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    Grace Cathedral

    orthodoxymoron
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:23 am

    Grace Cathedral Episcopal Church, in San Francisco, CA is one of my favorite places. I have attended many services and concerts there. I continue to long for a reformed Roman Catholic Church - but in the meantime - this will have to do!

    1. http://www.gracecathedral.org/welcome/overview/
    2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Cathedral,_San_Francisco
    3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5rVP_upIsM&feature=related
    4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puFYCE_oNqQ&feature=related
    5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xiWZtUVsWE

    The alternative crowd - of which I am a willing participant - doesn't seem to have the roots, depth, organization, and discipline of the traditional church. Unfortunately, a lot of the theology of the traditional church is utter bs (Protestant, Catholic, All Churches). I really think the church MUST be reformed for the human race to really move forward. I see a bright future for a properly reformed church. Take a look at the book 'Evangelicals on the Canterbury Trail' for some insights regarding the attraction to the liturgical manner of doing church. I'm beginning to read the '1928 Book of Common Prayer' from cover to cover. It's better than the current one. Anyway - listen to some of the services on the Grace Cathedral website - and see what you think. http://www.gracecathedral.org/church/overview/ Then, perhaps we can talk about it. Grace to you!

    BTW - Angela is doing quite well at St. Mary's (and elsewhere) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0mmeBWZD-o&feature=related - pursuing her craft with enthusiasm (especially the Vierne), isn't she? But the Ruffatti is rank! What would Monseigneur Bowe say? Do you see what I'm saying? If not - Angela has been known to give sight to the blind...

    I'm including the following - mostly because of the beautiful music. There aren't a lot of Grace Cathedral clips on YouTube or Google. How were so many magnificent churches, organs, and pieces of music created - so long ago? They are inspiring - but there is a creepy side to them as well. What presence lurks within them? Do they really fit with the Life and Teachings of Jesus - or are they derived from another source - possibly the same source which produced the pyramids and other ancient architectural and artistic wonders throughout the world? I find it helpful to listen to this sort of music while reading about that which we discuss on this site. Finally - I keep thinking that the Queen of Heaven had something to do with all of this. Lucifer was supposedly the Minister of Music in Heaven prior to the Luciferian Rebellion. I have speculated that Lucifer and the Queen of Heaven might be the same being - or at least similar in nature. This is just more pseudo-intellectual venturing by an egotistical ignoramus.

    Saint Ouen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_of_St._Ouen,_Rouen

    1. Images http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=st+ouen+church+images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=jAb2TOXQGoT0tgPg_anlCw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQsAQwAA

    2. Boellmann https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueU4CDjn3v0

    3. Widor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmjpkvXbyII&feature=related

    4. Saint Saens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pny-Ily4SbE&feature=related

    5. Vierne https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCsnSXRpXug&feature=related

    6. Widor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWsDk77nBwg&feature=related

    7. Mulet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq8i69-L-Fs&feature=related

    8. Vierne https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE2aC8Vefjw&feature=related

    9. Widor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsyR40G2BeU&feature=related

    10. Widor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BxHcPcTyTU&feature=related

    Saint Sulpice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89glise_Saint-Sulpice,_Paris

    1. Images http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4GGIR_enUS216US217&q=st+sulpice+images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=xgn2TPfxBYGCsQOU_LDwAQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQsAQwAA

    2. Vierne https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZE2bEzeVw&feature=related

    3. Dupre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qBxZQfrTTQ&feature=related

    4. Dupre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOnr5uhoPlE&feature=related

    5. Dupre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRcMtB27z7E&feature=related

    6. Dupre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBjqrPAUg8&feature=related

    7. Dupre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mHOfP4MEfc&feature=related

    8. Dupre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X6cZfy9uR0

    9. Dupre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjqbee8cRyw&feature=related

    10. Dupre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tmnWhaQC4c&feature=related

    The time of the cathedrals may have arrived. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L24vaxNH91w&feature=related

    Latin Masses:

    1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE

    2. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1872714663680800365#docid=-4310737114054240867

    3. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1872714663680800365#docid=7583090662971128459

    4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uXURX5y4eE

    5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtk7D1pcwZY&feature=related

    6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94sa1Byb7fw

    7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM&feature=related

    8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueU4CDjn3v0

    Latin Mass Society of England and Wales http://www.latin-mass-society.org/

    LatinMass.org http://www.latinmass.org/

    Latin Mass Magazine http://www.latinmassmagazine.com/

    Latin Mass Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tridentine_Mass

    My speaking positively regarding Latin Masses, Classical Sacred Music, and the Teachings of Jesus - does not mean that I'm ready to jump into bed with Mother Church. I'm more Protestant than Protestantism. I seek nothing less than the complete purification, reformation, and liberation of the Roman Catholic Church. I truly see a bright future for the church - but the coming years may be extremely painful for everyone - including me. I used to think that the Second Coming of Christ would solve everything - and that we good people would go to Heaven - while the bad people burned. I don't think this way anymore. I think we will have to stay here in this solar system - reincarnating endlessly - and somehow make things work out reasonably well for everyone. We will have to make our bed - and sleep in it - whether we like it, or not.


