PAOLA HARRIS'S REME BACA UFO TRANSCRIPT - PERMISSION TO POST TRANSCRIPT WORLDWIDE!

Paola has asked our help in posting her transcript with Reme Baca on Mists and requests members and guests to please post this interview everywhere. She also has a copy of the transcript in French which is available and 10 photos that anyone may use along with the story to post at other websites, other news media and elsewhere.

My good friend Paola Harris was on www.coasttocoastam.com Dec 1st: Investigative journalist and UFO researcher Paola Harris discussed important new details about a 1945 UFO crash in San Antonio, New Mexico including microscopic analysis of actual materials taken from the UFO. Also, the now grown children who witnessed the crash and beings inside the craft shared their testimony.

Please have a listen as her witnesses were present and had artifacts they took from the ship along with seing the beings inside. Amazing info.

Hosted by George Noory

In case you missed it here is the blog on what Paola talked about.


Investigative journalist and UFO researcher Paola Harris shared details about a 1945 UFO crash in San Antonio, New Mexico including microscopic analysis of actual materials taken from the UFO. Also, the now grown children, Jose Padilla and Reme Baca, who witnessed the crash, shared their testimony. Harris described the incident when the boys aged 7 and 9 were out on family property during a major thunderstorm and saw an object crash into the ground, leaving a half-mile trench. The two boys went near the craft and saw a piece had broken off.

Padilla described the crash as sounding like a sonic boom, and thought it could have been an atomic bomb test. The crashed object, he said, was around 35 ft. in diameter, and 15 ft. high. Baca said they witnessed thin-bodied creatures inside the craft, resembling "praying mantises," while Padilla characterized them as three little men who were rushing back and forth like they were injured. The boys returned to the crash site two days later with adults, and the creatures were gone, but the craft was still there.

Later, the military arrived and requested to cut a gate on the Padilla's property in order to remove a "weather balloon." It was during this time that the boys climbed into the craft and pulled an aluminum bracket off, which many years later they had analyzed by an electron microscope which showed unusual properties-- tiny structures that look like fossils (see photos below). For more, read Harris' interview with Padilla & Baca.


Personal note: I did have an opportunity to read the entire interview transcript which is in Paola's new book coming out in January and Baca also has a book coming out as well.

Link to interview and photos below.

Read interview below.

http://www.paolaharris.com/remebacashort.html

UFO Crash Remnants - December 01, 2010
Paola Harris photos of the metal that witnesses (Jose Padilla/Reme Baca) reportedly pulled off the craft in the 1945 San Antonio, NM crash case. The first image shows electron microscope analysis of a panel piece pulled off by a 9 year old Jose Padilla, with possible embedded integrated circuits. The second picture shows the panel piece in a regular photo.

Hi Carol, this is one of the best and most interesting interviews yet! Paola did a great job.

The bracket "souvenir" that the boys kept looks like something one could pick up in a hardware store yet the electron analysis of this artifact displays strange and unusual designs. Reminds me a tiny bit of some of the petroglyphs I saw recently in the Four Corners area.

If you weren't able to catch the interview on Wednesday you can try the links below.

COAST TO COAST AM New Mexico UFO Crash

Date: 12-01-10

Host: George Noory

Guests: Paola Harris, Maryanna Korwitts



DOWNLOAD LINK


http://www.disclose.tv/forum/coast-to-coast-am-new-mexico-ufo-crash-paola-harris-12-01-10-t37527.html

http://cgiwsc.enhancedsitebuilder.com/e ... 0Crash.rar

PART 1


The 1945 San Antonio New Mexico Crash


Born on the edge of Ground Zero , living in the shadow of Area 51, two little Hispanic children experienced an extraordinary event occurred in August of 1945.
Jose Padilla, age 9 and Reme Baca, age 7 witnessed a saucer crash on Padilla land in the town San Antonio, New Mexico. They were witness to one of the most spectacular events in UFO history.


This new book entitled the same “Born the Edge of Ground Zero, Living in the Shadow of Area 51, will be released February 2011 and is Jose Padilla’s and Reme Baca’s detailed account of what happened in their childhood. They explain what they saw the actual crash, the creature’s appearances, the pieces they took, the military clean up and an in-depth analysis of the significance of this case.

First printed in The Mountain Mail, Soccorro, New Mexico on November 2, 2003 by journalist Ben Moffet, the case was passed to me, journalist/researcher, Paola Harris in May 4, 2009. The desire to finally disclose the details and the kind invitation of Reme Baca, led me to fly to Gig Harbor in Washington State in the Northern part of the United States to interview witness Reme Baca and his wife, Virginia in July 2010. Consequently because he now lives in California, I interviewed Jose Padilla by telephone from the Baca house. During my two day stay, I was able to see and photograph the piece that Jose extracted from the craft and study the detailed analysis of its composition done in Europe.

It is one of the most astounding cases I have ever covered in my career and it helps complete the puzzle of why there has been so many crash retrievals in New Mexico. As journalist Ben Moffet who so beautifully describes the cover-up, we can begin to see where it fits in UfO history.

“It was in this crucible of suspicion and disinterest bred by familiarity that a small contingent of the U.S. Army passed almost unnoticed through San Antonio in mid-to-late August, 1945 on a secret assignment.

Little or nothing has been printed about the mission, shrouded in the "hush-hush" atmosphere of the time. But the military detail apparently came from White Sands Proving Grounds to the east where the bomb was exploded. It was a recovery operation destined for the mesquite and greasewood desert west of Old US-85, at what is now Milepost 139, the San Antonio exit of Interstate 25.
Over the course of several days, soldiers in Army fatigues loaded the shattered remains of a flying apparatus onto a huge flatbed truck and hauled it away. That such an operation took place between about Aug. 20 and Aug. 25, 1945, there is no doubt, insist two former San Antonioans, Remigio Baca and Jose Padilla, eyewitnesses to the event.
Padilla, then age 9, and Baca, 7, secretly watched much of the soldiers' recovery work from a nearby ridge.”

Thanks to the work of Ben Moffet, and now thanks to the witnesses themselves, currently in their 70’s, the world will know see that there was certain extraterrestrial interest in our discovery of the atomic bomb. It opened up a Pandora’s box in human history that cannot easily be closed. It put humanity and possibly other dimensional visitors in danger of total destruction. San Antonio was more than a crash, a sighting, an event. It was a warning that the military today is not heeding, whether it is in the US. or abroad. If we add the courageous testimony Air Force panel led by Robert Hastings and seven retired USAF officers at the Washington Press club on October,27th of 2010 , then we realize the time has come to speak. If these visitors have the capacity of UFOS to either disable or shoot down our nuclear missiles, then we can see that 70 years later, they are taking action.

Ultimately, 1945 San Antonio case presents a peaceful message, a powerful warning to the planet.


Interview With Reme Baca, Washington State
Jose Padilla in California (On the Telephone)
July 5th, 2010


P: After you saw the crash you brought people back there. And who did you bring back? You brought back who?
R: Well, not me.
P: Who brought them back?
R: What happened is that after the crash, we went home, back to the ranch.
P: Can you tell me the date of this? The approximate date of this? We know it’s 1945.
R: 1945, August.
P: It’s in the month of August.
R: And it was like the 15th.
P: Around the 15th. That 15th of August, you know, is the Feast of the Madonna. It’s the greatest feast in Italy. Okay, never mind. It’s a major date. Okay, so it’s around the 15th, so whose dad was it that sent you, and you were how old?
R: I was age 7 and Jose was 9. Jose’s dad Faustino had asked us a couple of days earlier, to find a cow that was ready to have a calf.
P: And you were on two separate horses.
R: Yes, we were on two separate horses.
P: So it was during the day you went?
R: Yes. Here’s what he told us. You know, Faustino said, when you get a chance, I want you to go out and check that cow because it’s getting ready to calve, and we want to make sure that we get it before somebody else gets it, and puts their brand on it. And so you need to, as you get a chance, to go do that. What we were doing periodically, is that we’d get on horseback and go up and check all the fences, “riding fence” is what we called it. Check the fences - make sure they weren’t broken. If they are, you repair them, you have a small tool kit, If a post is down you prop it up and later on you come back and replace it. So we’d ride the fences, and when we were done with that, we’d go up to the top of the hills and take inventory. Jose would look through his binoculars and count the stock. I’d write the numbers down. Count the cows. While twenty-five head of Cattle may not sound like much, Faustino had purchased some white face cattle from Spain, and was in the process of starting a white face herd. They seemed to do well in that type of terrain.
P: Count the cows? Okay. No, I believe you.
R: So that’s what we’d do. And then of course in the winter when it snowed, we’d sometimes have to break up the ice in the water trough, so that the animals could eat, and transport bales of hay or alfalfa to windmill area, so the animals could eat.
P: This was during the day that you guys went?
R: Yes, this was during the day. Jose would come over on his horse and we saddled mine and we took off. My mom was aware that we’re going to go do some work on the Padilla Ranch.
P: He was 9 and you were 7.
R: Yes. We went over looking for that cow. And so while we were there, it was not abnormal in late summer, to have thunderstorms and lightning and this time was no different so we took refuge under a ledge. Then we continued on. We had dismounted because the terrain was steep and rocky and horses don’t do well on rocks, they hurt their hooves.We replaced the bridles with rope and tied them so they could graze and we continued on foot. We walked and came up to where there was a clump of mesquite bushes, creosote, or greasewood as they called in the day, pine, sage, and cactus. As we walked towards the clump of mesquite we heard a moan and we discovered it was the cow we were looking for, and it had given birth to a calf. This was part of the beginning of the start of a new herd called a “whiteface” herd. A red cow with a white face and white feet. Faustino had purchased a cow and a bull from Spain and was breeding them. Whiteface was one of the cattle breeds they used in the United States for meat at that time. So we found it and then we went down into a little area where there was a ledge. Jose had packed a lunch, a couple of tortillas and I think a couple of apples. We sat down to eat that and the storm and rains came. We got under there so we wouldn’t get too wet. Then it just kind of sprinkled a little bit and was all over. We were getting ready to go up and take another look at the cow and see if it was eating and take a closer look at the calf. While we were doing that, we heard this loud bang.
P: You heard the actual crash.
R: We didn’t know it was a crash at that time. We heard this sound, like when the bomb went off.
P: The same sound as like when the bomb went off?
R: Similar to same sound as when the bomb went off and it was still fresh in our minds. When the bomb went off Jose and his mother were up early in the morning. The bomb went off after his dad left for work. Jose’s mother looked at the flash through the crack in the door jab and as a result of the exposure, she lost sight in that eye. According to Jose, they felt the heat wave, and the rumbling of the ground.
P: So the sound was familiar?
R: Very familiar. They were closer to the bomb explosion than I was, my bed crashed against the wall and it bounced me out of it, my mother got up and tried to explain that it was probably that storm that that was causing all this.
P: Going back to the actual story, you heard this sound?
R: We heard this sound and the ground shook, and so memories came back of the atomic bomb explosion. Are they testing again or what? So we looked around, saw smoke coming from maybe a couple of canyons down, up that way. So Jose says, “let’s go over and take a look, see what’s going on.” We started walking, and we saw a little smoke coming from that direction. As we reached the ridge, the smoke became intense. Then we worked our way down the ridge so we could see what appeared to be a big gouge in the ground. It looked like a road grader had been in there. We were not aware that anyone had a 100-foot wide grader, but it sure looked like a 100-foot wide blade had been here, grading about a foot deep. We started walking up this graded road, it was pretty rough on our feet and it was warm. The bottoms of our feet felt hot.
P: And do you remember around what time it was?
R: I didn’t have a watch. Probably 4 or 5 in the afternoon, maybe later.
P: I’m asking because you can see what you’re looking at, it’s not dark.
R: No, it’s not dark. But as we look up this graded road, there’s a lot of smoke. So we retreated to where we could get some air and take a drink from the canteen and kind of recollect our thoughts and try to understand what this is all about. I asked Jose, “is that a plane that went down?” I’ve only seen planes in the air. We live in a small town. Don’t see many planes. Jose says, “Don’t know, maybe somebody might be hurt and maybe we need to help them. “I said ok, okay, and so we continued trying to get closer. We could see something over on the edge of that graded gash.
P: The path that the grader left?
R: The path that the craft left. It doesn’t go just straight. It goes and then it makes a right turn, like an “L”. We could see something but you know, there’s so much dust in the air, and it’s humid from the rain and then some of that brush, that oily brush is burning so the smoke’s coming into your eyes, it’s really hard to see and make any sense of it at all. We went back up and rested, returned, and Jose has his binoculars out and starts looking to see what it are. He says,“You know there’s something over there. Let’s see if we can get any closer.” Again, we try to get closer and finally it starts clearing up a little. The time seems to be going by very fast. We’re looking through the binoculars and I could see the hole on the side of this object. The object is avocado shaped.
P: So it’s a round object like an avocado and you could see there’s a hole. How far would you say you guys were from the object?
R: I would estimate about a couple of hundred feet.
P: Oh, you did get a couple hundred feet close?
R: Yes, about a hundred feet.
P: And then you saw the inside of the hole from the couple hundred feet?
R: No, not the inside of the hole. Jose says, “look at this.”So I was looking through thee binoculars at these little creatures moving back and forth.
P: Were they moving really fast?
R: They were “like“ sliding.
P: They were sliding?
R: Not sliding, but more like willing themselves from one place to another-that type of sliding. And as I’m looking at that, things began happening to my mind.
P: Oh, really?
R: I’m seeing them and I’m feeling this crazy stuff, like I really feel sorry for them.
P: Um, hmm…
R: And I really feel sorry, like they’re kids, too.
P: And you had a concern for them. And you’re thinking, did you feel something because of the accident?
R: Yes, I think so; I’m hearing this high-pitched sound coming from there. We didn’t know what to think. The only high-pitched sounds we were familiar with were of Jack Rabbits when they were in pain, and also the sound that comes out of a newborn baby when it cries.
P: I find this interesting. So you heard this same sound?
R: And so that was pretty moving to us. Then we saw these pictures in our heads.
P: You did see pictures in your head?
R: Yes, but I didn’t know what the heck they were.
P: In other words, you got a telepathic transfer from these beings - you think?
R: Yes, if that’s what it was.
P: But you can’t remember what they were. But you remember that you got pictures.
R: I can remember what they are, I got pictures, but I didn’t know what they meant then, and I still don’t know.
P: So they obviously knew you were there?
R: Yes, they must have known we were there.
P: Could they see you if they ever looked out?
R: I don’t know..
P: But I mean, there was a hole…if they looked up, could they see these two little boys?
R: Yes, I’m sure they could, if they could see.
P: This was about 200 feet?
R: Yes, it was about 200 feet from us. However, there was smoke and dust, so it was not very clear.
P: If the beings looked out and they were looking at you, you not only could see them, maybe they were transferring those images to you. So what did you guys to, run away?
R: we looked at them and now it was starting to get dark and we had a long hike to get to the horses and back to the ranch. But Jose wants to go in, and I don’t.
P: He wanted to go inside the ship? Jose wanted to go inside.
R: And I’m saying, Jose, “what is it? “ His response is “I don’t know.” Okay. If you don’t know what the heck this is, I ain’t going into it. There’s no way. “I wanna go home. I don’t want to go in. You’ll have to go by yourself. I’m going home, I’ll meet you at the ranch.” And he says, “Well let’s watch for a little while. You know, maybe you’re right. I don’t know what they are. They kinda look like kids, very strange kids.”
P: So you had a whole conversation about this?
R: Oh, yes. And so he says, well okay, let’s just watch for a little longer and then we need to get back home. Your mom’s probably worried, it’s getting late, and I sure dad’s worried….
P: Can I ask you if you and Jose had a conversation about this, about what you saw, in these years?
R: Jose left San Antonio in 1954 and I left in 1955. During the years we were there, yes we talked about it. From 1955 to 2002, we had no contact. Since 2002, we have compared notes.
P: Have you compared notes? And does he remember things?
R: Better than I do.
P: Better than you do. Oh, good. Okay.
R: He has a photographic mind.
P: Okay. All right.
R: He started school at the age of 4.
P: Okay, that’s wonderful but we have already got a testimony. So if I was to ask you about the diameter of this thing, how big would say it was? Did you try to compare to something or…
R: We know. We stepped it off. Remember when we went and pulled that Tesoro off, and the object had been loaded on the tractor trailer.
P: Yes?
R: That’s when we stepped it off.
P: So you stepped it off. What are we looking at? How many feet?
R: About twenty-five or 30 feet long. Thirty-feet long. Okay. R: Fourteen-feet high. How do I know? Because of the rafters of a house are fourteen-feet tall
P: So you got that much information? Okay. So at what point then did you guys turn around and walk away? I mean, you were trying to figure out what to do and then what? Did you just turn around?
R: Well, we finally agreed that we ought to go home because it was getting late.
P: Okay.
R: So we started off, went down and got on our horses and started off. It was getting dark then and it was pitch dark by the time we got to the ranch. And Jose’s dad was waiting for us. He was worried. So we went in and Jose told him the story about the cow and then he started telling him about the crash.
P: Yes.
R: And I told him what I saw and so his dad says, well, the first thing we got to do is we got to get you home. We’ll look into this in the next day or so. It probably belongs to the government, and that’s probably it. We need to maybe stay away from thereAnd so they drove me home, I left my horse there and they took care of it. They drove me home and Faustino had a long talk with my mom regarding the object that we had discovered on the Padilla ranch. Faustino emphasized it might endanger his job, since my dad worked for the government.
P: Oh, okay.
R: My dad worked for the Veterans Hospital in Albuquerque, and Jose’s dad worked for the Federal Refuge in development, El Bosque Del Apache near San Antonio.
P: Where were they employed before?
R: W.P.A (Work Projects Administration) – C.C.Camps, (Civilian Conservation Corps). Conrad Hilton, who owned several businesses in San Antonio and Mr. Alliare who owned a mercantile business there also, also employed them.
P: Before that?
R: Yes, before that.
P: In their younger days?
R: And so that was basically what happened that night. The following day, Jose came over to my house, and I went with him to his house, where we met Eddie Apodaca who was a State Policeman, and a friend of the family. Faustino had asked him to go with us to the crash site. They rode in the state police car, and we rode in the pickup truck. We drove as far as we could get with the vehicles, and we walked the rest of the way to the crash site. When we got close to the crash site, looking down from the hill, we couldn’t see the object.
P: What do you mean, did you get very close to the crash site?
R: We are not talking about flat land here. We are talking about hills, canyons, and arroyos. Standing on top of a hill, looking downwards where we had seen the object, it was no longer visible to us, at that time. No explanation why. We simply could not see it. It seemed gone. Jose says well, “I don’t know what’s going on here.” Eddy and Faustino said, “What did you say you saw?” My response was, it’s down there, but we can’t see it. Faustino said let’s walk down there and take a look. We started walking down and then we saw it. The object had a lot of debris over it and so I’m asking Faustino, how come we couldn’t see it from up there. His response was that he didn’t know.
P: You’re saying it was almost invisible.
R: I almost couldn’t see it. Then we got there and they said okay, you guys stay here and we’re going to go in.
P: So, Reme, they went in. So what did they find?
R: What ever they found, they did not tell us. What I do know is they found a complete change of attitude. When we were coming down the hill towards the crashed object, they were doubting us a lot.
P: Yes, I know, I know.
R: So they went in and we stood there, sat down and watched them. And they were in there 5 or 10 minutes and came out. They had a change of attitude, a complete change of attitude. They were almost like different people. They had seen something they’d never seen before. They came out and said, okay. Here’s the way it is. I want you guys to listen. This is very difficult. You’re under oath. You don’t tell anybody about this, not your brother, not your cousin, not your mother, not your father, that’s our business. We’ll take care of that. And the reason for this is that you can get in trouble. We want to keep you out of trouble. So we agreed to that and they gave us a really big lecture, and so we took it very serious.

