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    The University of Solar System Studies


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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:49 am

    Thank-you magamud and Susan. That strange 'person' was very strange. Who knows what sort of genetic-engineering goes on in secret laboratories?? Who knows how advanced holographic technology really is?? Who knows what the true nature of the 'soul' really is?? What if ALL of us are Reptilian-Human Hybrids -- with varying differential-percentages one way or the other?? Once again, we are playing a guessing-game. The religion thing is a guessing-game. My bias is toward some sort of Judeo-Christianity -- but I know that this model is highly flawed in all of its various forms. Everything is so absurd. I am extremely disillusioned with the overall situation we find ourselves in. The level of sophistication at the highest levels of the secret-government is probably beyond comprehension -- but I'm not certain that this sophistication is in the best-interest of humanity. I feel very weak and helpless. I'll probably just keep doing what I'm doing -- hoping that things will eventually improve -- even though I know that they won't. Truth-seeking and moralistic-reflection often seems to be an exercise in futility. The level of education and access required to really understand what's going on is beyond nearly all of us -- or perhaps I should just speak for myself. The cultural-imperialism and arrogance of well-meaning missionaries is highly unfortunate. I think we've all been had -- regardless of whether we are good or bad -- human or otherwise. I'll continue this cold-war -- but I don't expect a happy outcome -- no matter what I do -- and no matter how hard I try. I expect that even my very passive quest will be shut-down at some point in the near future. I'm trying to be on everyone's side -- but just trying to make things better seems to go counter to whatever is being inflicted upon humanity. I continue to suspect that Earth-Humanity will never be allowed to become truly successful and happy. We seem to be sentenced to Purgatory -- with the threat of Hell -- and the promise of Heaven -- to motivate us to perform our daily tasks in a somewhat acceptable manner. I keep getting the strong impression that those at the top of the pyramid do NOT want us to figure things out -- and to become all that we are capable of being. I am VERY worried and VERY frightened presently. Some say that President Obama is not just another human-being -- but that he is some sort of a computerized, chip-implanted hybrid -- with several 'Obamas' in existence. Damned if I know if any of this is true. I could say more -- but I think I've said too much already. I'm really tired of this guessing-game. I'm really tired of wondering how much trouble I'm really in -- at all levels of my existence -- and in all of the various files on me, which are undoubtedly becoming larger by the minute.
    magamud wrote:The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Frozen_in_time_by_belanna42-d5onlbt

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Icecaveman

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Caveman

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 CavemanLogo

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Caveman_groucho_glasses_258075

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Caveman_masterpiece_theatre_668885

    Iceman wake up scene

    Raven wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:I feel very weak and helpless. I'll probably just keep doing what I'm doing -- hoping that things will eventually improve -- even though I know that they won't. Truth-seeking and moralistic-reflection often seems to be an exercise in futility. I'll continue this cold-war -- but I don't expect a happy outcome -- no matter what I do -- and no matter how hard I try.I expect that even my very passive quest will be shut-down at some point in the near future. I'm trying to be on everyone's side -- but just trying to make things better seems to go counter to whatever is being inflicted upon humanity. I continue to suspect that Earth-Humanity will never be allowed to become truly successful and happy. We seem to be sentenced to Purgatory -- with the threat of Hell --and the promise of Heaven -- to motivate us to perform our daily tasks in a somewhat acceptable manner. I keep getting the strong impression that those at the top of the pyramid do NOT want us to figure things out -- and to become all that we are capable of being. I am VERY worried and VERY frightened presently. I'm really tiredof this guessing-game. I'm really tired of wondering how much trouble I'm really in -- at all levels of my existence -- and in all of the various files on me, which are undoubtedly becoming larger by the minute.

    (24) His disciples said to him, "Show us the place where you are, since it is necessary for us to seek it."

    He said to them, "Whoever has ears, let him hear. There is light within a man of light, and he lights up the whole world. If he does not shine, he is darkness."

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 139717The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 343335The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 139717

    2 Timothy 2:7
    - Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

    Corinthians 14:33 - For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

    Matthew 7:21-23

    King James Version (KJV)

    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom
    of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy
    name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many
    wonderful works?
    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Acts 1:18-19 Now this man purchased a field with
    the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the
    midst, and all his bowels gushed out. And it was known unto all the
    dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper
    tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 511220748The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 360865The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 511220748
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Big_201331619173222

    orthodoxymoron wrote:I feel very weak and helpless. I'll probably just keep doing what I'm doing -- hoping that things will eventually improve -- even though I know that they won't. Truth-seeking and moralistic-reflection often seems to be an exercise in futility. I'll continue this cold-war -- but I don't expect a happy outcome -- no matter what I do -- and no matter how hard I try.I expect that even my very passive quest will be shut-down at some point in the near future. I'm trying to be on everyone's side -- but just trying to make things better seems to go counter to whatever is being inflicted upon humanity. I continue to suspect that Earth-Humanity will never be allowed to become truly successful and happy. We seem to be sentenced to Purgatory -- with the threat of Hell --and the promise of Heaven -- to motivate us to perform our daily tasks in a somewhat acceptable manner. I keep getting the strong impression that those at the top of the pyramid do NOT want us to figure things out -- and to become all that we are capable of being. I am VERY worried and VERY frightened presently. I'm really tired of this guessing-game. I'm really tired of wondering how much trouble I'm really in -- at all levels of my existence -- and in all of the various files on me, which are undoubtedly becoming larger by the minute.

    orthodoxymoron wrote:Well Raven! Things were just starting to get interesting! I really enjoyed our conversation - including the post where you cussed me out! I think I deserved a lot of that - and I took what you said seriously. I actually miss you. You obviously know a helluva lot. I sensed some dark spirituality - but that may go with the territory. I sometimes wondered if you might be the modern incarnation of Kali - or at least a goddess-type of person with some sort of connection to Kali, Mary, the Goddess of This World, or the Queen of Heaven. I'm not a scholar or an experiencer - so I don't really know. I really and truly am an ignoramus. My egotistical posting style is really a cover for my rather substantial insecurities. Sounds kinda sexy - doesn't it?! I actually liked the porno part of all of this! I am more repressed than you can imagine - but I do like to joke around - and I am not easily offended - especially online! In person - things would be entirely different. I suspect that the real Queen of Heaven is highly intelligent and highly refined - yet very, very tough, decisive, harsh, reprobate - and able to swear like a trooper! You'd be amazed at the mental picture I have of the Queen of Heaven! But this is merely a hypothesis and a figment of my diseased imagination. I will probably continue to work with this subject for years - or at least until disclosure occurs. Anyway - regardless of who you really are, Raven - it's been a pleasure. Perhaps we can share a bottle of fine French wine someday! Namaste.

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 425190Cheers Oxy!!

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    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Empty Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:56 am

    Thank-you magamud and Raven. I think I have chosen isolation -- and posting on this website -- to test myself and strengthen myself internally. I know that most of those who frequent this site (whether they are members or not) know a lot more than I do (at least in this incarnation) yet they mostly remain silent -- and I think I know why. Every Day and in Every Way I Am Getting Better and Better -- Despite Appearances. I know I'm being watched in ways I probably can't even imagine -- but perhaps all of us are. Perhaps all of us have been watched -- lifetime after lifetime after lifetime -- with all of our thoughts, words, and deeds recorded in excruciating detail. Perhaps all of this will become known to the entire universe in the Final Judgment. Many of us might NOT be as good as we think we are. Consider researching Salvation Texts in Sacred Scripture. Do most of them involve the Substitutionary Atonement?? Does Animal and Human Sacrifice Really Excuse Sin and Irresponsibility?? Will Ignorance and Apathy be Legitimate Defenses in the Final Judgment?? Does Character Determine Destiny?? What if Most (or All) of the Souls in This Solar System are the Worst of the Worst from Throughout the Universe?? What if the War in Heaven (and Earth) was an Archangelic False-Flag Specifically Intended to Cleanse the Sanctuary?? To me, reading the Bible is a deeply spiritual experience -- yet I have HUGE problems with a lot of what I read therein. What's really going on here?? I find the Traditional Mass to be a deeply spiritual experience -- yet I have HUGE problems with the symbology and interpretation. What's really going on here??

    I have spoken with a couple of people, in particular, who I really liked -- yet what they said DEEPLY troubled me. I have wondered if they were somehow Archangelic (or at least Archangelic Representatives). What was (and is) really going on here?? What if my very unsatisfying and strange life (in this incarnation) is preparing me for something of significance in my next incarnation?? I continue to be VERY troubled by Human History -- yet I am VERY supportive of the Human Race (in theory). I think most people have NO idea how much trouble they are really in. My limited understanding of our predicament makes me VERY afraid. Is this a sign that I am an evil-soul -- or is it a sign that I am in the process of Cleansing My Soul of Everything Which Defiles the Sanctuary?? Perhaps those who are Most Smug will be those who will be Weeping, Wailing, and Gnashing Their Teeth in the near-future. Perhaps Disclosure Will Create Pandemonium. I don't mean to be negative -- but if you REALLY study my tripe in this thread over a period of months and years I think you might be in for a VERY rude awakening. I think the topics I have touched upon are very real and very important -- regardless of whether I've gotten it right or wrong. Once again, this thread is intended to make us think (especially myself) -- by being contrarian and provocative. Internally, I am very different than what I post. Perhaps those who read these words of mine (and laugh at me) are more 'on-trial' than I am. When the General-Public discovers what I think some of you Big-Shots (Human and Otherwise) have done -- God won't even be able to help you -- or so it seems to me.

    I still don't know where the proper balance point is in the discussion (or non-discussion) of Solar System Governance. I will be supportive of any reasonable solutions or steps in the right direction. (as if it made any difference) I'm hoping that ALL factions will conduct their conflicts in a kinder and gentler manner. After you all stop laughing - please spend some quality time considering what a perfected humanity, living in a perfected solar system, might look like. I'm not trying to end Constructive Competition - but I am trying to destroy Destructive Competition. We should all be good - but how good is too good? Think about THAT - 'till the smoke starts billowing out of your ears. Check this out. Someone other than me thinks that Lucifer is alive and well, and living in this dimension. Lucifer Rising by Philip Jones (5-13-09):

    "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiter's of the earth and of the sea, for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." -- Revelation 12:12

    Introduction. As an amateur researcher and writer, with perhaps too much time on his hands, I am fortunate to be able to devote many hours a day reading books and online articles relating to what I will call in this essay the Luciferian Conspiracy. I make no pretensions that what follows is in any way original or even innovative. Most of it excepting my own personal observations can be found in much greater detail elsewhere, and for that purpose, I have included a full bibliography and reference section at article's end. What I have tried to do here is collect information gleaned from reading the work of such exceptional researchers as William J. Sutton, Fritz Springmeier, William F. Jasper, Henry Makow, David Livingstone and Texe Marrs, and create a condensed summary of evidence which will show that as it says in the Bible verse above, Lucifer is amongst us, and the mayhem and chaos we are now experiencing on an international scale in this the first decade of the 21st century, is due to the culmination of many millenia of plotting and planning by the eternal adversary as mentioned in the Holy Scriptures.

    If only four years ago, someone had made a similar assertion to me as that above, I would have raised an eyebrow or two, and politely or not, dismissed the idea. But all of my research these past few years has led me to believe just that; That Lucifer is real, and is here on earth, in this dimension, and through those who descend directly from his line, and their puppets, he is causing havoc and chaos in an attempt to seat himself, or his proxy on the throne of a World State, and to inaugurate a New Religion with himself it's sole deity.

    During my investigations into the Illuminati Brotherhood and their diabolical machinations to cull and enslave mankind, I had until quite recently been oblivious to an aspect of the Global Conspiracy which in it's breadth, depth and scope is like no other. I am speaking about the New Age Movement and it's plan to introduce a World Religion. I have tried to be as brief and to the point as possible, and hope the reader will have the patience to stick with me. My ultimate intention here is to lead people to the work of those dedicated men listed above, which in turn will help others to truly come to terms with the realisation, that for all it's mystical hype and apparent diversity, what many now refer to as `The Rainbow Conspiracy` is in reality the `Luciferian Conspiracy`.

    Below, I have tried to connect as many of those `dots` as an article of this type allows, in order to draw a red line through each of the many interconnecting aspects of what the New Age terms `The Plan` and what Freemasonry calls `The Great Work Of Ages`. Call it what you will, by `essay's end` , it should become obvious that what we are dealing with is Lucifer's rebellion against God.

    The Far Pavillions. During the 1960s and '70s, large numbers of disillusioned intellectuals, alienated students and others from the West, travelled to India and other points east seeking "truth, wisdom, enlightenment, and good karma" from a ready made supply of gurus, swamis, yogis, and other self styled "Illuminated masters." Few understood that they were merely following in the footsteps of a woman who a hundred or so years earlier had trodden a similar path and set out the foundations for the present occult revival being experienced globally, and whose work is pivotal to the spiritual character of the United Nations today and the cause of a World Religion.

    That woman was Helena P. Blavatsky (1831-1891), widely regarded as the high priestess of the modern New Age Movement. Blavatsky founded the Theosophical Society in New York in 1875, and during her lifetime, established close relations with Freemasonry, receiving the Certificate of the `Rite Of Adoption` from Mason John Yarker in 1877. Blavatsky's Theosophy taught arcane "knowledge" (Gnosis), the universal brotherhood of mankind, and unity among all religions, except the monotheistic religions, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism , which she insisted could not be reconciled with what she termed "individual enlightenment."

    Blavatsky damned Yahweh as a "capricious and unjust." God. In her view, he was the God of the Israelites and nothing more. She insisted that the Holy Scriptures were wrong, it was really Lucifer who was the `Good and Just God`, victimised by the harsh and unjust Yahweh. Blavatsky maintained that the the name Satan, belonged by right to the first and cruelest "Adversary" of all other Gods, and not to the serpent which spoke only words of sympathy and wisdom. She somehow reasoned that Satan/Lucifer is GOD the Creator, the Savior, the Father; and that Jesus is "the first born brother of Satan." She wrote, "Satan, the Serpent of Genesis, is the real creator and benefactor, the Father of Spiritual mankind. For it is he ... who opened the eyes of the automaton (Adam) created by Yahweh, as alleged.... An adversary to him ... he still remains in Esoteric Truth the ever loving messenger ... who conferred on us spiritual instead of physical immortality."

    She claimed to have had experience with astral projection and the ability to communicate with the spirit world. Her books, `Isis Unveiled` and her three-volume, `The Secret Doctrine` were supposedly channelled through her by the "Masters of Wisdom," Tibetan `holy men`, which any Christian, Jew or Muslim should recognise as being synonymous with demons.

    In her book, `The Secret Doctrine` Blavatsky wrote, "Lucifer represents life, thought, progress, civilisation, liberty, independence. Lucifer is the Logos, the Serpent, the Saviour" and "It is Lucifer who is the God of our planet and the only God", and she continues, "The celestial Virgin which thus becomes the Mother of Gods and Devils at one and the same time, for she is the ever loving beneficent deity, but in antiquity and reality, Lucifer or Luciferius is the name. Lucifer is the divine and terrestrial light, the Holy Ghost and Satan at one and the same time".

    When Blavatsky died in 1891, Annie Besant, a militant feminist, co mason, and a member of the Fabian Socialist Society of England took over the reigns of leadership. As a close friend of George Bernard Shaw, H.G. Wells, and other leading Fabians, she was in an excellent position to disseminate theosophical ideas in some very influential circles. She took part in revolutionary street riots and wrote numerous occultic works to complement those of Blavatsky.

    After Besant, came Alice Bailey and her husband, Foster Bailey, a 32nd Degree Freemason. Having assumed the leadership of the Theosophical Society together, they formulated and built the foundations of what we now refer to as the New Age Movement. They made no effort to conceal their demonic sympathies, and created the `Lucifer Publishing Company`, along with the theosophical periodical `Lucifer`.Acknowledging that the Christian world at that time, had not been sufficiently undermined for their open preference for the Satanic religion, they renamed their project the `Lucis Publishing Company`. In 1922, they set up `Lucis Trust`, which continues to serve as the umbrella organization for a multitude of One World Government/New Age/Occult sects,cults, organizations and programs that are the main players in the emerging new world religion. These include the Arcane School, World Goodwill, Triangles, Lucis Publishing, Lucis Productions, Lucis Trust Libraries, and the New Group of World Servers. The `Plan` as revealed by her `Ascended Master` Djwhal Khul, is documented in her twenty four books, which she says were channelled through her by Khul whilst she was in a trance state.

    This `Plan`, was to usher in the "Harmonic Convergence," also known as the Omega, Mind Convergence, Fusion or Turning Point, which can occur only when nations put aside their differences in a "New World Order" of global unity. When world government and religion are finally realized, the New Age, or the Age of Aquarius, will have dawned. Only then will the Avatar appear, and the implementation of the New World Order fully begin. This "Christ" is also known as Lord Maitraya (see below), said to be awaited also by Jews, Moslems, Buddhists, and Hindus, though he is known by these believers respectively as the Messiah, Imam Mahdi, the fifth Buddha, or Krishna.

    Bailey makes it very clear that there is to also be a world religion: "The spirit has gone out of the old faiths and the true spiritual light is transferring itself into a new form which will manifest on earth eventually as the new world religion. ...Judaism is old, obsolete and separative and has no true message for the spiritually-minded which cannot be better given by the new faiths...the Christian faith also has served its purpose; its Founder seeks to bring a new Gospel and a new message that will enlighten all men everywhere".

    In his book `Terrorism & The Illuminati`, Canadian author, David Livingstone's own investigations revealed that the Lucis Trust is run through an international board of trustees, whose membership is said to have included: John D. Rockefeller, Norman Cousins, Robert S. McNamara, Thomas Watson, Jr. of IBM, and former U.S. Ambassador to Moscow, Henry Clauson, a Grand Commander of the Supreme Council, 33rd Degree, Southern District Scottish Rite, and Henry Kissinger, thus tying Bailey's organization into the various Round Table groups, including the CFR, the Bilderberger group, and the Trilateral Commission.

    When one examines and researches the claims of the New Age Movement, it is all too easy to be sceptical and dismissive, but those leading the way forward in this modern day version of what is in truth `Mystery Babylon` renewed, are working hand in glove with the great and the powerful. Some of the most wealthy and influential men and women on our planet are openly identifying themselves with the New Age. From Bankers, Industrialists, Politicians, Celebrities, it seems everyone is going `New Age` and they are bringing huge swathes of the population along with them. This `spiritual awakening` may be only one aspect of the Illuminati's goal towards One World Government, but it is a major one and may in time prove to be the core element in their plan.

    It would be foolhardy indeed to ignore the growing influence of the New Age, Occult, Satanist, Wicca, and Hedonist phenomena manifesting themselves all around us, without acknowledging that if these trends persist, the day will not be too far off when these forces will be able to make good on their aims.

    As G. K. Chesterton once observed, "If man will not believe in God, the danger is not that he will believe in nothing, but that he will believe in anything."

    `The Christ Is Now Here`! On April 25, 1982, millions of people across the world read the above headline in their daily newspapers, and that, "Throughout history, humanity's evolution has been guided by a group of enlightened men, the Masters of Wisdom, a Spiritual Hierarchy at the center of which stands the World Teacher, Lord Maitreya, known by Christians as the Christ."

    We were told "The Christ" was at that that very time living in the world and would within two months reveal his identity to all mankind. At the same time, the British Theosophist Benjamin Creme commenced a worldwide speaking tour and announced himself spokesman for "the Christ." In numerous interviews and speeches, he explained that it was not Jesus Christ he was acting on behalf of, but the "Master of Wisdom," of whom Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and others are disciples. Creme's messianic campaign was coordinated by his New Age religious organization, the Tara Center, from its offices in Los Angeles, New York, and London. As Creme's "Lord Maitreya` failed to appear, one would have expected that he and his `Christ, along with all his euphoric Aquarian propaganda would have become completely discredited and irrelevant. But we do not live in an age of reason. Mr Creme is still revered as a leading light of the vast New Age network, and his arcane gospel can be found around the world at UN conferences and programs where the Illuminati Elite of the Club of Rome, Aspen Institute, Council on Foreign Relations, World Federalists, World Bank, etc. consort with New Agers of every imaginable kind.

    The United Nations And The New World Religion. "The underlying philosophy upon which the Robert Muller School is based will be found in the teaching set forth in the books of Alice Bailey as channeled through her by the Demon Tibetan teacher, Djwhal Khul". Robert Muller (Former UN Assistant Secretary General)

    Many critics of the United Nations have described it as a modern day `Tower of Babel`. Most were referring to man's act of spiritual arrogance that the book of Genesis tells us earned God's displeasure. To support such an unflattering characterisation today, one might draw attention to the confusing and combustible assortment of tongues, cultures, ideologies, and politics for which the "house of peace" has become justly infamous. The UN, along with its programs and policies, is ever more worthy of comparison to the Tower of Babel, as rampant idolatry and militant paganism thoroughly permeate the organization.

    The UN is gradually becoming the center of a New World Religion, a strange and evil convergence of New Age mysticism, pantheism, aboriginal animism, atheism, communism, socialism, Luciferian occultism, apostate Christianity, Islam, Taoism, Buddhism, and Hinduism. The followers and disciples of this new faith include Crystal Worshipers, Astrologers, Radical Feminists, Environmentalists, Cabalists, Humanists, Eastern Mystics, Pop Psychologists, and "liberal" clergymen whom one would normally tend to associate with the counterculture of the 1960s. But today's `worshipers` in this `New Age Movement` are just as likely to be scientists, diplomats, corporate presidents, heads of state, international bankers, and leaders of mainstream Christian churches.

    The Rio Earth Summit. "Thus, the environmental movement, while helping to advance the cause of the oil industry, is an extension of the Aquarian conspiracy, incepted by Alice Bailey, designed ultimately to foster the acceptance a one-world-religion, based on the occult, or the New Age, as it is called". David Livingstone.

    In his book `Global Tyranny Step By Step`, William F Jasper writes " At the June 1992 UN Earth Summit in Brazil, the official UN Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED) together with the Global Forum "Peoples Summit" showcased a blending of pagan aboriginal rites with an ecumenical collective of `mystical` and spiritual tenets from East and West to bring into being an unintelligible form of what was called a `Universal Faith`.

    Across the globe, the world media referred to the Rio Declaration and the 800-page blueprint for government action titled Agenda 21 as "sacred" texts. Al Gore, the leader of the U.S. Senate delegation, called for a new spiritual relationship between man and earth. Actress Shirley MacLaine was in attendance in order to add her own strange brand of psychic spirituality to the proceedings. Those Ministers from the World Council of Churches present, were there because of their affinity to the ecumenical "spirit" that uses the Hegelian Dialectic to combine a form of Christianity as thesis, with a pagan spiritualism as antithesis, resulting in a synthesis very akin to the Babylonian Mystery Religions. Another group at the summit, The Union for Natural Environment Protection, an environmental association based in Sao Leopoldo, Brazil, surprisingly declared the following about the true purpose of the W.C. of C's involvement:

    "The environmental movement is being used as a cover to promote a return to the creed of the Ancient Mysteries, in the form of the worship of mother-nature, a pagan notion that equates the goddess with earth, known among the ancient Greeks as Gaia. Originally, she is the Babylonian Ishtar, known to the Bible as Astarte, or the Egyptian Isis. This pantheistic idea has its origins in ancient paganism, and is central to the Kabbalah and all Western occult tradition, including Freemasonry and the Illuminati. Plato wrote: "We shall affirm that the cosmos, more than anything else, resembles most closely that living Creature of which all other living creatures, severally or genetically, are portion; a living creature which is fairest of all and in ways most perfect." Known as Anima Mundi, the "Soul of the World", it is related to the concept of the Neoplatonists, the Logos, or the Word, also known as the "Son of God", or the ancient dying God"

    It should be apparent to the reader that a `nexus` has been formed, connecting the major players in the push towards the One World Dictatorship, with the United Nations, The New Age Movement, and the `Greens` all interlocking at the top, with the `hidden hand` of the Illuminati pulling the strings in the background as the driving force moving us all inexorably towards the New World Order.

    The Illuminaries. Canadian Multi Millionaire Industrialist Maurice Strong , a former trustee of the Aspen Institute for Humanistic Studies and a member of the advisory council of Planetary Citizens, is a major force within the Environmental and New Age Movements. He sits on the board of directors and serves as director of finance of the Lindisfarne Center, which is located in the Episcopal Cathedral of St. John the Divine in New York, and its operation all facilitated by grants from the Lilly Endowment, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, and the Rockefeller Foundation.
    The Institute numbers among its faculty members the `Eco-Radical` Amory Lovins and Luciferian Adept and New Age author David Spangler. We can gain some appreciation as to what is being taught at this Rockerfeller funded institute by reading Mr. Spangler's books, such as `Reflections on the Christ`, wherein he writes:

    "Lucifer, like Christ, stands at the door of man's consciousness and knocks. If man says, go away because I do not like what you represent, I am afraid of you, Lucifer will play tricks on that fellow. If man says, "Come in, and I will give to you the treat of my love and understanding and I will uplift you in the light and presence of the Christ, my outflow," then Lucifer becomes something else again. He becomes the being who carries that great treat, the ultimate treat, the light of wisdom. The reason man has come to fear Lucifer is not so much that he represents evil as because he represents experience which causes us to grow and to move beyond the levels where we have been.... Lucifer is literally the angel of experience."

    Spangler, Muller, Strong, and a host of other `names`, such as Queen Juliana of the Netherlands, Sir Edmund Hillary, Peter Ustinov, Kurt Vonnegut, Leonard Bernstein, Isaac Asimov, and Pete Seeger, are all listed as being original endorsers of the world-government-promoting Planetary Citizens. Founded by New Age luminary and former UN consultant Donald Keys, and presided over for many years by the lateNorman Cousins (CFR), the Planetary Citizens Organization has brought together and made very good use of the prestige of many leading world figures to support expansion of UN power and it's institutions.Keys, a self confessed disciple of Alice Bailey, refers to the United Nations as "the nexus of emerging planetary values" and expresses the hope that it will establish a "planetary management system.".(New Age Speak for World Government).

    Another original endorser of Planetary Citizens was Aurelio Peccei, the founder of the Club of Rome, which although initially recognised for its role in launching "no growth" environmentalism in the 1970s, has `waxed` increasingly "spiritual" in more recent years. Their quest for spiritual `wisdom` includes slavish adherence to the Blavatsky mandate dictating that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are either excluded or denigrated.

    One of the primary avenues through which this lean toward oriental spiritualism has been spread is the Temple of Understanding, located at the same Cathedral of St. John the Divine that houses the Lindisfarne Luciferians. Begun in the early 1960s as the "spiritual counterpart of the United Nations," its founding sponsors included the following odd assortment of Establishment Insiders, socialists, humanists, communist fronts, religious figures, and entertainment celebrities:

    John D. Rockefeller IV
    then-Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara
    Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger
    IBM president Thomas J. Watson
    Socialist Party leader Norman Thomas
    Eleanor Roosevelt
    Time-Life president James A. Linen
    homosexual author Christopher Isherwood
    columnist Max Lerner
    entertainer Jack Benny

    With people such as the these in the vanguard, the U N's pagan spiritualism will grow ever more overt and assertive. The UN report entitled `The New International Economic Order A Spiritual Imperative` proclaims; "Today a new understanding of spirituality is emerging which recognizes that all efforts to uplift humanity are spiritual in nature. Alice Bailey said, "That is spiritual which lies beyond the point of present achievement...." ... Given this new understanding of spirituality, the work of the United Nations can be ... seen within the entire evolutionary unfoldment of humanity. The work of the U.N. is indeed spiritual and holds profound import for the future of civilization."

    The Pantheistic Smokescreen. "When you worship the sun, moon, stars, a statue, or even yourself, Lucifer is leading you astray. You are not to worship things that were created; instead you are to worship the creator. To worship anything other than the creator is giving heed to Lucifer". Fritz Springmeier `Be Wise As Serpents`.

    Since "God" in the pantheistic metaphysical system is not the almighty God of the Bible, but an impersonal, immanent force that occupies all things, then all things; the universe itself, every rock, every tree, everything, every man, every woman are "God." In this pagan world view, man is not a special creation of the one, true God, to whom, ultimately, he is answerable to. Nor is he endowed by his Creator with intrinsic, inalienable rights and duties. Thus pantheism "functions as an effective device in the undermining of a God-centered religion by transforming religion into a man-centered belief system, and thereby giving a religious sanction to the doctrines and programs of political collectivism. Pantheism can be also be utilised as a step towards bringing humanity from theism to atheistic materialism. In religion, pantheism is most often expressed as Naturalism; the doctrine that religious truth is derived from nature, not revelation.

    The June 1941 issue of the occult journal `Rosicrucian Digest` predicted that "The multiplicity of social states, countries, or nations will cease to be." That nations would be superseded by "The One United World State." The Rosicrucian's were correct in concluding that the `mystical-pantheism` they advocated would, if generally accepted, lead to a collectivist world state. And there are far too few people in the world today who understand the direct cause-and-effect relationship between the two. Father Clarence Kelly, a noted authority on occult deception writes; "Pantheism is a favorite doctrine of collectivists, because it offers a concept of man which, on religious grounds, subordinates the individual to the collective."

    Hitler And The Vril. It was Neo-Paganism that helped create the conditions which paved the way for the totalitarian collectivism of the Third Reich. The Nazi high priesthood - Hitler, Himmler, Rahn, Rosenberg, Hess, Feder, Sebot, et al. were all ardent theosophists, and their esoteric societies (the Thule, Vril, Seekers of the Grail) were steeped in the same occultism and pantheism so prevalent in today's New Age and environmental movements.

    There is a wealth of evidence that Hitler considered himself `chosen` and he is on record as having said; "I have seen the `New Man` and he is indeed terrible". It is evident that Hitler was deeply involved in the occult and that he believed that his murderous reign of terror was a `divine` mission on behalf of what he termed the `Ancient Aryan Masters`. Dietrich Eckart, a master Adept of the Thule Society and Hitlers' occult mentor, wrote, "Hitler will dance, but it is I who will call the tune! I have initiated him into the Secret Doctrine, opened his centers of vision and given him means to communicate with the powers".

    In the final chapter of his book, `The Twisted Cross`, Joseph Carr draws frightening parallels between Nazism and the New Age Movement; "One cannot argue against the claim that the Nazi world view and major elements of the New Age Movement are identical. They should be, after all for they both grew out of the same occult root: Theosophy. Their respective cosmogony, cosmology and philosophies are identical".

    The New Age and the One World Government conspiracy are intrinsic and inseparable.. Although all the various sects and cults which make up `Pantheism` may appear diverse and separate, all the basic elements are the same for the various gnostic hierarchical religions, they just have a different focus. They operate off the same principles and cooperate and function together. What are ostensibly separate and independent religious groups are actually at the very top working together and run by the same cabal in the service of the same master.

    In his epic work on the One World Religion, `Be Wise As Serpents` Fritz Springmeier answers the question most of us have asked; "Do the leaders of the cults know what is going on? In authoritative fashion, Mr Springmeier answers, "Yes, they have been orally, emphasis on that word orally told exactly what is happening. The leaders of the New Age, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Latter Day Saints church know what they are up to, and what their roles are in creating a one-world government".

    The Solar Logos. Throughout the Ancient World, the Sun was worshipped in many guises as God. In Babylon it was Nimrod, in Egypt- Osiris, the Canaanites worshipped Baal and in Greece, it was Apollo. The New Age Sun God is called the `Solar Logos` or `The Word` thereby blasphemously counterfeiting the Biblical Jesus Christ. In her book, `Rays and Initiations`, Alice Bailey reveals this Solar Logos as Lucifer himself. Today, as in millenia past, the Sun God is being worshipped by the New Age as divine.

    David Spangler, refers to the Sun God in these terms: "The light that reveals to us the path to the New Age `Christ` comes from Lucifer. He is the light giver. It is his light that heralds for man the dawn of a greater consciousness. The true light of this great being can only be recognised when one's own eyes see with the light of the inner sun. It is an invitation into the New Age " The ancient doctrine of the Sun God or Solar Logos melds itself easily with Pantheism, which as we have seen is at the moment a core dogma of the New Age. By denying the existence of a personal God, whilst insisting that the universe itself is God, New Agers declare that as man is part of the universe, man is also God. The Luciferian master plan cannot succeed unless people accept that there is no God who loves and cares for them. Therefore, accepting that the Moon, the Stars, the Galaxies are all Gods in themselves, the New Age Sun God or Solar Logos as humanity's master becomes a required tenet of belief and we can establish that throughout man's history, all `Sun God's have been nothing more than guises for the great deceiver, Lucifer.

    Witches believe that Lucifer is the God of the Sun, and the Sun God is also known as the `Horned God` (Lucifer is also known as the "Angel of Light). Many of the Witch's holy days revolve around the Sun such as the Yule. A large part of their belief system is the concept of the Sun weakening and the world dying, then on the Winter Solstice the Sun God Lucifer is reborn and warms the Earth. To the Ancient Latin people's, Lucifer was the Sun God, father of Aradia and the brother and lover of Diana.

    To appreciate how this adversary of God has been able to clandestinely insinuate himself into our lives, we only have to look all around at the plethora of pagan sun symbolism which now proliferate throughout society. One example of this can be found in the world of female bodybuilding, where each year, a trophy shaped in a design used to symbolize the worship of Lucifer is awarded at a major I.F.B.B. women's bodybuilding event. The meaning of this trophy is hidden from most everyone but a select few who are initiated. The trophy is in the form of an obelisk, which to those unfamiliar is a tapering, four-sided shaft that has a pyramidal top. The obelisk is a symbol that definitely has connections to Freemasonry. The obelisk is important to Masons and has roots in ancient Egypt. It is the symbol of a god worshipped by believers involved in the ancient mysteries. The obelisk represents the Sun God Lucifer. The sun is also a major Masonic symbol. Albert Pike, who we deal with below wrote: "The sun is the ancient symbol of the life-giving and generative power of the Deity."

    Ralph Epperson, a historian and lecturer on the subject writes: "The sun was a symbol of something that only the believers in the religion...understood. These believers, ...knew that the people would not accept their mystery religion, so they had to conceal it from them. So the task became one of creating a religion around a belief that they knew the people would accept. Their basic purpose was to create a popular religion as a cover for their secret worship. They would have to keep their beliefs from the people, and conceal their secret worship in hidden symbols." Epperson continues: "The obelisk stands for the very presence of the sun god! And the sun god is Lucifer!"

    The World Religion Exposed. "The Gnostic religions are often called pagan. This pagan worship is often the exoteric cover that the first levels are initiated into. The highest level is often the real esoteric worship, and often involves direct Luciferian or Satanic worship. In other words, the Sun worship of the Masons and other groups is a fig leaf for the worship by the highest levels of the Divine Serpent Satan". Fritz Springmeier `Be Wise As Serpents `.

    "According to Alice Bailey, the Masonic movement will be the religion of the New System. Benjamin Creme, also believes Freemasonry will be the religion of the New Age. Lola Davis, another New Age leader, also sees Freemasonry as the New Age Religion" (Texe Marrs: Dark Secrets of the New Age).

    Alice Bailey wrote in 1957, "The Masonic movement... is the custodian of the law; it is the home of the Mysteries and the seat of initiation. It holds in its symbolism the ritual of Deity, and the way of salvation is pictorially preserved in its work. It is a far more occult organization than can be realised, and is intended to be the training school for the coming advanced occultists. In its ceremonials lie hid the wielding of the forces connected with the growth and life of the kingdoms of nature and the unfoldment of the divine aspects in man."

    "When the new universal religion has sway and the nature of esotericism is understood-will be the utilisation of the banded esoteric organisms, the Masonic organism and the Church organism as initiating centres. These three groups converge as their inner sanctuaries are approached. There is no dissociation between the One Universal Church, the sacred inner Lodge of all true Masons, and the inner-most circles of esoteric societies." (Taken from `Be Wise As Serpents by Fritz Springmeier).

    Has Freemasonry been underestimated as a world religion? At least one Masonic author writing to Masons felt that Masonic religious power had been underestimated. He writes,"In the past Masonry has been condemned as a shallow substitute for religion. This the Masonic body has always denied but in fact the new age revitalised Masonry will be a paralleling evolutionary way of man's approach to God, and Masonry and religion will gladly cooperate." --The Spirit of Masonry, p. 129

    Albert Pike (December 29, 1809 ­April 2, 1891). Albert Pike was a Luciferian who confessed Lucifer as his own God see (below quote). He was the former Sovereign General of The Supreme Council Of Grand Sovereign Inspectors, General of the 33rd Degree of The Scottish Rite. There is also compelling evidence that he founded the Ku Klux Klan.. Pike can be justifiably regarded as the most influential Freemason who ever lived. During the American Civil War, he was a confederate general who is said to have committed the most heinous atrocities of the war, yet his tomb is located just thirteen blocks from the Capitol Building in Washington DC. He was a high ranking member of the Illuminati who is still revered by the New World Order Cabal.

    In his book `Morals and Dogma`, Pike confirmed for posterity that the God of the Illuminati and the New World Order is Lucifer. He wrote; "The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. . . Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay (Jesus) is also God. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two Gods: darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive. "

    Pike asserted boldly and unequivocally in his book that Freemasonry is identical to the ancient mysteries, which clearly means that all their teachings in all their books are precisely the same as the Ancient, Pagan, Satanic Mysteries! Pike continues in Morals and Dogma " The true and pure philosophic religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay (Jesus); but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of darkness and evil."

    Is Freemasonry The Worship Of Lucifer? There has been extensive debate as to whom the true god of Freemasonry really is. Below, I have listed some quotes from Masonic Authorities which will help clarify this piece of the puzzle. It should be understood that most Blue Degree Masons are not in thrall to Lucifer, but higher level `initiates` must participate in rituals which involve drinking from skulls whilst kneeling prostrate at a black alter adorned with serpents.

    We should furthermore take pains to know who Lucifer really is. The King James Bible records his fall from heaven following his rebellion against God thus: "How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are thou cut down to the ground which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high, yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit". Isaiah 14:12-15.

    The Scriptures name Lucifer as "That old serpent called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world". Revelation 12:9.

    Deception in Freemasonry is witnessed time and again as one goes ever deeper into it's darkness. Albert Pike in his `Morals and Dogma writes," Masonry like all the religions, all the mysteries, conceals it's secret from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of it's symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead. The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally mislead by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended he shall imagine he understands them".

    Quotes affirming Lucifer as the God of Fremasonry:

    "First conjuration address to Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of rebellious spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode in what ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in thy name oh mighty living god, to appear without noise". The Book Of Black Magic by Arthur Edward Waite 33rd Degree Mason.

    "I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince Of Demons, that each year, I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as it may please him, and in return, Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfill my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him". Signed in blood, Manly Palmer Hall 33rd Degree Freemason from his book `The Secret Teaching Of All Ages`.

    "When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the Mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply this energy". Manly Palmer Hall 33rd Degree `The Lost Keys Of Freemasonry`.

    " That which we must say to a crowd is; We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees. The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the High degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine". Albert Pike 33 rd Degree.

    " Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the light, and with it's splendours intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" Albert Pike 33rd Degree.

    Freemasonry is truly the worship of Lucifer. Once this is understood, it becomes clear as to why they have been so anxious all these centuries to keep the lid of secrecy tightly screwed down, for if people really understood that Masonry is a worship of Lucifer, no one would join, and the citizens of most communities would rise up as one to demand that the organization be completely outlawed. Thus, you have secrets within secrets , wheels within wheels, just as the above quotes confirm.

    The Light Bearer Returns. Many believe that the New Age Movement is little more than a collection of old Hippies, Feminists and `wannabe` mystics chanting and praying to who knows what or why. But that is so far from the reality of what is a dangerous and desperate situation, as the Illuminati and their co conspirators in the New Age, through use of all the weapons of media control and information available to them, drive their New World Order project to it's logical conclusion, whilst we the people sleep walk into their `Aquarian` Dictatorship.

    In his book `Terrorism And The Illuminati`, the Canadian author David Livingstone writes: "The Illuminati claim to be descended of Fallen Angels, who taught them the "Ancient Wisdom", also known as the Kabbalah, which they have been preserving throughout the centuries. These Fallen Angels are referred to in the Bible, Book of Genesis, as the Nephilim, or "Sons of God", and were said to have descended to earth and intermarried with human beings. Christian interpretations struggle with the passage, choosing to translate the term into "mighty men". However, apocryphal Jewish texts explain that they were the devil and his legions, who were cast out of Heaven, and took wives from the female descendants of Cain. They produced a race known as the Anakim".

    It is a well researched hypothesis that it is these `Anakim` or rather their descendent's who now occupy all the positions of real power in our world. Whether they are truly the children of the Nephilim is irrelevant so long as they themselves believe that it is, and use this assumed `divine` right to rule in order to justify the increasing oppression, control and terror being enacted on all our lives.

    Conclusion: The Luciferian New Age of Aquarius is here right now and mankind has joined in rebellion against it's creator. We are giving to people, who now publicly exclaim their worship of God and man's greatest and original adversary, free reign to lead us into hell on earth in the shape of a diabolical One World tyrannical state, and the United Nations is the international temple at which humanity, through it's political and religious leaders pays homage to him, the Light Bearer - Lucifer.

    "And he shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every God, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished; for that which is determined shall be done (Dan. 11:36).

    Reference and Further Reading. Robert Muller
    Wanda Marrs : New Age Lies To Women p34
    ( Wicca Wicca
    Terrorism & The Illuminati by David Livingstone
    666 Illuminati by William Josiah Sutton
    Be Wise As Serpents by Fritz Springmeier.
    Global Tyranny Step By Step by William F Jasper.
    Any of the Books on the New Age by Texe and Wanda Marrs.
    The Holy Scriptures New English Bible and King James Version.
    The Hidden Secrets Of The Rainbow by Constance E. Cumbey.

    Where should the headquarters of a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka The United States of the Solar System be located? What type of building should it be? Should the USSS be completely electronic - with no building at all? I tend to think that it should be Click and Mortar. This is just intended to stimulate thought and conversation. A lot of people fear the 'Antichrist and the Mark of the Beast'. Would this concept play into the hands of the Devil? Might I be deceived - at this point - or in the future? Anything is possible - and this is a distinct possibility. Extreme caution should be exercised when thinking about this subject. The road is narrow - and the ditches are deep. But hey! Let's have some fun! St. Mary's Cathedral is the preliminary building of interest. What would Monsignor Bowe say? Here is a landing UFO view of the hypothetical headquarters of The United States of the Solar System. This is a test. This is only a test. But the Roman Catholics probably don't appreciate this sort of experiment. I still think this would be a really cool place for We the People of the Solar System to make the really important decisions which affect all of us. Have any of you thought about this? This is just a visual aid to help us think about Solar System Governance. This building doesn't really look like a church - does it? I think it looks "space-age". I knew a couple of Roman Catholics who referred to this building as a 'washing-machine agitator'! True story. Can you imagine seeing a UFO parked next to this structure? It's kinda fun to think about - isn't it?! The second image below might be the view from a UFO (filled with Plutocrats from Pluto) which has just landed (note the Venusian Delegation):

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    Here is one perspective of what the future holds: Sherry Shriner presents an extreme view - even when just considering alien research and ufology. I keep my eye and ear on her shows and websites - but I don't parrot what she believes and presents - and I have never used orgone or methamphetamines. I'm not that kind of guy. I try to sample a wide variety of perspectives - while following none of them. I try to remain detached and aloof. If Sherry is right - could I be making a big mistake regarding what I presented in the previous post? Once again - I don't really know what is going on in this world, solar system, galaxy, or universe - so I just keep stumbling around in the dark. Please consider as many options as possible before arriving at any conclusions. I continue to treat most of this stuff as science fiction - but reality could be stranger than fiction.

    One more time - this thread is all about getting YOU to think about Solar System Governance. CONSIDER EVERY CONCEIVABLE POSSIBILITY. I'm just scratching the surface with this (and other) threads. I am passively pushing an editorial slant in this thread - as an experiment. If one does not stand for something - they end up falling for anything. So, I am attempting to work outward from the six words "Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System". I would be pleased if people, throughout the solar system, incorporated these words into their particular situations - in their own time, and in their own way. This thread should be used as a mental and spiritual gymnasium. Go through it a couple of times - and ARRIVE AT YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS. Don't be herded or spoon-fed by anyone - mainstream or alternative. THINK FOR YOURSELF. But you regulars already know this. I'm printing this mostly for the visitors (and spies) to this site. I'm teetering between sanity and insanity - heaven and hell - so don't follow me! In five years - most people might be onboard with this thread - but I might be fighting it by then!! Namaste.

    Thank-you for the video, Mercuriel - and I'll be looking forward to your post on Tuesday. I previously watched this video - and it is quite good. It should be viewed repeatedly. I have an SDA background - but I am no longer a member. However - 'The Great Controversy' by Ellen White - should be carefully studied. 'The Gods of Eden' by William Bramley is a must-read regarding the esoteric. The more I research - the less I seem to know - but I will keep trying. It is important to study history - lest we keep repeating the absurdities and atrocities. But I really wish to focus on the idealistic views regarding contemporary solar system governance - hence this thread. I just wish to hijack the historical and contemporary madness - and create a perfected humanity and a perfected solar system. Studying the United Nations, Washington D.C., the City of London, the Vatican, and the Secret Government - is extremely important. I presently think these power centers are a mixture of good and evil. I wish to learn from history - engage in idealistic hypothesizing - and then help to make things better. I realize that this is going to be very problematic and messy. I truly don't hate anyone - but I do wish for everything to improve significantly. This world has been a horrible mess for a very long time. I don't wish to cut anyone loose - or cut anyone out. This thread is intended to lift EVERYONE up. Hope springs eternal. I really don't wish to imitate a pig - and just root around in the dirt and mud. I'd really like to spend most of my time on idealistic flights of fantasy! Can't we just all get along??

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    I'd really like to know the complete history of all types of technology, governments, religions, etc. The history of genetic hybridization especially interests me. I feel somewhat close to learning what actually happened - yet I feel as though I might never find out the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I'd really like to know the true state of affairs just prior to the Luciferian Rebellion and War in Heaven. What were the motivating factors? How can we properly proceed as a civilization - if we don't know our true history? It seems as if we have been dumbed-down and held-down for thousands or even millions of years. This seems to be ongoing. What was the Original Sin? What really went wrong? Why is there a Continuing Sin? How will this madness be properly resolved? By keeping everyone in the dark? Is it possible that Lucifer stole all manner of technology (Fire from the Gods?) - including genetic hybridization - and got a multitude of souls (Fallen Angels?) to go along with him/her in this matter? Did an extensive technology and hybridization program commence in secrecy - while keeping humanity (as we know humanity to be) completely in the dark regarding all of this? Is the rest of the universe unable to do anything about this because we are being held hostage - and used as human shields? Or - are we all a party to the madness - whether we remember agreeing to the rebellion, or not? Someone needs to start telling the truth - with absolutely no bull$h!t. It seems to me that we need some sort of a changing of the guard in this solar system - or some sort of a solar system governmental change. I have expressed certain preferences - but I don't know the whole story, or what is really going on - so take everything I have said, with a boatload of salt. I certainly hope that those who are in the top positions in this solar system - really know what the hell they are doing - and that they are doing that which is in the very best interest of the human race. Of course, I wish for things to work out well for all races - but I don't have a clue regarding what any other races are really like. I'm just very tired of what seems to be an endless stream of bull$h!t. I want this to stop NOW.

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    What would an optimal Solar System Administrator be like? Is there one presently? Are they a good one? Has Lucifer been the Solar System Administrator (SSA) for a very long time? Are they doing this presently? Are the advanced weapons in the best of hands - or the worst of hands? Should an SSA have absolute power? If not - how many people should they share the power with? If there are too few at the top - there is an increased possibility of corruption, or of someone going rogue. If there are too many at the top - there is an increased possibility of confusion, and lack of response-ability. I have pointed to the possibility of a 10,000 member Solar System Government - but should there be a Security Council with say 100 members - who would bear the ultimate responsibility for the really nasty weaponry? My preference would be no nasty weaponry whatsoever - but I don't know how hostile and dangerous this universe really is. I continue to fly blind, barefoot, and stupid. If there is a switch from the present Secret Government to a more open Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System - should ALL of the existing top-level Powers That Be - be retained - regardless of past misdeeds? Might this be necessary to provide continuity and expertease? I frankly think there should be some bad@$$ heavyweight Mason/Nazi/Jesuit/Luciferian/Illuminati types (under very close watch) to guide a transition - and to possibly stay on for an extended period - especially if the galactic environment is hostile and uncertain. I tend to be very idealistic - but I'm not exactly a Mason/Nazi/Jesuit/Luciferian/Illuminati B@D@$$ - if you know what I mean. There is a time and a place for everyone and everything. Some might find what I just said to be highly contradictory and even upsetting - and I'm not really sure myself. Tell me what you think. Could Lucifer ever become Christ-like? I think this might be a distinct possibility - but I don't really know. What would Raven say? I would think that an SSA should be very, very knowledgeable - yet very low-key. I also think they should not have a lot of power - and that they should simply observe, ask questions, and occasionally make recommendations - but that the final authority should reside elsewhere - to avoid the corruption and mindgames connected with absolute power. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about - but it's a bit interesting to think about - don't you think? I continue to think that We the People of the Solar System need to be a lot more informed and responsible. We shouldn't just leave everything up to the B@D@$$ DUDES. I continue to be alarmed at the seeming lack of interest in this extremely important topic. Again - I might be completely wrong about everything connected with SSG - but where are the alternatives, and the vigorous discussion? But - I guess this is job security for the B@D@$$ DUDES...

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    I'm rewatching 'Star Wars III - Revenge of the Sith' - and it contains many lessons relevant to The United States of the Solar System. "So this is how liberty dies - with thunderous applause." Consider rewatching it yourselves. May the Force Be With You. You know - I would like to have a Secret Government type of individual set me straight - regarding how the Solar System should be run. It would probably be a very painful and humiliating experience - but I would welcome it, just the same. I welcomed getting cussed-out by Raven - because at least someone felt strongly about the issues involved - and about my ignorance and stupidity. I'll take interest wherever I can get it - regardless of whether it is positive or negative. This pursuit is really a strange mixture of politics, religion, psychology, ethics, law, science-fiction, etc. The reality of Solar System Governance might actually be quite boring - most of the time. It might be a monumental disappointment to rise to the top - all the way to the Darkside of the Moon - and then not like the view - in more ways than one. This little tempest in a teapot, on this thread, might actually be more exciting - most of the time. I still think it's fun to think about actual situations and scenarios which might play out at USSS Headquarters. I live such a dull, boring, and non-productive life - that I have to get my jollies wherever I can. This thread is one of those places. Won't someone join me in my descent into madness?
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    magamud wrote:Excellent analysis once again Oxy. Your humility and openness to this exploration is commendable.

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    The Queens Museum of Art – New York City Building

    One of the proudest periods in the history of the New York City Building was that from 1946 to 1950 when it housed the General Assembly of the newly formed United Nations. Until the site of the UN’s current home in Manhattan became available, Flushing Meadows Corona Park was being considered as the organization’s future permanent Headquarters site. During the early post-war years almost every world leader spent time in the New York City Building and many important decisions, including the partition of Palestine and the creation of UNICEF, were made here.

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    World of Tomorrow
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    Above: Baghdad (l) and Nashville (r) Osirian Resurrection Complexes. Check the mega-Speakers at frame-bottom of the Nashville half of the photo, the “Bicentennial Mall.” See my “Ragna Rok and Man Son Role” for more, or Henry’s relevant piece.

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    Thank-you magamud. I wonder what the world might be like today, if, in 1939, instead of beginning the horrors of World War II, Germany had helped establish the State of Israel (without screwing the Palestinians or any branch of Judaism) -- a Solar System United Nations had been established in Munich, Germany -- Germany had peacefully united Europe in a European Union -- and Gizeh Intelligence had come out of the closet and shared its wisdom with the Whole World. I know there are probably dozens of reasons why all of the above couldn't have happened -- but it's still fun to think about. BTW -- did I meet someone of note last night -- who was very beautiful and charming -- and who had just finished working 36 hours?? Or, was the person of note, someone who had just been to Karaoke -- or the JW who came to my house -- or the stranger who looked in my window?? I never know who I'm dealing with -- because of various physicality technologies. A particular soul might be able to animate just about any form of physicality. I frankly don't trust anyone these days -- even those who I've known for a long time -- including myself. Would or should there be Academic Freedom in a United States of the Solar System?? I still like the idea of Absolute Access and Absolutely Zero Power for Quantum Mag-Lev Diplomacy. Philospher-Observers Unite -- While Avoiding Alien Quantum Entanglements!! These are interesting word-combinations to contemplate!!

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    Mr. Smith Goes to Mars

    Posts : 11441
    Join date : 2010-09-28
    Location : The Matrix

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Empty Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:08 am

    magamud wrote:God Bless America, First Radio performance, Armistice Day

    "This is the original FIRST broadcast radio performance of God Bless America by Irving Berlin as introduced by Kate Smith on November 10, 1938."

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    Thank-you magamud. Today, I've been watching sci-fi, reading theology books, and reading the newspaper (mostly about the new pope). I somehow need to integrate the crazy-stuff into the normal-stuff. I have less and less of a desire to make a big-deal about what I've studied, experienced, and learned at the end of a thin-limb. I continue to feel as if I am being massively spiritually-oppressed 24/7 -- and I have NEVER done anything creepy or supernatural (other than talking to an Ancient Egyptian Deity for several months). I probably know too much -- even though I am a completely ignorant fool who wants a Room on the Moon! My recommendation to everyone (especially the uninitiated) is to study what I've posted (or similar material) -- and then do and say very little (if anything). Just get back to work, get laid, or something other than going nuts. But Siriusly, 95% of those who frequent this website probably know 95% more than I do about all of the crazy-stuff. What Would Hitler Say?? What if there were a church which were based upon nothing more than the Latin Mass, the 1928 Book of Common Prayer, and Sacred Classical Music?? What if there were a church which were based upon nothing more than a careful and ongoing analysis of the Roman Catholic Church -- historically and presently?? The possibilities are endless -- and should be considered endlessly. But I really get the feeling that the faithful do not wish to have anyone mess with how they pray -- and I can't say that I blame them. Tradition can be a good-thing -- but it can also be a prison. I have my biases -- but I do not wish to force them upon others. Namaste.

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    Check this out! Competition! We should welcome competition - right?! When something is our idea - we take more pride in it - don't we? This galactic constitution seems to be sort of a business venture. Is this a good idea? I've just been brainstorming openly on the internet - with no sense of ownership. Is this a good idea? At this point - I really feel like focusing on business - because I'm tired of being poor - and having no respect. I'm really at the bottom of the barrel- and I feel terrible. Once again - money talks and bs walks. Why should I continue making post after pointless post? What's the point? Why should I continue working hard to get myself into more and more trouble? How can everyone on Earth feel important? If one focuses upon galactic issues - they might have a nervous breakdown. If one focuses upon business - they might become a millionaire or billionaire - live in a waterfront mansion with 1,000 forrested acres - and have a really sexy spouse. Decisions, decisions. Everything seems to boil down to fame, fortune, power, and pleasure - but does the pursuit of these things provide us with an ideal solar system? But when one tries to make things better - they seem to be ignored and/or they end up on everyone's fecal-list. So - if anyone reads this - tell me what to do. My pursuit of Sol Governance has left me S.O.L.

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    The United States Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton verified the sovereignty of The Galactic Government and businesses organized under the Galactic Business Corporations Act of 2005 on Dec. 8, 2009. The signed document includes The Declaration of Galactic Independence, The Constitution of the Galactic Government and The Galactic Business Corporations Act of 2005. A copy of the signed document with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s verification [is] available at “I am pleased that the United States has recognized the Galactic Government and our works,” said Galactic Government President, Dennis Hope, “We have been working to provide equality for all both governmentally and economically. Having The United States of America as a partner is gratifying and humbling.” The citizens of the Galactic Government ratified the formation of the current pro tem and the structure of the full government in April of 2004 and diplomatic out-reach began shortly there after. “We have been in contact with several dozen countries around the world,” states Galactic Government Secretary of State Vincent Hamm, “and though interest in opening diplomatic relations with our government appears high, the diplomatic process can be slow. We are hopeful that, with the United States recognizing us, that other countries will be contacting us to solidify diplomatic ties.” The primary architect of the agreement, Attorney General Wes Faires says: “It is an honor to be part of the Galactic Government and to have been instrumental in validating all we stand for.” Negotiations are commencing with the United Nations. Anyone interested in dual citizenship with their current Earth country and The Galactic Government should visit and purchase property on one of the solar bodies listed there. The Galactic Government is a free and open government promoting governmental and economic equality and opportunity for all. For more information contact: Dr. Dennis Hope, President; 1329 US Highway 395 North, Suite 10-281; Gardnerville, NV 89410; +1.702.991.1232, US toll free 1-800-LUNAR-29; or Mr. Wes Faires, Attorney General; 885 Woodstock Road, Suite 430, Box 330; Roswell, GA 30075; +1.404.409.4468; or Dr. Vincent S. Hamm, Secretary of State; PO Box 1417; Golcen, CO 80402; +1.303.271.1288; Article from:

    Declaration of Galactic Independence
    While respecting the history of the United States of America on the planet Earth, we the property owners and soon to be dual citizens of both Celestial property and Earth countries, do appreciate the words and essence of the Declaration of Independence of 1776. There comes a time when all persons must break away from the constraints and misconceptions of the perceived good. Human history has shown the citizens on planet Earth when governments enact arbitrary laws that are ambiguous, self serving, and counter productive to certain unalienable rights that are among these: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness that tolerance of the governed is abandoned. We are entering an age of Universal knowledge replete with the dynamics of the human experience. Our Pioneering spirit has been awakened. We seek the satisfaction of not only owning celestial lands but also inhabiting, developing and nurturing them as well. In keeping with the traditions of governments as we see them through history we find boundless intervention to stop the fulfillment of all humans to exercise our rights to possession of these truly inalienable lands. When it comes to pass that provision of expected access to those lands is denied by the governments it becomes the responsibility of the citizens and property holders of those celestial bodies to take drastic actions. Conceptually we see the truth as being self-evident that all people are created equal. Governments’ actions do not seem consistent with this concept and so we are adapting accordingly. It is because of the actions of the governments on planet Earth that we the landlords of the celestial lands in the Solar System including all moons and planets as we know them and for the ones to be discovered excluding Earth, take the peaceful resolution to inform all governments on planet Earth that we have democratically achieved our resolve to become a free sovereignty. As a free sovereignty it is our desire to create a working relationship with the governments of planet Earth so foundations and mutual respect might be achieved early in our growth. If it were not for the decades of historic records showing the monumental steps made in support of human rights by the Earth governments we recognize that we would have little chance to succeed with our quest. It is because of the lessons learned from the Earth governments that we are capable of rational expectations that we will succeed in our bid for sovereignty. We, the Human Beings and celestial property owners on the planet Earth, do hereby declare our intention to become self ruling, so that we might venture forth to find a new combined destiny of self promotion and colonization. Read full declaration [Page 2, 3]

    Interesting clauses of note found within "The Constitution of the Galactic Government":

    Article. I. Section 1. All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the Galactic Government located within New Hope City, Sea of Tranquility, Moon of Earth, as well as some areas on the planet Earth, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

    Clause 6: Until the population of 25,000 inhabitants has been achieved for a specific state, representatives may reside on Earth as well as their respective state.

    Clause 4: Taxation of citizenry by the Galactic Government shall never be imposed unless for the immediate raising of funds to provide security and major problem resolution to the citizenry and in any case may never rise above a 5% flat rate on all citizenry and as a percentage all citizenry will pay the same flat rate. Individual states within the union may not set taxation rates on citizens above a 5% flat rate for all citizens and no citizen shall be required to pay a greater than 10% cumulative rate to all levels of government. Restrictions of two years are set in place for these taxable times. At the end of the conflict or problems solved the tax base will be repealed to 0% until next needed. This clause shall never be changed or infringed upon.

    Section. 8. Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the Galactic Government; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the union;

    Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the Galactic Government;

    Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Galactic Guard;

    Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and space Forces;

    Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Legions to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    Clause 8: Because of the uniqueness of its origins the Galactic Government shall entertain and accept the idea of creating a position for the founder of the Galactic Government, Dennis M. Hope who shall act as President of the Galactic Government until the first election. He shall also retain the title of CEO ( Celestial Executive Officer) of the Galactic Government and until his natural death and shall hold a place of distinction and high regard within the Galactic Government.

    (There is much, much more information to be gleaned from the large, 102 page document pertaining to the now fully recognized, lawfully binding, rights and entitlements of the Galactic Government. PDF)

    I'm still craving an intellectual debate regarding the contents of this thread. I am not an intellectual - yet I would still like to discuss Solar System Governance with intellectuals. There has to be some retired Jesuits, who are perhaps more able to speak freely, who could take a variety of stances regarding SSG in general, and my USSS editorial bias in particular. I've drawn a line in the sand - yet my mind is not completely made up. In the heat of a debate - many things tend to come to light. As it is - I have to rely on research and imagination - to test the ideas in this thread. A Walter Martin / Mitchell Pacwa style debate would be cool. I'd probably lose - but it would still be fun. I'm really not a lawyer type - so I tend to be very honest and fair - rather than slanting things, in order to win. I'd have the best chance online - rather than face to face. I can't think very fast! I thought it best to stick to an obscure forum, devoted to controversial subjects - rather than making a great big deal about this in public. I had hoped that the right people (including hybrids and et's) would be attracted to this thread. The sort of debate I envision would be very detailed and voluminous. So far - I feel as though I am antagonizing a dragon, who is just waking up, but who hasn't started fighting back. I make a very poor point-man - but someone has to do it...

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    I think I may spend a lot more time just getting better acquainted with the United Nations, Washington D.C. (including NASA and the Pentagon), the Vatican (including the Jesuits), and the City of London (including Wall Street and other financial centers throughout the world). I mean to do this in a non-antagonistic manner. I guess I just want to know how the world really operates - and then try to make it better - by being the worst enemy and the best buddy of the Powers That Be (human and otherwise). Do you see my point? I'd like to come up to speed with all of the above - and be able to constructively interact with all of them - in such a manner as to make them feel comfortable - while helping to institute changes which might make things better for everyone. An angry rebel cannot do this. A compartmentalized sell-out can't accomplish this. I'd sort of like to be a Palmer Joss type of person (Insider Theologian in "Contact") who is really low-key and informal - yet deceptively sophisticated and quick. I still think that a 'Rachael Constantine' type of person (White House Chief of Staff in "Contact") might be the ultimate authority on Earth (or at least representative of such an authority). I could only find ONE image of Angela Bassett in this important role. Is that significant, in light of my speculation? Think about THAT! The whole idea is to make things work out well for ALL CONCERNED. I know that's naive - but perhaps it's about time that the naive people of the world be given a chance to make a difference. The savvy experts have done a pretty good job of making a mess of things throughout the centuries. Watching Bloomberg on the internet seems to be a good place to begin. I'm going to try to spend a bit less time on the esoteric and conspiratorial. This does have it's place - but it tends to take over - and become increasingly negative and hostile. This whole thing is quite the juggling-act, isn't it?

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    What should be the proper role for a President of the United States of the Solar System? I think they should be essentially a spokesperson for the decisions made by the Representatives and Senators. I further think that they should not do a lot of travelling - but rather that they should be directly involved in the day to day activities at USSS Headquarters. Guests and Representatives would obviously be warmly welcomed. The USSS would probably be pretty mellow and low-key. I am having a difficult time imagining what life at USSS Headquarters would really be like. I'm still thinking of the St. Mary's location - but this is really just a visual aid. I think it would be a cool building - but it is highly unlikely that this site could be obtained - and it might not even be desirable. Logistics, Security, and Antichrist Issues might also be problematic. Anyway - back to the Presidency. I would be in favor of quite limited presidential powers. This would help to avoid corruption. Sometimes I think that politicians really end up being actors and actresses on a stage - with others writing the script. In a USSS - the Representatives and Senators would really and truly write their own scripts. There would be a minimum of grandstanding and theater - and a maximum of logic, reason, and thoughtful reflection - in the context of courteous communication. Of course there would be pomp and circumstance prior to, and following, USSS sessions - complete with Herald Trumpets - but the politicians would save the drama for their mammas. I realize that this whole thing has a snowball's chance in hell of actually materializing - but it is sort of fun to conceptualize. Perhaps some aspects of this thread might be implemented at some point during the remainder of this century. I mean no disrespect in utilizing St. Mary's as part of this pipe-dream. But it is this type of building which would be appropriate for such a vast and important assembly. Namaste.

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    Would it be possible to model various forms of Solar System Governance - with a Cray Supercomputer Program? Again - I'm just scratching the surface of this subject here in this thread. I'm just a rank amateur. This is intended to make all of you think about various possibilities. I'm not doing this to be yet another pain in the @$$ for those who are trying to run the world. I just think that a critical mass of the population needs to really think this thing through - or we will end up with a really nasty New World Order - which we might deserve because of our stupidity and irresponsibility. Oh - I know about Regressive ET's and Hybrids - and I partially blame them - but a lot of the rest of us have missed the mark - by a very wide margin. Times, they are a changing. Don't get left behind. Consider this brand-new Project Avalon interview, in light of a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System. I mean well - but how in the hell am I supposed to get it right, without accurate and complete information. I'm thrashing around - trying to get it right - but it's not really working for me. I hope others can learn something from my mental masturbation. I'd like to do more - but I've gone spiritually blind by abusing myself for most of my life. Cool Game Over.

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    I just posted 'Game Over' - but once again, I'm back. I just can't stop. That new interview on Project Avalon was really cool. Please listen to it, at least a couple of times. I'm still craving some sort of a conversation regarding Solar System Governance. Obsessive, compulsive, neurotic, and paranoid are some words which describe me quite well! Once again - please consider joining me on my journey, which focuses upon this thread, in the context of my other threads. It's not that these threads are so profound or special. It's just that they are a road less travelled - and because of all the questions I ask, they are a mental and spiritual workout. What is really and truly going on in this solar system? Is the real truth too hard for us to handle? It might be, at this point - but I think that over a decade or so, we will be able to prepare ourselves to hear the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth - without starting yet another Star War. I get the feeling that our history is very sad and upsetting. I really think that this thread can help to prepare us to govern ourselves with the complete knowledge of who we are, and where we have been, spiritually and galactically. Unfortunately, "Unyielding Despair" might be part of the deal - and I think we should prepare ourselves for this possibility. We need to become a lot more stable, and grow some really thick skin - so we don't destroy each other at the slightest provocation. I have tried to be matter of fact and honest in all of my posts and threads. They have been intended to help all of us to get a handle on reality - and to learn to engage in rational speculation and research.

    Is this solar system presently in the best of hands - or the worst of hands? If a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System were established by 2020 - would the solar system be in the best of hands - or the worst of hands? Advanced technology and weaponry are of particular concern to me. How should this madness be properly managed? I call it madness, because it seems that this solar system could probably be vaporized in a matter of seconds. This is just conjecture - so can someone set me straight if we really don't have the capablility to cause this solar system to cease and desist? I think we need a lot more than 33 people to carry the weight of the solar system on their shoulders. I think that all of us should imagine that we are members of this 'Elite 33' group. I have proposed that 10,000 people should know everything about everything, as they rule this solar system. Is this too many, or too few? Once again - imagine 2,000 of these people meeting at St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco, on a daily basis - with the other 8,000 participating electronically from throughout the solar system. St. Mary's is just a hypothetical location - but it might help us to conceptualize the solar system governance of the future. Treat all of this as science fiction, which just might be part of our future.

    One more thing. Perhaps we need some bad good-guys and some good bad-guys - but I don't think we need any bad bad-guys whatsoever. I like good good-guys - but how good is too good? I'm trying to be a good-guy with some rough edges. I like the James Bond and Obi Wan Kenobi characters. Perhaps we need to be wise as Lucifer - and harmless as Christ. Sorry if that offends anyone. I really do like the word 'Namaste'. Namaste is one of a small list of Sanskrit words commonly recognized by Non-Hindi speakers. Namaskār (Devnagari/Hindi: नमस्कार) literally means "I bow to [your] form". "I honor the Spirit in you which is also in me." -- attributed to but not claimed by author Deepak Chopra. "I honor the place in you in which the entire Universe dwells, I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Integrity, of Wisdom and of Peace. When you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, we are One." "That which is of God in me greets that which is of God in you." "The Divinity within me perceives and adores the Divinity within you." 'Namaste' gives 'Constitutional Responsible Freedom' an ecumenical spiritual and/or religious twist.
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    I'm obviously not connecting with anyone - but I will continue to ramble. I really don't know when to stop - so I won't. Unfortunately - they have ways to make me stop. Many ways. I keep feeling anger and alienation. I really identify with no one. I really don't feel at home anywhere. I try to be rational and reasonable - but this seems to accomplish nothing. I just have to talk to myself - and live within my own consciousness. If anyone finds anyone who sounds like me - please let me know. I wonder how many truly intelligent and profound people are in insane asylums - because they thought long and hard about the most important subjects - but no one would listen to them, or talk to them. I'd really like to discuss this subject, without making people angry or afraid - but calm and rational conversation about the most important subjects doesn't seem to be happening. Not to me anyway. I suspect that my next life (if I have one) will be more of the same - which is not exactly something to look forward to. I listened to Alex Jones for about an hour today. I like Alex a lot. I wish I had half of his energy and guts. I mean well - but I'm really quite timid and slow. People like Alex make me feel guilty. They seem to be doing so much to fight the evil and corruption in the world. I feel like a sell-out compared to them. I'm a "can't we just all get along, and sing kumbaya?" kind of person. This is probably not a good thing. People like that, tend to get run over. I feel like unseen entities are beating up on me 24/7 - and I'm really quite sluggish and slow. I'm not sure what to do about this - but I think I need to overdose on Bill Cooper and Alex Jones - to try to move in their direction. Unrelatedly - check out this Timothy Good interview.

