or washing off the bugs on my salad fixings growing outside, or collecting eggs. Sometimes the best that I can do is just the mundane 'chop wood and carry water.'

Yes, it's appreciated when work is done without pomp and circumstances along with a sense of exclusivity because after all - who likes to feel like the outsider. And I can also appreciate that these folks got together for a common purpose to achieve something rather then sit on their duffs.

everything is very ancient
- america, and, the rest of the world, has been dumbed down !!!

law was created to try to protect eXclusive things

law was created to keep all the different criminals honest LOL

THEeXchanger wrote:law was created to keep all the different criminals honest LOL

lol
yes as the honesty is constantly changing as well as their law we have a good picture of what is going on with self appointed authorities

Regarding exclusivity, I doubt there are any truly happy answers or solutions. If a church claims to be the 'one true church' with the 'truth' -- they are obviously (and often pompously) exclusive. People and organizations (especially regarding politics and religion) wish to be right. They like to win. If a church were to admit that they were 'just another church' and that they were merely 'searching for the truth' -- this opens a can of worms. The Episcopal Church seems to honestly be trying to take this second approach -- while the Roman Catholic Church seems to continue to take the first approach. I grew-up attending a church that was probably in the middle of these two extremes (the Seventh-day Adventist Church) -- although they probably leaned toward exclusivity. I eventually left, in part, because I wished to be ecumenical, and in part, because I simply lost my faith. I've been attempting to 'Put Humpty-Dumpty Back Together Again' on 'The United States of the Solar System' thread -- where I am confronted by the 'Exclusivity Demon'. I almost feel as if I have joined the 'Kumbaya Branch of Megalomaniacs Anonymous'. I feel as if I have wandered onto the battlefield of a Spiritual Galactic War -- and I have even delusionally felt as if I might be threatening the Security and Stability of the Universe with my Idealistic Tripe. So, once again, I am trying very, very hard to stop posting. I have come to better understand some of the problems, and I am quite frankly devastated by them. I truly do not see a happy ending or a light at the end of the tunnel. Not at this point. One might very well exist, but I'm just not seeing it right now. 'Disclosure' and 'Auditing the Fed' are another couple of cans of worms. One thing leads to another to another to another. It never ends. I doubt that there will ever be true resolution and closure. There will simply be more and more problems. I'm going to finish reading 'The Keys of This Blood', 'Rise of the Fourth Reich', 'SS Brotherhood of the Bell', 'A Foreign Policy of Freedom', and my 'Battlestar Galactica' novels -- not to try to be happy -- but just because I have a pathological need to know, and to think about things which are hard to think about -- even though it continues to ruin my life. We all have our crosses to bear. What Would Jesus Say (WWJS)?

THEeXchanger wrote:law was created to keep all the different criminals honest LOL

Hah! Good luck with that. Their intention is to do what they want irrespective of the law. The law isn't working for the simple reason that we are often governed by insane self-serving people whose very intention is to break the law from the onset.

What we need is enforcement of the law from the TOP DOWN. Then something would get done.

well we have to find the light at the end of the tunnel....we I mean humanity
we have to aczept our spirituality
we deserve to open pandorras box otherwise we will get stuck we have to discover more and more
reality and truth.
never lose faith and hope in yourself and other people
sure there is a galactic spiritual timelines war above our beloved earth.
the good side must win!!!!!

All the best Sabina

Maybe we should aim at being all inclusive exclusives as nature teaches us, each being integral part of the whole divine plan in a unique way.

Love Always
mudra

THEeXchanger wrote:law was created to keep all the different criminals honest LOL

I am sooo happy with my name. Bob Dylan said in a song, "to live outside the Law you must be honest" and yes I totally agree.

t

Finding a meaning online about the word Exclusive brings the sense of negativity in a way.
meaning : "Exclusive typically means not with other things or not including other things."

So wanting to be exclusive always carry energy vibe of excluding something or someone from the thing you or the group does.

Is that good?

Depends from the motive of the person or a group.

Since I believe this thread is a spin of from talk about Brook`s 18 thing I can say all depends of the motives of the group Brook`s in.

Hi, I see that the thread Charlse and St Germain is now closed and was just going back last night to read a couple things that were posted there and i noticed that my post at the top of page 31 where i posted evidence of violent messages from atticus has been deleted from the mists of avalon. I was not notified that it was taken down and feel that it should not have been as I dont delete your posts!

I am not trying to start anything... nor do i wish to. You see the truth is its already been started!

Since I believe this thread is a spin of from talk about Brook`s 18 thing I can say all depends of the motives of the group Brook`s in.

Motive: An emotion, desire, physiological need, or similar impulse that acts as an incitement to action.

Shall i re-post the so called private message (threat) where atticus is said he will come to canada and knock my friend out cold and smash is jaw and then video tape it with a camera and put it on the internet. There very well could be some problems with exclusivity that should be addressed.

Peace JT!