PART 2

P: But did they ever tell you what they saw inside?
R: No.
P: They never described it?
R: No. They didn’t say what they saw.
P: They didn’t? But obviously they didn’t see any of the creatures because they weren’t there.
R: They weren’t concerned. Because we asked them about the creatures, where are they, because we can’t see them through that big hole. There’s no creatures there. They said, “Well, you know, maybe they took off. Maybe somebody took them. Maybe.
P: Was there any evidence the Army had been there? Any?
R: Evidence? We saw something like a broom, or rake mark, but then again, it could be some animal, insect or snake that made those marks.
P: Because logically if the military had taken the creatures, they would also have had to show that they had been there in some way. In other words, they waited at least 24 hours before taking the craft.
R: Maybe they did show that they had been there, but we were not aware. Well, before taking the craft?
P: The craft.
R: No, the craft itself took days to get taken out of there.
P: How many days?
R: Oh, probably, several days. First they would bring in some road building equipment, build a gate, bring in a semi-truck with a low-boy trailer, build a frame on the trailer, bring in a crane and load the craft on to the tractor trailer.
P: Two or three days, or more? Did you go back just that once to that area? No, you went back to see it again. Correct?
R: We went back several times. Jose went sometimes with and sometimes without me. You know, we were kids. We worked that area. As kids our dad gives us a little money for doing that work, and if we didn’t, who would? .
P: Had both of you talked about going inside yourselves? Is that why you guys were going back there?
R: Yes. And we went there the second day, we were curious.
P: Okay. You were going to go in there.
R: Then we were going in there, and we were going to go and see what we could find. We went there on a workday, before Faustino and Apodaca went with us.
It was in the afternoon, after we had gotten done with our work.
P: Before Apodaca and Faustino went with you?
R: That’s right.
P: You went back on your own on the second day.
R: Not on our own, we were working in that area. We checked that fence too. We had some fences to fix and fence poles to replace.There were cattle with calves around there also
P: So what happened?
R: Finally, we got there in the late afternoon, we were on horseback and came in from a different direction looking from the opposite side of the ridge, we saw some military people picking up stuff.
P: Okay. Well, that’s what I had just asked you before. How did you know the military was there before, you said the creatures weren’t there?
R: The military wasn’t there all the time.
P: But the creatures were gone and I was wondering, the military must have been there to take them?
R: We did not see the military take them. If they did, it was before we arrived. But we never got to check the craft, all we got to do was go down and get some of the debris and threw it in this crevice and we tried to cover it with dirt and rocks. After the two jeeps left, it was already getting dark and we had to get home.
P: And that’s the dig that you ultimately someday want to do.
___
R: Yes, that’s the one.
P: What did that material feel like, the material that you threw into the trench? Was it like, you know, like lead or was it soft or like aluminum, or how was it? Do you have a piece of it? Was it like stone?
R: Kind of like this piece that I’m holding in my hand.
P: It was like this?
R: It was hard. On the first day, I had gotten a piece of that aluminum foil type, and showed it to Jose. It reminded me of the aluminum foil that came in the Philip Morris cigarettes that my mother smoked. I took that and put it in my pocket…
P: Whatever happened to that?
R: I used it to repair the windmill cylinder.
P: So the second day basically you waited until the military went away. And you got more pieces, dragged them into the trench, but you didn’t see the beings then.
R: Too far from the crevice and it was getting dark. The military had been there, we saw them, but I don’t think they saw us.
P: The thing was left there and then the next day Jose’s father and Apodaca went.
R: Right.
P: And you took them there. Okay. And then did you see it again? The craft?
R: Yes, it was still there.
P: I mean, you went there a fourth day, yourselves?
R: No, no. Then after, probably the third or fourth day Jose came over to my house and we picked some chilies, green peppers, tomatoes because we had a vegetable garden and they didn’t, and we filled a couple of bags with vegetables and we took one to his house. We went in the back door. And as we go in there was a military vehicle in front and there’s a soldier there at the screen door talking to his dad, so we go around the back and in through the kitchen to join them. Faustino says, come on in here boys. So we joined him and he’s talking to a Sgt. Avila, and he invites him in. Sgt. Avila says “I’m with the US Army and what I need to do is permission from you to go in and cut the fence and put in a gate because we have one of our “experimental weather balloons” that inadvertently fell on your property.
P: He called it an weather balloon? Those words?
R: An experimental weather balloon, and so we need to recover that, so we need permission to do that. So his dad says, “Why can’t you come in through the cattle guard like everybody else does instead of cutting my fence down?” And he says, “Because the equipment that we’re going to bring in is wider than your cattle guard, it won’t fit through there. He says, “In the mean time, you have a gate that locks that up and we need to have a key so we can get in there and cut that fence and put in a gate.” He says, “We’ll put in a good gate for you. And then we need to bring in some road-building equipment, some graters and so forth and see if we can grade a road to get that truck in there to get that weather balloon out of there.” So finally Jose’s father says, “Okay,” and they both spoke mostly in Spanish. He says, “Okay, go ahead and do that.” He says, “Keep an eye on the place and make sure nobody goes there because you know, this is really important, you know, we don’t let anybody know about it.” We don’t want to cause any trouble for anybody, and so try and keep an eye on it, so nobody that hasn’t any business going there, doesn’t go there. And so, Faustino say, “Okay”, and Sgt. Avila left and that’s when they officially began the process of preparing the area to take the object away. The recovery wasn’t like what we read in UFO books, people in purple uniforms dropping in from helicopters, everything sanitized. Nothing like that.
P: And they weren’t wearing protective clothing?
R: Yes they were wearing fatigues. They put up a tent, played a radio, western music.
P: You were watching them, then?
R: Yes, we were watching them, as often as we could, sometimes in the morning, and evening. It was our job to check and maintain the fences, keep track of the herd, including horses. We could hear the radio music going. There was one guy there at the tent, and two or three working, picking up the debris. They bring in this tractor-trailer, they have a welder, acetylene welder, and they build this rack so they can get the craft on it because it’s got to go on sideways. Then we figured out they were doing that because they had to go under the overpass at a forty-five degree angle in order to clear it.
P: Did they tie it up or put a tarp over it?
R: Yes, put a tarp on it.
P: And tied it up.
R: These soldiers were kids, and they went to the Owl bar and café a lot.
P: Was that the Owl Cafe?
R: The Owl Bar and Café. And so the Owl Bar and Café was run by Estanislado Miera. In the parking lot, they had a basketball hoop, where we played. They had what they called a Fountain where they sold ice cream and shakes, food. They also had a jukebox. So that’s where the soldiers went to socialize. And so we would go there and play hoops and then sometimes Estanislado would come out and ask us to help him. Sometimes we would help grind up meat for hamburgers, wash dishes, clean the place up.
P: And so these guys went there?
R: And yes, that’s where they went for lunch, that’s where they went for dinner.
P: And you saw them pick up debris at the crash site?
R: Yes
P: They left the ship. And explain to me how you got this metal.
R: On the final day when they brought in a small crane, about I imagine a fifteen to twenty foot crane and they dragged the craft onto the tractor-trailer.
P: Did they ever see you?
R: I don’t know if they ever did, or cared.
P: In other words, you were like part of the scenery.
R: Well, you know, they weren’t looking for us, and there was vegetation on the side of the hills R: and we weren’t very tall, so it was easy for us to hide.
P: But you didn’t go and talk to them or anything.
R: Oh, we would sometimes talk to them at the café, but not much, because we didn’t have anything in common. The work they were doing didn’t seem all that important to them. It did not seem to be a great deal to them. We don’t believe anyone was aware of how important this object might have been, certainly not us.
Years later, one of the soldiers married Jose’s cousin.
P: You just said one of them married Jose’s cousin and the obvious question everybody would have would be did this military man who married Jose’s cousin ever talk about this incident?
R: With Jose?
P: No?
R: With Jose’s dad.
P: With Jose’s dad, this military guy did. Do you remember what was said?
R: I was not there. But Jose would know. It is my understanding that throughout the years, he became more unconvinced that it was a Weather balloon.
P: That’s what he said? He did not think it was a weather balloon. But he never went one step further and said what was inside?
R: Don’t believe he knew. He was just doing his job, picking up the debris, looking forward to completing his assignment and going home. The war had ended, and a lot of the soldiers had been restricted near the base near Trinity site for the last 90 days
P: He didn’t know. So his job was just to do the recovery. But he thought it was not a Weather balloon. Okay. So, anyway, you guys were at the fountain and then what happens?
R: We’d go there, buy a coke, and listen to the music. It seemed that the guys were not even aware that we existed. They were predictable. We pretty well had it figured out, and on the last day, Jose came and got me and we went to the site, sitting in the brush where they can’t see us. We watch them drive the truck outside the gate and they got the tarp tied up nice and neat. Jose said, “I think they are going to take it tonight.” I said, “Yea, how about a souvenir?
P: And you said that?
R: Yes, during the war we lost so many relatives that it was not unusual to have something to remember them by when we said our prayers. Because when they died in the war they never came back. They brought a lead coffin and a couple of guards with it and they buried them. Jose say’s “Let’s head down and wait a little while until they leave and then we’ll go.” We waited for a while and then everybody took off. They had these military pickups and they took off. So we know where they’re going, they’d be gone for a while. We worked our way up there and where the crevice was, they had run the grater through it, so nobody would even know that a crevice existed. Then we worked our way outside the fence, towards the back of the truck and stepped it off. If you made a big enough step it was three feet. Maybe we were off a few feet, but that’s the measurements we had. Twenty-five to thirty long and about fourteen-feet tall. And then we looked at the underneath part of the craft, because we had not seen this part of it, it was partly under ground. So now we get to see the whole thing. Boy, this thing is a monster; it’s big. Now we can see the bottom. And in the bottom it’s got like three little indentations, little grooves under there, on each side.
P: Well, maybe they were for the landing pad. Maybe some kind of feet came out of it.
R: Could be. And so Jose pulls part of the tarp off, exposing the gash on the side of the craft, while I hold the tarp open. Jose climbs into the gash.
P: Inside the hole?
R: Inside the hole.
P: He went inside the hole?
R: Yes, and I was partially in, holding the tarp letting the light in. First, there’s nothing hardly in there.
P: But he could see the shape of it? Like if there were any rooms? Was it smooth all the way around. Were there any panels? If there were, try to explain it to me.
R: Jose said there were like ridges every so many feet
P: Did he see any panels, like control panels?
R: No. He didn’t see like a big panel. We were talking maybe about two and one half-foot panel.
P: Was it attached to the wall, this panel?
R: To the bulkhead, the rear wall, maybe?
P: This was a panel which is inside, which is you said was on the bulkhead. But it’s against the wall, this panel. It’s attached to the bulkhead.
R: Yes, to the bulkhead.
P: Okay.
R: What would be the rear wall to us.
P: So how fast could he pull that thing off? I mean, did he pull it off?
R: He tried to jerk it off and he couldn’t so then he went and got a cheater bar from the front of tractor-trailer. Something like a crow bar, it’s called a cheater bar in the trucking industry. It’s used for testing the tightness of the chains holding the load down on the tractor-trailer.
P: You described the pins and what were they like?
R: Yes, a one-way fastener. They go in one way and they can’t come out. They were serrated fasteners that were inside the holes, and that’s what was holding this
bracket-type piece on the panel that was located on the bulkhead (rear wall.)The pins were yellow.
P: The pins were like yellow? That was my next question. What kind of color did you have? What kind of colors are we dealing with?
R: Yellow. The pins were yellow. Silvery colored strands of what I would compare to angel hair. No seats or anything, nothing. It must have been cleaned out, or maybe there weren’t any. Couldn’t see any instruments, like gages, clocks, steering wheel, brake pedals, nothing like that.
P: I’ve heard that it could be burned fiber optics. Was it gray inside?
R: Part of that ship was darker on the bottom part than the top. Lighter gray.
P: But did Jose race out of there because he thought they’d discover him, or were you guys relaxed because you knew where the military were and they were going to take their time so you just took your time?
R: We tried to hurry. We were afraid of being discovered. Relax? You gotta be kidding. I haven’t relaxed since then.
P: This is pretty heavy metal, though, not really, no? Did it feel like an earthly metal? You couldn’t tell. But the aluminum type piece like the Phillip Morris package was different. Where did that come from?
R: When it first crashed and we first went in to the crash site, there were some pieces of material that looked like angel hair. It was used in that era, when people didn’t have electricity to decorate their Christmas trees. The material was similar to angel hair. I also found a piece of shinny metal.
P: That was moving back and forth…
R: Under a stone, is where I first saw it. I pulled it out. It had its own mind. I folded it, and it unfolded, kind of unusual.
P: How much of that stuff did you guys throw in the trench?
R: We threw some of that stuff in there.
P: That’s the stuff that I’m really curious about.
R: That’s the stuff everybody wants to get their hands on.
P: It’s very interesting. You said it had a “mind of its own”.
R: I mean that if I folded it, it would return to the way it was originally.
P: Sure. Well, that’s very interesting. That’s what they say the Roswell pieces were like, what Jesse Marcel, Jr., said that his father brought home. He strewed it all over the kitchen floor. There was a lot of it. Were there I-beams?
R: I would not have known what an “ I” beam looked like.
P: You didn’t see any structural beams? So you got to go in it, too. So both of you went in it. So how long did you stay in there?
R: Not that I remember. I don’t know. Not very long. Here’s what was on the craft, when we went in there. We didn’t have any electricity at our house, so when Christmas came around, we decorated the tree with non-electric decorations like popcorn, icicles, foil, and angel hair. That year we had a few strands of angel hair that came from a crashed object on the Padilla ranch. You know what that is?
P: Yes, I know exactly what that is.
R: That’s what we had. That’s what was all over the inside of that craft.
P: Okay. I got another story once and the witness told me that that stuff was burned fiber optics. It was fiber optics. It was whitish angel hair. Perfect. Because that’s part of the mechanism of the craft. So you wanted a piece of the metal?
R: And so we took that.