    Here's something to think about:

    1. Temples (Pyramids, Synagogues, Mosques, Churches, Cathedrals, Capitol Buildings)
    2. Rituals (Sacred and Satanic - including Masses)
    3. Sacrifices (Including Human)
    4. Sun (Sirius)
    5. Reptiles (Various Varieties)
    6. Advanced Technology
    7. Genetic Hybridization
    8. Worship and Submission
    9. Enslavement
    10. Hegelian Dialectic
    11. Conquest
    12. Rebellion
    13. Revenge
    14. Corruption and Blackmail
    15. Archangels, Angels, and Demons
    16. Interdimensional Reptilians Inhabiting Humans and Hybrids
    17. Astrological and Mythological Theology
    18. Extermination (Body and/or Soul)
    19. Machiavelli - "The Prince"
    20. Rule by Secrecy and Deception - with Heavy Taxation

    Are we primarily dealing with an Ancient and Ongoing Human vs Hybrid ("V's") Civil War? Do the Hybrids have the upper hand - even though they remain mostly hidden? Are they preparing to take over Earth completely - rather than simply ruling from the shadows? Will most of us be driven off-world, exterminated, or enslaved? BTW - no inside information - so don't pack your bags just yet. The horror. Sorry for the negativity - but I am simply trying to be honest. This is probably a mistake. The truth is so overrated. नमस्कार

    This is an infowar, right? Well, I thought I'd post some Sun Tzu quotes. I'm thinking that Constructive Competition will replace Destructive Competition in a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System. Star Wars and Masters of the Universe are so old-school.

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    1. All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.

    2. You have to believe in yourself.

    3. When envoys are sent with compliments in their mouths, it is a sign that the enemy wishes for a truce.

    4. All warfare is based on deception.

    5. Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.

    6. Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?

    7. Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

    8. For them to perceive the advantage of defeating the enemy, they must also have their rewards.

    9. For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.

    10. He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious.

    11. He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.

    12. Hence that general is skilful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skilful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.

    13. If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril.

    14. If our soldiers are not overburdened with money, it is not because they have a distaste for riches; if their lives are not unduly long, it is not because they are disinclined to longevity.

    15. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near.

    16. If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.

    17. In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good.

    18. Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

    19. It is essential to seek out enemy agents who have come to conduct espionage against you and to bribe them to serve you. Give them instructions and care for them. Thus doubled agents are recruited and used.

    20. It is only the enlightened ruler and the wise general who will use the highest intelligence of the army for the purposes of spying, and thereby they achieve great results.

    21. Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories.

    22. Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.

    23. Now the reason the enlightened prince and the wise general conquer the enemy whenever they move and their achievements surpass those of ordinary men is foreknowledge.

    24. Of all those in the army close to the commander none is more intimate than the secret agent; of all rewards none more liberal than those given to secret agents; of all matters none is more confidential than those relating to secret operations.

    25. Opportunities multiply as they are seized.

    26. Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.

    27. Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared.

    28. Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death.

    29. Secret operations are essential in war; upon them the army relies to make its every move.

    30. Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

    31. Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

    32. The enlightened ruler is heedful, and the good general full of caution.

    33. The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom.

    34. The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand.

    35. The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy.

    36. The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

    37. The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim.

    38. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man.

    39. The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

    40. There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.

    41. Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

    42. Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy.

    43. To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

    44. To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence.

    45. Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

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    I know I've posted this before, but here it is again. Please consider reading 1. 'The Gods of Eden' by William Bramley. 2. 'Rule by Secrecy' by Jim Marrs. 3. 'Behold a Pale Horse' by Bill Cooper. 4. 'The Great Controversy' by Ellen White. Then consider creating a composite worldview with these four books. I know there are others - and I mention these volumes only as a starting point. I think the material presented is essential to a proper understanding of this thread. I think it's really going to take a lot of work to get this right. There are more ways to get it wrong, than there are ways to get it right. I also keep feeling as though we are running out of time. What if all of the ET's, Hybrids, UFO's, Underground Bases, Nukes, Advanced Weaponry, Governments, Religions, Agencies, Mainstream Media, Major Financial Institutions, etc. (in this solar system) - are ALL controlled by ONE GROUP RULED BY ONE INDIVIDUAL? Consider Occam, Hegel, Machiavelli, and Lucifer. What if ALL of the damned elites are errand boys? If there is an Ancient and Ongoing Human vs Hybrid Civil War - perhaps everyone is wrong. What if all of us are fallen angels? What if all of us are a mixture of good and evil? I'm still seeing a Local God - as being separate and distinct from the Creator God of the Universe. There is a huge missing piece of the God Puzzle. I really do want answers, but I'm much more interested in Resolution, than I am in Crucifixion. If my dream (chimera?) of a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System became a reality - should the present PTB (human and otherwise) be absorbed, rather than expelled or destroyed? What do they say about keeping your friends close - and your enemies closer? If they remained a part of things - would they be less likely to plot revenge? Would Heaven be more difficult to govern than Purgatory (which we seem to be in presently) or Hell? Would we have a Hell of a Time Governing Heaven? Is this blasphemous talk - or is this the reality which we are faced with? Does the rest of the universe love us - or are they majorly p!$$ed-off at us? If peace were achieved in this solar system - would this necessarily mean that we were at peace with the rest of the universe? We might have a very short celebration. Regardless of what happens - there will be no high-fives, gloating, strutting, or unkindness from me. Now I'm going to go back to watching Bloomberg. Or should I listen to Alex Jones?

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    Are things ever going to be genuinely peaceful and happy - throughout the entire universe - for a significant period of time (say, a couple of billion years)? I get the feeling that things are screwed-up everywhere - and that no matter how hard we try to do the right thing - things will still be screwed-up everywhere. Am I as happy now, as I will ever be? I'm not happy now - and I doubt that I will be happy later - even if the editorial content of this thread is completely implemented. I just get the sinking feeling that the fun never ends - and that there will always be some sort of strife and warfare. I keep thinking about the movie 'Legion'. I didn't really like the movie - but it really made me think. And, of course, if the vengeful deities don't get us - we'll probably destroy ourselves (to the brink of extinction) with all of the fancy weaponry and black projects. Isn't everyone just so goddamn clever????? I'm tired of the BS.

    I'd like to see a completely positive version of "V" - with my dream (chimera?) of a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System - established, and operating smoothly. You know - what things might possibly be like in 2112. That would be a cool series, wouldn't it? Hint! Hint! Is there a Hollywood Insider in the house? I continue to treat all of this as an ongoing science fiction series - which might contain some truth. I keep speaking of Lucifer. If I ever met Lucifer, I would be respectful, aloof, detached, questioning, non-committal - and I would attempt to treat them as I would any other individual. I wouldn't start yelling Bible texts at them, in the name of Jesus. I'd really like to absorb the existing PTB into a new paradigm of governance. I don't wish to join them. I wish for them to join me. I wish to vastly reduce their power - but I don't wish to destroy them. I think this thing might be more delicate than brain surgery. Incidentally, there are two factions of Annunaki, in conflict with each other, right? They're probably arguing about what the heck to do with us. They might have a tiger by the tail. They might be afraid to let go - and risk yet another Star War. Just speculation. Many of us are good - because we lack the opportunity to be bad. Everyone has their price - which is why I desire that solar system governance become more transparent, decentralized, and accountable. Everyone seems to want to kill someone - which is why those who have the tiger by the tail, may be afraid to let go. Things might really go to hell. How do we make things better - without making things worse? I keep thinking that the full truth regarding all hidden ancient and modern power struggles - needs to be revealed to the general public (in installments) - and that a reconciliation should occur. But once more, I don't know much of this secret story. I don't know Jack. I don't even know Jill - or Kali, for that matter. I just keep thinking about an ancient hybridization program, abuse of power, rebellion, war, enslavement - and ultimately the Annunaki ruling Humanity from the shadows - and keeping forbidden knowledge, advanced technology, and who knows what - hidden from mankind. But, the Annunaki should be considered to be part of Humanity, shouldn't they? Just asking. I keep thinking that probably no one is guiltless - historically and presently. I keep thinking about Gizeh Intelligence, Confiscated Technology, Underground Bases, Hybridization, Monotheism, North Africa, the Middle East, India, China, and Tibet. The ancient power struggles might have been really, really bad - and might have included nuclear war (throughout the solar system - or War in Heaven?). 1. 2. 3. Our recorded history might be the cold war aftermath of a really hot war. And always remember that the victors write the history books. Could the Sumerian Tablets and the Bible have been purposely miswritten - to hide a very different, and much darker, history? What would Kali say?

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    I feel a bit like Kevin Cosgrove, on the 105th floor of the World Trade Center (tower 2), on 09-11-01 - desperately calling for help. I'm rewatching "2012" - so I'm in a mood. It's part of a "V" administered empathy test - as a preliminary prerequisite for face to face interaction with Anna. Actually - I'm in a mood most of the time. I really do feel as though we are running out of time. All of us might be on the 105th floor - so to speak. To whom it may concern - can we skip the controlled-demolition of Planet Earth? Just wondering. "Step away from the Cray...and nobody gets hurt..."

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    Thank-you Mercuriel. If we are Creators - did we create the hybrids (Annunaki?) who seem to be creating a lot of the trouble we are in - historically and presently? Are we serving a sentence for committing the Original Sin? Are we on a Galactic Death Row? Will the Governor stay the execution? If we ruled ourselves - would we get into even worse trouble than we're already in? Do we need to remain in some sort of a jail or insane asylum? I keep getting the feeling that everyone is guilty and crazy - including the jailers.

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    As the new solar system government takes shape - I have encountered some disturbing news. It seems that

    1. The Nibiruan Delegation are Gold-Diggers.

    2. The Pluto Delegation are Plutocrats.

    3. The Uranus Delegation are @$$h0les.

    4. The Venus Delegation are Luciferians.

    5. The Mercury Delegation are Hotheads.

    6. The Earth Moon Delegation are Nazis.

    7. The Sun Delegation is Loyal to Ra.

    Is there really any harm in living in this little fantasyland? Governance is a real problem. How does one trust anyone to do the right thing? One doesn't, right? I continue to think that the primary focus should be on governance, in general - and solar system governance, in particular. Even Jesus said 'Seek ye first the Kingdom of God'. Perhaps there should be a course of study - leading to a PhD - titled 'Solar System Studies' - which would be multidisciplinary - and which would mostly be independent study - covering everything from theology, exopolitics, conspiracy-theories, astrophysics, ufology - to alien anatomy and physiology. I'm sort of doing that now - but it's going really slow - because I am so burned-out. I feel like a Commodore 64 with dial-up internet. It's that bad.
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    If the Human Race committed the Original Sin, and was reigned-in by the Annunaki - why has there not been an open, honest, fair, ethical rule - while keeping the hypothetical dangerous technology and wisdom, safely stored in subterranian vaults? Why the rule by secrecy, corruption, deception, violence, etc, etc? I can understand a properly run prison planet - but this world has been a mess for thousands of years. I really just want Earth and the Solar System, to be run properly, as I have mentioned over and over. I don't know who is best suited to run things. I don't know the best method of governance. I have made observations, speculations, and suggestions - but I still don't really know. I don't know my reincarnational past. I might have been the best - the worst - or both the best and the worst. I might have been a dud - lifetime after lifetime. I've certainly been a dud, this time around. But you have to understand, that I have felt like crap for most of my life, and I don't know why. I started out smart, and ended up stupid. I keep trying to learn about both the exoteric and the esoteric - but it doesn't seem to be doing any good. I make post after post - with very little response. There is no financial compensation - and it really seems to wear on the soul. Tangentially - would a huge planetarium be a splendiferous United States of the Solar System Capitol Building? If St. Mary's doesn't work out - consider the planetarium idea. But consider building it above an underground base - and on a magneto-leviton train route!! Hell - just build it on top of Mt. Weather!! I'd better stop. I'm getting silly!! What would Dr. Krupp say?
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    Do Humans (as we know them) and the Annunaki (hybrids?) have the same type of soul? Is it just the containers which are different? Who created who (container-wise)? Is this a Human vs Annunaki battle - or is it a Good Human / Good Annunaki vs Bad Human / Bad Annunaki power struggle? I hope there are some secret societies developing around the concept of this thread. I'm pretty ineffectual - but I'm sure there are plenty of individuals (human and otherwise) who can get the job done - so to speak. Defectors from all sides and factions are always welcome. There may be many variations on the basic theme. I think things are going to be difficult - but I think we're all going to be ok. Namaste.

    Just for the helluvit - consider the possibility of three competing Sirian/Annunaki/Gizeh-Intelligence factions - going back tens of thousands of years - in this solar system, and in the Sirian solar systems. If this hypothesis has credence - the specific characteristics and philosophies of each faction would need to be determined. I have speculated on this sort of thing elsewhere - so I won't repeat myself presently. My point here is that we might all be Sirian/Annunaki/Gizeh-Intelligence in one way or another. We might all be long lost relatives. I'm seeing two very powerful and violent factions - and a peaceful, but relatively powerless, third faction. I'm hoping that all factions will unite under the banner of the peaceful faction - while still retaining their discipline and power. I tend to think that a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka The United States of the Solar System - would facilitate such a union. I'd like to retain the best of all that history has to offer - and reject the worst. We should have enough historical data, at this point, to determine what works and what doesn't. Perhaps the three hypothetical Sirian/Annunaki/Gizeh-Intelligence factions are ALL THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH - TERRESTRIALLY AND EXTRATERRESTRIALLY. Perhaps the rest of the stories are just fabricated BS. Could Nibiru be a Space Shuttle between the Sirius Solar Systems and Our Solar System? Is Nibiru really Sirius C? Perhaps we should focus upon the Sirius Solar Systems and Our Solar System (including Nibiru). I am presently worried about Galactic Conquest - past and present. How bad have things really been? How bad are things right at this moment? What would Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer say? "Shut that oxymoron up NOW!!!" "OK boss!!!"

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    magamud wrote:Great line of inquiry Otho my compliments. I dont have any answers just speculations from my own trajectory in space. I suspect a timeline of endless war, secrecy and manipulation then Christ, Shiva, general son/daughter of God comes in and throws Lucifer/Kali in the pit for a thousand years and again more seeds are planted for the harvest. I suspect this is the way of things in this sector here on earth. I suspect there are infinite amount of permutations of this seedling process as well with different varieties of containers for the soul. I suspect that knowing will be in better order when knowing is transparent and felt. The Holy spirit is an amazing thing. With the vast amount of holy spirit filling that vacuum in space I suspect people will be in awe and less involved in unscrupulous acts. This would cultivate a need to know about self and a desire to work together in a namaste universal governance. I suspect there would be many duties required as there would be many beings requiring information on the event. But I cant prove anything nor do I have the energy to put up a dissertation of my discovery to have it shot down by a flippant egotist, atheist, nihilistic, ubermensch. Nietzsche would be very proud? Buddha is very proud? Its all pieces to the puzzle. I think it would be a hoot, if this sector is meteor bombarded every so often and God is just making the best out of the situation. Give us our day and our daily bread and forgive our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us? I think the amount of truth we do receive is a gift from God to say I told you so when you awake. The irony is the awakening process starts with YOU first. So imposing you would be hypocritical dont you think?

    A little humor and fantasy never hurt anyone?

    For your musical entertainment Buck Owens tiger by the tail Razz

    I think all the Religions have some piece of the puzzle, but why all the infighting? Is there not enough space for everyone?

    A little Earth err, I mean Dune...
    There's a lot to think about in your post, magamud, and my laptop battery is just about dead, so I'll have to comment more later -- but I keep thinking that this solar system is run like a big business -- but with little regard for humanity. Hypothetically, the bottom-line is the bottom-line -- and if a war makes the most money -- then war it is. I don't object to running the solar system as a big business -- but I would seek to keep everyone out of war -- and I would seek to preserve the environment. But really, life might have to be somewhat harsh, in order to maximize the potential of humanity. There's an ethical and an unethical way to do this -- and I would insist on the ethical way. I wouldn't have a problem working with really smart and tough Hollywood and New York Jews -- or with City of London Masons -- or with Vatican Jesuits -- if and only if they were reasonable, rational, and reasonably ethical -- in a pragmatic, but non-violent and non-corrupt manner. There's a lot of fine-lines and gray-areas -- but there are certain activities and practices that are NOT OK -- and sufficient competent oversight would be necessary to keep everyone on-task and above-board. The Mafia and other Organized-Crime Groups might have to be made part of a completely legal money-making plan -- designed to keep them from descending into Hell -- and taking the rest of the world with them -- if you know what I mean. I don't wish to be a standoffish prude -- but I do wish to pursue a path of harsh ethical economic excellence -- if you know what I mean...
    magamud wrote:I respect your inquiry Ortho and it could be the hardest question to solve. How to govern man when man is divided. You will always have some diametrical opposed position at least in this dimension. If you have transparency then what about privacy? Then if you dont have transparency evil can hide and manipulate. Some people don't like being told what to do and some do. It aint easy thats for sure. The US constitution is a good place to start. Keeping the State power is important imho. Each state would have its own personal individuality and people could freely choose their preference to support. Self sustainability, self responsibility, 40 acres and a mule type of thing. You have to protect your own farm so we dont need all this police bullshit. Food, education etc... Wouldnt that be nice. A cap on power for the individual and state because power corrupts. Acknowledgement that our dimensions is fragile and exists with other dimensions. So no atom smashing, no fossil fuel bullshite. If the species is conditioned into self sustainability perhaps our need for entertainment would be severely diminished? It would be an insult to not think for yourself? Peoples own thoughts seen as precious. Hmmmm lots to ponder...

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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:20 am

    Thank-you magamud. Most of the insider-loudmouths, conspiracy-theorists, and esoteric-researchers (who I have any respect for) seem to be harsh toward BOTH the Powers That Be AND We the Peons. The PTB have been caught planning and doing this and that reprehensible and karma-multiplying horror -- and they have more money than God (while people starve to death) -- YET the General-Public never seems to really "Get-It" -- and they keep falling into the most simple and stupid traps. The Gods seem to be Angry and Insane -- while the Loving and Gentle Jesus model seems to be too soft and high-minded for the realities everyone faces every day. Preventive and Natural Medicine makes the most sense -- yet the Fame, Fortune, Power, Sophistication, and Excitement resides in the Big, Fancy Medical-Centers throughout the world. We probably have enough weaponry to destroy ALL Life in the Solar System -- in a matter of minutes -- yet we seem to need more and more technology and weapon-systems. "The Quickening" which Art Bell used to talk about seems to be getting quicker and quicker. Christianity often seems like a gimmick for the gullible -- yet the alternatives often seem to be contradictory and insane. I often wonder if, after identifying how bad things have been in this solar system for thousands of years -- one might come to the conclusion that it might've been nearly impossible to avoid the absurdities and atrocities. I was thrilled when I first walked into the Crystal Cathedral and heard Dr. Robert H. Schuller proudly exclaim "This is the Day the Lord Has Made!! Let Us Rejoice and be Glad In It!!" -- yet the novelty wore-off somewhat quickly when I attended choir-rehearsals, services, and concerts -- day after day -- week after week -- month after month -- year after year -- and I heard a lot of complaining and bitterness from the membership (and even some of the staff). I've joked about being a Token Ethical Insider at some point in the future -- but I know that if this ever became a reality that the novelty would quickly wear-off and that I would witness things which would be truly shocking and reprehensible. I probably would NOT like the view from the Top of the Pyramid. I once spoke with someone who told me that they tried very, very hard to rise to the top -- so they could hob-nob with the elites -- but that when they "arrived" they found that the elite people were a bunch of jerks (or something to that effect). George Green had a similar experience. I would have a helluva lot more respect if I cleaned-up my act, made lots of money, and focused on appearances. It wouldn't really matter if I lived like the devil when no one was looking -- now would it?? Ethical Agonizing is SO Overrated. If I moved to a Room on the Moon -- would it be immoral and unethical if I had a VERY Sexy and Smart Assistant, Housekeeper, and Intimate-Companion??!! Perhaps I should stop before I really expose and crucify myself. Siriusly, I fear that I might've been the best and the worst on a reincarnational-basis. What if we discover that some of the best figures in history were really some of the worst figures in history??

    Is there something to being a Highly-Successful Appearances-Obsessed High-Degree Mason-Insider?? Does this involve Selling One's Soul to You Know Who?? Is this simply the way things work?? Should I have accepted the Ancient Egyptian Deity's invitation to join the Masons?? Should I have tried to "play-ball" instead of just asking a lot of questions and remaining mostly distant, cool, and neutral?? Should I have stopped posting material on the internet which the AED might've considered to be exposing them or hostile to them (even though I made no non-disclosure agreements with them -- other than not being too direct and obvious)?? Should I have tried to enter the "Shadowy Underworld"?? Did I blow my "Big-Chance"?? I continue to think that I'm in the middle of some sort of a Spiritual-War which might go way, way back. A lot of my slowness, sluggishness, and stupidity seems to be related to my feeling absolutely horrible, miserable, and oppressed. I seem to be getting shot-up in no-man's-land 24/7. I'm explaining more than complaining. I've been told that I'm making things harder on myself than I have to -- and that I'm mostly arguing with myself. Am I supposed to accept or reject the Bible?? Am I supposed to accept or reject Seventh-day Adventist Christianity?? Have I hung myself with my lifestyle, occupation, lack of excellence, unfriendliness, contrariness, rebelliousness, irresponsibility, and this thread (among others)?? Was I supposed to be another Robert Schuller or Joel Osteen?? Was I supposed to be a Big-Shot Neurosurgeon?? What the Hell Was the Expectation?? Should I have been another Dr. Zane Kime?? I seemed to know way too much as a child -- and then I got dumber and dumber and dumber. I seem to be happiest and most-miserable when I am attending various scholarly meetings and concerts. I seem to be a Really-Stupid Pseudo-Intellectual. Most days I seem to be in a daze. I am SO dazed and confused. 1. 2. 3. Perhaps I have found some sort of a niche with the research and posting seen in this thread. I seem to have a lot of insights -- while remaining a completely ignorant fool. Even if I had a Room on the Moon -- I'd probably just keep watching, listening, and posting. Very little might change. Perhaps the distinction between Insider and Outsider might become more and more blurred as time marches on. There is SO Much information available on the internet and in various books -- for ANYONE. I'm still not sure if this is a good-thing or a bad-thing. I really don't know which way to jump at this point. Every option seems flawed to me. If I ever had direct contact with those who REALLY run this solar system -- I suspect that it would be a love-hate relationship -- with friendliness, unfriendliness -- and probably even some REALLY Nasty shouting-matches!!

    I continue to think that various science-fiction series and movies reveal bits and pieces of the Way Things Really Work. I really think the Truth is Out There -- if one takes the time to put the pieces of the puzzle together. The Truth continues to elude me -- yet I think I have been exposed to a helluva lot of truth -- both good and bad. I doubt that Disclosure would surprise me. Regardless of how corrupt the PTB might be -- I suspect that I am probably just as corruptible as they are -- and if I were in their shoes, I might be a lot worse than I think they might be. I might be a really bad@ss reincarnational SOB. The Ancient Egyptian Deity told me that we had "Fought Side by Side". Didn't Raven say that the rabbit-hole mostly went right up my @$$?? I'll never forget the day (several years ago) when Bartleby and Loki (Lucifer and Gabriel?) pulled-up next to me in their car (while I was walking my dog). They didn't say anything. They just gave me a very long, hard, and knowing look -- for about 20 seconds -- before driving away. True Story. I should've stopped this quest -- right then and there.
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    I Samuel 21:10-22:5 – Crazy David and His Band - The Adult Bible Class of Home Moravian Church, originally broadcast Sept. 7, 2008 by Craig D. Atwood
    Introduction: Good morning and welcome to the Adult Bible Class of Home Moravian Church on what was supposed to be a stormy weekend in North Carolina. It is hurricane season in the South, but the weather was nice for the WFU game. It is always nice when the righteous are victorious. Temperatures are already rising on the political scene now that both parties have had their conventions. It was nice to hear that John McCain and Barak Obama agree on many points about the failures of government in recent years, but they disagree over the solutions. One of the most amusing comments I heard about the campaigns recently was by my daughter Sarah. She said she was all that impressed that Ms. Palin hunts moose. How hard could it be to find a moose and hit it? They’re pretty large and don’t move all that fast. I do hope that people of faith throughout the country will be involved in the political process. Religion and politics can be a strange combination. It was interesting to hear an executive of the Southern Baptist Convention accusing the press of sexism for questioning the wisdom of having Sarah Palin as a vice-president. Apparently, the church’s leaders believe that a woman can be trusted with the most powerful military in history, but cannot be pastor of a Baptist Church. No matter what the outcome, this will be an historic election. For the first time in history, the President or Vice-president will be from either Alaska or Hawaii.

    We’ve started classes at Wake, and I have 40 students in my Christian Theology class. It is a remarkably good group of students, some of whom are anxious about studying theology. It appears that many of them grew up in churches that taught them that it was wrong for Christians to think about God or ask questions. That saddens me when I ponder the fact that for over 1500 years the Christian Church was the major institution for education and intellectual debate, but now churches have retreated from the life of the mind. Not only should people of faith be involved in politics, we need to be involved in the liberal arts, humanities, sciences, social sciences, and all realms of academic life. I hope that in these radio broadcasts, your curiosity has been piqued and you have had something to think about and maybe argue about with a friend. I want to give a shout out to one of my former students who was ordained last week. Keith Stirewalt was a member of Home Moravian Church when he felt a call to leave a lucrative business career and go to divinity school. He graduated with a Masters of Divinity from Wake Forest and has served for a couple of years as a chaplain at Baptist Hospital. Last week he was ordained as a minister by Wake Forest Baptist Church, and I know that God will find wonderful ways to use Keith.

    This week we have one of the strangest stories in the whole Old Testament. It is such a strange story that the biblical commentaries I read have almost nothing to say about it. It is a story that is almost never heard in church, and is not in the lectionary. Only the most fool hearty minister would dare preach on it. So, here I go.

    Read I Samuel 21:10-end

    David and Achish: One indication of just how powerful King Saul was is that when David fled, there was no place in Israel where he could hide. He knew that Saul would seek him out, so he had to leave Saul’s realm completely. The closest place to seek refuge was the land of the Philistines, and so David sought protection from Achish the king of Gath. This is one of those stories in the Bible that is so amazing it must be true. It must have been embarrassing years later that David, the Lord’s Anointed, went to one of the Philistine kings in an attempt to escape the wrath of Saul. What is more remarkable is that he went to the king of Gath carrying the sword of Goliath of Gath. You must be desperate if your only hope is that one of your worst enemies will take you in and protect you. This was worse than one of the Hatfields appearing on the front porch of grandpa McCoy looking for help. This is worse than Rush Limbaugh asking Nancy Pelosi for a job. You can just picture the original hearers of this story saying to themselves “was David insane?”

    There are actually two stories in I Samuel about David going to King Achish in Gath. We’ll discuss the second one in detail in a few weeks. For now, I’ll just say that it is quite different. In the second story, David comes before the Philistine king as the leader of a fearsome army and is welcomed as a valuable ally on the theory that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We’ll see that the king even rewards David with the gift of a city that remained part of David’s familial estates for centuries. In that second story, we have a picture of David as a powerful tribal chieftain who could make a mutually beneficial alliance with a more powerful king. That is not the picture given here in chapter 21. Scholars debate whether both stories could be historically accurate. We can’t solve the historical problem without more evidence than we have in the text of I Samuel, but we can still look at the meaning of the story that we do have.

    Busted! It appears in chapter 21 that David thought he could assume a new identity in the land of the Philistines and perhaps hire himself out as a soldier. Persumably this was the advice he had gotten from the priest in Nob. But David was already too famous for that. Verse 13 says that he was “in their hands” when he appeared before Achish, which may indicate that he had been taken prisoner when the servants of the king recognized him. Here was the feared David who had killed so many Philistines on the command of King Saul. They quoted to the king the couplet that had caused David so much trouble back home: Saul has slain his thousands, and David his tens of thousands. That chant by the dancing women was sung in praise of the young hero, but fame brings its own grief. That chant had turned Saul against David, and now David is haunted by it in his exile. He is too famous to hide; he will have to fulfill his destiny.

    It is very interesting that the servants of Saul call David “the king of the land.” Presumably the land is Israel, but it is not at all clear in the text. Some scholars speculate that this may have been a slip of the author who accidentally made David a king before he had a kingdom, but it is more likely that author wanted to show that even foreigners recognized who the real king of Israel was. So far in the story David has been identified as the legitimate king by prophets, priests and even Saul’s children. Now he is proclaimed king by the servants of Achish. A third possibility is that the term king in those days did not have the same meaning that it had later. Achish was one of five Philistine kings, each of whom controlled a major city-state. In the Iliad, there were many kings fighting for Agamemnon who was the “king of kings.” With David’s reputation, it would be natural for the Philistines to assume that he was a king. David was not the last famous person to be proclaimed a king without having been crowned. Just think of Elvis.

    The key point is that David’s cover is blown and King Achish realizes that this is the man who once brought Saul over a hundred Philistine foreskins as a bride price. He was not just some shepherd boy or musician; he was a dangerous warrior who was now in the hands of his enemies. When David discovered that he was recognizable even in the land of his enemies, he grew very afraid, as you might imagine. He suddenly realized he was not much safer in Gath than he would have been back in Israel. Since he was “in their hands,” he was not free to go. If you’ve seen Lawrence of Arabia, think of what it was like when Lawrence fell into the hands of one of the Arabian chiefs. Death comes swiftly in these situations. David was in trouble and had to think fast. He did the only reasonable thing to do when you realize that you’ve done something crazy. He acted crazy. You thought Shakespeare made up this ruse in Hamlet didn’t you? Keep in mind that the Bard of Avon knew his Bible very well. I suppose one lesson we could take from David is that if you find yourself in a situation that is insane, it might be wise to act crazy yourself. Not that I’ve ever done so, of course.

    Crazy Messiah! David’s insanity is one of the reasons this story is rarely used in church. I am sure that in Sunday School we did not have a picture of David for the felt board that showed him with spit running down his beard or looking like a madman. We don’t like to think of the Lord’s Anointed making marks on the doors or howling at the moon. It is unseemly to say the least, but it would make Sunday School pageants more interesting. I imagine many twelve year olds would enjoy portraying David acting loony in Gath, but it might get out of hand.

    I should mention that it is possible that this story is trying to put a good spin on a problematic story from David’s biography. It is possible that David actually did have a mental breakdown during this ordeal, but later told he folks he was faking it. David would not be the first person to use such as ruse, nor would he be the only ruler in history who was a bit unbalanced. We’ve already seen that Saul had bouts of insanity and religious ecstasy. Later on David dances naked in public. Perhaps he did not always have both his oars in the water, but I digress. The text says that he was pretending to be insane.

    His plan worked. Achish was appalled by David’s behavior. Rather than having him executed, he asked his servants why they had brought a madman to him. “What? I don’t have enough crazy people around me already?” That may have been an Israelite joke about the Philistines, but it has the ring of authenticity to me. I can picture a king responding just that way.

    Part of the method in David’s madness was that people in the ancient world tended to view the insane as under the special protection of the gods. They did not have the categories of mental illness that we have today, and they certainly did not have medications to regulate brain chemistry. They assumed that irrational behavior was caused by the gods or perhaps by demons. Either way, insane people were doubly dangerous. Their actions could cause harm, but if you harmed them, you might incur the wrath of a god. Achish was not going to kill a madman, nor was he going to let him cause problems in the palace. It was much easier just to send David away. David’s plan worked, but think of the cost to him. A short time ago he had been welcomed by dancing girls singing is praises and honored at feasts. He was married to the daughter of the king and his best friend was the heir to the throne. The last judge of Israel had anointed his head with oil and proclaimed him a future king, but here he was in a dangerous exile in the palace of his enemy foaming at the mouth and pawing at the door. He has almost hit rock bottom, but he does not despair. He continues to work towards the future.

    Human Initiative: There is another reason why this section of Scripture is rarely preached in church. There is no mention of God in this story. It does not say that David prayed to the Lord and he was rescued from his enemies. Nor does it say that the Lord showed David how to preserve his life. The text is quite clear that David was afraid and he decided to play the part of a madman. Personally, I really like this aspect of I Samuel. We are constantly reminded that the great figures of the Bible used their own wits and came up with creative solutions to difficult situations. Modern Christians are sometimes too pious to think for themselves and to act boldly. Thank God David did not have to consult a committee. He saw a problem and thought up an ingenious solution. This may have the first time in history that the old cliché was true. His plan was crazy enough it just might work!

    David’s Merry Men: Once he escaped from Achish, David took refuge in the caves of Adullam near the border of Judah. It is place where it was fairly easy to hide, although it was hardly comfortable. I mentioned last week that it is not clear if David’s men had accompanied him when he fled from Saul. It sounds like he was alone in Gath, but we do not know for sure. At the beginning of chapter 22, people begin to join up with David. The Bible says that he attracted people who were dispossessed. Some were debtors. Others were in economic or legal distress. Some were no doubt outlaws and miscreants. We could read this part of the story as an ancient Hebrew version of Robin Hood and his Merry Men who were living in the wilderness hiding from the Sheriff and prince John. Like Robin Hood, David’s growing band of followers were disreputable fellows living on the margins of society.

    Modern biblical commentators like to picture David here as a liberator who reached out to the poor and oppressed, much like Jesus. Or we could picture him as the leader of a band of malcontents, nar’ do wells, and scoundrels who preferred to fight rather than pay their bills. It is possible that Samuel’s prediction about the monarchy had come true, and the king was changing property laws and foreclosing on people’s lands. How we view David at this point depends in part on our understanding of society. The picture we have makes David look a lot like Che Guevara hiding in the jungle or George Washington at Valley Forge. You can view him as a freedom fighter or a leader of an armed gang of bandits. Regardless, the story itself shows David building his own private army of men loyal to him.

    Read, if time: I Samuel 22:1-5

    Moab: David learned there was no place for him to hide, and so he prepared for battle. He does take the precaution of removing his parents from Israel. He knows Saul well enough to know that the King would have his family killed. According to this chapter, David’s parents are still alive, but it is curious that Jesse is not named here. David arranges for them to live in Moab. You may remember that one of David’s ancestors had left his home in Bethlehem during a famine and sought refuge in Moab. We studied the Book of Ruth, and saw that one of David’s immediate ancestors was from Moab. Therefore it is not surprising that David’s parents took refuge in Moab. What is surprising is that David personally negotiated with the King of Moab. This demonstrates two things: one, David was already powerful enough and famous enough that he could have access to the king of a neighboring country. It also shows that David was willing to make alliances with the traditional enemies of Israel. This is a very important lesson for politicians and statesmen today. David could negotiate with Moab, why should we fear negotiating with Iran?

    Gad: This phase of David’s life ends when an obscure prophet named Gad comes to him in his cave. We know almost nothing about this man or why he came to David. Was he sent by the prophets at Ramah or David’s supporters? Was he sent by God to remind David that he had been anointed? All we are told is that he appeared one day and convinced David it was time to go to Judah. David left the safety of the caves with his growing band of followers and returned to his homeland. In many ways, this was like Caesar crossing the Rubicon or Pancho Villa crossing the Rio Grande. David was returning to Saul’s realm with an army. Saul’s worst fears were coming true. This was a threat that could not be ignored, and for the rest of the book, David and Saul are engaged in war. Tune in next week and we’ll look at some of the stories from that ancient war.

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    What Would Alan Rickman (Metatron) Say??
    Here is some indication from Buzz Aldrin that there may be issues and individuals which might make Solar System Governance necessary. I know I'm poking my nose where it doesn't belong - but I think I'm probably just a few weeks or months ahead of the game. The thundering herd is not far behind. Fear them - not me. I'm harmless. I'm really just trying to deal with all of the new information and theories in a responsible manner. I think the confusion will hurt a lot of people - but that tactful openness is the best policy. The AED said the Jesuits do NOT like me -- but that the Phobos Martians do. They like me a lot.

    Very few of you (only a dozen) have chosen to talk to me about Solar System Governance. I have tried to consider a lot of different possibilities - and I continue to have an open mind. But if no one really seems to be interested in the subject - what conclusions should I draw from this? Do you all really not want freedom? Do you really wish to be aristocratically or theocratically ruled? Do you really want a dictator - benevolent or otherwise? I really wish to do that which is genuinely in everyone's best interest. But I feel pretty much rejected, at this point. I guess I shouldn't feel bad. The words of Jesus have been rejected for 2,000 years - and continue to be rejected. I certainly hope everyone gets what they want - and that no one is disappointed...

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    I don't mean to be shrill - but I just can't seem to get traction, or achieve resolution. I keep thinking that, at this point, I might relate better to the PTB (human and otherwise) than I would with most people. I wouldn't necessarily like them, or agree with them, but they would have been living with solar system issues and responsibilities, for a very long time - and they would, no doubt, be very knowledgeable. I might even like to get into a lengthy argument with some of them - which might include shouting and swearing. I have joked about going out on a debate-date with the Queen of Heaven!! @#$%^&*@$^!!!! I am now taking a look at Lake Vostok, and at Ellesmere Island. Thank-you for the heads-up.

    Part of what you said, really caught my eye: "In the current Earth / Terran Drama - We are in the Hybrid Container - Part Reptilian / Part Mammalian - Some being 30/70 - And some being 70/30 but that is a lesser understanding if We stop there. That stated though - They are family of a sort - Grandparents if You will in terms of Species developement and We have through those Genetics - The same potential to Evolve as They have. Hence Their attempts at Edits over time. Another question at this point would be - Who created Them before They created Us as the Hybrid ? Eh ? The Body / Avatar - In All Instances - Is the Vehicle and the case here is that We're driving on Roads They've set before Us. Our Task here is to take Our Vehicle off road if You will and drive that Vehicle without Their Regulations interferring in the Experience."

    The ultimate original creation undoubtedly goes way, way, way back. I just want to know the full, honest story of our origins, history, and destiny. This would include all hybridization programs. I have suspected that all of us are hybrids of various percentage differentials. I think I really need to think about the relationship of the Sirius Solar Systems to Our Solar System. I would like to know more about the Sovereign Queen of the Air from Sirius - who came to Tibet to conduct hybridization experiments. Nicholas Roerich spoke of her - and of seeing strange grey people. I would also like to know about all ancient conflicts, atrocities, enslavements, abuses of power, theocracies, etc. - which might help to explain why things have been so bad in recent history. I really desire resolution - rather than ongoing hatred and fighting. Of course, if I knew the complete story of horrors, I might be ready to go to war! I keep thinking that the history is really, really bad. My nervous breakdown is breaking down even more - as I keep thinking of the possibilities. I don't have a problem with guidance and regulations - but I have huge problems with terrorism, wars, atrocities, enslavements, tortures, and abuses. I'm very upset with everything right now...

    This might not be the time or the place for this post - but I would prefer to have the Goddesses supporting a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System. With or without Kali - I think the Goddess Concept is something to be reckoned with - for positive and negative reasons. Here are some impressive goddess images. I included Ra, because of the resemblance to Hathor or Isis, with the headgear and all. Is it possible to benefit from these images - as objects of aspiration, rather than veneration? I am male - yet I feel there are aspects of the divine-feminine which should be assimilated into the male consciousness. I'm just trying to understand a phenomenon which seems to have a lot to do with Kali, and even Lucifer. But, once again, I am passively pursuing this subject in a non-scholarly, pseudo-intellectual, intuitive and experiential manner. Take all of this with a sea of salt. Namaste.

    I keep wishing to do that which is in everyone's best interest - and there either seems to be no interest - or the door gets figuratively slammed in my face. Everything seems to be a great big military secret. Well, I will just keep passively promoting this thread, by adding to it, little by little. This is an ongoing experiment. I hope someone can learn something from it. I still want to know what horrible thing humanity did in antiquity, which got everyone mad at us - and ready to blast us to the brink of extinction. And why have we lived so irresponsibly, for thousands of years? If we are on a prison planet - the jailers seem to be as bad, or worse, than we are. What the hell is going on in this stupid universe? I'm sorry for being shrill - but I'm really upset with the madness which has been allowed to go on for thousands of years. Why is it so damn hard for everyone to simply be nice and responsible?? I've made my bed with this thread - and now I'm going to attempt to sleep in it - so to speak. I'm once again placing a call into the vast regions of space and cyberspace, for all individuals and factions to join with me in a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka The United States of the Solar System - based upon Responsibility and the U.S. Constitution. In a hundred years, we might be able to further refine things - but I'm thinking this is an excellent place to begin. I really hope we can proceed without Armageddon, and without the death of body and/or soul of anyone. I do wish for justice and the highest ethical standards - but killing and warfare just seems to breed more killing and warfare. Why is it so damn hard for us just to get along??

    I just thought that it would be cool to imagine living on Phobos for a couple of months - and using that as a frame of reference. In other words - I would imagine that I was on Phobos 24/7 for 60 days. I'm frankly not going to spend a lot of time thinking about much beyond this solar system. I really want to have a well-rounded solar system view of things. It might be interesting to imagine living on Phobos, in a subsurface base with a dozen Annunaki, a dozen Greys, and a dozen Dracs!!! They'd probably have me over for dinner. (see the last picture) I know I don't know what the hell I'm talking about - but this might cause one to really look at the solar system in a very different way. I am trying to nurture a Solar System View - rather than a World View. I don't think I'll ever be really friendly - or really hostile - with anyone - regardless of who they are - human or otherwise. I want to really try to be detached and neutral - for the rest of my life. I'd love to travel the world - and the solar system - meeting with various groups - human and otherwise - to try to help turn this war-zone into a paradise. If I'm not going to go to heaven - I will try to bring heaven to this solar system. World Without War. Amen. The Ancient Egyptian Deity said he was sorry he created Dogma -- and when I made a comment about Tall Long-Nosed Greys, he called me a "Commoner"!! What Would Isis, Horus, and Set Say?? What Would Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer Say?? You Still Don't Get This -- Do You?? You Will...

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    "Will You Read to Me from Hostage to the Devil??"
    Carol wrote:The devil baby isn't funny oxy. Crazy Happy

    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    Carol wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:It might not be funny -- but it might qualify as Dark Humour. Perhaps I should start such a thread. No, wait -- my Solar System Governance thread contains a lot of Dark Humour. I have attempted to make deep and troubling subjects somewhat funny and sexy -- for better or worse. Here's something which might properly qualify as Funny. Or - better yet - how 'bout a Sexy Cyborg from Another Dimension (or a Moon-Babe)?! 1. 2. What Would the Queen of Heaven Say??

    Dark humor isn't funny or sexy to me Oxy. One has to have the mind-set for that type of thing. I'm more into subtle double entendre, wholesome, ironic, goofy type of humor. Even the sexy cyborn from another dimension leaves me cold. Do I have to be a guy to appreciate such humor?
    Should one always deal with dark and troubling subjects without humour?? What are the proper guidelines which guide us regarding which lines can and cannot be crossed?? Perhaps I should study the Ethics of Humour. I'm being quite serious at this point. I came to this thread today, to post something I thought was somewhat funny -- but I'm not going to post it now -- in light of what you said regarding Dark Humour. Should surgeons not joke in the operating-room to ease the tension?? Again, I'm really quite serious regarding the Ethics of Humour. This might be an extremely important subject. Often, in cartoons, movies, and television-programs we are made to laugh when people get hurt or killed -- or when something bad happens to them. Think of the Road Runner cartoons. I hint at a lot of things, simply because I can't deal with them directly for any length of time. I rarely laugh in public. I'm way too serious -- probably because I think about serious things most of the time. Going to a Happy-Clappy Church for four years failed to cure my chronic-seriousness. Often, when I attempt to be funny, no one laughs. Perhaps I should take the hints seriously.
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    Carol wrote:Oxy, my mother was cracking jokes on her deathbed. Humor breaks the tension of stressful situations and helps people deal with overwhelming difficulties. Dark humor - the type you're sharing isn't something I find amusing.

    This is all I'm saying. I'm not amused.
    Carol, you've really got me thinking about humour -- dark and otherwise. Perhaps some humour isn't intended to be funny. Perhaps the intention is to make a point. As I keep repeating -- I don't feel comfortable with a lot of what I post. I have intended to create a Posting-Potpourri to represent many points of view. I guess I thought what I just posted was more clever than funny. But really, I am quickly extricating myself from my Contrarian-Confrontive Online Fictional-Character which does not represent who I really am. This has been sort of an experiment -- which I often wish I had never started. Some things are best left alone. The world-leaders who are leading us to hell always seem to mind their manners -- and in a world where appearances are everything -- this seems to work quite nicely. Perhaps I should go and do likewise...
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    Carol wrote:
    orthodoxymoron wrote:
    Carol wrote:Oxy, my mother was cracking jokes on her deathbed. Humor breaks the tension of stressful situations and helps people deal with overwhelming difficulties. Dark humor - the type you're sharing isn't something I find amusing.

    This is all I'm saying. I'm not amused.
    Carol, you've really got me thinking about humour -- . Perhaps I should go and do likewise...

    Sounds like a good plan Oxy. cheers
    Some things are so sad (that they're actually funny). Soren Kierkegaard went to church -- looked around -- and was surprised that no one was laughing. I wonder why?!
    orthodoxymoron wrote:I realize this probably isn't funny or appropriate BUT imagine that infamous "Devil-Baby" piloting a "Killer-Asteroid" toward Earth!!! Hot
    Oh God! Now what are we gonna do??!! What Would Loki Do? (WWLD?) Beware of Completely-Ignorant Male Musicians with Blond Wives (with brown roots) and Two Children (a boy and a girl) -- Who Work in Grocery Stores -- Talk to a Human-Looking God -- Seem to be Stupid and Insane -- and Drive AMC Pacers with California Plates (in Burbank and Glendale) -- with water inside! What are the odds? What would God say? In Dogma 'God' was a female hidden in a male-body, who didn't talk much, and was funny (in more ways than one). In Oh, God! God drives a Taxi. Now that just doesn't seem right, now does it? 1. 2. 3. What if God really is one of us? Now isn't this a rather strange way to 'do' theology? What would Bultmann say? Who is related to Anna? Consider the Ring of Power. Consider the Rose and Cross. What would Bartleby and Rufus say? Jesus Swept? Some say the author of most of the Psalms seems a bit unbalanced, but how does this relate to all of the above? Was King David a Crazy-Faker?? Is orthodoxymoron a Crazy-Faker and/or a Crazy-Maker?? What Would Dorothy Sayers Say?? "Maker of All Things -- Maker of Ill Things??" Pacers on the Highway to Heaven! Just blame Inigo Loyola (or someone like him)!! Justin case you still don't get it, you will, sooner than you think. Are you easily confused? What would Walter say? Both of them. Frankly, this is driving me crazier than I already was, and I was half an inch from the edge. One more thing, don't overlook the Burbank Connection. What would Jordan Maxwell say? Didn't they sell Pacers at Modern Motors in Glendale? Or was it a couple of blocks down Brand? What kind of a crazy puzzle is this? All I want is a perfected humanity in a perfected solar system based upon responsibility. I keep feeling nothing but pressure, scorn, and condemnation. I feel like I'm getting it wrong 24/7. I feel like I'm fiddling while Rome burns. All is NOT well with my soul. This has been a very creepy year, and I really can't take much more of this. I feel like the Last Scion in Dogma. I really need professional help. No, wait. The shrinks are nuttier than we are. Maybe I need an exorcist. My house is probably 'spook central' in more ways than one. The excrementals are quadruple teaming me. "Get thee hence into the bottomless toilet, thou fecal-demons!" One more thing. What is that big building in the distance, shown below? Could this be where the trouble started? "I knew that guy was going to be trouble". What would the 'King of the Girls' say? What would 'Test Tube' say? Enough of This Madness!? Also, notice the car parked behind the Pacer. Is that a 1972 Cadillac?? If I lose my house, maybe I should move to Vegas, go to school, and get a ticket on that special plane to Groom Lake! What would TREEE say? One TREEE. Many Branches. OK, I've gone far enough out on this limb, and I know better than to take the bait, and eat the fruit. One more thing. You would not believe the number of parallels between the John Denver character and me. There's a George Burns parallel, and a 'Dogma' connection as well. There's more. A lot more. I kid you not. Read this paragraph very carefully. This is all sort of spooky, and I suspect that things are going to get a lot worse. This post brings me HUGE Pain and Suffering -- even though it might not seem like it. You have NO idea. I often wonder why I bother with all of this madness -- especially when most of what I post seems to be either ignored or ridiculed. I guess hope springs eternal. Namaste and Godspeed!

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    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Empty Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:23 am

    Consider the United States Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Would this be a logical location for a University of Solar System Studies and Governance campus?? Please talk to me about your thinking on this subject. Imagine the Stargate Command Underground Base as being beneath the U.S. Air Force Academy!! Remember my fictional asteroid trip to 243 Ida?? Galactic Command blacked-out that adventure!! Just kidding!! On the other hand -- I did get scared of that story-line -- even though it was fictional. Anyway, that adventure is now over, and I think I'm going to imagine being at the Air Force Academy with the Underground Base!! The imagination is a wonderful thing!! Unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to talk about it. Just think of "Palmer Joss Meets Colorado Springs!!" Who do you think the real "Anna" and "V" are?? I have a couple of theories!! What if I've finally come home -- in more ways than one?! What about the Denver Airport?! What about the Queen?! You don't suppose?! I'm sorry, but this post signals a new direction for orthodoxymoron -- and I'm going to keep you guessing -- if anyone even gives a damn. I'm so very sorry. I really am. It seems that I am morphing into a Peaceful-Warrior. I feel as if I am preparing to fight for a militaristic yet completely peaceful solar system -- as strange as that sounds. I still like the idea of International and Interplanetary War-Games to keep everyone on their toes -- yet without ever going to war. Do you get what I mean?? What Would King David Say and Do?? I need to stop!! I really like the combination of an academic-setting, a military-setting, an outdoor-setting, and a religious-setting. I love Church-Services, Military-Parades, Air-Shows, and War-Games -- BUT I HATE WAR. I doubt that anyone really understands where I'm going with this thread -- so it will continue to be a very lonely journey -- if I choose to continue it -- or if the PTB allow it to continue. Has the Universe Lost It's Mind and It's Sense of Humour?? God Help Us!! Please do NOT neglect theological and philosophical studies -- even if you don't believe in God. We all need the mental and spiritual exericise. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to continue reading Christ: The Experience of Jesus as Lord by Edward Schillebeeckx. I know I sound like a broken-record (at least I'm consistent) but please read The Gods of Eden by William Bramley -- followed by Trumpet After Trumpet by Erwin R. Gane. This is NOT a fun study -- and I have no idea how accurate any of this is -- but I think you all should consider this sort of thing VERY carefully -- before things get really nasty and chaotic. What if God was overthrown and taken hostage in antiquity?? What if we have been serving False-Gods for thousands of years?? I wish to make it abundantly clear that I do NOT oppose the God-Concept -- but I still don't have enough information and wisdom to make proper determinations -- which is why I continue to call this thread a "Study-Guide". I will lean toward the Representative-Theocracy Concept until the preponderance of evidence points me in another direction. Come -- Let Us Reason Together...

    45. The United States Air Force Academy (USAFA or Air Force)[2] is a military school for officer candidates for the United States Air Force. Its campus is located immediately north of Colorado Springs in El Paso County, Colorado, United States. The Academy's stated mission is "to educate, train, and inspire men and women to become officers of character, motivated to lead the United States Air Force in service to our nation."[3] It is the youngest of the five United States service academies, having graduated its first class in 1959. Graduates of the Academy's four-year program receive a Bachelor of Science degree, and most are commissioned as second lieutenants in the United States Air Force.[4] The Academy is also one of the largest tourist attractions in Colorado, attracting more than a million visitors each year.[3]

    Candidates for admission are judged on their academic achievement, demonstrated leadership, athletics and character. To gain admission, candidates must also pass a fitness test, undergo a thorough medical examination, and secure a nomination, which usually comes from the member of Congress in the candidate's home district. Recent incoming classes have had about 1,200 cadets; historically just under 1,000 of those will graduate.[5] Tuition along with room and board are all paid for by the U.S. government. Cadets receive a monthly stipend, but incur a commitment to serve a number of years of military service after graduation.[6]

    The program at the Academy is guided by the Air Force's core values of "Integrity First, Service Before Self, and Excellence in All We Do",[3] and based on four "pillars of excellence": military training, academics, athletics and character development.[3] In addition to a rigorous military training regimen, cadets also take a broad academic course load with an extensive core curriculum in engineering, humanities, social sciences, basic sciences, military studies and physical education. All cadets participate in either intercollegiate or intramural athletics, and a thorough character development and leadership curriculum provides cadets a basis for future officership. Each of the components of the program is intended to give cadets the skills and knowledge that they will need for success as officers.

    Prior to the Academy's establishment, air power advocates had been pushing for a separate air force academy for decades. As early as 1918, Lieutenant Colonel A.J. Hanlon wrote, "As the Military and Naval Academies are the backbone of the Army and Navy, so must the Aeronautical Academy be the backbone of the Air Service. No service can flourish without some such institution to inculcate into its embryonic officers love of country, proper conception of duty, and highest regard for honor."[7] Other officials expressed similar sentiments. In 1919, Congressman Charles F. Curry introduced legislation providing for an Academy, but concerns about cost, curriculum and location led to its demise.[7] In 1925, air power pioneer General Billy Mitchell testified on Capitol Hill that it was necessary "to have an air academy to form a basis for the permanent backbone of your air service and to attend to the...organizational part of it, very much the same way that West Point does for the Army, or that Annapolis does for the Navy."[7][8] Mitchell's arguments did not gain traction with legislators, and it was not until the late 1940s that the concept of the United States Air Force Academy began to take shape.[7]

    Support for an air academy got a boost with the National Security Act of 1947, which provided for the establishment of a separate Air Force within the United States military. As an initial measure, Secretary of the Air Force W. Stuart Symington negotiated an agreement where up to 25% of West Point and Annapolis graduates could volunteer to receive their commissions in the newly-established Air Force. This was only intended to be a short term fix, however, and disagreements between the services quickly led to the establishment of the Service Academy Board by Secretary of Defense James Forrestal. In January 1950, the Service Academy Board, headed by Dwight D. Eisenhower, then president of Columbia University, concluded that the needs of the Air Force could not be met by the two existing U.S. service academies and that an air force academy should be established.[7]

    Following the recommendation of the Board, Congress passed legislation in 1954 to begin the construction of the Air Force Academy, and President Eisenhower signed it into law on 1 April of that year. The legislation established an advisory commission to determine the site of the new school. Among the panel members were Charles Lindbergh, General Carl Spaatz, and Lieutenant General Hubert R. Harmon, who later became the Academy's first superintendent. The original 582 sites considered were winnowed to three: Alton, Illinois; Lake Geneva, Wisconsin; and the ultimate site at Colorado Springs, Colorado. The Secretary of the Air Force, Harold E. Talbott, announced the winning site on 24 June 1954. Meanwhile, Air Training Command (ATC) began developing a detailed curriculum for the Academy program.[7]

    The early Air Force Academy leadership faced monumental tasks, including the development of an appropriate curriculum, establishment of a faculty, design of a distinctive cadet uniform, oversight of the construction of the permanent site, and the creation of a structure for military and flight training. To establish the foundations of the Academy program, officials ultimately drew from sources within the Air Force, from West Point and Annapolis, and occasionally from outside the military entirely.[citation needed]

    The Academy's permanent site had not yet been completed when the first class entered, so the 306 cadets from the Class of 1959 were sworn in at a temporary site at Lowry Air Force Base, in Denver on 11 July 1955. While at Lowry, they were housed in renovated World War II barracks. There were no upper class cadets to train the new cadets, so the Air Force appointed a cadre of "Air Training Officers" (ATOs) to conduct training. The ATOs were junior officers, many of whom were graduates of West Point, Annapolis and The Citadel. They acted as surrogate upper class cadets until the upper classes could be populated over the next several years.[7] The Academy's dedication ceremony took place on that first day and was broadcast live on national television, with Walter Cronkite covering the event.[7] Arnold W. Braswell, a native of Minden, Louisiana, was commander of the original four cadet squadrons at the academy 1955 to 1958.[9]

    In developing a distinctive uniform for cadets, Secretary of the Air Force Harold Talbott was looking for "imagination" in the design. Talbott initially used military tailors, but was unhappy with their products.[10] As a result, the first classes of cadets wore temporary uniforms while the official uniform was developed. Secretary Talbott then sought out legendary Hollywood director Cecil B. DeMille for help. DeMille's designs, especially his design of the cadet parade uniform, won praise from Air Force and Academy leadership, were ultimately adopted, and are still worn by cadets today.[citation needed]

    The Class of 1959 established many other important traditions that continue until the present. The first class adopted the Cadet Honor Code, and chose the falcon as the Academy's mascot. In 1957, the Air Force cadets marched in the Inaugural Parade of President Dwight Eisenhower in Washington, D.C.. On 29 August 1958, the wing of 1,145 cadets moved to the present site near Colorado Springs, and less than a year later the Academy received accreditation. The first USAFA class graduated and was commissioned on 3 June 1959.[citation needed]

    The Vietnam War was the first war in which Academy graduates fought and died. As such, it had a profound effect on the development of the character of the Academy. Due to the need for more pilots, Academy enrollment grew significantly during this time. The size of the graduating classes went from 217 cadets in 1961 to 745 cadets in 1970.[11] Academy facilities were likewise expanded, and training was modified to better meet the needs of the wartime Air Force. The Jacks Valley field training area was added, the Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE) program was expanded, and light aircraft training started in 1968.[11]

    Many Academy graduates of this era served with distinction in the Vietnam War. F-4 Phantom II pilot Steve Ritchie '64 and F-4 Phantom II weapon systems officer Jeffrey Feinstein '68 each became aces by downing five enemy aircraft in combat.[12][13] One hundred forty-one graduates died in the conflict; thirty-two graduates became prisoners of war. Lance Sijan, '65, fell into both categories and became the first Academy graduate to be awarded the Medal of Honor due to his heroism while evading capture and in captivity.[14] Sijan Hall, one of the cadet dormitories, is named in his memory.

    The effects of the anti-war movement were felt at the Academy as well. Because the Academy grounds are generally open to the public, the Academy often became a site for protests by anti-war demonstrators.[11] Regular demonstrations were held at the Cadet Chapel, and cadets often became the targets of protesters' insults. Other aggravating factors were the presence in the Cadet Wing of cadets motivated to attend the Academy for reasons of draft avoidance, and a number of highly publicized cheating scandals. Morale sometimes suffered as a consequence.[citation needed]

    One of the most significant events in the history of the Academy was the admission of women. On 7 October 1975, President Gerald R. Ford signed legislation permitting women to enter the United States service academies. On 26 June 1976, 157 women entered the Air Force Academy with the Class of 1980. Because there were no female upper class cadets, the Air Training Officer model used in the early years of the Academy was revived, and fifteen young female officers were brought in to help with the integration process. The female cadets were initially segregated from the rest of the Cadet Wing but were fully integrated into their assigned squadrons after their first semester. On 28 May 1980, 97 of the original female cadets completed the program and graduated from the Academy—just over 10% of the graduating class. Women have made up just over 20% of the most recent classes, with the class of 2016 having the highest proportion of any class, 25%.[5]

    Many of the women from those early classes went on to achieve success within the Cadet Wing and after graduation (see list of Academy graduates below). Despite these successes, integration issues were long apparent. Female cadets have had consistently higher dropout rates than men and have left the Air Force in higher numbers than men.[15] Some male cadets also believed that the presence of women had softened the rigors of Academy life and that women received special treatment. According to at least one commentator, as many as ten percent of male Academy graduates in the late 1970s and early 1980s requested Army commissions, in part because of controversy over such issues.[16] The Class of 1979, the last all-male class, went so far as to unofficially label themselves "LCWB," or "Last Class With Balls" an abbreviation that appeared on many of their class-specific items and still appears at reunions, sporting events and other Academy alumni functions.[17][18]

    The campus of the Academy covers 18,500 acres (73 km²) on the east side of the Rampart Range of the Rocky Mountains, just north of Colorado Springs. Its altitude is normally given as 7,258 feet (2,212 m) above sea-level, which is the elevation of the cadet area. The Academy was designed by Skidmore, Owings and Merrill (SOM) and lead architect Walter Netsch. SOM partner John O. Merrill moved from Chicago to a Colorado Springs field office to oversee the construction and to act as a spokesman for the project.[19]

    The most controversial aspect of the SOM-designed Air Force Academy was its chapel.[20] It was designed by SOM architect Walter Netsch, who at one point was prepared to abandon the design;[21] but the accordion-like structure is acknowledged as an iconic symbol of the academy campus.

    The buildings in the Cadet Area were designed in a distinct, modernist style, and make extensive use of aluminum on building exteriors, suggesting the outer skin of aircraft or spacecraft.[22] On 1 April 2004, fifty years after Congress authorized the building of the Academy, the Cadet Area at the Academy was designated a National Historic Landmark.[23][24]

    The main buildings in the Cadet Area are set around a large, square pavilion known as ‘‘the Terrazzo’‘. Most recognizable is the 17-spired[25] Cadet Chapel. The subject of controversy when it was first built, it is now considered among the most prominent examples of modern American academic architecture. Other buildings on the Terrazzo include Vandenberg Hall and Sijan Hall, the two dormitories; Mitchell Hall, the cadet dining facility; and Fairchild Hall, the main academic building, which houses academic classrooms, laboratories, research facilities, faculty offices and the Robert F. McDermott Library.

    The Aeronautics Research Center (also known as the "Aero Lab") contains numerous aeronautical research facilities, including transonic, subsonic, low speed, and cascade wind tunnels; engine and rocket test cells; and simulators.[26] The Consolidated Education and Training Facility (CETF) was built in 1997 as an annex to Fairchild Hall. It contains chemistry and biology classrooms and labs, medical and dental clinics, and civil engineering and astronautics laboratories. The Cadet Area also contains an observatory and a planetarium for academic use and navigation training.

    The cadet social center is Arnold Hall, located just outside the Cadet Area, which houses a 3000-seat theater, a ballroom, a number of lounges, and dining and recreation facilities for cadets and visitors. Harmon Hall is the primary administration building, which houses the offices of the Superintendent and the Superintendent's staff.

    The Cadet Area also contains extensive facilities for use by cadets participating in intercollegiate athletics, intramural athletics, physical education classes and other physical training. Set amid numerous outdoor athletic fields are the ‘‘Cadet Gymnasium’‘ and the Cadet Fieldhouse. The Fieldhouse is the home to Clune Arena, the ice hockey rink and an indoor track, which doubles as an indoor practice facility for a number of sports. Falcon Stadium, located outside of the Cadet Area, is the football field and site of the graduation ceremonies.[3]

    Many displays around the Cadet Area commemorate heroes and air power pioneers, and serve as an inspiration to cadets. The ‘‘War Memorial’‘, a black marble wall located just under the flagpole on the Terrazzo, is etched with the names of Academy graduates who have been killed in combat. The ‘‘Honor Wall,’‘ overlooking the Terrazzo, is inscribed with the Cadet Honor Code: "We will not lie, steal, or cheat, nor tolerate among us anyone who does." Just under the Cadet Chapel, the ‘‘Class Wall’‘ bears the crests[dead link] of each of the Academy's graduating classes. The crest of the current first (senior) class is displayed in the center position. Another display often used as a symbol of the Academy, the ‘‘Eagle and Fledglings Statue’‘ was given as a gift to the Academy in 1958 by the personnel of Air Training Command. It contains the inscription by Austin Dusty Miller, "Man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge." Static air- and spacecraft displays on the Academy grounds include an F-4, F-15, F-16 and F-105 on the Terrazzo; a B-52 by the North Gate; a T-38 and A-10 at the airfield; an F-100 by the preparatory school; a SV-5J lifting body next to the aeronautics laboratory; and a Minuteman III missile in front of the Fieldhouse. The Minuteman III was removed in August 2008 due to rusting and other internal damage.[citation needed]

    The ‘‘Core Values Ramp’‘ (formerly known as the ‘’Bring Me Men Ramp’’) leads down from the main Terrazzo level toward the parade field. On in-processing day, new cadets arrive at the base of the ramp and start their transition into military and Academy life by ascending the ramp to the Terrazzo. From 1964 to 2004, the portal at the base of the ramp was inscribed with the words ’’Bring me men... ’’ taken from the poem, "The Coming American," by Samuel Walter Foss. In a controversial move following the 2003 sexual assault scandal, the words "Bring me men..." were taken down and replaced with the Academy's (later adopted as the Air Force's) core values: "Integrity first, service before self, and excellence in all we do."[3]

    Other locations on campus serve support roles for cadet training and other base functions. Doolittle Hall is the headquarters of the Academy's Association of Graduates and also serves as the initial reception point for new cadets arriving for Basic Cadet Training. It is named after General Jimmy Doolittle. The Goldwater Visitor Center, named after longtime proponent of the Academy United States Senator Barry Goldwater, is the focal point for family, friends and tourists visiting the Academy grounds. The Academy Airfield is used for training cadets in airmanship courses, including parachute training, soaring and powered flight. Interment at the ’‘Academy Cemetery’‘ is limited to Academy cadets and graduates, certain senior officers, certain Academy staff members, and certain other family members. Air power notables Carl Spaatz, Curtis E. LeMay and Robin Olds, are interred here.[citation needed]

    The United States Air Force Academy Preparatory School (usually referred to as the "Prep School") is a program offered to selected individuals who were not able to obtain appointments directly to the Academy. The program involves intense academic preparation (particularly in English, math and science), along with athletic and military training, meant to prepare the students for appointment to the Academy. A high percentage of USAFA Preparatory School students (known as "Preppies") earn appointments to the Academy following their year at the Prep School.[citation needed]

    The Cadet Honor Code is the cornerstone of a cadet's professional training and development – the minimum standard of ethical conduct that cadets expect of themselves and their fellow cadets. The Honor Code was developed and adopted by the Class of 1959, the first class to graduate from the Academy and has been handed down to every subsequent class.[27][28] The Code itself is simple:

    We will not lie, steal, or cheat, nor tolerate among us anyone who does. [27]

    In 1984, the Cadet Wing voted to add an "Honor Oath," which was to be taken by all cadets. The oath is administered to fourth class cadets (freshmen) when they are formally accepted into the Wing at the conclusion of Basic Cadet Training.[28] The oath remains unchanged since its adoption in 1984 and consists of a statement of the code, followed by a resolution to live honorably:

    We will not lie, steal or cheat, nor tolerate among us anyone who does. Furthermore, I resolve to do my duty and to live honorably, so help me God. — "Honor Code Handbook"

    Cadets are considered the "guardians and stewards" of the Code. Cadet honor representatives are chosen by senior leadership, and oversee the honor system by conducting education classes and investigating suspected honor violations. Cadets throughout the Wing are expected to sit on Honor Boards as juries that determine whether their fellow cadets violated the code. Cadets also recommend sanctions for violations. The presumed sanction for an honor violation is disenrollment, but mitigating factors may result in the violator being placed in a probationary status for some period of time. This "honor probation" is usually only reserved for cadets in their first two years at the Academy.[citation needed]

    To reinforce the importance of honor, character and integrity to future officers, cadets are given an extensive character and leadership curriculum. The Academy's Center for Character and Leadership Development provides classroom, seminar, workshop and experiential-based learning programs to all cadets, beginning when they enter Basic Cadet Training and continuing each year through their last semester at the Academy. The Center's programs, when coupled with the Honor Code and Honor System, establish a foundation for the "leaders of character" that the Academy aspires to produce.[citation needed]

    The Academy's organization is unusual in a number of respects. Because it is primarily a military unit, much of the Academy's structure is set up like that of any other Air Force Base. This is particularly true of the non-cadet units—most assigned to the 10th Air Base Wing—that provide base services such as security, communications, and engineering. Because the Academy is also a university, however, the organization of the faculty and the Cadet Wing have some aspects that are more similar to the faculty and student body at a civilian college.

    The student body of the Academy is known as the Cadet Wing. The students, called "cadets", are divided into four classes, based on their year in school, much like a civilian college. They are not referred to as freshmen, sophomores, juniors and seniors, however, but as fourth-, third-, second- and first class cadets, respectively. Fourth class cadets (freshmen) are sometimes referred to as "doolies," a term derived from the Greek word δουλος ("doulos") meaning "slave" or "servant."[29] Members of the three lower classes are also referred to as "4 degrees," "3 degrees" or "2 degrees" based on their class.[30] First-class cadets (seniors) are referred to as "firsties." In the military structure of the Cadet Wing, first class cadets hold the positions of cadet officers, second class cadets act as the cadet non-commissioned officers and third class cadets represent the cadet junior non-commissioned officers.[citation needed]

    The Cadet Wing is divided into four groups, of ten cadet squadrons each. Each cadet squadron consists of about 110 cadets, roughly evenly distributed among the four classes. Selected first-, second- and third-class cadets hold leadership, operational and support jobs at the squadron, group and wing levels. Cadets live, march and eat meals with members of their squadrons. Military training and intramural athletics are conducted by squadron as well. Each cadet squadron and cadet group is supervised by a specially selected active duty officer called an Air Officer Commanding (AOC). In the case of a cadet squadron, the AOC is normally an active duty Air Force major. For a cadet group, the AOC is normally an active-duty lieutenant colonel. These officers have command authority over the cadets, counsel cadets on leadership and military career issues, oversee military training and serve as role models for the future officers.[citation needed]

    The Superintendent of the Academy is the commander and senior officer. The position of Superintendent is normally held by an active-duty lieutenant general. The superintendent's role is roughly similar to that of the president of a civilian university. As such, the Superintendent oversees all aspects of the Academy, including military training, academics, athletics, admissions and the administration of the base. The Academy is a Direct Reporting Unit within the Air Force, so the Superintendent reports directly to the Air Force Chief of Staff.[citation needed]

    Those reporting to the Superintendent include the Dean of the Faculty and Commandant of Cadets, each of whom typically holds the rank of brigadier general, as well as the Director of Athletics, the Commander of the 10th Air Base Wing and the Commander of the Prep School, each of whom typically holds the rank of colonel. The 10th Air Base Wing provides all base support functions that exist at other air force bases, including civil engineering, communications, medical support, personnel, administration, security and base services. The Preparatory School provides an academic, athletic and military program for qualified young men and women who may need certain additional preparation prior to acceptance to the Academy. All flying programs at the Academy are run by the 306th Flying Training Group, which reports to the Air Education and Training Command, ensuring uniformity of flight training with the rest of the Air Force.[citation needed]

    Congressional oversight of the Academy is exercised through a Board of Visitors, established under Title 10, United States Code, Section 9355. The Board inquires into the morale, discipline, curriculum, instruction, physical equipment, fiscal affairs, academic methods and other matters relating to the Academy. The Board meets at least four times per year and prepares semi-annual reports containing its views and recommendations submitted concurrently to the Secretary of Defense, the Senate Armed Services Committee, and the House Armed Services Committee. The 15 members of the board are variously appointed by the President of the United States, the Vice President, the Senate and House Armed Services Committees and the Speaker of the House of Representatives. Since 2006, the Board has been required to include at least two Academy graduates. In July 2009, Speaker Nancy Pelosi appointed Colorado Congressman Jared Polis to the BOV, the first openly gay person to serve on a service academy’s advisory board.[31]

    Cadets' military training occurs throughout their time at the Academy, but is especially intense during their four summers. The first military experience for new cadets (called "basic cadets") occurs during the six weeks of Basic Cadet Training (BCT), in the summer before their fourth class (freshman) year. During BCT, also known as "beast," cadets learn the fundamentals of military and Academy life under the leadership of a cadre of first and second class cadets.[32] Basic cadets learn military customs and courtesies, proper wear of the uniform, drill and ceremony, and study military knowledge and undergo a rigorous physical training program. During the second half of BCT, basic cadets march to Jacks Valley, where they complete the program in a field encampment environment. Upon completion of BCT, basic cadets receive their fourth-class shoulder boards, take the Honor Oath and are formally accepted as members of the Cadet Wing.[citation needed]

    The fourth-class (freshman) year is traditionally the most difficult at the Academy, militarily. In addition to their full academic course loads, heavy demands are placed on fourth class cadets outside of class. Fourth class cadets are expected to learn an extensive amount of military and Academy-related knowledge and have significant restrictions placed on their movement and actions—traversing the Cadet Area only by approved routes (including staying on the marble "strips" on the Terrazzo) and interacting with upper class cadets using a very specific decorum. The fourth class year ends with "Recognition," a physically and mentally demanding several-day event which culminates in the award of the Prop and Wings insignia to the fourth class cadets, signifying their ascension to the ranks of upper class cadets. After Recognition, the stringent rules of the fourth class year are relaxed.[citation needed]

    After the first year, cadets have more options for summer military training. Between their fourth and third class years, cadets undergo training in Air Force operations in a deployed environment (called "Global Engagement") and may participate in flying gliders or free-fall parachute training. From the late 1960s until the mid-1990s, cadets also completed SERE training in the Jacks Valley complex between their fourth- and third-class years. This program was replaced with Combat Survival Training (CST) in 1995 and done away with entirely in 2005. In the summer of 2008, the CST program was reintroduced and now includes survival, evasion, and resistance training portions. During their last two summers, cadets may serve as BCT cadre, travel to active duty Air Force bases and participate in a variety of other research, aviation and leadership programs. They may also be able to take courses offered by other military services, such as the U.S. Army's Airborne School at Fort Benning, Georgia, or the Air Assault School, at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. During the academic year, all cadets take formal classes in military theory, operations and leadership.