I deleted the post due to it being a private message and we don't have permission of those involved. Besides what you just wrote is more then adequate to describe what was in it.

JT seeing as though it was addressed to Me you have my permission to post It if you you so desire or better yet maybe i should Because it wasn`t a Pm it was a threat made under the Guise of a Pm 2 different things I`d say. In it he asks me to not involve or make it aware to other members of His Forum so Am i obligated to honor his request after the threat was made no and he can`t do a damn thing about it

Well - As long as all Involved Parties are now OK with It Publicly - Go for It but just observe Forum Rules of Etiquette in doing so please...

I might like to say...because it's a GIF...it bypasses the swear filter for words....and ther are several words there to bypass I think we all got the general idea. That should be sufficient?

From an unknown friend...

Since I became perfect, my arrogance reduced...

I heard this saying few days ago, which I tried to translate correctly in order to be understendable, and believe me, I had to laugh sincerely when I heard it

But really, I must add something to this thread, as exclusivity seems to be the main moving force in the "new age business" in the last few years. At least this is how I descern and feel it is, and I will tell you why.

How many times did you hear the saying that "...but I will withheld some information for me at the moment or I will never reveal everything I know which I was told by '(____)', as the humanity is not ready for that now..." ???

Once back on PA, there was a discussion about the same issue, and I told back than that I don't appreciate much when someone hides (or at least pretends to hide) informations which could be given to a broader audience for the good of all.

My opinion didn't change in these past years, nor never will. Acting like that, it means that the one doing so just underestimate the ability of the others to deal and discern with what kind of information they withheld (or pretend to).

And my opinion is, plainly said, that the only REAL moving force behind acting like this is...money.

Claiming to have 'exclusive' information and give it all at once will definitely reduce your possible and futher income, which is inevitable if you consider that once you have "said it all", no one will ever invite you to any show (be it radio, video, conferences) since you don't have to present anything new. Nor will you be able to sell any more books or any other kind of material that sells in this business.

So the only logical consequence is to withheld parts of your 'exclusive information' and only give it away in small parts. This is the only way to remain in the business...to veil your self with a cloack of mistery, as mistery sells just as well as sex.

Should I claim to have informations (say I was told that the earth will be destroyed by whomever or whatever) which were 'given' to me by some 'source', but not give this information to the humanity just claiming that the humanity is not nor never will be ready to hear what I have to say...and should I veil my self and my 'knowledge' with a cloack of mistery and exclusivity...than I tell yoo...that all makes me hypocrite of the worst kind, with only one goal...to earn more money from 'whatever I have to sell'.

The paradox is huge...and one should not be underlying the temptation to prove him/her self arrogant.

With much respect
Mall...

P.S. As soon as possible (I only await for the adequate possibilty and as soon an appropriate thread appears), I will reveal something personal, which might be schocking for the one or other. But hey, you should know me by now and who I am...what you see...is what you get... ...I am not perfect, nor I am arrogant..

Exclusivity or Elitism, (amounts to the same thing ) can be brought about in many ways, most have already been mentioned, but there is another that is clear to outsiders and newbies, and it isn't meant to be a means of power or exclusivity, it just works that way; that is mountains of difficult to digest info and the complex webs of relationships between members that have been around for some time.

It can make it difficult to post on certain topics, and it is easy to inadvertantly insult people, take the GFL for instance, hours & hours of videos to be watched before one feels one has the right to comment, and as its nigh on impossible to verify any of it ones self (as with numerous topics & personalities )its small wonder that a huge number of people read forums & never post, lots sign up & never post. (if this is you then go on and comment )

In no way is this a slight our condemnation of this or any other forum, it is just an observation .

It's interesting that you raise this point malletzky because I ran into this when I was lecturing in Switzerland. My friend who lived there and had helped organize the lectures didn't want to give out the handouts I had provided for free but wanted to charge people for them. I come from a completely different mindset where information should be free for anyone who needs it particularly if it helps them do a better job with the public. Because I really am a doctor others have used my credentials where I was presenting to profit from, which I also found offensive.

Mudra and I are on the same page when it comes to transparency and putting the data out there for those who are interested in pursuing it. Of course I also think college and higher education should be free too but I would totally restructure the entire educational system from kindergarten up teaching life skills like how to grow ones own food, build a chair, create beauty, build a cart, sanitation, etc. from the get go. In the US people graduate from high school and can't do a darn thing other then read, write and some basic math or the average student. They need to be learning how to live in the world around them where they could provide for themselves if the power grid went down. This is what I mean by life skills.

At this point in time I honestly thing one would be better off living in a third world country then a country dependent upon the grid. This is not to say I don't appreciate the grid and love it - this is to say many will be up the creek when the solar katrina hits where the grid will go down and won't have a clue as to how to take care of themselves. This is where my concern lies. And I have two children who have no clue how to take care of themselves because they are glued to a computer and refuse to learn life saving skills.