    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:18 pm; edited 7 times in total
    orthodoxymoron
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:37 am

    This may seem like a strange thread for a renegade group such as this - but if you ever feel like going back to church - without going back to church - try going to Grace Cathedral - in the Mists of Avalon. We can discuss sermons, music, theology, architecture, etc. Have you ever heard of Bishop James Pike? This is an interesting personality who served at Grace Cathedral in the 60's. I might elaborate later - but for now - check it out for yourself.

    Perhaps I should follow both Grace Cathedral Episcopal Church and St. Mary's Cathedral Roman Catholic Church - as sort of a feeble attempt at ecumenism. Once again - I have a love/hate relationship with the whole religion thing. Finding peace in connection with all of this continues to elude me. I am quite literally a walking war-zone. Incoming Wormhole!! Unauthorized Off World Stargate Activation!!!! Goa'uld!!! The Power of Christ Compels You to Go Back to Abydos!!!!


    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:21 am; edited 3 times in total
    Carol
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    Post  Carol Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:12 am

    Lovely. Grace was one of my favorite places when we lived near SF.


    Mental Feng Shui

    This is without a doubt one of the nicest good luck forwards I have received .. Hope it works for you -- and me!



    This Lotus Touts is from the Anthony Robbins organization. Enjoy.


    ONE . Give people more than they expect and do it cheerfully .



    TWO . Marry a man/woman you love to talk to . As you get older, their conversational skills will be as important as any other .



    THREE . Don't believe all you hear, spend all you have or sleep all you want .



    FOUR . When you say, 'I love you,' mean it .



    FIVE . When you say, 'I'm sorry,' look the person in the eye .



    SIX . Be engaged at least six months before you get married .



    SEVEN . Believe in love at first sight .



    EIGHT . Never laugh at anyone's dreams . People who don't have dreams don't have much .



    NINE . Love deeply and passionately . You might get hurt but it's the only way to live life completely .



    TEN . In disagreements, fight fairly . No name calling .



    ELEVEN . Don't judge people by their relatives .



    TWELVE . Talk slowly but think quickly .



    THIRTEEN! . When someone asks you a question you don't want to answer, smile and ask, 'Why do you want to know?'



    FOURTEEN . Remember that great love and great achievements involve great risk .



    FIFTEEN . Say 'bless you' when you hear someone sneeze .



    SIXTEEN . When you lose, don't lose the lesson .



    SEVENTEEN . Remember the three R's: Respect for self; Respect for others; and Responsibility for all your actions .



    EIGHTEEN . Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship .


    NINETEEN . When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to correct it .



    TWENTY . Smile when picking up the phone . The caller will hear it in your voice .



    TWENTY- ONE . Spend some time alone .



    Now, here's the FUN part!


    A true friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart. Flowers


    _________________
    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
    orthodoxymoron
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:26 am

    Thank-you Carol! A lot of the really profound wisdom is really quite simple. Remembering to put it into practice is the hard part (for me anyway).
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:51 pm

    Danger! Danger! Will Robinson! Danger! This will be one of the most bizarre posts I have ever made. This is merely a brainstorm. Here goes.

    1. Combine the St. Mary's Cathedral Roman Catholic Church (San Francisco, CA) congregation with the Grace Cathedral Episcopal Church (San Francisco, CA) congregation - at Grace Cathedral. Hold separate Roman Catholic and Episcopal services - as well as joint non-sacrificial, non-penetential Ecumenical Namste Latin Mass services - while maintaining separate administrations and leadership.

    2. Deconsecrate St. Mary's Cathedral - and convert it into the new headquarters for a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka The United States of the Solar System. I believe the seating capacity is around 2,500 - so with 10,000 representatives - one in four would attend meetings - while the others would participate electronically - for logistical and security purposes. The United Nations was born in San Francisco - so why not hatch the new Solar System here as well?!

    3. Finish Grace Cathedral - ceiling, additional parking, etc. Replace the 1974 Cassavant addition to the G. Donald Harrison, Aeolian Skinner pipe-organ with the four manual Reiger pipe-organ (French Romantic tonal design) from Pacific Union College (Angwin, CA) http://www.emusic.com/album/Robert-Noehren-BACH-J-S-Organ-Music-The-Rieger-Organ-of-Pacif-MP3-Download/11260429.html - and move the Cassavant to P.U.C. - giving A.D.R.A. a generous ten million dollar donation - cover all moving and installation costs - and donate two million dollars to a needy-student fund at P.U.C. Don't get mad at me. Remember - this is just a brainstorm.