    The Eagle and Fledglings Statue at the south end of the Air Gardens is inscribed with the quote, "Man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge"

    The Air Force Academy is an accredited four-year university offering Bachelor's degrees in a variety of subjects. Active-duty Air Force officers make up approximately 70 percent of the faculty, with the balance long-term civilian professors, visiting professors from civilian universities and instructors from other U.S. and allied foreign military services. In recent years, civilians have become a growing portion of senior faculty.

    Every Dean of the Faculty (equivalent to a Provost at most universities) has always been an active-duty brigadier general, although technically, a civilian may hold the position. The Dean, the Vice Dean, and each academic department chair hold the academic rank of Permanent Professor. Permanent Professors are nominated by the President of the United States and approved by the Senate, and can serve until age 64.

    All graduates receive a Bachelor of Science degree, regardless of major, because of the technical content of the core requirements. Cadets may choose from a variety of majors, including engineering, the basic sciences, social sciences and humanities, as well as in a variety of divisional or inter-disciplinary subjects. The academic program has an extensive core curriculum, in which all cadets take required courses in the sciences, engineering, social sciences, humanities, military studies and physical education. Approximately sixty percent of a cadet's course load is mandated by the core curriculum. As a result, most of a cadet's first two years are spent in core classes. During the third and fourth years, cadets have more flexibility to focus in their major areas of study, but the core requirements are still significant.

    Traditionally, the academic program at the Air Force Academy (as with military academies in general) has focused heavily on science and engineering, with the idea that many graduates would be expected to manage complex air, space and information technology systems. As a result, the Academy's engineering programs have traditionally been ranked highly. Over time, however, the Academy broadened its humanities offerings. About 55% of cadets typically select majors in non-technical disciplines.[citation needed]

    Externally funded research at the Air Force Academy has been a large and growing part of the technical majors. Air Force has ranked highest of all undergraduate-only universities in federally-funded research as reported by the National Science Foundation, surpassing $60 million in 2010.[citation needed] Many cadets are involved in research via their major, coordinated in more than a dozen Academy research centers, including the Institute for Information Technology Applications, the Institute for National Security Studies, the Air Force Humanities Institute, the Eisenhower Center for Space and Defense Studies, the Life Sciences Research Center, the Academy Center for Physics Education Research, among others.

    All cadets at the Academy take part in the school's extensive athletic program. The program is designed to enhance the physical conditioning of all cadets, to develop the physical skills necessary for officership, to teach leadership in a competitive environment and to build character.[33] The primary elements of the athletic program are intercollegiate athletics, intramural athletics, physical education, and the physical fitness tests.

    Cadets are required to take physical education courses in each of their four years at the Academy. The classes cover a wide range of activities: Swimming and water survival build confidence while teaching important survival skills. Combative sports such as boxing, wrestling, judo and unarmed combat build confidence, teach controlled aggression and develop physical fitness. Cadets also take classes in team sports such as basketball and soccer, in lifetime sports such as tennis and golf and on the physiology of exercise.[citation needed]

    Each semester, cadets must pass two athletic fitness tests: a 1.5 mi (2.4 km) run to measure aerobic fitness, and a 15-minute, 5-event, physical fitness test consisting of pull-ups, a standing long jump, sit-ups, push-ups and a 600 yd (550 m) sprint. Failure to pass a fitness test usually results in the cadet being assigned to reconditioning until he can pass the test. Repeated failures can lead to disenrollment.[citation needed]

    All cadets are expected to compete in intramural athletics for their entire time at the Academy, unless they are on-season for intercollegiate athletics. Intramural sports put cadet squadrons against one another in many sports, including basketball, cross-country, flag football, ice hockey, racquetball, flickerball, rugby union, boxing, soccer, mountain biking, softball, team handball, tennis, Ultimate, wallyball and volleyball. Winning the Wing Championship in a given sport is a particular source of pride for a cadet squadron.[citation needed]

    The Academy's intercollegiate program has 17 men's and 10 women's NCAA sanctioned teams, nicknamed the ‘‘Falcons.’‘[33] Men's teams compete in football, baseball, basketball, ice hockey, cross-country, fencing, golf, gymnastics, indoor and outdoor track, lacrosse, rifle, soccer, swimming and diving, tennis, water polo and wrestling. Women's teams include basketball, cross-country, fencing, gymnastics, indoor and outdoor track, swimming and diving, soccer, tennis and volleyball. In addition, the Academy also sponsors two non-NCAA programs: cheerleading and boxing. The Academy also has several club sports, such as rugby, that compete intercollegiately.[citation needed]

    The men's and women's programs compete in NCAA's Division I, with the football team competing in Division I FBS. Most teams are in the Mountain West Conference; however, the gymnastics teams and men's soccer teams compete in the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation; the men's hockey team competes in Atlantic Hockey and the water polo team competes in the Western Water Polo Association. The men's boxing team competes in the National Collegiate Boxing Association. The men's lacrosse team competes in the ECAC Lacrosse League. For a number of years, only the men's teams competed in Division I. Women's teams competed in Division II and were once members of the Continental Divide Conference, then the Colorado Athletic Conference. With new NCAA legislation, beginning in 1996, women's teams also competed in Division I.[citation needed]

    Air Force has traditional service academy rivalries with Navy and Army. The three service academies compete for the Commander-in-Chief's Trophy in football each year. Air Force Falcons football has had the best showing of the three, winning the trophy 18 of its 34 years. The Academy also has an in-state rivalry with Colorado State University, which is located in Fort Collins and is a fellow member of the Mountain West Conference.[citation needed]

    The boxing team, led for 31 years by Coach Ed Weichers, has won 18 national championships.[34] The Academy's men's and women's rugby teams have each won multiple national championships and the women's side recently had two players selected for the United States national team.[35] The football team has played in 17 bowl games and the basketball team has had strong showings in the last several years, qualifying for the NCAA tournament and, most recently, making the final four of the 2007 NIT Tournament.[36] The men's ice hockey team won the last two Atlantic Hockey conference tournaments, made the first ever appearance by a service academy in the NCAA hockey tournament in 2007, and made a repeat appearance in 2008. The Air Force Academy's Mens Hockey team recently lost in the 'Elite Eight' of hockey in double overtime. This marked the farthest they had gone in the post-season in school history and the longest an Atlantic Hockey Association team has made it into the post-season.[37]

    To be eligible to enter the Academy, a candidate must:[38][39]

    Be a citizen of the United States (unless nominated by an official of a country invited by the Department of Defense)[40]
    Be unmarried with no dependents
    Be of good moral character
    Be at least 17, but less than 23 years of age by 1 July of the year of entry
    Meet high leadership, academic, physical and medical standards

    In addition to the normal application process, all candidates must secure a nomination to the Academy, normally from a U.S. Senator or U.S. Representative. Each member of Congress and the Vice President can have five appointees attending the Air Force Academy at any time. The process for obtaining a congressional nomination is not political and candidates do not have to know their senator or representative to secure a nomination. Additional nomination slots are available for children of career military personnel, children of disabled veterans or veterans who were killed in action, or children of Medal of Honor recipients. The admissions process is a lengthy one and applicants usually begin the paperwork during the second semester of their junior year of high school.[41]

    The Prop and Wings insignia of the Air Service (1918–26), Air Corps (1926–41), and Army Air Forces (1941–47) became the insignia of upperclass cadets at the Air Force Academy beginning with the first class, 1959. The insignia is given to fourth class (freshmen) cadets at the Recognition Ceremony near the end of their first year rite of passage. The standard insignia uses the design of the Air Corps Prop and Wings, except that it is all silver instead of the gold wings and silver prop of the earlier design. Cadets who have ancestors who served in the Air Service, Air Corps, or Army Air Forces, or those who are direct descendants of Air Force Academy graduates, are eligible to wear the gold wings and silver prop design.

    The Air Force Academy cadet sabre is carried by first class (senior) cadets in command positions in the Cadet Wing. All graduates are normally entitled to own no more than two sabres: one for personal use and one to be given as a gift. The Plaque and Sabre Award is the highest award given by the Cadet Wing to dignitaries and other honorees.

    The American college tradition of the class ring began with the class of 1835 at the U.S. Military Academy. From there, it spread to the U.S. Naval Academy in the class of 1869.[42] The Air Force Academy continued the tradition, beginning with the first class, 1959, and so is the only service academy to have had class rings for every class since its founding. The Air Force ring is distinctive for being white gold instead of the yellow gold used at the other academies. Each class designs its own class crest; the only requirements being that each crest include all the elements on the Class of 1959's crest: the class number, the class year, the Polaris star, and the eagle. One side of the ring bears the academy crest, while the other side bears the class crest; the center bezel bears the words United States Air Force Academy. Cadets choose their own stones for the center of the ring. The rings are received at the Ring Dance at the beginning of the Graduation Week festivities for the class ahead of the ring recipients. The rings traditionally are placed in glasses of champagne and are caught in the teeth following a toast. During the cadet's first class (senior) year, the ring is worn with the class crest facing the wearer; following graduation, the ring is turned so that the academy's crest faces away from the wearer. The rings of all the academies were originally designed to be worn on the left hand, so that the wearer reads the name of the academy on the bezel while a cadet or midshipman and others can read it after graduation, the rings are now worn on either hand. The Academy's Association of Graduates (AOG) accepts rings of deceased graduates which are melted down to form an ingot of white gold from which a portion of all future rings are made.[43] Both the academy's Association of Graduates and the Academy Library maintain displays of class rings.

    In an interview with Colorado Springs Independent reporter Pam Zubeck on 16 December 2010, Dean of Faculty, Brigadier General Dana Born stated that "All the instructors we have, have graduate degrees in the areas they're teaching or a related field."[44] In concluding a year-long investigation of United States Air Force Academy faculty credentials, the Air Force Inspector General stated in a letter dated, 10 February 2012, that "Brig. Gen. Born was negligent in making an absolute statement to a local newspaper regarding the military faculty's specific academic credentials as they related to teaching disciplines without first confirming the accuracy of the supporting data." On 17 February 2012, the Pentagon released a statement: "Commanders are given broad latitude to administer punishment appropriate with the offense. United States Air Force Academy [Superintendent] Lieutenant General Gould has reviewed the [Air Force Inspector General] report and will be the officer who decides what, if any, command action will be taken."[45]

    Born was deposed on 9 December 2011, as a respondent in an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission case of alleged disability discrimination filed by former United States Air Force Academy economics professor David Mullin, who was also a client of the U.S. Civil Rights organization, Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF). During the deposition, Born was asked if she ordered a subordinate, Colonel Thomas Drohan, to conduct counter-insurgency analysis against MRFF and its clients. Under oath she denied that she did. Mullin's lead attorney, Robert Eye, wrote, on both 1 and 29 February, letters to Secretary of the Air Force Michael Donley requesting with acknowledgement a formal investigation into the matter. On 15 March 2012, Eye received a response from Air Force Deputy General Counsel W. Kipling At Lee Jr.. He said it would not be appropriate to comment about the status of any investigation, but “I can advise you that the allegations . . . are being given appropriate consideration.”[46]

    The first Honor scandal broke in 1965, when a resigning cadet reported knowing of more than 100 cadets who had been involved in a cheating ring. One hundred and nine cadets were ultimately expelled. Cheating scandals plagued the Academy again in 1967, 1972, 1984, 2004[47] and 2007.[48] Following each of these events, the Academy thoroughly examined the etiology of the mass cheating in addition to alleged excessive pressures that the academic system at the time placed on cadets and made changes in attempts to reduce the opportunities for future incidents.

    The sexual assault scandal that broke in 2003 forced the Academy to look more closely at how effectively women had been integrated into cadet life. Following the scandal and rising concerns about sexual assault throughout the U.S. military, the Department of Defense established a task force to investigate sexual harassment and assault at each of the United States service academies. The report also revealed 92 incidents of reported sexual assault.[49] At the same time, the Academy implemented programs to combat sexual assault, harassment and gender bias. The new programs actively encourage prompt sexual assault reporting. The Academy's decisive actions of zero tolerance were praised by officials and experts.[50]

    Following the 2003 crisis, the Department of Defense directed its attention to the problem of sexual harassment and assault at the military academies. This program has been successful although during the school year 2010–11 there were increased reports of sexual assault at the academy; however, one goal of the program is increased reporting.[51] There have been several attempts to prosecute cadets for rape since 2003, but none have been successful with claims of consent coupled with a lack of forensic evidence. On 5 January 2012 rape charges were preferred against cadets in three unrelated cases.[52]

    In 2005, allegations surfaced that some Evangelical Christian cadets and staff were effectively engaging in religious proselytizing at the Academy.[53] These allegations, along with concerns over how the Air Force handles other religious issues, prompted Academy graduate Michael L. Weinstein to file a lawsuit against the Air Force.[54][55] An Air Force panel investigated the accusations and issued a report on 22 June 2005.[56] The panel's investigation found a "religious climate that does not involve overt religious discrimination, but a failure to fully accommodate all members’ needs and a lack of awareness over where the line is drawn between permissible and impermissible expression of beliefs." Evidence discovered during the investigation included antisemitic remarks, official sponsorship of a showing of the film The Passion of the Christ and a locker room banner that said academy athletes played for "Team Jesus." In response to the panel's findings, the Air Force released new guidelines to discourage public prayers at official events or meetings and to facilitate worship by non-Christian religions.[57]

    In 2010 the academy set up an outdoor worship area for cadets following Wicca, Neo-Druidism, or other earth-based religions to practice their faiths.[58][59]

    A 2010 survey found that 41 percent of academy cadets who identified themselves as non-Christian reported they were subjected to unwanted religious proselytizing at least once or twice last year at the school. The survey's results, however, showed that the number of cadets who felt pressured to join in religious activities had declined from previous years. Colorado congressman Mike Coffman criticized the academy for resisting calls to release details of the survey's results.[60][61]

    In 2012, 66 House Republicans complained about policies set in place the last September to curtail requirements to attend religious events.[62]

    1.^ [1]
    2.^ Unlike the United States Military Academy at West Point, the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis and the United States Merchant Marine Academy at Kings Point, New York, which are often referred to by their respective city names, the Air Force Academy is not normally referred to as "Colorado Springs."
    3.^ a b c d e f "A Quick Look at the U.S. Air Force Academy, ,"USAFA Fact Sheet, May 2008
    4.^ Since 1959, cadets have also been able to "cross-commission" into the Army, Navy or Marine Corps, and each year a small number of graduates does so, usually in a one-for-one "trade" with similarly inclined cadets at the other service academies. Foreign cadets and graduates who have lost their medical qualification for commissioning while at the Academy (a small number each year) may receive a degree but are not commissioned.
    5.^ a b Air Force Academy Admissions Web site, last visited 22 Mar 2007.[dead link]
    6.^ The commitment is normally five years of active duty and three years of reserves, although it has varied. The obligation attaches on the first day of a cadet's second class (junior) year, and non-graduates after that point are expected to fulfill their obligations in enlisted service.
    7.^ a b c d e f g h Steven A. Simon, "A Half-Century of History," Fifty Years of Excellence: Building Leaders of Character for the Nation, 2004.
    8.^ M. Hamlin Cannon and Henry S. Fellerman, Quest for an Air Force Academy, 1974. (ASIN: B00071G1T6)
    9.^ "Arnold W. Braswell". Retrieved 1 February 2012.
    10.^ Bill Radford, "A Digger, a Director and a Practical Joker," (Colorado Springs) Gazette, USAF Academy 50th Anniversary Edition, Spring 2004.
    11.^ a b c Bill McKeown, "Cadets Learned True Meaning of Service During Vietnam War," (Colorado Springs) Gazette, USAF Academy 50th Anniversary Edition, Spring 2004.
    12.^ USAF Bio: Richard S. Ritchie, available at[dead link]
    13.^ Rebecca Grant, "The Missing Aces," Air Force Magazine, Sep. 2004.[dead link]
    14.^ "''Air Force Museum Fact Sheet: Capt. Lance P. Sijan,''". Retrieved 2012-02-20.
    15.^ Pam Zubeck, Women, Blacks Face Different Obstacles," (Colorado Springs) Gazette, USAF Academy 50th Anniversary Celebration, Spring 2004.
    16.^ Brian Mitchell, Women in the Military: Flirting With Disaster, 1998. (ISBN 978-0895263766)
    17.^ USAFA Class of '79. Alumni Home Page. LCWB
    18.^ Atif Z. Qadir, The Tech. Volume 123, Issue 13, 18 March 2003. Rape in the Air Force.
    19.^ Nauman, Robert Allen. (2004). On the Wings of Modernism: the United States Air Force Academy, pp. 72–80. at Google Books
    20.^ Wilkes, Joseph A. and Robert T. Packard. (1989). Encyclopedia of Architecture: Design, Engineering & Construction, p. 454.
    21.^ "Radical Design Dropped For Air Academy Chapel," New York Times. 4 July 1955.
    22.^ Particularly in the early days, cadets at the other service academies teasingly referred to USAFA as "Alcoa U" or "Aluminum U."
    23.^ "United States Air Force Academy, Cadet Area". National Historic Landmark summary listing. National Park Service. Retrieved 16 October 2007.
    24.^ John H. Sprinkle, Ed., "National Historic Landmark Nomination Study, US Air Force Academy ", National Park Service, 1 April 2004
    25.^ Although the number of spires is only significant to the architectural proportions of the chapel, cadets and chaplains sometimes joke that the seventeen spires represent the "12 Apostles and the 5 Chiefs of Staff." The original reference was to the Chiefs of Staff of the four major branches of the US armed services and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. With the addition of a Vice Chairman in the late 1980s changing the number to six, the reference came to be thought of as the five Air Force Chiefs of Staff in the USAF's history up until the completion of the chapel in 1963.
    26.^ "USAFA Department of Aeronautics, Aero Research Center". 30 March 2008. Retrieved 2012-02-20.
    27.^ a b "The Honor Code, " USAFA Fact Sheet, April 2009, Retrieved 3 April 2010
    28.^ a b "Honor Code Reference Handbook- Volume II – The Honor System ", (646 KB) USAFA, August 2008, Retrieved 3 April 2010 – Although the original code adopted was identical to West Point's Honor Code ("We will not lie, cheat or steal, or tolerate among us those who do."), it was modified slightly in 1960–61 to its current wording.
    29.^ Although the official literature from the Academy still uses the word "doolie" extensively, the term was never particularly popular with cadets and fell into disuse. The term used more often is "SMACK" — originally a nonspecific derogatory term, but now a backronym for "Soldier Minus Ability Courage and Knowledge" or "Soldier Minus Ability Coordination and Knowledge." Other terms for fourth class cadets include "Squat," "Wad," "Tool," and "Wedge" (the simplest tool.) Don Hall, Class of '76, created the popular character "Waldo F. Dumbsquat, whose Svejk-like innocence and good intentions overcome his abysmal ineptitude.
    30.^ The "degree" terminology comes from a generic ordinal indicator used for classes in the early years of the Academy – for example, "2°" was read as "second class." In recent years, "degree" has been further shortened to "dig", as in "4 digs", "3 digs", etc.
    31.^ Wyatt, Kristen (24 July 2009). "First openly gay member, U.S. Rep. Jared Polis, joins Air Force Academy board". Associated Press. Retrieved 2009-09-15. "“Polis said he expects that Congress will start debating as soon as this fall a repeal of the 1993 ban on gay service members.”"
    32.^ Idiots Guide to Careers in the Military. Google Books. Retrieved 2012-02-20.
    33.^ a b Athletics, USAFA Fact Sheet, April 2006[dead link]
    34.^ "Profile: Coach Ed Weichers, USAFA Sports Site". Retrieved 2012-02-20.
    35.^ ZRFC History, last visited 30 Mar 2007[dead link]
    36.^ ""Comeback Effort Falls Just Short, 68–67," AP Wire Story". 27 March 2007. Retrieved 2012-02-20.
    37.^ "David Albright, "Gophers Earn NCAA Hockey No. 1 Overall Seed,", accessed Apr. 9, 2007". ESPN. 18 March 2007. Retrieved 2012-02-20.
    38.^ USAFA Admissions Eligibility[dead link]
    39.^ U.S. Air Force Academy Admissions Philosophy, USAFA Fact Sheet, April 2006.[dead link]
    40.^ USAFA Admissions: International Student Guidelines[dead link]
    41.^ []
    42.^ "Commissioning Week Traditions". Retrieved 2011-12-10.
    43.^ [2]
    44.^ "Degrees of Separation, December 16, 2010". Colorado Springs Independent. Retrieved 2012-02-22.
    45.^ "UPDATE: Academy's Born and Fullerton found "negligent" , February 17, 2012". Colorado Springs Independent. Retrieved 2012-02-22.
    46.^ "UPDATE: It’s been 60 days. Do you know where your investigation is?, Mary 22 2012". Retrieved 2012-09-21.
    47.^ Erin Emery, 19 AFA Cadets Admit Cheating, Denver Post, 8 Feb. 2007 In April 2004, cadets were given a military knowledge test over the computer in cadet dorms. An estimated 265 cadets were questioned for cheating then, when academy officials noticed it took only three minutes for cadets to take a 25-question test. Several cadets resigned during the investigation.
    48.^ Chase Squires, "Air Force Academy Investigates Cheating," ABC News,7 February 2007.[dead link] Approximately 28 freshmen cadets, including 19 varsity athletes, were investigated for possible cheating on a military knowledge test. The answers were reportedly posted on a social-networking Web site.
    49.^ "Report of the Defense Task Force on Sexual Assault and Violence at the Service Academies, June 2005" (PDF). Retrieved 2012-02-20.
    50.^ "David Kassabian, "Experts Praise AFA's Steps Against Sex Assault," ''Aimpoints,'' Oct. 7, 2005". 7 October 2005. Retrieved 2012-02-20.
    51.^ "Department of Defense Annual Report on Sexual Harassment and Violence at the Military Service Academies Academic Program Year 2010–2011: Report to the Committee on Armed Services of the Senate and the Committee on Armed Services of the House of Representatives". United States Department of Defense. 21 October 2011. Retrieved 27 December 2011. "The 65 reports represent an increase from the 41 reports made in APY 09-10. The Department does not have the ability to conclusively identify the reasons for this increase in reporting behavior. However, in prior years’ assessments, the Department identified steps the academies could take to encourage more victims to report. Some of the increased reporting of sexual assault may be attributed to these efforts as well as many other factors."
    52.^ Tom Roeder (5 January 2012). "3 AFA cadets charged with rape". The Colorado Springs Gazette. Retrieved 5 January 2012.
    53.^ "Zealots at the Air Force Academy, editorial, ''New York Times,'' Jun. 11, 2005". 11 June 2005. Retrieved 2012-02-20.
    54.^ Weinstein's 2006 book With God on Our Side (ISBN 0-312-36143-2) details the alleged proselytization and harassment at the Academy.
    55.^ "Air Force Sued over Religion, CBS News, Oct. 6, 2005". 11 February 2009. Retrieved 2012-02-20.
    56.^ Report of HQ Review Group Concerning the Religious Climate at the U.S. Air Force Academy, 22 June 2005.[dead link]
    57.^ Banerjee, Neela, "Religion and Its Role Are in Dispute at the Service Academies", New York Times, 25 June 2008
    58.^ Associated Press, "Colorado: Academy Accommodates Wiccans", New York Times, 2 February 2010.
    59.^ Correll, DeeDee, "Cross Found At Air Force Pagan Center", Los Angeles Times, 3 February 2010, p. 8.
    60.^ Elliot, Dan, "41% Of Non-Christian AF Cadets Cite Proselytizing", Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 29 October 2010.
    61.^ Benzel, Lance, "AFASurvey: Cadets Fear Racial, Religious Bias", Colorado Springs Gazette, 30 October 2010.
    62.^ Lisee, Chris. "Debate reignites over religion at Air Force Academy." Religion News Service, 16 July 2012.

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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:23 am

    THEeXchanger wrote:As, some of you, maybe aware
    or, NOT aware, i am NOT much of a bible thumper
    was NEVER raised with any of that

    i'd like to think, that jesus exists in everything
    and, that everyone has the same raft of potentials
    available to him/or her

    in other words - jesus is an example

    being/or doing as jesus did (and, a few others)
    can lead us to the door
    but, only we can open it

    is it as simple, as, the answer is found in 2 places ???

    the first place is here - and, after i've read it;
    it might be an idea for me to summarize what i think about it;
    in reg. terms ???

    The Gnostic Society Library

    The Nag Hammadi Library
    The Gospel of Thomas

    Translated by Thomas O. Lambdin

    (Visit the Gospel of Thomas Collection for additional information)

    These are the secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down.

    (1) And he said, "Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experience death."

    (2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

    (3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

    (4) Jesus said, "The man old in days will not hesitate to ask a small child seven days old about the place of life, and he will live. For many who are first will become last, and they will become one and the same."

    (5) Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."

    (6) His disciples questioned him and said to him, "Do you want us to fast? How shall we pray? Shall we give alms? What diet shall we observe?"
    Jesus said, "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered."

    (7) Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man."

    (Cool And he said, "The man is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of small fish. Among them the wise fisherman found a fine large fish. He threw all the small fish back into the sea and chose the large fish without difficulty. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."

    (9) Jesus said, "Now the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered them. Some fell on the road; the birds came and gathered them up. Others fell on the rock, did not take root in the soil, and did not produce ears. And others fell on thorns; they choked the seed(s) and worms ate them. And others fell on the good soil and it produced good fruit: it bore sixty per measure and a hundred and twenty per measure."

    (10) Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am guarding it until it blazes."

    (11) Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

    (12) The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that you will depart from us. Who is to be our leader?"
    Jesus said to them, "Wherever you are, you are to go to James the righteous, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being."

    (13) Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell me whom I am like."
    Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a righteous angel."
    Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
    Thomas said to him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like."
    Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring which I have measured out."
    And he took him and withdrew and told him three things. When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"
    Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."

    (14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

    (15) Jesus said, "When you see one who was not born of woman, prostrate yourselves on your faces and worship him. That one is your father."

    (16) Jesus said, "Men think, perhaps, that it is peace which I have come to cast upon the world. They do not know that it is dissension which I have come to cast upon the earth: fire, sword, and war. For there will be five in a house: three will be against two, and two against three, the father against the son, and the son against the father. And they will stand solitary."

    (17) Jesus said, "I shall give you what no eye has seen and what no ear has heard and what no hand has touched and what has never occurred to the human mind."

    (18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
    Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."

    (19) Jesus said, "Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being. If you become my disciples and listen to my words, these stones will minister to you. For there are five trees for you in Paradise which remain undisturbed summer and winter and whose leaves do not fall. Whoever becomes acquainted with them will not experience death."

    (20) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us what the kingdom of heaven is like."
    He said to them, "It is like a mustard seed. It is the smallest of all seeds. But when it falls on tilled soil, it produces a great plant and becomes a shelter for birds of the sky."

    (21) Mary said to Jesus, "Whom are your disciples like?"
    He said, "They are like children who have settled in a field which is not theirs. When the owners of the field come, they will say, 'Let us have back our field.' They (will) undress in their presence in order to let them have back their field and to give it back to them. Therefore I say, if the owner of a house knows that the thief is coming, he will begin his vigil before he comes and will not let him dig through into his house of his domain to carry away his goods. You, then, be on your guard against the world. Arm yourselves with great strength lest the robbers find a way to come to you, for the difficulty which you expect will (surely) materialize. Let there be among you a man of understanding. When the grain ripened, he came quickly with his sickle in his hand and reaped it. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."

    (22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
    They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
    Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."

    (23) Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and two out of ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one."

    (24) His disciples said to him, "Show us the place where you are, since it is necessary for us to seek it."
    He said to them, "Whoever has ears, let him hear. There is light within a man of light, and he lights up the whole world. If he does not shine, he is darkness."

    (25) Jesus said, "Love your brother like your soul, guard him like the pupil of your eye."

    (26) Jesus said, "You see the mote in your brother's eye, but you do not see the beam in your own eye. When you cast the beam out of your own eye, then you will see clearly to cast the mote from your brother's eye."

    (27) <Jesus said,> "If you do not fast as regards the world, you will not find the kingdom. If you do not observe the Sabbath as a Sabbath, you will not see the father."

    (28) Jesus said, "I took my place in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in flesh. I found all of them intoxicated; I found none of them thirsty. And my soul became afflicted for the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will repent."

    (29) Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty."

    (30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."

    (31) Jesus said, "No prophet is accepted in his own village; no physician heals those who know him."

    (32) Jesus said, "A city being built on a high mountain and fortified cannot fall, nor can it be hidden."

    (33) Jesus said, "Preach from your housetops that which you will hear in your ear. For no one lights a lamp and puts it under a bushel, nor does he put it in a hidden place, but rather he sets it on a lampstand so that everyone who enters and leaves will see its light."

    (34) Jesus said, "If a blind man leads a blind man, they will both fall into a pit."

    (35) Jesus said, "It is not possible for anyone to enter the house of a strong man and take it by force unless he binds his hands; then he will (be able to) ransack his house."

    (36) Jesus said, "Do not be concerned from morning until evening and from evening until morning about what you will wear."

    (37) His disciples said, "When will you become revealed to us and when shall we see you?"
    Jesus said, "When you disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments and place them under your feet like little children and tread on them, then will you see the son of the living one, and you will not be afraid"

    (38) Jesus said, "Many times have you desired to hear these words which I am saying to you, and you have no one else to hear them from. There will be days when you will look for me and will not find me."

    (39) Jesus said, "The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (gnosis) and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

    (40) Jesus said, "A grapevine has been planted outside of the father, but being unsound, it will be pulled up by its roots and destroyed."

    (41) Jesus said, "Whoever has something in his hand will receive more, and whoever has nothing will be deprived of even the little he has."

    (42) Jesus said, "Become passers-by."

    (43) His disciples said to him, "Who are you, that you should say these things to us?"
    <Jesus said to them,> "You do not realize who I am from what I say to you, but you have become like the Jews, for they (either) love the tree and hate its fruit (or) love the fruit and hate the tree."

    (44) Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven either on earth or in heaven."

    (45) Jesus said, "Grapes are not harvested from thorns, nor are figs gathered from thistles, for they do not produce fruit. A good man brings forth good from his storehouse; an evil man brings forth evil things from his evil storehouse, which is in his heart, and says evil things. For out of the abundance of the heart he brings forth evil things."

    (46) Jesus said, "Among those born of women, from Adam until John the Baptist, there is no one so superior to John the Baptist that his eyes should not be lowered (before him). Yet I have said, whichever one of you comes to be a child will be acquainted with the kingdom and will become superior to John."

    (47) Jesus said, "It is impossible for a man to mount two horses or to stretch two bows. And it is impossible for a servant to serve two masters; otherwise, he will honor the one and treat the other contemptuously. No man drinks old wine and immediately desires to drink new wine. And new wine is not put into old wineskins, lest they burst; nor is old wine put into a new wineskin, lest it spoil it. An old patch is not sewn onto a new garment, because a tear would result."

    (48) Jesus said, "If two make peace with each other in this one house, they will say to the mountain, 'Move Away,' and it will move away."

    (49) Jesus said, "Blessed are the solitary and elect, for you will find the kingdom. For you are from it, and to it you will return."

    (50) Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where did you come from?', say to them, 'We came from the light, the place where the light came into being on its own accord and established itself and became manifest through their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?', say, 'We are its children, we are the elect of the living father.' If they ask you, 'What is the sign of your father in you?', say to them, 'It is movement and repose.'"

    (51) His disciples said to him, "When will the repose of the dead come about, and when will the new world come?"
    He said to them, "What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it."

    (52) His disciples said to him, "Twenty-four prophets spoke in Israel, and all of them spoke in you."
    He said to them, "You have omitted the one living in your presence and have spoken (only) of the dead."

    (53) His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision beneficial or not?"
    He said to them, "If it were beneficial, their father would beget them already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become completely profitable."

    (54) Jesus said, "Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of heaven."

    (55) Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate his father and his mother cannot become a disciple to me. And whoever does not hate his brothers and sisters and take up his cross in my way will not be worthy of me."

    (56) Jesus said, "Whoever has come to understand the world has found (only) a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world."

    (57) Jesus said, "The kingdom of the father is like a man who had good seed. His enemy came by night and sowed weeds among the good seed. The man did not allow them to pull up the weeds; he said to them, 'I am afraid that you will go intending to pull up the weeds and pull up the wheat along with them.' For on the day of the harvest the weeds will be plainly visible, and they will be pulled up and burned."

    (58) Jesus said, "Blessed is the man who has suffered and found life."

    (59) Jesus said, "Take heed of the living one while you are alive, lest you die and seek to see him and be unable to do so."

    (60) <They saw> a Samaritan carrying a lamb on his way to Judea. He said to his disciples, "That man is round about the lamb."
    They said to him, "So that he may kill it and eat it."
    He said to them, "While it is alive, he will not eat it, but only when he has killed it and it has become a corpse."
    They said to him, "He cannot do so otherwise."
    He said to them, "You too, look for a place for yourself within repose, lest you become a corpse and be eaten."

    (61) Jesus said, "Two will rest on a bed: the one will die, and the other will live."
    Salome said, "Who are you, man, that you ... have come up on my couch and eaten from my table?"
    Jesus said to her, "I am he who exists from the undivided. I was given some of the things of my father."
    <...> "I am your disciple."
    <...> "Therefore I say, if he is destroyed, he will be filled with light, but if he is divided, he will be filled with darkness."

    (62) Jesus said, "It is to those who are worthy of my mysteries that I tell my mysteries. Do not let your left (hand) know what your right (hand) is doing."

    (63) Jesus said, "There was a rich man who had much money. He said, 'I shall put my money to use so that I may sow, reap, plant, and fill my storehouse with produce, with the result that I shall lack nothing.' Such were his intentions, but that same night he died. Let him who has ears hear."

    (64) Jesus said, "A man had received visitors. And when he had prepared the dinner, he sent his servant to invite the guests.
    He went to the first one and said to him, 'My master invites you.' He said, 'I have claims against some merchants. They are coming to me this evening. I must go and give them my orders. I ask to be excused from the dinner.'
    He went to another and said to him, 'My master has invited you.' He said to him, 'I have just bought a house and am required for the day. I shall not have any spare time.'
    He went to another and said to him, 'My master invites you.' He said to him, 'My friend is going to get married, and I am to prepare the banquet. I shall not be able to come. I ask to be excused from the dinner.'
    He went to another and said to him, 'My master invites you.' He said to him, 'I have just bought a farm, and I am on my way to collect the rent. I shall not be able to come. I ask to be excused.'
    The servant returned and said to his master, 'Those whom you invited to the dinner have asked to be excused.' The master said to his servant, 'Go outside to the streets and bring back those whom you happen to meet, so that they may dine.' Businessmen and merchants will not enter the places of my father."

    (65) He said, "There was a good man who owned a vineyard. He leased it to tenant farmers so that they might work it and he might collect the produce from them. He sent his servant so that the tenants might give him the produce of the vineyard. They seized his servant and beat him, all but killing him. The servant went back and told his master. The master said, 'Perhaps he did not recognize them.' He sent another servant. The tenants beat this one as well. Then the owner sent his son and said, 'Perhaps they will show respect to my son.' Because the tenants knew that it was he who was the heir to the vineyard, they seized him and killed him. Let him who has ears hear."

    (66) Jesus said, "Show me the stone which the builders have rejected. That one is the cornerstone."

    (67) Jesus said, "If one who knows the all still feels a personal deficiency, he is completely deficient."

    (68) Jesus said, "Blessed are you when you are hated and persecuted. Wherever you have been persecuted they will find no place."

    (69) Jesus said, "Blessed are they who have been persecuted within themselves. It is they who have truly come to know the father. Blessed are the hungry, for the belly of him who desires will be filled."

    (70) Jesus said, "That which you have will save you if you bring it forth from yourselves. That which you do not have within you will kill you if you do not have it within you."

    (71) Jesus said, "I shall destroy this house, and no one will be able to build it [...]."

    (72) A man said to him, "Tell my brothers to divide my father's possessions with me."
    He said to him, "O man, who has made me a divider?"
    He turned to his disciples and said to them, "I am not a divider, am I?"

    (73) Jesus said, "The harvest is great but the laborers are few. Beseech the Lord, therefore, to send out laborers to the harvest."

    (74) He said, "O Lord, there are many around the drinking trough, but there is nothing in the cistern."

    (75) Jesus said, "Many are standing at the door, but it is the solitary who will enter the bridal chamber."

    (76) Jesus said, "The kingdom of the father is like a merchant who had a consignment of merchandise and who discovered a pearl. That merchant was shrewd. He sold the merchandise and bought the pearl alone for himself. You too, seek his unfailing and enduring treasure where no moth comes near to devour and no worm destroys."

    (77) Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the all. From me did the all come forth, and unto me did the all extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

    (78) Jesus said, "Why have you come out into the desert? To see a reed shaken by the wind? And to see a man clothed in fine garments like your kings and your great men? Upon them are the fine garments, and they are unable to discern the truth."

    (79) A woman from the crowd said to him, "Blessed are the womb which bore you and the breasts which nourished you."
    He said to her, "Blessed are those who have heard the word of the father and have truly kept it. For there will be days when you will say, 'Blessed are the womb which has not conceived and the breasts which have not given milk.'"

    (80) Jesus said, "He who has recognized the world has found the body, but he who has found the body is superior to the world."

    (81) Jesus said, "Let him who has grown rich be king, and let him who possesses power renounce it."

    (82) Jesus said, "He who is near me is near the fire, and he who is far from me is far from the kingdom."

    (83) Jesus said, "The images are manifest to man, but the light in them remains concealed in the image of the light of the father. He will become manifest, but his image will remain concealed by his light."

    (84) Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you rejoice. But when you see your images which came into being before you, and which neither die not become manifest, how much you will have to bear!"

    (85) Jesus said, "Adam came into being from a great power and a great wealth, but he did not become worthy of you. For had he been worthy, he would not have experienced death."

    (86) Jesus said, "The foxes have their holes and the birds have their nests, but the son of man has no place to lay his head and rest."

    (87) Jesus said, "Wretched is the body that is dependant upon a body, and wretched is the soul that is dependent on these two."

    (88) Jesus said, "The angels and the prophets will come to you and give to you those things you (already) have. And you too, give them those things which you have, and say to yourselves, 'When will they come and take what is theirs?'"

    (89) Jesus said, "Why do you wash the outside of the cup? Do you not realize that he who made the inside is the same one who made the outside?"

    (90) Jesus said, "Come unto me, for my yoke is easy and my lordship is mild, and you will find repose for yourselves."

    (91) They said to him, "Tell us who you are so that we may believe in you."
    He said to them, "You read the face of the sky and of the earth, but you have not recognized the one who is before you, and you do not know how to read this moment."

    (92) Jesus said, "Seek and you will find. Yet, what you asked me about in former times and which I did not tell you then, now I do desire to tell, but you do not inquire after it."

    (93) <Jesus said,> "Do not give what is holy to dogs, lest they throw them on the dung-heap. Do not throw the pearls to swine, lest they [...] it [...]."

    (94) Jesus said, "He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in."

    (95) Jesus said, "If you have money, do not lend it at interest, but give it to one from whom you will not get it back."

    (96) Jesus said, "The kingdom of the father is like a certain woman. She took a little leaven, concealed it in some dough, and made it into large loaves. Let him who has ears hear."

    (97) Jesus said, "The kingdom of the father is like a certain woman who was carrying a jar full of meal. While she was walking on the road, still some distance from home, the handle of the jar broke and the meal emptied out behind her on the road. She did not realize it; she had noticed no accident. When she reached her house, she set the jar down and found it empty."

    (98) Jesus said, "The kingdom of the father is like a certain man who wanted to kill a powerful man. In his own house he drew his sword and stuck it into the wall in order to find out whether his hand could carry through. Then he slew the powerful man."

    (99) The disciples said to him, "Your brothers and your mother are standing outside."
    He said to them, "Those here who do the will of my father are my brothers and my mother. It is they who will enter the kingdom of my father."

    (100) They showed Jesus a gold coin and said to him, "Caesar's men demand taxes from us."
    He said to them, "Give Caesar what belongs to Caesar, give God what belongs to God, and give me what is mine."

    (101) <Jesus said,> "Whoever does not hate his father and his mother as I do cannot become a disciple to me. And whoever does not love his father and his mother as I do cannot become a disciple to me. For my mother [...], but my true mother gave me life."

    (102) Jesus said, "Woe to the pharisees, for they are like a dog sleeping in the manger of oxen, for neither does he eat nor does he let the oxen eat."

    (103) Jesus said, "Fortunate is the man who knows where the brigands will enter, so that he may get up, muster his domain, and arm himself before they invade."

    (104) They said to Jesus, "Come, let us pray today and let us fast."
    Jesus said, "What is the sin that I have committed, or wherein have I been defeated? But when the bridegroom leaves the bridal chamber, then let them fast and pray."

    (105) Jesus said, "He who knows the father and the mother will be called the son of a harlot."

    (106) Jesus said, "When you make the two one, you will become the sons of man, and when you say, 'Mountain, move away,' it will move away."

    (107) Jesus said, "The kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine sheep and looked for that one until he found it. When he had gone to such trouble, he said to the sheep, 'I care for you more than the ninety-nine.'"

    (108) Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become like me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him."

    (109) Jesus said, "The kingdom is like a man who had a hidden treasure in his field without knowing it. And after he died, he left it to his son. The son did not know (about the treasure). He inherited the field and sold it. And the one who bought it went plowing and found the treasure. He began to lend money at interest to whomever he wished."

    (110) Jesus said, "Whoever finds the world and becomes rich, let him renounce the world."

    (111) Jesus said, "The heavens and the earth will be rolled up in your presence. And the one who lives from the living one will not see death." Does not Jesus say, "Whoever finds himself is superior to the world?"

    (112) Jesus said, "Woe to the flesh that depends on the soul; woe to the soul that depends on the flesh."

    (113) His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
    <Jesus said,> "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

    (114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."
    Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

    The Gospel
    According to Thomas
    Selection made from James M. Robinson, ed., The Nag Hammadi Library, revised edition. HarperCollins, San Francisco, 1990.

    THEeXchanger wrote:what if the parables just are NOT things people get very easy ?

    - what if you created a relation
    - and, then sync'd that to proven mathematical / relation formulas
    and, people understood it
    - might that be easier to get ?

    Posts : 11441
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:25 am

    Thank-you Susan. The non-canonical texts in your post are interesting -- but they lack the quality found in the canonical gospels. But even the canonical scriptures are difficult to apply directly to our time. I suppose this is one reason why I was attracted to the ministry of Dr. Robert H. Schuller (despite some of the obvious flaws and failings). The Crystal Cathedral was in-step with modernity -- but as I have stated previously -- it was still just a band-aid on a compound-fracture. I have attempted to set that damn fracture with this particular thread (if anyone bothers to read it -- and internalize it). I have also repeatedly stated that I have a love-hate relationship with the books of Ellen White. I find them useful and inspiring -- yet I am fully aware of the problems connected with them -- and the pain experienced by many who have taken them seriously, and who have tried to follow them in every detail. I pick and choose -- and not in the context of the SDA church. Anyway, here are some sample chapters of my favorite Ellen White book The Desire of Ages which you might find helpful (in light of what you just posted).

    Chapter 70 "The Least of These My Brethren" [This chapter is based on Matt. 25.]
    When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory: and before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another." Thus Christ on the Mount of Olives pictured to His disciples the scene of the great judgment day. And He represented its decision as turning upon one point. When the nations are gathered before Him, there will be but two classes, and their eternal destiny will be determined by what they have done or have neglected to do for Him in the person of the poor and the suffering.

    In that day Christ does not present before men the great work He has done for them in giving His life for their redemption. He presents the faithful work they have done for Him. To those whom He sets upon His right hand He will say, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungered, and ye gave Me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave Me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took Me in: naked, and ye clothed Me: I was sick, and ye visited Me: I was in prison, and ye came unto Me." But those whom Christ commends know not that they have been ministering unto Him. To their perplexed inquiries He answers, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me."

    Jesus had told His disciples that they were to be hated of all men, to be persecuted and afflicted. Many would be driven from their homes, and brought to poverty. Many would be in distress through disease and privation. Many would be cast into prison. To all who forsook friends or home for His sake He had promised in this life a hundredfold. Now He assured a special blessing to all who should minister to their brethren. In all who suffer for My name, said Jesus, you are to recognize Me. As you would minister to Me, so you are to minister to them. This is the evidence that you are My disciples. All who have been born into the heavenly family are in a special sense the brethren of our Lord. The love of Christ binds together the members of His family, and wherever that love is made manifest there the divine relationship is revealed. "Everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God." 1 John 4:7.

    Those whom Christ commends in the judgment may have known little of theology, but they have cherished His principles. Through the influence of the divine Spirit they have been a blessing to those about them. Even among the heathen are those who have cherished the spirit of kindness; before the words of life had fallen upon their ears, they have befriended the missionaries, even ministering to them at the peril of their own lives. Among the heathen are those who worship God ignorantly, those to whom the light is never brought by human instrumentality, yet they will not perish. Though ignorant of the written law of God, they have heard His voice speaking to them in nature, and have done the things that the law required. Their works are evidence that the Holy Spirit has touched their hearts, and they are recognized as the children of God.

    How surprised and gladdened will be the lowly among the nations, and among the heathen, to hear from the lips of the Saviour, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me"! How glad will be the heart of Infinite Love as His followers look up with surprise and joy at His words of approval!

    But not to any class is Christ's love restricted. He identifies Himself with every child of humanity. That we might become members of the heavenly family, He became a member of the earthly family. He is the Son of man, and thus a brother to every son and daughter of Adam. His followers are not to feel themselves detached from the perishing world around them. They are a part of the great web of humanity; and Heaven looks upon them as brothers to sinners as well as to saints. The fallen, the erring, and the sinful, Christ's love embraces; and every deed of kindness done to uplift a fallen soul, every act of mercy, is accepted as done to Him.

    The angels of heaven are sent forth to minister to those who shall be heirs of salvation. We know not now who they are; it is not yet made manifest who shall overcome, and share the inheritance of the saints in light; but angels of heaven are passing throughout the length and breadth of the earth, seeking to comfort the sorrowing, to protect the imperiled, to win the hearts of men to Christ. Not one is neglected or passed by. God is no respecter of persons, and He has an equal care for all the souls He has created.

    As you open your door to Christ's needy and suffering ones, you are welcoming unseen angels. You invite the companionship of heavenly beings. They bring a sacred atmosphere of joy and peace. They come with praises upon their lips, and an answering strain is heard in heaven. Every deed of mercy makes music there. The Father from His throne numbers the unselfish workers among His most precious treasures.

    Those on the left hand of Christ, those who had neglected Him in the person of the poor and the suffering, were unconscious of their guilt. Satan had blinded them; they had not perceived what they owed to their brethren. They had been self-absorbed, and cared not for others' needs.

    To the rich, God has given wealth that they may relieve and comfort His suffering children; but too often they are indifferent to the wants of others. They feel themselves superior to their poor brethren. They do not put themselves in the poor man's place. They do not understand the temptations and struggles of the poor, and mercy dies out of their hearts. In costly dwellings and splendid churches, the rich shut themselves away from the poor; the means that God has given to bless the needy is spent in pampering pride and selfishness. The poor are robbed daily of the education they should have concerning the tender mercies of God; for He has made ample provision that they should be comforted with the necessities of life. They are compelled to feel the poverty that narrows life, and are often tempted to become envious, jealous, and full of evil surmisings. Those who themselves have not endured the pressure of want too often treat the poor in a contemptuous way, and make them feel that they are looked upon as paupers.

    But Christ beholds it all, and He says, It was I who was hungry and thirsty. It was I who was a stranger. It was I who was sick. It was I who was in prison. While you were feasting at your bountifully spread table, I was famishing in the hovel or the empty street. While you were at ease in your luxurious home, I had not where to lay My head. While you crowded your wardrobe with rich apparel, I was destitute. While you pursued your pleasures, I languished in prison. When you doled out the pittance of bread to the starving poor, when you gave those flimsy garments to shield them from the biting frost, did you remember that you were giving to the Lord of glory? All the days of your life I was near you in the person of these afflicted ones, but you did not seek Me. You would not enter into fellowship with Me. I know you not.

    Many feel that it would be a great privilege to visit the scenes of Christ's life on earth, to walk where He trod, to look upon the lake beside which He loved to teach, and the hills and valleys on which His eyes so often rested. But we need not go to Nazareth, to Capernaum, or to Bethany, in order to walk in the steps of Jesus. We shall find His footprints beside the sickbed, in the hovels of poverty, in the crowded alleys of the great city, and in every place where there are human hearts in need of consolation. In doing as Jesus did when on earth, we shall walk in His steps.

    All may find something to do. "The poor always ye have with you," (John 12:Cool, Jesus said, and none need feel that there is no place where they can labor for Him. Millions upon millions of human souls ready to perish, bound in chains of ignorance and sin, have never so much as heard of Christ's love for them. Were our condition and theirs to be reversed, what would we desire them to do for us? All this, so far as lies in our power, we are under the most solemn obligation to do for them. Christ's rule of life, by which every one of us must stand or fall in the judgment, is, "Whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them." Matt. 7:12.

    The Saviour has given His precious life in order to establish a church capable of caring for sorrowful, tempted souls. A company of believers may be poor, uneducated, and unknown; yet in Christ they may do a work in the home, the neighborhood, the church, and even in "the regions beyond," whose results shall be as far-reaching as eternity.

    It is because this work is neglected that so many young disciples never advance beyond the mere alphabet of Christian experience. The light which was glowing in their own hearts when Jesus spoke to them, "Thy sins be forgiven thee," they might have kept alive by helping those in need. The restless energy that is so often a source of danger to the young might be directed into channels through which it would flow out in streams of blessing. Self would be forgotten in earnest work to do others good. Those who minister to others will be ministered unto by the Chief Shepherd. They themselves will drink of the living water, and will be satisfied. They will not be longing for exciting amusements, or for some change in their lives. The great topic of interest will be, how to save the souls that are ready to perish. Social intercourse will be profitable. The love of the Redeemer will draw hearts together in unity.

    When we realize that we are workers together with God, His promises will not be spoken with indifference. They will burn in our hearts, and kindle upon our lips. To Moses, when called to minister to an ignorant, undisciplined, and rebellious people, God gave the promise, "My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest." And He said, "Certainly I will be with thee." Ex. 33:14; 3:12. This promise is to all who labor in Christ's stead for His afflicted and suffering ones.

    Love to man is the earthward manifestation of the love of God. It was to implant this love, to make us children of one family, that the King of glory became one with us. And when His parting words are fulfilled, "Love one another, as I have loved you" (John 15:12); when we love the world as He has loved it, then for us His mission is accomplished. We are fitted for heaven; for we have heaven in our hearts.

    But "if thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; if thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not He that pondereth the heart consider it? and He that keepeth thy soul, doth not He know it? and shall not He render to every man according to his works?" Prov. 24:11, 12. In the great Judgment day, those who have not worked for Christ, who have drifted along thinking of themselves, caring for themselves, will be placed by the Judge of the whole earth with those who did evil. They receive the same condemnation.

    To every soul a trust is given. Of everyone the Chief Shepherd will demand, "Where is the flock that was given thee, thy beautiful flock?" And "what wilt thou say when He shall punish thee?" Jer. 13:20, 21.

    Chapter 71 A Servant of Servants [This chapter is based on Luke 22:7-18, 24; John 13:1-17.]
    In the upper chamber of a dwelling at Jerusalem, Christ was sitting at table with His disciples. They had gathered to celebrate the Passover. The Saviour desired to keep this feast alone with the twelve. He knew that His hour was come; He Himself was the true paschal lamb, and on the day the Passover was eaten He was to be sacrificed. He was about to drink the cup of wrath; He must soon receive the final baptism of suffering. But a few quiet hours yet remained to Him, and these were to be spent for the benefit of His beloved disciples.

    The whole life of Christ had been a life of unselfish service. "Not to be ministered unto, but to minister," (Matt. 20:28), had been the lesson of His every act. But not yet had the disciples learned the lesson. At this last Passover supper, Jesus repeated His teaching by an illustration that impressed it forever on their minds and hearts.

    The interviews between Jesus and His disciples were usually seasons of calm joy, highly prized by them all. The Passover suppers had been scenes of special interest; but upon this occasion Jesus was troubled. His heart was burdened, and a shadow rested upon His countenance.

    As He met the disciples in the upper chamber, they perceived that something weighed heavily upon His mind, and although they knew not its cause, they sympathized with His grief. As they were gathered about the table, He said in tones of touching sadness, "With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer: for I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: for I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come."

    Christ knew that the time had come for Him to depart out of the world, and go to His Father. And having loved His own that were in the world, He loved them unto the end. He was now in the shadow of the cross, and the pain was torturing His heart. He knew that He would be deserted in the hour of His betrayal. He knew that by the most humiliating process to which criminals were subjected He would be put to death. He knew the ingratitude and cruelty of those He had come to save. He knew how great the sacrifice that He must make, and for how many it would be in vain. Knowing all that was before Him, He might naturally have been overwhelmed with the thought of His own humiliation and suffering. But He looked upon the twelve, who had been with Him as His own, and who, after His shame and sorrow and painful usage were over, would be left to struggle in the world. His thoughts of what He Himself must suffer were ever connected with His disciples. He did not think of Himself. His care for them was uppermost in His mind.

    On this last evening with His disciples, Jesus had much to tell them. If they had been prepared to receive what He longed to impart, they would have been saved from heartbreaking anguish, from disappointment and unbelief. But Jesus saw that they could not bear what He had to say. As He looked into their faces, the words of warning and comfort were stayed upon His lips. Moments passed in silence. Jesus appeared to be waiting. The disciples were ill at ease. The sympathy and tenderness awakened by Christ's grief seemed to have passed away. His sorrowful words, pointing to His own suffering, had made little impression. The glances they cast upon each other told of jealousy and contention.

    There was "a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest." This contention, carried on in the presence of Christ, grieved and wounded Him. The disciples clung to their favorite idea that Christ would assert His power, and take His position on the throne of David. And in heart each still longed for the highest place in the kingdom. They had placed their own estimate upon themselves and upon one another, and, instead of regarding their brethren as more worthy, they had placed themselves first. The request of James and John to sit on the right and left of Christ's throne had excited the indignation of the others. That the two brothers should presume to ask for the highest position so stirred the ten that alienation threatened. They felt that they were misjudged, that their fidelity and talents were not appreciated. Judas was the most severe upon James and John. When the disciples entered the supper room, their hearts were full of resentful feelings. Judas pressed next to Christ on the left side; John was on the right. If there was a highest place, Judas was determined to have it, and that place was thought to be next to Christ. And Judas was a traitor.

    Another cause of dissension had arisen. At a feast it was customary for a servant to wash the feet of the guests, and on this occasion preparation had been made for the service. The pitcher, the basin, and the towel were there, in readiness for the feet washing; but no servant was present, and it was the disciples' part to perform it. But each of the disciples, yielding to wounded pride, determined not to act the part of a servant. All manifested a stoical unconcern, seeming unconscious that there was anything for them to do. By their silence they refused to humble themselves.

    How was Christ to bring these poor souls where Satan would not gain over them a decided victory? How could He show that a mere profession of discipleship did not make them disciples, or insure them a place in His kingdom? How could He show that it is loving service, true humility, which constitutes real greatness? How was He to kindle love in their hearts, and enable them to comprehend what He longed to tell them?

    The disciples made no move toward serving one another. Jesus waited for a time to see what they would do. Then He, the divine Teacher, rose from the table. Laying aside the outer garment that would have impeded His movements, He took a towel, and girded Himself. With surprised interest the disciples looked on, and in silence waited to see what was to follow. "After that He poureth water into a basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith He was girded." This action opened the eyes of the disciples. Bitter shame and humiliation filled their hearts. They understood the unspoken rebuke, and saw themselves in altogether a new light.

    So Christ expressed His love for His disciples. Their selfish spirit filled Him with sorrow, but He entered into no controversy with them regarding their difficulty. Instead He gave them an example they would never forget. His love for them was not easily disturbed or quenched. He knew that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He came from God, and went to God. He had a full consciousness of His divinity; but He had laid aside His royal crown and kingly robes, and had taken the form of a servant. One of the last acts of His life on earth was to gird Himself as a servant, and perform a servant's part.

    Before the Passover Judas had met a second time with the priests and scribes, and had closed the contract to deliver Jesus into their hands. Yet he afterward mingled with the disciples as though innocent of any wrong, and interested in the work of preparing for the feast. The disciples knew nothing of the purpose of Judas. Jesus alone could read his secret. Yet He did not expose him. Jesus hungered for his soul. He felt for him such a burden as for Jerusalem when He wept over the doomed city. His heart was crying, How can I give thee up? The constraining power of that love was felt by Judas. When the Saviour's hands were bathing those soiled feet, and wiping them with the towel, the heart of Judas thrilled through and through with the impulse then and there to confess his sin. But he would not humble himself. He hardened his heart against repentance; and the old impulses, for the moment put aside, again controlled him. Judas was now offended at Christ's act in washing the feet of His disciples. If Jesus could so humble Himself, he thought, He could not be Israel's king. All hope of worldly honor in a temporal kingdom was destroyed. Judas was satisfied that there was nothing to be gained by following Christ. After seeing Him degrade Himself, as he thought, he was confirmed in his purpose to disown Him, and confess himself deceived. He was possessed by a demon, and he resolved to complete the work he had agreed to do in betraying his Lord.

    Judas, in choosing his position at table, had tried to place himself first, and Christ as a servant served him first. John, toward whom Judas had felt so much bitterness, was left till the last. But John did not take this as a rebuke or slight. As the disciples watched Christ's action, they were greatly moved. When Peter's turn came, he exclaimed with astonishment, "Lord, dost Thou wash my feet?" Christ's condescension broke his heart. He was filled with shame to think that one of the disciples was not performing this service. "What I do," Christ said, "thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter." Peter could not bear to see his Lord, whom he believed to be the Son of God, acting the part of a servant. His whole soul rose up against this humiliation.

    He did not realize that for this Christ came into the world. With great emphasis he exclaimed, "Thou shalt never wash my feet." Solemnly Christ said to Peter, "If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with Me." The service which Peter refused was the type of a higher cleansing. Christ had come to wash the heart from the stain of sin. In refusing to allow Christ to wash his feet, Peter was refusing the higher cleansing included in the lower. He was really rejecting his Lord. It is not humiliating to the Master to allow Him to work for our purification. The truest humility is to receive with thankful heart any provision made in our behalf, and with earnestness do service for Christ.

    At the words, "If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with Me," Peter surrendered his pride and self-will. He could not endure the thought of separation from Christ; that would have been death to him. "Not my feet only," he said, "but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit."

    These words mean more than bodily cleanliness. Christ is still speaking of the higher cleansing as illustrated by the lower. He who came from the bath was clean, but the sandaled feet soon became dusty, and again needed to be washed. So Peter and his brethren had been washed in the great fountain opened for sin and uncleanness. Christ acknowledged them as His. But temptation had led them into evil, and they still needed His cleansing grace. When Jesus girded Himself with a towel to wash the dust from their feet, He desired by that very act to wash the alienation, jealousy, and pride from their hearts. This was of far more consequence than the washing of their dusty feet. With the spirit they then had, not one of them was prepared for communion with Christ. Until brought into a state of humility and love, they were not prepared to partake of the paschal supper, or to share in the memorial service which Christ was about to institute. Their hearts must be cleansed. Pride and self-seeking create dissension and hatred, but all this Jesus washed away in washing their feet. A change of feeling was brought about. Looking upon them, Jesus could say, "Ye are clean." Now there was union of heart, love for one another. They had become humble and teachable. Except Judas, each was ready to concede to another the highest place. Now with subdued and grateful hearts they could receive Christ's words.

    Like Peter and his brethren, we too have been washed in the blood of Christ, yet often through contact with evil the heart's purity is soiled. We must come to Christ for His cleansing grace. Peter shrank from bringing his soiled feet in contact with the hands of his Lord and Master; but how often we bring our sinful, polluted hearts in contact with the heart of Christ! How grievous to Him is our evil temper, our vanity and pride! Yet all our infirmity and defilement we must bring to Him. He alone can wash us clean. We are not prepared for communion with Him unless cleansed by His efficacy. Jesus said to the disciples, "Ye are clean, but not all." He had washed the feet of Judas, but the heart had not been yielded to Him. It was not purified. Judas had not submitted himself to Christ.

    After Christ had washed the disciples' feet, and had taken His garments and sat down again, He said to them, "Know ye what I have done to you? Ye call Me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him."

    Christ would have His disciples understand that although He had washed their feet, this did not in the least detract from His dignity. "Ye call Me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am." And being so infinitely superior, He imparted grace and significance to the service. No one was so exalted as Christ, and yet He stooped to the humblest duty. That His people might not be misled by the selfishness which dwells in the natural heart, and which strengthens by self-serving, Christ Himself set the example of humility. He would not leave this great subject in man's charge. Of so much consequence did He regard it, that He Himself, One equal with God, acted as servant to His disciples. While they were contending for the highest place, He to whom every knee shall bow, He whom the angels of glory count it honor to serve, bowed down to wash the feet of those who called Him Lord. He washed the feet of His betrayer.

    In His life and lessons, Christ has given a perfect exemplification of the unselfish ministry which has its origin in God. God does not live for Himself. By creating the world, and by upholding all things, He is constantly ministering for others. "He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." Matt. 5:45. This ideal of ministry God has committed to His Son. Jesus was given to stand at the head of humanity, that by His example He might teach what it means to minister. His whole life was under a law of service. He served all, ministered to all. Thus He lived the law of God, and by His example showed how we are to obey it.

    Again and again Jesus had tried to establish this principle among His disciples. When James and John made their request for pre-eminence, He had said, "Whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister." Matt. 20:26. In My kingdom the principle of preference and supremacy has no place. The only greatness is the greatness of humility. The only distinction is found in devotion to the service of others.

    Now, having washed the disciples' feet, He said, "I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you." In these words Christ was not merely enjoining the practice of hospitality. More was meant than the washing of the feet of guests to remove the dust of travel. Christ was here instituting a religious service. By the act of our Lord this humiliating ceremony was made a consecrated ordinance. It was to be observed by the disciples, that they might ever keep in mind His lessons of humility and service. This ordinance is Christ's appointed preparation for the sacramental service. While pride, variance, and strife for supremacy are cherished, the heart cannot enter into fellowship with Christ. We are not prepared to receive the communion of His body and His blood. Therefore it was that Jesus appointed the memorial of His humiliation to be first observed.

    As they come to this ordinance, the children of God should bring to remembrance the words of the Lord of life and glory: "Know ye what I have done to you? Ye call Me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them." There is in man a disposition to esteem himself more highly than his brother, to work for self, to seek the highest place; and often this results in evil surmisings and bitterness of spirit. The ordinance preceding the Lord's Supper is to clear away these misunderstandings, to bring man out of his selfishness, down from his stilts of self-exaltation, to the humility of heart that will lead him to serve his brother.

    The holy Watcher from heaven is present at this season to make it one of soul searching, of conviction of sin, and of the blessed assurance of sins forgiven. Christ in the fullness of His grace is there to change the current of the thoughts that have been running in selfish channels. The Holy Spirit quickens the sensibilities of those who follow the example of their Lord. As the Saviour's humiliation for us is remembered, thought links with thought; a chain of memories is called up, memories of God's great goodness and of the favor and tenderness of earthly friends. Blessings forgotten, mercies abused, kindnesses slighted, are called to mind. Roots of bitterness that have crowded out the precious plant of love are made manifest. Defects of character, neglect of duties, ingratitude to God, coldness toward our brethren, are called to remembrance. Sin is seen in the light in which God views it. Our thoughts are not thoughts of self-complacency, but of severe self-censure and humiliation. The mind is energized to break down every barrier that has caused alienation. Evil thinking and evilspeaking are put away. Sins are confessed, they are forgiven. The subduing grace of Christ comes into the soul, and the love of Christ draws hearts together in a blessed unity. As the lesson of the preparatory service is thus learned, the desire is kindled for a higher spiritual life. To this desire the divine Witness will respond. The soul will be uplifted. We can partake of the Communion with a consciousness of sins forgiven. The sunshine of Christ's righteousness will fill the chambers of the mind and the soul temple. We "behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29.

    To those who receive the spirit of this service, it can never become a mere ceremonial. Its constant lesson will be, "By love serve one another." Gal. 5:13. In washing the feet of His disciples, Christ gave evidence that He would do any service, however humble, that would make them heirs with Him of the eternal wealth of heaven's treasure. His disciples, in performing the same rite, pledge themselves in like manner to serve their brethren. Whenever this ordinance is rightly celebrated, the children of God are brought into a holy relationship, to help and bless each other. They covenant that the life shall be given to unselfish ministry. And this, not only for one another. Their field of labor is as wide as their Master's was. The world is full of those who need our ministry. The poor, the helpless, the ignorant, are on every hand. Those who have communed with Christ in the upper chamber will go forth to minister as He did.

    Jesus, the served of all, came to be the servant of all. And because He ministered to all, He will again be served and honored by all. And those who would partake of His divine attributes, and share with Him the joy of seeing souls redeemed, must follow His example of unselfish ministry.

    All this was comprehended in the words of Jesus, "I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you." This was the intent of the service He established. And He says, "If ye know these things," if you know the purpose of His lessons, "happy are ye if ye do them."

    Chapter 72 "In Remembrance of Me" [This chapter is based on Matt. 26:20-29; Mark 14:17-25; Luke 22:14-23; John 13:18-30.]
    "The Lord Jesus the same night in which He was betrayed took bread: and when He had given thanks, He brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is My body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of Me. After the same manner also He took the cup, when He had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in My blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till He come." 1 Cor. 11:23-26.

    Christ was standing at the point of transition between two economies and their two great festivals. He, the spotless Lamb of God, was about to present Himself as a sin offering, that He would thus bring to an end the system of types and ceremonies that for four thousand years had pointed to His death. As He ate the Passover with His disciples, He instituted in its place the service that was to be the memorial of His great sacrifice. The national festival of the Jews was to pass away forever. The service which Christ established was to be observed by His followers in all lands and through all ages.

    The Passover was ordained as a commemoration of the deliverance of Israel from Egyptian bondage. God had directed that, year by year, as the children should ask the meaning of this ordinance, the history should be repeated. Thus the wonderful deliverance was to be kept fresh in the minds of all. The ordinance of the Lord's Supper was given to commemorate the great deliverance wrought out as the result of the death of Christ. Till He shall come the second time in power and glory, this ordinance is to be celebrated. It is the means by which His great work for us is to be kept fresh in our minds. At the time of their deliverance from Egypt, the children of Israel ate the Passover supper standing, with their loins girded, and with their staves in their hands, ready for their journey. The manner in which they celebrated this ordinance harmonized with their condition; for they were about to be thrust out of the land of Egypt, and were to begin a painful and difficult journey through the wilderness. But in Christ's time the condition of things had changed. They were not now about to be thrust out of a strange country, but were dwellers in their own land. In harmony with the rest that had been given them, the people then partook of the Passover supper in a reclining position. Couches were placed about the table, and the guests lay upon them, resting upon the left arm, and having the right hand free for use in eating. In this position a guest could lay his head upon the breast of the one who sat next above him. And the feet, being at the outer edge of the couch, could be washed by one passing around the outside of the circle.

    Christ is still at the table on which the paschal supper has been spread. The unleavened cakes used at the Passover season are before Him. The Passover wine, untouched by fermentation, is on the table. These emblems Christ employs to represent His own unblemished sacrifice. Nothing corrupted by fermentation, the symbol of sin and death, could represent the "Lamb without blemish and without spot." 1 Peter 1:19.

    "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is My body. And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."

    Judas the betrayer was present at the sacramental service. He received from Jesus the emblems of His broken body and His spilled blood. He heard the words, "This do in remembrance of Me." And sitting there in the very presence of the Lamb of God, the betrayer brooded upon his own dark purposes, and cherished his sullen, revengeful thoughts.