PART 3

P: Did you both ever, when you were discussing as kids, did you ever discuss the beings?
R: Yes. Their heads were comparable to a campamocha. That’s what we saw.
P: What do you mean, you saw them and they looked like a bug?
R: Yes, they were ugly to us at first. Their heads looked like a campamocha.
P: Would you say it in English?
R: The closest translation would be like, heck, a bug, praying mantis.
P: Oh, that would have been?
R: Big, bulgy eyes…you know. Everybody calls them grays, I guess, but I haven’t seen a gray, so I wouldn’t know.
P: But these could have been a total other thing.
R: They had big bulgy eyes; we don’t know whether they were exactly four feet tall. It’s just an estimate. Four-foot tall, and they were real thin, needle-thin arms.
I don’t know how many fingers. But I mean, they seemed to glide.
P: Were they wearing outfits?
R: Well, either they were wearing real tight coveralls, or their skin was real tight.
P: What color, still gray, the coveralls?
R: Yes, light gray.
P: And the head was pretty big? I mean proportionally.
R: The head seemed pretty big, and it was similar to a campamocha.
P: No, no, I understand. No, no, no, because I’ve heard this before. It’s okay. It protruded, right? So it was a protruding head and big eyes, and a kind of a slit for a nose. Maybe as kids, you didn’t even notice the nose because the eyes were so big. They were thin, you know, thinly means skinny. It was thinly built.
R: If you see one, I’ll have to get a picture of one, but Campomocha well describes it.
P: And you said they slid instead of walking or running.They “seemed” to slide.
R: It seems like they did. Like they willed themselves from one place to another.
P: But you knew something, they must have connected with you at some point. Well, you said you had images coming in your head.
R: Yes, I’m sure.
P: You know, I wouldn’t see eyes unless eyes were looking at me.
R: Jose and I were looking at the craft through one set of binoculars. We were taking turns. He was looking, but we couldn’t directly look into their eyes, that I can remember, it’s pretty far. I know, but what we felt was this pure sorrow, really felt sorry for them because we could feel their pain. They seemed like us, children.
P: Oh, okay. That was certainly interesting. Reme, I have no words for that, to compare something like that.
R: They seemed like they were hurt.
P: They were hurt and they also knew they were looking at your eyes. Anything else about you and Jose? Did you talk about them at all?
R: Yes. Did we get together and discuss this when we were little, you mean? We talked about them when we were sure no one else was around.
P: Them, the beings?
R: The creatures. Did they talk to us?
P: No, what did Jose say about the beings? I know how you felt about them. What did he say about them? Did he feel like you? Did he feel sorry for them?
R: Not as much as I did, but he did.
P: Were you terrified when you looked at them or did you want to get closer, or did they just disgusted you, or you just felt sorry for them, or?
R: Normally, I would feel sorry for friends, relatives if something happened to them. I didn’t know these creatures. We were curious. They were strangers, we didn’t know who they were, but we knew they were different.
P: Oh, okay. So you felt their emotion.
R: That’s right.
P: Oh, my. You felt their emotion.
R: And so those sounds, we tried to figure out what the sounds were. We attributed it to them. It was coming from them.
P: That’s probably where they were coming from. How long do you think that experiences lasted when you were standing there doing that?
R: All the time they were there.
P: Which was?
R: Probably a half-hour to forty-five minutes.
P: You stayed a half hour to forty-minutes where those beings were? You weren’t scared?
R: We were scared, yeah.
P: And you still stayed?
R: We still stayed there. Jose was curious about the creatures too. He wanted to help them. Yeah, Jose tried to talk me into going into the object to help them, and I was trying to avoid it, yet I was concerned too.
P: Jose was going to go in?
R: We didn’t know what the heck they are, who they were, and what they were doing there. I didn’t feel good about it.
P: You’re not quite sure what that experience produced…Well, I can see that you could be confused about. That’s a long time. I mean, I think regular people would get scared and run away after they saw them, but you stayed.
R: Something kept us there.
P: Something kept you there. Maybe, because you were trying to figure it out?
R: Yes, trying to figure it out. So then eventually we had to leave. We had to go back to ranch.
P: You didn’t notice any writing or hieroglyphics on the outfits? You were too far to see? You saw them “sliding” back and forth and how many were there again, three to four?
R: Yes, three to four.
P: Nobody heard anything? You just heard this high-pitched sound. Well, their craft was crashed.
R: It was still smoky in the area and it was partially buried.
P: So you got the piece and then who kept it?
R: Jose kept it for probably a couple of days and then after that he brought it to me and I hid it under the floorboards at the storage place across the street. Jose told me that some soldiers had contacted his dad, and wanted permission to look through his tool shed and his house, and he didn’t want to get his dad into any trouble.
P: And then what?
R: They took metal, weather balloons, and voter registration material he had stored there. Then the sheepherder, a long time friend of my dad’s, came into town herding the sheep to the stockyards, where they were kept overnight and loaded into railroad cars the next day and shipped out. In fact we went with him over to the stockyards, where they camped out overnight They used to make such good soup, and we joined them for dinner, then come home. On the following day, the sheepherder moved in the storage house, and gave my dad a young lamb. When Jose and I pulled that piece of that craft, our souvenir, we had named it “Tesoro”. We were the only ones that knew its name. Translated, it means “Treasure.”
P: Okay. Treasure.
R: So that was our Tresoro. The sheepherder came over to the house one morning while we’re just finishing breakfast. My dad’s home on vacation, and he is not aware of our tightly held secret. The sheepherder knocks on the door. I answer it and he says, “Can I talk to your dad?” “Sure, come on in.” Dad says,” Come on in, Pedro, lets have a cup of coffee; we’re just finishing up our breakfast.” So, we’re sitting, finishing up and so he says, “Alejandro,” he says, “You know, I’m going to have to leave this place.” “Why?” “Well, he says, you know, last night I was asleep and I got woke up. I saw this light out there by the well. There was this light out there and I”….
P: Who is this man?
R: He’s Pedro, the sheepherder.
P: The sheepherder. Okay.
R: A good friend of my dad’s.
P: Okay, okay. He saw a light by the well.
R: By the well and he says,” I looked out the window and the next thing there’s these three critters in my room, in my house, and the door’s locked.” And so he pointed towards the floor and they’re saying “Tesoro.”
P: Oh, no. You never told me this part of the story. This is incredible. Oh, my Lord. Okay, and?
R: And so, they’re pointing there. And so he says,” Tesoro, there’s treasure down there.”
P: Okay.
R: And so these guys are doing that, Pedro says, “and I got my rifle and I’m going to shoot them because they have no business in my house. And so I got my rifle and they’re gone. But you know what, they went right through the wall. Can you believe that, Alejandro?” My heart is pounding, and I am silently praying, I didn’t want to get in trouble with my dad. He doesn’t know anything about the Padilla ranch experience.
P: Okay.
R: So my dad says all right. He says to my older brother, Dave,”let’s go over and check, bring a shovel and a crowbar.”
P: The eldest brother of?
R: Mine.
P: Yours. Okay.
R: And so he gets the crowbar and undoes the floorboards and he steps down and says, “Where?” And Pedro pointed, “Right there. Right in the center of the room.” I’m, silently praying, ‘Oh God, I hope they don’t find it.’ So he digs in the center he can’t find anything and he digs around with the shovel, and there’s nothing. He says, “There’s nothing here,” so they nail the boards back on, and then my dad says, “Well, it’ll probably never happen again. Don’t worry it. If it does, let me know and we’ll check it out again.” So everybody was happy and that was the end of that. I saw Jose the following day at the Post Office and I says, “Hey, you need to come and get that Tesoro because there is too much happening around.” So he comes over and gets the Tesoro and takes it home, and puts it with some other stuff underneath his house. At that time we had space under the buildings, due to floods. So Jose puts the Tesoro in some boxes underneath his house and that’s where it lay 1963 when he went back after he had moved to California. He moved to California in late 1954. In 1963 he went back to repair his windmill since he had purchased some used windmill parts. The caretaker drank a lot and Jose had a hard time finding him. Jose decided to take all the boxes home to California and put them in the attic in his garage in California.
Most of the contents of the boxes were old dishes, bottles, odd papers, letters, magazines and useless junk, and that’s where it all remained until 2001-2002. When I met his son on the internet, and his son informed me that his dad’s name was Jose and was from San Antonio, I called him and rekindled our youthful experiences and the discovery of an object that was shaped like an avocado, that had crashed on the ranch when we were little kids looking for a cow that was ready to have a calf. I said, “What the heck did we call that piece that we took off that object? Del Oro, Socorro. Ah, Tesoro. Yes, that’s it! Tesoro.” “You know what?” Jose says, “I bet you it’s still there, way back in the attic. It’s been so long that I had forgotten about it. Let me take a look and see if I can find it.”
P: This the same piece that you remember, that very same piece? Okay.
R: Yes. Tresoro. He found it and so he Fed-Ex’d.it.
P: He Fed-Exed it to you because you wanted it. Right?
R: Yes. Because I wanted to get it tested.
Paola: How did you Jose and you, Reme get together to talk about your experiences?
R: Well, I began to begin to research it. Find out.
P: Okay, so 1994, then ten years, more than ten years?
R: We had to find Jose. After he found Jose, then everything started coming out.
P: When did you find Jose?
R: You know, what my problem was, was trying to recollect from way back when…
P: But what year do you think you found Jose?
R: In 2002. It was after his surgery. He had open-heart surgery. So I was doing everything. In fact I took a trip to New Mexico with some guys from California and…
R: Yes, we lived in California. It was in July, I think.One of the first projects after retiring was to do our genealogy, and I was using the internet and by chance met a person by the last name of Padilla and we started talking back and forth, and I asked him who his dad was, and he said Joe and that he was born in San Antonio, and I informed him that we were friends.
P. How big was San Antonio?
R: Well, they had six original families. The population was not that big, between fifty and seventy-five people in the area.
P: So at the same time, do you remember the year this happened?
R: It happened around late 2001 or early 2002.
P: So it’s 2002. After all of these years you were able to connect with the other little boy who was on that hill. You were 7 and he was 9, and you were able to connect and compare notes.
R: Yes.
P: And you said that he said something very significant when you called him.
R: He says, did you mention what we discovered to any members of your family? And if you did, what was their reaction? And I said, they didn’t believe me.
P: Okay.
R: And he says he had the same problem.
P: But you were telling me that for the longest time your wife, Ginny, didn’t believe you until you had a sighting and then everything turned around.
R: That’s right.
P: And then she’s become a very good partner in this search.
R: Very supportive, yes.
P: Very supportive of it. Okay, so for the people that wanted to have this described, very quickly, you’ve made a model of the craft.
R: Yes. That’s a replica of the craft and the hole that was there.
P: This hole looks like it had an explosion and it’s all opened up in different pieces here. It wasn’t like a clean hole.
R: No. Essentially in reenacting what we called the fly-by, that came by a tower and it was either radio or radar tower about fifty feet tall, and that tower had what they called at that time a wind charger. It generated the electricity for the light up on top. And so in talking to other engineers and so forth, this craft may have been traveling by there and may have been affected by lightning hitting the tower. Since the tower would have been grounded the juice goes into the ground. If the craft was not grounded, and it got caught in between it, some part of it might get fried.
P: Okay and then later you got other pieces of metal which you took in the space of like a week that they did the clean-up, but is a piece of metal that you just looked at recently that has a lot of little bubbles on it that looks like it has been subjected to heat.
W: I believe they call that EMT heat. And that’s a very high, intense heat that melts, that has to be really hot to melt that.
P: So what makes us think that this piece, which has ridges and little circles, what makes us think that this is an ET piece or an extraterrestrial? You’ve had it analyzed?
R: That particular piece has a little carbon type of hairs in it and so if you notice that piece, even though it melts, has a few melts around there.It transfers that heat from one side to the other. And so that prevents meltdown.