At least our home is filled with the Fox Fire books, gardening books and books that teach these skills when the need arises. I would love to send my daughter off to Tom Brown's scout training but she is too stubborn to leave home. It really is frustrating to know what needs to be done and have none-cooperative children who refuse to learn how to CYA with basic skills. At least she can boil water for her tea. (sigh)

Chimpsky, I understand exactly the point you are raising because it can be a bit daunting to jump in not knowing the background of members, or the topic, or subject matter. And even mudra was a bit overwhelmed by what Oxy brought to the table as he is quite brilliant in how he can step back and consider multiple points of view. I'm left sitting in the dust with shiloh's data yet with Brook's help and grocking some of it. Mudra brings a whole different perspective and lots of data that helps with one's inner spiritual growth.

Most of the posters are teachers/experts in their own right in their particular area of expertise. However, it is the collective that works best because this allows us to continue to grow and learn from one another.

For example, Oxy's posts triggers a different type of analytical thinking in order to respond to him. Shiloh's post require and lot of deep thought and taking tiny baby steps to get a sense of his level of understanding. Mudra's posts require one to enter into a meditative state, JT's and SiriArc's posts are inspirational. HigherLove provides us with data of what is happening around us. Mercuriel offers clarification on some of the deeper spiritual issues and the list goes on.

Everyone who shares helps everyone who reads understand a bit more of this information overload that we live in. We, or at least I am always learning something new everyday from those who post and I'm very grateful for this experience and to our members like Ashera, Beren, Blacklight43, Brook, burgundia, Calz_Avaretard, CetaceousOne, Chimpsky, devakas, dolphin, Emme, eMonkey, enemyofNWO, firefighterwolf, giovonni, greybeard, gscraig, HigherLove, investigator, Jenny, JesterTerrestrial, keith, Lad of the North, lawlessline, LeeEllisMusic, lilac, lindabaker, Lionhawk, LittleWorm, malletzky, MargueriteBee, Mercuriel, metaw3, Micjer, milkteagirl, mudra, Nazirite, orthodoxymoron, raregem, Raven, sabina, Sanicle, shiloh, solent, THEeXchanger to name a few. So I just want to say once again thank you to each of you for being here and thank you to those who bring something to the table (via your posts) to share with the rest of us. I very much appreciate your efforts and sharing.

Carol, thanks for the summary of where the main posters are comming from, thats really the kind of thing that should be on a persons profile, as I often look at someones profile for that very reason ( he says not having filled in his own )

I totally agree about learning how to live off the grid, we spent 18 months living in a small caravan ( US= trailer) whilst we converted the old agricutural building that is our home,living without things like a flushing toilet or hot water, its enough to derange anyone at first, but you adapt & learn.

I also keep a selection of books on things we would need to know should the grid go down, as well as things like seeds, tools and hunting & fishing gear, though I would not describe myself as a survivalist, just prudent.

As for the new age circus, Malletzky has nailed it IMO

Chimpsky wrote:
I also keep a selection of books on things we would need to know should the grid go down, as well as things like seeds, tools and hunting & fishing gear, though I would not describe myself as a survivalist, just prudent.

You know what this makes you Chimpsky? A "prepper."

TRANCOSO wrote:Galactic Federation of Lies - Eyes Only

Always Remember You Are Unique, Just Like Everyone Else...

Lord TRANSCOSO. There you are you scally-wag. I saw you hanging out at Roxy's.

Did mudra's troops find you?

So glad to have you pop back into our Mists.

Carol wrote:

TRANCOSO wrote:Galactic Federation of Lies - Eyes Only

Always Remember You Are Unique, Just Like Everyone Else...

Lord TRANSCOSO. There you are you scally-wag. I saw you hanging out at Roxy's.

Did mudra's troops find you?

So glad to have you pop back into our Mists.

Yes, & mind you; absolutely free of costs!

I mean, whadaya think 'they' pay me there?!



I admit, there ain't many websites yet where they accept green karma points as lethal $, but I have high hopes that one day soon - as in SaLuSa-soon - karma will be the One World Currency...

And I have of course a f#ckin' big audience!




Galactic Federation of Lies - Eyes Only

- Believe Me, Size Matters!

( )

"There Can Only Be One Ra!!" -- 'Stargate'

Those were cool posts, Carol and Malletsky! I guess I'm leaning toward a Pure and Modernized Minimalist-Christocentric, Egyptian, Babylonian, Grecian, and Roman style of living -- which is a combination of the simple and the complex -- where one might live in a Villa with Roman architecture -- grow their own food -- not own a car -- have three or four PhD's -- yet be 'down to earth' (figuratively and literally). My frustration is that I continue to experience profound frustration (and even a bit of hostility) as I continue to wallow in the madness. I just can't seem to achieve a Unified Theory of Life, the Universe, and Everything -- where everyone lives happily everafter. No matter how I put it together -- it's always wrong.