    At the feet washing, Christ had given convincing proof that He understood the character of Judas. "Ye are not all clean" (John 13:11),

    He said. These words convinced the false disciple that Christ read his secret purpose. Now Christ spoke out more plainly. As they were seated at the table He said, looking upon His disciples, "I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with Me hath lifted up his heel against Me."
    Even now the disciples did not suspect Judas. But they saw that Christ appeared greatly troubled. A cloud settled over them all, a premonition of some dreadful calamity, the nature of which they did not understand. As they ate in silence, Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray Me." At these words amazement and consternation seized them. They could not comprehend how any one of them could deal treacherously with their divine Teacher. For what cause could they betray Him? and to whom? Whose heart could give birth to such a design? Surely not one of the favored twelve, who had been privileged above all others to hear His teachings, who had shared His wonderful love, and for whom He had shown such great regard by bringing them into close communion with Himself!

    As they realized the import of His words, and remembered how true His sayings were, fear and self-distrust seized them. They began to search their own hearts to see if one thought against their Master were harbored there. With the most painful emotion, one after another inquired, "Lord, is it I?" But Judas sat silent. John in deep distress at last inquired, "Lord, who is it?" And Jesus answered, "He that dippeth his hand with Me in the dish, the same shall betray Me. The Son of man goeth as it is written of Him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born." The disciples had searched one another's faces closely as they asked, "Lord, is it I?" And now the silence of Judas drew all eyes to him. Amid the confusion of questions and expressions of astonishment, Judas had not heard the words of Jesus in answer to John's question. But now, to escape the scrutiny of the disciples, he asked as they had done, "Master, is it I?" Jesus solemnly replied, "Thou hast said."

    In surprise and confusion at the exposure of his purpose, Judas rose hastily to leave the room. "Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. . . . He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night." Night it was to the traitor as he turned away from Christ into the outer darkness.

    Until this step was taken, Judas had not passed beyond the possibility of repentance. But when he left the presence of his Lord and his fellow disciples, the final decision had been made. He had passed the boundary line. Wonderful had been the long-suffering of Jesus in His dealing with this tempted soul. Nothing that could be done to save Judas had been left undone. After he had twice covenanted to betray his Lord, Jesus still gave him opportunity for repentance. By reading the secret purpose of the traitor's heart, Christ gave to Judas the final, convincing evidence of His divinity. This was to the false disciple the last call to repentance. No appeal that the divine-human heart of Christ could make had been spared. The waves of mercy, beaten back by stubborn pride, returned in a stronger tide of subduing love. But although surprised and alarmed at the discovery of his guilt, Judas became only the more determined. From the sacramental supper he went out to complete the work of betrayal.

    In pronouncing the woe upon Judas, Christ also had a purpose of mercy toward His disciples. He thus gave them the crowning evidence of His Messiahship. "I tell you before it come," He said, "that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I AM." Had Jesus remained silent, in apparent ignorance of what was to come upon Him, the disciples might have thought that their Master had not divine foresight, and had been surprised and betrayed into the hands of the murderous mob. A year before, Jesus had told the disciples that He had chosen twelve, and that one was a devil. Now His words to Judas, showing that his treachery was fully known to his Master, would strengthen the faith of Christ's true followers during His humiliation. And when Judas should have come to his dreadful end, they would remember the woe that Jesus had pronounced upon the betrayer.

    And the Saviour had still another purpose. He had not withheld His ministry from him whom He knew to be a traitor. The disciples did not understand His words when He said at the feet washing, "Ye are not all clean," nor yet when at the table He declared, "He that eateth bread with Me hath lifted up his heel against Me." John 13:11, 18. But afterward, when His meaning was made plain, they had something to consider as to the patience and mercy of God toward the most grievously erring.

    Though Jesus knew Judas from the beginning, He washed his feet. And the betrayer was privileged to unite with Christ in partaking of the sacrament. A long-suffering Saviour held out every inducement for the sinner to receive Him, to repent, and to be cleansed from the defilement of sin. This example is for us. When we suppose one to be in error and sin, we are not to divorce ourselves from him. By no careless separation are we to leave him a prey to temptation, or drive him upon Satan's battleground. This is not Christ's method. It was because the disciples were erring and faulty that He washed their feet, and all but one of the twelve were thus brought to repentance.

    Christ's example forbids exclusiveness at the Lord's Supper. It is true that open sin excludes the guilty. This the Holy Spirit plainly teaches. 1 Cor. 5:11. But beyond this none are to pass judgment. God has not left it with men to say who shall present themselves on these occasions. For who can read the heart? Who can distinguish the tares from the wheat? "Let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup." For "whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord." "He that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body." 1 Cor. 11:28, 27, 29.

    When believers assemble to celebrate the ordinances, there are present messengers unseen by human eyes. There may be a Judas in the company, and if so, messengers from the prince of darkness are there, for they attend all who refuse to be controlled by the Holy Spirit. Heavenly angels also are present. These unseen visitants are present on every such occasion. There may come into the company persons who are not in heart servants of truth and holiness, but who may wish to take part in the service. They should not be forbidden. There are witnesses present who were present when Jesus washed the feet of the disciples and of Judas. More than human eyes beheld the scene.

    Christ by the Holy Spirit is there to set the seal to His own ordinance. He is there to convict and soften the heart. Not a look, not a thought of contrition, escapes His notice. For the repentant, brokenhearted one He is waiting. All things are ready for that soul's reception. He who washed the feet of Judas longs to wash every heart from the stain of sin.

    None should exclude themselves from the Communion because some who are unworthy may be present. Every disciple is called upon to participate publicly, and thus bear witness that he accepts Christ as a personal Saviour. It is at these, His own appointments, that Christ meets His people, and energizes them by His presence. Hearts and hands that are unworthy may even administer the ordinance, yet Christ is there to minister to His children. All who come with their faith fixed upon Him will be greatly blessed. All who neglect these seasons of divine privilege will suffer loss. Of them it may appropriately be said, "Ye are not all clean."

    In partaking with His disciples of the bread and wine, Christ pledged Himself to them as their Redeemer. He committed to them the new covenant, by which all who receive Him become children of God, and joint heirs with Christ. By this covenant every blessing that heaven could bestow for this life and the life to come was theirs. This covenant deed was to be ratified with the blood of Christ. And the administration of the Sacrament was to keep before the disciples the infinite sacrifice made for each of them individually as a part of the great whole of fallen humanity. But the Communion service was not to be a season of sorrowing. This was not its purpose. As the Lord's disciples gather about His table, they are not to remember and lament their shortcomings. They are not to dwell upon their past religious experience, whether that experience has been elevating or depressing. They are not to recall the differences between them and their brethren. The preparatory service has embraced all this. The self-examination, the confession of sin, the reconciling of differences, has all been done. Now they come to meet with Christ. They are not to stand in the shadow of the cross, but in its saving light. They are to open the soul to the bright beams of the Sun of Righteousness. With hearts cleansed by Christ's most precious blood, in full consciousness of His presence, although unseen, they are to hear His words, "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you." John 14:27.

    Our Lord says, Under conviction of sin, remember that I died for you. When oppressed and persecuted and afflicted for My sake and the gospel's, remember My love, so great that for you I gave My life. When your duties appear stern and severe, and your burdens too heavy to bear, remember that for your sake I endured the cross, despising the shame. When your heart shrinks from the trying ordeal, remember that your Redeemer liveth to make intercession for you.

    The Communion service points to Christ's second coming. It was designed to keep this hope vivid in the minds of the disciples. Whenever they met together to commemorate His death, they recounted how "He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom." In their tribulation they found comfort in the hope of their Lord's return. Unspeakably precious to them was the thought, "As often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till He come." 1 Cor. 11:26.

    These are the things we are never to forget. The love of Jesus, with its constraining power, is to be kept fresh in our memory. Christ has instituted this service that it may speak to our senses of the love of God that has been expressed in our behalf. There can be no union between our souls and God except through Christ. The union and love between brother and brother must be cemented and rendered eternal by the love of Jesus. And nothing less than the death of Christ could make His love efficacious for us. It is only because of His death that we can look with joy to His second coming. His sacrifice is the center of our hope. Upon this we must fix our faith.

    The ordinances that point to our Lord's humiliation and suffering are regarded too much as a form. They were instituted for a purpose. Our senses need to be quickened to lay hold of the mystery of godliness. It is the privilege of all to comprehend, far more than we do, the expiatory sufferings of Christ. "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," even so has the Son of man been lifted up, "that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:14, 15. To the cross of Calvary, bearing a dying Saviour, we must look. Our eternal interests demand that we show faith in Christ.

    Our Lord has said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you. . . . For My flesh is meat indeed, and My blood is drink indeed." John 6:53-55. This is true of our physical nature. To the death of Christ we owe even this earthly life. The bread we eat is the purchase of His broken body. The water we drink is bought by His spilled blood. Never one, saint or sinner, eats his daily food, but he is nourished by the body and the blood of Christ. The cross of Calvary is stamped on every loaf. It is reflected in every water spring. All this Christ has taught in appointing the emblems of His great sacrifice. The light shining from that Communion service in the upper chamber makes sacred the provisions for our daily life. The family board becomes as the table of the Lord, and every meal a sacrament.

    And how much more are Christ's words true of our spiritual nature. He declares, "Whoso eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, hath eternal life." It is by receiving the life for us poured out on Calvary's cross, that we can live the life of holiness. And this life we receive by receiving His word, by doing those things which He has commanded. Thus we become one with Him. "He that eateth My flesh," He says, "and drinketh My blood, dwelleth in Me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth Me, even he shall live by Me." John 6:54, 56, 57. To the holy Communion this scripture in a special sense applies. As faith contemplates our Lord's great sacrifice, the soul assimilates the spiritual life of Christ. That soul will receive spiritual strength from every Communion. The service forms a living connection by which the believer is bound up with Christ, and thus bound up with the Father. In a special sense it forms a connection between dependent human beings and God. As we receive the bread and wine symbolizing Christ's broken body and spilled blood, we in imagination join in the scene of Communion in the upper chamber. We seem to be passing through the garden consecrated by the agony of Him who bore the sins of the world. We witness the struggle by which our reconciliation with God was obtained. Christ is set forth crucified among us.

    Looking upon the crucified Redeemer, we more fully comprehend the magnitude and meaning of the sacrifice made by the Majesty of heaven. The plan of salvation is glorified before us, and the thought of Calvary awakens living and sacred emotions in our hearts. Praise to God and the Lamb will be in our hearts and on our lips; for pride and self-worship cannot flourish in the soul that keeps fresh in memory the scenes of Calvary.

    He who beholds the Saviour's matchless love will be elevated in thought, purified in heart, transformed in character. He will go forth to be a light to the world, to reflect in some degree this mysterious love. The more we contemplate the cross of Christ, the more fully shall we adopt the language of the apostle when he said, "God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world." Gal. 6:14.
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:29 am

    That sounds like fun, Susan, but it sounds more complex and abstract than the average-person would take the time and effort to understand. I basically wish for people to become mental and spiritual giants -- by whatever works for them. I have tried to be somewhat liturgically-conservative and doctrinally-liberal -- to attempt to unify humanity -- while allowing for pluralism and infinite-diversity. I am attempting to be both idealistic and pragmatic. I am attempting to accomplish Heaven on Earth through evolutionary-change rather than revolutionary or apocalyptic change. I frankly have HUGE problems with the eternal-loss or eternal-punishment of even one soul. I have no problem with incarceration and education -- even though some might even object to these much-milder corrective-measures. Will Titan become the New Prison-Planet?? Damned if I know. They never tell me anything. I sometimes feel as if I'm trying to be a composite of the Stargate SG-1 team!! I really like the idea of living and working in a base under the U.S. Air-Force Academy!! But I'd still like to spend some quality-time with the Jesuits on Mt. Graham!! What Would Graham Maxwell Say?? I think Dr. Maxwell would understand this thread. I think I'm simultaneously smart and stupid -- but if I weren't so distressed, I think I'd be a fracking-genius!! I'm more burned-out than sloppy and stupid. You have NO idea. I continue to think that even if most of the mythologies and theologies are mostly fictional -- that there are absolutely factual theological realities -- but that these realities might drive most of us insane -- hence the lies and half-truths. "What is one to do -- when to rule men it is necessary to deceive them??" What Would Helena Blavatsky Say?? What Would the Queen of Heaven Say?? Reality might be MUCH stranger than fiction. Just more speculation.
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    THEeXchanger wrote:what would blavatsky say
    yeah, what would blavatsky say...
    she did get her best answers from her main spirit guide Wink
    THEeXchanger wrote:being average means you are as close to the bottom as you are to the top
    so, that means 7.2 billion people = 3,600,000.000 less than average,
    and, 3,600,000,000 better than average
    -so, i think this world needs something better than 'a just average' solution

    you seem stuck in a lot of 'i'...'i'...'i'
    -instead of looking at solutions of 'we'

    you write in a lot of big words
    that might mean something to 1% of the population
    yet, i think you want to appeal to 99% of the people

    i am NO dummy,
    but, i don't know what
    pluralism and infinite-diversity
    even are ???

    most of this world,
    or, about 80% of the people
    actually earn less than $5.00 per day
    and, don't live the world you and, i are a part of

    what is the division of religions?
    there are many of them
    - the catholic church just stated they have 1.2 billion members ?
    - the hindi, buddhist etc., must have about 3 billion followers
    - the muslims are growing fast
    - some say the athesists, new age, gnostics, wiccan/pagan/neo-pagan, native american
    just might hold 1/3 of the worlds population - and, could actually swing the religious world
    in ways, that have yet to be seen

    ironically, we at a point, that is NOT unlike the times of francis of assisi
    - which means, that anyone doesn't align with the catholic church
    like the cathars, the templars, etc., NEED to be slaughtered
    - its a real scary thought
    since many souls on earth right now, have lived through this many, many times before
    and, by the looks of things, history is going to repeat itself

    if you are going to offer evolutionary-change
    where is your roadmap ???
    you must have one,
    because you don't seem very interested in looking at anyone else ideas or plans
    ~ you kind of just fluff off anyone with any ideas

    and, one of the first things i learned
    was, that 'good work' requires 'many people'
    and, it involves 'support circles'
    where there are 12 different positions, you need to learn to play equally well

    you say, you have HUGE problems with the eternal-loss or eternal-punishment of even one soul
    ...I am NOT where you come up with that idea, i do NOT see where i mentioned that ?

    however, i do have a problem with incarceration,
    and, you say, you do NOT

    did you KNOW prison is one of america's biggest businesses
    because there are currently more native american, black, hispanic, asian & white people
    in jail, then were ever killed or were slaves

    - jail is the 'new' legal slave business

    personally, i do have a problem with that

    esp since (one in about 120 people are in jail)

    the people in jail, have the jobs

    people who are NOT in jail deserve those jobs

    & the other jobs, are shipped to asia

    & sadly most manufacturing jobs, do NOT exist anymore

    the asians come to america to go to school, and, then, they go home
    - and, export themselves a job that belongs
    to a north american

    or, you get arrested for a crime
    so, you can go to school for free
    that isn't right either

    i find it rather ironic,
    that you say, you are distressed, a genius, burned-out
    and, you reject others ?

    -surprisingly, many proofs are starting to surface that
    a lot people were NOT legends, but were 'real' accounts of 'real' people

    and, if something is myth-than its archetype, and, there is a lot to learn about archetypes

    we need to deal in 'real' truth
    ironically, we live in a world were 'real' truth is rejected, ignored, ridiculed, etc.,
    almost as if, most people do NOT want any kind of real answers
    -so, sadly they are given away for free,
    which in this world, has little or NO value to the people
    who are working hard to get your money, through new age b.s. scams
    - some of those people who died; or almost died in sedona, az - paid up to $10,000 to be at that event
    with the illegal sweat lodge

    yet, they all say they want love,
    and, the real language of love is relations...
    so, that is going to require a little bit of mathematics that workds

    i'll come back; and; add a little more later
    i'm not an eloquent writer like you,
    but do NOT confuse that,
    for a lack of 'real' knowledge

    just because someone can write in big long words
    doesn't mean they are a genius
    and, there are quite a few people who can score in every category in the 99th percentile
    and, fail only in the english written word category

    anyway - those are a few of my own thoughts
    more a little later
    THEeXchanger wrote:i am going to go to this thread:
    AND, instead of looking at who said what/or why
    i am simply going to try to mine out = the truth

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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:32 am

    Thank-you for the passionate critique, Susan. This thread is really sort of a diary -- so it is rather personal -- and rather private -- because very few individuals (human and otherwise) actually read it. I mostly point to the work of others -- and add some of my thoughts to their insights. I'm constantly saying "I Don't Know" -- and not as a becoming-humility -- I truly do NOT know. This thread is really written in plain English -- but as I keep pointing-out -- I am presenting a personality which is NOT me. I'm NOT like this in real-life at all. This thread is Political and Theological Science-Fiction. It's sort of my attempt to think the Queen of Heaven's thoughts after her -- in the context of Gizeh-Intelligence -- and that's the truth. I guess I'm trying to be the "Michael" character in a Gabriel v Lucifer v Michael debate in an Underground Palace, Temple, or Base. I have NO idea what I'm doing. I just thought this sort of thing should be given some attention -- but I wish every day that I had never started this passive quest. I think I might've made myself the target of some of the Big-Guns in the solar system -- or even beyond. I think I was in BIG trouble before I started this online madness -- but now I think I'm REALLY screwed. I just keep hoping that someone with more brains and emotional-stability than I have -- can use my tripe as a launching-pad for some really beneficial research as they search for a useable-future. Anyway, I think that now I shall spend some quality time reading the Thuban Q&A from the Old Project Avalon site. That thread was quite simple and easy for even me to understand. But first, I think I'll watch Matt a few times!! BTW -- over the past several years -- I have asked literally hundreds (or even thousands) of questions -- and probably 2% of them have been answered. Often, the comments are hostile and/or off-topic -- but I appreciate them just the same. I sometimes think that I'm really trying to connect with those in the City-States, the United Nations, the Underground Bases, and the Darkside of the Moon -- and I am being VERY serious when I say this. This might help to explain why I try to use BIG words.

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 56
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    The Powers That Be Are You and Me. The We That We See is the We That We'll Be. Our Planet is How We Plan It. We Shall Overcome Someday Soon. We Shall Turn This Purgatory Into a Paradise. Those Who Are Not Here to Help Should Exit This Solar System Immediately. Responsible Freedom Fighters Unite. The Solar System Exorcism Should Be Continuous and Relentless. Visualize a Perfected Humanity Living in a Perfected Solar System. Defectors From All Factions Are Welcome in the United States of the Solar System. A Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System Will Be Eden Restored. This Present Darkness Will Become Brighter Than the Noonday Sunshine. There's Still Time to Change the Road You're On. The Truth is Setting Us Free. We Are the Solar System. Sun. Fun. Stay. Play. Solar System Without End. The Kingdom of God is a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System Party. "Man has been trained to believe that which he is told - whether it is truth or a lie, to the point now that man is simply a victim of the lies. May light come forth that you may recover your pathway to truth." "Only at the close of the present major cycle will the whole world join together in the sweetest hymn ever sung upon Earth: a divine anthem of international co-operation, global goodwill, and united spiritual purpose." Something is a Brewing. Hmmmmmmm.

    Perhaps no matter how Solar System Governance is set up - there will always be huge problems and major dissatisfaction. It just seems to me that we should be honest regarding our predicament - and regarding our opportunities. If every concept and proposal contained in this thread were implemented - things would probably remain highly problematic. I'd like to think that things would improve significantly - but 'improve' is a relative term. I guess I like the idea of Kaizen - or continual improvement. Things can always be improved upon. Again - I would like to retain the best which history has to offer - and discard the worst. My talk of a Solar System Exorcism is really not vengeful or hateful in nature. I simply wish to disempower those who are screwing things up at the deepest, lowest, and highest levels. I like the idea of prosecution, incarceration, restitution, and reeducation - rather than cruel, unusual, or capital punishments. There is so much I don't know about the history of governance, religion, theocracy, technology, atrocity, warfare, races, genetic hybridization, various conflicts, etc, etc, etc. I continue to fly blind. I'm learning - little by little - but I am certainly not the answer. I become more and more disgusted with myself - day after day. I am not attempting to be self-righteous in this thread. I am really trying to get up to speed with the current Powers That Be. Despite the corruption, infiltration, subversion, blackmail, etc, etc - the individuals who presently run this solar system are undoubtedly highly intelligent - even though this often does not seem to be the case. If I were in their shoes - things might be even worse!! I have done a lot of speculating about Lucifer, and various Gods and Goddesses. I think this is an important part of the puzzle - but I don't really know what the hell has really been going on. However, I do think this is an area which should be exhaustively studied. I think I have gotten a lot closer to the truth over the last couple of years - but I think I'm just scratching the surface. I keep thinking that Lucifer, Gods, Goddesses, et al - need to have less to say - and that the people of the world need to have more to say - regarding solar system governance. Rule by secrecy, deception, coercion, terrorism, warfare, intrigue, corruption, etc, etc. - seems highly, highly problematic to me. But again - everyone and everything is undoubtedly a mixture of good and evil. None is righteous. No - not one. I've tried to stick to the facts and issues - rather than making any of this personal. But I have been somewhat irreverent, rude, and even sarcastic at times. I appologize to anyone whom I may have hurt in doing so. I really mean no harm. I just wanted to look at things in a way that no one else seemed to be - in the hope that I would learn something new - and that others might benefit from my mental masturbation. I have climbed higher - and sunk lower. So far - it all seems to be a wash. Perhaps the best we can do is to find more sane ways to manage the insanity.
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    Solar System Governance is Quite the Hornet's Nest. Researchers and Reformers Beware...
    So...what does it take to be taken seriously? Serious money? Business as usual? Politics as usual? Should I learn to throw my weight around - instead of attempting to speak softly - with reason and logic? Will the corrupt continue to rule the stupid? Is pain and suffering the cost of doing business in the universe? What is one to do - when attempting to free men from tyrannical rule - no one listens? Is it time to take off the gloves? Is it time to use the ways of the world to do the work of God? Someone just gave me a copy of 'The Art of War' by Sun Tzu. Perhaps I should read it...
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    I never know what to think of photographs, these days, with PhotoShop, and such. I don't see why this solar system can't be a paradise. But there seems to be:

    1. An Annunaki Faction which wishes to exterminate the Human Race.
    2. An Annunaki Faction which has been exploiting the Human Race - while fighting with the other Annunaki faction - to see who gets to be the Masters of the Universe.
    3. A Responsible Human Faction - who seems to have been driven off-world thousands of years ago.
    4. An Ignorant and Irresponsible Human Faction - who seems to be living on this Prison Planet called Earth.

    Consider the possibility of: (Extraterrestrial Humans + Extraterrestrial Hybrids) vs (Terrestrial Humans + Terrestrial Hybrids)

    Unfortunately, I get the impression that everyone hates the Terrestrial Humans (Us). As I keep posting on this thread - I keep feeling that I am fighting for the survival of the best aspects of the Human Race - or simply for survival. Period. What was the Original Sin? What is the solution for the Original Sin and Karmic Debt - other than Slavery and Death???

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    Did Regressive Interdimensional Reptilians deceive the Human Race (by promising them freedom and enlightenment?) into creating a Genetic Hybridization Program to give the Regressive Interdimensional Reptilians Hybrid Bodies? Who bears ultimate responsibility for what seems to be a Hybridization Program Gone Bad? Are the two Annunaki Factions under the direction of even more powerful beings? Check this out, and tell me what you think. One more thing. What is the relationship between Jesus and Lucifer? Just wondering. Namaste.
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    Who would be the winners and the losers in a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom United States of the Solar System? I'd like to think that everyone would be a winner over the long haul. There might seem to be a stratification of winners and losers in the short term - but I think things would even out - long term. All of the ancient Star Wars, Masters of the Universe, Hybridization, and Technology issues would obviously have to be resolved. They could not just be swept under the rug - so to speak. How might all of this be peacefully resolved - without the erruption of brand-new Star Wars? The forces and hatred in this universe might be deeper and more powerful than we can possibly imagine. I intend to pursue a peaceful solution by promoting the spirit and letter of this thread. I am presently reading 'The Art of War' by Sun Tzu. I intend to win without fighting. I will attempt to be a Peaceful Intellectual General. The gloves are coming off - and I will be much more aggressive in the promotion of Responsible Freedom. The regressives won't know what hit them. It will be over before it starts. In fact - it might already be a fait accompli or a cou de gras or a never mind...Q.E.D.

    magamud wrote:Thanks for publicizing your diary Ortho. I dont know why people get offended with your questions or curiosities. You say you dont know and in my book that is the first step in understanding yourself and a place to work with others. Your speech speaks to the common man, of God given inalienable rights, freedom and the oppression of Tyranny that is running rampant in our system. Have most do gooders put the cart before the horse? I think of it as Triage Tyranny. If one cant understand the precepts of Liberty, tyranny will prevail no matter how philanthropic your endeavor is. Why cant people come together?
    Thank-you magamud. I think my approach ends-up making everyone mad. I know that I'm venturing into some very sensitive areas in a somewhat irreverent manner. I'm probably trying to break the ice -- but I doubt this is appreciated. But really, I think I'm a lot more sensitive and fair than most people (or other than people). I am not seeking a wider audience -- other than wishing that at some appropriate point that some of the ideas expressed in this thread MIGHT be used in some sort of science-fiction series. That's probably too arrogant or high-minded -- but I still think it would be sort of cool. Unfortunately, I don't have the insiders-perspective to know what might work or might not work. I'm really trying to help make things better -- regardless of whether it seems like it or not. Right now, I'm imagining living and working in a 600 square-foot office-apartment under the U.S. Air-Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colorado -- mostly doing what I'm doing right now -- but with more resources -- and with more of an insiders-perspective. But really, I am very worried about who is REALLY in charge of the Shadowy-Underworld. I would wish to make sure that I was working for the right boss -- and that I was NOT selling my soul to you-know-who. BTW -- A Regime-Change might NOT solve the solar-system's problems. It MIGHT even make things worse. Operating on an inoperable brain-tumor might be a bad idea -- if you know what I mean. Beware of Poison-Pills, Scorched-Earth Policies, and Killer-Asteroids Piloted by Devil-Babies!!!

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    Carol wrote:
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    magamud wrote:Ya asteroids are bad enough. You dont need to throw in Devil Babies. Boy talk about drama queens...

    That Thuban thread is a blast from the past. It would be interesting to have Abraxas back here on this thread to continue the contrast of ideas. Abraxas has fantastic insight like Ortho. Great sight on human behavior and a world view.
    There are aspects of the abraxasinas and Thuban thing that I really appreciate -- yet I still have a very difficult time getting into it, and understanding it. I've frankly tried to use some of their style and methodology in this thread. I have even reposted large portions of Thuban material on this thread. This thread is NOT all about me -- despite my staged attitude. I'm trying very hard to be mostly on everyone's side -- even though I know this is impossible. I'd really like to somehow end this thread. I keep trying to ease the pain by posting proposed solutions -- yet this never helps. It just seems to make things worse. Here are some videos which might be helpful to someone:

    1. Pope John Paul II
    2. The Passion of the Christ
    3. Lewis Walton: The Trial of Jesus
    3. Paul the Apostle
    4. Out of the Blue
    5. Cleopatra (1999)

    This should keep some of us out of trouble for a while!! Sometimes I wonder if I were an insider is a previous life -- and went insane because of what I saw and heard?! That wouldn't surprise me at all. I also wonder if I might've been a bad@ss of some note who grew a conscience and became a liability because of being 'too good'?! Perhaps there are some very good reasons why I'm on the outside -- looking in -- or at least trying to look in. The insiders might not want me to start another War in Heaven!! I still think that the Archangelic and Constitutional focus of this thread is appropriate and necessary -- but it frankly scares the hell out of me when I think of the implications and ramifications...
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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:22 pm

    Now THAT'S Funny!!! Thank-you Susan!!! Regarding our recent conversation, I am attempting to model a particular perspective and approach in this thread -- so it is more exclusive, harsh, and close-minded than I am in real-life -- as I "boldly go where no fool has gone before". Again, this is more about creating a frame of mind and a frame of reference -- as a launching-pad for finding the Real-Answers. This is only the beginning. Others are undoubtedly doing the real solar system governance heavy-lifting. I still think it would be cool to live and work under the U.S. Air-Force Academy -- as a composite of the Stargate SG-1 Team, a USAFA Cadet, and Palmer Joss. You know -- as sort of an Ecumenical Insider-Chaplain -- who would dress and act like a Cadet -- living and working in a 600 square-foot apartment-office -- year after year -- in perpetuity. Do you see my point?? Would Colorado Springs be a reasonable location for the Headquarters of the United States of the Solar System?? It would be vitally-important to have EVERYONE in the solar-system properly represented -- which is why I thought 10,000 USSS Representatives might be required and desired. The King and Queen Co-President Concept is intended to ensure Equal Male and Female Royal-Model Representation and Leadership. No one should be cut-out, cut-off, or cut-loose. I mean NO favoritism with my use of locations and institutions (which I am somewhat familiar with) for illustrative purposes. I simply don't want us to blow each-other to heaven or hell. I have high-hopes for Earth and Humanity -- regardless of our nasty and violent history -- and regardless of prophecy and fate. Consider "Conditional-Prophecy" very carefully. Again, I support Interracial, International, Interplanetary, Intergalactic Cooperation -- and even War-Games -- BUT I HATE WAR. WAR IS A SIN. One More Thing. How did you locate your new avatar, magamud?? I saw that image as I was doing an image search a couple of hours ago -- and I thought it was really cool -- and then I noticed that you had just selected it as your new avatar. Interesting.

    THEeXchanger wrote:what would blavatsky say
    yeah, what would blavatsky say...
    she did get her best answers from her main spirit guide Wink

    Perhaps Helena got her best answers from you! Just a crazy thought!
    THEeXchanger wrote:what if the parables just are NOT things people get very easy ?

    This is a huge problem in philosophy and religion -- people are too busy or impatient to really research and reflect. One almost needs to be a Religious Studies professor to properly study the parables.

    - what if you created a relation
    - and, then sync'd that to proven mathematical / relation formulas
    and, people understood it
    - might that be easier to get ?

    I think this would be even more problematic for people. I'm sure there is a mathematical component to scripture -- especially in apocalyptic literature -- but I doubt that there are many people who bother with such things -- even though they probably should.

    THEeXchanger wrote:being average means you are as close to the bottom as you are to the top
    so, that means 7.2 billion people = 3,600,000.000 less than average,
    and, 3,600,000,000 better than average - so, i think this world needs something better than 'a just average' solution.

    I was referring to the average-person -- not to average-solutions.

    you seem stuck in a lot of 'i'...'i'...'i'
    -instead of looking at solutions of 'we'

    This reminds me of a post someone made on the old Project Avalon site -- which was critical of me -- and they used the same "I"..."I"..."I" -- but I don't think it was you -- unless you had more than one screen-name. Sometimes I wonder if a lot of you are all one. I use "I" a lot because I get bored when I'm not talking about myself!! Just kidding!! This thread is a diary and an expression of the way I feel about things -- with an emphasis on the experiential and the intuitive. But really, you need to be fair here -- most of the material in my threads are the work of others.

    you write in a lot of big words
    that might mean something to 1% of the population
    yet, i think you want to appeal to 99% of the people

    Most of what I post is really straightforward -- but I occasionally get sophisticated, technical, and academic. I truly think that the very few humans (and other than humans) who regularly view this thread use big words a lot. These words must've been included in the dictionary for a reason.

    i am NO dummy,
    but, i don't know what
    pluralism and infinite-diversity
    even are ???

    Basically -- I am thinking in terms of the Latin Mass combined with the 1928 Book of Common Prayer and Sacred Classical Music -- as being Liturgically Conservative and Ecumenically Innovative. Sorry for more big words. Then, I mostly leave it up to people to arrive at their own theological and philosophical understandings -- without cramming a certain brand of religion down their throats, or burning anyone at the stake. It's basically keeping one thing constant -- while allowing for a wide variety of understandings. I would like to reunite Protestantism and Catholicism with a Minimalist-Traditionalist approach -- but this scares me to the core of my being.

    most of this world,
    or, about 80% of the people
    actually earn less than $5.00 per day
    and, don't live the world you and, i are a part of

    This is why I want a proper Solar System Government -- which properly represents everyone.

    what is the division of religions?
    there are many of them
    - the catholic church just stated they have 1.2 billion members ?
    - the hindi, buddhist etc., must have about 3 billion followers
    - the muslims are growing fast
    - some say the athesists, new age, gnostics, wiccan/pagan/neo-pagan, native american
    just might hold 1/3 of the worlds population - and, could actually swing the religious world
    in ways, that have yet to be seen

    I'd like to unite as many religions as possible -- without forcing anyone to think or do anything.

    ironically, we at a point, that is NOT unlike the times of francis of assisi
    - which means, that anyone doesn't align with the catholic church
    like the cathars, the templars, etc., NEED to be slaughtered
    - its a real scary thought since many souls on earth right now, have lived through this many, many times before
    and, by the looks of things, history is going to repeat itself.

    I agree. I keep telling people to read The Great Controversy and The Gods of Eden. There seems to be a faction of the Gods which is against humanity as we know it -- and perhaps for some legitimate reasons -- but I think we need to move-on and make the human-race the best that it can possibly be -- while learning from the harsh lessons of the past and present. This experiment in physicality and freedom should NOT be flushed down some black-hole.

    if you are going to offer evolutionary-change where is your roadmap ??? you must have one, because you don't seem very interested in looking at anyone else ideas or plans ~ you kind of just fluff off anyone with any ideas and, one of the first things i learned was, that 'good work' requires 'many people' and, it involves 'support circles' where there are 12 different positions, you need to learn to play equally well.

    I don't have a roadmap. I'm making this up as I go insane. Every situation is different. I simply think everyone should focus on Responsibility -- even though I am highly irresponsible.

    you say, you have HUGE problems with the eternal-loss or eternal-punishment of even one soul...I am NOT where you come up with that idea, i do NOT see where i mentioned that ?

    I didn't imply that you suggested that -- but I find it curious that you reacted somewhat defensively. A lot of religions teach this sort of harsh-justice.

    however, i do have a problem with incarceration, and, you say, you do NOT. did you KNOW prison is one of america's biggest businesses because there are currently more native american, black, hispanic, asian & white people in jail, then were ever killed or were slaves - jail is the 'new' legal slave business personally, i do have a problem with that esp since (one in about 120 people are in jail) the people in jail, have the jobs people who are NOT in jail deserve those jobs & the other jobs, are shipped to asia & sadly most manufacturing jobs, do NOT exist anymore the asians come to america to go to school, and, then, they go home - and, export themselves a job that belongs to a north american or, you get arrested for a crime
    so, you can go to school for free that isn't right either

    I believe in a proper system of rewards and punishments. Proper law and ethics should be applied to the solar system -- with reasonable rewards and punishments -- which might include jail or prison, comined with community service, and some sort of study, which might prevent the prisoner from returning to jail or prison.

    i find it rather ironic, that you say, you are distressed, a genius, burned-out and, you reject others ?

    I evaluate others -- and I give credit where credit is due -- and I reject what doesn't make sense.-

    surprisingly, many proofs are starting to surface that a lot people were NOT legends, but were 'real' accounts of 'real' people
    and, if something is myth-than its archetype, and, there is a lot to learn about archetypes.

    To me, history is always suspect -- as the victors write the history books. The truth is not always found in a book. The Quest of the Historical Jesus by Albert Schweitzer is an example of a scholarly work which casts doubt upon traditional views concerning Jesus Christ. I have my own theories.

    we need to deal in 'real' truth ironically, we live in a world were 'real' truth is rejected, ignored, ridiculed, etc.,
    almost as if, most people do NOT want any kind of real answers -so, sadly they are given away for free, which in this world, has little or NO value to the people who are working hard to get your money, through new age b.s. scams - some of those people who died; or almost died in sedona, az - paid up to $10,000 to be at that event with the illegal sweat lodge yet, they all say they want love, and, the real language of love is, that is going to require a little bit of mathematics that workds.

    Giving people what they want -- and telling them what they wish to hear seems to work wonders regarding maximizing fame, fortune, power, and pleasure. The truth is SO overrated.

    i'll come back; and; add a little more later i'm not an eloquent writer like you, but do NOT confuse that, for a lack of 'real' knowledge just because someone can write in big long words doesn't mean they are a genius and, there are quite a few people who can score in every category in the 99th percentile and, fail only in the english written word category

    I freely admit that I'm a pseudointellectual completely-ignorant fool -- but I try to write well. All I'm saying is that I'm a shelluva guy -- and that if I weren't exhausted and despondant all of the time -- I'd be a helluva lot smarter and much more successful.

    anyway - those are a few of my own thoughts more a little later
    THEeXchanger wrote:i am going to go to this thread: AND, instead of looking at who said what/or why i am simply going to try to mine out = the truth

    Susan, a couple of years ago I think I encouraged you to summarize your research and insights in the form of a book. Have you written any books?? If not, you should. I promise to buy a copy of every book you've written -- as long as the total doesn't exceed a dozen! I think I read most of your posts -- and I actually thought so much of them that I started a thread right here in the Mists based on one of your threads from the old Avalon -- but you put a stop to that -- and I don't remember why exactly. I think I understood most of your posts, and a lot of my posts reflect what I learned from yours. I am both for and against humanity. I am in sort of a non-productive vegetative-state as I try to face reality. My house and finances are a mess -- and I exist in a living-hell. But still, I seem to make very little progress with figuring things out. I have no teeth -- no brains -- and several other crosses to bear. So, what about the billions of people who don't know or care -- and don't even know that they don't know or care?? Do I really think they're going to "get-it" when the shi+ hits the fan??? I have tried to use the subject of "Solar System Governance" to gain a clearer insight into the way things really are -- but the results have been mixed. I have nothing to show for this -- other than a few internet threads -- and a shattered life. I try to keep-up with everyone's posts on this web-site -- but I often have a difficult time keeping-up with my own posting, as I seek to reinvent myself. I am truly a "nobody" trying to be a " somebody" -- and this is quite sad. I still think you need to condense your material into a series of books. I listened to one of your shows -- and I really liked it. Your voice and thoughts were very therapeutic. I even combined this show with ocean-sounds!! Anyway, this world has always been screwed-up and the human-race seems to be on the brink of extinction -- even if few recognize this reality. I presently think all of our options are bad -- and that there is no "good-way" out of this madness. Just get some books published -- and hopefully a critical mass of people will " get-it" with your help. Perhaps I'll catch the Thuban-Bug some day -- but I just can't stay with it right now. I'm trying to rebuild my life with the Political and Theological Paradigm I'm creating in this thread. It's just a start. I'm very disillusioned with politics and religion as usual. Namaste.
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Ghandi_truth_inspiration
    Consider the following areas of ethics-studies:

    1. Ethics of Economics.
    2. Ethics of Entertainment.
    3. Ethics of Eschatology.

    Consider the following areas of research -- and their interrelationships:

    1. Psychology.
    2. Ethics.
    3. Politics.
    4. Religion.
    5. Business.
    6. Law.
    7. Law-Enforcement.
    8. The Military.

    Consider the following Books of the Bible -- and their interrelationships:

    1. Genesis.
    2. Deuteronomy.
    3. The Psalms.
    4. Daniel.
    5. Matthew.
    6. John.
    7. Hebrews.
    8. Revelation.

    Regarding my current fantasy of having an office-apartment under the U.S. Air Force Academy -- I'm thinking of this Room Without a View as being 700 feet below the Cadet Chapel -- just like the Underground Resistance Base in Earth: Final Conflict -- but this might be unrealistic. Who knows?? I'm trying to combine the realities of the USAFA with the United States of the Solar System -- Stargate SG-1 -- and Earth: Final Conflict. When I spoke of a 600 square-foot office-apartment -- this was just an arbitrary size. It might be 300 square-feet -- 600 square-feet -- or 900 square-feet -- I have NO idea what's realistic. It's just fun to think about. Wearing a Cadet Uniform might be unrealistic as well -- but formal attire helps create a certain attitude. Again, this is just a semi-serious mind-game. However, I keep getting the feeling that this version of my madness is somehow prophetic. I seem to remember thinking or dreaming about something like this a long time ago. It's really weird. If something like this were actually to occur -- I think there would be a helluva lot of resentment -- and even deep-seated hatred. Being a Completely Ignorant Outsider is probably bliss compared to being a Deep Underground Insider. I tend to think that the novelty would wear-off rather quickly. I feel ZERO animosity toward those who currently run the show in this solar system -- even though I suspect that all has NOT been well in this regard -- for a very long time. I know the kind of person I'd like to be in this solar system -- but I'm probably too soft -- too slow -- too stubborn -- and too stupid to really pull it off -- especially in this stupid incarnation. Better luck next incarnation. Right?! I'll just keep trying to think about what most people don't think about -- from everyone's perspective. I still don't know who the good guys and bad guys really are. Appearances and Presuppositions can be VERY deceptive. Here is one prophetic-version of orthodoxymoron arguing with the Queen of Heaven about Solar System Governance. Notice the similarity between Lilly (in Star Trek: First Contact) and Rachel Constantine (in Contact). Try combining these two characters with Anna (in V).
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Star-Trek-First-Contact-1996-movie-props
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 600full-star-trek%3A-first-contact-screenshot
    "Which Way Did Orthodoxy-Moron Go??!!"
    Consider this expanded study-list. Expect me to keep coming up with various and sundry lists. Those who make lists are on lists. The watchers are being watched. The Elites are probably the biggest threats to the Real Powers That Be. Most of those who think they're in charge -- probably aren't. We are all probably deluded by a diversity of illusions of grandeur, power, and democracy. I seriously doubt that we are as powerful and free as we'd like to think we are. My passive quest is my attempt to provide another perspective for the Powers That Be -- and for We the Peons. We need to consider very carefully the possibility that throughout history -- right up to this very day -- that the God(s) have made things exactly the way they have wanted things to be -- regardless of the hopes, prayers, and efforts of humanity. What if the Gods are a mixture of love, hate, competence, incompetence, sanity, insanity, good, and evil??? Once again, the mythologies, theologies, and philosophies throughout history might mask the true and unbearable theological realities. Even Jesus said "I have many things to tell you -- but you can't bear them." I create this thread with no illusions of importance or effectiveness. I simply feel compelled to attempt to make things better for all concerned -- even though this is probably an exercise in futility. I keep getting the sinking-feeling that no matter how we put things together -- it will always be wrong -- and possibly by Divine Design. Please do not interpret these words as Rebellion Against the Gods. I am simply attempting to Face Reality. Be very careful when identifying and defining "God", "Jesus", "Holy-Spirit", "Evil-Spirits", "Satan", "Devil", "Lucifer", "Gabriel", "Michael", "Angels", "Demons", "Archangels", et al. Be very careful indeed. Beware of overlaps and multiple-roles. Be Aware of Perceptions, Perspectives, and Contexts. Think about that while watching this and this.

    1. Genesis.
    2. Exodus.
    3. Deuteronomy.
    4. Psalms.
    5. Proverbs.
    6. Isaiah.
    7. Daniel.
    8. Matthew.
    9. Mark.
    10. Luke.
    11. John.
    12. Acts.
    13. Romans.
    14. Hebrews.
    15. Revelation.
    16. The Latin Mass.
    17. The 1928 Book of Common Prayer.
    18. The Desire of Ages.
    19. The Great Controversy.
    20. The Gods of Eden.
    21. The U.S. Air Force Academy.
    22. Stargate SG-1.
    23. Earth: Final Conflict.
    24. The United States of the Solar System.
    25. Sacred Classical Music.
    26. An Astronomy-Centered Interdisciplinary Study of Life, the Universe, and Everything.


    Posts : 11441
    Join date : 2010-09-28
    Location : The Matrix

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Empty Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:31 pm

    I deal in possibilities and probabilities. I am a possibility thinker - but I am both a positive and a negative thinker. I'm rapidly turning this solar system into one big set for my own semi-private science fiction show -- and I'm finding a lot of supporting evidence for a lot of the possibilities. Sometimes we have to 'believe' it before we can 'see' it. I just re-watched the second 'V' show of the second season - and I liked it a lot more than the first episode. 'V' really just helps me to use my imagination. I've also rewatched 'Independence Day'. I seem to be fixated upon the Queen of Heaven - in positive and negative ways. Was/is she Amen Ra's boss - or is she ALL of the gods and goddesses - including Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, Hathor, Isis, Mary, the Prince of This World, the God of This World - and Amen Ra? I'm trying to utilize Occam's Razor to cut the crap - and I'm trying to eliminate Hegel and Machiavelli -- but I really like Sun Tzu. Watch this lecture by Robert Morningsky. Listen especially to what he says about Amen Ra's boss. It fits with what I have been speculating about for several years now. Ra might be the One and Only God of This World - but there seems to be a Reptilian Queen of Heaven - who seems to wear the pants in this Solar System. Who is Ra - really? Who is Lucifer - really? Who is Jesus - really? Who is Mary - really? Who is Kali - really? Ra Ka Pharaoh = Rockefeller? Ra's Shield = Rothschild? Ra's Legion = Religion? Old and New Test(Amen)ts? Think, think, think. Once again - please forgive my slightly irreverent and off-color humor. I really mean no disrespect to anyone. I'm just trying to break the ice. Can the Queen inhabit dozens of various bodies - century after century - male and female? Could her soul be similar or even identical to our souls? Did Humans start the hostilities - or was it the other way around? I'm surprisingly neutral regarding all of this. I feel like the interviewer in the 'Reptilian-Interview' below. Perhaps someday I will be involved in such an interview. I don't know why I said that. What does the Queen of Heaven look like? Is she fundamentally a Reptilian-Queen?? Why do I even ask these questions?? Consider the possibility of a Vengeful Reptilian Queen of Heaven - Ruling Humanity by Secrecy - Via a Controlled Patriarchy, and a Subjugation of Women. Pretty subtle and clever. I am trying really, really hard to remain objective and detached in all of my internet posting - and, as such, I might not appear to be particularly friendly (or hostile) toward anyone - human or otherwise. I just don't know when and where the lies stop - and the truth starts...


    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Hpbzoomb4
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 2010-V-2009-Anna-Truth-Interview-S1x01-576x317
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Kristen-stewart-bella-twilight-new-moon-eclipse-Interview-October-November-2009-Kristen-Stewart-cover
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 D11s01e09_wallpaper_07
    The Lacerta Files Interview with a Reptilian

    First published on on on Dec 26 2004

    With Added Commentary by Michael & Stephanie Relfe

    Notes by Michael and Stephanie Relfe: It was information from this interview of a female Reptilian that enabled Michael to work out how to stop his monthly abuductons, and my occasonal abductions, by changing the Quantum Matrix so that the various technologies of the enemy do not work. Michael got the information from the "Quantum Matrix" from this interview. Reading this interview again years later, we were both surprised to find that while the terms "quantum" and "matrix" are in this interview, the term "Quantum Matrix" is not in the interview. Michael figured that the Lord must have given him this extra information, after reading this article.

    Please remember at ALL TIMES that reptilians, like any predatory species or individual, LIE. The best lie is 90% truth, which is why I'm posting this article. After all, we have already benefited from some of the knowledge in this interview. Use prayer and your discernment to work out what is lie, what is propaganda and if there is any thruth in it.

    The human who is talking here is like many people would be if they met an alien or reptilian. They are so shocked and overwhelmed to learn that aliens ARE real, that they then go on to assume that everything the alien says is true. Somehow their brain seems to think "I thought that aliens weren't real. Now I see that they are. So I suppose that everything they say is true as well".

    Most reptilians the humans come in contact with, are like a combination of a lying, murdering, slimy, pornographic politician. Every word they say is to be questioned.

    If this interview was permitted by senior reptilians, it was allowed for no good purpose as far as we are concerned. However, it is also possible that God allowed her to come and speak with us to give us some information, and she has since been punished (terminated). This is possible, and we feel that this is the case, as we note that promised later sessions and information have not appeared so far, to our best knowledge.

    It is hard for me to read this interview once again, to listen to the big, fat lies of an individual of a species that took me from our home without my permission, and stole our daughter from us. (We believe that Susan went to heaven within a year or so of being taken). And Lacerta's continual arrogance really grates after a while. So what if her car is faster than my car? Advanced technology does not mean advanced spiritual progress.

    While Lacerta loves to talk about how "psychic" they are, other sources have reported that reptilians have, in fact, lost their psychic abilities, partly due to ingestion of white powder gold (the dangers of white powder gold are described here) . We also happen to believe that metaphysical abilities are a gift from God to good beings, and that reptilians who are strongly associated with Fallen Angels do not fit this category. In fact, any display of metaphysical abilities is all due to their, admittedly very advanced, technology. It is possible that Lacerta does not know this. The main reason that they still steal and harvest from humans is that they want what we have - pure metaphysical abilities.

    Another point about this being: She is a young, female student. Now, imagine that an alien race took a young, female HUMAN student onto their ship,and asked them to tell them all the secrets of technology and world power that adult humans know? What would she know? Only what she had been told in the course of her studies. Women are not allowed to become freemasons (except for a few fake female lodges given as a crumb to women), and therefore do not get to have real power on this planet. Women cannot become freemasons because freemasonry worships the penis. That's why freemasons put obelisks everywhere, and why they wear the apron - to protect the 'holy of holies'. They also worship Lucifer (Baphomet), but this is something that is told only to more advanced Freemasons.

    So, remember, Lacerta is giving only the information that a young, clueless female can give. Probably reptilians believe in brainwashing even more than humans do (maybe we learned it from them).

    Next time you are at the zoo, look into the eyes of a crocodile and ask yourself, how much love is that crocodile captable of? Most reptilians are about the same. If they are talking to you, it's because you have something that they want. Probably your DNA. (There are exceptions. Branton talked about some reptilian scientists who were working with humans and were concerned about the experiments being done on humans. And some reptilians did fight and die with the humans in some underground battles. And possibly Lacerta is not as bad as the rest of them. Once again, those stories were rumors)

    Note what is missing from this interview: Mention of God and advanced spiritual attributes, like love, honesty and service. While it is possible that some species may have messed with the DNA of some humans, those species are still not the creators of LIFE. They just try to mess with what God created. We believe that there are beings on other planets who believe in God and work to live as Jesus taught us, who consequently get blessed with techology FAR greater than that of the reptilians.

    Note that the King James Bible (1611) describes that in the story of Noah, a fallen angel - alien race modified the DNA of all humans living at that time. Only Noah and his family had unmodifed DNA (He was perfect in his generations .... Genesis 6:9). And YAHWEH destroyed those people with alien DNA in the flood. More in depth information on this subject can be found in the amazing book - "FADNA - Fallen Angel DNA: Mark of the Beast" by JB Thomas Jr. - 2003 - Xulon Press.

    By the way, if you want to see a 'documentary' on reptilians, we highly recommend the excellent, classic, B-Grade sci-fi movie, "They Live". While reptilians don't look exactly like the beings in the movie, the plot has a lot of accurate information. (Ignore the ending). We have known abductees who had a lot of resistance to watching this movie.
    Note by the Editor of Brother Veritus' Website: These English translations were edited to correct English grammatical errors but message and intent were left intact. The word "Ilojiim" or "Illojim" used extensively in these texts could mean "Elohim", since this is the equivalent traditional word used in Western culture, however, this term may indicate a different galactic race.

    Translation by Chris Pfeiler, Editor and Translator. Taken from .

    Lacerta File I


    I certify that the following text is the absolute truth and no work of fiction. These are parts of a transcript of an interview I've made with a non-human and reptilian being in December 1999. This female being was already in contact with a friend of mine (whose name is given only with the abbreviation E.F. in the text) since some months. Let me declare, that I was all my life a sceptic about UFOs, aliens and other weird things and I thought that E.F. tells me just dreams or fictionous stories when he talked with me about his first contacts with the non-human being "Lacerta".

    I was still a sceptic when I met this being on December 16 last year (1999) in that small warm room in the remote house of my friend near to a town in the south of Sweden, despite the fact that I saw now with my own eyes that she was not human. She has told and shown me so many unbelievable things during that meeting that I can't deny the reality and the truth of her words any longer. This is not another of that wrong UFO papers which claim to tell the truth but tell in fact just fiction, I'm convinced that this transcript contains the only truth and therefore you should read it.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe : The fact that he sees that she is real and that MUCH of what she says is real is no evidence that ALL that she says is real.

    I had talked with her for over 3 hours, so the following transcript shows you only shortened parts of the interview, because she asked me after the interview not to publish everything she had told me already now. The order of the questions in this transcript is not always the same order in which I had asked them, so it may seem sometimes a little bit confusing to you. It was not easy to delete all the important parts she had asked me to delete from the transcript, so I apologise for the maybe unusual order. I'm in the possession of the entire transcript of the interview (49 pages with some of my drawings of her body and her equipment) and also of some tapes on which I have the full interview, but I will not reveal this before I have permission from her. I will send this shortened form of the still fascinating document to four of my reliable friends to Finland, Norway, Germany and France and I hope they will translate it into their own languages and into other languages and I hope as many people as possible will be able to read and to understand the transcript. If you receive it, please send it to all your friends via e-mail or make print-outs and copy them.

    I certify furthermore, that various "paranormal" abilities of her species like telepathy and telekinesis (including the moving and dancing of my pencil on the table without touching and the flying of an apple around 40 centimetres over her hands) were shown to me during the 3 hours and 6 minutes of the meeting and I'm absolutely sure that these abilities were no tricks.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: This could be done by the use of technology, either inserted in her brain or done by a third party that the human interviewer is not aware of. It does not mean that reptilians have metaphysical abilities themselves.

    The following is certainly difficult to understand and to believe for someone who hasn't experienced it, but I was really in contact with her mind and I'm now completely sure that everything she said during the interview is the absolute truth about our world.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: The reptilians are masters at mind control. So there is no way that he can really know that everything she said is true. Even if the female reptilian believed it, SHE could have been programmed to believe it. Question everything, especially where lizards who work by subterfuge are involved. In fact, without confirmation that he was actually in that room at that time (brain fingerprinting) or verification that his experience really happened (biofeedback clearing), his entire memory of the incident could have been fabricated.

    Unfortunately, if I read the entire transcript and (much more) this very shortened form by myself I have the strong impression, that everything I've written sounds too unbelievable to be true, that everything sounds more like a bad science fiction story from TV or cinema and I have doubts that anyone will believe my experiences. But they are true, if you believe it or not. I can't expect from you that you believe my simple words without evidence, but I can't give you that evidence. Please read the transcript and think about it and you will maybe see the truth in this words.

    There will be a new meeting between me and her (again in the same house in Sweden) on April 23, 2000 and she promised me to give me maybe some evidence of her existence. In the meantime I collect questions which I will ask her then. Maybe she gives me permission to reveal more of the missing parts in that transcript and about the coming war.

    Believe it or not, this makes no real difference (but I hope you will believe).

    Ole K. – January 8, 2000
    Transcript of Interview (shortened form)

    December 16, 1999

    Question: First of all, who are you and what are you? Are you an extraterrestrial species or can your origin be found on this planet?

    Answer: As you could see with your own eyes, I'm not a human being like you and to be honest I'm no real mammal (despite my partly mammal-like body features, which are a result of evolution). I'm a female reptile being, belonging to a very old reptilian race. We are the native terrans and we live on that planet since millions of years.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: Those who have read the Mars Records will recognise this as true. We found by muscle testing that the body does not consider Reptilians as "aliens", because they have been here long enough to be considered native.

    Note by Michael Relfe: Some Bible researchers believe that when YAHWEH gave the order to replenish the earth, HE was referring to a previous race that had dominion of earth. And it is clear who the new owners are.

    "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth". Genesis 1:28

    We are mentioned in your religious writings like your Christian Bible and many of the ancient human tribes were aware of our presence and worshipped us as gods, for example the Egyptians and the Inca and many other old tribes.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: Yes, interesting, isn't it? This is true- there is so much evidence from stone statues all around the world that in the past humans did worship them as Gods. Now, most of these people also practised human sacrifice. Which means that that was done with the approval of the reptilians. Did they eat us? Do they eat us still ? Some people have reported that they do.

    My question is, what happened? Why don't they want us to know that they exist? Let alone worship them? Michael and I believe (and, of course, this may not be true), that each time, humans worshiped them as gods only for a while. Familiarity breeds contempt and after a while we think that humans lost their awe of the big lizards, and got sick of them torturing and eating us (human sacrifice). And rebelled. And with our superior metaphysical abilities, we won every time. Which is why the lizards now stay in hiding.

    However, we think they are starting to want to come back and get worshiped again which is why there is SO MUCH programming of children in books, TV, toys and museums to love dinasaurs and reptiles. We visited a Children's museum in a major city one day. The play area for children had about 90% plastic dinasaurs and reptiles! Only about 10% mammals and birds! What happened to lions, pandas, cat and dogs? An area with live animlas was the same - about 80% reptiles. No bunnies, guinea pigs and parrots. Just lizards, snakes and tortoises. And have you ever noticed how many, many children's books ALWAYS have a reptile in them? And how "d is for 'dog'" is now replaced by "d is for 'dinasaurl" (a much tougher word to read)?

    Your Christian religion has misunderstood our role in your creation, so we are mentioned as "evil serpent" in your writings. This is wrong. Your race was genetically engineered by aliens and we were just the more or less passive visitors of this accelerated evolution process. You must know (some of your scientists have already supposed this) that your species had evolved in a naturally completely impossible speed within just 2–3 millions of years. This is absolutely impossible, because evolution is a much slower process if it's natural but you have not understand this.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: Wrong again. Evolution is not slow. It's VERY fast. I am not saying that God did not create everything in the beginning. Or that aliens have not interfered in DNA since then. But one thing is clear. Evolution continued AFTER the Bible's Genesis. Please read Robert Felix's "Magnetic Reversals and Evolutionary Leaps" to learn that IMMEDIATELY after the many major extinction events that earth has experienced, thousands of new life forms appeared, with no previous evidence of them in the fossil record. This has happened many, many times.

    Your creation was artificial and done by genetic engineering, but not by us but by an alien species. If you ask me, if I'm an extraterrestrial, I must answer no. We are native terrans. We had and have some colonies in the solar system, but we originate on this planet. It's in fact our planet and not yours—it was never yours.

    Note by Michael Relfe: Please understand that predatory species of all types continue to get quite a bit of mileage out of the "you were created by aliens" scam. This is an attempt to steal the heritage of and undermine the confidence of humans as well as preventing people from having a personal relationship with their creator. As previously described, it is clear that humans were created by, and in the image of, YAHWEH, Creator of ALL things. This is a powerful secret that Lucifer and his operatives do not want you to know. Lucifer and the dark powers of this planet want humans to think they are animals, with no spiritual heritage. YAHWEH wants people to understand that they have infinite, eternal life through HIS Son YaHuShua (Jesus Christ) and that they have the ability, duty and honor of destroying the creations of Lucifer. And that includes everything that the canabalistic reptilians have created. And that is what the reptilians are scared of.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: Maybe that's why this planet belongs to Lucifer. We know that earth belongs to Lucifer because when he tried to tempt Jesus by offering him the whole world, if he would only worhip him, Jesus did not rebuke him. Lucifer (Satan) is head of the fallen angels and there's a strong connection between fallen angels and reptilians. While there is a spiritual Hell, there is another Hell of fire and brimstone deep within the earth, full of pain and terror, and that's the home of the reptilians.

    Question: Can you tell me your name?

    Answer: This is difficult, because your human tongue is not able to pronounce it correctly (and a mispronounciation of our names is very offensive for some of my kind). Our language is very different from yours, but my name is—I will try to say it smoother by use of your human letters—something like "Sssshiaassshakkkasskkhhhshhh" with a very very strong pronounciation of the "sh" and "k" sounds. We have no forenames like you but only a single but unique name which is divided and charakterised by the way of speaking and which is given not to children (who have an own children-name) but only in a special procedure in the adolescent age at the time of either religious or scientific "enlightenment" or awareness (as you would call it). I would appreciate it if you don't try to say my real name with your human tongue. Please call me "Lacerta", this is the name I generally use when I'm among humans and talk with them.

    Question: How old are you?

    Answer: We measure the time not like you in astronomical years and in the revolve of the earth around sun, because we usually live beneath the surface of the planet. Our time measurement depends on periodically returning cycles in the earth magnetic field and according to this (and said with your numbers) I'm today—let me calculate—57,653 cycles old. I have reached my adult phase and my awareness 16,337 cycles ago (this is a very important date for us). According to your human time scale I'm around 28 years old.

    Question: What is your task? Do you have a "job" like us?

    Answer: To say it with your words: I'm a curious student of the social behaviour of your species. That's why I'm here and talk to you, that's why I have revealed my real nature to E.F. and now to you and that's why I give you all that secret information and why I will try to answer all the questions on your many sheets of paper honestly. I will see how you react, how others of your kind react. There are so many crazies and liars of your kind on this planet who claim to know the truth about us, about UFOs, about aliens and so on and some of you believe their lies. I'm interested to see how your species will react if you make the truth (which I will tell you now) public. I'm quite sure everyone of you will refuse to believe my words, but I hope I'm wrong, because you need to understand if you want to survive the coming years.

    Question: I've read your full statement (which you have given to E.F.) about this, but can you give me now just a short answer: are UFOs real flying objects piloted by extraterrestrials or do they belong to your species?

    Answer: Some observed UFOs—as you call them—belong to us, but most not. Most of the "mysterious" flying objects in the sky are not technological devices but mainly misinterpretations of natural phenomena your scientists have not understand (like spontaneous plasma flares in the high atmosphere). Nevertheless, some UFOs are real craft belonging either to your own species (especially to your military) or to other alien species or at last to us (but a minority of sighted craft belongs really to us, because we are generally very careful with our movements in the atmosphere and we have special ways to hide our ships). If you read a report about a sighting of a metalish bright-gray cigar-shaped cylindrical object with a length of—there are different types—let me say between 20 and 260 of your metres and if this object had made a very deep humming sound and if there were 5 bright red lights on the metalish surface of the cigar (one at the top, one in the middle, two at the end) then it's likely that someone of you have seen one of our ships and this means that it was either partly defect or that someone of us was not careful enough.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe. That's interesting. I have always had an especially negative feeling from every single recording of a cigar-shaped craft.

    We have also a very small fleet of disc-shaped craft, but such UFOs belong usually to an alien species. Triangular UFOs belong generally to your own military but they use foreign technology to build them. If you really want to try to see one of our craft, you should have a look at the skies over the Arctic, the Antarctic and over Inner Asia (especially over the mountains there).

    Question: Have you a special symbol or something like that with which we can identify your kind?

    Answer: We have two major symbols representing our species. One (the more ancient) symbol is a blue serpent with four white wings on a black background (the colors have religious meanings for us). This symbol was used from certain parts of my society, but it is today very seldom—you humans have copied it very often in your old writings. The other symbol is a mystic being you would call a "Dragon" in the shape of a circle with seven white stars in the middle. This symbol is much more common today. If you see one of that symbols on a cylindrical craft I've described in my previous answer or on some underground installation, this thing or place belongs definetely to us (and I would advise you to go away from there as soon as possible).

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: I cannot agree too much with her last statement!

    Question: The seven stars in the second symbol you've mentioned—do they mean the Pleiades?

    Answer: Pleiades? No. Actually, the seven stars are planets and moons and they are a symbol for our former seven colonies in the solar system. The stars are shown in front of a blue background and the dragon-circle means the shape of Earth. The seven white stars mean Moon, Mars, Venus and 4 moons of Jupiter and Saturn, we had colonized in the past. Two colonies are no longer in use and abandoned, so 5 stars would be more correct.

    Question: As you have not allowed me to make photos—what would be very useful to prove your real existence and the truth of this story—can you describe your details?

    Answer: I know that it would be helpful to prove the authenticity of this interview if you can make some photos from me. Otherwise, you humans are very sceptical (that's good for us and for the real alien species acting secretly on this planet) so even if you had such photos, many of your kind would say that they are fraud, that I'm just a masked human woman or something like that (that would be very offensive for me).

    You must understand, that I can't give you permission to make photos of me or of my equipment. This has various reasons, which I want not to discuss with you further, but one of the reasons is the keeping up of the secrecy of our existence, another reason is more religious. Nevertheless, you have permission to make drawings of my look and of my equipment I can show you later. I can also try to describe myself, but I doubt that others of your kind will be able to imagine my real look just from simple words, because the automatic denial of the existence of reptilian species and generally of intelligent species other then your own is part of the programming of your mind. Well, I will try.

    Imagine the body of a normal human woman and you have at first a good imagination of my body. Like you, I have a head, two arms, two hands, two legs and two feet and the proportions of my body are like yours. As I'm female I have also two breasts (despite our reptile origin, we have started to give milk to our babies during the evolution process—this happened around 30 million years ago—because this is the best thing to keep the young alive. Evolution had done this for your species already in the dinosaur age and—a little bit later—also for ours. That means not that we are now real mammals) but the breasts of us are not as large as those of human woman and the size of them is generally equal for every female of my kind. The external reproduction organs are for both sexes smaller then those of humans, but they are visible and they have the same function as yours (another gift of evolution to our species).

    My skin is mainly of a green-beige color—more pale green—and we have some patterns of brown irregular dots (each dot of the size of 1–2 centimetres) on our skin and in our face (the patterns are different for both sexes but females have more, especially in the lower body and in the face). You can see them in my case as two lines over the eyebrows crossing my forehead, at my cheek and at my chin.

    My eyes are a little bit larger then human eyes (for this reason, we can see better in the darkness) and usually dominated from the large black pupils, which are surrounded from a small bright-green iris (males have a dark-green iris). The pupil is slit and can change its size from a small black line to a wide-open egg-shaped oval, because our retina is very light sensitive and the pupil must compare this. We have external round ears but they are smaller and not so curved as yours, but we can hear better because our ears are more sensitive for sonic (we can also hear a wider range of sonic). There's a muscle or "lid" over the ears which can completely close them (for example under water).

    Our nose is more pointed and there is a V-shaped curving between the nostrils, which enabled the ancestors to "see" temperature. We have lost most of this ability, but we can still feel temperature much better with this "organ". Our lips are shaped like yours (those of females a little bit larger then those of males) but of a pale brown color and our teeth are very white and strong and a little bit longer and sharper then your soft mammal teeth. We have no different hair colors like you (but there is a traditon to color the hairs in different ages) and the original color is—like mine—a greenish brown. Our hairs are thicker and stronger then yours and they grow very slow. In additon, the head is the only part of our body where we have hairs.

    Our body, arms and legs are similar in shape and size to yours, but the color is different (green-beige, like the face) and there are scale-like structures on the upper legs (over the knee) and upper arms (over the elbow). Our five fingers are a little bit longer and thinner then human fingers and our skin on the palm is plain, so we have no lines like you but again a combination of a scale-like skin structure and of the brown dots (both sexes have the dots on the palm) and we have no fingerprints like you. If you touch my skin, you will feel that it is smoother then your hairy skin. There are small sharp horns on the upside of both middle fingers. The fingernails are grey and generally longer then yours. You see that my nails are not so long and round at the top. This is because I'm female. Males have sharp pointed nails with a length of sometimes 5 or 6 of your centimetres.

    The following feature is very different from your body and part of our reptilian origin: if you touch the backside of my upper body you will feel a hard bony line through my clothing. This is not my spine but a very difficult shaped external plate-strucure of skin and tissue following exactly our spine from the head to the hip. There is an extremly high number of nerves and large blood vessels in this structure and in the plates (which are around two or three centimetres long and very touch sensitive—this is the reason why we have always problems to sit in chairs with a back like this chair.) The main task of these small plates (beside a role in our sexuality) is simply the regulation of our body temperature and if we sit in natural or artificial sunlight, these plates become more bloodfilled and the vessels become wider and the sun is able to heat up our reptilioid blood (which circulates through the body and through the plates) for many degrees and that gives us a great pleasure.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: If they LIKE the sun so much, why didn't they just come out in the open and stay there, a long time ago? Especially if they are as innocent as she claims. Then we wouldn't have any trouble believing in their existence. The reason why they are in hiding is important to mankind. For some reason/s, they are afraid of us. That's the only thing that makes sense.

    What else is different from your kind? Oh, we have no navel, because we were born in a different way to your mammal birth. The other exterior differences from your kind are minor and I think I must not mention all now, because most of them are not visible if we wear clothing. I hope the description of my body was detailed enough. I would advise you to make some drawings.

    Question: What kind of clothing do you generally wear. I suppose this is not the way you dress normally?

    Answer: No, I wear this human every-day-clothing only when I'm among humans. To be honest, it's not very comfortable for me to wear such tight things and it is always a very unusual feeling. If we are in our own home (this means in our subterranean home) or in our large artificial sun areas and if we are together with others near to our own name, we are usually naked. Is this shocking for you? When we are in the public and together with many others of my species we wear very wide and soft clothing made of thin, light stuff. I have told you that many parts of our bodies are very touch sensitive, mostly the small backplates so we can't feel comfortable in tight clothing because it can hurt us. Man and woman wear often the same kind of clothing, but the colors are different for the sexes.

    Question: You've said "others near to your own name". Do you mean your familiy?

    Answer: No, not really. You would call it "family" but with this word you mean only those of your kind which belong genetically together like father or mother and child. As I have said earlier we have a very difficult and unique name. Part of the pronounciation of that name is absolutey unique and there is no other being with the same name, but part of this name (the middle part) is pronounced in a way that told the others to which "family" (I must use the word, because you haven't the right one in your vocabulary) you belong.

    This means not that all in that group are genetically related to you, because this groups are usually very large and contain between 40 and 70 of us. This group includes generally your genetic relations—except one of them had decided to leave this group—and your connection with father and mother is often the strongest. It would be too difficult for me to explain you now our very old social system which is very complex and we would need many hours only for the primary things. Maybe we can meet another time and I can give you detailed descriptions of all these things.

    Question: Have you a tail like normal reptiles?

    Answer: Do you see one? No, we have no visible tail. If you look at our skeleton, there is only a small rounded bone at the end of our spine behind the pelvis. This is a useless rudiment of the tail of our ancestors, but it is not visible from the outside. Oh, our embryos have tails during the first months of development, but these tails disappear before they are born. A tail makes only sense for a primitive species which tries to walk on two legs and must hold the balance with the tail, but our skeleton has changed during evolution and our spine is nearly the same shape as yours, so we need no tail to stay on two feet.

    Question: You said that you were born in a different way to us. Do you lay eggs?