PART 4

P: It’s a conductor?
R: Like tiles that they use on the space capsule.
P: Okay, and you have had this analyzed, and you have all the analyses of this saved.
R: Yes.
P: But this was found in the area, this is not the piece that Jose jumped in and got, which was the piece off the panel. It’s a substantial sized piece, that piece. And that had, you said, someone using the book The Day After Roswell where Colonel Corso described the cracker-like shapes that look like little squashed insects and that’s on Page 45. It describes the inside mechanism of the analysis of the piece. This is how it appears with electron microscope, right?
R: Yes.
P: The one that was on the panel that Jose took off. And you recognized what Colonel Corso said, “they were like a circuit.” And they looked like, what he said, “animals that were squashed”, and you got that in the analysis that you had done, also with the electron microscope. Now there’s another piece. The one that everybody talks about, that I would love to see too. That was the piece that looked like aluminum foil that resembled the inside of a Philip Morris cigarette box, which was a light piece of aluminum. And can you describe that piece or what you did with that piece?
R: Well, when we first started down the road to that crash site, this piece was under a rock and I saw it glitter and it was moving up and down, and so I pulled it out from under the rock and kind of rolled it up and folded it up and you would fold it and it would go back into the same position as it was. Today they call it “memory metal”, but at that time we didn’t know what it was. So I took that and put it in my pocket and took it home and showed it to Jose and played around with it for a while. I had a can in which I had a few Indian head coins that I was saving. And so I put it in that and then I took that can of Prince Albert and put it in the well. The well is a hole about maybe 6x6 wide and about eight foot deep, and in that well is where the cylinders to the pumps on the windmill are located. The well has a casing, made out of cedar, to keep it from falling in on itself. I put it behind one of those and that was the place where I kept things. And it was there for quite a while until one day my dad had come home on vacation. We were lucky if he came home once a month because he worked in Albuquerque at the Veterans Hospital. When he came home, he was working on the windmill and he said, “I can’t fix this thing. Maybe you and Jose can take it and get it welded.” Well, the idea was that we would take it and get it welded and put it back on. So we took it apart. I talked to Jose and so we went in his pickup to Socorro and took it to a blacksmith and asked if he could weld it. The threads were worn. And so he looked at it and he says, Well, you can’t do that because it’s made out of brass and I have no way of welding brass.” So that didn’t turn out very well. We came back to the well to see what we could do with it. We’d tighten it and then it would slip. So we were ready to put it back together and in an act of desperation I said, “Jose, reach back there behind that piece of wood and there should be a can of Prince Albert there.” He reached back there and found the can. There was that little piece of aluminum type foil that we had found at the crash site. Maybe this would work. We took that aluminum-type foil and we wrapped it around the threads and then we tied the ends tight and it didn’t slip so then I took one of the Stilson wrenches, Jose got the other one, and we tightened it up. We went and turned the windmill on and it started pumping some water. It worked.
P: It worked?
R: It created a vacuum, and pumped water.
P: Very, very ingenuous thing to do with a piece of extraterrestrial material.
R: We didn’t know. No way of knowing.
P: I know.
R: And so as time went on, Jose left there and then I left there, and went to Washington and went to school and then I eventually got married, and we were raising a family. Sometimes both my mom and dad would visit us. This time my dad came alone to visit and he stayed at our house overnight. Jeannie fixed lamb chops for him. That was his favorite meal. While we were sitting at the table having dinner, my dad turns over to me and says, “Reme, I don’t know if you remember or not, but you know that cylinder that you fixed on that windmill? It’s still working. Don’t know what you did to it.” I responded that I was glad it worked out. I couldn’t bring my self to tell him the real story, because he was not supposed to know.
P: Where that came from…
R: That this was some form of advanced alien technology at work. He would never have believed it. And he wouldn’t believe that we have phones today, cell phones that you can carry in your pocket. And so that would have been a lot for him, so I just thanked him, great, I was glad to do it.
P: Well, your story is very important. It certainly is very important to archiving and historically recording the UFO phenomenon in general. And everybody knows and everybody uses as a marker the Roswell case, which was 1947. But I had told you that I had discovered an MJ-12 document with Robert Oppenheimer and Albert Einstein, where they talked, before Roswell of what an extraterrestrial biological entity was, had come to the conclusion that there were crashes before Roswell and this was one of them because it was at least two years before Roswell. So if we research this case with you and Jose, what would you like to have happen? How do you envision this, this disclosure that you have to offer everybody? The world? America? The young people of the future? How do you hope to disclose this? Because it’s a real story and you guys are still here and it happened a long time ago. So how would you like to bring this forward?
R: Well, Jose and I and both families are in agreement that the public needs to know about it and also we’re in possession of the piece. It really doesn’t belong to us. Never did. It belongs to somebody.
P: They didn’t come back and get it. They haven’t claimed it so maybe they left it as a gift. And that’s a possibility because they could have claimed it. From different stories you told me they could have come back and claimed it. So what would you like to do?
R: I think that somehow or other it should be someplace on public display so people could have access to it.
P: And your story should come out how? How can we best present your story to the general public? What did you have in mind?
R: Well, I would imagine one of the areas would be at one of the yearly conferences that they have. That would be a good place, I think.
P: And also your book. You have a manuscript here of your case and your memories of what happened, you know. The book, which would be- we were thinking of a title, Before Roswell, and then you’re thinking of maybe doing something about seeing if there are other pieces.
R: We’d like to have a dig. You know, go over and dig. Either call it a trench or whatever, where some of the soldiers threw some of the pieces and we threw some pieces in there. And that’s been covered over, over time, and we’d like to dig that up and see if there’s any pieces remaining. We think there are.
P: Okay now. When you were throwing the pieces, what was going through you mind? Were you throwing them there so you could come back and get them?
R: We were throwing them so we could come back and get them later on.
P: And the soldiers, why were they throwing them in there? Because they didn’t want to carry them?
R: I believe so. You have to, I guess, give those soldiers credit. We discovered this craft exactly 30 days after the bomb test at Trinity. They were restricted to base camp at stallion site for 90 days. They couldn’t go out of there nowhere and talk to anybody or have a drink of pop or anything else. They were restricted to that area until the bomb test was done. And then after the bomb test was done, they released them so they could have a little liberty and so forth. And then this crash took place and they were working again, doing the recovery. These were young men that took every opportunity to socialize with the people there, it was probably the first time they had been able to do that in 90 days.
P: So they really didn’t. In other words, it was not a methodical, paranoid picking up of pieces. In other words, let’s get this stuff cleaned up and go have some ice cream or some beer, and who cares whether any part gets left behind.
R: I don’t believe there was a formal alien craft recovery-training course. We were at war.
P: And you even said they weren’t even wearing biological suits because they were not available.
R: They weren’t aware that this was an alien ship, and we weren’t either.
Yes, it was before they were very careful about any of this. And I asked Jose about this. He said that we were really sneaky. He said, “We were hiding.”
P: So they didn’t even see that you were there. But they did visit actually. It wasn’t your dad, it was Jose’s dad, to make sure that they could get a handle on what it was that they thought he saw and he was involved in. And he handed over some pieces to them?
R: Yes, but these were different military people.
P: Because they wanted any pieces he had. Being 1945, it becomes the first real big, huge UFO case. And it will be very, very important for the whole UFO scene. I expect a lot of researchers will be extremely interested in it. So, tell us about how your family and your children are supportive. Are they supportive of this?
R: Very supportive. In fact, all of them are supportive of us doing this.

PART 5

P: And in the last couple of years you’ve been really intent on how to do this. I mean, it’s been in your brain about how to get this, how to do it, how to present it, and so forth. But it’s something you’ve lived with 60 years.
R: That’s a long time. Well, not really lived with it for 60 years because at a certain point in time I could see that it really wasn’t possible to do the things that we wanted to do, you know, while I was here in Washington going on with my life and such, raising a family and so forth. Jose was doing the same thing in California. So there was a point in time that we were not concentrating on this. Perhaps we weren’t ready for it.
P: The timing wasn’t right. Can you think of other than the book, The Day After Roswell by Colonel Philip Corso where you recognize the piece, the description of the integrated circuit piece, were there any other times that you said, “now it’s time to talk about it,” or so forth? I know Ryan Wood’s Majic Eyes Only book. I read your crash retrieval story in it and you were on the Jeff Rense show. We could talk about that.
R: Okay.
P: How did you get on the Jeff Rense show?
R: When I came back from California and retired in Washington, and then when I talked to Jose and Jose and I were communicating back and forth on genealogy, etc. We started getting together and gathering data on what we had discovered there in Walnut Creek. And Jose was sending me information that his son had found and I was going through it. There was a newspaper article that Ben Moffitt, a friend of ours whom we had gone to school with had written in one of the Socorro news papers that he had written a couple of years before. This included a visit to the San Antonio Elementary School where he talked to the teachers and so they were briefing him on the present teaching methods. Ben was still thinking back about, Dick, Jane and Puff when we used the Weekly Reader, to keep up on current events.
P: Sounds like a historical picture he was trying to deal with San Antonio.
R: They were trying to update him in the use of computers as teaching tools. So in the process of doing that, he named some of his students that were in his class in the article, and omitted Jose and I. Jose and I discussed this.We thought he might be surprised that we were still around so I gave a call.
P: You noticed the lack of your names in the article he had written about his classmates and you kind of felt like he didn’t remember you.
R: So I called him up and as soon as I said, this is Reme, he said, “oh, oh, you know, I couldn’t remember your name. That’s why I didn’t.” And he apologized for that. We got to talking and he was retired and was working for the paper. And so as we exchanged information because there were some projects that he was working on. He would often call me to get my opinion. In any event, he kept on pressuring me as to what else I was doing. “Well, you’re retired. You must be doing something.” I said, “Well, I’m working on genealogy.” “ What else are you doing?” “ Oh, I’m trying to research this object that we discovered on the Padilla ranch when we were kids.” His response was that he wasn’t into UFOs. A few weeks later Ben called me and informed that he wanted to do the story, and that’s how this all began.
P: Okay, so in 2002. So when did Moffett write the story?
R: In 2003, I believe.
P: Because you know, I read it in Italy, a story. I was blown away because it hit me. I couldn’t understand how people hadn’t researched it.
R: Well, what happened, you know, is that like I said, I couldn’t remember the place. I had a green pickup that I knew we had traveled in, and I didn’t have the location exactly where, so I went to New Mexico.
P: But he acknowledged to you that he knew, even though he didn’t talk about it.