    What would Harriet Crocker Alexander say? What would Monseigneur Bowe say? What would Pope John Paul I say? What would Mother Teresa say? What would the Queen of Heaven say? What would Ellen White say? What would SaLuSa say? What would Monka do? What would Jesus do?

    Any questions?


    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:52 pm; edited 4 times in total
    Carol
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    Post  Carol Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:04 pm

    Absolutely brilliant Oxy. I want to be in the choir.


    _________________
    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
    orthodoxymoron
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:27 pm

    Thank-you Carol. There's a lot more to my proposal than one might think. St. Mary's Cathedral is really cool - but it doesn't really look like, or feel like, a church. Grace Cathedral looks and feels like a church - in the Roman Catholic and Anglican tradition. Consolidation of expenses would result in HUGE savings to both congregations. This would also be an experiment in ecumenism. I knew a ship captain, who as a young Roman Catholic student - interviewed Bishop James Pike - at Grace Cathedral. The Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System idea would be an experiment, as well. It would start out without a lot of authority - as sort of a dry-run, to get things up and running - and then when it was properly primed - it would go live. The organ transplant would make so much sense. A Stanford DMA organist gave me the idea. We are both tracker-backers. I think Angela is too! The P.U.C. organ is magnificent - but the building sucks! Plus, it sticks out like an erected organ - visually, and with reference to the original mission of the SDA church. There's a time and a place for everything.


    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:32 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  Carol Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:36 pm

    I like it best when the entire mass is sung. I used to have visions of a single church in the center of the village where the various denominations would rotate through for their various services. Then it truly was EVERYBODIES church.


    _________________
    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:04 pm

    Carol wrote:I like it best when the entire mass is sung. I used to have visions of a single church in the center of the village where the various denominations would rotate through for their various services. Then it truly was EVERYBODIES church.

    I quite agree! I worry about corrupt and cruel centralized secular and sacred leadership - but I really do seek the right kind of unity - without peace at any price. I love the artistic aspects of the traditional church - but theologically and politically, I think we need to move on.
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    Post  Carol Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:09 pm

    eliminate politics and leaders... the focus is on the mass or service. Everyone contributes to the upkeep of the site and that can be rotated or shared together. People do not need to be told what to do but they do need to know what needs to be done allowing each to contribute where they see fit according to their own skills and talents. To be perfectly frank Oxy, what ruins any church are those who are into power and choose to become petty tyrants just because they can.


    _________________
    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:23 pm

    Carol wrote:eliminate politics and leaders... the focus is on the mass or service. Everyone contributes to the upkeep of the site and that can be rotated or shared together. People do not need to be told what to do but they do need to know what needs to be done allowing each to contribute where they see fit according to their own skills and talents. To be perfectly frank Oxy, what ruins any church are those who are into power and choose to become petty tyrants just because they can.

    I guess that's one reason why I like the basic Latin Mass style of service. It's more of a meditative and private experience. I don't like announcements, shouted-sermons, offering-collections, appeals for money and souls, board-meetings - and I HATE nominating-committee meetings (I witnessed a power-struggle shouting-match once upon a time).


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    Post  orthodoxymoron Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:19 am

    Just for the fun of it - I am going to think of St. Mary's Cathedral as being the new headquarters of The United States of the Solar System. I know that would bring on hacking laughter from the general public - but we have to start somewhere - don't we? Then - I will think of Grace Cathedral as being an Ecumenical Roman Catholic / Anglican/Episcopal experimental church. This is just a conceptual game - but some of you might like to try playing this with me. I'm just trying to get SOMETHING going - and not particularly my feeble ideas and concepts. This is all to facilitate creative thinking in other people - which will hopefully lead to profound and lasting answers and solutions. This will undoubtedly be a very rocky process - and I'm not expecting too much, too soon.
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    Post  Carol Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:16 am

    Grace Cathedral Grace-cathedral-2
    Grace Cathedral - San Francisco

    Grace Cathedral Grace_cathedral

    Grace Cathedral Usca43248

    Grace Cathedral Senn_Cathedral1



    Grace Cathedral St_Mary%27s_Cathedral_-_San_Francisco
    St Mary's Cathedral - San Francisco

    Agreed Oxy..


    Grace Cathedral 2261420639_4a2ebb5e73
    Grace Cathedral 3311663490_36a475149d_b
    cheers


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    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:27 am

    Thank-you Carol. Those are terrific pictures. I know that true spirituality and civility should not be centered in buildings, systems, and externals - but sometimes these things are necessary and helpful.
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    Post  Carol Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:48 am

    yw Oxy. If one is going to speak of a particular location it helps to see what it really looks like to understand your viewpoint better. Grace is much more spiritually uplifting while Mary appeals more to the left brain and the logical mind.