    Answer: Yes, but not like your birds or primitive reptiles. Actually, the embryo grows in a protein liquid inside the mothers womb, but there is also an egg-shaped but very thin chalk hull around it, that fills the whole womb. The embryo inside this hull is completely autark from the mother's body and it has every substance it needs to develop inside this chalk hull. There is also a cord like your navel cord which is connected to a point hidden behind the backplates.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: It is interesting that she says they have a cord like our umbilical cord, when everone 'knows' that all reptiles are born in an egg. This is probably true. We believe that draconians and reptilians are different species. (And there may be many different species of reptilians and draconians). The baby 'dragon' in a bottle which you can see towards the bottom of has an umbilical cord attached to the front of its body. This baby is not from her species.

    When the baby is going to be born, the whole egg is pressed through the vagina covered in a slimy protein substance and the baby came out of this soft egg after some minutes. These two horns on our middle fingers were instinctively used from babies to break through the chalk hull to take their first breath. Our young are not so large as your babies when they were born, they are between 30 and 35 of your centimetres tall, the egg is around 40 centimetres tall (this is because our vagina is smaller then a human one) but we grow to a normal size of 1,60 to 1,80 metres.

    Question: What about your body temperature? You've said that you enjoy to lay in the sun. What effect has this to your organism?

    Answer: We are no mammals and as reptiles our body temperature depends on the temperature of our surrounding. If you touch my hand you will maybe feel that it is colder than yours, because our normal body temperature is around 30 to 33 degrees centigrade. If we sit in the sun (especially naked and with our row of small backplates in the sun) our body temperature can rise for 8 or 9 degrees within minutes. This rise causes a production of many enzymes and hormones in our body, our heart and brain and every organ becomes more active and we feel then very, very good. You humans only enjoy to be in the sun but for us it is the greatest pleasure you can imagine (maybe like your sexual excitement). We also enjoy to swim in very warm water or other liquids to rise our body temperature. If we are for some hours in the shadow, our temperature goes back to 30 to 33 degrees. This can cause no harm to us, but we feel much better in the sun. We have artificial sun-rooms in the underground but this is not the same for us like the real sun.

    Question: What do you eat?

    Answer: Generally various things like you: flesh, fruit, vegetables, special kinds of fungus (from subterranean farms) and other things. We can also eat and digest some substances which are poisonous for you. The main difference between you and us is, that we must eat flesh, because our body needs the proteins. We can't live completely vegetarian like your kind because our digestion would stop working and we would die after some weeks or maybe months without flesh. Many of us eat raw flesh or other things which would be disgusting for you. Personally, I prefer cooked flesh and surface fruits like apples or oranges.

    Question: Can you tell me something about the natural history and evolution of your species? How old is your species? Have you evolved from primitive reptiles as mankind has evolved from apes?

    Answer: Oh, this is a very long and complex story and it sounds certainly unbelievable to you, but it's the truth. I will try to explain it in short. Around 65 million years ago, many of our unadvanced ancestors from the dinosaur race died in a great global cataclysm. The reason for this destruction was not a natural disaster—an asteroid impact as your scientists believe falsely—but a war between two enemy alien groups that took mainly place in the orbit and high atmosphere of your planet. According to our limited knowledge about the early days this global war was the first alien war on planet earth but it was definitely not the last (and a future war is coming soon, while a "cold war"—as you call it—between alien groups is ongoing since the last 73 years on your planet).

    The opponents in this 65 million year old war were two advanced alien species, whose both names are again not pronouncable for your tongues. I'm able to say them but it would hurt your ear if I tell you the names in their orginal way. One race was humanoid like your species (but much older) and was from this universe, from a solar system in the star constellation you call "Procyon" today in your maps. The other species—about which we know not so much—was a reptilian species, but they have nothing to do with our own species, because we have evolved from local saurians without exterior influence (except the successful manipulation of our own genes by us. More about that later). The advanced reptilian species came not from this universe but from a—well, how should I explain it to you. Your scientists have not really understood the true nature of the universe, because your illogical mind is not able to see the easiest things and relies on wrong mathematics and numbers. This is part of the genetic programming of your kind to which I will come later. Let me say, that you are nearly as far away from the understanding of the universe as you were 500 years ago.

    To use a term you will maybe understand: the other species came not from this universe but from another "bubble" in the foam of the omniverse. You would call it maybe another dimension, but this is not the right word to describe it correctly (by the way, the term dimension is generally wrong in the way you understand it). The fact you should remember is, that advanced species are able to "walk" between bubbles by use of—as you would call it—quantum technology and sometimes in special ways only by use of their mind (my own species had also advanced mental abilities in comparison to your species, but we are not able to do the matterstring/bubble changing without technology, but other species active on this planet are able and this looks to you like magic as it had to your ancestors.)

    Back to our own history: the first species (the humanoids) had reached Earth around 150 years before the reptilians and they built some colonies on the former continents. There was a large colony on the continent you call "Antarctica" today and another one in the continent you call "Asia" today. These people lived together with animal-like saurians on the planet without problems. When the advanced reptilian species arrived in this system, the humanoid colonists from "Procyon" tried to communicate peacefully, but they were not sucessful and a global war started within months.

    You must understand that both species were interested in this young planet not for its biology and undeveloped species, but for only one reason: raw material, especially copper. To understand this reason, you must know that copper is a very important material for some advanced species (even today) because it is—together with some unstable materials—able to produce new stable elements if you induce a high electromagnetic field in the right angle with a high nuclear radiation field to produce an over-crossing of fluctuating fields. The fusion of copper with other elements in such a magnetic/radiaton field-chamber can produce a force field of special nature that is very useful for various technological tasks (but the base for this is an extremly complex formula you are not able to discover because of the restrictions of your simple mind).

    Both species wanted to have the copper of Planet Earth and for this reason, they fought a not very long war in space and orbit. The humanoid species seemed to be sucessful during the first time, but in a last battle the reptilians decided to use a mighty experimental weapon—a special kind of fusion bomb which should destroy the life forms on the planet but should not harm the valuable raw materials and the copper. The bomb was fired from space and detonated at a point of your planet you call "Middle America" today. As it detonated in the ocean, it produced an unpredictable fusion with hydrogen and the effect was much stronger then the reptilians had expected. A deadly radiaton, an over-production of fusion-oxygen, a fall-out of different elements and a "nuclear winter" for nearly 200 years were the results. Most of the humanoids were killed and the reptilians lost their interest on the planet after some years for (even for us) unknown reasons—maybe because of the radiation.

    Planet Earth was on its own again and the animals on the surface died. By the way, one result of the fusionbomb was the fall-out of different elements and materials created in the burning process and one of that materials was Iridium. Your human scientists today see the Iridium concentration in the ground as an evidence for an asteroid impact that killed the dinosaurs. That is not true, but how should you know that?

    Well, most of the dinosaurs died (not all in the detonation but in the bad things which came after the war, especially in the nuclear winter and in the fall-out). Nearly all dinosaurs and reptilians were dead within the next 20 years. Some of them—especially those in the oceans—were able to survive for the next 200 to 300 years even in this changed world, but these species also died, because the climate had changed. The nuclear winter ended after 200 years, but it was colder on earth then before. Despite the cataclysm, some species were able to suvive: fish (like the sharks), birds, little creepy mammals (your ancestors), various reptiles like crocodiles...and there was a special kind of small but advanced dinosaur which had developed together with the last large animal-reptilians like the species you call Tyrannosaurus.

    This new reptile was walking on two legs and looked at little bit like your reconstruction of an Iguanodon (it originated in this family) but it was smaller (around 1.50 metres tall) with some humanoid features, a changed bone structure, a larger skull and brain, a hand with a thumb which was able to grab things, a different organism and disgestion, advanced eyes in the middle of the head like your eyes and...most important...with a new and better brain structure. This was our direct ancestor.

    There are theories that the radiation from the bomb took part in the mutations of the organism of this new breed, but this is not proven. Nevertheless, this little humanoid-like dinosaur evolved during the following 30 million years (as I have said earlier, a species need generally more time to evolve then you think, if the evolution is not artifically induced like in your case) from an animal to a more or less thinking being. These beings were intelligent enough not to die in the next millions of years, because they learned to change their behaviour, they lived in caves instead in the cold nature and they learned to use stones and branches as first tools and the use of fire as help to warm them—especially to warm their blood which is very important for our kind to survive. During the next 20 million years this species was divided by nature into 27 sub-species (unfortunately, former reptilian species were prone to divide themselves in a more or less illogical way into sub-species during the evolution process. You can clearly see this in the unnecessary high number of animal-dinosaur species in earlier times) and there were many (mainly primitive) wars between this sub-species for dominance.

    Well, nature was not very friendly to us and as far as we know from the 27 sub-species, 24 were extincted in primitive wars and in evolution, because their organism and mind was not developed enough to survive and (as main reason) they were not able to change their blood temperature in the right way when the climate changed. 50 million years after the war and after the end of Dinosaurs, only three (now also technological) advanced reptilian species were remaining on this planet together with all the other lower animals. Through natural and artificial crossbreedings this three species were united to one reptilian species and through the invention of genetic manipulations, we were able to "eliminate" the dividing-prone genes in our genetic structure.

    According to our history and belief, this was the time when our final reptilian race—as you see me today—was created by use of genetic engineering. This was around 10 million years ago and our evolution nearly stopped at this point (well, actually there were some minor changes in our look toward a more humanoid and mammal-like appearance during the coming ages, but we have not divided again into sub-species). You see, we are a very old race in comparison to your kind, which was jumping around as small monkey-like animals in the trees at this time while we invented technology, colonized other planets of this system, built large cities on this planet (which disappeared without a trace in the ages) and engineered our own genes while your genes where still those of animals.

    10 million years ago the small simians started to grow and they came down from the trees to the ground (again because of the change of the climate—especially on the so-called African continent). But they evolved very slow as it is normal for a mammal and if nothing extraordinary had happened to your kind, we wouldn't be able to sit here and talk because I would sit in my comfortable modern house and you would sit in your cave clothed with fur and trying to discover the secrets of fire—or you would maybe sit in one of our zoos.

    But the things had developed differently and you believe now you are the "crown of creation" and you can sit in the modern house and we must hide and live beneath the earth and in remote areas. Around 1.5 million years ago, another alien species arrived at Earth (it was surprisingly the first species since over 60 million years. This would be more surprising for you if you would know how many different species are here today).

    The interest of this humanoid species—you call them "Ilojiim" today—was not the raw material and the copper, it were to our astonishment the unadvanced ape-humanoids. Despite our presence on this planet, the aliens decided to "help" the apes to evolve a little bit faster, to serve them in the future as some kind of slave-race in coming wars. The fate of your species was not really important for us, but we didn't liked the presence of the "Ilojiim" on our planet and they didn't liked our presence on their new "galactic zoo" planet and so your sixth and seventh creation was the reason for a war between us and them. You can read about that war for example partly in the book you call "Bible" in a very strange way of description. The real truth is a very long and difficult story. Should I continue?

    Question: No, not now. I've made some notes about your history and now I have some questions.

    Answer: Please ask.

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Doctor+Who_S5E9_Cold+Blood_logo

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    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Empty Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:33 pm

    I think I've been doing some very dangerous speculation over the past several years -- yet I think I will continue to model a contrarian theological perspective -- not because I think I know better -- but because I think it is better to consider all of the possibilities -- especially regarding the most important subjects imaginable. I keep thinking about Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer -- where in antiquity they were all simply Interdimensional Spirits. I keep using Reptilian Terminology because I am trying to understand that hypothetical phenomenon. Therefore I am thinking of these Interdimensional Spirits as being Interdimensional Reptilians. At some point, I suspect that Michael was instrumental in the Genetic Engineering of the Human Being -- How and Why -- I know not. I further suspect that Michael became a Human Being -- and that this did not sit well with Gabriel especially. I get the feeling that Lucifer was (and is) somewhat opportunistic and renegade -- whereas Gabriel and Michael are more hardline idealistic -- but with very different philosophies of physicality and governance. Anyway, I've been thinking of Gabriel as fundamentally being Pure Draconian Reptilian -- Lucifer as Tall Grey (or Hybrid) -- and Michael as Completely Human. This doesn't mean that these three can't exist in other physicalities -- it simply indicates their possible preferences and loyalties. I sometimes think I might've had contact with one or more of them -- or at least with representatives of them. Just speculation. I get the feeling that the plan is to eliminate Human Physicality completely. I keep thinking of Michael as being the Ancient God who got overthrown and demoted after creating Humanity. I get the feeling that Gabriel is considered by most of the universe to be the new God -- with Michael being a Universal Personna non Grata. I get the feeling that Lucifer started out fighting side by side with Michael -- but saw the writing on the wall -- and switched loyalties to Gabriel -- serving Gabriel as the God of This World -- as an Agent of God-Satan to buffet Humanity. Just speculation, mind you. I have no idea if this hypothesis is even partially true. I am simply thinking in terms of Gabriel and Lucifer against Michael and Humanity. Legion, Constantine, and The Prophecy seem to have a bias in this direction -- but I am very selective regarding which aspects of these productions I actually take seriously. I'm trying to look at the Bible and the writings of Ellen White with this radical hypothesis clearly in mind. So far, it seems to work frighteningly well. I truly hope that my speculation is absolute bullshit. I HATE thinking like this -- but what am I supposed to do with an Insane World -- and even more Insane Theology??? Some day I'd love to have an off the record briefing by some sort of agent who knows the absolute truth about all of this crazy stuff. You know -- like the briefing Townsend (Martin Sheen) gave Jesse Marcel in Roswell. Skip to 1:10:00. Here now is a continuation of the Reptilian Interview:

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 42
    Question: First of all, you handle with a very large time scale. You claim that your primitive ancestors lived together with the dinosaurs, survived the—as you called it—artificial cataclysm and evolved then over 40 million years and your evolution was completed 10 million years ago. This sounds very unbelievable to me. Can you say something to this?

    Answer: I understand that this must sound absolutely unbelievable to you, because you are a young and genetically engineered species. Your historical horizon ends at a scale of just some thousands of years and you think this is right. But it isn't. This is impossible. Your programmed mind is obviously not able to handle with such large time scales. Our evolution time may seem incredibly long to you, but this is in fact the original way of nature. Remember, your early mammal ancestors developed together with dinosaurs and they survived the bomb like us. They evolved slowly during the next millions of years and they divided into various species and shapes, some of them larger, some of them smaller. This is evolution of the body.

    But what about their mind and intelligence? They were simple animals. The mammals evolved since—let us say—150 millions of years, but only in the last 2–3 millions of years they were able to become intelligent and thinking. And within this small period beings like you were created. From nature? 148 millions of years time for the evolution of animal-like mammals, 2 millions of years time for the development of (more or less) intelligent beings like you? Ask yourself: Do you really think this accelerated evolution is natural? Then your species is more ignorant then I've thought. We have not evolved wrong but you.

    Question: I understand. But I have another question. You've mentioned many facts about the ancient war between the aliens 65 million years ago. This happened very long before your kind became really intelligent (as far as I have understood you). Why do you know so many things about that "first war" and about the evolution of your species?

    Answer: This is a good question (much better then the previous) and I have not explained it properly to you. Our knowledge about the first war comes completely from an ancient artefact, which was found around 16,000 years ago from our archeologists on the continent you call North America today. They found there a round plate with a diameter of approximately 47 of your centimetres. The plate was made of an even for us unknown magnetic material and inside the plate there was another smaller crystal plate which contained an enormous amount of information coded in the molecular structure of the crystal.

    This "memory plate" was manufactured from the last bomb survivers of human race from "Procyon" already 65 million years ago but it was completely intact when we found it. Our scientists were able to encode the messages and data and so we heard the first time about the events which took place in the distant past and which led to the extinction of the dinosaurs. The plate contained detailed descriptions of both species (but more about the humanoids) and about the events and weapons, including the fusion bomb. It contained also a description of the animals and saurians on earth, including our pre-intelligent ancestor species. The rest of our knowledge about our evolution comes from skeletons and from the back-reading and de/encoding of our DNA. You see, we know the real truth about our roots since 16,000 years. Before that time, there was a more religious idea of our creation.

    Note by Michael Relfe: Assuming that this female is providing accurate information, from what she has been taught, it now becomes apparent that eveything the "reptilians" understand about their history is from an unknown alien artifact, created by an unknown alien group at an unknown time for an unknown purpose. Just as the reptilians enjoy subjecting humans to propaganda and disinformation, it seems that some other group is "running a game" on the reptilians as well. So this "advanced" reptilian race has no hard facts on their history, contrary to what they would have humans believe.

    Question: What has happened with both alien species?

    Answer: We don't know exactly. The surviving humanoids on earth obviously died in the years after the bomb and others of their kind and the reptilians never came back to Earth (as far as we know). Concerning the reptilian aliens, there is a possibility that it was physically impossible for them to return, because the matter between bubbles is sometimes in rapid movement. The current theory is, that both species had ceased to exist during the millions of years.

    Question: You've mentioned skeletons of your kind. How can it be, that human scientists haven't found any trace of you and your ancestors if you really live for such a long time on this planet? We have found many skeletons of primitive dinosaurs, but none of an advanced reptilian being with a larger skull and brain and a hand with a thumb as you have described it before.

    Answer: Yes, you have. But your "great" scientists were not able to reconstruct the skeletons completey, because they wanted to reconstruct reptilian animals, not intelligent beings. You would laugh if you would know how many of the (especially small) saurian skeletons in your museums are totally wrong constructions of never-existing beings, because you used many bones which didn't really belong together and sometimes you made artificial bones if something was missing you needed to construct an "animal" saurian.

    Many of your scientists are aware of this problem, but they don't make it public, because they can't explain it and they claim, that the right bones were just missing and their reconstruction is right. Many bones of us were used for Iguanodon reconstructions, for example the hands with the visible thumb (look at an Iguanodon in a museum and you will see that I'm right.) A scientist in the country you call United States had build a nearly correct skeleton of our kind some years ago, but the local government (which is partly aware of our existence) confiscated the reconstruction. As we live today (and since thousands of years) nearly completely beneath the earth, you will not find any cadavers or skeletons of us.

    Question: You speak sometimes about underground cities and artificial sunlight. Do you mean something like a "hollow Earth" with this. Is there a second sun inside our planet?

    Answer: No, Earth is not really completely hollow and there is no second sun inside. (Note: United States Navy Admiral Richard Byrd would disagree with that statement). This story is ridiculous and physically not possible (even your species should be intelligent enough not to believe this.) Do you know how much mass a sun must have to produce energy and light for a longer time by fusion? Do you really think that there could be a small active sun inside the planet? When I talk about our subterranean home, I talk about large cave systems. The caves you have discovered near to the surface are tiny in comparison to real caves and huge caverns deeper in the earth (in a depth of 2,000 to 8,000 of your metres, but connected with many hidden tunnels to the surface or to surface-near caves) and we live in large and advanced cities and colonies inside such caves (Note that this female appears to know noting concerning the U.S. Military D.U.M.B.S. (Deep Underground Military Bases) at depths of over 35 miles.

    Major sites of us are beyond the Arctic, the Antarctic, Inner Asia, North America and Australia. If I talk about artificial sunlight in our cities I don't mean a real sun but various technological sources of light (including gravitational sources) which illuminates the caverns and tunnels. There are special cave areas and tunnels with a strong UV light in every city and we use that places to heat our blood. Furthermore, we have also some surface sunplaces in remote areas, especially in America and Australia.

    Question: Where can we find such a surface-near entry to your world?

    Answer: Do you really think I will tell you their exact location? If you want to find such an entry, you have to search it by yourself (but I would advise you not to do that). When I came to the surface four days ago, I used an entry approximately 300 of your kilometres north from here near to a large lake, but I doubt that you would be able to find it (there are only a few entries in this part of the world—more are far more north and east).

    As a little advice: if you are in a narrow cave or in a tunnel or even in something that looks to you like an artificial mine shaft and as deeper you walk as smoother appear the walls and if you feel unusual warm air streaming from the depth or if you hear the rushing sound of streaming air in a ventilation or elevator shaft, then look for a special kind of artificial and smooth wall somewhere in the cave with a door made of gray metal. If you would be able to open that door (but I doubt this) you would be in a usually round technical room with ventilation systems and elevators to the depth. This is probably an entry to our world (See more information on these tunnels in the "Branton Files"..

    If you have reached this point, you should know that we are now definetely aware of your presence. You are already in big trouble if you have entered the round room, but you should look for one of the two reptilian symbols on the walls. If there are no symbols or other symbols, you are maybe in bigger trouble as you think, because not every underground installation belongs to our kind. Some new tunnel systems are operated from alien races (including hostile races). My general advice if you find yourself in a for you strange underground installation: run away as fast as you can.

    Question: You mentioned earlier that you use the name "Lacerta" when you are among humans and that you enjoy it to be in the real sun on the surface of earth. But how can you be among humans? You don't look like us, so anyone will see that you belong to another species. Why has nobody seen and described a being like you if your kind lives already since our "creation" together with us on the same planet. Can you explain that to me?

    Answer: First, my kind was of course seen and described (and worshipped) many times in your primitive past, for example in your religious writings like your Christian Bible. You can find descriptions and even simple drawings of us for also in the southern part of the American continent on various temples. So-called "wise" men from India and from the Asian mountains have described our species many times in writings, together with other "wise" men from the African continent. I think we are the most mentioned non-human species (maybe beside the "Ilojiim") in your history. If you don't believe me, have a look at your history and you will see the truth in my words. Your "great" scientists called the belief in us "superstition" and "religion" and today's "intelligent" humans have forgotten our presence on the surface in the past.

    Furthermore, our species is seen even today sometimes from human witnesses in its original shape on earth or in our surface-near entries and tunnel systems, but fortunately you and your media didn't take the reports of such "crazies" serious (that's good for us and that's the reason why we allow those people to see us as we really are). Some of my species are also in direct contact with human scientists and politicians from the surface, but this is top-secret—as you would call it—and nobody of your public knows anything about it (the matter of these meetings is generally the upcoming war with and between the alien species and our assistance in this war) (Note: This predatory species will attempt to convince humans that it is "good" and will help in a war against the"bad" aliens).But there is also another explanation, why we can walk among you and why you are not able to recognize us: mimicry.

    The following may again sound unbelievable and even shocking to you, but as you have asked I will expain it. I have told you before, that we have more advanced mental abilities then your species and with "more advanced" I mean, that we are able to use telepathy and telekinesis from our birth on (in fact, mother and new-born child communicate generally with telepathy during the first months) without special training as you need it to activate these sleeping parts of your brain. The structure of our brain is a little bit different to yours and our hypophyse is larger and more active then yours—especially when we are in sunlight. Our own abilities are very strong in comparison to yours, but weak in comparison to the "matterstring/bubble" mind forces of some of the alien species on this planet. I was never very good in that mind things, but we all have these primary abilities and can use them for example for our protection or even for attack (Note the subtle insinuation that humans are inferior to reptilians regarding metaphysical abilities, when in fact humans are superior to them because humans were created in the image of YAHWEH).

    When we are on the surface and we meet human beings (even a large group of them—this makes no difference. All of your minds are like one mind) we are able to "touch" their mind and induce them via telepathy the command "See us as one of your kind" and the weak human mind will accept this order without refusion and they will see us (despite our reptilian look) as normal humans. I've done this many times and you weak humans generally see me as an attractive brown-haired woman, because I have created this special "mimicry image" in my mind years ago and I can induce it into your minds without problems. I've needed some time at the beginning to learn the use of the mimicry correctly, but then it worked nearly automatically and I can even walk among a group of yours and nobody will recognize what I am.

    Note from Michael Relfe - If this female is providing correct information, then the metaphysical ability she is describing, whether natural or artificial, could be described as "projectional telepathic hypnosis" using a thought form as a carrier. Some countermeasures to this weapon might be prayer, asking YAHWEH for shielding or changing the quantum matrix inside yourself so that the thought form and the hypnotic "glue" that makes it stick would have no effect on the you.

    There is a simple switch ("See us as we really are / See us as we want you to see us") in your consciousness which was placed there from the "Ilojiim" when they created your kind and we can use this swich to convince you that you see humans when you look at us (other aliens use this switch, too). It is easier than you think. When there are meetings between your kind and aliens which seem to look exactly like yours, these aliens have used that switch and some of the meetings with man-like aliens can be also explained with meetings with my kind). When I met E.F. the first time, he saw me also as a normal human woman and I remember that he was very frightened and shocked when I revealed him my real appearance.

    Question: Do you mean, that you can really make me believe that I talk now with an attractive brown-haired human woman instead of a reptilian being like you?

    Answer: Probably, but I don't think so in your special case. When someone expects to see a human woman instead of me, I can do it without problems with his mind (even with large groups) because nobody expects to see a reptile woman. But I have allowed your mind to see me in my original appearance from our first meeting on and I have never induced something into your mind, so you have already realized that I'm not human. If I would now try to change this, it would probably led to an absolute confusion or to unconsciousness and I don't want to harm you. As I have said I'm not very good in these things.

    Question: That's very scary. Can you kill with that ability?

    Answer: Yes, but it's forbidden. This means not that it was not done in previous times.

    Question: Have both sexes this abilitiy?

    Answer: Yes.

    Question: What about photos? How do you appear on photos?

    Answer: This is a silly question. I appear on photos as a reptile being, because I can't influence the photo or on the camera itself but only on the photographers mind.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: Is this the truth? Or disinformation? Or what she has been programmed to believe? Or, are there more than one kind of reptilian? One who lives underground and can't affect the camera? And another than can shapeshift with some kind of technology, that can affect the camera?

    If he or she would develop the film and show the photo to others, they would see me in my original shape. That's the reason why it is forbidden for our kind to be filmed or photographed and we must avoid every camera on the surface (that is very difficult and we were filmed sometimes in the past without our knowledge, especially from certain of your goverments and secret agencies).

    Question: What other commands can your kind induce into our minds. Something like "Serve us" or "Obey"?

    Answer: This is again a strange question.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: She needs to watch the DVD "They Live". Think of it as a kind of documentary. (Ignore the ending and hokey effects. Considering how old it is, it is amazingly accurate).

    We are not your enemy (most of us not) so why should we do this?

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: Hmmm - According to her, we used to worship them. They they decided to go underground and stay hidden from us. Now, why on earth would they have needed to do that if they weren't our enemies?

    To answer your question: it depends on the strength of the human mind and on the strength of the sending reptilian. There is no "Serve us" or "Serve me" switch in your mind, so such a command is much more difficult to induce. If the human mind and consciouness is weak and the reptilian inducer is experienced in these things and was some hours in the sun before he or she tries to do it, then it could probably work for a certain time. There are secret teachings about such things, but I've never learned anything about it.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: Well, there you go. I said at the beginning that this is a young, clueless female who has been fed a bunch of drivel, as we have. So how could she expected to know much of real importance?

    I use my primary abilities for mimicry and for communication with my own kind and sometimes for other private things, but I've never used it to harm humans or their mind. I would appreciate it if we can end with this topic here.

    Question: A last question: you've said earlier, that you can hide your UFOs? Do you use the same abilities to do this?

    Answer: Yes, but on a technical base. There is a powerful device inside each craft which is able to send an artificial signal to your minds to convince you, that you see either nothing but only the sky or that you see normal aircraft like planes instead of our ships. This isn't used very often, because we avoid human public when we move in the atmosphere. If you are able to see our "UFOs" it means that the device is either defective or deactivated for some reason. The camouflage effect doesn't work on photos—to answer this possible question of you already in advance—but why should someone make a photo of the sky when he could not see anything unusual there. By the way, most of the surface-near entry points to our tunnels are also hidden with such a device and your kind will generally see only normal cave walls instead of the door. That's one reason why I've said that I doubt that you will be able to find such a secret door to our world (but it has happened a few times in the past).

    Question: Back to your and our own history. You've mentioned the race of the "Illojiim" who have created our human race. From where did they come and how did they look like? What had exactly happened when they arrived? Are they our "God"?

    Answer: The "Illojiim" came from this universe, from the solar system you call "Aldebaran" in your maps. They were a very tall humanoid species with usually blonde hairs and a very white skin (they avoided the sunlight, because it hurt their skin and their eyes. This was absolutely unbelievable for a sun-loving species like us). They seemed to be intelligent and peaceful at the beginning and we started a more or less friendly communication with them, but later they showed their real intentions and plans: they wanted to evolve the apes to a new breed and we were a disturbing factor for them on their new zoo planet.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: This is interesting. They sound like the blonde nordics. Unfortunately, when people get abducted or meet these beings, because they look blonde and physically beautiful, many humans end up thinking that they must be good. Instead of the truth - they are as evil as the greys and reptiilains. In fact, people have recovered abduction memories where all of these species are working together to work on abducted humans.

    At first, they caught around 10,000 or maybe even 20,000 of your simian ancestors and they left the planet for some hundred years. When they returned, they brought your (now more human) ancestors back. Then they left Earth again for some thousands of years and the primitive pre-humans lived together with us without major problems (they were just afraid of our aircraft and technology). The "Illojiim" had taught their mind and enhanced their brain and their body structure and they were now able to use tools and fire. The "Illojiim" returned within 23,000 years seven times and accelerated the evolution speed of certain of your kind.

    You must understand, that you are not the first human civilization on the planet. The first advanced humans (who lived at the same time with less-developed pre-humans, because the "Illojiim" had experimented with different speeds and stages of evolution) with technology and speech existed around 700,000 years ago on this planet (your scientists have not understood this, because they've found only the bones of the pre-humans and some primitive cave drawings showing advanced humans and flying devices.) This genetically advanced human breed lived together with us, but they avoided contact with my kind, because the "Illojiim" teachers had warned them with misleading purpose that we are evil beings and that we lie to them.

    Well, after some centuries the aliens decided to extinct their first creation and they accelerated the evolution of a second and better test series and so on and so on. The truth is, that your modern human civilization is not the first on this planet Earth but already the seventh. The buildings of the first breeds are lost, but the fifth civilization was the one, which built the large triangular constructions you call "Egyptian Pyramids" today around 75,000 years ago (your Egyptians just found that large ancient pyramids in the sand and tried not very sucessfuly to built similar constructions) and the sixth civilization was the one, which built the cities which ruins you can find today beneath the sea in the so-called Bimini Area around 16,000 years ago.

    The last creation of the seventh breed—of your series—was done just 8,500 years ago and this is the only creation you can remember and to which your religious writings refer. You rely on archeological and paleonthological artefacts which show you a wrong and short past, but how should you know anything about the six civilizations before. And if you find evidence for their existence, you deny and misinterpret the facts. This is partly a programming of your mind and partly pure ignorance. I will tell you in the following only about your creations, because the six previous mankinds are lost and therefore they should not concern you.

    There was a long war between us and the "Illojiim" and also between certain groups of the "Illojiim" themselves, because many of them were of the opinion that the again-and-again creation of human species on this planet makes no real sense. The last battles in this war were fought around 5,000 years ago in orbit and surface. The aliens used powerful sonic weapons to destroy our underground cities but on the other hand we were able to destroy many of their surface installations and bases in space.

    The humans of your series were very frightened when they observed our battles and they wrote it down in form of religious myths (their mind was not able to understand what was really going on). The "Illojiim"—who appeared as "gods" for the sixth and seventh breed—told them that it is a war between good and evil and that they are the good and we are the evil race. This depends certainly on the point of view. It was our planet before they arrived and before they started their evolution project with your kind. In my opinion, it was our right to fight for our planet. It was exactly 4,943 years ago—according to your time scale—that the Elohim left the planet again for unknown reasons (this is a very important date for us, because many of our historians called it a victory). Fact is, that we don't know what had really happened. The "Illojiim" were gone from one day to another, they vanished without a trace together with their ships and we found most of their surface installations destroyed by them.

    The humans were on their own and your civilization developed. Many of us were in contact with certain (more southern) tribes of your species in the coming centuries and we were able to convince some of them that we are not the "Evil" the aliens wanted them to believe. During the time from 4,900 years ago to today, many other alien species arrived on the planet (some of them used the old teaching and programming of your mind and "played" again God for you) but the "Illojiim" themselves never came back. They had left the planet for a duration of some thousand years also earlier, so we expect their return one day in future to end their project or to maybe extinct also the seventh breed, but we don't really know what has happened to them (to answer this question of you in advance).

    Your current civilization doesn't know anything about your real origin, about your real past, about your real world and universe and you know very little about us and our past. And you know nothing about the things to come in the near future. As long as you will not understand and believe my words—I tell you the truth because we are not your enemy—as long there is danger for your species. Your enemies are already here and you have not understood. Open your eyes or you will be in big trouble soon. If you haven't believed anything of the things I've told you before, then you should really believe and remember this.

    Note from Michael Relfe - This "we are not your enemy" plea rings hollow when contrasted with the abductions, rapes, murders, tortures, baby stealings and many more evil things that these predatory slavers have inflicted upon innocent human beings.

    Question: Why do you think I don't believe you?

    Answer: I have a certain feeling that you don't believe me, despite the fact that I'm sitting here in front of you. Everything I have told you in the last two hours is the absolute truth about our world.

    Question: How many alien species are active on earth at the moment?

    Answer: As far as we know 14 species. 11 from this universe, 2 from another "bubble" and 1 very advanced from a very different plain. Don't ask me for names, because nearly all are not pronouncable for you, eight of them are not pronouncable even for us. Most of the species—especially the more advanced—are just studying you as animals and they are not very dangerous for you and for us and we work together with some of them, but three species are hostile, including the one which was in contact with some of your governments and exchanged their technology for copper and other important things and which had betrayed your kind.

    There was and is a "cold war" between two of these hostile races during the last 73 years and the third species seemed to be the "winner" in this useless struggle. We expect a more "hot" war between them and you in the near future (I would say in the next 10 or 20 years) and we are worried about that development. In the last time, there were some rumours about a new, fifteenth species which had arrived on Earth just 3 or 4 years ago, but we don't know anything about their intentions and we were not in contact with them until now. Maybe the rumours are wrong.

    Question: What do the hostile alien races want?

    Answer: Various raw materials, including copper for their technology, your water (or better the hydrogen in your water, which is a source of energy in advanced fusion processes) and certain chemical elements in your air.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: She doesn't mention gold. I met a man from South Africa, long before the internet, who told me that there are vast, old gold mines in South Africa of over 20,000 years ago. Reptilians are also meant to like gold, so that they can turn it into white powder gold. It is our understanding that they are addicted to this, and it is one of the reasons why they lost their own psychic abilities, and need to rely on technology now.

    Furthermore, two of the species are also interested in your body, in your human tissue and blood, because their own genetic structure is defective through bad evolution and radiation (as far as we know) and they need intact strings from your kind and from animals to repair their own genetic again and again, but they are not really able to repair the defects completely because their DNA and your DNA is not fully compatible (my own species is absolutely incompatible with them, so they are not very interested in us) and they try to make more compatible crossbreeds between you and them by use of artificial fertizilations and artificial wombs. We suppose that the coming war between the three races or between you and one or all of them will be fought for raw material, hydrogen, air and DNA.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: She never mentions that what they REALLY want are metategenes - those that give humans super advanced metaphysical abilities.

    THE METAGENE FACTOR: Quote from "Blue Planet Project"- a notebook made by a scientist who worked with Greys and Reptilians for the government:

    The Metagene is a biological variant lying dormant in select members of the human race [especially on planet earth], until an instant of extraordinary physical and emotional over-stress activates it. (Apparently a latent self-preservation 'gene' capable of producing seemingly 'superhuman' abilities in earth humans during times of extreme stress or crisis. - Branton) ...

    That's an energochemical, in response to adverse stimuli. A chromosomal combustion takes place, as the Metagene takes the source of biostress, be it chemical, radioactivity, or what ever and turns the potential energoresponse into a catalyst for genetic change. The main focus of the catalyst power is a gland in the middle of the human brain called the PINEAL gland, and the nutrient for increasing the Pineal's action is the adrenaline. The Metagene factor gives the ability of Psionic Power [for better or worse].

    The main interest of the Aliens, especially the Grays, is to understand and control the Metagene for their own race. They try to do this using Biological Experiments to make Hybrids from both humans and aliens. They believe perhaps the MEN FROM PLANET EARTH ARE THE DEADLIEST CREATURES IN THE UNIVERSE. Because ONLY on Earth people are apparently capable of generating the Metagene Factor, which means Natural Psionics ability, "Real Power" "(See

    That is why it is mostly people with metaphysical abilities to who get abducted. And why people without metaphysical abilities won't believe in abductions, because:

    (1) CNN & Fox News didn't tell them.

    (2) They have never been abducted.

    (3) They don't have the metaphysical abilities to help them to see what is real, without physical proof (or even with physical proof).

    Question: Is this the reason for the "abductions"?

    Answer: Partly, especially when the aliens took egg and sperm samples from you. Sometimes the abducters belong to another and more advanced race and they just want to study your body and your mind (which is more interesting for some of them then your solid body) as you would study a primitive animal.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: This last bit is true. I was abducted by an unnamed alien species when I was about 5 years old. They were the alien equivalent of butterfly collecters. They took my psychic abilities and stored them as a blue light in a jar. After a clearing session, I got my abilities back, and noticed an improvment in my abilities afterwards. Note- Always ask YAHWEH to send angels to retrieve any parts of your fragmented soul as well as any abilities that have been taken from you.

    As I have said, three alien species are hostile and this means that they do not care for your fate or for your life and people who were "abducted" by them came very rarely back alive. If someone is able to report about an abduction, it means in my opinion that he or she has not met one of the aggressive species or that he or she is a very very lucky human to be alive. Advanced and "friendly" races also took sometimes egg and sperm samples, but for other reasons.

    Question: You've said there are only 14 species active on earth. But why describe people who saw alien beings so many different and bizarre types of them?

    Answer: I think I have already answered this question. As I have said, most of the alien races have much more advanced mind abilities then you or even me (there is just one alien race completely without such abilities). They are able to appear in your mind and memory as whatever they want and this induced "image" has nothing to do with their real appearance. You remember them as normal humans or grey dwarfs or even extremly bizarre animals because they want you to remember that or sometimes they want you to completely forget anything about a meeting with them.

    Another example: you can for example remember that you were just in a normal of your human hospitals and that some doctors were examining you and you think not further about what has happened to you (maybe until you discover that there is no hospital in the street where you supposed it) but in fact you were examined by them in one of their laboratories. You can't rely on your mind in this case. They appear in different shapes to you to confuse you and to make so-called abduction witnesses who were able to remember the events—or who believe they are able to remember—ridiculous in the public and as far as we know, they are sucessful. Believe me, there are only 14 alien species on this planet and only eight of them abduct humans at the moment (again as far as we know). In addition, not everyone of your "abductees" is one and some of the aliens in their reports are really just imagination or lies.

    Question: How can we protect us against this influence on our mind?

    Answer: I don't know. I doubt you can, because your mind is like an open book to read and write for nearly every species I know. This is partly the guilty of the "Illojiim" themselves, because they had constructed or better mis-constructed (partly intentionally) your mind and your consciousness without real protection mechanisms. If you are aware that someone tries to manipulate your mind, you can only concentrate on that suspicion and try to analyze every of your thoughts and memories. Very important: don't close your eyes (this would lead to a different form of brain waves which are more easy to access) and don't sit or lay down to rest. If you stay awake during the first minutes, you can maybe try to filter the other thoughts and waves in your brain and the inducer will give up after some minutes if he or she is not sucessful because it will start to hurt his or her own brain. This is very difficult and certainly painful and it can harm you, so better don't try to resist but it would be the only possibility you have. However, you can try this only with the more weaker species, not with the strong.

    Note from Michael Relfe - Please observe the continued attempt by this reptilian to influence and program the reader to believe that humans are somehow inferior to the reptilian and all other alien races and that humans have no defense against alien mind manipulation. In truth, humans, created in the image of YAHWEH, our heavenly Father and creator of all things, are superior to these predators and are a deadly threat to these alien invaders.

    Question: What do you mean with "one species comes from a very different plain"?

    Answer: Before I can explain that correctly to you, you must be able to understand the universe and this would mean a maybe useless teaching of your mind (including the removal of some barriers) of many weeks and with teaching I mean not only teaching by words. I have said this with your word "plain" or "level" because you have again no better word in your vocabulary and dimension would be in this case absolutely wrong (it's rather wrong even for another "bubble") because a dimension can't exist without plains.

    If you would be a species living in another or over the plain and if you would be furthermore able to enter plains without technology so that your body is not made of that kind of matter you know, then you would be the mightiest being you can imagine. This very advanced race I've mentioned had developed outside of here and they've evolved in fact over billions of years. They would be able to destroy all of you and us and everything with just a single thought. We were in contact with them only three times in our whole history, because their interest in your planet is different from that of all other races. They are definately no danger for you or us.

    Question: What will happen when the war begins?

    Answer: This is difficult to answer. It depends on the enemy race and on their tactics. "War" is not always that primitive thing you humans mean with the word, "War" can be fought on various levels. One possibility they have is the "destruction" of your social system by influence on political leaders, another is the use of advanced weapon systems which can cause earthquakes or vulcanic eruptions or other disasters (including weather disasters) which may seem natural to you. The special fields from copper-fusion I've mentioned earlier are able to have an influence on your global weather. I think they will not attack the planet directly before the human civilization is weak, because even you have possibilities to destroy their craft (but not many). Let me say, that we are not absolutely sure if there will be really such a "hot" war already in the next years. I don't want to talk further about this.

    Question: This is the end of the interview. Do you want to say a last sentence or message?

    Answer: Open your eyes and see. Don't believe only in your wrong history or your scientists or your policians. Some of them know the truth about various things, but they don't inform the public to avoid confusion and panic. I think your species is not as bad as some of my kind think and it would be a pity to observe your end. That's everything I can say. Go through your world with open eyes and you will see—or maybe not. Your kind is ignorant.

    Question: Do you think anyone will believe that this interview is the truth?

    Answer: No, but it is an interesting experiment for my social studies. We will meet again in some months and you will tell me then what has happened after the publication of my message. Maybe there is hope for your kind.
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 P00ny2mx

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    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Empty Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:35 pm

    I continue to think that science fiction is an important part of this thread. Most of us don't have Cosmic Clearance - so we have to make due with the scraps of information we get fed in the mass media. The higher ups don't want us simple cattle to stampede! "Run Goyim! Run!!" My computer is running very poorly - so I assume that someone doesn't like what I'm posting. Could you guys and gals just monitor me by going online, like everyone else - instead doing all of that fancy back-door Cray Supercomputer BS? I'd really like to have my computer back. Besides, the interdimensional reptilian spies are keeping me under constant watch. I couldn't resist. I know you are just doing your jobs. But really - I mean absolutely no harm. I think that my constant questing, questioning, and speculation is making me a target of various agencies and organizations -- as well as supernaturally -- and I can understand why. I feel absolutely horrible 24/7. I sometimes feel as if I am some sort of a soul of note -- which REALLY makes me a target. Who knows?! I feel VERY oppressed and depressed. I try to think about things which I suspect that very few other people think about. I'm sure I'd be somewhat of a threat if I were more vocal -- but I continue to make good on my promise to not make a big-deal about what I post on the internet. I MIGHT write some sort of science-fiction in the distant future -- but it would be very different than what I post on this site. This is not really a labor of love. It's more a labor of curiosity. I wish to understand how things really are and work. Then I wish to try to make things better. It's somewhat like trying to solve a cold-case or some mystery. I'm pretty cold and detached -- which is sort of creepy and scary. It almost seems like 'old-hat' from a previous incarnation. When I spoke with the Ancient Egyptian Deity it seemed as if we knew each other -- going way, way back. It was very strange. I don't know who they really were -- but they were unlike anyone I had ever encountered. They were NOT just another Human Being. I liked them on one level -- but on another level they creeped me out and scared the hell out of me. I haven't spoken with them for over a year -- and the last time we spoke they were not very friendly. Something seemed to have drastically changed. It seemed as if they had plans for me -- which didn't work out -- so then I seemed to become a bothersome liability.
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Dw-s5-cold-promo7
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Dw-s5-cold-promo2

    Lacerta File II

    (Translation by Doug Parrish)

    I once again reaffirm that the following text is the absolute truth and is not fiction. It was composed from three original tape recordings which were made on April 24, 2000 with a tape recorder during my second interview with the reptilian creature known as "Lacerta". At Lacerta's request, the original text of 31 pages was revised and shortened up to deal with some questions and answers. Some existing questions were partially shortened or amended. It was even undertaken to extract message and significance from it. This part of the interview, either not mentioned or not mentioned completely in the transcript, deals primarily with personal issues, paranormal demonstrations, the social system of the reptilian species and alien technology and physics.

    The reason for the shifting of the date and time of the second meeting was a possible observation and surveillance of my own person after the publication of the first transcript. Although everything was attempted on the advice of Lacerta to keep my identity a secret, just two days after the dissemination of the document abroad, various unusual events took place.

    Please don't think that I am paranoid; however, I believe that the publication of the interview has drawn either official attention or the attention of some organization to me. Up until this time, I usually regarded people who believed that they were being followed by the state to be nothing more than jokers. But now I have begun to revise my ideas on that since events in January.

    It began with a failure of my telephone for several hours. When the phone became operational once again, there were quiet echoes and strange clicking and whirring sounds when I made calls. A defect could (ostensibly) not be found anywhere. Overnight, important data disappeared from the hard drive in my computer. The testing program reported "defective sectors" where strangely enough there were only data which dealt with illustrations and completed textual material from the interview. These "defective sectors" also contained material of a paranormal nature in the field of my research. (Fortunately, the material was also stored on floppies.)

    In addition I discovered by pure chance some hidden data in a likewise hidden directory index. The name which appeared on the data and the directory index was "E72UJ." A friend, who is a computer expert, could not make anything of this designation, and when I was about to show it to him, the directory index had disappeared. One evening, my apartment door was standing wide open, my TV set was running—and I am absolutely confident that I had turned the TV set off.

    A minivan with British markings and the imprint of a Europe-wide supermarket chain parked in front of my house. I noticed the same minivan again on several occasions traveling at a distance behind my car, even when I visited the town of ...... 65 kilometers away. When I returned, the car was on the other side of the street once again. I never saw anyone get into or out of the car. A knock on the door of the vehicle and on the tinted windows caused no reaction of any kind. After about two weeks, the minivan disappeared again. When I informed E.F. personally about these events, he suggested that I change the place and date of the meeting in order to assure our own and Lacerta's safety. The meeting took place on April 27, 2000 in another isolated location. It was unobserved as far as I can determine.

    Once again, all of this may sound strange and paranoid, like a fantasy from a cheap science fiction film; however, I can only repeat to and assure the reader once again: all of this is the unadulterated truth. Believe my words or don't believe them. These things have happened and they will continue to happen, whether you believe it or not. Until it is too late. Our civilization is in danger.

    Ole. K. – May 3, 2000


    Transcript of the Interview (Shortened Version)

    Date: April 27, 2000

    [Comment by Ole. K.: The meeting began with an appraisal of diverse questions and opinions which I had gotten from readers of the first transcript in anonymous fashion through distribution from my trustworthy friends. Some of these opinions—all together there were over 14 pages of paper—contained comments shaped by everything from a radically religious to a fanatical tendency to welcome contact with a reptilian species. Some of these comments contained stereotypical phrases like "Servants of Hell" or "Species of the Evil One". I don't want to go into any kind of detailed description here since I don't want pass on further any false and radical realm of thought.]

    Question: When you read these religious and animosity-ridden comments here, what do you think and feel then? Is the relationship between your species and ours really shaped from that kind of total negation?

    Answer: Does it amaze you that I am not completely angered by that? I had fully expected those kinds of extreme reactions. The programming for the utter negation of another species (especially the reptilian species) as in your own case is deeply embedded in each of your own individual consciousnesses. This ancient conditioning stems from the days of your third artificial creation and, biologically speaking, is passed down as an information genome from generation to generation.

    Note from Michael Relfe - "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Genesis 3:1 KJV

    The identification of my species with the powers of darkness was a primary intention of the Illojiim, who liked seeing themselves in the role of the powers of light—something which in and of itself represents a paradox, since that humanoid species was extremely sensitive to your sunlight. In case you were expecting me to act offended, I guess I'll have to partially disappoint you. These obscure intentions are not really your fault; you are simply following for the most part what you have inherited from your ancestors.

    It is indeed actually somewhat disappointing that many of you develop no especially strong individual self-conscience, for this would help you to overcome the conditioning. As I already said, we were in direct contact in the last several centuries with some of your more primitive human tribes; these tribes had themselves succeeded in breaking through the old "creation programming;" they were able to meet us without tension, hate and total rejection. Apparently many of your modern civilized individuals are not in a position to think on their own, but rather let themselves be guided by programming and religion (which is also a manifestation of that ancient programming and part and parcel of the plan of the Illojiim). Therefore, comments of that kind I'd sooner regard as amusing than irritating; they simply confirm in large measure for me my suppositions about your defined mode of thinking.

    Note from Michael Relfe - History is littered with the murder, rape, torture and enslavement of entire races and civilizations degraded and destroyed by the worship and control of these reptilian predators. It is understandable that they fear humans and hide in the earth like bugs. They have much to answer for, and YAHWEH will judge them and those that ally themselves with them.

    Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Galatians 6:7 KJV

    Question: Therefore, you are not the "Species of the Evil One" as was remarked earlier?

    Answer: How am I supposed to answer that? Your people still think according to a simple and completely inappropriate scheme of generalizations. Simply put, there are absolutely NO purely evil species. There exist in every terrestrial and extraterrestrial species alike both good and evil individuals; it's even true of your own people; but there is NO such thing as an absolutely evil species. This conception is really very primitive. You people have believed from time immemorial what you are supposed to believe—what was foreseen for you to believe by your creators.

    Every well-known species, even the more highly developed ones, consists of a great number of individual consciousnesses (at least a portion of the consciousness is individual, even though there are connecting fields of consciousness); these self-sufficient spirits are able to decide freely for themselves a lifestyle which is either good or evil, according to your own human standards.

    It depends again on the respective point of view; your people are not necessarily in a position to judge whether the deeds of a much more highly developed species are good or evil, because you stand at a lower observation point, from which an assessment is not possible.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: This is the typical garbage-talk of a suppressive person. Suppressive people have a messed up mind that can't recognise that what they do is evil. A good person is constructive and has a conscience. They respect the freedom of beings that are not hurting them. A 'bad' person is destructive and has no conscience. Not that the reptilian DID NOT answer the question.

    Your simple words "good" and "evil" are in any case examples of a tendency towards generalization; in my language there are many concepts for the various shades of meaning of individual behaviors in comparison to the norms of a society.

    Even those extraterrestrial species which are inclined to act with antagonism towards you are not "Species of the Evil One," even though they operate negatively with respect to your own race. They do this for their own reasons and do not regard themselves as evil;

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: Again, no suppressive person recognises evil. Their mind is warped. Plus they have zero sense of responsibility.

    where your structured way of thinking more linear and more focused as theirs is, then you would also behave in such a fashion. The attitude of a species towards other kinds of existence naturally depends very heavily on its respective structured way of thinking; each species sets its own priorities. To classify that as "good" or "evil" is really quite primitive, for the survival of any species argues for many varieties, among them your own, as well as for even the most varied of the worst or negatively-directed deeds. I won't even exclude my own kind in this regard, for there have been certain occurrences in the past which I don't personally welcome, but about which I would also not like to go into detail. None of these occurrences have happened in the last 200 years of your time scale. But please note the following: there are NO absolutely good and there are NO absolutely bad species, because each and every species always consists of individuals.

    Question: In the letters that I got, there was often the question, whether you could go into any greater detail regarding the advanced physics that you commented on last time. Many people said, your words made no sense. For example, how do UFOs function, how do they fly, how do they perform the maneuvers that they do?

    Answer: I ought to explain that to people? That's not all that simple. Let me think about it for a minute. I always have to use very simple words in order to make clear to you the basic principles of a higher kind of science. Let's try this: You have to be clear about some fundamental facts. The very first thing is that you must divide up the conception of the physical world because each existence consists of different layers; let's say for simplicity's sake that it consists of a material illusion and a sphere of influence. {TRANSLATOR'S NOTE: No legitimate translation exists for this word 'Feldraum'; "Feld" means "field," "Raum" means "space, room, expanse." Therefore, I'm translating it as "sphere of influence."}

    Certain physical conditions are associated only with the realm of the material {as in 'concrete'}, while other and more complicated conditions are associated only with the sphere of influence of the material world. Your conception of the physical world is based upon a simple material illusion. That illusion is further subdivided into three elementary or basic conditions of matter. A fourth and very important condition also exists, which you simply pay attention to more or less as you choose; it is the one bordering on the sphere of influence or plasma realm.

    For you, the theory for a controlled transformation or an elevation of the frequency of matter and the stable existence of this fourth aggregate condition of matter is not very common, or it exists at a very primitive level. (As an aside, there are simply five states of matter, but the post-plasma state would really be going too far and it would only serve to confuse you. Besides, it is not necessary for an understanding of the basic theory; it is connected with diverse phenomena which you would characterize as paranormal.)

    Now, back to the essentials:, with plasma I don't mean just "hot gas"—as the concept is generally simplified by your people—but rather I mean a higher aggregate condition of matter. The plasma state of matter is a special form of matter which lies between its real existence and the sphere of influence, that is, a complete loss of mass and pure accretion of energy of various form whenever matter is "pushed or shoved." {NOTE: No explanation was given for the use of the word "pushed, shoved" as used in this context. Your guess is as good mine.}

    The fourth state of matter is very important for certain physical conditions which can be used for example should I express this to you...generate antigravity. (That's a rather strange human word and not really correct, but you ought to understand it better this way.) Essentially, in the world of real physics, there are no bipolar forces, but rather only "observer dependent reflective behavior" of a single, large unified force at different levels.With antigravity or the displacement of gravitational characteristics into levels, one can, for example, cause apparently solid matter to levitate; this method is employed partly by us and by extraterrestrials as well as a means of propulsion for their UFOs.

    You people are moving on a really primitive level towards a similar principle for your secret military projects, but since you have more or less stolen this technology (and it was later falsely passed on to you intentionally by the extraterrestrials), you lack the real physical understanding; as a result, you have to struggle with problems of instability and radiation with your "UFOs". According to my information, there have been a great number of deaths of your people because of intense radiation and field disturbances. Don't you agree, this is also an example of the business regarding the question of "good" and "evil"? You people play with unknown forces

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: We agree.

    and thereby accept the death of colleagues of your own kind, for they are dying for a greater cause, namely, for the advancement of your technology, which as a result is being put into place once again for the purpose of war, i.e., for negative pursuits.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: Again, we agree.

    Now, one can give you the benefit of the doubt, that only the least number of your kind have any knowledge about these alien projects which are—as you explain it—top secret. It was told to you that the higher the ordinal or ranking number of basic matter, the simpler the heightening of the condition, but that is only partially correct. If you can't circumvent these powers, then you're better off not attempting it. But your kind has always been ignorant and has from time immemorial tried to play around with forces which you have not even understood. Why would that ever change?

    You remember this business of copper fusion? By means of the fluctuation at the right angle with the induced radiation field, copper is fused with other elements. (The illusion of matter is fused, the fields in the sphere of influence overlap each other, but the main force would be reflected by that process and would assume a quasi-bipolar character.) The resulting connection and the field would therefore not be stable in the normal condition of matter and unsuited for tasks. As a result, the entire field spectrum is shifted to a higher plasma-like condition, whereby the spectrum comes together with this harsh shifting to the opposite pole side—the word is NOT correct—of the force field and it resembles quite closely a gravitational shift.

    This shifting causes a "tilting" of the repulsing quasi-bipolar force, which now no longer flows to the interior of the force field, but rather flows partly to the exterior of the field. The result is an inter-stratifying reflective force field which is very difficult to modulate within certain technical boundaries in relation to its own characteristics. It can also carry out a multiplicity of tasks, as for example, causing massive flying objects to be levitated and maneuvered. It can also exert a camouflage function in the realm of electromagnetic radiation as well as manipulate temporal sequences of events—indeed only to very limited extent—and other things as well. Are you familiar with your "quantum tunnel effect"?

    Even the amplitude equalizations among genuine matter can be achieved with one of those kinds of fields if the frequency and the distance from the plane of the field are high enough. Unfortunately, the whole thing that I have explained to you in your words has come out to be rather primitive, I'm afraid. It sounds rather strange and certainly impossible for your comprehension, but perhaps this simple explanation can be of some use to you in helping you to understand. But then again, maybe not.

    Question: Is there a scientific substantiation for paranormal powers, as for example with your powers of thought?

    Answer: Yes. In order to explain that, one has to acknowledge the physical reality of the sphere of influence {Feldraum}. I'll try to do it...wait just a are going to have to separate yourself mentally from the illusion that that which you see is the true nature of the universe. It is, at best, the surface of a side. Imagine for yourself that all the matter here—you, this table, this pencil, this technical device, this paper—does not really exist, but that it is rather only the result of a field oscillation and a concentration of energy.

    All matter that you see, every creature, every planet and star in this universe, has an "information-energy equivalent" in the sphere of influence which is located on a main field—the general level {of things}. Now, there is not only one level, but several. Last time, I had mentioned that highly-developed species which is capable of changing levels (which is something completely different from the simple bubble changing, for bubbles are a part of each and every level). Do you understand? Dimensions, as you call them, are a part of a solitary bubble, bubbles or universal foam are a part of a level, and levels are layers in the sphere of influence, while the sphere of influence, acting in the capacity of single physical size, is essentially unending; it is composed of innumerable information-energy layers and general levels. There are in the sphere of influence no null-levels; all are the same, but they are separated by means of their energy conditions. I notice that I am confusing you now. I think I ought to stop with this explanation.

    Question: No, please continue. How do concrete paranormal powers arise?

    Answer: Well, OK then. Let's try something simpler. Again, it is not completely correct, but let's begin in this manner: Tangible matter on this side is mirrored in the sphere of influence {Feldraum} as a field with distinct layers. These layers contain information, as an example, about the simple structure of matter or the string frequency, but also there is stored information stemming from the development of matter. Are you familiar with the human concept of "morphogenetic fields?" One part of the layer could be designated as such.

    Now there is still another intermediary layer for which you unfortunately have no human concept, since the theory is not common in human thinking. Let's call it a "para-layer," for this layer is mainly responsible for everything which you call PSI and paranormal and which lies outside the boundaries of your primitive science. This para-layer lies between the layers of matter and the morphogenetic layers of a field in the sphere of influence. It can actively integrate with both. Your body, for example, is mirrored as a field in the sphere of influence {Feldraum}. That doesn't mean that it does not also exist here as well—as flesh, blood, bones—in the form of matter strings or atoms, but not only that.

    Existence is always a duality. Some layers of the field contain simple information about the solid matter of your body and its frequency, while other layers {contain information about} your spirit, your consciousness or, speaking from a human-religious point of view, your soul. Awareness or consciousness in this case is a simple energy matrix, divided into different layers of your field in the sphere of influence—nothing more, nothing less. Genuine awareness can also exist here on the matter side, but only in the form of post-plasma {the fifth form of matter}. With the necessary physical knowledge and the corresponding technology, the consciousness/awareness matrix, or soul, can also be separated from its field of rest. It can, despite its removal, continue to exist in a self-sufficient manner for a certain amount of time. That has the strange occult name of "soul robbing." But above all, we're talking about science here, not about magic or dark forces.

    [Comment by Ole. K.: The "soul robbing" was mentioned in one of the radical, religiously-motivated comments in connection with the reptilian species.]

    But back to your Question: Creatures with more powerful mental powers can have a direct influence on the para-layer by means of their consciousness/awareness fields. Now this layer is not limited only to the individual, but rather as a part of a general information layer—you could call it in a prosaic sense the community soul—that is connected with all animate and inanimate matter and all consciousness which exist on this main level.

    The biological cause for these abilities lies on the side of matter, by the way, in the pituitary gland, which always is in the position to generate the frequencies to actively control the sphere of influence {Feldraum}. Even you people could theoretically do this; however, you are solidly blocked in these things. As I have said, the para-layer can interact with mind as well as with matter. For example, if I decide to use my mental powers once more in order to move this pencil, then, simply said, I imagine in my mind how my consciousness/awareness expands/amplifies itself on the matter side in the form of post-plasma to the pencil.

    In the sphere of influence this causes simultaneously an automatic command from the consciousness/awareness layer to the para-layer to interact with the matter layer of the pencil. Since the para-layer is not confined to the body, it is not even a problem that the pencil lies over there, for I can unerringly reach it, even without moving my matter body. Post-Plasma on this side, para-layer on the other. I have control over the pencil and the interaction brings the matter field of the pencil to the point where it changes in the manner in which it moves, for example.

    [Comment by Ole K.: I certify that the pencil mentioned above abruptly at that very moment jumped into the air to a height of 20 cm and then fell back to the surface of the table. The sound is clearly heard on the recording tape. No one visibly had touched that pencil.]

    Question: That is fascinating. Which kinds of paranormal activities can one generate with that?

    Answer: All kinds. Everything that you call paranormal. As I said, this special layer lies in the sphere of influence {Feldraum} between the morphogenetic information layers and the matter layers and can interact with respect to both sides. That is to say, it can be interacted with solid matter as well as with mind or mental information, wherewith we can achieve everything that is generally designated as telekinesis and telepathy.

    The "connection absorption" with another consciousness/awareness is generally separate in the procedure from the simple influence of matter, since different consciousness/awareness fields work with different oscillations. A consciousness/awareness that sends or a consciousness/awareness that listens must first adapt itself to the other mind exactly, before any access is possible. Most species also have chances to block the alien access, but you people don't have this.

    The following is generally valid: the stronger the paranormal abilities of a species, the simpler the adaptation and the access. Our own abilities are not so powerfully developed; therefore, first we have to learn specifically alien mind influence in order to use our mimicry, for example—where mimicry is actually quite simple in your minds due to the implanting of the on/off switch. Some of these abilities are also partially inherited; mother and child of my kind as an example are attuned exactly during the first months of life—partially also in the egg covering in the expectant mother—and communicate telepathically.

    In order to influence you people, we need a certain amount of time for practicing, despite your simple structure. Therefore, it is forbidden, for example, for adults of my kind before the "Age of Enlightenment" to come to the surface of the Earth. (That term is synonymous, along with other things, with full physical strength.) In the case of not fully developed abilities, the danger of discovery by you would be too great. By the way, there are of course numerous secret teachings about the real possibilities which can give one these abilities, but I really don't know anything exact about that.

    Whenever an alien mind ought to be influenced, then there are some generally valid steps, which are set into motion by other extraterrestrial species. First and foremost, the alien oscillation must be felt, something generally that is done automatically by the brain, i.e., for the one the field oscillation, for the other the quasi-electrical brain waves here in the normal space {which matter inhabits}. That is not especially difficult. After that, one simply probes for the other consciousness/awareness in the mind with a post-plasma manifestation, the sphere of influence {Feldraum} reacts and the connection is there.

    Now one can read out information from the first one and record the desired information to the second one in the correct location. You asked me last time whether you people have the opportunity to protect yourselves against this influence, and I told you that only an awake and concentrated mind had any kind of a chance to withstand it. In this state of mind the oscillations change very abruptly and access becomes complicated; more precisely, it can come as a painful recoil. Whenever you close your eyes, then the field becomes "flat," and alien access {to the mind} is immediately possible and without restriction. In terms of your chances against a more highly developed species, you have none at all. They are able to adjust the oscillations faster than you can change. I could even demonstrate it on yourself, but you were really horrified and confused the last time, so we'll just leave it at an explanation.

    Note from Michael Relfe - If this female reptilian is providing correct information, her explanation of projectional mind control brings to mind some further countermeasures.

    The predatory alien requires a signal reception or "sampling" of the oscillation created by the mind of the target. If the human target were to specifically change the quantum matrix of their brain and mind so that those signals could not be received by the predator, then the "mimicry" would not function. Remember that it is not necessary for us to understand the process because YAHWEH is actually doing all the work. HE will make sure you are doing it correctly. So please try this new prayer procedure and when you start to see the reptilians, please let us know.

    This explanation presumably sounds to you like—as you say—something esoteric or from the occult or magic. The reason for that is simply that you lack the basic understanding for seeing the background reasons. All paranormal phenomena have a purely scientific origination. None of this has anything to do with supernatural powers. We grow up with this kind of knowledge, we know how one makes use of these powers, and where they come from. We are acquainted with theory and practice. You are not. Therefore, you really don't understand what happens in your world—you see only one side of existence, not the other (I mean here both that are physical). Everything paranormal is dualistic, and it exists in the space that matter inhabits as well as in the sphere of influence {Feldraum}. To be can only be explained by the acceptance of the latter, because the sphere of influence {Feldraum} is the basis. I would welcome an end to the scientific questions since you really aren't grasping them anyway. We're wasting more or less valuable time by doing this.

    Note from Michael Relfe - It is quite possible that the explanations provided by the reptilian female are accurate. Much paranormal phenomena involves demonic activity and you can be assured that demons can manipulate these energy layers if they need to.

    Question: Only one last question. At our first meeting in December, you made it quite clear that you didn't want to discuss scientific and paranormal concerns. Why the openness now?

    Answer: The last time I saw really no necessity in overburdening you with facts of that kind (and now you are obviously overburdened). Therefore, I had preferred only to mention these topics in a peripheral sense. Apparently, however, some of my performances today have set you to thinking about your world, something that can't be all bad. And by the way, your human scientists will tend to regard my comments as "humbug." And so I see no great danger in spreading this information widely. No one will pay much attention to it. By the way, the words of people who have characterized me as a "Creature of Evil" have their basis in the belief in occult powers and magic—both of which things DO NOT exist.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: HA!!! I have a video for you Lacerta. Please watch "Interview with an Ex-Vampire". (Also available free on google video). Black Magick is powered by demons or other higher beings. I don't think that is 'science". It is very real, very powerful, very evil and very dangerous. Again, is she brainwashed, just plain ignorant or giving us misinformation?

    There is no magic, only highly developed science, and everything that you label as "magic" is only a part of science. If you would only comprehend that, then you would be a step ahead in your development. My openness on this issue ends here. Pose other questions, please.

    Question: Good. Let's talk about UFOs. Can you explain to me how our governments came into possession of UFO material to the point that they could start their own projects? Did it have anything to do with the "Roswell Incident?"

    Answer: Yes, but that incident was not the first one. I am no historian, I am studying only your current behavior, so my knowledge about those events in your history is presumably not very extensive. I will try to explain to you what I know about those things which happened at that time. Let me think about it for a second. In the years 1946 to 1953 in your time scale, there were five cases where extraterrestrial ships crashed to the surface of the Earth. In that crash which you call the "Roswell Incident," there was not only one alien ship involved, but two that crashed after a collision in different parts of the land in the west—the one you call the USA. (You have to know that the ships of this particular species can remain levitating in the air for a particular period of time even though they are damaged; that accounts for the spatial difference {in their crash locations}.) These were indeed not the first crashes, but by that time the second and the third. Another ship had crashed in 1946, but it was destroyed beyond usability.

    One thing first before the explanation: it certainly sounds ridiculous to you that such highly developed extraterrestrial ships simply crash, and that a relatively large number did so in a relatively short amount of time. The explanation for that is likewise more than strange, but it is correct. It does not lie in the ship's drive itself, but rather in the direction of the field to your planet. This species that we are discussing—and it was always in this time period that this species used a disk-shaped craft—used a propulsion system which ran according to the normal principle of fusion, to be sure, but one that at that time employed a more than unconventional method for field alignment.

    This method had various advantages but also disadvantages. The repelling field must of course lie in the absolute correct angle to the surface of the Earth. This species used an alignment technology in their ships, with which the field locked into place all points of the Earth's magnetic field. Now at that time this species had just arrived on the earth and their point of origin lay on a planet with a more stable magnetic field, for which they had developed and aligned their drive. The magnetic field of the Earth is not really all that stable; it is subject to cyclical variations and it forms field eddies under unfavorable conditions. Whenever a ship with one of those kinds of drives gets into a field fluctuation or into an eddy that is too strong, then for a short time the repelling field can no longer align itself correctly and the ship glides uncontrolled on its flight path.

    The drive is operating correctly, to be sure, but the field fluctuates in all directions and because of that, the ship can crash. In the case from 1947 which you addressed, it is my understanding that one of the ships got caught in a fluctuation, its field linked up unintentionally with that of its squadron leader and it collided with another ship whereby both of them were heavily damaged. The cause for the magnetic fluctuation at that time was probably an electrical disturbance brought about by a weather event. Both ships crashed as a result; one of them fell near the collision point, the other a hundred of your kilometers or so distant. All occupants were killed in the impact. The thin hull structure of that kind of disk craft is in and of itself not very stable, since those disks have not been designed for crashes as well as for flight in a field where there are exterior forces at work.

    Now, your human military collected the individual pieces at first until they discovered the whole ships with the dead creatures aboard. Immediately they classified everything as "Top Secret" and brought them to their military bases in order to analyze the drive. The secret endeavor was to set the alien technology in place later against evil enemies of that great country. That is as primitive as it is ridiculous. I believe I remember—I don't want to specify exactly your date—that it was probably between 1949 and 1952 that there was a rather bad accident during some research being done on one of the wrecks. According to what I heard—what members of my species were told by members of that government—it resulted in an unintentional activation of one of the drive's components in the unshielded condition. As a result, for a very short period of time—how should I phrase this—there was an unchecked shift of the environment to a plasma-like condition, which on the other hand, through a very, very unfortunate accident, caused an overturning of the general power field into a magnetic pulse of immense power.

    Do you have any idea what kind of an effect a plasma-magnetic jolt has, when it comes into contact with an organism? No, how should you know that. Of course you don't. Disturbance in the structure of the field and bioelectric feedback. Imagine, if you will, a human body which is engulfed in bright flames for 3 or 4 of your days. Those flames apparently do not go out and they burn the body right down to its last constituents. Well, then you have an approximate impression of what happened. I think that 20 or 30 of your scientists were killed in that lab.

    Two further crashes occurred in 1950 and 1953 in the water catchment area of the American continent. Those ships were able to be recovered from the crashes relatively intact. (The one in 1953, as I remember, even had an intact drive core. It was by means of that device that you saw for the first time that you had understood the entire concept fully incorrectly and that you had reconstructed it fully incorrectly. Even today you still don't have it right.) That species, which had built the ships in the first place—a species which I, by the way, count among those who are unfriendly towards you—was naturally worried about the investigation of their own technology by your kind. They did not want, however, at that early point in time, to begin direct conflict with you, and so they chose the diplomatic path and came into contact with that government during your 1960's.