PART 6

P: Hello Jose. I heard that you’d love to do a dig with Reme? You want to do it soon because of the water that erodes the ground. There might be pieces there. Maybe people might be walking around over there.
J: Born and raised there, and outsiders too. .
P: Oh, they were born and raised there?
J: Some were, some weren’t..
P: Oh, no. I know you do. I know you know what happened, but do you think they’re not tourists, right? They’re just curiosity seekers?
J: Curiosity seekers and hunters, and there’s a lot of rifle shooters doing target practice there.
P: Well, that’s not going to be fun.
J: That’s just target practice; they set up targets, like bottles, and cans. I can understand city folks would have a hard time understanding this.
P: I know, but they’re not target practicing on this stuff, are they?
J: No, no.
P: No, I know that.
J: Yes.
P: Have any of those guys approached you?
J: No, they were probably just target practicing, but it’s a big area.
P: You’re the one that actually took that crowbar or whatever you took and pulled that piece off, right?
J: Right. I’m the one that used the cheater bar to jerk the piece of the panel.
P: And you saw the panel it was on.
J: Yes.
P: Yes, it’s here somewhere.
J: You can see that, that it’s clean, the pieces that are there now….
P: This would be 62 years later. Yes, you know it’s a lot of years.
J: The piece was taken care of.
P: Great. Was there any of that funny metal that Reme had thrown into the crevice.
J: No, Reme kept that.
P: Oh, okay.
J: It was on his ‘tesoro”. His treasure.
P: So is there any more of that anywhere?
J: I don’t think so.
P. Well, can I just ask you really quickly what do you remember the creatures looked like?
J: Well, we were little kids then. I was only about three feet tall. They were a little shorter than me-kind of light gray.
P: Do you remember if they looked directly at you?
J: I don’t know whether they were looking directly, I know they were running back and forth, squealing.
P: Well, that’s actually a good word because Reme was saying they seemed to be squealing in pain.
J: I think they were hurt.
P: Okay.
J: Because I wanted to go in there to help and
P: You were the 9-year-old, right?
J: Right.
P: But you had three days’ worth of going back and forth there.
J: We had two days. Okay.
P: Oh, two days.
J: We had a whole week when they cleaned it up.
P: You had a whole week?
J: We used to take our horses on that ridge.
P: Did they see you? They didn’t see you, did they?
J: We were pretty sneaky. I know my territory.
P: You were pretty sneaky. So you saw the soldiers throwing stuff in that ditch, too?
J: Yes, whatever they didn’t want to pick up, I guess, those pieces were too many.
P: Well, if you feel very good about going ahead with all of this, you know, it’s your story and Reme’s, and my job is just to do an interview. I’ll just do the interview part and help break the story. Okay? All right. I’ll just do my best to record it word-for- word what you say, what Reme says and I’ll have it transcribed. And thank you very much for being willing to do that.
J: I’m glad I can help.
P: I know. I very happily will do this and thank you for trusting me, and you can trust me because my work is all to just record and archive it for the future, so that’s what I want to do.
J: There’ll be no problem.
P: There’ll be no problem. Oh, that’s easy.
J: It’s not the target shooters, the ground needs to be warm. I’m sure some pieces are still there after all this time.
P: well, we will look into this part in the future. Right now, thank you for the testimony and your verifying the 1945 San Antonio Crash.

Transcript and photos posted with permission from Paola Harris. Please feel free to copy and repost elsewhere.

More photos to follow.

Permission by Paola Harris to repost in France, Belgium and Switzerland.

INTERVIEW AVEC REME. Partie 1

Premier côté de la cassette.

Paola: P
REME: R

P:
Après avoir vu le crash, vous avez amené des gens sur place.Qui avez-vous amené?
R:
Bon,ce n'est pas moi.
P:
Qui les a amenés?
R:
Après le crash, nous sommes rentrés à la maison, au ranch.
P:
Pouvez-vous me dire la date? La date approximative? Nous savons que c'est en 1945.
R:
Août 1945.
P:
C'est au mois d'Août,
R:
C'était aux environs du 15.
P:
Aux alentours du 15, du 15 août? Vous savez ce jour-là, c'était la fête de la Vierge, et c'est la plus grande fête en Italie OK? C'était une date importante! Donc autour du 15. C'est autour du 15, que votre père vous a envoyé là? Quel âge aviez-vous?
R:
J'avais 7 ans et José en avait 9. Le père de José, Faustino nous avait demandé, quelques jours avant,
de chercher une vache, qui allait avoir un veau.
P:
Et vous étiez montés sur deux chevaux séparés?
R:
Oui, nous étions sur deux chevaux séparés.
P:
Donc , c'est ce jour-là où vous êtes allés voir?
R.
Oui. Voici ce qu'il nous a dit. Vous savez, Faustino nous a dit « si vous en avez l'occasion,je désire que vous alliez et rameniez cette vache, parce qu'elle est prête à véler et nous voulons être sûrs de l'attraper avant que quelqu'un s'en empare et mette sa marque sur le veau. Et dès que nous en avons eu l'occasion, nous y sommes allés. Ce que nous faisions périodiquement, c'est que nous enfourchions nos chevaux, et que nous vérifions toutes les barrières, les barrières de promenade, comme on les appellait ,vérifier les barrières , être certains qu'aucune n'était cassée. Et si elle l'était, nous la réparions. Nous prenions quelques outils et si à un endroit , elle était démolie nous la cassions, puis lorsque nous revenions, nous la remplacions. Donc, on vérifiait les barrières et quand on avait terminé, on grimpait tout en haut de la colline et on faisait l'inventaire du bétail. José regardait avec ses jumelles et comptait le nombe de bêtes. Moi ,j'écrivais les nombres. On comptait les vaches. Vous savez 25 têtes de bétail, ce n'était pas beaucoup. Faustino avait ramené quelques bêtes à tête blanche d'Espagne et commençait à créer un cheptel à tête blanche. Le terrain semblait bien leur convenir.
P:
Vous comptiez les vaches? OK. Non, je vous crois.
R:
C'est ce que nous faisions. Et naturellement l'hiver, quand il neigeait, nous nous arrêtions quelquefois pour casser la glace, et faisions un trou dans l'eau, pour que les animaux puissent boire et nous transportions des balles de foin ou de paille pour épandre sur le sol , ainsi les animaux pouvaient manger.
P:
C'est durant le jour que vous y êtes allés?..
M:
Oui , ce fut durant le jour. José est venu avec son cheval et nous avons sellé le mien et nous sommes partis. Ma mère était au courant que nous allions effectuer un travail sur le ranch Padilla.
P:
Il avait 9 ans et vous 7?
M:
Oui. Nous sommes allés surveiller cette vache. Et tandis que nous étions là, un orage a éclaté, ce qui n'était pas anormal à la fin de l'été, avec tonnerre et éclairs. Nous nous sommes réfugiés sous un rebord de la falaise avant de contiuer. Nous étions descendus de cheval , parce que le terrain était glissant et rocheux. Les chevaux n'aiment pas les rochers, ils abiment leurs sabots. Nous avons attaché leurs laisses ensemble et les avons accrochées et nous avons laissé les bêtes pour continuer à pied. Nous avons marché jusqu'à un tas d'épineux, d'herbes grasses, comme on disait à l'époque, des pommes de pins ,de la sauge et des cactus.Et en marchant vers ce tas d'épineux, nous entendions un gémissement, et nous avons découvert que c'était la vache que nous devions retrouver et qu'elle avait mis son veau au monde .
Il était le début d'une nouvelle lignée à tête blanche. Une vache rouge avec une face blanche et des pieds blancs. Faustino avait croisé une vache et un taureau d'Espagne. Ils avaient donné naissance à Blancheface qui devint le premier des veaux à viande, qu'on avait décidé de créer pour leur chair aux Etats-Unis, à l'époque. Donc , nous avons trouvé le veau et l'avons ramené à un endroit où il y avait un rebord.. José avait préparé un casse-crôute, deux tortillas et je pense, deux pommes.Nous nous sommes assis pour manger et l'orage et la pluie éclatèrent .Nous étions là sous le rebord de la falaise, pour ne pas être trop mouillés. Nous fûmes un peu mouillés, puis ça s'arrêta. Nous allions partir, mais nous avons vérifié si la vache mangeait convenablement et si le veau se portait bien .Pendant que nous le faisions , nous entendîmes un son énorme.
P:
Le même son que lorsqu'une bombe éclate?
R:
Similaire au bruit que fait une bombe en éclatant. C'est encore présent à mon esprit. Le jour où une bombe avait éclaté, José et sa mère s'étaient levés tôt , le matin. La bombe éclata après que son père fut parti au travail. La mère de José avait vu le flash à travers la fente cassée de la porte et en conséquence ,elle perdit la vision d' un oeil. D'après José, ils avaient senti la vague de chaleur et le tremblement du sol.
P:
Ce son vous était familier?
R:
Très familier. La famille de José était plus près de la bombe que moi. Mon lit cogna contre le mur et je suis tombé du lit. Ma mère est sortie et essaya de m'expliquer que c'était probablement la tempête qui avait causé cela.
P:
Revenons à l'histoire actuelle. Vous avez entendu ce bruit...
R:
Nous avons entendu ce bruit et senti le sol trembler et nos souvenirs revinrent .Cela ressemblait à l'explosion d'une bombe atomique. Testaient-ils encore, ou quoi? Donc, nous avons regardé autour de nous et nous vîmes de la fumée, à deux canyons de là. Aussi José me dit: « Allons voir ce qui se passe. »Alors , nous sommes partis en suivant la falaise et nous avons aperçu ce qui paraissait un grand cratère sur le sol . Il y avait une trace qui y conduisait, comme si on avait voulu niveler le sol pour faire une route. Nous n'avions aucune idée de ce qui pouvait laisser une trace de 30 m. de large et de 30 cm. de profondeur . Ce qui était sûr, c'était qu'il s'agissait de quelque chose de grand et qu'il avait laissé une trace profonde de 30 m. de large. C'était aplani sous nos pieds et chaud. Les semelles de nos chaussures chauffaient.
P:
Savez-vous quelle heure , il était?
R:
Nous n'avions pas de montre. Probablement 4 ou 5 heures de l'après-midi, ou même plus tard.
P:
Je le demandais pour savoir si vous pouviez bien voir autour de vous.
R:
Oui, on pouvait bien voir. Mais pendant que nous regardions cette route bien aplanie, il en sortait une sorte de brume. Aussi, nous battîmes en retraite , pour pouvoir mieux respirer et boire un peu, et surtout rassembler nos esprits et essayer de comprendre ce qui se passait. Je demandai à José, si ce pouvait être un avion qui avait eu un accident.
Je n'avais vu des avions ,qu'en l'air. Nous vivions dans une petite ville. Je n'avais jamais beaucoup vu d'avions. José répondit qu'il ne savait pas , mais qu'il y avait peut-être des blessés et que nous devions aller les aider. Je dis OK et nous continuâmes de nous avancer plus près. Nous pouvions voir qu'il y avait quelque chose sur le bord de ce grand cratère.
P:
La trace qu'avait laissé la rampe?
R:
La trace qu'avait laissé le vaisseau.
Elle n'était pas droite . Elle s'avançait et à un momernt il y avait un tournant , comme un L. On voyait qu'il y avait quelque chose mais il y avait trop de poussière pour bien voir et c'était humide après la pluie et un brouillard sortait de cette sorte de broussaille en feu et venait vers nous, nous aveuglant et on ne savait pas du tout ce que c'était. Nous revenions, nous nous arrétions, puis repartions et José regardait à travers ses jumelleset disait. Il y a quelque chose, nous devrions y aller et on repartait plus près, et finalement ce fut de plus en plus visible.
Le temps semblait passer très vite. Je regardais à travers les jumelles et je vis un trou sur le côté de l'objet. L'objet qui se trouvait là, avait la forme d'un avocat.
P:
L'objet avait donc une forme arrondie comme un avocat, et vous pouviez voir dans le trou? A quelle distance étiez-vous environ?
R:
Oh j'estime que nous devions être à 30 m.
P:
A 30m. environ!
P:
Et vous aperceviez l'intérieur du trou à 30 m de là?
R:
Non, pas l'intérieur du trou. José a dit: « Regarde cela » Et je regardais à travers les jumelles et je vis les petites créatures allant et venant.
P:
Elles allaient vite?
R:
Elles paraissaient glisser
P:
Glisser?
R:
Pas glisser, mais elles se déplacaient légèrement d'un endroit à un autre, comme lorsqu'on glisse.