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    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:53 am

    I don't think we need to build any more big churches and cathedrals - but we do need to properly care for and use the ones which already exist. Pope John Paul I apparently wished to build orphanages instead of churches. I think a lot of smaller churches (especially those with horrible architecture and acoustics) should be closed. The consolidation of administration, and the influx of members into the larger churches could help them conduct really cool ministries. This is just a feeble attempt to be ecumenical, globalist, constitutionalist, traditionalist, and minimalist. The internet allows all of us to be think-tanks of one. This is sort of a click and mortar thread. Visualizing Grace as the church center - and St. Mary's as the state center - in the context of technological and progressive San Francisco, CA - helps me to conceptualize a lot of what I have been grappling with. Also - thinking of an underground base - under both St. Mary's and Grace - with a magneto-leviton train going straight to Area 51 - makes the plot a helluva lot more interesting. I'm trying to think in post-apocalyptic terms - and I'd like to completely skip the Apocalypse - and go straight to Nirvana!
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    Post  Carol Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:20 pm

    Okay Oxy, you've got enough material and a good plot going it's time to start writing your own book. Lolerz

    I like the smaller churches and have been attending ones in rural areas. They are much more personal and friendly. I think larger institutions tend to go the impersonal route just due to shear numbers.


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    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Post  DiVineEnvy Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:57 pm

    Carol wrote:yw Oxy....Grace is much more spiritually uplifting while Mary appeals more to the left brain and the logical mind.
    Paradoxically, left+right brain engineer and architect Pier Luigi Nervi's St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco exhibits interesting form generating potential. Witness the so-called "two o'clock tit". This makes St. Mary's mysterious to me - that an architecture of such formal specificity can cast shadows of an organic and voluptuous nature.

    Grace Cathedral Jeffersonparktitty

    Grace Cathedral The-two-oclock-titty-17658-1238084359-80
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    Post  Carol Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:09 pm

    OMG! A two o'clock tit on the side of the Catholic Church! That is hysterical. I would have not noticed it until you pointed it out D.

    Oxy, the Divine Fem is there - displayed or all to see in all her glory.

    I also have another little tidbit out of the book Learning From the Light of someone who had a NDE encounter with Mary Mag. You might enjoy it.


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    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:23 pm

    Tit for Tat! Howard Hughes liked that term! What would Raven say? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd0WOD9yw0E I have participated in a couple of small Episcopal churches, and one small Roman Catholic church - and would not wish for them to be closed. Tangentially - I am rewatching 'Contact'. Please watch this, and notice the philosophical and theological connection. Palmer Joss = Jesus Christ? Rachel = Mary? Mr. Haddon = Aldebaran / Gizeh Intelligence / Nazi / ????? Just more uneducated speculation from an egotistical ignoramus.


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    Post  Carol Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:46 pm

    I really enjoyed watching Contact, particularly when she was in awe traveling through dimensions saying they should have sent a poet.


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    What is life?
    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:21 pm

    In 'Contact' - who was Mr. Haddon the equivalent of? He was obviously heavily involved in the secret space program. Did his death coincide with the 'space flight'? Was this coincidental? What is the true nature of our alleged secret space program? Well, I'm going to give it a rest for a few days - or a few weeks. Namaste.
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    Post  Raven Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:27 am


    Body Temple
    Grace Cathedral Nyc_9Grace Cathedral Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRaSOWVWaEKWOZ3gxHQvZJrUug-yvSgGndQpoR3afoHRRFBVwA


    Grace Cathedral Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_S3JBHeWz6mzPYylveX4LmktifXJ79Hie8uI3gOi40LF-YsWxGrace Cathedral Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBHoONODdUr4IgewADFg2MREB-MU6-xxFy0b-GAa9dQJW4h19IUg
    Grace Cathedral Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_3EO0pCoALZxg8C2bzkGxtYgsjyUnP2EylrMRKJOtswR_WEp9nQGrace Cathedral Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEKg9QU85HeIUfNHeW5cRrZUrBu0nXwtcG9aF7YYVg3rkSG9m29w
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    orthodoxymoron
    orthodoxymoron

    Posts : 11441
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    Grace Cathedral Empty Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:48 am

    Thank-you Raven. Nice artwork. I especially liked the stained-glass window. Can you imagine seeing that at Chartres?
    DiVineEnvy
    DiVineEnvy

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    Join date : 2010-11-21

    Grace Cathedral Empty Re: Grace Cathedral

    Post  DiVineEnvy Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:31 am

    Not to diminish either of your paths orthodoxymoron and Raven, but I would tend to agree that tantric stained glass would not fly very well at Chartres. It is my experience that we live in an age of excess. The temple, whether external or inner, is too often overwhelmed by a non-stop barrage of forms, ideas and images. A voluntary fast of the senses might be the preferred prelude to inner work.

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