    Of course, they did not divulge the real reasons for their being here—copper, hydrogen, air—but rather they pretended to be curious "researchers" and offered to show people the functioning principle of the ships whereby they would expect in return some "favors." Simple-minded as you are, you of course agreed to it...and were deceived. You gave them raw materials, you gave them secured locations for their bases, you gave them access to your most secret defense data, you gave them access to your DNA and much more—and all just to quench your greed for power and information.

    The alien species of course quickly noticed that they were dealing with simple-minded creatures, and they gave you false and inferior information about their technology so that they receive much more out of the collaboration than your kind do. For example, they gave you information that the drive can only be constructed with unstable elements of a higher ranking number, but they withheld the information that the field drive can be constructed with various modifications to work as well with stable elements of a lower periodic number, and generally, that's the way it's done. Through these half truths they made you dependent on the synthesizing of high {numbered} elements, and thereby renewed by their own technology. Their clues to the construction of your "UFOs" were laid out in such a way that the solution to old problems caused new problems to arise simultaneously. They never told you the complete truth, but always built in again and again clever lies, which later lead to technical problems—and to your dependence on them.

    In the last years of your 1970's and your early 1980's, it finally came down to various events between the alien species and that human government—I don't want to go into detail here since there is much that even I am not exactly sure of. The whole thing lay in the context with some new, or better said, the old technical problems with your own self-constructed ships whose camouflage and drive partially failed to function in test flights in the open. Because of that, the function of secrecy was threatened. Your military and your politicians slowly—very slowly—came to the conclusion after more than 20 years of this that they had been deceived by that alien species.

    Multitudinous incongruities and the overstepping of bounds of the treaties by both sides finally led to an altercation between you and the extraterrestrials, which culminated in the lift-off of three of the alien aerial objects through a special—how do you say it?—EMP {electromagnetic pulse} weapon and a military skirmish at one of their underground installations. As a consequence of these attacks, the alien species ultimately withdrew from all contact with you and was understandably more than angered about your kind. Therefore, I count these extraterrestrials among the three groups who are hostile towards you, and while the other two are more occupied with their own business, among them waging a cold war for dominance on your planet, your old "friends" and partners are preparing to supply themselves finally with the sole and absolute dominance over raw materials and human DNA. At the moment it is probably true that they lack some of the technical possibilities and the large amount of forces which they need in order to achieve their goals directly. In spite of that, we are counting on negative actions—possibly ever of a more subtle kind—against you in the next few years or decades.

    Question: Will the other extraterrestrial species undertake nothing against these war-like actions? Specifically, something ought to be on Earth for the more highly developed species.

    Answer: You're wrong there. Specifically, for the more highly developed species there is simply at the very least your fate. You are animals for them. Animals in a very large lab. Understandably, an alien intervention on your planet would disturb their projects, but I don't think that they accept a confrontation with other species for it. Many of them could look for another research planet for themselves or they could study over a long distance your behavior and your consciousness/awareness, since crisis situations could have an attraction for their studies.

    Whenever you people take a look at an ant hill, and another person comes along and steps on the ant hill, what do you do? You go on your way, or you search for another ant hill or you observe the ants in their crisis condition. But would one of you—even though he were larger and more powerful than the one who stepped on the ant hill in the first place—defend the meaningless ants? No. You have to imagine for yourself the viewpoint of the more highly advanced creatures. You are the ants. Don't expect any help from them.

    Of course we would also ask for help when it became clear that your old partners were ganging up on you. Some members of that human government are fully aware of our existence—also partially owing to an old religious basis. For example, there is a gigantic partially underground building in the capital which is totally dedicated to my species and that also has a direct approach to an elevator shaft and to an underground system. In this building partial meetings have taken place and do take place between us and humans. We have passed on information to you in the last few years; according to what I know, we will keep ourselves as far away from the conflict as we can. You ought to learn to solve your own problems yourselves or to become intelligent enough never to create those kinds of situations. What will come and who will possibly place themselves on your side, only time will tell. I really do not want to make any indications about that.

    Question: I have here 5 prints of different UFOs, which claim to show UFOs. Can you take a look at the pictures and tell me in which of them actual extraterrestrial aerial craft can be seen?

    Answer: I can try it. You pose many questions to me today which even I cannot answer unequivocally. Don't overestimate my knowledge, I'm no expert in alien technology and the construction of extraterrestrial ships. To be sure, there are mostly some technical details and peculiarities about genuine "UFOs," with whose help one can easily differentiate them from natural phenomena or human forgeries. You falsify sometimes the pattern of genuine ships; therefore, it is not so easy simply with absolute certainty to identify an object. I'll try it. Show me the photos.

    [Comment by Ole K.: She considered the pictures respectively for only a couple of seconds and then sorted out photos 1, 3 and 5.]

    These three pictures here are obvious counterfeits or erroneous identifications. In the one picture, it certainly seems to me that a real existing ship of an alien species was adapted for a small model here. It lacks important characteristics which are tied in with the technically- and physically-associated field. Generally speaking, a picture is all the more a fake, the clearer the outline and the colors are, because a levitating ship is generally hidden in a shifted-field condition that even distorts the colors or the forms according to alignment. It might perhaps sound strange, but hazy and spectrally-shifted photos are sometimes to be interpreted as an indication for a possibly authenticity.

    By the way, this object is floating above the water. If it were a genuine ship, we would have to see in any case either a trough or a swell on the surface. Since the surface is flat, it is obviously not a genuine ship. In my opinion, none of these three pictures show genuine objects in flight or UFOs. Here in this picture I see above all no artificial object in flight; it seems much more to deal with only a light reflex in your simple optical cameras. You really ought to be intelligent enough not to fall for a mix-up like that. When your general public chases counterfeits and frauds for a long time, then they will presumably discover too late, what is really going on in front of them in their atmosphere.

    PHOTO 2: Albiosc, France, 1974

    This one seems to be genuine, at least it displays the necessary characteristics. I would assign it at first glance to an alien species who have been visiting your planet for the last 35 years or so. The object itself is metallic and disk-shaped; certainly it is distorted in form and color by means of a field effect. These four white and very long "processes" on the underside of the ship itself portray a kind of quasi-gravitational light manipulation, i.e., the universal force field is being shifted in the direction of a simulated gravity. Actually, it is not a genuine light (it is mostly not a genuine light whenever you see illuminating "UFOs") but a special strongly charged form field which manifests itself in the space that matter inhabits as a quasi-light.

    The reason for the activation of this special high-energy system in an atmosphere is not completely clear to me; it's possible that it is a kind of investigating or influencing of the environment. In any case, it is terribly careless of that species to allow this technology to be photographed by humans. Well, I guess that most of you just plain don't understand it, and those who do will not say anything about it to the general public.

    PHOTO 4: Petit Rechain, Belgium, 1990

    This is in fact a genuine aerial object; it is in no way extraterrestrial. Triangular aerial objects in flight are simply not used by alien species, or not in this form, at least. That streamlined kind of form is a human concept. It is one of your own secret military projects that you build with the help of immature alien technology—technology that was handed over to you by the extraterrestrials during the 1960's and the 1970's. Generally, the form of the hull for a genuine extraterrestrial ship is of no consequence, for inside the field itself there are no exterior forces that have any effect there; in general, the ships have a rounded off form and they are built without hard edges—as a disk or a cylinder—so that the field can flow more easily. Your projects decree that along with the alien drive field there also be a conventional jet engine system; therefore, they are always triangular and built thus with streamlining in order to be steerable with this primitive recoil principle.

    In the example here the ship glides above all on its genuine field drive. Do you see the distortion and the quasi-light in the rotating cylinders? That is an unmistakable indication for the authenticity of the photo. But why, you might ask, are there 4 cylinders? That's unusual—even the interval seems to be incorrect. The coloring is very dark and the interior optical distortion is very noticeable. Presumably a reconstruction of the original system by your scientists. Since the alien species has just not given you any more information since the disagreement, they are rebuilding the systems singlehandedly without actually being able to understand what kind of dangerous thing they are doing there. This construction does not make the system better, only more unstable. Both of the forward cylinders are too close to each other; they will definitely flow into each other. The color shows me a powerful residual radiation; it was probably the case that high elements were used again as customary for the shifting. It is in any case very dangerous to be unshielded in the vicinity of the field. Did the person who took the photo display any kind of radiation and burn damage?

    Question: I don't know. Where do these military "UFOs" come from? From the United States?

    Answer: Yes. I think generally that's true. From the western continent.

    Question: Why then do they fly over thickly populated areas of Europe? This photo comes from Belgium. That doesn't make any sense. Can you explain?

    Answer: Why is it that ONLY I am able to explain strange human deeds? It's possible that these are long-distance tests or tests with the electromagnetic camouflage systems. The old enemy of the American nation is on this side of the world, so why shouldn't they test here? At home they've had enough time to have had their ships crossing back and forth. Maybe they have aroused too much observation there. With one of those kinds of unstable field structures—as your photo indicates—I consider it somewhat improbable that that ship is capable of making a flight of that length over the ocean. It's possible there is a test station here on your continent. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about it.

    Question: Many readers of the first transcript have posed the question how your original contact with E.F. came about. I already know the story from your narratives, but could you repeat it here once again for this volume and for the new transcript?

    Answer: Of course. Now, the story began about two of your years ago here in Sweden. I have been strongly interested in your species and your behavior since my youth; I had already studied your literature at that time, as well as possible. (Naturally, it is not easy in my homeland to come into possession of human books, but since my group or family stands in a higher ranking order, I was able to gather some material together and sometimes to speak with others of my kind who have already been in contact with you.) I was really very curious about your species and as soon as I was allowed to come to the surface, I attempted to assemble more information immediately; above all, it was expressly forbidden for me to commence direct contact with humans because in my position at that time, there existed no necessity for doing so.

    It was in your year 1998, when I was on my way further north from here in the remote forests in the vicinity of the entrance to my world and was looking for biological specimens, which we use in order to watch over environmental pollution and destruction of your flora and fauna statistically by your own kind. At the time, I was already on the return path to the entrance—we can even orient ourselves more easily, by the way, through our senses to the Earth's magnetic field—and already in the vicinity of the large lake, when much to my surprise I came across a cabin in the woods.

    In this cabin I sensed a human consciousness/awareness. It was E.F. Actually, I had no permission for contact with another species, but by the same token I had set in place my mimicry capability quite successfully prior to this—even with larger groups of you (I had never ever come across a human being when I was alone). Now, let's call it primitive curiosity; I wanted to talk with the person in this cabin and so I knocked on the door. E. opened the door and we got into an interesting conversation. His language was not quite yet common at that time for me, but it's not all that hard to learn a new language when one can read the information in the consciousness/awareness of the opposite individual. I simply told him that I came from a foreign country in the east. Of course at the time, he did not really "recognize" who I was; he was totally convinced that he was talking with a creature of his own kind, although it was simply only a mimicry image.

    Since my assignment anyway had as its goal an investigation of this terrain which was to last for several days, I visited him in this span of time three times as a human person. At first we talked mainly about really ordinary things; later we got into religious and physical topics. He seemed to be impressed by my knowledge, and I was likewise impressed with his clear thoughts and his—for a human being—well displayed personality structure and his own opinions. You really like giving yourselves over completely to a public opinion or conditioning, as for example, "reptilian species are evil" and stuff like that.

    I steered the conversation in this direction, and E.F. said something to the effect that he believed in alien species and that they did not have to necessarily be evil, but perhaps only different than his kind are.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: We agree.

    That pleased me. At that juncture of time, of course, I could not speak concretely with him about my knowledge because he wouldn't have believed me—he would have taken me for a human practical joker. I cultivated the very, very unusual idea (for my kind) to show him my true exterior, something that I did during our conversation at our fourth meeting in the cabin. Actually, he was predestined for contact: he was open-minded, honest, intelligent, not religiously inclined or conditioned; he lived alone and isolated, and no one would believe him, should he decide to go public with his story. I dared to take the step, but then I had serious doubt about the propriety of my act, especially when he reacted...very...violently. He got control of himself again after a time and we could finally talk concretely about definite matters. Now he had no choice but to believe me. This was the beginning of a series of meetings which initially took place there in the woods, but later took place in his remote residence. Finally he brought you into contact with me...and for that reason we are now sitting here once again and talking about things which probably won't be believed out there in human society.

    Question: You said, you would not have had permission at that time for contacts with human beings. Do you now then have permission to talk with E.F. and me about all these things and even to make this scientifically public?

    Answer: Yes. That is difficult to explain and for you to understand. Let's just say, I find myself in the position now to arrange this permission without having to take into account any consequences. In this position I am quasi-"immune" against certain restrictions. Let's look it that way. Yes.

    Question: If other people want to come into contact with your kind, do they have a chance to do so?

    Answer: Generally not. We avoid contact with you and we operate on the surface only in remote areas and there we use the mimicry techniques in case we should meet some people. That I am talking with you now does not mean that others will follow my example. It goes without saying that you could try to find an entrance to my world and penetrate your way into there. However, that can sooner lead to unpleasant consequences for the infiltrator. You have next to no chances on the surface of recognizing us. You can't even contact us directly, we have to contact you, just as I did with E.F. Those kinds of contacts however are not the rule but are very rare occurrences.

    Question: Can you describe your subterranean homeland location?

    Answer: I can attempt to do so, but I certainly will not tell you where this place is located. My homeland lies in one of our smaller underground settlements to the east of here. I'll give you some numbers so that you can make a better impression for yourself. Just a minute...I have to try to convert the measurements approximately into your units. It is a dome-shaped cavern at a distance of about 4300 meters from the Earth's surface. The cavern was organized as a colony about 3000 years ago; a major portion of the ceiling structure is artificially integrated into the rock and the form was remodeled into an almost elegantly proportioned and very flat dome with an oval ground plan.

    The diameter of the dome according to your measures is about two-and-a-half kilometers. The height of the dome at the highest point is about 220 meters. Underneath that highest point in every colony there stands a special whitish-gray cylindrical building—a kind of supporting column which holds the honeycomb net-carrying structure of the dome. This building is the tallest, largest and oldest in the entire dome for it is always situated as the first construction together with the security of the ceiling. (In the meantime of course there were times when it was completed and reconditioned.) That building has a very special name and religious significance. We have only one of those columns; larger colonies even have more columns according to the construction of the ceiling.

    One of the main colonies in Inner Asia has as an example 9 of those kinds of supports, but that colony is also over 25 of your kilometers in size. The central building is generally a center of religion, but also a center for climate control, and a center for the behavior and the regulation of the lighting system. We have at our location all together 5 large artificial light sources which generate your UV light and its warmth through gravitational sources. The air shafts and the light systems from the surface likewise run through these columns and naturally, they are very intensely controlled.

    By the way, we have 3 air shafts and 2 elevator systems there, and even a tunnel connection to the next main colony which lies approximately 500 kilometers to the southeast. One elevator shaft leads to a cavern near the surface, the other leads to one of our depots for the ships—you remember, the cylindrical ships—that is naturally concealed closer to the surface behind a rocky mountain face.

    Normally, there are only three ships there—it's a small depot. The other buildings of the colony are, for the most part, concentrically ordered in oval circles around the main supporting column, and they are without exception much flatter; generally only between 3 and 20 meters tall. The shape of the buildings is round and dome-like. The color is even differentiated according to circle and distance from the main column.

    To the north of the column, there is an additional, very large but very flat round building. This building interrupts the concentric system of the colony with its diameter of about 250 meters. It is the artificial sun zone in which specially illuminated corridors and rooms are housed. In these locations very powerful UV light predominates, and they are used in order to warm our blood. There is even a medical dispensary and a meeting room located there.

    Beyond the outer ring of the colony, there are zones in which animals are kept—you know, we MUST consume flesh as nourishment—and the gardens in which plant nourishment and mushroom culture are cultivated; there is also hot and cold running water there from subterranean sources. The power station is located on the edge of the colony. The station is driven by fusion as its base and it supplies the colony and the "suns" with energy. My group or "family" lives, by the way, in the fourth ring of buildings out from the central support column. So much in such a short time. To describe to you all the buildings and their tasks would be going too far. It is difficult to describe something like that to you, for it is a completely different set of surroundings and culture from what you are accustomed to in your life on the surface. You really have to see it for yourself to be able to believe it.

    Question: Will I myself see it sometime?

    Answer: Who knows, maybe. Time brings new opportunities.

    Question: How many creatures of your kind live in this colony?

    Answer: Approximately 900.

    Question: That is the end of the interview. Do you have any final message for the readers of the transcript?

    Answer: Yes. I am thoroughly surprised at the many comments to my words; of course, I am naturally also disappointed about the religious portrayals of me as the enemy which have been voiced and which have buried themselves deeply in your mind. You should learn to set yourselves apart from the old conditioning and not to stand quasi under the control of something or someone who has already been gone for 5000 years. You are, after all, free spirits. Those are my final words.
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Doctor%20Who%205x09%20Cold%20Blood%20%287%29

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    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Empty Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:42 pm

    Mercuriel wrote:

    Some could say that with the right Knowledge from an inside Source that It'd be more Science Faction than Science Fiction...

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 XzPki
    Thank-you Mercuriel. I'm going to have to think about that for a while. I understand it on one level -- but I suspect that there are levels of understanding I haven't thought of. Perhaps all we are dealing with are various Interdimensional-Spirit Factions in conflict with each other. I keep getting the feeling that this thing is very ancient, very complex, and very nasty. I worry constantly about how I might fit into all of this -- and where my True loyalties lie. I have NO idea whether I am fundamentally good or bad. This thing could be so many ways -- and go in so many directions. I keep thinking about Da'an in Earth: Final Conflict. He/She seemed to be Man's Best Taelon Friend -- yet in one of the first season episodes, a crazy-genius prisoner had some sort of programming to defend humanity -- and he was trying to kill Da'an. So, what if I only SEEM to be a Friend of Humanity -- while on some subconscious-level I am an Enemy of Humanity??!! Ancient Stolen Technology (Including the Genetic-Engineering of the Human-Race and Other-Races) combined with various Wars in Heaven might be determinative regarding who's side I'm fundamentally on. Somewhat unrelatedly, is the Bible fundamentally peaceful or fundamentally violent?? Is the Bible fundamentally pro-human or fundamentally anti-human?? Think long and hard about this. I continue to like the manner in which the Bible was written -- yet I am often repulsed and puzzled by what I read in the Sacred Scriptures. What if Horus essentially documented the activities of Isis and Ra (and any equivalent names)?? What if Horus was a Historical Chad Dekker?? What if Isis was a Historical Anna?? What if Set was a Historical Marcus?? What if Isis = Gabriel = Anna?? What if Horus = Michael = Chad?? What if Set = Ra = Lucifer = Marcus?? The Real-Powers That Be always have (and probably always will) control the Front-Powers That Be -- to control ALL Factions -- to do whatever the hell they want them to do -- whether anyone likes it or not. The Horror.

    What if we are fundamentally dealing with Native-Reptilians v Invading Draconian Reptilians v Humans Created by a Particular Reptilian Faction?? What if ALL of the factions have the same type of souls -- and had a common origin?? What if there have been literally Trillions of Years of Star Wars?? Do we REALLY want Disclosure?? Do I REALLY want to be a Colorado Deep-Underground Insider?? Perhaps we should be VERY careful what we ask for. Perhaps a United States of the Solar System would be an Absolute Disaster. I keep thinking about telling a young medical doctor (decades ago) that being God was probably a nasty job -- but that somebody had to do it. I meant it then -- and I continue to stand by what I said. What Would Atlas Say?? Perhaps one should sell their soul to you know who -- and become a Billionaire-Insider Front-Man CEO of a High-Technology Company -- with insider sources of stolen and/or alien technology. Perhaps truth-seeking and doing the right thing are lost causes which make a person a Threat to National Security. This world seems to be a mixture of Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory -- with the most absurd extremes of wealth, poverty, sanity, insanity, pleasure, pain, etc, etc. It seems like some sort of a Grand-Plan which got hijacked and corrupted -- and which has gone VERY wrong -- when viewed from a distance. "Prison-Planet in Rebellion" seems to be an appropriate description of Planet Earth. I continue to desire a Perfected-Humanity Living in a Perfected Solar-System -- yet I would need to know a helluva lot of insider-information to make proper determinations regarding how this drama should play-out. I think I've talked to at least a couple of Insiders -- but they told me very little -- even though I asked a lot of questions. I feel as if I am being prepared for something -- but that I can't be told much of anything. I have NO idea whether this "something" might be good or bad. I might have some VERY powerful friends and enemies -- going way, way, way, way back. But really, in the final analysis, Might Might Make Right. Perhaps I should fundamentally be a Righteous-Warrior. Perhaps I fundamentally am -- but I just don't know it in this particular incarnation. The Horror.

    I wonder how many of the alphabet agencies (such as DHS, IRS, CIA, NSA, etc) are fundamentally NOT part of our official government?? Once again, I am NOT opposed to the right kind of world government and solar system government -- but I worry about the true nature of the Top of the Pyramid. If we deserve to live in a Prison Planet in Rebellion -- so be it -- but what if our predicament is illegitimate and/or mismanaged? I have NO idea what the case may be -- which is why I mostly just mumble on this little website. Again, I have mixed-feelings about humanity. I love the theory -- but the reality seems FAR from ideal. Perhaps this world and solar system need to be run as subsidiaries of a HUGE Galactic Business Empire. I suspect that they are -- and NOT in a nice way. Perhaps one would need to pass the equivalent of that "V" Empathy Test to work in the upper-levels of Solar System Management. I simply don't know the galactic realities. My present preference with my very limited knowledge and abilities -- is for a solar system without war and without environmental destruction. That would be just for starters. This world MIGHT be sort of a Debtor's Prison -- where payment is extracted and punishment is inflicted -- for ancient (and continuing) sins against who knows who?! I've heard that North Korea is in league with Japan. Is there some truth to this? I suspect that the Powers That Be (Human and Otherwise) will do whatever maximizes their bottom-line -- with absolutely no empathy. I'm getting more and more jaded and cynical about life, the universe, and everything. The Horror.

    Here is something rather strange and off-the-wall. A long time ago, I recorded the voice of a seemingly normal person with a moderately high-pitched voice -- on a digital-recorder -- but when I replayed this recording -- the sound was very rough and low -- and almost like a primitive growl. I tried this repeatedly -- with the same results every time. I recorded other people (including myself) -- with normal sounding play-backs. What the hell was going on with this particular person?? Can anyone answer me THAT?? I asked the Ancient Egyptian Deity about this -- and they simply said "Some of Them Slip Through" -- without elaborating. Very strange stuff. The Horror.

    I continue to repost posts from the past -- regardless of whether or not I still think the same way now as when I first posted them. All of this is intended to make ALL of us Think -- including me. I continue to attempt to be open and honest about Angels and Archangels -- even though I know this is playing with burning magnesium. I am simply attempting to be fair toward all concerned -- whether this is religiously and politically correct or not. Some people are afraid of some sort of Zombie-Attack -- but what if MOST People are Zombies under the control of some type of evil entities?? The Horror.

    I continue to get bad vibes from both Humanity and Divinity. I wonder if I have some sort of a Secret Existence in some other solar system -- or perhaps some other planet within this solar system. Something seems to be very wrong with my present incarnation into Earth-Humanity. I feel as if I am fighting a Spiritual Cold-War each and every day -- with absolutely nothing to show for it -- other than a few pathetic threads on the internet. I really think this present internet infowar is a test of some kind which is being monitored very carefully. I continue to feel as if I am hanging myself each and every day by attempting to be open and honest. The Horror.

    I think I'm going to read the latest issue of Foreign Affairs from cover to cover. You see -- I'm trying to identify with both Alex Jones and David Rockefeller -- if you know what I mean. I will continue to think in terms of Archangelic Factional Fighting until the evidence points me in another direction. Again, walking in my shoes will NOT make you happy. It's a Nasty-Task -- but someone must do it. We all have our crosses to bear. I'll have to listen to this Leo Zagami podcast later today -- but I'm already overwhelmed with research, emotion, and conflict. I've been reading Foreign Affairs -- and I think alternative-types should subscribe to it -- just to balance things out. I've 'enjoyed' Zagami interviews and rants in the past. I continue to wish to know 'secret-stuff' without getting involved in all of the creepy, bloody, and corrupt madness -- if you know what I mean. But really, this world and solar system might be ruled by some very dark forces -- who the elites are forced to deal-with and obey. I guess this is why I keep trying to keep the best aspects of the City-States -- while attempting to exorcise the darkness and the madness -- if you know what I mean. The Horror.

    I guess I'm trying to be a Minimalist-Traditionalist Protestant-Catholic by focusing upon 1. The Latin Mass. 2. The 1928 Book of Common Prayer. 3. Sacred Classical Music. BTW -- some say that Rome invented Islam (or something to that effect). I continue to lean toward the idea that this solar system is one big business controlled by some sort of a queen -- who controls EVERYTHING -- including ALL religions and governments. Making things better might be harder than we think. I'm trying to think and act like an Insider and an Outsider -- simultaneously. I am honestly trying to think the Queen of Heaven's Thoughts After Her. I realize this might seriously anger a lot of Roman Catholics, New Agers, et al -- but I am doing this in both a reverent and irreverent manner -- as strange as that sounds. The Horror.

    War of any sort (civil or uncivil -- holy or unholy) is a BAD idea -- but I just KNOW the PTB will start WWIII and inflict various "Natural Disasters" and "Acts of God". That killer-asteroid phenomenon wouldn't surprise me a bit -- but I still think they might be piloted by "Devil-Babies". Some of you know what I'm talking about. Just stockpile food, camping-gear, and medical-supplies. Skip the guns and ammo. That's just my opinion. BTW -- I'm just going to go down with the ship -- without much fuss at all. The Horror.

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    You know - I think I'm completely missing the boat. I think I'm right - in principle and concept - but I think I'm wrong in methodology. I think I need to get completely away from the solar system governance and extraterrestrial stuff. This has really been a case of whipping a very dead horse. My advice to everyone, is to pursue fame, fortune, power, and pleasure - RESPONSIBLY. A person can be wrong - even when they're right - and I think I'm wrong. I took a wrong turn - and I think I need to backtrack - or something. I have obviously worn out my welcome. My posting on this forum does not seem to be a good fit - but I really don't know where else to go - but I do think that I need to rethink everything. I really am not addicted to excercises in futility. I'm leaning toward the 'we're all hybrids with interdimensional souls' theory. But the history seems to be veiled with major deception - probably to hide a very dark past. I'm not sure I want to keep poking and prodding a phenomenon which might be very protective and hostile. I wish to be open, accomodating, happy, constructive, etc. - but this approach does not seem to be working, at this point - and I really don't like to feel frustrated each, and every day of my life - so I may try extra hard to stop thinking about all of this - and just wait for the truth to emerge in a more public way. All is not well with my quest. I can really see why a lot of people become completely secular - and just pursue fame, fortune, power, and pleasure. I guess I've really known this for my whole life - but I just had to keep coming back for more - and continue to bloody myself emotionally and spiritually. I should have just shut up, and gone with the flow of the community I grew up in - which would have probably involved becoming a millionaire surgeon (doing unnecessary surgeries and prescribing harmful drugs), and being a big-shot in the church (believing and promoting bs). This alternative, fringe, and esoteric thrashing about, really seems to be no-win. The good people in society Do Not dominate - and they probably never will. One more thing - I would love to get some reptilian contact lenses - and really freak people out!!! But, who knows, I might look in the mirror one morning, and realize that I don't need the contact lenses to freak people out. This illustrates how mixed-up I am right now. I just want out. May the force be with you. Namaste.

    investigator wrote:
    Besides, the interdimensional reptilian spies are keeping me under constant watch

    Your not paranoid friend hehehe. I'm slightly clairvoyant and I can clearly see myself being watched by entities assigned to me, whereas the average person does not realize they are being watched by those that are assigned to them 24/7. They are there when you shower, go to the bathroom, download movies off the net without paying for it etc, hehe.
    They're even watching when I'm rocking back and forth in the corner - doing you know what... Oooyeah 1 Lmao

    I have been spending way too much time speculating about Lucifer. I feel as though I am becoming more unbalanced by the dayI. Yet, I press forward into territory where angels (and probably even demons) fear to tread. Just now - I saw a bright point of light pass between me and the monitor. This has happened several times, and I'm almost getting used to it. I will try to transfer some of my recent YouTube posts ('True Form of Lucifer') to this location, even though I will probably make a fool out of myself, and attract some potentially unsavory entities into my home, which is probably already spook central. The horror. Viewer discretion advised - nudity!

    The real questions connected with the subject of 'Lucifer' are regarding world governance, solar system governance, galactic governance, universe governance, leadership, power, self-exaltation, pride, humility, corruptibility, cruelty, justice, mercy, jurisprudence, God, Satan, Angels, Archangels, Humans, Reptilians, Greys, enslavement, extermination, truth, deception, heaven, hell, etc. It's all about politics and religion.

    Michael, Gabriel, and Lucifer: What the hell is going on? Perhaps there was a problematic theocracy in the past - but why does everything have to continue to be filled with lies, violence, and insanity? Why can't we base this solar system on Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom - and stop playing Masters of the Universe? I brought this up on Project Avalon - and the eventual response seemed to be dragon gibberish. I've had it with just about everyone and everything. The whole thing stinks.

    I'm leaning toward the idea of Lucifer being at the center of a lot of things throughout history - good and bad. I've asked this question before: Lucifer = Lilith and/or Eve = Isis = Mary = Inanna = Anna (in 'V') = Whore of Babylon ruling Babylon aka UN, Vatican, City of London, Washington DC, Secret Government, Secret Space Program, Underground Bases, Alphabet Agencies, Jesuits, Royal Family, et al? Is Lucifer a Hybrid Mediatrix between a Reptilian/God/Satan and Humanity?

    What if Lucifer takes orders from Satan - and together they have a monopoly on monotheism - as well as the new age alternatives? Some of the ancient gods and goddesses may have been jerks - but that doesn't mean that those who opposed them are necessarily saints either. I'm thinking that Michael, Gabriel, and Lucifer need to stand aside - and allow We the People of Earth to rule ourselves with Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom. Why is this so hard?

    The first and last commandment should be 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods'. I'm not an atheist, but I'm not a true believer either. It's sort of strange - I think we should study the Bible and Theology - but I don't think we should bow down and worship anyone. I like Humanistic Christocentric Egyptological Science Fiction. Isn't that a mouthful?! I'm a walking contradiction! I'm so gonna burn! Right - Lucifer? I still want to hear you improvise at St. Sulpice or St. Ouen. Namaste. (Updating Note: The Ancient Egyptian Deity said that the source of the sacred classical music was not who I thought it might be. I have some ideas about this which I do NOT wish to share.)

    If Jesus is Lord - why don't Christians follow the Teachings of Jesus? I reverence the words of Christ - but I sometimes wonder who really wrote them. All of this is complex and confusing - and I'm sure we'll be fighting over this for decades or centuries.

    I don't think 2012 is the end. I'm thinking we all get recycled - whether we're good, bad, Christian, Luciferian, agnostic, atheist, whoever or whatever. The issue is what kind of world do we wish to get reincarnated back into. We should all try to make this solar system a paradise - rather than the purgatory that it is presently. Watch 'Pale Blue Dot' here on YouTube. It's by Carl Sagan - and puts things into perspective. Interesting that the reverse of Sagan is Nagas! Hmmmmmm.

    Watch 'the temptation of Jesus by the Devil in the wilderness' from 'Last Temptation of Christ' on YouTube. Jesus is tempted by both a male and female. Could the male be a Reptilian/Satan/God - and could the female be a female or androgynous human/reptilian hybrid mediatrix named 'Lucifer'? Notice that the female is dressed in red - reminding me of the 'Whore of Babylon'. Any thoughts? This clip is no longer available on You might need to buy the DVD.

    I think that Lucifer could be a more complex character than we can imagine. I'm imagining a very conflicted character - with extremes of good and evil - good intentions - unfathomable corruption - and very possibly bouts of insanity. I keep saying that Lucifer should retire - and be a relatively powerless advisor. I think we need a Solar System Exorcism to remove the really hardcore nasties - human and otherwise. The Solar System should be based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom.

    Look at 'orthodoxymoron threads' - select 'God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer et al', 'Amen Ra', 'United States of the Solar System', 'Lucifer - Deity of the Elite', 'Lucifer Effect', 'Red Letter Chruch', and others. I don't subscribe to the Christian or the Luciferian perspective on this subject. I'm all over the place on this one. I still want to share a bottle of fine wine with Lucifer - when this thing gets resolved - and I don't drink. I'm looking for comments - positive and negative.

    Perhaps Lucifer created the mythologies and theologies - which would include the Logos. This reminds me of an ill-fated thread on the original Project Avalon website regarding abraxasinas and the Council of Thuban. I consider Lucifer to be a god or goddess with a small 'g' - and not the Creator God of the Universe. This major God seems to be strangely absent in this Solar System. Were they removed or destroyed? Something is VERY screwed-up in this neck of the woods. What happened?

    What if Luciferianism is the esoteric side of Christianity - and Christianity is the esoteric side of Luciferianism? What if Lucifer has a monopoly on monotheism? International bankers finance both sides in wars - so why wouldn't Lucifer play both sides in the God vs Satan game? Perhaps the Father of Lies is a Real Mother! We need to focus on RESPONSIBILITY. We probably all get recycled - whether we're good or bad. But why not create a better world to get recycled back into?

    Isn't arguing about religion fun?! Perhaps when the esoteric and exoteric become one and the same thing - we may find out that most of us have been wrong all along - and that our delusions have a common source. Perhaps the gods and goddesses will come out of the closet and proclaim 'We Are All One'. I'm thinking that comparative religions and comparative gods and goddesses is a profitable study to help resolve all of the confusion. But we may not like the ultimate answers. We need to be honest.

    I tend to think that the entire human race is presently in purgatory - and that it is the choice of the entire human race - as to whether we will make this solar system a heaven or a hell for the entire human race. I also tend to think that churchianity and luciferianism are both deceptive in nature. One must engage in a multidisciplinary quest for the truth - in order to catch glimpses of universal and ultimate truth. The search is never ending. We never really arrive.

    Regardless of who God, Satan, Gabriel, Lucifer, Michael, Humans, Reptilians, Greys, Angels, and Demons are - we need to base this Solar System on Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom - and get rid of the lies and corruption. It seems that all is corruption and confusion. I continue to think of Lucifer as being a conflicted female or androgynous hybrid being - who is both good and evil - going way, way back in history. The corrupt rule the stupid.

    I'm still looking for a Christian church in the last 2,000 years which focused (and/or focuses) on the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus. Which church has the Words Attributed to Jesus as their Doctrinal Statement? The Words of Christ always seem to be at the back of the bus - or even under the bus. In some churches - Jesus is rudely on display - nailed to a cross - and then nailed to a wall - bleeding, mostly naked, and nearly dead - with His Teachings mostly ignored.

    Which scholar should I read to find substantiation for the assertion that Lucifer is not a fallen angel or goddess - but rather a Babylonian king? Could the sun referred to really be the Dog Star Sirius? Could God/Satan be from Sirius (Prince of Sirius)? Could this be the illumination behind the all seeing eye at the top of the pyramid on the dollar bill? Could the eye belong to Lucifer aka Whore of Babylon? I'm crazy - but not everything I say is wrong. Just 50%.


    What if Luficer wrote the Bible? I'm grasping at straws. I'm not a scholar - but I'm seeing Lucifer as being a powerful combination of good and evil - who needs to retire - and turn this solar system over to Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom. I'm just speculating - and seeing what response I get. It's educated speculation regarding a subject which is very hard to find proof for. The absence of Lucifer or Satan in the Bible - especially the Old Testament is fascinating.

    What about an original Human God and Reptilian Satan - and the Archangels Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer? What about an ancient War in Heaven involving all of the above? Are all of the above still alive? Where are all of the above? What are all of the above doing? Are all of the above sane? What if all of the above are disfunctional? What if it is up to Earth humanity to clean up a universal mess? What if the essence of this universal mess is a universal church? Just wondering.

    Regardless of the answers to the previous questions - I think we need a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System with No Gods or Goddesses. I think this would be in everyone's best interest - including gods, goddesses, humans, non-humans, whoever, or whatever. The Universal Powers That Be would have to sign-off on this, and I hope they have already done so, and are presently working out the details. This should be a top down bloodless revolution with evolutionary implementation.

    The first and last commandment should be 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods'. I sometimes think that Lucifer rebelled against a corrupt or insane theocracy, by trying to be a better god, and then failed miserably. I could be very wrong about this, but universe-history seems to be very screwed-up. The problem seems to be that 'Power Corrupts. Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely'. There seems to be no exceptions to this rule, which is why we should not have gods, in the traditional sense at least.

    Regardless of who God, Satan, Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, Jesus, Mary, Angels, Demons, or Aliens really are - and what they are doing - the human race needs to get it's act together in a great big hurry. We seem to be on the brink - with very high stakes. I feel an incredible sense of dread and pressure each and every day - as I contemplate our plight - and as I contemplate what to do about it. Consider the corruption, destruction, and carnage of the last 100 years.

    I just hope that all of the factions in this solar system - good, evil, and otherwise - are seriously considering uniting around the concept of a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System. I don't know what our history really is - or what the major issues really are. I'm flying blind - but I am trying to conceptualize what the most rational next step should be. The image at 3:15 is particularly interesting to me. Could this be the true form of Lucifer and/or Mary? Just wondering.

    I just watched the 2012 movie for the first time - and it scared the hell out of me. I hope that none of the factions in this solar sytem are seriously considering deliberately inflicting 'Earth Changes' on Planet Earth. This world obviously needs to be completely reformed and cleaned-up - in so many ways - but the Noah's Ark idea is a really bad one - in my unenlightened opinion. Would 4 billion people on Earth (2 billion surface and 2 billion sub-surface), and 4 billion people throughout the rest of the solar system (mostly subsurface) be a reasonable goal?

    I keep thinking that there is a possibility of a civilization of Human Souls in Human/Reptile Hybrid Bodies living in Underground Bases and Cities With Highly Advanced Ancient Human Technology - and that this constitutes the sum total of the 'Alien Presence' and the 'Secret Government'. I also keep thinking that a Human/Reptile Hybrid named Lucifer and/or Mary rules this Underground Empire. I know I'm crazy - but I am trying to test a hypothesis which could explain and resolve a lot of things.

    I just wanted to wish Satan, Lucifer, Gods, Goddesses, Angels, Demons, Archangels, Illuminati, Megalomaniacs, Reptilians, Greys, et al - a happy day and a terrific week. I really think we can work this thing out - without enslavement, extermination, Star Wars, or Masters of the Universe. Imagine 10,000 very competent humans engaging in Global and Solar System Governance - with advisors which might include all of the above. The absolute power corrupting thing seems to be the big problem.

    Are we dealing with Human Souls Inhabiting Human/Reptile Hybrid Bodies Living in Underground Bases? Are they Satan, Lucifer, Archangels, Gods, Goddesses, Angels, Demons, et al? Did they write the Bible and create most of the theologies and mythologies? Do they constitute the Secret Government? Do Hybrids live for hundreds of years, and are they relatively emotionless, very smart, expect reverential worship, and capable of great cruelty? Do they fly UFO's? Does tax and drug money finance them?

    Is the 'V' series (1984 and 2009) representative of my comment below? Is 'Anna' (Lucifer?) the leader of this hypothetical underground empire, and secretly the leader of us all? Is this the Holy Roman Empire aka The Kingdom of God aka The New World Order aka The Secret Government? Is the Dog Star Sirius at the center of all of this? Whatever the case may be - I am deeply concerned about the destruction of Earth and the horrible wars of the past 100 years - and the non-stop lying and corruption.

    I just want this solar system to be run properly - regardless of who the major players are. Has Responsibility been heavily promoted at any time in the history of the world? I've been passively promoting a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System in my internet comments. The response has been virtually non-existant. I don't have much of a problem with the way things are - except that everyone and everything seems to be massively screwed-up. WTF?

    The following comments are merely speculation. If some or all of it is true - I wouldn't have a problem interacting with these beings - but I'll be damned if they'll be my god and savior - who I have to bow down and worship. Consider the material of Bill Cooper, Alex Collier, Richard Sauder, Barry King (Bases Series), James Casbolt, John Rhodes, and the 'V' series. I'm treating all of this as science-fiction which could possibly be true. I'm not hostile about this - but I do want the truth.

    Here are two relevant and recommended interviews: 'YouTube Bases 4 Part 1 James Casbolt. & Matt Todd' or Google Video 'John Kuhles interviewed James Casbolt MI6 on UntoldMysteries Radio Part 1 of 4'. I'd love to tour the underworld and meet Satan, Lucifer, the Archangels, Gods, Goddesses, Reptilians, Greys, and the Secret Government. I wouldn't kneel and worship them - but I would be respectful. Can someone set this up? You know where I live. Unfortunately, I'd probably end up as lunch. 1. 2.

    Could someone please look at my comments in this thread, and do a point by point critique. My mind is not made up, and I'd love to be confused by the facts. I'm easily confused. I think reincarnation may exist, and I would so love to reincarnate back into a perfected solar system inhabited with perfected people. I think we are in Purgatory, on the brink of Heaven or Hell. Which is it gonna be? No one seems to want to seriously discuss my thoughts regarding Cleaning Up This Mess.

    What if Lucifer created most of the theologies, mythologies, and sacred texts? What if Lucifer is both good and evil? What if Lucifer created a very good - yet relatively powerless Jesus - as a red-herring? What if the Secret Government were based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom - and made completely open and transparent - instead of being Megalomaniacs Anonymous?

    Jesus said to Seek First the Kingdom of God, and that the Truth Would Set Us Free. Could a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System be the basis of a governmental system which sets us free? Is the Bible really a puzzle to be solved? Is the Bible really a cunningly devised fable created by Lucifer, with both truth and error? I continue to think that Lucifer may be a lot like Anna in 'V' and that the spaceships are really underground bases, and the basis of the Secret Government.

    Monotheism. From Akhenaten to Obamanaten. Perhaps Lucifer has a Monopoly on Monotheism. I don't trust anyone or anything - including the ancient wisdom, legends, mythologies, theologies, gods, goddesses, sacred texts, aliens, arse-ended masters, democrats, republicans, angels, demons, or even myself. I've had it with just about everyone and everything. The whole GD mess stinks from top to bottom. Delusions in conflict. World without end or meaning.

    I keep wondering if Lucifer rebelled against a deplorable situation (heaven might not have been heaven) and that this rebellion got out of control, resulting in the War in Heaven, and ultimately in corruption and insanity. There may be a lot more to 'stealing fire from the gods' than we can possibly imagine. The history of this world, solar system, galaxy, and universe may be stranger and more upsetting than we can possibly comprehend. I think Lucifer may have a Devil by the tail.

    I continue to suspect a hidden central power individual who is dominant throughout Earth history - who is a mixture of good and evil - who is very intelligent - yet at times, quite moody and unstable. Could this be Lucifer? Is the latest manifestation of Lucifer really Mary? I don't want to screw things up if it's best for certain things to remain hidden, but I continue to think that we really need to learn the full honest truth regarding our ENTIRE history, for better or for worse. The horror!

    The images at 00:40 and 03:15 are the ones which interest me most regarding the true form of Lucifer. I also wonder about 'Anna' in the series 'V' and the female spiritual leader of the indigenous population (Navi) of Pandora in 'Avatar'. The strong female behind the scenes (in the White House) in 'Contact' is of interest to me - as is 'Ra' in 'Stargate'. I imagine a female Lucifer travelling from Underground Base to Underground Base via Mach II Magneto Leviton Trains. 'Next stop - Vatican City'.

    I guess I'd like to see the Hypothetical Luciferian Secret Solar System Government replaced by a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System based upon the U.S. Constitution, with 10,000 representatives from around the world (and solar system?). The infrastructure should probably be largely unchanged, and current members of the Hypothetical Secret Government should probably be advisors or be some of the representatives (once they get out of prison??!!!). They have valuable knowledge.

    Watch 'Bill Cooper - UFO's and the Secret Government' - 'The Secret Underground Lectures of Commander X' - and 'Powers That Be' from 'Stargate SG-1' - and imagine a female Lucifer (human/reptile hybrid?) at the center of things. I mean no harm to anyone - including Lucifer - and I wonder if the Luciferian Goddess Concept should be an object of aspiration rather than veneration. Hmmmmm.

    Has anyone seriously considered my previous posts, especially regarding the possibility that Lucifer has manifested as goddesses throughout history (including Mary) and that currently Lucifer might bear a striking resemblance to Anna ('V' series)? What if Lucifer/Anna rules the solar system from underground bases, and travels from Washington DC to the United Nations, to the Vatican, to corporate headquarters, to genetics/hybrid labs, to ufo development centers via mach II magneto-leviton trains and ufo's? Please talk to me.

    I've noticed that a lot of comments relative to this subject are polarized into 'Lucifer is Satan, and will be destroyed by God!' OR 'Jesus and Christianity suck and Lucifer is my savior!'. I'm leaning toward the view that Lucifer invented most of the gods, goddesses, mythologies, sacred texts, and theologies - presides over (stolen?) ancient technology - has been both good and evil - might be a human/reptile hybrid - and might be responsible for the best and worst in human history. Does this resonate with anyone?

    I desire a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System. How might a transition of power occur if Lucifer/Anna really runs this solar system? They would obviously have vast knowledge and experience - but absolute power corrupts absolutely. Should Lucifer/Anna have a role in a 10,000 representative Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System based upon the U.S. Constitution and the Principles and Concepts in the Teachings of Jesus? Did Lucifer write the Teachings of Jesus?

    I seem to have an overwhelming desire to befriend Lucifer , and to convince Lucifer to retire. I don't wish to destroy Lucifer, or to worship Lucifer. Whatever the true state of affairs may be, I would like to see a 20 part high-budget TV series (and/or very long movie) ACCURATELY depicting our TRUE history, which would likely feature the role of Lucifer. I'm just speculating, but my theories (not necessarily unique to me) seem to resolve a lot of things (for me, at least). How about it Lucifer?

    Regarding my previous post: I once spoke to a close relative of a famous Hollywood director about doing a superior epic Life of Christ movie with the most advanced special effects. No clout - no results. And that was before Mel Gibson gave it a bloody go. Perhaps this early wish will be embodied in that which I described below. Hint, hint.

    Lucifer should retire - and become Satan Emeritas! Just kidding! I'm thinking that Lucifer and Satan are two different beings - but what the hell do I know? Or 'Who in hell do I know?!' Once again - watch 'V' (1983-5 and 2009-10), 'Hathor', and 'Powers That Be' from Stargate SG-1. I know this isn't very scholarly - but it might help you to visualize some of the aspects of who I suspect Lucifer might be. Also watch the 'Isis - Mary' parallel videos on You Tube. Connect the dots. 1. 2.

    It's as if the entire world is on a leviton train, and Lucifer is the engineer and the conductor, and this train isn't stopping for anyone or anything, including Jesus Christ and the U.S. Constitution. They have both become hood-ornaments on this hell-bound leviton train. My solution is to infuse the U.S. Constitution with the principles and concepts contained in the Teachings of Jesus, and go global. The mouse is mightier than the sword. I learned everything I know from 'Pinky and the Brain'!

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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:44 pm

    This post is mostly more reposting of various internet postings from the past. Most of these were posted on youtube several years ago. How time flies -- whether or not one is having fun! Some of my thinking has changed -- yet I have mostly left these posts unedited. Once again, this material is intended to help us all think about difficult subjects -- rather than my claim to exclusive-truth.

    I keep seeing a church in my mind's eye...with a group of well-dressed and solemn people meeting with Lucifer (who is dressed in black with a long cape) and looks like a combination of Ra in Stargate and Anna in 'V', and is very cold and stoic. Lucifer is wearing round black-rimmed glasses. The subject is theology, governance...and transition of power. The conditions have finally been met...which require Lucifer to transfer control of the solar system to 10,000 human beings.

    Lucifer is furious...and is arrogantly hissing 'We had you fooled!' 'What took you so long!' 'We didn't think you could do it!' 'You got out of our grasp just in time!' 'If you only knew what we had planned for you!' ' can try to rule yourselves!' 'Good luck! You're going to need it!' 'If you only knew what we've been through because of you!' 'If you only knew what we've had to do to keep you alive!' 'We were good to you!'

    With that...Lucifer rises...struts out of the room...and into an elevator...which descends to an unkown sub-level...boards a waiting leviton train...travels to Pine Gap, Australia at twice the speed of sound...and boards a mothership...filled with hardcore followers (humans, reptilians, and greys)...destination - Sirius. The date: December 21, 2012. (Perhaps I got the name and date wrong -- but I continue to think along these lines.)

    Regardless of my internet comments, I am very appreciative of all of the Powers That Be throughout history who have tried to do the right thing, regardless of their purity or corruption, and regardless of their success or failure. I am generally disrespectful and irreverent, but I mean no harm. My comments are not based upon any inside knowledge, so I am probably not even close to the real truth. I just want to stimulate everyone to think deeply in a sort of an esoteric masturbation of the mind.

    How many humans does it take to rule the world? Should humans rule the world at all? Is 'rule' the wrong word? I'm thinking of 10,000 as the magic number - with perhaps a group of 100 from the larger group - to travel throughout the world and solar system - to make sure that everything is operating properly - one on one. What do you think Lucifer's IQ might be? 500? How many PhD's might they have the equivalent of? 100? I'm just pulling these numbers out of an anatomical black hole. The horror.

    If Lucifer is a Female Satan - then the Luciferians and Satanists can chant 'I Love Lucy!' and sing 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds!' No offence Lucifer. I still want to share a bottle of fine wine and hear you improvise (preferably in Paris) when this mess gets resolved. I'm thinking that I may have seen you a couple of times - incognito. I'm interested in hearing the full and accurate story of who we really are - where we're really from - and how much trouble we're really in. The horror.

    Has an apostolic succession of Luciferian Goddesses carried the torch throughout history? Diana Lucifer? Mary Lucifer? Statue of Liberty? Columbia Pictures Goddess? (Notice the pyramidal cloud formation behind the goddess - with the fire/sun at the top of the pyramid [Sirius behind the All Seeing Eye?]). Promethius anyone? Notice the statue at the Rockefeller Center? Did Lucifer steal 'Fire from the Gods' in the form of nukes, computers, genetic hybridization, ufo's, etc. - and then kill 'God'?

    Watch 'Pale Blue Dot' by Carl Sagan and ask yourself 'how do we save the world?' I just watched '2012' for the second time, and I continue to wonder if so called 'Earth-Changes' will be deliberately inflicted, rather than naturally occurring, if they occur. If you were in charge of the world, what would you do? Should any one individual (God, Satan, Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, Mary, et al) be the ruler of us all, or should there be 10,000 representatives under the U.S. Constitution?

    I'd like to see pictures of Lucifer - before and after the fall. I'd like to see pictures of Luther - before and after the Diet of Worms. Einstein wanted to think God's thoughts after Him. Did he really think Lucifer's thoughts after her? Was Einstein instructed by Lucifer - as the video suggests? Lucifer supposedly instructed Darwin. I have speculated, and the video suggests, that Lucifer was the ghost-writer for William Shakespeare. Is our civilization more dependent on Lucifer than we realize?

    The Old Testament God is problematic. The God represented historically by the church is problematic. The Gods and Goddesses of mythology are problematic. Satan and Lucifer are problematic. Responsibility is Right. Irresponsibility is Wrong. The First and Last Commandment should be 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods'. This is a hard saying. Who can hear it? Are you going to back me up on this Lucifer?

    Is Lucifer a bit like Colonel Walter Kurtz in 'Apocalypse Now'? Also, watch 'The Lucifer Effect' 'Lucifer - Deity of the Elite' and 'orthodoxymoron threads' for more thoughts regarding Lucifer. I feel a bit like Martin Sheen in 'Apocalypse Now'. I started out as a Christian Soldier, but now (similar to Martin) I'm not in their @#$% army anymore. I wish to terminate Lucifer's command, but not with extreme prejudice. Retirement?

    Once again - I just want to wish Satan, Lucifer, Gods, Goddesses, Angels, Demons, Archangels, Illuminati, Megalomaniacs, Reptilians, Greys, et al - a terrific day. I really think we can work this thing out - without enslavement, extermination, Star Wars, or Masters of the Universe. Imagine 10,000 very competent humans engaging in Global and Solar System Governance - with advisors which might include all of the above. The absolute power corrupting thing seems to be the big problem. Namaste.

    I'm not too smart , even though I try to be, but I still want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and I want it more than peace and happiness. I want to understand everything beyond my realm. I wish to draw Satan and Lucifer out into the open, and reason with them, even though I am very certain that I am no match for them. We need disclosure now. My speculations may be pure unmitigated rubbish or poppycock - but they may be of value to a fellow truth-seeker.

    We are insecure about our existence because as soon as we leave the security of the womb - we are dumped into a Bottomless Pit of BS. We need the truth - and we need it now. You are correct, in that responsibility is key. However - there is compelling evidence that this solar system is run by the local chapter of Megalomaniacs Anonymous. They need to retire - and we need a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System - ASAP.

    It's not how we look - It's how we see. We need a solar system view - rather than a world view. Lucifer may be a she instead of a he. The father of lies may be a real mother. Lucifer may be so 'above it all' that they have lost touch with a lot of things. Holograms, soul-transference, soul-scalping, revivification, cloning, and reincarnation could allow Lucifer to change bodies as easily as we change our clothes. Just ask Leo the Lion of Zion Zagami.

    It amazes me how Christophobic the Christian Church is. I worry that the God of This World has done a lot of writing, dictating, and redacting of the sacred texts of all faiths. We know Jesus by devotionally studying the Teachings of Jesus. I believe that eventually everyone will enter into some sort of Paradise or Heaven - but that the Road to Utopia will be a lot smoother if we follow the Red-Letter Roadmap - instead of the Yellow Brick Road.

    I think Lucifer may have been running this solar system for a very long time - and that absolute power has corrupted them absolutely - and that it's very, very, very hard to let go of power once one has gained it. I worry that Lucifer is presently like a cornered and hurt animal - and may be extremely dangerous. I continue to think that Lucifer needs to retire, take a vacation, and then perhaps participate in some sort of a tribunal to examine their soul-history in great detail.

    We should reverence The Divinity Within Humanity aka The Holy Spirit aka The Epitome of the Human Collective Unconscious - and we should See Christ In All Persons. We should Seek the Exaltation of the Entire Human Race - rather than Self-Exaltation. Are we Gods with Amnesia? What Would Shirley Maclaine Say (WWSMS)? Did Lucifer Fight Theocracy With Theocracy?

    Someone said that Lucifer hides in plain sight. What did they mean? They offered no specifics. Lucifer might be posting on You Tube, possibly even under this video. I'm really tired of the cat and mouse game, where I'm the mouse. I keep getting the sinking feeling that no matter what we try to do, that things will end badly. Tangentially, reread the story of Lot and the 3 visitors. They were referred to as the "Lord" and men, but when perverted men wanted the visitors, why did Lot offer his daughters?

    Watch 'Hathor', 'Powers That Be', 'Counterstrike', 'The Quest Part 1', 'The Quest Part 2', and 'Dominion' from Stargate SG-1 on hulu(dot)com for possible pieces of the puzzle pertaining to this video and comments. This is not a scholarly approach - but sometimes one must consider something in entertainment form to be able to grasp it's equivalent in written or academic form. I like watching Stargate SG-1 because it forces one to think about a wide variety of possibilities. I love the characters!

    Could the Book of Life be contained in an Underground Base filled with Cray Supercomputers? Your comments appear to be somewhat cryptic. Should we be fully aware of both the good and bad sides of Lucifer - and then focus on the good side? In 'V' - I like the good side of Anna (she's hot!) - but I despise the bad side. She means no harm?

    If you like Anime - check out 'God is a Girl' on You Tube. Some might find this objectionable and risque. I endorse Reverencing the Divinity Within Humanity - and the Girl Aspect of Divinity should not be overlooked. Someone commented that they would rather have a Girl God than a Mean Old Man God! I am leaning toward the theory that most goddesses are Luciferian - and may describe Lucifer better than the typical stereotypes. Just speculation. Research this yourself. Good-luck!

    I don't wish to 'Hail Mary' nor do I wish to 'Hail Satan'. Jesus didn't command people to build churches to worship and praise him. Who is really worshipped and praised in the churches. Take a close look at Christian Symbology and the Eucharistic Liturgy. Study the Bible as an esoteric mental exercise, and don't consider it to be 66 books of absolutes. Try using the Companion Bible. The spirituality in the Bible is quite profound if you don't get bogged-down in the Contradictions and Atrocities.

    Watch 'Leo Zagami 2012 Armageddon' and '(1/10) Moziah Delivers Leo Lyon Zagami from Lucifer' on You Tube. Watch all ten parts. Please. Also - watch 'What if God Was One of Us?' on You Tube. There is a good Project Camelot / Leo Zagami interview on You Tube (3 parts). Leo is a real loose cannon - but I think he knows a helluva lot. I don't trust him - but he is worth listening to regarding the esoteric side of things. That which has been hidden is being revealed. The horror!

    Is it just a coincidence that this video was posted on December 21, 2007 - Five years before the infamous December 21, 2012? bravodawson seems to be inactive in the video discussion below - and has only posted this one video. This video portrays a rather obscure view of Lucifer. I stumbled upon this idea before I found this video. It was sort of a confirmation for me. Lynn Picknett has written some interesting things regarding Lucifer - and her books are worth checking out. Research endlessly!

    I think at this point in time - we should consider all of the possibilities all of the time. But this is hard work - and can lead to disillusionment and confusion. The Teachings of Jesus should probably be at the center of our research and reconsideration. Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, Satan, God, and the God of This World should be looked at very closely with unconventional methods of research. This isn't for everyone - and I don't recommend it for most people.

    I enjoy reading the Bible and theological books, but the ethics in the Bible are horrible. The Teachings of Jesus contain the best ethical guide for life, and even the words attributed to Jesus are not flawless. I'm toying with the heretical idea that Lucifer essentially wrote the Bible. I'm trying to think through everything, with Lucifer at the center of a lot of it, as being refined, decadent, profound, insane, angelic, demonic, progressive, regressive, ad infinitum, ad absurdum.

    No offense bravodawson, but what if Lucifer posted this video, or had someone post it? Is bravodawson an anagram? Is there a puzzle we must solve before December 21, 2012? Jesus said that 'the truth would set us free'. We seem to be in a very strange predicament. It's almost as if we are serving a sentence for some ancient atrocity or original sin. I think we need a multidisciplinary search for truth which is very motivated and organized. It feels as if we are running out of time.

    A very long time ago - while I was playing a huge pipe-organ - I had a Eureka Phenomenon Moment - and thought that a lot of the very abstract and complex organ music is the Music of a Sin-Sick Soul. I love the music - but it is deeply spiritual and deeply involved in conflict and reflection. I have rarely heard this music properly interpreted - with it's full emotional and spiritual potential fully reflected in the registration and performance. Did Lucifer inspire or write a lot of this music?

    Where are you bravodawson? You last visited your channel 2 years ago. You have not commented on your channel - despite numerous questions by others. I haven't seen you comment here below your video. What gives? Are you OK? The video is high quality - and very different from the usual view of Lucifer. I am very suspicious at this point. Do you live in an underground base? Are you Lucifer? Have you posted here under a different name? This inquiring mind needs to know on a need to know basis!

    Google 'Mark Dice interviews Lynn Picknett author of The Secret History of Lucifer' for a contentious interview which touches on a positive view of Lucifer. Someone should start at the beginning of the video comments - and read every one. I'm going to do this over the next few days. Google 'abraxasinas' and/or the 'Council of Thuban' for some very, very strange and complex material, which I think could be related to Lucifer. Reader beware. Some have had problems connected with this material.

    Actually - type 'Stargate SG-1 Awesome Gods?' into the You Tube search field. Look closely at the anatomy of the 'angel' at 2:30 (in the 'True Form of Lucifer' video). Am I seeing things which might indicate a hermaphrodite? Regardless of who Lucifer, Michael, Gabriel, Adam, Eve, Lilith, Reptilians, Greys, Gods, Goddesses, God, and Satan are or aren't - could there be, or have been, Hermaphroditic Human/Reptile hybrids with various percentage differentials? We should consider all of the possibilities - shouldn't we?

    I think we may not be dealing the Creator God of the Universe - but rather with Minor Gods and Goddesses - who may be a mixture of good and evil, competence and incompetence, sanity and insanity, mercy and cruelty, etc. They may have created our theologies and mythologies. I'm thinking that we all get recycled - whether we are good or bad - but that we should create a better world to get recycled back into.

    I'm not sure if the human race is ready for a journey into the truly esoteric. Things are so screwed-up and we are so screwed-up. But I do think that working outward from the word 'RESPONSIBILITY' is the way to go. How each person does this is up to them. I have huge problems with the way things are - but the alternatives might turn out to be a lot worse. Don't jump out of the frying-pan - and into the fire. Things might have to get a lot worse - before they get better. Hang in there!

    I just wish for a perfected humanity to inhabit a perfected solar system, without cruel eugenics and experimentation, conquest, extermination, enslavement, etc. I wish for a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System, with 10,000 representatives from throughout the solar system, with say 4 billion people on Earth (2 billion underground - 2 billion surface) and 4 billion in the rest of the solar system.

    I was going to stop - but this is insane. What violent, bloody, sacrificing, hateful, idolatrous web page did I give you? I could have simply referred you to the Bible for the miserable things you mentioned. Open your eyes and read without presupposition - and you will be shocked at what you find in the Bible. Read Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy - and cap it off with Revelation. Be completely honest. This stuff is horrendous. Just focus on RESPONSIBILITY.

    This world is insane. Evolution seems to be working in reverse. I am sick and tired of the stupidity and insanity I see everywhere. I mostly blame those in the highest positions of irresponsibility in this world and solar system. Garbage in - garbage out. Has RESPONSIBILITY been focused upon at any time in the entire history of the world? Is it being focused upon today? Obama mentioned it in his inaugural address - but I doubt that his handlers would relish a world based upon RESPONSIBILITY.

    I am not a Christian or a Satanist. (I don't go to church or belong to any organization -- but my belief-system leans strongly toward Christianity.) I adore the best the Bible has to offer - but I despise the worst it has to offer - especially in God's name. I want a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System - based upon the U.S. Constitution and the Principles in the Teachings of Jesus - chiefly RESPONSIBILITY. Why is this so hard? We need to wake-up to how bad things really are - and then we need to fix it. I really think we're running out of time. Read 'Behold a Pale Horse' by Bill Cooper.

    Once again - I just want to wish Satan, Lucifer, Gods, Goddesses, Angels, Demons, Archangels, Illuminati, Megalomaniacs, Reptilians, Greys, et al - a terrific day. I really think we can work this thing out - without enslavement, extermination, Star Wars, or Masters of the Universe. Imagine 10,000 very competent humans engaging in Global and Solar System Governance - with advisors which might include all of the above. The absolute power corrupting thing seems to be the big problem. Namaste.

    I thought God put out a contract on Sodom and Gomorrah - which was carried out by a couple of angels when they nuked the 'Cities of the Plain' - and thus committed mass-murder in God's name. Good thing they saved 'Righteous Lot' - who had just offered his daughters up to be sexually abused by a mob of perverts. Strange world. The substitutionary atonement is nothing more than human sacrifice. Is the Eucharistic Liturgy essentially a Satanic Ritual? I must stop.

    Sometimes I feel as though I'm morphing into Darth Vader. Do we have to understand the Dark Side of the Force in order to resolve this mess? Just as I typed this - a bright point of light (my guardian monitor?) passed between me and the monitor. I've seen that happen before. The horror. Sometimes I curse and flip-off the unseen beings around me. I'll probably lose my finger one of these times. The horror. Sometimes I speak to them of galactic issues - although I don't wish for them to reply.

    Watch the 'Last Temptation of Christ - Jesus Tempted by the Devil' on You Tube. Is the slick-haired male 'Satan' aka 'Gabriel' aka 'Ra' aka 'Sirius God'? Is the 'Woman in Red' the 'Whore of Babylon' aka 'Lucifer' aka 'Hathor' aka 'Isis' aka 'Mary' aka 'Mediatrix' aka 'Baldacchino'? Is Jesus really 'Horus' aka 'Last Pharaoh' aka 'Michael'? Is the 'Woman in Red' the mediator between the two men? Is this 'Woman in Red' currently 'Anna in V'? Is 'Anna' caught between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea?

    Are the Archangels men or women - or both? Or are they all one? Satan said 'it's only just begun'. Jesus cried and cried. Why? Are we Prisoners of War on a Prison Planet with Grey Guards - a Hermaphroditic Human/Reptile Hybrid Goddess/Warden - taking orders from a Reptilian God of This World? Watch 'Pale Blue Dot', 'Leo Zagami - 2012 Armageddon', 'Legion Trailer', and 'Stargate - Devil Came to Me' on You Tube. How much trouble are we really in? How do we fix it? Conduit Closing. The horror. 1. 2.

    What if all of us are 'fallen angels'? What if heaven wasn't really heaven - and there was a legitimate rebellion which got out of control? Would 33.33% of the heavenly population have joined Lucifer if there weren't some convincing arguments for doing so? How many fence-riders were there? Fence-riders form splinter-groups! The Babylonian and Egyptian continuity through Roman Catholicism is fascinating. Can hermaphroditic angels have wives? The plumbing wouldn't be a problem - would it?

    I think that there are at least a million people who really, really know the full and uncensored story of human history - but they don't seem to be talking. This makes all of this a great big guessing game. Perhaps it has to be this way - but I hate it with a vengeance. I feel as though this world has been out of control throughout it's history. Perhaps Earth is a Devil's Island for Rebels - and we got dumped here - and left to our own devices - as an example to the rest of the universe.

    When Henry Kissinger was finding out about a lot of things (including the 'alien presence') he worked night and day - and would speak to no one - not even his wife - and they eventually divorced. He couldn't have been finding out about good and happy things. Notice that Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski shepherd President after President. David Rockefeller is another one who I am sure knows everything about everything. I believe that these people do as they are told. Just speculation.

    In all of my internet comments - including the ones under this video - I have absolutely no animosity toward anyone. I'm just trying to talk out a unified theory of what the hell is going on. I really wish to unite various factions under a big tent. I don't expect everyone to hold hands and sing kumbaya - and I don't expect things to ever be really good. I'd just like to see a reasonably peaceful and happy solar system - going forward for millions of years. Hope springs eternal.

    Take a long, hard look at Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer - from all sources and angles. Also - watch the 'Stargate SG-1' series and 'V' series. I know I'm being repetitious. Read 'The Great Controversy' by Ellen White. Read 'Behold a Pale Horse' by Bill Cooper. I'm not trying to represent that I have 'the truth'. I'm just trying to stimulate creative thinking regarding subjects which may be very important for all of us. Get lots of exercise in nature, and a lot of rest. Good-luck!

    The problem is that the Bible doesn't say a helluva lot about Lucifer (hardly mentioned), the devil or demons (mostly in the Gospels). I find this to be very curious and suspicious. Jesus said that the angels didn't marry. If they were hermaphroditic they wouldn't need to marry - would they? In general - the words of Jesus seem to be in conflict with the rest of the Bible - and they don't seem to be followed by the church. What is the true nature of the soul? Are all souls basically identical?

    Look-up Angels, Archangels, Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer, Satan, the Devil and Demons - in a Concordance (preferably Strong's). You may be shocked at their absence in the Old Testament - and at their scarcity in the New Testament (outside of the Gospels). The Teachings of Jesus seem to be at war with the rest of the Bible and with the Christian Church. The Roman Catholic Church ran the biblical cannonization (and redacting?) process. Who ran and runs the Roman Catholic Church?

    Watch 'Empire of the City' or 'Ring of Power'. Also watch 'Rule by Secrecy' by Jim Marrs. One cannot simply rely upon biblical proof-texts to get at the real truth regarding solar system governance. I think the world will be shocked by how things really work when the entire truth emerges - if it ever emerges. While you're at it - Google Alex Collier - for some very strange material. I don't believe a lot of it - but Alex offers up a helluva lot of forbidden knowledge.

    I'm thinking that all of the humanoid beings in the universe have the same type of souls - but inhabit different types of bodies - in various stages of hybridization, genetic-programming, or evolution. This includes Angels, Demons, Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, Gods, Goddesses, Reptilians, Greys, Aliens, PGLF's, et al. Oh what a tangled web we weave - when we try to take over and rule the whole GD universe! I think the deception is rampant - and completely out of control. I am very disillusioned.

    While you try to figure all of this out - try watching or listening to 'Traditional Latin Mass: Feast of the Sacred Heart' on You Tube. I do this a couple of times a week. I'm sort of ultra-conservative, ultra-liberal, apologetic, heretical, etc. - all in one. I'm sort of an orthodoxymoron. Google 'redletterchurch' and 'orthodoxymoron' if you really want to get screwed-up! Have fun! Don't take this stuff too seriously! Treat it like science-fiction or a mystery novel. I really am going to stop.

    Have a terrific day Satan, Lucifer, Gods, Goddesses, Angels, Demons, Archangels, Illuminati, Megalomaniacs, Reptilians, Greys, et al. We can work this thing out without enslavement, extermination, or Star Wars. Imagine 10,000 very competent humans engaging in Global and Solar System Governance with advisors which might include all of the above. The absolute power corrupting thing seems to be the big problem. I'm trying to think like an uncorrupted renegade Jesuit or Alphabet Agent. Funny huh?

    I like thinking about how things really work in the world, solar system, galaxy, and universe - without getting involved in a lot of the creepy or really weird topics and theories. I don't really see eye to eye with anyone. If you were in charge of this world or solar system - what would you do? If Lucifer is a lot like Anna ('V') and runs the solar system - what would it be like to do what they do? What would it be like to deal with Presidents, Popes, CEO's, Generals, Jesuits, et al every day?
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Earth-Day-2011

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    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Empty Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:50 pm

    Here is just some more reposting of old posts. I think I'm in sort of a 'holding-pattern' right now. My posting experience has been rather creepy and unsettling, because of the lack of meaningful conversation. It's been pretty much one-way -- but perhaps this has been a character-building experience. I'd still like to really get into a deep online discussion -- and it would need to be online -- because I'm too exhausted and burned-out to do this sort of thing in 'real-life' in the 'real-world' in 'real-time'. Preparing me for a press-conference would be like reinventing the wheel. What Would Ronald Reagan Say?? What Would Alexander Haig Say??