Et pendant que je regardais , des choses arrivaient dans mon esprit.
P:
Oh vraiment?
R:
Je les voyais et je sentais que c'était une catastrophe, je me sentais vraiment malheureux pour eux.
P:
Hum;hum.
R:
Et j'étais vraiment malheureux, car ils étaient comme des enfants aussi.
P
Et vous vous sentiez concernés pour eux. Et vous pensiez, que ce sentiment était lié cet accident?
R:
Oui, je pense. J'entendais ce son haut-perché venant d'eux. Nous ne savions pas quoi penser. Les seuls sons haut-perchés que nous connaissions, venaient de Jack Rabbits quand il souffre,ou de cris qui proviennent de bébés nouveaux-nés.
P.
Je trouve cela très intéressant. Donc vous entendiez le même son....
R:
Et aussi que ce son venait directement sur nous. Puis nous eûmes des images dans notre tête.
P:
Vous avez eu des images dans votre tête?
R:
Oui, mais je ne sais pas d'où elles venaient.
P:
En d'autres termes, vous pensez que vous receviez un transfert télépathique de ces êtres...
R:
Oui, c'est ça.
P:
Mais vous ne vous rappelez pas ce que c'était. Pourtant vous vous rappelez avoir reçu des images?
R:
Je me rappelle ce qu'étaient ces images mais je ne savais pas ce qu'elles signifiaient. Encore maintenant...
P:
Donc manifestement, ils savaient que vous étiez là.
R:
Oui. Ils devaient savoir que nous étions là.
P:
Pouviez-vous voir s'ils vous regardaient? Je veux dire ...
R:
Je ne sais pas.
P:
Je veux dire, il y avait un trou. Ils auraient pu voir ces deux petits garçons...
R:
Oui, je suis sûr qu'ils le pouvaient, ils pouvaient nous voir.
P:
C'était à 60 m.
R:
Oui. Environ à 60 m. de nous. Cependant , il y avait du brouillard et de la poussière, aussi il ne faisait pas très clair.
P:
Si les êtres regardaient au dehors, ils vous ont vu, mais vous, vous ne pouviez pas les voir. Pourtant ils vous ont transmis des images. Pourquoi ne vous êtes-vous pas sauvés?
R:
Nous les regardions mais il commençait à faire noir et nous avions un long chemin à faire pour retrouver les chevaux et rentrer au ranch. José voulait y aller et moi , non.
P:
Il désirait entrer à l'intérieur du vaisseau?José voulait entrer?
R:
Je lui disais: « José qu'est-ce c'est? » Il répondait :-Je ne sais pas ». « -OK, si tu ne sais pas, pourquoi tu veux y aller.Moi, je veux rentrer à la maison. Je ne veux pas aller là-dedans. Tu n'as qu'à y aller tout seul. Moi, je rentre à la maison. Je te retrouverai au ranch ». Il dit: « -Laisse moi seulement jeter un coup d'oeil. Tu sais , tu as peut-être raison. Je ne sais pas qui, ils sont. » Ils ressemblaient à des enfants, d'étranges enfants.
P:
Donc vous en avez parlé entre vous
R:
Oh oui. Puis il dit: « -OK, je vais regarder un petit peu et nous rentrerons à la maison. Ta mère se fait certainement du souci, il est tard et mon père se fait du souci aussi ».
P:
Puis-je vous demander si vous avez reparlé de tout cela, ces dernières années.
R:
José a quitté San Antonio en 1954 et moi en 1955. Durant les années où nous y étions encore, oui nous en avons reparlé .De 1955 à 2002, nous n'avons eu aucun contact . En 2002, nous avons comparé nos notes.
P:
Vous avez comparé vos notes? Vous a -t-il rappelé des choses?
R:
Beaucoup mieux que moi.
P:
Mieux que vous? Oh c'est bon!
R:
Il a une mémoire photographique.
P:
OK, c'est parfait.
R:
Il a commencé l'école à 4 ans
P:
OK, c'est merveilleux. Maisje suis prête à recueillir son témoignage. Je voulais vous demander, quel était le diamètre de cet objet? Aviez-vous un moyen de le comparer à quelque chose?
R:
Nous l'avions. Nous l'avons mesuré. Rappelez-vous, nous y sommes allés pour le Tesoro, et nous avons essayé de le tirer avec le tracteur.
P:
Oui.
R:
Nous l'avons mesuré alors.
P:
Oui et alors?
R:
Entre 7,50m et 9 m....4,20m. De haut. A cause des chevrons d'une maison. Ils sont à 4,20 m. de haut.
P:
Donc, vous avez eu ces informations? OK. A ce moment ,vous en êtes vous rapproché? Je veux dire: est-ce que vous avez essayé d'entrer ou faire quelque chose? Ou êtes-vous rentrés chez vous?
R:
Finalement , nous avons décidé de rentrer à la maison ,parce qu'il était tard.
P:
OK.
R;
Nous sommes donc revenus , avons monté sur les chevaux et nous sommes rentrés à la maison . Il faisait sombre et très noir ce soir-là, quand nous sommes rentrés au ranch. Le père de José nous attendait et il était très inquiet.Nous lui avons parlé de la vache et de l'histoire du crash.
P:
Oui.
R:
Je lui dis ce que j'avais vu et son père me dit « bon, la première chose à faire est de rentrer chez toi. On verra demain, cela concerne probablement le gouvernement. Nous devons rester en dehors de tout ça ».Et il me reconduisit chez moi. Je laissai mon cheval chez eux et ils en prirent soin. Faustino me reconduisit et il parla longtemps avec ma mère, à propos de l'objet que nous avions découvert sur le ranch Padilla. Faustino déclara que que cela pouvait mettre leur travail en danger, pusique mon père travaillait pour le gouvernement;
P:
Oh, OK.
R:
Mon père travaillait à l'hôpital des Vétérans à Albuquerque et le père de José travaillait pour le Refuge Fedéral et le développement :El Bosquet Del Apache(Le bois des Apaches) près de San Antonio.
P:
Où travaillaient-ils avant?
R:
WOA(Work Project Administration) à C. Camps (( Civilan Conservation Corps) Ils étaient aussi employés par Conrad Hilton qui était à la tête de plusieurs affaires à San Antonio et M. Alliare qui dirigeait une affaire commerciale.
P:
C'était avant?
R:
Oui, avant cela.
P:
Dans leur jeunesse, donc.
R:
C'est donc, tout ce qui s'est passé cette nuit-là. Le jour suivant , José vint me chercher chez moi, jJ'allai avec lui, pour rencontrer Eddie Apodaca ,qui était policier d'état et ami de la famille. Faustino lui avait demandé de nous accompagner sur le lieu du crash. Il prit la voiture de police et nous suivions dans le camion . Nous avons roulé avec les véhicules le plus près possible, puis nous avons marché jusqu'au lieu du crash.
Quand nous fûmes tout près, en regardant du haut de la colline, on ne voyait pas l'objet. Que veut dire « tout près »? Nous n'étions pas sur terrain plat .Il y avait dec collines, des canyons et des gorges. En regardant du sommet de la colline vers le lieu où devait se trouver l'objet,on ne voyait rien . Nous n'avions pas d'explication.
On ne voyait vraiment rien. Il semblait parti. José dit: « Bon, je ne sais pas ce qui se passe. » Eddy et Faustino demandèrent: « Où disiez-vous que vous l'aviez vu? »Ma réponse fut « Il était là, mais nous ne le voyons pas. »Faustino dit « Avançons encore un peu pour voir ». Nous commençâmes à descendre et nous l'aperçûmes. L'objet était recouvert d'un tas de débris et je demandai à Faustino pourquoi, on ne les avaient pas vu du haut de la colline . Il répondit qu'il ne le savait pas.
P:
Vous dites que c'était presqu' invisible dans le paysage?
R:
Plutôt, qu'on ne pouvait pas le voir. Alors nous nous sommes rapprochés to.Et là, les hommes nous laissèrent et dirent : « OK, ne bougez pas Nous allons entrer dedans. »
P:
Donc, Reme, ils sont entrés dans le vaisseau et qu'est-ce qu'ils ont trouvé?
R:
Ce qu'ils ont trouvé ?Ils ne l'ont pas dit , mais ce que je sais , c'est qu'ils changèrent complètement d'attitude. Quand nous avions descendu la colline vers l'objet accidenté, ils doutaient beaucoup.
P:
Oui, je comprends, je comprends.
R:
Donc , nous étions là assis, et nous les attendions. Ils restèrent 5 ou 10 minutes, puis sortirent. Ils avaient changé d'attitude, complètement d'attitude. Ils étaient presque des personnes différentes. Ils avaient vu quelque chose qu'ils n'avaient jamais vu avant. Ils sortirent et dirent : »OK. Voici Je veux que vous nous écoutiez. C'est très difficile. Vous allez jurer de ne parler de ceci à personne, ni à votre frère, ni à votre cousin, ni à votre mère, ni à votre père, ni à personne. Nous devons faire très attention, pour la raison, que nous voulons pas que vous soyez inquiétés. Nous désirons que rien ne vous arrive. » Nous avons dit oui et ils nous ont fait confiance et nous prenions cela vraiment au sérieux.
P:
Mais ils ne vous ont jamais dit ce qu'ils avaient vu à l'intérieur?
R:
Non.
P:
Ils ne l'ont jamais décrit?
R:
Ils n'ont jamais dit ce qu'ils avaient vu..
P:
Ils ne l'ont pas fait. Mais évidemment, ils n'ont pas vu de créatures parce qu'elles n'étaient plus là.
R:
Ils ne voulaient pas en parler. Parce que nous leur avions parlé de ces créatures, et demandé si elles y étaient encore et pourquoi nous ne les voyions plus à travers le grand trou. Il n'y avait plus de créatures. Ils répondirent: « Bon, vous savez,elles sont peut-être parties! Peut-être que quelqu'un les a pris. Peut-être...
P:
Y a t-il des indices qui montrent que l'armée y était allée?
R:
Des indices? Nous avons vu quelque chose comme des balayages ou des marques de rateau, mais ce pouvait être un animal, un insecte ou un serpent qui pouvait laisser ces marques.
P: Parce que logiquement si les militaires avaient pris ces créatures, on aurait vu qu'ils étaient venus, en d'autres termes, il sauraient au moins attendu 24 heures pour prendre le vaisseau.
R:
Peut-être étaient-ils venus dans les 24 heures, mais nous ne savions rien de plus, et plus tard, ils ont emmené le vaisseau?
P:
Le vaisseau?
R:
Le vaisseau fut enlevé bien après.
P:
Combien de jours après?
R:
Oh probablement plusieurs jours. D'abord , ils apportèrent une sorte d'équipement pour aménager une route, construire une voie d'accès, amener un camion avec une remorque basse, construire un cadre sur la remorque, amenèrent une grue et mirent le vaisseau sur le remorque.
P:
Il a fallu au moins deux ou trois jours. N'êtes-vous revenu que cette seule fois, à l'endroit? Non, je crois que vous êtes revenu encore une fois le lendemain , même si vous ne deviez pas le faire.
R:
Nous sommes revenus plusieurs fois. José venait avec moi ou sans moi. Vous savez , nous étions des enfants. Nous travaillions dans ce coin. En tant qu'enfants, nos pères nous donnaient un peu d'argent pour faire ce travail. Si ce n'était pas nous, qui l'aurait fait?
P:
En parliez-vous tous les deux? Est-ce pour cela que vous y reveniez?
R:
Oui. Nous y sommes rertournés le second jour. Nous étions curieux.
P:
OK. Donc vous y êtes allés.
R:
Nous y sommes retournés et nous voulions voir ce que nous pouvions trouver. C'était au cours de notre travail ,avant que Faustino et Apodaca retournèrent avec nous.
C'était un après-midi après avoir fait notre travail.
P:
Avant que Faustino et Apodaca retournèrent avec vous?
R:
Exact.
P:
Vous êtes revenus de votre propre initiative le second jour..
R:
Non pas de notre propre initiative, nous travaillions à cet endroit. Nous examinions les barrières à cet endroit.Nous avions quelques barrières à fixer et des poteaux à remplacer. Il y avait du bétail avec des veaux de ce côté là aussi.
P:
Qu'est-il arrivé?
R:
Finalement, nous y sommes allés en fin d'après-midi. Nous étions sur nos chevaux et nous nous sommes approchés d'une direction différente, du côté opposé. Nous vîmes quelques militaires qui ramassaient des choses.
P:
OK. C'est justement ce que je vous demandai avant.. Comment pouviez-vous savoir que les militaires étaient là avant. Vous disiez que les créatures n'étaient plus là...
R:
Les militaires n'étaient pas là tout le temps.
P:
Mais les créatures étaient parties et je pense que les militaires les avaient prises.
R:
Nous n'avons pas vu les militaires les prendre. S'ils l'ont fait ,c'est avant que nous arrivions. Mais nous n'avons pas vérifié le vaisseau, tout ce que nous avons fait c'est descendre et de prendre quelques débris tout près, de les cacher dans une crevasse et d'essayer de les couvrir de terre et de cailloux. Quand les deux jeeps s'en allèrent, il faisait noir et nous rentrâmes à la maison.
P:
Et c'est alors que vous avez décidé de vous en occuper plus tard OK?
R:
Oui, cela faisait partie de nos engagements.
P:
A quoi ressemblait ce matériel, ce matériel que vous aviez caché dans le fossé? Etait-il semblable à des matériaux connus? Du plomb ou de l'aluminium, par exemple?
Aviez-vous pris un morceau de la taille d' une pierre?
R:
C'était un morceau que je pouvais tenir dans la main.
P:
Ca ressemblait à quoi?
R:
C'était dur. C'est le premier jour ,j'avais pris un morceau d'une matière ressemblant à une feuille d'aluminium et je l'ai montré à José. Je me souviens des feuilles d'alu qui venaient des cigarettes de Philip Morris, que ma mère fumait. Je l'avais pris et mis dans ma poche.
P:
Qu'est -ce qui est arrivé après?
R:
Je l'ai utilisé pour réparer le cylindre du moulin à vent.
P:
Donc le second jour , vous avez attendu que les militaires soient partis , et vous avez ramassé quelques morceaux que vous aviez laissés dans la cachette, mais vous n'avez pas vu aucune créature..
R:
Nous étions trop loin du cratère et il commençait à faire noir. Les militaires étaient là , nous les avons vus mais je ne crois pas qu'eux, nous aient vus.
P:
L'objet était toujours là et vous êtes revenus à nouveau avec le père de José et Apodaca.
R:
Exact.
P:
Et vous y êtes retournés et qu'y avait-il? Le vaisseau ...?
R:
Oui , le vaisseau était encore là.
P:
Vous y étiez une fois encore le quatrième jour?
R:
Non, pas le quatrième jour , José vint chez moi pour aller ramasser des piments, du poivre vert, des tomates parce que nous avions un potager et lui non, et que nous remplissions un panier de légumes pour lui . Quand nous sommes arrivés chez lui, nous avons passé par la porte à l'arrière de la maison, parce que nous avons vu une voiture militaire en face et un soldat à la porte de devant qui parlait avec son père. Aussi nous passâmes par la cuisine pour les rejoindre. Faustino dit « venez ici , les garçons! » Nous nous rapprochâmes et il présenta le soldat Sergent R. Avila, et le fit entrer. Le Sergent Avila dit: « Je fais partie de l'US armée et je vous demande la permission d'aller chez vous pour couper la barrière et mettre une porte, parce que nous avons un de nos ballons météo expérimental qui est tombé par inadvertance dans votre propriété. »
P:
Il a dit »un ballon météo expérimental »?
Ces mots-la?
R:
« Un ballon météo expérimental et nous avons besoin de le récupérer et nous vous demandons la permission de le faire. Son père demanda « Pourquoi ne passez-vous pas par la porte pour le bétail, au lieu de couper la barrière? » Il expliqua: « Parce que le matériel que nous allons apporter est plus large que la porte où passe le bétail. On ne pourra pas passer par là. De plus ,vous aurez une nouvelle porte qui ferme et nous garderons une clé. Nous allons couper la barrière et mettre une porte. » Il ajouta « nous vous mettrons une belle porte . Nous avons besoin d'apporter du matériel , quelques outils de creusement et ainsi de suite et voir si nous pouvons niveler une route, pour faire passer un camion , dans lequel nous pourrons mettre le ballon. » Finalement le père de José accepta et ils continuèrent à parler en espagnol. Il dit merci et il s'en alla.Il ajouta « Faites attention que personne n'aille par là , parce que vous savez, c'était très important. Il ne faut pas que personne le sache . Nous ne voulons pas occasionner d' ennuis à personne. Aussi faites attention à ce qu' aucun groupe se rende sur place. » . Faustino répondit »OK »et le sergent Avila commença les préparatifs officiels pour emmener le craft.Le recouvrement ne se passa pas comme on le décrit dans les livres ufologiques, avec beaucoup de personnel en uniforme assisté d'hélicoptères et il n'y eut pas de voiture médicale. Rien de tout ça!
P:
Et ils ne portaient pas de vêtements de protection?
R:
Ils portaient leurs tenues de travail. Ils mirent une tente, et une radio avec de la musique occidentale.
P:
Vous les regardiez?
R:
Oui, nous les regardions chaque fois que nous le pouvions ,le matin et le soir. C'était notre job de maintenir les barrières en état, de surveiller le troupeau et les chevaux. Nous entendions la musique. Il y avait un type de surveillance à la tente et deux ou trois autres, qui ramassaient les débris. Ils les emportaient dans les remorques des camions. Ils avaient des postes de soudure, des lampes à acétylène, et ils taillèrent la falaise pour faire passer l'objet sur le côté. Puis nous nous sommes aperçus qu'ils faisaient cela pour le descendre sous le pont autoroutier àsuivant un angle de 45 degrès .
P:
L'ont-ils attaché ou mis une bâche dessus?
R
Oui, ils ont mis une bâche dessus.
P:
Et attaché?
R:
Non.
Ces soldats étaient des enfants Ils allaient beaucoup au bar de la chouette et au café, souvent.
P:
Qu'est ce qu'est la Chouette?
R:
Le bar de la Chouette, et le café. Ils étaient tous les deux tenus par Estanislado Miera. Dans le parking, il y avait un poteau de basket ,où on jouait. Ils avaient ce qu'on appelle une fontaine avec des glaces et des coktails. Il y avait aussi un juke -box. C'est là où les soldats passaient leurs loisirs. Donc nous y allions pour y jouer au cerceau et quelquefois Estalinodo sortait et nous demandait de leur donner un coup de main. Parfois nous l' aidions et nous faisions les hamburgers, la vaisselle ou nettoyions les lieux.
P:
Donc, ces types y allaient.
R:
Oui certains y allaient pour déjeuner, d'autres y allaient pour dîner.
P:
Et vous les avez vous vu ramasser les débris du site du crash.
R:
Oui.
P:
Laisons le vaisseau et dites moi comment vous avez obtenu ce métal.
R:
Le dernier jour, ils ont apporté une petite grue de 4,5m. à 6m. J'imagine et ils ont chargé le vaisseau sur la remorque du camion..
P:
Est-ce qu'ils vous voyaient?
R:
Je ne crois pas qu'ils nous voyaient, ou qu'ils faisaient attention à nous.
P:
En somme, vous faisiez partie de la scène.
R:
Oui, vous savez , ils ne nous regardaient pas et il y avait de la végétation de chaque côté de la colline, et nous n'étions pas grands et c'était facile pour nous, de nous cacher. Nous n'allions pas près d'eux et nous ne leur parlions pas. Oh, parfois nous leur parlions au café, mais pas beaucoup parce que nous n'avions rien en commun. Le travail qu'ils faisaient n'avaient pas d'importance à leurs yeux. Il ne semblait pas y avoir beaucoup d'amitié entre eux. Nous ne croyons pas qu'ils savaient combien cet objet était important ,et à ce moment-là, nous non plus.
Des années plus tard, un des soldats se maria avec une des cousines de José.
P:
Vous dites que l'un d'eux épousa la cousine de José et la première question qui me vient, est: A-t-il parlé de l'incident?
R:
Avec José?
P:
Non.
R:
Avec le père de José?
P:
Le militaire a parlé avec le père de José. Vous souvenez-vous de ce qu'il a dit?
R:
Je n'étais pas là , mais José le sait.
J'ai l'impression qu'avec les années il devenait plus commode de dire qu'il s'agissait d'un ballon météo.
P
C'est ce qu'il disait: un ballon météo .Mais il ne pensait pas que ce l'était. Je crois qu' il n'a jamais dit quoi que ce soit de plus et jamais révélé ce qu'il a vu à l'intérieur!
R:
Je ne crois pas qu'il le savait. Il faisait juste son job, ramassait les débris, terminait son service militaire pour rentrer à la maison. La guerre était finie et beaucoup de soldats avaient été réquisitionnés pour ces derniers 90 jours.
P:
Il ne savait pas ,aussi son job était seulement de faire de la récupération. Mais il pensait que ce n'était pas un ballon météo. OK.Ainsi, vous alliez au café et tout ce qui se passait...
R:
Nous allions au café boire un coke et écouter de la musique.Il semblait que ces types ne soient même pas au courant que nous existions. Ils étaient comme des robots. Pour nous, cela se comprenait. Et le dernier jour, José et moi nous sommes allés sur le site, nous nous sommes assis sur la bruyère où ils ne pouvaient pas nous voir. Nous les avons regardé conduire le camion en dehors de la route, prendre une bache et la fixer parfaitement sur les côtés. José dit: Je crois qu'ils vont l'emmener aujourd'hui. Je dis oui, comment allons nous nous souvenir?
P:
Vous avez dit cela?
R:
Oui pendant la guerre nous perdions tant de proches que nous cherchions à trouver quelque chose pour se rappeler d'eux, quand nous disions nos prières. Parce que lorsqu'ils mourraient à la guerre , on ne récupérait rien d'eux. On ramenait le cercueil plombé flanqué de deux gardes et on le brûlait. José me dit qu'on allait les laisser partir ,attendre un peu, puis qu'on y retournerait.On attendit et ils s'en allèrent. Ils avaient leurs camions militaires et ils partirent. Nous savions où ils allaient .Ils étaient partis pour un bout de temps. Nous sommes retournés sur le site et nous avons retrouvé le raccourci. Ils étaient passés de l'autre côté et ils ne savaient même pas qu'il y avait un raccourci. Aussi nous nous sommes frayés un chemin jusqu'à l'objet, derrière le camion et nous nous sommes arrétés. Si nous faisions un pas de plus ,il y avait une profondeur d'un mètre. Peut-être que nous nous sommes trompés de quelques dizaines de cm, mais nous avons mesuré 7,50m. à 9 m. sur 4,20m de hauteur. Et nous avons regardé la partie souterraine du vaisseau , que nous n'avions pas encore vue.C'était enfoncé dans la terre. Enfin nous pouvions voir la chose entière .Dieu, c'était un monstre, c'était gros!
Nous pouvions voir la base et à la base il y avait trois petites indentations des sortes de sillons dessous, de chaque côté.
P:
C'était peut-être des pieds d'atterrissage. Peut-être escamotables.
R:
Peut-être.
P:
Alors José dégagea un peu la bâche et on vit l'ouverture sur le côté du vaisseau et pendant que je maintenais la bache ouverte, José sauta dans l'ouverture.
P:
A l'intérieur du trou?
R:
A l'intérieur du trou!
P:
Il est donc allé à l'intérieur du trou et vous écartiez la bâche pour éclairer un peu l'intérieur?
R:
Au début, on ne voyait rien.
P:
Mais pouviez-vous voir les formes, s'il y avait des pièces, si le pourtour était lisse, s'il y avait des panneaux? Expliquez moi.
R:
José a dit qu'il y avait des rebords de plusieurs dizaines de cm.
P:
Il n'a pas vu de panneaux, comme des panneaux de contrôle?
R:
Il n'a pas vu de panneau,de grand panneau.On a parlé seulement d'un panneau de 75 cm.environ.
P:
Etait-il attaché au mur, ce panneau?
R:
A la cloison peut-être? Au mur arrière.
P:
C'était un panneau à l'intérieur, formant cloison, dites-vous? Etait-il contre le mur ce panneau?
R:
Il était attaché à la cloison.
P:
A la cloison.
R:
Oui.
P:
OK.
R:
C'était le mur arrière pour nous.
P:
A-t-il pu pousser cette chose? Je pense qu'il l'a poussé?
R:
Il a essayé de la secouer mais il n'a pas pu et il est allé chercher une barre de traction...
P:
De la remorque du tracteur...
R:
Quelque chose comme un levier. C'est appelé :barre de traction dans l'industrie du camionnage et c'est utilisé pour tester la solidité de chaînes tirant une charge avec une remorque de tracteur.
P:
Vous décrivez les fixations et elles étaient comme...
R:
Oui, de manière plus rapide.C'était une fixation en forme de dents de scie qui étazient dans les trous et c'est ce qui attachait cette sorte d'objet en crochet sur le panneau localisé sur la paroi.(mur réel)
Les fixations semblaient jaunes...
P:
Les fixations semblaient jaunes? Ma question suivante est :avez-vous vu d'autres couleurs? La couleur argentée des fils que je compare à des cheveux d'ange...
R :
Du jaune.
P:
Les attaches étaient jaunes Avez-vous vu d'autres couleurs à l'intérieur? Des fils argentés, comme ce que j'appellerai, des cheveux d'ange?
R
Pas de sièges. Rien. Il peut avoir été nettoyé ou peut-être qu'il n'y avait rien! On ne voyait ancun appareil comme des outils de mesure, des pendules, des volants de conduite, des pédales de direction, quelque chose comme cela.
P:
Etait-ce gris à l'intérieur?
R:
La partie basse était plus sombre que la partie haute. Gris clair.
P:
Mais est-ce que vous aviez peur d'être découverts ou étiez relaxés parce que vous saviez où étaient partis les militaires et que c'était loin, donc que vous pouviez prendre votre temps?...
R:
Nous essayions de nous dépêcher, car nous avions peur d'être découverts. Relaxés? Vous savez, nous étions des enfants. Je n'ai jamais été aussi relaxé depuis.
P:
Vous pensez que c'était plutôt du métal lourd?...Non pas vraiment? Etait-ce à votre avis, un métal terrestre? Vous ne pouvez le dire. Mais le morceau comme de la matière d'emballage Philip Moris, était différent. Il venait d'où?
R:
Quand il y a eu l'accident, nous sommes allés sur le site du crash. Il y avait quelques brins de métal qui ressemblaient à des cheveux d'ange. On l' utilisait, quand les gens n'avaient pas de lumières pour décorer le sapin de Noël. Cette matière ressemblait aux cheveux d'ange. J'ai aussi trouvé un morceau de métal brillant.
P:

Il était à moitié attaché?
R:
Sous une pierre, où je l'ai vu d'abord. Je l'ai désincrusté. Il avait sa propre forme. Je l'ai plié et il s'est déplié, bizarre.
P:
Combien de morceaux avez- vous jetés dans la tranchée?
R:
Nous y avons jeté pas mal de morceaux!
P:
Ce sont eux que je serai curieuse de voir.
R:
C'est ce que beaucoup de gens aimeraient tenir dans leurs mains.
P:
C'est très intéressant. Vous disiez qu'il avait sa propre forme...
R:
Je veux dire que si on le pliait, il revenait dans sa forme originale.
P:
C'est vraiment intéressant. C'est ce qu'on disait des morceaux de Roswell, ce que Jesse Marcel junior racontait des morceaux que son père avait ramenés à la maison . Il les avait étalés sur le sol de la cuisine. Il y en avait beaucoup.
Semblait-il rayonner?
R:
Je ne savais pas comment était un rayon « optique » .
P:
Vous n'avez pas vu de rayons de forme structurée?
R:
Je ne me rappelle pas.
P:
Vous êtes donc entrés à l'intérieur ? Puis vous êtes sortis? Commbien de temps y êtes-vous restés?
R:
Je ne sais pas . Pas très longtemps.
C'est ce qui était dans le vaisseau, quand nous y sommes allés. Nous n'avions pas l'électricité à la maison, aussi quand vint Noël, nous avons décoré l'arbre avec des choses non électriques, comme des pop corn, des objets givrés, du papier alu, et des cheveux d'ange. Cette année-là , nous avons mis les cheveux d'ange du vaisseau accidenté du ranch Padillo. Vous savez ce que c'est?
P:
Oui, je sais exactement ce que c'est.
R:
C'est ce que nous avions. C'était complètement répandu à l'intérieur du vaisseau.
P:
OK. J'ai entendu une autre histoire et on m'a dit qu'il s'agissait de fibres optiques brûlées. Ce sont des fibres optiques.Comme des cheveux d'ange blancs. Parfait. Parce que ce sont des parties du mécanisme du vaisseau. Et Charles Hall m'a dit qu'il avait vu aussi un vaisseau avec un trou rempli de cette matière...
Fin de la première partie de la cassette.