    I like science-fiction -- but it always seems to involve chasing and fighting. Perhaps I should just study astronomy -- and use my imagination to create non-violent, non-creepy science-fiction. I feel as if I need to go in a completely different direction -- but I'm just not sure which way to jump. Perhaps Astronomy combined with Classical-Music would be a winning combination. BTW -- I suspect that there will be some sort of a 'God-Off' in the near future. This should be interesting! Could someone arrange to get me a front-row seat and a back-stage pass?? Actually, I'd probably rather watch this sort of thing. Think of this as being orthodoxymoron and the Queen of Heaven! Sorry if that offends anyone. Really. Anyway, I hope you enjoy reading the blast from the past posted below:

    I like thinking about being a part of a completely non-corrupt solar system government staffed with very, very wise and competent people, with most governmental activities viewable by the general public in real time online. Advanced technology and spacecraft, underground bases, leviton trains, and highly refined people, are all fascinating to contemplate. Why is there war, starvation, preventable disease, destitute poverty, and environmental irresponsibility in our 'civilized world'? WTF?

    I look forward to the time when most people can discuss politics and religion extensively - without getting angry. Consider Psychology/Ethics/Politics/Rel­igion/Science as a unified and non-contradictory whole. If Lucifer runs things - and retired - would this usher in a chaotic power struggle? Could we really rule ourselves? I have been mysteriously told 'you can't rule yourselves'. What is the substance to that chilling pronouncement? Who said that to me? Could it have been Lucifer? Hmmmmmm

    Google 'Omega Files' for a fascinating look at what might be a part of a Luciferian Secret Government. I obviously don't know what's true and false in fringe research, but it doesn't hurt to consider everything from all angles all the time, without getting mad or going mad. If there is a secret government, it shouldn't be secret. I don't necessarily object to the infrastructure and the best of their alleged activities - but I despise the worst of what they are supposedly mixed-up in. The horror.

    I'm thinking most 'Humanoid Aliens' are really Human/Reptile Hybrids with Human Souls. I'm not sure which Heins 57 Variety was here first. Does it really matter? Who has the right to continue living here? We need a Solar System Exorcism to rid us of the worst of the worst. They could be imprisoned on Nibiru until they learn to play nice. We need a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka United States of the Solar System based on the U.S. Constitution and Teachings of Jesus.

    Have a terrific day Satan, Lucifer, Gods, Goddesses, Angels, Demons, Archangels, Illuminati, Megalomaniacs, Reptilians, Greys, et al. We can work this out without enslavement, extermination, or Star Wars. Imagine 10,000 competent people engaging in Global and Solar System Governance with advisors which might include all of the above. The absolute power corrupting thing seems to be the big problem. I'm trying to think like an uncorrupted and unfallen Lucifer - thinking her thoughts after her!

    Should Hybrids be considered to be Humans? Should Nibiru be considered part of the Solar System? What is Lucifer doing presently? What should Lucifer do after she retires? Would a Solar System without Gods or Goddesses really work over an extended period of time? So many questions. So little time.

    Consider the King James Version of the Bible, the Writings of Ellen G. White, and the Writings of William Shakespeare. Who really and truly wrote them? Who told them what to write? Is there a common authorship? Lucifer perhaps? The writing style and spirituality is quite profound - but I have huge problems with a lot of the details. I'm grasping at straws with this post - but please do some esoteric research if you have time. I'm toying with the idea that an 'Anna-like' Lucifer is behind a lot of things.

    I recommend 'God and the New Physics' by Paul Davies - and 'Dancing Wu Li Masters' by Gary Zukav. I have problems with Quantum Entanglement - and also with the implications and ramifications of the Theory of Relativity. Has the human race been seeded with screwy philosophy and science? I think so. My spirituality and scientific acumen seemed to peak around puberty. Then I proceded to become disillusioned by just about everything. It's been downhill ever since.

    Consider all of the Malachi Martin videos on You Tube - especially the Art Bell interviews which touch on Luciferianism and Satanism. 'The Keys of This Blood' is quite interesting as well. The human race seems to have been led through a very deceptive and bloody wilderness for at least 40,000 years by those who knew better. I am horrified by the past - and very apprehensive regarding the future. Something has been very, very wrong for a long, long time. The horror.

    Is Lucifer the controlling force in most governments and religions? It's as if the entire world is on a leviton train...and Lucifer is the engineer and the conductor...and this train isn't stopping for anyone or anything...including Jesus Christ and the U.S. Constitution. They have both become hood-ornaments on this hell-bound leviton train. My solution is to infuse the U.S. Constitution with the principles and concepts contained in the Teachings of Jesus and go global.

    The 'Law of Confusion' is a descriptive and appropriate term...but I tend to eschew obfuscation...and to espouse elucidation. A Christocentric eschatological theological approach to scriptural studies which utilizes the concept of comprehensive concentration......which assumes the red-letter teachings of Jesus as being fundamental...with the remaining portions of the biblical canon as being merely contextual...cross-referencing utilizing a Strong's Concordance...and applying the accepted norms of grammatical-historical supremely beneficial regarding definitively and devotionally ascertaining the Christ Conscious Aspects of the First Source and Center of All fully experience Jesus as Lord in modernity......being careful to exegete...rather than eisegetically twisting and corrupting the sacred texts to conform to canon law (there is no substantial body of evidence which substantiates transubstantiation) as not to become a reprehensible and reprobate hermeneutic whore...a cursed Judas Iscariot in dire need of prostrate penetance, confession, repentance, and reconciliation...and in grave danger of burning for all eternity as a sinner in the hands of an angry God. World Without End. Amen.

    Study carefully Anna in the ABC series 'V' which started in the fall of 2009 - and is a remake of the 1983-85 'V' series. Morena Baccarin plays Anna - and has also been featured as an Ori leader in 'Stargate SG-1'. The full 2009-10 'V' series (so far) is being released on DVD. I'm trying to think of Anna as being Lucifer, or at least representing aspects of what I think of as Luciferian. This is mostly new territory for me. I am of peace.

    In the movie 'Contact' - beginning around 00:40 - who is the attractive pigmented women who seems to be running things behind the scenes? Who are the 'Black Madonna' and 'Kali' really? Anna? Damned if I know - but I'm really not seeing a lot of really vigorous and independent alternative thinking regarding this very important and pressing subject. I keeping asking questions and making speculations - and the silence is deafening. Did the MIAC stage the 'alien event' in 'Contact'? Hmmmmmmmmm

    Google 'Roger Morneau' and 'New World Order - Devil in the Vatican' for a couple of real eye-openers. I have repeatedly suggested that Lucifer might be the Biblical 'Whore of Babylon'. I hate that name - and no offence to you Lucifer - but I am simply trying to determine what the hell has been going on in this solar system for tens of thousands of years. I just think that it's time for the esoteric to become exoteric. Everyone should at least have the opportunity to be on the same page.

    Is there a good side and a bad side to Lucifer? If so - shouldn't we be fully aware of both of these sides? In the 'Stargate Atlantis' movie - there is a female Wraith character who is very creepy. Could this be representative of a deranged goddess - who at one time had been highly intelligent and refined - but who had gone insane? I continue to speculate that absolute power inevitably leads to corruption and insanity - with virtually no exceptions. I'm not sure what the proper balance point is.

    An underground centralized world government has some attractive features - but if such a government exists - it really should not be secret and/or dictatorial. I don't object to a lot of the way things are in the world - but I do wish for things to be cleaned-up and refined. The 'alien presence' as 'secret government' theme continues to fascinate me - but the secrecy and bs are very hard to overcome - and I feel as though I'm spinning my wheels as I slide further from the center of the wheel.

    The experiential aspects of Christianity are valid and wholesome, but I am concerned by a lot of the details in the sacred texts, and with the skeletons in the confessional. I think a lot of people are going to lose their faith and go nuts in the next few years. I'm trying to put out a lot of fires by starting some preemptive fires - which might backfire. Consider a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System based upon the U.S. Constitution and Teachings of Jesus.

    The technology and light we were supposedly given might not be in our best interest. Consider nuclear weapons and the social implications of the theory of evolution - and who knows what else. We need to focus on responsibility - and take a step back from irresponsible and destructive industrialization and technology. The 'quickening' which Art Bell refers to is a valid point. Engines which rev too highly - EXPLODE!! Our world may be on the verge of exploding in more ways than one.

    Regardless of whether you are Luciferian, Satanist, Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, Indifferent, or Damned if I Know - try reading the Four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) straight through a couple of times. This is a good mental and spiritual exercise - regardless of what conclusions you arrive at. Then - try getting a lot of exercise in nature - and a lot of rest. Top it off with some really good food and music - and see what that does for you! Just a thought.

    Lucifer - would you consider posting here? I keep thinking about solar system governance, and I keep wondering if it requires a single authority, a committee, a general assembly, or everyone, to properly run things. Why does everything important seem to be off-limits to us goyim? What is a legitimate threat to National Security, and what is a threat to Megalomaniacs Anonymous? I'm really not clear on who the good-guys and who the bad-guys are. I see a masters vs cattle paradigm. I don't approve.

    Lucifer, I keep thinking of you as being an eccentric, corrupted, and unbalanced 'Anna', who is very bright, yet is not doing that which is in the best interests of the Human Race. Is this unfair and/or inaccurate? Why rule by secrecy? Why is history filled with lies, corruption, insanity, and violence? Why don't we have a perfected humanity living in a perfected solar system? Why are the sacred texts and religions so insanely contradictory? Why is everything not based upon responsibility?

    Lucifer: Do you live in an underground base? Do you travel the world in magneto-leviton trains? Do you travel the solar system in ufo's? Do you play pipe-organs in cathedrals? Do you directly rule the City States - and thus the world? Why was a simple system of psychology/ethics/politics/rel­igion/spirituality/science/law based upon responsibility not established in the ancient world? Why isn't there one today? What do you think of a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System?

    Lucifer: Are you mad at me for asking so many questions, and being so brash and irreverent? Have you dispatched 'angels' to reign me in? What is the true power structure in this solar system and galaxy? Why aren't we being told the truth about everything? Have you manifested as Lilith, Hathor, Isis, Mary, et al? Did you write the Bible? If you have been evil and committed atrocities, is there redemption for you? Are you responsible for the Reptilian and Grey phenomenon? What's going on? Namaste.

    I get most of my info about Jesus from the words attributed to Him in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. This is a different Jesus than the one encountered in church on any Sunday. Come to think of it, did Jesus tell us to go to church on Sunday? Did Jesus tell us to go to church on Saturday (Sabbath)? Did Jesus tell us to go to church at all? I can't find the texts. Please help! Thank-you for your prayer. I regularly watch a Latin Mass from France on You Tube!

    I agree with a lot of what a particular self-proclaimed Satanist says philosophically - but I don't understand why they are so hostile toward Jesus and Christians. Why not go after corrupt Sirius Centered Babyonian/Egyptian/Roman Goddess Ruled Churchianity? Once again, I am not a Christian, Luciferian, or Satanist. My hope is built on nothing less than an esoteric understanding of the Teachings of Jesus. I'm presently considering all of the forbidden knowledge on the internet, in the light of the words of Christ. Crucifixes Suck.

    I'm leaning toward the theory of a feminine Lucifer, but proof is hard to come by for any of this sort of thing. The evidence is thin and scattered. I arrived at this bias before I saw this video. I am pursuing a theory of Goddess Rulership of Earth - just to see where it leads. It's a combination of evidence and imagination - and it's really a very strange space to be in. I don't recommend this pursuit for most people. It's making me nuttier than I already was - and that's pretty bad.

    Christianity has thrived through misrepresentation rather than through honesty. It has thrived on lies. Now - too many people are asking too many hard questions. Game over. However, there is honest truth contained in all sacred texts. You just have to be a glutton for punishment to get at it, and to establish it in people's thinking. Your Lucifer is essentially a figment of the imagination. The Christian's Jesus is essentially a figment of the imagination. We see what we wish to see.

    Albert Schweitzer - in the 'Quest of the Historical Jesus' arrived at very negative conclusions regarding the validity and reality of the Historical Jesus - yet Schweitzer was very positive and supportive of the Teachings of Jesus. I agree. I have some Schweitzer quotes in my computer - and one day I found key portions of these quotes in bold print. I didn't do this. Honestly. My enemy is BS. I am trying to contemplate a Post BS Solar System. I am trying to follow the truth wherever it leads.

    I am fascinated by the concept of strong, intelligent, and beautiful black women as goddesses with complete reincarnational recall, use of 100% of brain capacity, and complete access to all ancient texts, wisdom, and technology - and possibly being hybrids living in underground bases and temples - and constituting the Secret Government - a Babylonian/Egyptian/Grecian/Ro­man Theocracy - with the City States as the tip of the iceberg of an Underground Empire. I'm sane - aren't I? Please say yes!!

    I'm really going to go out on a limb with this comment. I heard a fairly authoritative speaker say that the Pope (possibly John Paul II) would go down into the basement of the Vatican every morning, and kiss a statue of the Black Madonna. But what if she wasn't a statue? I heard a reliable source say that a priest asked 'What if God is a Black Woman?' I have also heard reports of an Underground Base under the Vatican containing Reptilian Beings. Consider who ruled Kemet in Ancient Egypt. Hmmmmmm

    I want to take a vacation from the razzmatazz (I got that word from abraxasinas) - but here I go again. This was a short unedited internet exchange I had some time ago:

    ME: What if the aliens who have been here for thousands of years are the 'bad-guys'? What if we will need the help of good aliens from elsewhere to get rid of the demonic aliens who are already here? Could this be viewed as a hostile alien attack? I really don't know. I am just speculating.

    THEM: Try not to think in terms of good or bad. Understand this is not your planet. Then, understand nothing can be done to you that you don't do to yourself. Know that there are quadrillions of planets and they don't have a massive climate change every 26,000 years and violent deranged people like yourselves. Why on Earth would any race want to live here with you knowingly? The most intelligent life on the planet is not human.

    ME: I'll try not to think of the Iraq War in terms of good or bad. I'll try to be morally ambiguous. I might even become CIA or a CEO. Hey, maybe violent and deranged is neither good nor bad...but thinking makes it so. The aliens who are here need us to not get our acts together. If that happens...they'll probably have to live on Nibiru...or worse. Sorry for being a smart-@ss. Wait...I'm not's neither good nor bad. I couldn't resist. I mean well. Really.

    THEM: And your point was?........

    ME: Who owns earth? Where do humans belong? What is the most intelligent life on earth? If they are so smart, and earth is so bad...why are they here? I may be deranged...but I'm not violent. You sound as though you are not human...are you an alien? If so...what kind...and from where? My point was that ethics are supremely important. I don't hurt, kill, terrorize, or abduct people...but some aliens apparently do(as do some humans). They should stop.

    Don't take my comments too seriously. I'm just blowing off some excess steam to keep from exploding! The devil made me do it. I think I got most of it out of my system, and I mean no harm. I am of peace. I am a seeker of 'The Bliss'. I just see patterns in the clouds, and everywhere. I am a true believer in the apotelesmatic principle. My attention to this subject should probably be taken as a complement rather than a hateful slam. I'm just trying to understand.

    I have had some exposure to Robert Morningsky and the Terra Papers, but I will have to spend more time with them. I hesitated to make all of the posts above - but I thought it might stimulate someone to arrive at the REAL answers. I'm just pursuing an admittedly off the wall hypothesis which could make a lot of people very angry at me - and not without legitimate reason. I am VERY uncomfortable with all of this. I have more, which I will post later today. Veritas and Conscious Media Network are both great resources and repositories of quality information.

    I am probably a composite of Pinky and the Brain - or Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb! Actually - I guess I just want to see who the man or woman behind the curtain really is. I actually feel like an insightful and virtuous - yet unstable and incompetent - wannabe somebody! The madness continues:

    Wanna go on a debate-date Lucifer? We could debate architecture, music, theology, eschatology, universal history, universal governance, and transition of power at Mork 'n Ork's Grey Bar on the Dark Side of the Moon! What shall we talk about? We could discuss the Soteriological and Eschatological Implications of the Hybrid Nature of the God of This World - or Original Sin in Heaven: The Mystery of Iniquity in the Great Controversy Between the Reptilian and Human Races in the Conflict of the Ages.

    That would just be an appetizer. Protection would obviously be a major concern. You'd have to promise not to bite my head off on the first date. I'm not really into the really rough black widow tough love. (In 'V' - notice what happened when Anna mated with a Supersoldier --- she bit his %^&* head off to nourish her eggs! I posted this debate-date stuff before the 'V' series went to air. You don't suppose!! Nah!) You're the one my mother warned me the book of Revelation! The NSA wouldn't mind handling the logistics...would they? Do you mind if I call you Lucy? If the date goes well...I could say 'I love Lucy!'

    There have been some very interesting and angry comments directed toward me regarding my speculations and venturings. This is all just a test. This is only a test. This is pseudointellectual research at its best! When I commented on the "Devil Came to Me - Stargate' video (on You Tube), I received this response: 'Y'all love fantisizing over my ancestral decorations, places, spirituality that you don't get, the greatness you won't achieve, and the melanin you'll never have!. This depiction of my ancestors is pathetic. Y'all always make them look just as degenerative and recessive as you. Anyway, play and have fun as much as you still can. Yes you are running out of time, and to be honest, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. I have no mercy, you lie and mock and blaspheme all the way to hell.'

    The following comment was in response to me pretending to be the alien KRLLL: 'You know this isn't funny! The Lord God will judge you for claiming God ship. Just because God showed you a little bit of His secrets you think you know everything. He will NOT have mercy on you!'

    I once heard a mocking, sing-song, high-pitched feminine sounding voice...emanating from a usually deep and masculine voiced televangelist...directed toward public...almost shouting 'That was gooooooood!!!!' reaction to a polite, well intentioned, and well reasoned comment by me.

    Have a terrific day Satan, Lucifer, Gods, Goddesses, Angels, Demons, Archangels, Illuminati, Megalomaniacs, Reptilians, Greys, et al. I'd like to meet all of you when this mess gets resolved. We need a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System aka United States of the Solar System based on the U.S. Constitution and Teachings of Jesus. Repetition, repetition, repetition, and ACTION! (Thank-you W. Clement Stone). I'm trying to understand Lucifer by thinking her thoughts after her!

    I just can't stop. Watch 'Avatar' - and think of Pandora as being the hypothetical 'Hollow Earth' (where else could mountains fly?) - and think of the indigenous population as being reptilian beings with human souls. Then think of the female spiritual leader as possibly being a Lucifer/Goddess figure. I am not necessarily anti-Lucifer despite my flippant comments. I'm just trying to understand what could be an unbelievably complex and awkward situation. Thinking outloud might help others.

    Once again - watch the movie 'Contact' - especially from 00:40 to 01:35 - and notice the behind the scenes lady in charge dressed first in grey, and then in blue or purple. Notice the facial expressions, the eye and head movements - and then watch Dr. Steven Greer at the 2001 Disclosure press conference (especially after the question directed to Clifford Stone) - and notice the similarity. This is probably insignificant and irrelevant - but for those who might be interested - take a look. Was Mr. Hadden a Teutonic Zionist? Was the 'event' staged by the secret space program? Why all the God talk?

    Is there a similarity between Morena Baccarin as Ori leader in 'Stargate SG-1' and Morena as Anna in the series 'V' (regarding the characters and roles portrayed) AND the powerful and pretty lady in grey (later in purple) in 'Contact' who seems to be VERY in charge? I'm just grasping at straws regarding the female Lucifer theme - wherein Lucifer is not the stereotypical red-guy with horns and a tail. Mr. Hadden almost seems like a Satan figure - again in a non-stereotypical manner.

    My last three comments were real stretches, and I am slightly embarrassed. On the other hand, is it necessary to have a very intelligent and very competent behind the scenes individual shuttling secretly thoughout the world directing this and mediating that? Who really determines what goes into teleprompters around the world? Who has veto power? I mentioned Dr. Greer mainly because he seems to have a direct connection to the so-called 'alien presence'. I'm just trying to figure out the madness.

    Being asleep is a bad thing. Being a rebel without a clue is a bad thing. Where is the proper balance? I'm going to attempt to study the U.N., Washington D.C., the City of London, and the Vatican - in a detached and neutral manner - noting both the positives and negatives - the exoteric and esoteric - and then contemplate positive evolutionary solutions. From time to time I might see Lucifer lurking in the shadows. I might even ask her out on a date...

    This subject is so frightening to me - that I have to treat it like a big science fiction joke - sort of like a surgeon listening to rock music and telling jokes while performing brain surgery. 'The Schiavo case was a no-brainer. Oops! There goes the piano lessons! My bad! Anyone wanna go for a ride in my new Enzo Ferrari?' Sorry. I sometimes wonder if Lucifer sometimes performs critical aspects of certain surgeries. How far down do certain Otis elevators really go into the sub-levels of certain hospitals? What are those proton-accelerators really used for - other than targeting tumors - without destroying the surrounding healthy tissue? What would the DOE say? What would 'Time to Tell the World' say? Notice the dominant high-technology medical theme in 'V'? Is modern medicine as much a part of the New World Order as the Military Industrial Alien Complex seems to be? I've made my point. Now I need to stop. They have ways to make me stop! Don't chip me bro! Don't vaccinate me bro! Aaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!

    This is sort of like Fan-Fiction - except that the subject and intent are very serious - and the speculation is intended to be as close to the mark as possible. This just seems like an appropriate forum on which to hash this stuff out. I don't create scenes in public. Not yet anyway! Unrelatedly - when I speak of Zionism and Teutonic Zionism - I am not referring to the Jewish and German people. I am not anti-Semetic in any way, shape, or form. Nor am I racist or sexist in any way, shape, or form - even though I occasionally make references to plumbing, and various pigmentation levels - which might be interpreted in a non-complementary manner. I do fully understand that I have the right to remain silent - and that everything I say can and will be used against me - and that my words could be used in nepharious ways - added thereto, or truncated! There seems to be 3 or 4 key factions at work in the world which seem to be mostly hidden - and I am just trying to figure out what the hell is really going on. I am not angry at the mainstream media - but just watching the major news sources will not provide many clues, missing links, or missing pieces of the big-picture puzzle. It's one thing to rant, rave, and ask provocative questions - but quite another thing to actually be responsible for changing a VERY entrenched system. It's one thing to conceptualize something - and quite another thing to actually put it into practice. And even the conceptualizing can be flawed, or completely wrong. Thinking that one knows - and knowing - are two very different things. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for Megalomaniacs Anonymous. Almost.

    Please get a DVD of the movie 'Contact', and watch it a couple of times - focusing on 00:35:00 to 01:35:00 - and especially noticing the very pretty and extremely intelligent White House 'lady in charge'. (I'm in love) You'll know who I'm talking about when you watch it. Who is her counterpart in the actual White House? She seems to be much more in charge than President Clinton - but of course Alex Collier said that 'Clinton is a janitor - and when the secret government says 'jump!' - he asks 'how high?'' Notice how alive she seems to be - compared with the dead-heads around her. Is she the prime representative of one of the factions of the secret government - or is she Lucifer herself? Please don't get mad at me. I'm just speculating regarding an unconventional Lucifer - who is a mixture of good and evil - and who is much smarter than most people. Notice the similarity between her and Anna ('V').

    I have a sinking feeling that my internet posting is a losing battle. Most people don't want to slog through the BS with me in search of the good stuff. I won't lie to people, or delve into the spooky and sensational realms of the netherworld - even though the powers that be that I cannot see sometimes make their presence known to me in the 'privacy' of my own home. The more I try to come up with real answers - the more I feel as though I am in the crosshairs of some really nasty entities. I'm glad I can't see them. So far - all I occasionally see are fleeting points of light which seem to appear when I am reading a speech (JFK) out loud, or posting something particularly pointed or controversial which exposes or confronts the darkside. Come-on! Let's go!

    Does this subject scare you? I have stated it before, and I will keep stating it, that theology is central to disclosure. Just don't believe everything the preachers and televangelists tell you! Study the Bible and theology books on your own - in combination with all of the fringe material. Try reading the Four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John - in the New King James Version of the Holy Bible - over and over and over again. Did Lucifer inspire or write most of the Bible? Are both Lucifer and the Bible a mixture of good and evil? If you believe that the Bible is the Word of the Creator God of the Universe - and that Preachers and Televangelists tell the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But the Truth - may I suggest that you are Massively Deluded and Living in Denial? On the other hand - If you are an Atheist who knows nothing of theology - and will not even consider the subject - and do not believe in any type of Intelligent Design - may I suggest that you are Massively Deluded and Living in Denial? I often think that the only people who really identify with what I'm talking about are Jesuits and Alphabet Agents - and those (human and otherwise) who live in Underground Bases Throughout the Solar System.

    I keep thinking of a goddess killing a god - stealing this god's technology - and ruling Earth - from the Garden of Eden to the present. There is an aspect of the goddess concept which I like - and there is an aspect which I despise and oppose. There is an aspect of Anna in 'V' which I really like - and there is an aspect which is hideously reprehensible. My soul and reptilian questions are very relevant to the goddess concept - which includes the mythology and reality of the goddess in ancient Egypt. I am running with the concept of Lucifer = Lilith = Hathor = Isis = Mary and others. In other words - a single key entity who reincarnates endlessly into human/reptile/hermaphroditic bodies - with total reincarnational recall and 100% use of the brain - and complete access to the Vatican library and other repositories of ancient wisdom and technology - which could include the complete contents of the Library of Alexandria (was there a duplicate created before the fire, or were the best contents removed before the fire?) - which might include antigravity craft, zero-point energy, atomic energy, nuclear weapons, tectonic weapons, supercomputers, genetic manipulation and hybridization, etc. What if all of this wisdom and technology was really stolen from us? I'm just going to keep pressing forward with this line of thinking to see where it leads. Obviously, the proof will probably be virtually non-existant, and circumstantial evidence may have to suffice until insiders really start fessing up in the confessional - and the skeletons start falling out onto the floor. Don't hold your breath.

    Usually the Whore of Babylon is equated with the Roman Catholic Church. I think this is incorrect. I think the Whore of Babylon may give orders to the Black Pope. I suspect it - but I can't prove it. I just can't get away from the thought of being in the Sistine Chapel, in the Vatican, with the Black Pope, the Top-Ranking Jesuits, the Whore of Babylon, and a Nine Foot Tall Drac (Head Pimp and Chairman of the Board) - listening to a completely open debate regarding forbidden knowledge. I'm thinking this would send me sobbing uncontrollably into the night. As interested and nice as we are - we are amateurs. I think an alphabet-type told Kerry something to that effect. There is a certain arrogance to this - but there is also a certain truth to it as well. My emotional state, and my thinking ability, are severely compromised. I know I'm not even close to hitting bedrock in my search for truth, solutions, security, and happiness. I am very concerned that the old paradigms and lies are going to be replaced by new paradigms and lies - which continue to bypass the real truths and answers. I'm seeing an ongoing infowar rather than a golden age of peace and happiness. I so hope that I'm wrong. Kali was/is the black Indian goddess who kills lots and lots of people. Sort of reminds me of Hathor on a bad day. I'm thinking that all of the different gods and goddesses may represent the various aspects of a single god or goddess - and, as you know, I am leaning toward the unified goddess hypothesis. But I can't prove it. If I could - I'd probably be history. I have heard that Lucifer is dead - but could this be an exaggeration? Would Lucifer prefer that people think that he or she is dead? I'm thinking that Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer are alive and well - and living in this solar system - and that they might lead the three primary competing factions in this neck of the woods. I'm not subscribing to a lot of the 'dozens of alien races from distant stars, inhabiting numerous dimensions and densities new age mumbo jumbo. I'm going to attempt to exhaust theories which place nearly everything 'alien' within this solar system - and which involve humans, reptiles (as in dinosaurs or sauroids), and human/reptile hybrids - all with the same type of soul (which can reincarnate into any of these varieties). I'm also toying with the idea that interdimensional reptilians and human souls are one and the same thing - and that what I just said in the last couple of sentences constitutes 99% of the so called 'alien presence'. (at least for the last 10,000 years, or so) I think that some very, very evil laboratories have existed in this solar system for thousands of years - and have produced many varieties of Frankenstein's Monster. The truth may be sharper than Occam's Razor - and it may cut both ways.

    I think that the Creator God of the Universe set things up in a most excellent way - and then things got screwed-up in a most horrible manner. I'm not sure who was/is responsible - but justice needs to be served - and law and order needs to be restored in this solar system. I believe that a Solar System Exorcism and a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System would remedy most of the most pressing ills we face. But what the hell do I know. I don't go out of the body. I don't do regression hypnosis. I don't have spirit guides. I don't even pray anymore. I don't trust the gods and goddesses. They let me down. I'm currently reading through the Four Gospels in the New King James Version of the Holy Bible (I recommend doing this regularly) - but I do not consider this to be the Word of the Creator God of the Universe. Could this be some of Lucifer's best work? Don't laugh at me, or hate me. Jesus said that he had many things to tell us - but that we couldn't bear them. Paul tried to do good, but did evil instead - and considered himself to be a wretched man. Was Paul really Josephus? Were they all the same individual? Were they front-men (or creations) of Mary? Was the Historical Jesus created by the Woman in Scarlet to be a Red Herring? Are the Teachings of Jesus mostly true and beneficial? Was Mary a continuation of a Whore of Babylon Apostolic Succession? If we do not consider all of the possibilities - even the far-fetched and seemingly ridiculous ones - are we really doing our job? If you sing a song or throw a football - the crowds cheer, and you get paid tens of millions of dollars. If you search for truth, and try to save the world - you get nothing but a swift kick where it counts. What's wrong with this picture? Is this world really worth saving? Perhaps the Georgia Guidestones have a point. How many people will read this? Ten maybe? How many demonic entities have been assigned the task of spying on me and reigning me in? Ten maybe? I just swore at them, and flipped them off! These b@stards live with me without paying rent!! There's a shapeshifting Jesuit living in my attic! The heart of darkness could've at least sent a sexy cyborg from another dimension to keep track of me! Hello Lucifer! Smile!
    magamud wrote:Lucifer is the afterthought of what springs from god. So in one sense the gospel itself could be taken to enslave man. This is why Jesus or god don't necessarily want to fix themselves and even if they did they get crucified for it. Lucifer captures the truth and twists it to serve him. The whore is a reference to using our gift of creation without knowing how to use it and abusing it. We are all born from a Whore. God let us find our own way, this is the essence of free will. He leaves signs or portends to show himself but not to the point where you must believe. This happens in various degrees. People see visions, power but im sure most of it could be explained away by a competent psychologist. I can assure you God is ever present and powerful. This is what jesus was saying with know what is in front of your face. This is the irony and the meaning of fallen or loss of memory. As Gods grace is all around you like the yolk in an egg...
    Born from a Whore?? Son of a Bitch!! No Wonder We Have Low Self-Esteem!! 'Free-Will' and 'Obedience to God' are 'Strange-Bedfellows'. I'm presently thinking of Gabriel as being Hard-Line Conservative -- Michael as being Hard-Line Progressive -- and Lucifer as being Hardline 'Whoever's Winning'. I might be completely wrong in my Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer speculation -- but I think that an Archangelicentric Approach to Life, the Universe, and Everything MIGHT be highly enlightening -- even if it turns out to be pure, unmitigated popycock. I'm truly sorry for pushing this thread as a study-guide -- but I truly think it might be more mind-expanding than we might think. I'm just so tired and exhausted -- that I can't seem to properly use my own study-guide -- and really, it probably will mostly benefit me -- because I have so much invested in it.
    magamud wrote:Man has low self esteem not god. Its in your position or transformation being born from a women and then not. You are born from god...
    A big point with mans low self esteem is the compensation to that, which is Eugenics. Again mans world.
    Is God humble or proud?? Should God be humble or proud?? Are Humans humble or proud?? Should Humans be humble or proud?? Perhaps BOTH God and Humans should be neither elated by applause -- nor dejected by censure. It seems as if BOTH self-exaltation and self-degradation are highly-problematic. Perhaps Dynamic-Equilibrium -- Dynamic-Neutrality -- and Humble-Homeostasis are ideals worth pursuing. Can Competition be BOTH constructive and destructive -- or is it always destructive?? Are Conquest and Self-Exaltation integral components of God-Ship?? Perhaps Comparative Models of God might be a productive topic for a doctoral disseration. Years ago, I suggested (somewhat provocatively) that the First-Commandment should be 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods'. I don't think I meant that there should not be someone in charge -- with ultimate responsibility -- but I think I was concerned with the possibility that many people's God is more like Satan than a Truly Good and Loving God. I continue to think that Humanity has possibly been serving False-Gods for Thousands of Years. Once again -- I am NOT opposed to a Proper Concept of God -- but I'm fearing the worst regarding the Theological Realities in This Solar System. I keep getting the impression that to properly understand theology -- one has to figuratively go to hell and deal with the devil -- and then ascend into the heavenlies. In other words -- one must consider ALL of the possibilities -- and be a conflicted mixture of faith and doubt -- who no one really likes or appreciates. Early on in Religulous, Bill Maher throws up a bar chart illustrating the number of people in America who are non-religious. That number is 16%, more than blacks, more than Jews, more than numerous other minority groups who seem to have no problem making themselves heard and getting Congress to do their bidding. Maher wonders aloud why non-religious people are so underground, and why they aren’t having an impact on the national discussion. His film is aimed squarely at that 16% of the country, and almost no one else. His goal, and he clearly has one, is to give those people the motivation they need to come out of the closet and do something… before it’s too late. Religulous begins with Bill Maher, standing alone in Israel at a place called Meggido; a worthless pile of rubble where many of the planet’s religions believe the end of the world will begin. From there, Maher pushes us into an intense, honest, and brutally funny discussion of blind belief, presenting the possibility that maybe we should all consider doubt instead. We follow him around the world, as he travels from place to place talking to religious people of different faiths on different continents. The surprising thing here is that even though Maher definitely has an agenda, his movie never skews into the realm of propaganda. It’s not propaganda, because Maher isn’t running out and finding weirdos to use in smear tactics against the devout. Typically anyone trying to make a case against God goes right to the pedophile priests and the suicide bombers, but Maher makes it a point to focus on normal, reasonably sane religious people. He’s not stacking the deck in his favor, because he doesn’t need to. He talks to truckers in a roadside chapel, he chats with random, middle-class tourists at a Christian-themed amusement park. He talks to religious shop owners, small town preachers, televangelists, Jews for Jesus, fundamentalist U.S. Senators, Vatican priests, religious scientists, secular Muslims, gay Muslims, people in America, Utah (come on, we all know it’s not really America), Europe, and even in Jerusalem. Though those fumbling for an excuse to discredit him may claim otherwise, these aren’t extremists or lunatics. These are for the most part sane, rational, even intelligent people who believe something which Maher believes is insane.
    magamud wrote:Humble and proud are the same thing. Two sides to the same coin. Those that are humble shall be exalted? This is the Janus to what I am speaking of. Its in the application, the timing, the note placement of finding the living word and living it. Should you be cold or hot? Are you neither? I have no doubt that our species can get it right using the basic tenets of Independence, and the Constitution and make it to Harvest time, fit focused and awaiting Gods Glory. I dont know why we are so dumbfounded here. Perhaps Lucifer has a grudge against this place. Jesus does say act like children when dealing with the Devil. Is this the irony the Devil will face at Judgement?

    Getting his ass kicked by a child? God exhibits his justice for the cosmos to see. I think so. It is in dealing with Man that maturity should reign...

    The one is the simplicity of the universe because you are one amongst the stars. And what should the One god say when man is sent to find his ways? There are many gods? That would be a lie.

    If Humility and Pride are defined as Self-Degradation and Self-Exaltation -- then BOTH are Self-Centered. Proper Self-Esteem arises from Responsibility and a Job Well Done -- with a Healthy Dose of Self-Forgetfulness -- and is NOT Pompous and Supercilious. Dr. Robert H. Schuller yelled at me in public when I pointed this out to him. That's when I quit attending the Crystal Cathedral. My exact words were "Self-Exaltation is Self-Centered. Self-Degradation is also Self-Centered. True Self-Esteem is Self-Forgetfulness (in this highest sense of the term) -- such as when an athelete is focused with total-concentration on the game -- and is NOT thinking about themselves." He didn't look at me while I spoke -- and went immediately to the next person in line -- so I walked away -- and when I was about 20 feet away -- Dr. Schuller almost yelled (in a high-pitched and mocking voice -- in front of at least 30 people) "That was Gooooooooood!!!" I responded calmly "I'll Keep Listening" -- and kept walking. At least he didn't hit me. Things might've turned out a lot different if that event hadn't occurred. I was a True-Believer up to that point (with some serious reservations). I still like the basic Robert H. Schuller and Crystal Cathedral Model -- but I would probably base a similar ministry on Positive Response Ability -- rather than Positive Thinking and Self Esteem. What Would Norman Vincent Peale Say??
    magamud wrote:There is a balance to self and selfless. As there are limits to liberty. Your freedom ends at my nose sort of stuff. The dynamics of the Pharisees is plentiful. They do serve themselves the best seats in temple. Look at me. Look at me. And there time is so valuable...
    The road is narrow -- and the ditches are deep. At this point, I fear that a political, philosophical, and theological meltdown is inevitable. I fear that the infowar is going to get really nasty. I fear that things are going to get a lot worse before they get better -- if they get better. I am trying to see things from God's point of view -- and Humanity's point of view -- but I frankly don't seem to identify with either. I wonder who I really am. I seem to be a misfit in this solar system -- sort of like I got dumped off here by those who were sick and tired of me in some other solar system. Now I need to sleep away my troubles. More fun tomorrow.
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 City_cover_900
    magamud wrote:God is coming in his glory and people are burning. But the time is shortened for our sake. He is coming quickly...
    One is taken and one is left...

    Last edited by orthodoxymoron on Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:27 pm

    magamud wrote:God is coming in his glory and people are burning. But the time is shortened for our sake. He is coming quickly...One is taken and one is left...[/youtube]
    I don't like the 'people are burning' part. Religion is so bloody and brutal -- but God is Love!! What's Wrong With This Picture??? The Old Testament, the Book of Revelation, the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the World Wars have a helluva lot in common. What's Wrong With This Picture?? If God didn't scare the hell out of people -- I wonder how many of them would go to church?? Humanity might be Exterminated by Divinity -- and a lot of religious people seem to think that would be a good thing!! What's Wrong With This Picture??
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Armageddon
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Red+Devil+Baby
    Killer-Asteroids Piloted by Devil-Babies!! What's Wrong With This Picture??
    magamud wrote:Is that a sperm and a ovum?

    magamud wrote: You are very obtuse Ortho...I do not think its easy, but the convenience of your dispositions lay in contradictions. Not that I want to move into your sandbox here. And what ground will you stand on? Its very convenient to stand on all grounds, but when the weight of the world falls on you where will you stand? This is the meaning of judgment. And how the players of the field use judgement when its in their favor. How indeed...
    I'd like to think that I would stand on the Principles and Concepts (the Spirit -- but not necessarily the Letter) found in the book Desire of Ages. I'd like to think that I'd do The Responsible Thing rather than Joseph Fletcher's version of The Loving Thing. I'd like to think that Responsible-Delegation to Responsible-Individuals (ten-thousand of them?) would occur in an Orderly-Manner (the United States of the Solar System?). I'd like to think that Law and Order would be First and Foremost (with a proper integration of Psychology, Ethics, Politics, Religion, Business, Law, Law-Enforcement, and the Military). But really -- who knows what the reality would be?! Perhaps Bad-People must be managed by Bad-Gods. Think long and hard about what I just said. I continue to suspect that EVERYONE'S Predicament might be worse than ANYONE thinks. I'd seriously prepare for the worst. I keep wondering if we might be dealing with Anna-Marcus v Erica-Chad -- as Two Archangels (with male and female aspects) in conflict with each other -- regarding the fate of Earth and Humanity?! What if Lucifer is a Non-Existent Straw-Man?? Lucifer: The Devil Who Never Was??!! I'm NOT saying this is the case -- but God, Jesus, Lucifer, Satan, et al -- might be VERY different than we think. This thing might be VERY complex and deceptive (on one level) -- but VERY simple and straightforward (on another level)!! I swear that when I met with the Ancient Egyptian Deity, I often felt as if I were dealing with Anna-Marcus. I often felt as if I were Erica-Chad. It was VERY strange and unsettling -- especially when discussing They Live at midnight, in a large, dark room -- and touching upon The Bottomless-Pit (while watching 'smoke' rise from water mixed with dry-ice)!! I'm being completely honest. What if we are dealing with Alien Dracs and Greys v Native Reptilians and Humans?? I have NO idea if this might be the case -- but it's something to think about -- and keep you awake at night!! (Read Reptilian Interview)

    Question: Have you a tail like normal reptiles?

    Answer: Do you see one? No, we have no visible tail. If you look at our skeleton, there is only a small rounded bone at the end of our spine behind the pelvis. This is a useless rudiment of the tail of our ancestors, but it is not visible from the outside. Oh, our embryos have tails during the first months of development, but these tails disappear before they are born. A tail makes only sense for a primitive species which tries to walk on two legs and must hold the balance with the tail, but our skeleton has changed during evolution and our spine is nearly the same shape as yours, so we need no tail to stay on two feet.

    Question: You said that you were born in a different way to us. Do you lay eggs?

    Answer: Yes, but not like your birds or primitive reptiles. Actually, the embryo grows in a protein liquid inside the mothers womb, but there is also an egg-shaped but very thin chalk hull around it, that fills the whole womb. The embryo inside this hull is completely autark from the mother's body and it has every substance it needs to develop inside this chalk hull. There is also a cord like your navel cord which is connected to a point hidden behind the backplates.

    Note by Stephanie Relfe: It is interesting that she says they have a cord like our umbilical cord, when everone 'knows' that all reptiles are born in an egg. This is probably true. We believe that draconians and reptilians are different species. (And there may be many different species of reptilians and draconians). The baby 'dragon' in a bottle which you can see towards the bottom of has an umbilical cord attached to the front of its body. This baby is not from her species.

    When the baby is going to be born, the whole egg is pressed through the vagina covered in a slimy protein substance and the baby came out of this soft egg after some minutes. These two horns on our middle fingers were instinctively used from babies to break through the chalk hull to take their first breath. Our young are not so large as your babies when they were born, they are between 30 and 35 of your centimetres tall, the egg is around 40 centimetres tall (this is because our vagina is smaller then a human one) but we grow to a normal size of 1,60 to 1,80 metres.

    Notice who the "US" and "THEM" are depicted as being in the image shown below!! Again, I'd frankly be prepared for just about anything!! Don't EVER think that you've got this thing all figured-out. I KNOW that I do NOT have this madness all figured-out!! I continue to wonder about the Secret-Agent-Type who discussed the latest "V" Series with me (before it aired) -- Thanked Me in a Very Animated and Formal Manner (for I know not what) -- and then Spoke in a Very Hostile Manner About the "BITCHES". It was VERY strange. I saw them a few months later -- and they seemed to be very quiet and unhappy. I didn't ask any questions. Through this whole thing -- I have attempted to be 'NEUTRAL' -- and this was long before I heard Townsend (Martin Sheen) tell Jesse Marcel to be 'NEUTRAL' when dealing with the subjects of Aliens and UFOs (in Roswell @ 01:10:00 ). What if Titan will be a Workers-Purgatory Prison-Planet?? What if Earth will be Heaven on Earth?? What if NO Hell will exist in this Solar System?? ("Hell?? NO!! Not in My Solar System!!") What if a Proper Solar System Administrator should exhibit the Best Aspects of Anna -- with None of the Worst Characteristics?? I continue to desire a constructive relationship with the entire universe. A State of Harmony should exist (however strained this might be) -- rather than Star Wars in Perpetuity. Think long and hard about what I just said. But once again -- I have NO idea what the True State of Affairs Are Throughout the Universe. The Reality Would be Determinitive Relative to Policy and Practice. In the Near-Term I Suspect That Things Will Go to Hell -- No Matter Who Rules and No Matter What We Do. In the Long-Term I Have NO Idea.

    Remember in that old episode of Dr. Who -- The Five Doctors -- When the High-Council gives Dr. Who Supreme Authority over 'Something or Other' he immediately turns the authority over to the Queen of Gallifrey (or whoever she was) and goes on yet another mission to save 'Something or Other' or 'Someone or Other'. What if the New-Dude made a few reforms -- and basically retained most of the Old-Guard?? Continuity and Evolutionary-Change are Somewhat Important (are they not?) -- but what the hell do I know?? Taking the Next Best Steps seems to be much more important than Executing the Old-Guard. It seems to me, that at the highest levels of governance, things can go very wrong -- very easily and very quickly. There might be no clean and neat way to run a solar system -- especially one which is inhabited by fickle, dissatisfied, disloyal, and disobedient people. Again, I have NO idea what's really going on -- and this thread is simply a gigantic mind-game to model some very strange theories. Theories of Satanic-Origin Originating from Howell Mountain?? What Would George McCready Price Say?? All I know is that my plans are to continue doing what I'm doing -- no matter what happens -- no matter who I really am -- no matter what role I play -- and no matter where I live. Expect more of the same -- only different -- in perpetuity. Namaste -- Find Your Own Way -- Be Nice -- and Make Good Choices.


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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:33 pm

    I am becoming more and more frightened by my pseudointellectual-quest. I don't even want to think about how scared I'd be if I were seriously researching the insanity -- and I truly mean what I just said. I know many direct paths to the 'truth' -- yet I choose to travel a much less revealing path. Throughout my life -- I have actually worked very hard to NOT know about a lot of the creepy stuff. I'm really ready to quit permanently. I've really just been talking to myself and wasting my time for much too long. People won't seriously deal with this subject until the New World Order really kicks in with a vengeance - but then they will probably just play the blame game without fixing anything. Talking to people in a calm and rational manner, with the best of intentions, is a lost cause. Edward Bernays and Sigmund Freud were right. (Even though I dislike both of them) Seeking Fame, Fortune, Power, and Pleasure really makes the world go 'round - which is why 'It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World'. If we save the world - the next generation probably won't appreciate it - and they'll just get into more messes. The corrupt will continue to rule the stupid. The human race will continue to live by the Golden Rule (He or She Who Has the Gold - RULES!). Perhaps I should focus upon the RESPONSIBLE PURSUIT OF FAME, FORTUNE, POWER, AND PLEASURE - WHERE RESPONSIBILITY IS REWARDED AND IRRESPONSIBILITY IS PUNISHED. I am more disgusted with the human race than I can even begin to describe. I'm not sure whether I am more disgusted by the corrupt - or by the stupid. I'm almost ready to go back to sleep, go back to church, watch the mainstream media, believe every word, get chipped, get vaccinated, and drink my kool-aid like a good zombie.

    In the Pre-Human Universe, was the archangelic pecking-order 1. Michael? 2. Gabriel? 3. Lucifer? After the Creation of the Human-Being, was the archangelic pecking-order 1. Gabriel? 2. Lucifer? 3. Michael? Has this hypothetical pecking-order changed since the hypothetical rebellion and overthrow of Michael?? Are all archangels created equal?? Are all archangels created?? Is one or more archangel a Creator-God?? What if Earth-Humanity really are the bad-guys and bad-gals?? What if certain Reptilians are Gods -- and certain Reptilians are Devils?? What is the True and Pure Religion and Government of Archangel Michael?? At this point, does Michael even know?? I am BIG on the Law of God -- but does Deuteronomy properly outline the Law of God in Context?? Is this Law of the Lord really perfect?? Read Genesis and Revelation. Did God Change?? How does Matthew compare with Genesis and Revelation?? I don't think we're being told the WHOLE STORY. If we were -- the Bible might make a helluva lot more sense than it seems to presently. Again, this thing might be much more complex and confusing than even the insiders think. In a sense, I'm really probably mostly talking to insiders in this thread -- but they probably have just assigned a couple of NSA Intern-Jesuits to keep track of me!! I continue to encounter 'real-life' evidence that some people know a helluva lot more about me than they should. You guys and gals are SO obvious!! Those 'Official-Briefings' must make you feel SO important!! Just wait until you find out who's REALLY behind those 'Secret-Agent Meetings'!! A lot of you are laughing and mocking now -- but you won't be later -- and I don't think you'll have long to wait!! It won't be long now. What do YOU think?? Do you think?? Come-On!! THINK!!!

    What if NOBODY knows what to do(?) -- the good-guys -- the bad-guys -- the ETs -- the Gods -- the Archangels -- et al???!!! Who will accept responsibility??? Lmao That's a good one!! Lmfao Huh??!! Lolerz What if a Changing of the Guard will be timed to coincide with the Worst Crisis in World History??? What if the Current PTB are desperately looking for a Fall-Guy or Fall-Gal?? What if the PTB just wanna bail-out of this Flaming-Plane(t)?? Would YOU wish to take the reigns right now??? What if the PTB are more sick of the bullshit than we are??? What if there's no heaven or hell to go to when we die -- just reincarnation back into the madness?? Even if we created Heaven on Earth -- would anyone really appreciate it?? Would everyone try to rule paradise -- and turn it right back into purgatory and/or hell?? People don't want a police-state -- but what if we are fundamentally a bunch of outlaws?? As I keep saying -- I think I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing -- no matter how bad (or good) things get. I think things have been kept from getting too bad -- with lots and lots of lies, smoke, and mirrors -- but now people are being faced with a brutal gang of facts -- with the advent of the internet. I tend to think that the PTB didn't really see this coming -- and now a lot of them are getting caught with their pants down. But I'm skeptical that a new-crew will be able to make everything better. Thinking about a United States of the Solar System scares the hell out of me 24/7. Even though it might be intended as a Road to Utopia -- I fear that it might still result in Hell on Earth -- due in no small part to infiltration and subversion by the same nefarious humans and other-than-humans who have been screwing things up for thousands of years. Some things never change -- which is why I've decided to keep modeling paradise -- while know full-well that purgatory is the preferred business and governance model of the really powerful PTB from who-knows-where?!

    Could someone out there please look at this link to my threads - in light of this particular thread on Archangels and Governance - and do a thorough analysis - positive or negative? I included them here because they are really an ongoing research project. I'm trying to change myself - and I am trying to encourage others to think in unconventional yet productive ways. This is a unique approach - which may make it of some value to someone somewhere or somewhen. These threads are an experiment based mostly on videos. I'm not particularly bright or noteworthy...but the videos which I have viewed...especially when viewed as a group...are earth shattering to me. The threads are a healthy mixture of problems and solutions. If you have the time...which is doubtful...please look at all of these threads...and look for commonalities. There is a bit of a theological slant...but certainly not an orthodox or Bible thumping slant. Prepare to be get be enlightened...and to experience the Eureka Phenomenon!

    I would love to read a twenty page critique of all of these threads - written by a Jesuit or a CIA analyst - complete with a psychological evaluation, etc. I'm very serious. I don't need to be right. I just don't feel as though anyone has seriously considered these threads. They were designed to make people think - and then to arrive at their own conclusions - but I don't think that happened at all. I honestly feel as though Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer, and a couple of alphabet agents and Jesuits are the only ones who looked at this material with a penetrating gaze. Even if I was very close to the mark - I wasn't a threat (I didn't try to be) - because no one seemed to pay much attention to any of it. I had hoped for some very detailed and passionate debating. The 'Amen Ra' thread seemed to generate the most interest (13,200 views and counting) - but I have no idea what the reactions were and are now that AV1 is closed to posting. I feel very empty and lost in all of this. I feel as though I wasted my time and energy - accomplishing nothing. I am making a renewed call for help - into the vast regions of space and cyberspace - to seriously look at this material as a group - and tell me what you think - positive or negative. Where are the scholars? Is there any intelligent life out there that isn't so high and mighty that they can't take a few hours to make a proper evaluation of all of this? Come down out of your ivory tower - I dare you! The water's warm. Come-on in! I'm waiting - but I'm not holding my breath. You important people with your degrees and badges have more important things to do - don't you? Like getting us into even more trouble than we're already in? As far as I can tell - top people with top clearances have gotten us into one helluva lot of trouble - and that these same top people with top clearances are trying to save the world. I'm sorry - but I have completely lost confidence in the top people with top clearances. Is this inaccurate or unfair? Prove me wrong. Don't take what I just said too seriously. I don't know what top people really have to deal with. I'm just trying to get their attention. Is it possible to be a truly free-thinking top person? I'm just trying to spice-up my insignificant and ineffective life - and take my dissatisfaction with life out on top-people with top-clearances.

    Consider this debate between Dr. Walter Martin and Father Mitchell Pacwa (Jesuit) regarding the Roman Catholic view of Mary. This has relevance to this thread because of my suggestion that there may be some substance to Lucifer = Lilith = Hathor = Isis = Mary and that the current manifestion of this goddess hypothesis could be similar to that which is represented by Anna in the 'V' series. Once again - I'm not trying to be mean - I'm just trying to understand. The Roman Catholic treatment of Mary may be based upon something more than a fable devised by corrupt men in the Vatican. There may, in fact, be an actual Mary figure, who rules the church - and thus the world. I'm not an insider - and I don't know insiders - so I don't really know. I don't shout this sort of thing from the mountain-tops. I just whisper and mumble on the internet. Please watch the following video from start to finish - and relate it to what I have written in this thread. Warning: this is very disturbing.

    Once again - I just want to wish Satan, Lucifer, Gods, Goddesses, Angels, Demons, Archangels, Illuminati, Megalomaniacs, Reptilians, Greys, Top People with Top Clearances, et al - a terrific day. I really think we can work this thing out - without enslavement, extermination, Star Wars, or Masters of the Universe. Imagine 10,000 very competent humans engaging in Global and Solar System Governance - with advisors which might include all of the above. The absolute power corrupting thing seems to be the big problem. When I ask questions - especially regarding fringe topics which are especially controversial - I'm really asking 'Am I sane?' It drives me crazy when answers are not forthcoming. I really just want something in place which facilitates unity and freedom for all races - and which is based upon truth rather than lies. I'm only poking and prodding because things are so screwed-up, and because they seem to have been screwed-up for thousands of years. I fear that things will continue to be screwed-up for thousands of years - if we even survive.

    Unrelatedly, I sat down today, and read from my Holy Bible, Book of Common Prayer, and Church Hymnal. Last night, I spoke with some friends who attend a church which I used to attend. They invited me to church. How should I properly deal with this, in light of all the blasphemous postings I've made? Should I continue to speculate regarding the possible Luciferian origins of theology, mythology, architecture, sacred music, and sacred texts? Or should I just shut up? Have I more than made my point? Do I need to learn to know when to stop? Have I worn out my welcome? Even if I'm right - or even partially right - is this subject too hot to handle? Is it a threat to national security? Is all of the following ultimately from the Pen of Lucifer? Are all of us actors on a stage? Is Lucifer the script-writer? Has this been going on for a long, long time? Could this entire world be one big Colosseum Event - a Galactic Theater of the Universe? Is it time for WE THE PEOPLE OF EARTH to close the curtain - and START WRITING OUR OWN SCRIPT? Just wondering.

    ARCHANGELS + HYBRIDIZATION + REINCARNATION = GODS AND GODDESSES?? I just listen to as many people as possible - and TRY to connect the dots. I'm also trying to think in terms of a male version of Anna - who is not creepy, corrupt, or cruel - with all of the positives, and none of the negatives. Consider the following carefully:

















































    ( BIBLE -> BY-BAL -> BY BA'AL( ENKI))
    ( QURAN -> QUR-AN / ANU )


    The bottom-line of all of this madness is to 1. Determine who the major players have been in this solar system going back thousands of years. 2. Determine the governmental systems in this solar system going back thousands of years. 3. Determine the true history of the human race and this solar system. 4. To establish the best possible governmental system in this solar system - with the best long-term chances of facilitating responsible freedom. It seems that all has not been well in this solar system for many thousands of years. It seems that there have been systematic and purposeful efforts to hide and misrepresent the truth. The historical carnage is horrifying. The current corruption is unfathomable and reprehensible. The supernatural phenomenon appears to be very creepy and deceptive. It seems that the human race is in huge trouble - yet the extent and nature of this trouble seems to be carefully hidden. The current explosion of forbidden knowledge provides humanity with both the opportunity to learn the truth, and fix the problems. Unfortunately, if humanity can't handle the truth - we could face enslavement and extermination of a most horrifying nature. The window of opportunity may be very small and fleeting. I have tried to irreverently deal with the subject of Lucifer - so as to possibly break the ice - and get Lucifer (or equivalent) to come out of the closet - so to speak - and reason with us in a calm and rational manner. I have suggested retirement (rather than retribution, bottomless pits, torment and annilhilation). I seek the restoration of Lucifer (or equivalent) to a 'pre-fall' state of character, ethics, and spirituality. Obviously, I don't know if this is possible or even desireable (if I knew the complete story). As with almost every subject I have addressed in the last couple of years on the internet - I AM FLYING BLIND. I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON. This thread has been yet another feeble attempt to find out.

    The Origin of Evil - from 'The Great Controversy' by Ellen White
    TO many minds the origin of sin and the reason for its existence are a source of great perplexity. They see the work of evil, with its terrible results of woe and desolation, and they question how all this can exist under the sovereignty of One who is infinite in wisdom, in power, and in love. Here is a mystery of which they find no explanation. And in their uncertainty and doubt they are blinded to truths plainly revealed in God's word and essential to salvation. There are those who, in their inquiries concerning the existence of sin, endeavor to search into that which God has never revealed; hence they find no solution of their difficulties; and such as are actuated by a disposition to doubt and cavil seize upon this as an excuse for rejecting the words of Holy Writ. Others, however, fail of a satisfactory understanding of the great problem of evil, from the fact that tradition and misinterpretation have obscured the teaching of the Bible concerning the character of God, the nature of His government, and the principles of His dealing with sin.

    It is impossible to explain the origin of sin so as to give a reason for its existence. Yet enough may be understood concerning both the origin and the final disposition of sin to make fully manifest the justice and benevolence of God in all His dealings with evil. Nothing is more plainly taught in Scripture than that God was in no wise responsible for the entrance of sin; that there was no arbitrary withdrawal of divine grace, no deficiency in the divine government, that gave occasion for the uprising of rebellion. Sin is an intruder, for whose presence no reason can be given. It is mysterious, unaccountable; to excuse it is to defend it. Could excuse for it be found, or cause be shown for its existence, it would cease to be sin. Our only definition of sin is that given in the word of God; it is "the transgression of the law;" it is the outworking of a principle at war with the great law of love which is the foundation of the divine government.

    Before the entrance of evil there was peace and joy throughout the universe. All was in perfect harmony with the Creator's will. Love for God was supreme, love for one another impartial. Christ the Word, the Only Begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,--one in nature, in character, and in purpose,--the only being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ the Father wrought in the creation of all heavenly beings. "By Him were all things created, that are in heaven, . . . whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers" (Colossians 1:16); and to Christ, equally with the Father, all heaven gave allegiance.

    The law of love being the foundation of the government of God, the happiness of all created beings depended upon their perfect accord with its great principles of righteousness. God desires from all His creatures the service of love--homage that springs from an intelligent appreciation of His character. He takes no pleasure in a forced allegiance, and to all He grants freedom of will, that they may render Him voluntary service.

    But there was one that chose to pervert this freedom. Sin originated with him who, next to Christ, had been most honored of God and who stood highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven. Before his fall, Lucifer was first of the covering cherubs, holy and undefiled. "Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering. . . .Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." Ezekiel 28:12-15.

    Lucifer might have remained in favor with God, beloved and honored by all the angelic host, exercising his noble powers to bless others and to glorify his Maker. But, says the prophet, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness." Verse 17. Little by little, Lucifer came to indulge a desire for self-exaltation. "Thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God." "Thou hast said, . . . I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation....I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High." Verse 6; Isaiah 14:13, 14. Instead of seeking to make God supreme in the affections and allegiance of His creatures, it was Lucifer's endeavor to win their service and homage to himself. And coveting the honor which the infinite Father had bestowed upon His Son, this prince of angels aspired to power which it was the prerogative of Christ alone to wield.

    All heaven had rejoiced to reflect the Creator's glory and to show forth His praise. And while God was thus honored, all had been peace and gladness. But a note of discord now marred the celestial harmonies. The service and exaltation of self, contrary to the Creator's plan, awakened forebodings of evil in minds to whom God's glory was supreme. The heavenly councils pleaded with Lucifer. The Son of God presented before him the greatness, the goodness, and the justice of the Creator, and the sacred, unchanging nature of His law. God Himself had established the order of heaven; and in departing from it, Lucifer would dishonor his Maker, and bring ruin upon himself. But the warning, given in infinite love and mercy, only aroused a spirit of resistance. Lucifer allowed jealousy of Christ to prevail, and he became the more determined.

    Pride in his own glory nourished the desire for supremacy. The high honors conferred upon Lucifer were not appreciated as the gift of God and called forth no gratitude to the Creator. He gloried in his brightness and exaltation, and aspired to be equal with God. He was beloved and reverenced by the heavenly host. Angels delighted to execute his commands, and he was clothed with wisdom and glory above them all. Yet the Son of God was the acknowledged Sovereign of heaven, one in power and authority with the Father. In all the councils of God, Christ was a participant, while Lucifer was not permitted thus to enter into the divine purposes. "Why," questioned this mighty angel, "should Christ have the supremacy? Why is He thus honored above Lucifer?"

    Leaving his place in the immediate presence of God, Lucifer went forth to diffuse the spirit of discontent among the angels. Working with mysterious secrecy, and for a time concealing his real purpose under an appearance of reverence for God, he endeavored to excite dissatisfaction concerning the laws that governed heavenly beings, intimating that they imposed an unnecessary restraint. Since their natures were holy, he urged that the angels should obey the dictates of their own will. He sought to create sympathy for himself by representing that God had dealt unjustly with him in bestowing supreme honor upon Christ. He claimed that in aspiring to greater power and honor he was not aiming at self-exaltation, but was seeking to secure liberty for all the inhabitants of heaven, that by this means they might attain to a higher state of existence.

    God in His great mercy bore long with Lucifer. He was not immediately degraded from his exalted station when he first indulged the spirit of discontent, nor even when he began to present his false claims before the loyal angels. Long was he retained in heaven. Again and again he was offered pardon on condition of repentance and submission. Such efforts as only infinite love and wisdom could devise were made to convince him of his error. The spirit of discontent had never before been known in heaven. Lucifer himself did not at first see whither he was drifting; he did not understand the real nature of his feelings. But as his dissatisfaction was proved to be without cause, Lucifer was convinced that he was in the wrong, that the divine claims were just, and that he ought to acknowledge them as such before all heaven. Had he done this, he might have saved himself and many angels. He had not at this time fully cast off his allegiance to God. Though he had forsaken his position as covering cherub, yet if he had been willing to return to God, acknowledging the Creator's wisdom, and satisfied to fill the place appointed him in God's great plan, he would have been reinstated in his office. But pride forbade him to submit. He persistently defended his own course, maintained that he had no need of repentance, and fully committed himself, in the great controversy, against his Maker.

    All the powers of his master mind were now bent to the work of deception, to secure the sympathy of the angels that had been under his command. Even the fact that Christ had warned and counseled him was perverted to serve his traitorous designs. To those whose loving trust bound them most closely to him, Satan had represented that he was wrongly judged, that his position was not respected, and that his liberty was to be abridged. From misrepresentation of the words of Christ he passed to prevarication and direct falsehood, accusing the Son of God of a design to humiliate him before the inhabitants of heaven. He sought also to make a false issue between himself and the loyal angels. All whom he could not subvert and bring fully to his side he accused of indifference to the interests of heavenly beings. The very work which he himself was doing he charged upon those who remained true to God. And to sustain his charge of God's injustice toward him, he resorted to misrepresentation of the words and acts of the Creator. It was his policy to perplex the angels with subtle arguments concerning the purposes of God. Everything that was simple he shrouded in mystery, and by artful perversion cast doubt upon the plainest statements of Jehovah. His high position, in such close connection with the divine administration, gave greater force to his representations, and many were induced to unite with him in rebellion against Heaven's authority.

    God in His wisdom permitted Satan to carry forward his work, until the spirit of disaffection ripened into active revolt. It was necessary for his plans to be fully developed, that their true nature and tendency might be seen by all. Lucifer, as the anointed cherub, had been highly exalted; he was greatly loved by the heavenly beings, and his influence over them was strong. God's government included not only the inhabitants of heaven, but of all the worlds that He had created; and Satan thought that if he could carry the angels of heaven with him in rebellion, he could carry also the other worlds. He had artfully presented his side of the question, employing sophistry and fraud to secure his objects. His power to deceive was very great, and by disguising himself in a cloak of falsehood he had gained an advantage. Even the loyal angels could not fully discern his character or see to what his work was leading.

    Satan had been so highly honored, and all his acts were so clothed with mystery, that it was difficult to disclose to the angels the true nature of his work. Until fully developed, sin would not appear the evil thing it was. Heretofore it had had no place in the universe of God, and holy beings had no conception of its nature and malignity. They could not discern the terrible consequences that would result from setting aside the divine law. Satan had, at first, concealed his work under a specious profession of loyalty to God. He claimed to be seeking to promote the honor of God, the stability of His government, and the good of all the inhabitants of heaven. While instilling discontent into the minds of the angels under him, he had artfully made it appear that he was seeking to remove dissatisfaction. When he urged that changes be made in the order and laws of God's government, it was under the pretense that these were necessary in order to preserve harmony in heaven.

    In His dealing with sin, God could employ only righteousness and truth. Satan could use what God could not-- flattery and deceit. He had sought to falsify the word of God and had misrepresented His plan of government before the angels, claiming that God was not just in laying laws and rules upon the inhabitants of heaven; that in requiring submission and obedience from His creatures, He was seeking merely the exaltation of Himself. Therefore it must be demonstrated before the inhabitants of heaven, as well as of all the worlds, that God's government was just, His law perfect. Satan had made it appear that he himself was seeking to promote the good of the universe. The true character of the usurper, and his real object, must be understood by all. He must have time to manifest himself by his wicked works.

    The discord which his own course had caused in heaven, Satan charged upon the law and government of God. All evil he declared to be the result of the divine administration. He claimed that it was his own object to improve upon the statutes of Jehovah. Therefore it was necessary that he should demonstrate the nature of his claims, and show the working out of his proposed changes in the divine law. His own work must condemn him. Satan had claimed from the first that he was not in rebellion. The whole universe must see the deceiver unmasked.

    Even when it was decided that he could no longer remain in heaven, Infinite Wisdom did not destroy Satan. Since the service of love can alone be acceptable to God, the allegiance of His creatures must rest upon a conviction of His justice and benevolence. The inhabitants of heaven and of other worlds, being unprepared to comprehend the nature or consequences of sin, could not then have seen the justice and mercy of God in the destruction of Satan. Had he been immediately blotted from existence, they would have served God from fear rather than from love. The influence of the deceiver would not have been fully destroyed, nor would the spirit of rebellion have been utterly eradicated. Evil must be permitted to come to maturity. For the good of the entire universe through ceaseless ages Satan must more fully develop his principles, that his charges against the divine government might be seen in their true light by all created beings, that the justice and mercy of God and the immutability of His law might forever be placed beyond all question.

    Satan's rebellion was to be a lesson to the universe through all coming ages, a perpetual testimony to the nature and terrible results of sin. The working out of Satan's rule, its effects upon both men and angels, would show what must be the fruit of setting aside the divine authority. It would testify that with the existence of God's government and His law is bound up the well-being of all the creatures He has made. Thus the history of this terrible experiment of rebellion was to be perpetual safeguard to all holy intelligences, to prevent them from being deceived as to the nature of transgression, to save them from committing sin and suffering its punishments.

    To the very close of the controversy in heaven the great usurper continued to justify himself. When it was announced that with all his sympathizers he must be expelled from the abodes of bliss, then the rebel leader boldly avowed his contempt for the Creator's law. He reiterated his claim that angels needed no control, but should be left to follow their own will, which would ever guide them right. He denounced the divine statutes as a restriction of their liberty and declared that it was his purpose to secure the abolition of law; that, freed from this restraint, the hosts of heaven might enter upon a more exalted, more glorious state of existence.

    With one accord, Satan and his host threw the blame of their rebellion wholly upon Christ, declaring that if they had not been reproved, they would never have rebelled. Thus stubborn and defiant in their disloyalty, seeking vainly to overthrow the government of God, yet blasphemously claiming to be themselves the innocent victims of oppressive power, the archrebel and all his sympathizers were at last banished from heaven.

    The same spirit that prompted rebellion in heaven still inspires rebellion on earth. Satan has continued with men the same policy which he pursued with the angels. His spirit now reigns in the children of disobedience. Like him they seek to break down the restraints of the law of God and promise men liberty through transgression of its precepts. Reproof of sin still arouses the spirit of hatred and resistance. When God's messages of warning are brought home to the conscience, Satan leads men to justify themselves and to seek the sympathy of others in their course of sin. Instead of correcting their errors, they excite indignation against the reprover, as if he were the sole cause of difficulty. From the days of righteous Abel to our own time such is the spirit which has been displayed toward those who dare to condemn sin.

    By the same misrepresentation of the character of God as he had practiced in heaven, causing Him to be regarded as severe and tyrannical, Satan induced man to sin. And having succeeded thus far, he declared that God's unjust restrictions had led to man's fall, as they had led to his own rebellion.

    But the Eternal One Himself proclaims His character: "The Lord God, merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty." Exodus 34:6, 7.

    In the banishment of Satan from heaven, God declared His justice and maintained the honor of His throne. But when man had sinned through yielding to the deceptions of this apostate spirit, God gave an evidence of His love by yielding up His only-begotten Son to die for the fallen race. In the atonement the character of God is revealed. The mighty argument of the cross demonstrates to the whole universe that the course of sin which Lucifer had chosen was in no wise chargeable upon the government of God.

    In the contest between Christ and Satan, during the Saviour's earthly ministry, the character of the great deceiver was unmasked. Nothing could so effectually have uprooted Satan from the affections of the heavenly angels and the whole loyal universe as did his cruel warfare upon the world's Redeemer. The daring blasphemy of his demand that Christ should pay him homage, his presumptuous boldness in bearing Him to the mountain summit and the pinnacle of the temple, the malicious intent betrayed in urging Him to cast Himself down from the dizzy height, the unsleeping malice that hunted Him from place to place, inspiring the hearts of priests and people to reject His love, and at the last to cry, "Crucify Him! crucify Him!--all this excited the amazement and indignation of the universe.