Partie 2:
P:
Donc ,vous vouliez avoir un morceau de métal.
R:
Et nous l'avons pris.
P:
Lorsque vous discutiez ensemble étant enfants, parliez-vous des êtres?
R:
Oui, leurs têtes ressemblaient à des « Campamocha ». C'est ce qu'on a vu.
P:
Vous voulez dire que vous les avez vus, et qu'ils étaient comme des insectes
R:
Oui, ils nous semblaient très moches au début. Leurs têtes ressemblaient à des Campamocha.
P:
Voulez-vous dire le mot en anglais?
R:
La plus proche traduction serait: un diable, un insecte, une mante religieuse.
P:
Oh ce pourrait être...
R:
De gros yeux saillants...Vous savez. Tout le monde les appelle les gris, mais je n'ai pas vu de gris, donc je ne sais pas.
P:
Mais ce peut être tout à fait autre chose...
R:
Ils avaient de gros yeux saillants. Je ne sais pas s'ils mesuraient vraiment 1,20 m. de haut, mais j'ai pensé à cette taille.1,2m et ils étaient très minces, des bras comme des aiguilles...
P:
Je ne connais pas l'expression « mince comme une aiguille »
R:
Je ne sais pas combien de doigts.
P:
Vous disiez, ils semblaient glisser. Avaient-ils des vêtements, et...
R:
Oui, ils portaient un justaucorps très serré ou c'était leur peau .
P:
Quelle couleur le justaucorps? Grise.
R:
Oui gris clair.
P:
Et leur tête était plutôt grosse ? proportionnellement?
R:
La tête semblait assez grosse et ressemblait à un campamocha.
P:
OK. C'est OK.
R:
Elle n'est pas comme ils disent.
P:
Non, non, je comprends, non non .Parce que j'ai déjà entendu cela. Elle avait des bosses, n'est-ce pas?
R:
La tête avait des bosses et de gros yeux. Et une sorte de fente pour le nez...On ne voit pas le nez au départ, parce que les yeux sont trop volumineux. Le corps n'était pas gros, vous savez, mince,ça veut dire fragile. Ils étaient de faible constitution.
P:
Si vous en voulez un, je peux vous faire un dessin d'eux , mais Campamocha, le décrit très bien.
P:
Et vous disiez qu'ils glissaient à l'intérieur , plutôt que marcher ou courir. Ils semblaient glisser.
R:
Il le semblait. Ils se déplaçaient d'un point à un autre.
P:
Mais vous saviez quelque chose par eux. Ils s'étaient comme connectés à vous, d'une certaine façon. Bien , vous disiez que des images venaient dans votre tête.
R:
Oui, j'en suis sûr.
P:
Vous savez, on ne voit pas les yeux, à moins que les yeux vous regardent .
R:
José et moi regardions le vaisseau, avec les jumelles. Il était tourné vers nous mais je ne regardais pas directement dans ses yeux , d'après ce que je me rappelle. Il était assez loin. Je comprenais , mais ce que nous ressentions était de la peine. Nous étions réellement désolés pour eux, parce que nous ressentions leur douleur. Ils semblaient comme nous, des enfants!
P:
Oh OK. C'est certainement intéressant, Rème. Je n'ai pas de référence, de cas semblable pour comparer.
R:
Il me semblait qu'ils souffraient.
P:
Ils souffraient et ils savaient ce qu'ils voyaient dans vos yeux. Avez-vous parlé d'eux , vous et José?
R:
Oui. Nous étions ensemble et nous en avons parlé quand nous étions enfants ,c'est certain.
P:
Oui.
R:
Oui. Nous parlions d'eux, nous étions sûrs que personne n'était aux alentours
P:
D'eux , les êtres?
R:
Les créatures. Peuvent-elles parler?
P:
Non. Que disait José sur les êtres?Je sais ce que vous, vous ressentiez quelque chose .
R:
Que disait-il sur eux? Ce qu'il sentait? La même chose que moi. Oui. Etait-il désolé pour eux? Pas autant que moi, mais il l'était. Nous étions terrifiés quand nous les regardions, parfois on voulait se rapprocher, parfois on était dégoûté ou on était malheureux pour eux. Normalement on est désolé pour des amis, des parents proches s'il leur arrive quelque chose. Je ne connaissais pas ces créatures. Nous étions curieux.C'était des étrangers, nous ne savions pas qui, ils étaient mais nous savions qu'ils étaient différents.
P:
Oh OK. Donc ,vous sentiez leur émotion.
R:
Et on entendait les sons! Nous avons essayé d'écouter d'où venaient les sons. Nous avons pensé qu'ils venaient d'eux.
P:
Probablement. Combien de temps pensez-vous que votre expérience a duré?
R:
Tout le temps qu'ils restèrent là.
P:
Et?
R:
Probablement une demi-heure à trois quarts d'heure.
P:
Vous êtes restés une demi-heure à trois quart d'heure, à l'endroit ,où ces êtres étaient? Vous n'aviez pas peur?
R:
Nous avions peur. Oui!
P:
Et vous êtes quand même restés?
R:
Nous sommes restés. José était curieux sur les créatures aussi. Il voulait les aider. Oui, José essaya de me dire en allant dans l'objet, qu'il fallait les aider et j'essayais de 'en empêcher. Pourtant je me sentais concerné aussi.l
P:
José y est-il allé et...
R:
Nous ne savions pas ce que c'était, qui ils étaient et ce qu'ils faisaient ici. Je ne me sentais pas tranquille.
P:
Vous vous demandiez comment l'expérience allait finir...J'imagine ce que ça devait être...
De l'inquiétude d'abord. Puis l'angoisse...Je pense que les gens ordinaires auraient eu peur et se seraient sauvés, quand ils les auraient vus. Mais vous êtes restés...
R:
Quelque chose nous retenait là.
P:
Quelque chose vous retenait . Parce que vous vouliez comprendre.
R:
Oui, nous voulions comprendre.Ensuite , nous sommes partis, nous sommes rentrés au ranch.
P:
Vous n'avez pas noté de signes écrits, ou de hiéroglyphes sur le matériel ? Trop rapide peut-être pour le voir! Vous les avez-vu glisser d'un côté et d'autre et combien étaient-ils? Trois ou quatre?
R:
Oui, trois ou quatre.
P:
N'avez-vous rien entendu? Vous avez seulement entendu ce son haut perché? Bon, leur vaisseau était accidenté.
R:
Il y avait encore du brouillard à cet endroit et il était partiellement enterré.
P:
Vous avez pris un morceau dans le vaisseau, alors qui l'a gardé?
R:
C'est José qui l'a gardé probablement deux jours, puis il me l'a apporté et je l'ai caché sous le plancher de la remise près de la route, où ils campaient chaque nuit. José m'avait dit que quelques soldats avaient contacté son père et lui avaient demandé la permission d'utiliser sa cabane à outils et sa maison et il ne voulait pas que son père ait des ennuis.
P:
Et alors?
R:
R:
Les militaires allèrent dans la remise et la maison. Ils pririrent du métal ,des ballons météo et donnèrent un reçu. du matériel qu'ils avaient entreposé.
Puis le berger, un ami de longue date de mon père vint en ville, pour parquer le troupeau dans les stalles à bestiaux, où les bêtes restaient une nuit avant leur transport par chemin de fer, le lendemain. Et expédié. En fait , nous l'avons accompagné dans la remise, où ils campaient la nuit et qu'ils utilisaient pour faire et manger une bonne soupe et nous les avons rejoint pour le dîner. Puis nous sommes rentrés à la maison. Le jour suivant, le berger alla à la remise et donna un petit agneau à mon père . Quand José et moi avions pris le petit objet du vaisseau comme souvenir, nous l'avions appelé « Tesoro ». Nous étions les seuls qui connaissions le nom. Traduit, cela devint trésor.
P:
OK. Trésor.
R:
C'était notre trésoro. Le berger vint à la maison , le matin pendant que nous terminions notre déjeuner. La maison où mon père travaillait, était en congé, et il n'était pas au courant de notre secret bien gardé. Le berger frappa à la porte. Je répondis et il dit : « Puis-je parler à votre père? - Bien sûr. Entrez! » Père dit: « Venez Pedro, vous allez prendre une tasse de café. Nous finissons juste de déjeuner. » Il s'assit et dit: « Alejandro , vous savez, je vais devoir quitter cet endroit-. Pourquoi?-Bien, vous savez la nuit dernière , j'étais endormi et je me suis réveillé. J'ai vu cette lumière dehors, il y avait une lumière dehors et...
P:
Qui est cet homme?
R:C'est Pedro , le berger.
P:
Le berger. OK.
R:
Un bon ami de mon père.
P:
OK. OK.Il a vu cette lumière.
R:
Et il a dit:J'ai regardé dehors et ensuite j'ai vu ces trois « cafards » dans ma chambre, dans ma maison avec la porte fermée. Et il montra du doigt le plancher et il parla de Tesoro.
P:
Oh non. Vous ne m'aviez pas dit cette partie de l'histoire! C'est incroyable ! Oh mon Dieu!OK et là...
R:
Et ils montraient l'endroit du doigt . Et il disait: « Tesoro. Il y a un trésor là -dessous. »
P:
OK
« Ces types ont fait cela, dit Pedro, et j'ai sorti mon fusil et je l'ai braqué sur eux. Parce qu'ils n'avaient rien à faire chez moi. J'ai pris mon fusil et ils sont partis. Mais vous savez , ils sont passés à travers le mur. Pouvez-vous croire cela, Alejandro? ».Mon coeur battait et je priai silencieusement. Je ne voulais pas créer des ennuis et mon père ne savait rien de l'expérience du ranch Padilla.
P:
OK
R:
Mon père répondit « entendu! Pedro»Puis il dit à mon frère aîné, Dave, allons -y, prends une pelle et un levier.
P:
Le frère aîné de qui?
R:
Le mien.
P:
Le vôtre. OK.
R:
Il attrapa le levier, il montra le plancher et il fit un pas et dit: « -Où? Et Pedro montra :-Là! Juste dans le centre de la pièce. » Je priais silencieusement. Dieu! Je souhaitais qu'ils ne le trouvent pas. Il creusa au centre et il ne trouva rien. Et il creusa autour avec la pelle et il n'y avait rien. Il dit : « il n'y a rien ici. » Avec les ongles, il râclait les côtés .Puis mon père dit : « Il ne s'est probablement rien passé ici. Ne vous faites pas de souci avec ça, s'il y a quelque chose, dites le moi et nous le réglerons à ce moment-là. »
Tout le monde était content et ce fut la fin de l'épisode . Je vis José , le jour suivant à la poste, et je lui dis: « hé viens chez moi et reprends le tesero, il se passe trop de choses avec lui. » Il est venu , il l'a repris chez lui et il l'a mis avec d'autres babioles dans le sous-sol de sa maison. A l'époque, il y avait de l'espace sous les maisons à cause des inondations. Donc José mit le tesoro dans quelques boites sous sa maison et il reposa là , jusqu'en 1963, quand ils revint après être allé en Californie .Il était parti pour la Californie à la fin de 1954. En 1963, il revint pour réparer le moulin , puisqu'il avait acheté quelques parts du moulin. Le gardien buvait beaucoup et José eut du mal à le trouver. José décida d'emporter toutes les boites en Californie et les mit dans son grenier dans son garage.en Califonie. La plupart du contenu de ces boites était de vieux plats, des bouteilles, des anciens papiers des lettres, des revues et de la camelote sans usage. C'est là que tout resta, jusqu'en 2001-2002 quand j'ai rencontré son fils sur Internet, qui m'informa que le nom de son père était José et qu'il venait de San Antonio. Je l'ai appelé et nous avons évoqué tous nos souvenirs de jeunesse
et parlé d'un objet qui avait la forme d'un avocat, qui avait eu un accident sur le ranch où, petits garçons, nous surveillions une vache prête à vêler. Peu importe le nom de ce que que nous avions pris dans cet objet: Del Oroso, Soccoro, Ah! Tesoro. Oui c'était cela Tesoro! « Tu sais quoi, dit José, il doit être encore là, reposant dans le grenier, il y a si longtemps que je l'avais oublié. Laisse moi y aller voir et savoir si je le trouve ».
P:
Le véritable petit objet, dont vous vous rappelez? Le vrai ? OK.
R:
Oui. Tresoro. Il le trouva et il l'expédia.( Fed-Ex(?)
P:
Il vous l'a expédié parce que vous le vouliez., n'est-ce pas?
R:
Oui, parce que je désirai que l'on fasse des tests.

Additionnal photos related to the San Antonio crash :





























Love Always
mudra








Love Always
mudra

Veritas Show - Paola Harris - Close Encounter of the Third Kind - 1 of 5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqc2KEpus-k


Love Always
mudra

Adding this newer conference Exopolotics hosted by Paolo Harris