    It was Satan that prompted the world's rejection of Christ. The prince of evil exerted all his power and cunning to destroy Jesus; for he saw that the Saviour's mercy and love, His compassion and pitying tenderness, were representing to the world the character of God. Satan contested every claim put forth by the Son of God and employed men as his agents to fill the Saviour's life with suffering and sorrow. The sophistry and falsehood by which he had sought to hinder the work of Jesus, the hatred manifested through the children of disobedience, his cruel accusations against Him whose life was one of unexampled goodness, all sprang from deep-seated revenge. The pent-up fires of envy and malice, hatred and revenge, burst forth on Calvary against the Son of God, while all heaven gazed upon the scene in silent horror.

    When the great sacrifice had been consummated, Christ ascended on high, refusing the adoration of angels until He had presented the request: "I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am." John 17:24. Then with inexpressible love and power came forth the answer from the Father's throne: "Let all the angels of God worship Him." Hebrews 1:6. Not a stain rested upon Jesus. His humiliation ended, His sacrifice completed, there was given unto Him a name that is above every name.

    Now the guilt of Satan stood forth without excuse. He had revealed his true character as a liar and a murderer. It was seen that the very same spirit with which he ruled the children of men, who were under his power, he would have manifested had he been permitted to control the inhabitants of heaven. He had claimed that the transgression of God's law would bring liberty and exaltation; but it was seen to result in bondage and degradation.

    Satan's lying charges against the divine character and government appeared in their true light. He had accused God of seeking merely the exaltation of Himself in requiring submission and obedience from His creatures, and had declared that, while the Creator exacted self-denial from all others, He Himself practiced no self-denial and made no sacrifice. Now it was seen that for the salvation of a fallen and sinful race, the Ruler of the universe had made the greatest sacrifice which love could make; for "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself." 2 Corinthians 5:19. It was seen, also, that while Lucifer had opened the door for the entrance of sin by his desire for honor and supremacy, Christ had, in order to destroy sin, humbled Himself and become obedient unto death.

    God had manifested His abhorrence of the principles of rebellion. All heaven saw His justice revealed, both in the condemnation of Satan and in the redemption of man. Lucifer had declared that if the law of God was changeless, and its penalty could not be remitted, every transgressor must be forever debarred from the Creator's favor. He had claimed that the sinful race were placed beyond redemption and were therefore his rightful prey. But the death of Christ was an argument in man's behalf that could not be overthrown. The penalty of the law fell upon Him who was equal with God, and man was free to accept the righteousness of Christ and by a life of penitence and humiliation to triumph, as the Son of God had triumphed, over the power of Satan. Thus God is just and yet the justifier of all who believe in Jesus.

    But it was not merely to accomplish the redemption of man that Christ came to the earth to suffer and to die. He came to "magnify the law" and to "make it honorable." Not alone that the inhabitants of this world might regard the law as it should be regarded; but it was to demonstrate to all the worlds of the universe that God's law is unchangeable. Could its claims have been set aside, then the Son of God need not have yielded up His life to atone for its transgression. The death of Christ proves it immutable. And the sacrifice to which infinite love impelled the Father and the Son, that sinners might be redeemed, demonstrates to all the universe--what nothing less than this plan of atonement could have sufficed to do--that justice and mercy are the foundation of the law and government of God.

    In the final execution of the judgment it will be seen that no cause for sin exists. When the Judge of all the earth shall demand of Satan, "Why hast thou rebelled against Me, and robbed Me of the subjects of My kingdom?" the originator of evil can render no excuse. Every mouth will be stopped, and all the hosts of rebellion will be speechless.

    The cross of Calvary, while it declares the law immutable, proclaims to the universe that the wages of sin is death. In the Saviour's expiring cry, "It is finished," the death knell of Satan was rung. The great controversy which had been so long in progress was then decided, and the final eradication of evil was made certain. The Son of God passed through the portals of the tomb, that "through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil." Hebrews 2:14. Lucifer's desire for self-exaltation had led him to say: "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: . . . I will be like the Most High." God declares: "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth, . . . and never shalt thou be any more." Isaiah 14:13, 14; Ezekiel 28:18, 19. When "the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven;. . . .all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1.

    The whole universe will have become witnesses to the nature and results of sin. And its utter extermination, which in the beginning would have brought fear to angels and dishonor to God, will now vindicate His love and establish His honor before the universe of beings who delight to do His will, and in whose heart is His law. Never will evil again be manifest. Says the word of God: "Affliction shall not rise up the second time." Nahum 1:9. The law of God, which Satan has reproached as the yoke of bondage, will be honored as the law of liberty. A tested and proved creation will never again be turned from allegiance to Him whose character has been fully manifested before them as fathomless love and infinite wisdom.


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    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Empty Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:36 pm

    Perhaps one should seek the truth for themselves -- and then use this truth to maximize the bottom-line -- rather than trying to educate the general-public -- especially when they do not wish to be educated. I agree with Jesus about the love of money being the root of all evil -- yet the bottom-line always seems to be the bottom-line -- as much as I HATE to admit it. Perhaps people HAVE to learn things the HARD-WAY. Soon, I will start another thread (based on this one) with the reverse-title The United States of the Solar System and Archangelic Queens of Heaven. It will begin where I started my recent editing and expansion project. I'm simply running out of posting room on this thread. I'll just keep editing, condensing, commenting, and adding images -- probably for the rest of my life -- as fatalistic as that sounds. If I somehow became a Deep Underground Insider -- I'd probably just keep doing the same thing -- on a Cray Supercomputer. I'd visit a few cool locations, meet some interesting people and other-than-people, sit-in on some interesting lectures, read some interesting 'eyes-only' documents -- but I'd mostly keep doing exactly what I'm doing right now. It might be better -- or it might be worse. I suspect that all hell is going to break-loose sometime soon -- so I doubt that things will be fun for anyone -- anywhere. I suspect that there's really no place to hide. Anyway, here is a continuation of my Multidisciplinary Study of Life, the Universe, and Everything. Consider Informal Logic.

    Informal Logic (First published Mon Nov 25, 1996; substantive revision Mon Nov 28, 2011)

    Informal logic is an attempt to develop a logic that can assess and analyze the arguments that occur in natural language (“everyday,” “ordinary language”) discourse. Discussions in the field may address instances of scientific, legal, and other technical forms of reasoning (and notions like the distinction between science and pseudo-science), but the overriding aim has been a comprehensive account of argument that can explain and evaluate the arguments found in discussion, debate and disagreement as they manifest themselves in daily life — in social and political commentary; in news reports and editorials in the mass media (in newspapers, magazines, television, the World Wide Web, twitter, etc.); in advertising and corporate and governmental communications; and in personal exchange.

    In developing its account of argument, informal logic combines logic's traditional emphasis on inference with the study of a broad range of topics relevant to informal reasoning. The latter include, to take only a few examples, competing definitions of “argument”; argument identification; burden of proof; the empirical study of argument; diagramming; cognitive bias; the history of argument analysis; methods of argumentative investigation; the role of emotion in argument; and the implicit rules that characterize argumentative exchange in different social contexts. Hansen 2011 provides a good survey of some of the core methods of informal logic. He emphasizes the study of informal inference. Other discussions in the field range across a broader territory. In doing so, they frequently intersect with, borrow from, and contribute to the attempts to understand and/or model natural language reasoning found in formal logic, cognitive psychology, rhetoric, dialectics, computational modeling, and a range of other fields. The interdisciplinary study of informal reasoning that the amalgam of these approaches has given rise to is often called “argumentation theory.”

    In its origins and continued evolution, informal logic has often been allied with educational goals, with the aim of developing ways of analyzing everyday reasoning that can inform, and possibly be the foundation for, general education. In North America and other English speaking countries, such ideals have been associated with the “Critical Thinking Movement,” which aims to inform and improve public reasoning and debate by promoting models of education which emphasize the critical examination of beliefs and decisions, and the development of the skills that this requires. In this and other regards, informal logic has significant affinities with the “pragamatic logic” movement one finds within the Polish logical tradition (see Koszowy 2010).

    Especially in its early formulations, informal logic was sometimes understood as a theoretical alternative to formal logic. This characterization reflects early battles in philosophy departments which debated where (or whether) informal logic fit within the study of “real” logic. Today, the field enjoys a more conciliatory relationship with formal logic. While its attempt to understand informal reasoning is usually couched in natural language, research may employ formal methods and the question whether the accounts of argument which characterize informal logic can in principle be formalized is a source of active investigation. It is in this regard significant that recent work in computational modeling attempts to implement informal logic models of natural-language reasoning. It suggests that defeasible (non-monotonic) logic, probability theory, and other non-classical formal frameworks may be suited to this task.

    •1. History
    •2. What is argument/ation?
    •3. An Example: Visual Argument
    •4. NLD and Beyond
    •5. Fallacy Theory
    •6. An Example: Ad Hominem
    •7. Rhetoric
    •8. Dialectics
    •9. Dialogue Theory
    •10. The Components of Informal Logic
    •11. New Horizons
    •12. Informal Logic and Philosophy
    •Academic Tools
    •Other Internet Resources
    •Related Entries


    1. History

    Though informal logic has a number of historical precedents, its origins are found in North America in the 1970s. It comes into being as an offshoot of classical logic and might be described as a child of the 1960s, a time when social and political movements pushed for an education which was “relevant” to the issues of the day. In logic, and especially in the teaching of logic at North American universities, this fostered an interest in the logic of everyday arguments. The study of such arguments this gave rise to began with an attempt to replace artificial examples of good and bad argument that characterized early introductory logic texts (examples like: “All men are mortal. Socrates is a man. So Socrates is mortal.”) with instances of reasoning, argument, and debate taken from the social commentary and debate one finds in newspapers, the mass media, advertisements, and political campaigns. Kahane 1971 is an early example of this trend (one might contrast Copi 1957).

    Though the theoretical interests that this focus on real life examples produced are anticipated in Hamblin's Fallacies (1970) and Toulmin's The Uses of Argument (1958), informal logic proper began with the work of Johnson and Blair at the University of Windsor. Their textbook, Logical Self-Defense (1977), was an early attempt to teach the logic of informal reasoning. The Informal Logic Newsletter they conceived and edited (now the journal Informal Logic) successfully established the discipline as a field for theoretical discussion, development and research. Forty years later, the result is a recognized body of literature that informs discussions within informal logic, and a standard (but evolving) set of topics, problems, and issues that define the field. The latter include fallacies; argument schemes; the rhetorical features of argument; dialectical obligations; dialogue theory; kinds of argument (deductive, inductive, conductive); the role of images and diagrams in argument; empirical studies of argument; communication in argumentative contexts; and the history of argument analysis.

    Scholarly journals that have played a significant role in the rise of informal logic include Informal Logic, Argumentation, Philosophy and Rhetoric, Argumentation and Advocacy (formerly the Journal of the American Forensic Association), Teaching Philosophy, Inquiry: Critical Thinking Across the Disciplines and, more recently, Cogency and Argument and Computation. The journals ProtoSociology (1999) and Studies in Logic, Grammar, and Rhetoric (2009) have published important special issues on the field. In 2002 Philosophica devoted a special issue to the implications of Hilary Putnam's philosophy for informal logic.

    One early catalyst for work in informal logic was the Critical Thinking Movement (see Siegel 1988, Ennis 2011). It argued that education should be reworked to make the critical scrutiny of our beliefs and assumptions a fundamental goal of education. While the movement's implications have sometimes been interpreted in a very broad way (which may incorporate problem solving in a very generic sense, so called “lateral thinking”, and information literacy), a key theme is the importance of argument and argument assessment in educational curricula. One government decision that promoted the development of informal logic was a 1980 California State University Executive Order that mandated that post secondary education in the state include formal instruction in critical thinking. According to the order: “Instruction in critical thinking is to be designed to achieve an understanding of the relationship of language to logic, which should lead to the ability to analyze, criticize, and advocate ideas, to reason inductively and deductively and to reach factual or judgmental conclusions based on sound inferences drawn from unambiguous statements of knowledge or belief” (Dumke 1980, Executive Order 338).

    In keeping with educational interests of this sort, the development of informal logic has been intertwined with pedagogical discussions of the ways in which students can best be taught to reason well. These discussions are reflected in hundreds (perhaps thousands) of textbooks which have been used to teach informal logic to university and college students in Canada, the United States, the United Kingdom, and a growing number of other countries. Texts currently in use take a variety of approaches to the subject. In some cases they are notable for their theoretical as well as their pedagogical innovations. Current texts include: Woods, Irvine & Walton 2004; Govier 2006; Groarke & Tindale 2012; Browne & Keeley 2010; Fisher 2004; Seay & Nuccetelli 2012; Fisher 2004; Battersby 2009; and Hughes, Lavery & Doran 2010.

    Historical precedents for the pedagogical and research interests that characterize informal logic include Aristotle's rhetorical and logical works, which have been a touchstone for much discussion. One already finds a significant analogue of today's approaches to informal reasoning in nineteenth century texts which aim to raise general standards of reasoning through public education in logic. Whatley 1830 and 1844 are notable in this regard. More recently, the informal logic movement has been compared to a Polish tradition in “pragmatic logic”, which promotes the notion that the tools of logic can be used to educate people to (i) think more clearly and consistently, (ii) express their thoughts precisely and systematically, and (ii) justify their claims with proper inferences (see Koszowy 2010 and Ajdukiewicz, K. 1974).

    Today, the continued development of informal logic increasingly incorporates approaches to discourse and argumentation found in cognate disciplines and fields like Speech Communication, Rhetoric, Linguistics, Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Psychology, and Computational Modeling. Considered from this perspective, informal logic has become an integral aspect of a much broader multi-disciplinary attempt to develop an “argumentation theory” that can provide a comprehensive account of informal reasoning.

    In the course of their development, informal logic and argumentation theory have been highlighted and nurtured at a number of conferences. The most notable are nine biannual University of Windsor conferences hosted by the Ontario Society for the Study of Argumentation (OSSA), and six multi-disciplinary Amsterdam conferences hosted at four-year intervals by the International Society for the Study of Argumentation (ISSA), beginning in 1986. A tenth OSSA conference and a seventh Amsterdam conference are already planned. Other significant initiatives include four Tokyo Conferences on Argumentation hosted by the Japanese Debate Association in 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012; a series of “ArgDiaP” workshops (dealing with argumentation, critical thinking, dialogue and persuasion) held in Poland; and the “Symposium on Argument and Computation” held in Perthshire, Scotland in 2000.

    2.What is argument/ation?

    Like classical logic, most work in informal logic has understood an argument as an attempt to present evidence for a conclusion. It does so by providing premises (“propositions” or claims or some sort) that support the conclusion. Hitchcock 2006 provides a precise account of this conception, defining an argument as “a claim-reason complex” consisting of (i) an act of concluding, (ii) one or more acts of premising (which assert propositions in favour of the conclusion), and (iii) a stated or implicit inference word that indicates that the conclusion follows from the premises.

    A simple example that can illustrate this notion is the following excerpt from an opinion article in the Western Courier (25/10/08), which criticized conservative groups unwilling to support any kind of embryonic research.

    EXAMPLE 1: This [opposition to embryonic research] is shortsighted and stubborn. The fact is, fetuses are being aborted whether conservatives like it or not. Post-abortion, the embryos are literally being thrown away when they could be used in lifesaving medical research. It has become a matter of religious and personal beliefs, and misguided ones at that. Lives could be saved and vastly improved if only scientists were allowed to use embryos that are otherwise being tossed in the garbage.

    We may summarize this argument as the following claim-reason complex.

    Premise: Fetuses are being aborted anyway and lives could be saved and vastly improved if only scientists were allowed to use embryos that are otherwise being tossed in the garbage.
    Inference Indicator (implicit, unstated): (...hence...)
    Conclusion: The conservative position is shortsighted and stubborn.

    This is an argument that might be analyzed and assessed in a number of ways, in terms of general criteria for good argument or as an instance of a particular scheme of argument (in this case the scheme “two wrongs reasoning” or “argument from waste”).

    In some significant ways, Hitchcock's account of argument is purposely broad. It allows premises and conclusions to be any speech acts which assert the truth of a proposition (including acts like suggesting, hypothesizing, boasting, and deducing), and recognizes that arguments in natural language frequently occur without an explicit inference indicator like “since” or “therefore”. In addition, his account recognizes that arguments can incorporate drawings in a geometric proof, diagrams or pictures (as Hitchcock puts it: “a poster with a giant photograph of a starving emaciated child and the words ‘make poverty history’ can reasonably be construed as an argument”).

    When images are employed in these and many other contexts of dispute, they are clearly argumentative, both in the sense that a potential difference of opinion is addressed, and in the sense that some sort of evidence is provided for some conclusion. The evidence in question may be conveyed by the different lengths of the bars on a graph, shown via a step by step demonstration, or communicated through an image that evokes some moral judgment. The use of images in argumentative contexts is increasingly prevalent as technology makes the production and reproduction of images easier.

    This use of images challenges the account of argument first assumed by informal logic, which understood arguments as collections of sentences and did not recognize arguments expressed in non-verbal ways. “Visual” arguments have been defined as arguments which are conveyed, at least in part, through non-verbal visual images. The latter may include graphs, photographic evidence (used in courts, for example), documentary films, art, cartoons, and architecture. In a manner that might be compared to the attempt to expand formal logic to allow for non-verbal visual deductions (see Barwise and Etchemendy 1998), informal logicians have proposed that we analyze and assess visual arguments in a manner similar to the way in which we understand and assess verbal arguments (see Birdsell and Groarke 1996 and 2007, Blair 1996, Collins and Schmid 1999, Lunsford, Ruszkiewicz and Walters 2001, Groarke 2002, Shelley 2003, Feteris et. al. 2011, Dove 2012).

    Argument-1 and Argument-2

    Recognizing visual (and other kinds of non-verbal) arguments significantly broadens the scope of informal argument, but does so in a manner that is motivated by the same desire that has motivated its development in the first place: the desire to have some theoretical means for understanding and assessing informal arguments (which are replete with images). For the same reason, many informal logicians now distinguish between two senses of “argument” which are commonly designated “argument-1” and “argument-2”.

    Argument-1 is argument in the traditional premise and conclusion sense. Argument-2 is argument understood as the disagreement and/or exchange in which argument-1 is typically embedded. Sometimes the difference between these two kinds of argument is expressed by describing argument-2 as process or transaction, and argument-1 as the product that results from it (see Goodwin 2001). In natural language, the word “argument” can be used in either sense. We may say that “The arguments outlined for the new legislation on immigration are not convincing,” meaning that the premises offered do not successfully establish the conclusion, or that “Sarah and Sami had a heated argument,” meaning no more than they vehemently disagreed. In the first case, we are speaking of argument-1, in the second of argument-2.

    Informal logic has paid increasing attention to argument-2 as discussions in the field have evolved, for the simple reason that the assessment and analysis of argument-1 often requires an understanding of argument in this broader sense. In judging the reasonableness of a particular example of argument-1, and the extent to which it is appropriate or convincing, we must frequently consider the argument-2 that gives rise to it. A convincing argument in personal exchange may not meet the standards required to resolve a disagreement in parliament, and one that meets these standards may not meet others required by the law of torts.

    The significance of argument-2 need not deflect one from a focus on argument-1 (on arguments in the premise-and-conclusion sense), but it does mean that one must pay close attention, in the course of analyzing and assessing instances of argument-1, to “argumentation” understood in the argument-2 sense. Among other things, this suggests that the comprehensive account of informal reasoning which is its goal should include an account of a variety of speech acts that play a key role in argumentation (including questions and commands), the dynamics of disagreement, and contexts of argument. This broadening of the horizons of informal logic is in keeping with the intuition that they too can be judged against standards of rationality.

    Argument and Persuasion

    A more difficult question for informal logic is the relationship between argument and persuasion. In his discussion, Hitchcock cites Aristotle's account of persuasion in the Rhetoric. It distinguishes three aspects of persuasion: character, emotion, and argument (ethos, pathos, and logos). Like many other commentators, Hitchcock only counts the third of these as argument. As he puts it: “Presentation of oneself as having a certain character may enhance the credibility of what one says, but it is not an argument in the sense defined in the present chapter, since it lacks a premise conclusion structure. For the same reason, stirring up the emotions of one's audience is not in itself an argument, even though it may be more effective than argument at moving them, and even though it can be combined with argument.”

    The distinction between argument and persuasion has some historical significance insofar as it is the basis of the distinction between logic and rhetoric as they are traditionally understood — logic choosing argument as its focus, rhetoric choosing persuasion. This being said, the distinction between persuasion and argument remains an elusive one when one considers the arguments one finds in informal discourse. Certainly it must be said that appeals to emotion and character play a significant role in ordinary arguments that occur in social, moral and political contexts. In an argument about nuclear policy, for example, it would be artificial to remove the emotion inherent in a description of the consequences of nuclear war (say, the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima), especially as this emotion is likely to play a key role in the argument. In the case of character, why not interpret a segment of a speech in which a politician outlines their accomplishments and their record as an ethotic argument which seeks to establish the conclusion that they are of strong and honest character (and should, therefore, be supported in an election campaign)?

    Endorsing the argument-2 conception of argument, Gilbert 1997 (cf. Carozza 2007) proposes a radical move in this direction, understanding argumentation as an attempt to overcome disagreement, propounding a corresponding theory of “coalescent argument.” According to this account, arguments manifest clusters of attitudes, beliefs, feelings and intuitions associated with the arguers. Argumentative exchange is then viewed as an attempt to identify the points of agreement that can characterize different (and possibly opposed) arguers, fostering the “coalescence” of their points of view.

    On the basis of this account, Gilbert expands the scope of argument to include whatever can be used to bring about the coalescence which is its aim. This means that the substance of argument can be, not only reasons in the traditional sense, but also emotional or physical means of coalescence. Sometimes, the latter are the more effective than premises as they have been traditionally understood. While he recognizes the traditional “logical” mode of argument, this means that Gilbert adds other modes, proposing that there can be “emotional,” intuitive (“kisceral”), and physical (“visceral”) modes of argument. According to this account, a hug, a forlorn look, or tears may count as argument.

    Certainly Gilbert's examples show that actions and expressions of emotion often function as a way to convince an audience of a particular point of view. This suggests that informal argument must be understood in a way that allows for this. It is less clear that this requires the radical re-conception of argument he proposes. One might instead attempt to account for the non-logical arguments he identifies as instances of argument-1 that use non-verbal means of communicating propositions which function as premises in a relatively standard sense. When a student (to take one of Gilbert's examples) cries in a professor's office in order to convey the importance he attaches to an A grade in a course, this might, for example, be understood as a non-verbal enthymeme which forwards the argument “I will be devastated if I do not receive an A in this course; you should act in a way that doesn't leave me devastated upset; so you should award me an A grade.” As Gilbert proposes, this is an emotional argument, but not necessarily one that requires fundamentally different criteria of assessment than arguments traditionally conceived. Once the argument has been recognized, one might instead proceed in the standard way, by judging whether the premises are plausible or not, and whether they entail or make probable the conclusion.

    3. An Example: Visual Argument

    Examples can best illustrate some of the ways in which informal logic has extended the scope of argument it began with. The advertisement below is an instance of visual argument that can be used to show how informal logic's analysis of argument can be applied to visual images. Under the title “Just Add Vodka” it features a bottle of vodka spilling its contents onto a village below. The time of day (dusk), the inactivity and the darkness suggest a sleepy hamlet where there is nothing to do at night. In the image, this contrasts sharply with the bustling cityscape that has sprung to life where the vodka splashes to the ground — a cityscape that boasts a nightlife among the skyscrapers, nightclubs, bars, and restaurants.

    EXAMPLE 2:

    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Vodka

    If we attempt to understand it literally, the image makes little sense — bottles of vodka are not so absurdly large, do not pour vodka on sleepy villages, and would not create a Manhattan streetscape if they did. In view of these incongruities (and the fundamental principles that guide us in the interpretation of speech acts), we do not naturally interpret the image as a literal depiction of some event, but as a visual metaphor. In this case, the metaphor propounds a message of transformation to the viewer, the vodka functioning as the catalyst for the change. One might roughly summarize this message verbally, as the message that: “Vodka can transform your sleepy life into one full of cosmopolitan excitement.”

    A detailed analysis of the image might analyse its use of colours, its aesthetic qualities, its relationship to other images, its sexual connotations, and so on. In the context of argumentation, the key point is that the ad is intended as a way to convince us that we should add vodka to our lives (and in a real advertisement, a particular brand of vodka). In view of this, we might express the message as a visual argument, which can be paraphrased as follows:

    Premise: If you add vodka to your life, your sleepy nights will be transformed into nights of cosmopolitan excitement.
    Conclusion: You should add vodka to your life (i.e., purchase vodka).

    One might fill out this analysis by noting that the move from the premise to the conclusion depends on an implicit premise/assumption which we might summarize as the proposition that “A life of cosmopolitan excitement is highly desirable.”

    Once the image is recognized as an argument, we can assess it in the way that informal logic assesses verbal arguments. The great advantage of this approach is that it invites a critical assessment of the argument it forwards. To that end, it can be said that the premise of the argument is obviously questionable, for it is not clear that the consumption of vodka is a likely way to transform one's life into an exciting cosmopolitan life (rather than one beset by, for example, alcohol-related problems).

    Once we recognize the argumentative structure of the advertisement, we can go further, and consider whether it should be understood as an instance of an argument scheme (a standard pattern of argument). In this case, it can be classified as an instance of a variant of the fallacy “affirming the consequent,” albeit a normative variant which does not allow one to infer that “X is desirable” from the premises that “If X then Y” and “Y is desirable.” The unacceptability of the inferences that make up such arguments can be demonstrated with examples, as with the argument, “If all sex acts were eliminated, we would eliminate sexually transmitted diseases. The elimination of sexually transmitted disease is desirable. Therefore the elimination of all sex acts is desirable.”

    The key point is that image in question can be recognized as an act of communication with an implicit premise and conclusion structure. Understanding it in this way — as an instance of visual argument — allows us to analyze and evaluate it with the tools of analysis and assessment that informal logic has developed (whether additional tools are needed to assess such arguments remains an open question). In this way, the evaluation of argumentative images can be made a matter of systematic examination and critical inquiry which goes beyond aesthetic assessment. In the present case, this allows one to describe the image as an impressive accomplishment from an artistic or aesthetic point of view (which it surely is), but still criticize it as an image which conveys a fallacious argument with questionable premises and debatable assumptions.

    4. NLD and Beyond

    One impetus for the development of informal logic has been the view that natural language arguments do not fit the deductive framework emphasized in traditional logic. The extent to which informal arguments can be understood as deductive arguments has, therefore, been a source of significant debate within informal logic. “Natural Language Deductivism” (NLD) is the view that all informal arguments should be interpreted as attempts to create deductively valid inferences.

    If the premises of a deductively valid argument are true, its conclusion must be true (i.e., cannot be false). Deductive arguments have traditionally been associated with logical and mathematical reasoning thought to produce certain or necessary conclusions, but good deductive arguments in informal contexts typically yield conclusions that are reasonable or plausible — because they rely on premises which are reasonable or plausible (rather than certain). In such cases, a conclusion is as certain as the premises of an argument, but this does not mean that it is certain. In the valid inference:

    EXAMPLE 3: The population of the world will grow from 6 to 9 billion from in the next fifteen years so we will, if we are to provide sufficient food for everyone, need a way to provide for an additional 3 billion people.

    the premise of the argument is not, for example, certain, but reasonable (on the basis of other reasoning that extrapolates from current population trends). It follows that the conclusion of the argument is reasonable rather than certain.

    The goal of natural language deductivism is an approach to informal arguments which allows one to effectively and efficiently assess the support they provide for their conclusions. It suggests that one should do so by:

    (i) interpreting an argument as an attempt to construct a deductively valid inference; and then
    (ii) assessing the credibility of the premises of the argument.

    Because the conclusion of a deductively valid argument is as certain as its premises, (ii) provides a gauge of the strength of the evidence an argument provides in favour of its conclusion. In the case of EXAMPLE 3 above, step (i) in NLD assessment is straightforward (because the argument is obviously valid). Step (ii) is the judgment that the premise of the argument is a reasonable conjecture. On the basis of (ii), we have already noted that the argument establishes its conclusion as a reasonable conjecture.

    The major challenge for natural language deductivism is its account of informal arguments that are not explicitly deductive. In circumstances of this sort, NLD assigns arguments implicit premises which, once recognized, render such arguments deductively valid. Govier 1987 therefore describes NLD as a theory of “reconstructive” deductivism). The general approach to argument ‘reconstruction’ it proposes can be illustrated with an example. Consider the following inductive generalization, which would usually be understood as a paradigm example of an argument which is not deductively valid:

    EXAMPLE 4: The French are fastidious about their appearance. I have met many of them in the course of my work there and this was true of all of them.

    Here the claim that “The many French I have met in the course of my work there were all fastidious about their appearance” acts as a premise for the conclusion that “The French are fastidious about their appearance.” Natural language deductivism suggests that we should treat this as an attempt to construct a deductive inference by understanding it as an argument with an implicit premise. It may, for example, assign the argument the implicit premise that “The French have the same attitude to their appearance that I have witnessed in the many French I have met in the course of my work there.” So understood, the argument can be seen as a deductively valid inference.

    According to NLD, we can always assign some implicit premise that will serve the purposes of deductivist reconstruction. In doing so, the deductivist may note that implicit premises are a generally accepted feature of natural language arguments, and invoke standard ways of identifying implicit premises. The pragma-dialectical account of indirect speech acts (Eemeren and Grootendorst 2002) is, for example, well suited to deductivist reconstruction.

    In favour of natural language deductivism, it has been argued that it is an attractive theory of informal argument because it proposes a theory that analyzes and assesses all arguments as instances of one well understood form of inference; eliminates difficult distinctions between deductive, inductive, conductive, abductive, etc. arguments (which are not clearly distinguished in natural language argumentation); and recognizes implicit premises in a way that usefully propels dialectical exchange in ordinary argument (see Groarke 1999). Aristotle has been proposed as a key historical figure who adopts the deductivist approach (Groarke 2009). Those who reject deductivism argue that it is an artificial theory which forces informal arguments to adhere to an overly restrictive model of argument that is too narrow to account for the richness of ordinary reasoning (Johnson 2000 and Godden 2004).

    Alternative accounts of informal argument grant that deductive reasoning is one component of informal reasoning, but maintain that many informal arguments do not fit this model of reasoning. Many accounts of informal logic categorize arguments in terms of the traditional distinction between “deductive” and “inductive” arguments, a distinction which Govier 1987 dubs “the great divide,” emphasizing the latter over the former. If the premises of an “inductively valid” argument are true, the conclusion is only probable or plausible, leaving open the possibility that the premises are true and the conclusion false.

    In classifying the basic forms of inference that characterize natural language arguments, some countenance other kinds of inferences that are said to be unique: notably “conductive” and “abductive” arguments.

    Conductive arguments are instances of argument that provide an accumulation of non-decisive reasons in favour of a conclusion (see Zenker and Fischer 2010, Other Internet Resources). Different pieces of evidence may each suggest (but not conclusively prove) that a defendant charged with murder is guilty. Taken summatively (the witness said he pulled the trigger, the ballistics report shows that the bullet came from a gun he owned, he was overheard saying he would “get” the victim, etc.) these different reasons may provide a strong (but not conclusive) conductive argument for this conclusion.

    Abductive arguments are “inferences to the best explanation.” They typically recognize some facts, point out that it is entailed by a certain hypothesis, and conclude that the hypothesis is true. Taken at face value, abductive arguments appear to be instances of the fallacy “affirming the consequent,” and might on these grounds be dismissed, though they play a central role in medical, scientific and legal reasoning (see Walton 2004).

    Gilbert 1997 proposes a more radical recategorization of arguments which would recognize “emotional arguments” as a fundamental category which demands its own treatment and assessment. “Visual” and “non-verbal” arguments are other categories that are common. The extent to which these different categories need to be recognized as distinct forms of inference (rather than special instances or distinct expressions of more basic categories) remains a matter of debate.

    5. Fallacy Theory

    Early work in informal logic favoured fallacies as a way of assessing informal arguments. Traditional accounts define a fallacy as a pattern of poor reasoning which appears to be (and in this sense mimics) a pattern of good reasoning (see Hansen 2002). Such accounts are a problematic basis for a general account of fallacies insofar as what appears to be good reasoning to one person may not appear so to another. In assessing ordinary arguments, these issues can be avoided by understanding fallacies more simply, as common patterns of faulty reasoning which can usefully be identified in the evaluation of informal arguments.

    In its treatment of fallacies, informal logic revives a tradition which can be traced to Aristotle. In the history of logic and philosophy, its significance is reflected in the writings of figures like Locke, Whately, and Mill. Today, this tradition manifests itself in textbooks and websites which attempt to teach good informal reasoning by teaching students how to detect the standard fallacies.

    Theoretical discussions of fallacies have not produced an agreed-upon taxonomy, but there is a common set of fallacies which are typically used in the analysis of informal arguments. They include formal fallacies like affirming the consequent and denying the antecedent; and informal fallacies like ad hominem (“against the person”), slippery slope, ad bacculum (“appeal to force”), ad misericordiam (“appeal to pity”), “hasty generalization,” and “two wrongs” (as in “two wrongs don't make a right”). In textbooks, authors may devise their own nomenclature to highlight the properties of particular kinds of fallacious arguments (“misleading vividness” thus designates the misuse of vivid anecdotal evidence, and so on.)

    In the research literature, Woods and Walton have discussed the definition, analysis and assessment of a variety of fallacies in a series of articles and books, first as co-authors and then individually (see, e.g., Woods and Walton 1989, Walton 1989, Woods 1995, Walton 1992, Walton 2000). Van Eemeren and Grootendorst 1992 have proposed a “pragma-dialectical” theory which analyses fallacies as violations of the rules of critical discussion (discussion which aims to critically resolve a difference of opinion). A good representative collection of classical and contemporary essays on the fallacies is found in Hansen and Pinto 1995.

    Some research in informal logic continues to focus on fallacies, and on the appropriate understanding of particular fallacies, but the field has evolved in different directions which place less emphasis on the fallacy approach. In some cases this has been because fallacies can be subsumed by more general accounts of argument. If one adopts a dialogical approach to argument, for example, then the crux of one's theory of argument is the implicit rules that govern various kinds of dialogical exchange. One can then see fallacies, not as a theoretically distinct notion, but as deviations from these rules. This approach leaves room for fallacies but makes an account of dialogical exchange, not fallacies, the basis of one's account of argument.

    In other contexts, many have criticized fallacy theory on the grounds that traditional fallacies are imprecise tools for understanding argument, and because a focus on them inevitably emphasizes poor reasoning rather than good argument. Hitchcock (1995, 324) has, for example, written that the claim that we should teach good reasoning by fallacies is “like saying that the best way to teach somebody to play tennis without making the common mistakes … is to demonstrate these faults in action and get him to label and respond to them.”

    The problems with fallacy theory have been compounded by research which has identified many instances of traditional fallacies which appear to be reasonable patterns of inference in day-to-day contexts of argument. In such discussions, commentators point to examples like the following:

    EXAMPLE 5: Martin Luther King Jr., influenced by Gandhi, argued that we can justifiably break laws in a democratic country if our goal is change which has been unjustly obstructed. Such arguments play a central role in the American civil rights movement. They are not obviously fallacious, though they are a case of “two wrongs make a right” suggesting, as they do, that we can justifiably do something wrong (break a law) if we are responding to another wrong (i.e., some law, decision or policy that unjustly obstructs change).

    EXAMPLE 6: The argument that “The attempt to use military might to put an end to terrorism is wrong because it will take us down a slippery slope that will end in improper interference in the affairs of independent states” cannot be dismissed as a bad argument simply by saying that it is an instance of the fallacy slippery slope. If such a slippery slope is plausible, then the argument has some merit.

    EXAMPLE 7: The argument “No one with a history of heart disease should take up running, for running is a strenuous form of exercise, and no one with a history of heart disease should engage in strenuous exercise” is, like many informal arguments, deductively valid. In such cases, it is impossible for the conclusion of the argument to be false if the premises are true. Sometimes this relationship is described by saying that the premises of the argument already contain the conclusion; but this suggests that all deductive arguments commit the fallacy begging the question, which occurs when an argument assumes what it attempts to prove.

    EXAMPLE 8: The argument that we should not listen to the metaphysical arguments of someone who has accosted us, on the grounds that he is psychotically disturbed and doesn't know what he is taking about, is an instance of ad hominem, but it is not fallacious. Assuming these premises true, this is eminently reasonable practical advice.

    In the wake of many examples and discussions of this sort, contemporary accounts of fallacies widely recognize there are arguments which have the form of traditional fallacies, but cannot be rejected as fallacious. While the field of informal logic still recognizes key fallacies (e.g., equivocation and false dilemma) in pedagogical and theoretical discussion, the problems with fallacy theory have convinced many that theories of informal logic should focus, not on fallacies, but on general criteria for good reasoning (premise acceptability and relevance, etc.). The latter is often manifest in the study of structures for good inference (“argument schemes”) which set standards for particular kinds of good reasoning.

    Grennan 1997 has proposed an approach to informal reasoning which proposes logical adequacy and pragmatic adequacy as the key criteria for judging and evaluating everyday inferences. He attempts to build an account of informal logic that extends beyond fallacies and deductive forms of reasoning by identifying good patterns of reasoning used in successful everyday contexts. Groarke & Tindale 2012 use traditional fallacies as a basis for the definition of positive argument schemes, by treating ad hominem, guilt by association, appeals to ignorance, two wrongs reasoning, etc. as legitimate schemes of argument — and by treating fallacious instances of them as deviations from an (inherently correct) norm.

    Other authors do not go this far, but informal logic has, since its inception, evolved in a way that places less emphasis on the traditional fallacies, and more on the identification of cogent appeals to authority, arguments by analogy, and other schemes or argument, and on the general issues that arise in the construction of good arguments.

    6. An Example: Ad Hominem

    Different approaches to fallacies can be illustrated with the fallacy ad hominem. Consider as a first example a remark adapted from a Danish television debate over the question whether the Danish church should be separated from the Danish state (Jorgensen 1995, 369).

    EXAMPLE 9: You should not listen to my opponent. He wants to sever the Danish church from the state for his own personal sake.

    This remark attempts to cast doubt on the proposal that the Danish church and state be seperated by casting doubt on the motivation behind the proposal — by alleging that it is motivated by its proponent's own personal interests (which the speaker goes on to elaborate). Here we have an attempt to provide a reason (and hence an argument) for the conclusion that one should not listen to the proposal to separate the Danish church and state.

    Looked at from the point of view of fallacy theory, this is a classic case of ad hominem. Kahane 1995 (p. 65), for example, describes it as a fallacy that occurs when an arguer is guilty “of attacking his opponent rather than his opponent's evidence and arguments.” In the case at hand, this means that the debater constructs an argument which attacks the motivation and the character of the person promoting the separation of the Danish church and state, instead of showing what is wrong with the arguments he has provided for his proposal. On these grounds, the argument can be dismissed as an instance of the fallacy ad hominem.

    Consider a second example from Velonews: The Journal of Competitive Cycling. In the wake of an article on the retirement of Lance Armstrong, the seven-time winner of the Tour de France (17/02/2011), its website featured an exchange between its readers. In response to a contributer who argued that Armstrong was a great athlete and that everyone should be happy for Armstrong and celebrate his accomplishments, one commentator wrote:

    He's not a great athlete, he's a fraud, a cheat and a liar. That's why not everybody is “happy for Lance.”

    Here the explanation why not everyone is “happy for Lance” forwards a reason why one shouldn't celebrate his career: i.e., because he is a cheater and a liar (because he allegedly violated doping regulations). In answer to this retort, the initial arguer responded with the comment:

    EXAMPLE 10: Jealousy is a bummer.

    Here we have another paradigm example of ad hominem. As in EXAMPLE 9, the arguer dismisses an argument they oppose, not on the grounds that the premises or inferences it incorporates are problematic, but by discrediting (and in this and many other cases, insulting) the arguer who proposes it.

    Dialogical approaches to argument have a different theoretical structure than fallacy theory, but they invite a very similar analysis of these examples. According to Van Eemeren and Grootendorst 1992, an instance of ad hominem is a violation of the first rule for critical discussion, which maintains that “Parties [to a dispute] must not prevent each other from advancing standpoints or casting doubts on arguments.” Different kinds of ad hominem (abusive, tu quoque, and circumstantial ad hominem) are different violations of this rule. In this case, it suffices to say that the debater's attack on his opponent can be seen as an illegitimate attempt to deny him his right to make a case for his position.

    Other approaches to informal arguments are critical of the fallacy approach, proposing a more sympathetic approach to ad hominem. As they point out, there are circumstances where criticisms of the person are legitimate grounds for doubting or rejecting their point of view. If we can demonstrate that a politican has millions of dollars to gain from the passage of a particular motion, this is a reason to be sceptical of their point of view. If an arguer has repeatedly shown poor judgment or lacks the requisite knowledge to make reasonable judgments about some issue, then this may be a good reason to dismiss their point of view. This is especially true in informal contexts, in which arguers may be inundated with many more arguments and positions than they can possibly investigate, forcing them to decide which arguments merit their attention. In such contexts, ad (or pro) hominem considerations may be the most reasonable way to make these decisions.

    Rhetorical approaches to argument invite this approach to ad hominem, which can be understood in terms of Aristotle's suggestion that the ethos of a speaker plays a crucial role in determining whether an argument is persuasive or not. In keeping with this, an ad hominem argument may be understood as an attack on the ethos of an arguer which is in principle acceptable. This does not mean that every ad hominem is acceptable, but only those which convincingly undermine the credibility of the arguer who is criticized. In the extreme cases, where ad hominem attacks tend to be ad hoc insults (as in EXAMPLE 10 above), the intemperate and arbitrary nature of such attacks is likely to undermine, not the ethos of the person attacked, but the ethos of the arguer who launches the attack.

    One may enshrine the notion that ad hominem moves can be acceptable in different ways within a theory of informal argument. If one understands ad hominem as a pattern of argument (providing reasons for the conclusion that one should dismiss or be sceptical of someone's point of view), then one must find a method for distinguishing between instances of this pattern which are and are not acceptable. If one analyzes ad hominem as a particular kind of move in dialectical exchange, then one may develop rules of dialogue which distinguish circumstances in which such moves are and are not acceptable. Nevetheless, many of the ad hominem arguments that appear in everyday discourse remain problematic, notwithstanding such attempts to accommodate them. What is right about the traditional view that ad hominem arguments are fallacious can still be captured in the observation that such arguments cannot definitively show that there are flaws in the arguments offered for the position they dismiss. In order to demonstrate the latter, one must deal directly with these arguments — and not merely the arguers who propound them.

    7. Rhetoric

    Especially when one considers non-fallacy approaches to informal argument, one might compare informal logic to classical formal logic. In both cases one finds an attempt to identify general criteria for good reasoning and argument schemes that incorporate specific forms of reasoning. In the latter case, this is reflected in a focus on validity and soundness, and on deductive argument schemes encapsulated in rules of inference like modus ponens (“Affirming the Antecedent”), double negation, modus tollens (“Denying the Consequent”), etc. In the case of informal logic, the standard criteria for good argument can be reduced to (i) premise acceptability and (ii) a conclusion that follows from the premises. This second criterion is typically understood in terms of relevance and sufficiency, making a good argument an argument with premises that are relevant to the conclusion and sufficient to establish it as (at least) acceptable. Within informal logic, the key argument schemes discussed include arguments from authority, causal reasoning, arguments by analogy, and various forms of moral argument.

    In other ways, informal logic might be contrasted with formal logic insofar as it aims to understand the dynamics of arguments which operate in complex varied social interactions which serve many different purposes. In a particular circumstance, this may mean that the success or failure of an argument needs to be understood and assessed in ways that extend beyond the notions that define classical logic. The latter evaluates arguments in terms of “soundness,” defining a sound argument as a deductively valid inference with true premises that establishes the truth of its conclusion. This is a conception of good argument which can be applied to many instances of ordinary argument, but there are many situations in which the success and failure of arguments may be measured in other ways.

    Different informal contexts may be characterized by different levels of uncertainty (sometimes extreme uncertainty); by deep and fundamentally different worldviews; by ethical and aesthetic judgments which are not easily categorized as true or false (or correct and incorrect); and by variable social contexts with different aims, in which which particular assumptions may be accepted, rejected, or reversed (in arguments about international affairs, in the court room, in alternative dispute mediation, in commentary on the arts, in the formation of science policy, and so on). Pinto 2001 suggests that the aim of many arguments does not appear to be assent to the truth of a proposition but the withholding of assent (or full assent) or a particular attitude. An argument may, for example, function as a means of instilling fear or hope or disapprobation. In order to leave room for these kinds of examples, he defines an argument as “an invitation to inference” (68–69) which is not limited to the aim of establishing the truth of some proposition.

    In looking for ways to account for the features of argument that are not captured by traditional logical conceptions, informal logicians have turned to rhetorical traditions. Insofar as it takes persuasion to be the goal of argument, it recognizes its social function and the role this must play in understanding successful argument. Looked at from this point of view, soundness is not sufficient for successful argument, for there is no guarantee that a (deductively) valid argument with true premises will convince an audience of its conclusion (or instill in them the attitude an arguer intends). At the very least, a successful argument must offer premises they accept (and, ideally, embrace). As successful arguers have always known, this means that the construction of a successful argument requires, not only a search for true premises, but an understanding of the members of one's audience (their beliefs, attitudes and values) and the premises that will consequently ‘speak’ to them.

    Those aspects of argument which play a key role in their success as vehicles of persuasion are the three components of argument which are the foundation for Aristotelean rhetoric: pathos (the convictions of the audience to whom an argument is addressed), logos (the logic of the argument), and ethos (the character of the arguer). Ethos plays a role in persuasion because we are, as Aristotle suggests, more likely to be convinced by an arguer we believe to be credible and trustworthy. It is this which explains why arguers who indulge in frequent insult, exaggeration and other questionable tactics frequently undermine their own use of argument. The relevance of rhetorical analysis to informal logic is emphasized by Tindale (1999, 2004, 2010), who advocates an approach to informal logic that incorporates traditional rhetoric.

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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:38 pm

    Informal Logic continued:

    8. Dialectics

    Other aspects of ordinary argument which extend the scope of informal logic are dialectical. Dialectics understands argument as a kind of exchange — what can roughly be described as the exchange of positions (theses) and counter-positions. The dialectical approach places argument within the broader scope of dispute and debate. In contemporary discussions of argument, the most influential dialectical approach is pragma-dialectics, an approach developed by Van Eemeren and Grootendorst 1992 (sometimes known as “the Amsterdam School”). It sees argumentation as a means of resolving differences of opinion which must operate within particular rules for critical discussion.

    The pragma-dialectical approach incorporates many of the standard features of argument analysis. Fallacies can, for example, be understood as violations of the rules for critical discussion, and the development of such discussion incorporates the use of schemes of argument. Rhetorical influences are incorporated as a form of “strategic maneouvring,” understood as the attempt to rhetorically influence the outcome of a dispute (see Tindale 2004, ch. 1 Eemeren & Houtlosser 2002, and Feteris et al. 2011). In understanding strategic maneouvring, rhetorical considerations are brought to bear in three ways: (i) through topical potential (the way the topic is framed and presented); (ii) by addressing audience demands (by “communion” with the audience); and (iii)through presentational devices (by choosing the best figure or scheme to achieve one's ends).

    Within informal logic, the dialectical aspects of argument have given rise to the notion that arguers have “dialectical obligations” which are a key component of proper argument (see Johnson 2000). As arguers our key dialectical obligation is an obligation to respond to (and anticipate) objections that might be raised by our opponents in the dispute in which we are engaged. To emphasize this point, Johnson distinguishes between the “illative” core of an argument and its “dialectical” tier. The illative core is the set of premises offered in support of the conclusion; the dialectical tier consists of alternative points of view, likely objections to the conclusion, and the premises and whatever assumptions characterize debate about the conclusion. This raises the question whether logic as it has been traditionally conceived pays too much attention to the illative core of arguments, i.e., not recognizing that a rational arguer must pay as much attention to their dialectical tier.

    According to Johnson, all genuine arguments are dialectical and must discharge dialectical obligations. This suggests that the paradigm example of argument in the history of logic — a giving of reasons for some conclusion can, without elaboration, be classified only as a “proto-argument.” Most authors (e.g., Govier 1999 and Hitchcock 2002) have rejected the suggestion that we should broaden our definitions to make dialectical obligations a necessary component of an argument, but now grant that some accounting of the dialectical aspects of argumentative exchange must be an integral part of any comprehensive understanding of ordinary argument.

    9. Dialogue Theory

    Dialectical approaches to argument have highlighted the extent to which argumentation is a dialogue between (real or imagined) interlocutors who argue for different points of view. In view of this, the structure of the dialogues in which arguments are embedded has become a major area of research in informal logic. Pragma-dialectics take critical discussion as a model, distinguishing different stages of such dialogue (confrontation, opening, argumentation, and closing) and the rules that apply at each stage. Others distinguish different types of dialogues that are characterized by different goals and structures.

    The intuitive basis for the distinction between different types of dialogue is evident if one compares the norms of argument in different kinds of contexts. In an inquiry, arguments are used as tools in an attempt to establish what is true. So understood, arguments must adhere to strict standards that determine what counts as evidence and counter-evidence for some point of view. In collective bargaining, a form of negotiation dialogue, arguments function in a very different way. Not as a means for establishing what is true, but as tools in an attempt to find a negotiated settlement between two parties which have conflicting interests (an employer and their employees in a union). Rigourous rules govern such exchange (prohibiting “bargaining in bad faith” and so on), but they are different rules than those that govern a dialogue which functions as a search for truth. Collective bargaining is, for example, a kind of dialogue in which the use of threats (to strike or lock employees out) are a key part of the process. In contrast, threats have no clear role in critical inquiry, where they would ordinarily be classed as instances of the fallacy ad bacculum.

    Walton 2007 has emerged as one of the most significant proponents of a dialogue approach. He understands a dialogue as an exchange made up of an opening stage, an argumentation stage, and a closing stage. In the opening stage, the arguers in the dialogue agree to participate. The rules for the dialogue define what types of moves are allowed. What kinds of questions are permitted, for example, and how they can be responded to.

    Walton distinguishes seven basic types of dialogue which can be summarized as follows.

    1. Persuasion -- Conflict of Opinion -- Persuade Other Party -- Resolve Issue.

    2. Inquiry -- Need to Have Proof -- Verify Evidence -- Prove Hypothesis.

    3. Discovery -- Need for Explanation -- Find a Hypothesis -- Support Hypothesis.

    4. Negotiation -- Conflict of Interests -- Secure Interests -- Settle Issue.

    5. Information -- Need Information -- Acquire Information -- Exchange Information.

    6. Deliberation -- Practical Choice -- Fit Goals and Actions -- Decide What to Do.

    7. Eristic -- Personal Conflict -- Attack an Opponent -- Reveal Deep Conflict.

    The dialogue approach provides a clear way to recognize the different norms and expectations tied to different argumentative context. It raises the question whether the proposed accounts of particular dialogues are adequate, whether the kinds of dialogues that have been identified are adequate (or necessary) to explain the different kinds of argumentation that characterize ordinary discourse, and whether there are types of dialogues that have not yet been identified (or whether there are kinds of argumentation that resist categorizations of this sort).

    10. The Components of Informal Logic

    As a field of study and research, informal logic has evolved into a complex attempt to understand the nature and assessment of informal arguments. Though any list of informal logic issues cannot be definitive, the current state of the field suggests that a complete theory of informal logic would have to include: account of the principles of communication which argumentative exchange depends upon;
    2.a distinction between different kinds of dialogue in which argument may occur, and the ways in which they determine appropriate and inappropriate moves in argumentation (e.g., the difference between scientific discussion and negotiation); account of logical consequence, which explains when it can be said (and what it means to say) that some claim (or attitude) is a logical consequence of another;
    4.a typology of argument which provides a framework of argument and analysis by indentifying the basic types of argument that need to be distinguished (deductivism is monistic, hence one of the simplest typologies; others will distinguish between fundamentally different kinds of argument); account of good argument which specifies general criteria for deductive, inductive, and conductive arguments;
    6.definitions of positive argument schema which define good patterns of reasoning (reasonable appeals to authority, reasonable attacks against the person; etc.);
    7.some theoretical account of fallacies and the role they can (and cannot) play in understanding and assessing informal arguments; account of the role that audience (pathos) and ethos and other rhetorical notions should play in analysing and assessing argument; explanation of the dialectical obligations that attach to arguments in particular kinds of contexts.

    Each of these components subsumes more specific issues and questions that would have to be addressed in a full account of argument. A complete account of the principles of communication that argumentation depends on must, for example, incorporate principles that can account for the meaning of images (photographs, graphs, diagrams, illustrations, videos, specimens, etc.) and other non-verbal elements of argument. In developing a general account of good argument, a full theory would include an account of the extent to which the criteria for good argument can be formalized and the best ways of doing so. In the course of the latter, one might ask whether the account of argument that emerges from informal logic can provide a basis for computational modeling and attempts to use computers to assist with, or engage in, the kinds of reasoning that characterize informal contexts (see, e.g., Reed & Norman 2004).

    11. New Horizons

    Informal logic continues to extend its scope as it evolves. One area of development combines the theory of informal argument and computational modeling. Informal logic models of argument have informed the attempt to model interactions between agents in multi-agent systems, and the attempt to mimic or assist human reasoning. Computational applications include systems that involve the development of large-scale webs of inter-connected arguments, reasoning about medical decisions, legal decision making, chemical properties and other complex systems, and general models of argument (see, e.g., Rahwana et al. 2007, Carbogim et al. 2000, Prakken and Vreeswijk 2001, Reed 1997, Reed and Long 1998, and Prakken 2011). Verheij 1999 has developed systems of automated argument assistance which function as computational aids that can assist in the generation of an argument (a link to his Automated Argument Assistance web site is included in Other Internet Resources below). Reed and Norman 2003 have published a pioneering collection of essays which attempt to look at “argument machines” and the ways they might be conceptualized and developed.

    Insofar as informal logic remains an attempt to develop a logic that is accessible to the everyday reasoner, it and computational modeling will remain separate theoretical endeavours. That said, both depend on a theoretical understanding of the way in which informal reasoning works and should be assessed. In the long run, the formal modeling this inspires may reestablish stronger links between formal and informal logic (links that will depend on logics which are more sensitive to the different facets of ordinary reasoning than classical logic). The results may foster the development of informal logic within a more integrated logic (or argumentation theory) that recognizes the differences between formal and informal logic, but recognizes an overarching model of reasoning that can explain both endeavours.

    As informal logic has extended its scope, some researchers have looked for empirical ways to test it. To this end, they have looked for evidence that can show that the teaching of informal logic improves (or does not improve) informal reasoning skills. Questions about the efficacy of informal logic in the classroom are, however, inherently complex. Among other things, a careful attempt to test its effects would have to distinguish between very different approaches to the teaching of informal reasoning. One cannot assume that approaches which emphasize fallacies will, for example, have the same results as those which emphasize argument schemes or rules of dialogue. Ideally, the collection of the empirical evidence would, if it could be collected on the basis of a convincing testing regime, help settle continuing disputes about the relative efficacy of theoretically distinct approaches to teaching.

    Empirical testing has been complicated by debates about the adequacy of the tests that have been used to measure informal reasoning skills. Creating a valid test is a complex endeavor because good informal reasoning is an inherently complex phenomenon which subsumes many specific skills. While some of these are not difficult to measure — e.g., the ability of students to make straightforward deductions and distinguish between necessary and sufficient conditions — it is not clear that these are the most important skills in reasoning that requires that one adeptly weave one's way through the enormous web of debate and discussion that characterizes ordinary discourse (in, to take one example, global debates about what should be done about government debts and deficits).

    What counts as good reasoning or, “critical thinking” (or, even more so, creative thinking), tends to be open ended and unpredictable, dialectical, and influenced by pragmatic and contextual considerations which are not easily assessed using the standard means of large scale testing, i.e., multiple choice tests. Instruments like the California Critical Thinking Test have therefore been criticized (see Groarke 2007 and Sobocan et al. 2007). This does not mean that good testing is in principle impossible, but it does suggest that the discussion and development of methods of assessment needs to be one aspect of the future development of informal logic.

    The assumptions of informal logic are being tested in another way by commentators who study argument “corpora” — large collections of argument drawn from natural language discourse. Jorgenson, Kock and Rorbech 1991 studied a series of 37 one-hour televised debates from Danish public TV which featured well-known public figures arguing for and against current policy proposal. A representative audience of 100 voters voted before and after the debate, in an attempt to statistically establish what moves and properties are likely to win votes in a representative audience. These conclusions were then compared with commonly held notions about “proper” or “valid” argumentation. Other studies are considering corpora made up of large databases of selected written texts (see, e.g., Goodwin & Cortes 2010, and Mochales & Ieven 2009). In principle, corpora made up of whole libraries are possible in the future.

    12. Informal Logic and Philosophy

    Philosophy's association with theories of argument is already evident in ancient times. The relationship flows both ways, philosophy requiring an account of argument as it assembles evidence for particular philosophical perspectives, the theory of argument raising fundamental questions about the nature of reason, rationality and what counts as evidence. In keeping with this association, philosophy and philosophers have played, and continue to play, the defining role in the evolution of informal logic, though work in the field often overlaps with developments in cognate disciplines such as Communication Studies, Rhetoric, and Artificial Intelligence.

    Within informal logic, one finds two distinct attitudes to philosophical considerations. The work of some sees philosophy as the core element of informal logic. The paradigm example of such a view is found in Johnson 2000, who argues that a comprehensive account of argument must be built upon a philosophical account of rationality. An alternative view suggests that informal logic's relationship to philosophy is more comparable to the relationship that exists between the latter and formal logic, and that developments in the means of analyzing and assessing ordinary argument can (at least in many instances) take place independently of a consideration of the philosophical questions which may be raised about its ultimate justification and its philosophical implications. Such a view suggests that we might distinguish between informal logic and the philosophy of informal logic — i.e., between the development of our understanding of day-to-day reasoning and the attempt to provide a philosophical account of it. Even on this view, these two endeavours are closely related and likely to cross-fertilize each other.

    However one understands the role of philosophy within informal logic, its investigation of standards of argument and reason has obvious ties to a variety of philosophical concerns about truth, justification and knowledge. The natural connections between informal logic and epistemology are evident in Goldman 1999, who attempts to defend an account of knowledge and the acquisition of knowledge which situates knowledge within social interactions that take place within interpersonal exchange and knowledge institutions. This allows him to evaluate social practices in terms of their veritistic value (i.e., their tendency to produce states like knowledge, error and ignorance). In the process, his account devotes considerable attention to the practice of argumentation, and the constraints which make it a practice which is to be valued because it produces positive veritistic results. In doing so, he draws on work in informal logic and reflects its interest in both monological and dialogical argumentation, and in a broad understanding of argument that incorporates rhetorical and dialectical responsibilities.

    In this and other ways, informal logic's attempt to model reasoning reflects, and has important implications for, philosophical concerns about the nature of rationality, the nature of the mind and its processes, the standards of good reasoning, the value of logic and rhetoric, and the social, political and epistemological role of reasoning and argument. In many ways, the discussion of informal logic's ties to philosophy of mind, ethics and epistemology has just begun. A more extensive exploration of these ties is likely to be one significant aspect of discussion in the future.

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    Woods, John and Douglas Walton, 1989. Fallacies: Selected Papers 1972–1982, Dordrecht/Providence: Foris.
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Poster_logic
    I've been really passive with this solar system governance thing -- but I haven't seen other models of solar system governance (except for maybe one) -- but I'm sure they're out there. Someone who should know, told me that negotiations occur on a daily basis -- and that's all I'm gonna say. I think it should be noted that in most science-fiction which involves 'aliens' there is a significant attempt (especially on the human side) to 'make friends and play nice'. Often this hospitality degenerates into open warfare -- but at least they tried. Once again, I suspect that I might be some sort of an Ancient Warrior (and perhaps not so ancient). But in this incarnation, I don't even like to swat a fly -- and I'm a lifelong vegetarian and pacifist. On the other hand, I've lately been moving in a more police and military direction -- but only for purposes of maintaining law and order -- rather than wars of conquest and retribution. I don't necessarily like what David Rockefeller and Henry Kissinger have been involved in throughout the years -- yet I would love to have a 'fireside-chat' with both of them. Incidentally, they both have aged rather well. You don't suppose they have access to exotic anti-aging technology or cloning or ???? I keep craving a certain type of political and theological conversation -- which never materializes. I have to depend upon my imagination to generate internal-debate. I think I would've liked to have had extensive discussions with Bill Cooper and Alex Collier -- regardless of their accuracy or lack thereof. They are simply very interesting to listen to. Please watch and listen to everything you can find by these two men -- but take their material with a sea of salt.


    I suspect a mixture of fact and fiction in just about every 'disclosure' individual. I think the decision to disclose was made at the highest levels of governance -- especially when the PTB realized that they'd been 'had'. I suspect this rude awakening occurred in the late 1970's -- but it might've been much earlier than this. All I know is that the theologians and pastors I was around in the 1980's looked like they all had lost everything. But Robert H. Schuller seemed to be 'too happy' -- and that's all I'm gonna say about that. I still think that we can learn a helluva lot from the Stargate movies -- and from Stargate SG-1. I realize that it's just fiction -- yet I think the PTB have been trying to tell us the truth for quite some time -- believe it or not. I suspect that disclosure and the infowar will devastate this world at least through 2020 -- but I think this is an essential but painful process. I have no idea if the dangerous mixture of politics and religion in a United States of the Solar System would work or not. It would really depend on what the most powerful humans and other-than-humans did or didn't do. I poke and prod the Jesuits -- yet there is an aspect of that order which should probably be incorporated into solar system governance -- notably education, organization, discipline, sense of place, etc. Perhaps I should take a closer look at Georgetown and Fordham -- if you know what I mean. I have suggested the possibility of a system of schools called the University of Solar System Studies and Governance. I suspect that the Roman Catholic Church has more to do with how this solar system is run than most people think -- but I think most people would be shocked by who I think might issue orders to the universal church. I guess I'm trying to reform the church -- rather than destroy it. I would like to see the church emerge from this present madness Much Stronger that it is presently. But really, when it comes to politics and religion -- I try to be everyone's friend -- which makes me everyone's enemy. I will continue to attempt to be on everyone's side -- even if it completely destroys me -- which is why I like the idea of being a philosopher-observer rather than being some sort of an egotistical-general -- if you know what I mean. My 'walk on the wild-side' should NOT be interpreted as being a rejection of Biblical-Christianity -- but my conclusions and interpretations are VERY different than the 'official and approved version'. I simply think we need a Solar System View of Life, the Universe, and Everything -- rather than a Sterile and Isolated Biblical Worldview (which works well in church -- but not in the 'real' world).

    Check out this vintage sci-fi movie The Astronaut (1972)! (Government officials, not wanting to have the space program canceled, substitute a lookalike for an astronaut who died on a Mars mission. (IMDB)) You know, I don't even want to talk about this stuff in public (in the 'real-world'). It's just a science-fictional mind-game to me. Some of us need to do this sort of thing -- but not all of us. We probably need Believers, Atheists, Agnostics, and Completely Ignorant Fools. It takes all kinds. I guess I like the idea of researching all of the crazy and upsetting stuff -- and then saying and doing very little. I think we change things -- just by knowing. I communicate my feelings and perceptions online -- yet probably no more than a dozen humans and other-than-humans view my material on a regular basis -- and this is probably as it should be -- especially when my theories are so radical -- and my life is such a mess. I swear that if I felt better that I would be a 'model citizen' -- whatever the hell that really means. I also swear that if I were an 'insider' I'd spend 90% of my time in that Room Without a View -- mostly researching and writing -- publicly and privately. I have NO idea what I'm talking about or dealing with -- but it's sort of fun and sort of terrifying to try to figure things out -- and to attempt to make things better -- even if this tempest in a teapot accomplishes absolutely nothing. In the final analysis Greed, Fear, and the Bottom-Line will probably drive the evolution of Humanity and This Solar System into the distant future -- as harsh as that sounds. Some things never change. The Horror.
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Bill_cooper
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Tumblr_m68i8g8Jqe1qe9jcto1_1280
    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Alex_collier

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    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:47 pm

    Here's yet another study-list (which is similar to those I've already posted):

    1. The Latin Mass.
    2. The 1928 Book of Common Prayer.
    3. Christ: The Experience of Jesus as Lord by Edward Schillabeeckx.
    4. Daniel (1978) by Desmond Ford.
    5. Sacred Classical Music.
    6. The Federalist Papers.

    This is intended as a mental and spiritual exercise -- and should NOT be interpreted as favoritism or meddling. I don't wish to give-up or to circle-the-wagons. I continue to be interested in the concept of Christocentric and/or Archangelicentric Egyptology -- although I am making very little progress in these areas. I'm also interested in how the Latin Mass might relate to the Old Testamental Sacrificial System -- Ceremonies in Ancient Egypt -- and to Antedeluvian and/or Pre-Human Religious Ceremonies. Look for references in sacred scripture regarding 'Liturgy', 'Soteriology', and 'Law of God'. I don't really practice what I preach -- but I'm trying. One of these days I might get my act together -- but don't hold your breath. Just make sure that you have YOUR act together. Consider the following descriptions of Lucifer, Satan, Sin, Rebellion, and Conflict in Heaven. The Horror.

    Why was Sin Permitted? - from 'Patriarchs and Prophets' by Ellen White

    "GOD is love." 1 John 4:16. His nature, His law, is love. It ever has been; it ever will be. "The high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity," whose "ways are everlasting," changeth not. With Him "is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." Isaiah 57:15; Habakkuk 3:6; James 1:17.

    Every manifestation of creative power is an expression of infinite love. The sovereignty of God involves fullness of blessing to all created beings. The psalmist says:

    "Strong is Thy hand, and high is Thy right hand.
    Righteousness and judgment are the foundation of Thy throne:
    Mercy and truth go before Thy face.
    Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound:
    They walk, O Lord, in the light of Thy countenance.
    In Thy name do they rejoice all the day:
    And in Thy righteousness are they exalted.
    For Thou art the glory of their strength: . . .
    or our shield belongeth unto Jehovah,
    And our king to the Holy One."
    Psalm 89:13-18, R.V.

    The history of the great conflict between good and evil, from the time it first began in heaven to the final overthrow of rebellion and the total eradication of sin, is also a demonstration of God's unchanging love. The Sovereign of the universe was not alone in His work of beneficence. He had an associate--a co-worker who could appreciate His purposes, and could share His joy in giving happiness to created beings. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:1, 2. Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father--one in nature, in character, in purpose--the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. "His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6. His "goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." Micah 5:2. And the Son of God declares concerning Himself: "The Lord possessed Me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. I was set up from everlasting. . . . When He appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by Him, as one brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him." Proverbs 8:22-30.

    The Father wrought by His Son in the creation of all heavenly beings. "By Him were all things created, . . . whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him." Colossians 1:16. Angels are God's ministers, radiant with the light ever flowing from His presence and speeding on rapid wing to execute His will. But the Son, the anointed of God, the "express image of His person," "the brightness of His glory," "upholding all things by the word of His power," holds supremacy over them all. Hebrews 1:3. "A glorious high throne from the beginning," was the place of His sanctuary (Jeremiah 17:12); "a scepter of righteousness," the scepter of His kingdom. Hebrews 1:8. "Honor and majesty are before Him: strength and beauty are in His sanctuary." Psalm 96:6. Mercy and truth go before His face. Psalm 89:14.

    The law of love being the foundation of the government of God, the happiness of all intelligent beings depends upon their perfect accord with its great principles of righteousness. God desires from all His creatures the service of love--service that springs from an appreciation of His character. He takes no pleasure in a forced obedience; and to all He grants freedom of will, that they may render Him voluntary service. So long as all created beings acknowledged the allegiance of love, there was perfect harmony throughout the universe of God. It was the joy of the heavenly host to fulfill the purpose of their Creator. They delighted in reflecting His glory and showing forth His praise. And while love to God was supreme, love for one another was confiding and unselfish. There was no note of discord to mar the celestial harmonies. But a change came over this happy state. There was one who perverted the freedom that God had granted to His creatures. Sin originated with him who, next to Christ, had been most honored of God and was highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven. Lucifer, "son of the morning," was first of the covering cherubs, holy and undefiled. He stood in the presence of the great Creator, and the ceaseless beams of glory enshrouding the eternal God rested upon him. "Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering. . . . Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." Ezekiel 28:12-15.

    Little by little Lucifer came to indulge the desire for self-exaltation. The Scripture says, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness." Ezekiel 28:17. "Thou hast said in thine heart, . . . I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. . . . I will be like the Most High." Isaiah 14:13, 14. Though all his glory was from God, this mighty angel came to regard it as pertaining to himself. Not content with his position, though honored above the heavenly host, he ventured to covet homage due alone to the Creator. Instead of seeking to make God supreme in the affections and allegiance of all created beings, it was his endeavor to secure their service and loyalty to himself. And coveting the glory with which the infinite Father had invested His Son, this prince of angels aspired to power that was the prerogative of Christ alone.

    Now the perfect harmony of heaven was broken. Lucifer's disposition to serve himself instead of his Creator aroused a feeling of apprehension when observed by those who considered that the glory of God should be supreme. In heavenly council the angels pleaded with Lucifer. The Son of God presented before him the greatness, the goodness, and the justice of the Creator, and the sacred, unchanging nature of His law. God Himself had established the order of heaven; and in departing from it, Lucifer would dishonor his Maker and bring ruin upon himself. But the warning, given in infinite love and mercy, only aroused a spirit of resistance. Lucifer allowed his jealousy of Christ to prevail, and became the more determined.

    To dispute the supremacy of the Son of God, thus impeaching the wisdom and love of the Creator, had become the purpose of this prince of angels. To this object he was about to bend the energies of that master mind, which, next to Christ's, was first among the hosts of God. But He who would have the will of all His creatures free, left none unguarded to the bewildering sophistry by which rebellion would seek to justify itself. Before the great contest should open, all were to have a clear presentation of His will, whose wisdom and goodness were the spring of all their joy.

    The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father's throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both. About the throne gathered the holy angels, a vast, unnumbered throng--"ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands" (Revelation 5:11.), the most exalted angels, as ministers and subjects, rejoicing in the light that fell upon them from the presence of the Deity. Before the assembled inhabitants of heaven the King declared that none but Christ, the Only Begotten of God, could fully enter into His purposes, and to Him it was committed to execute the mighty counsels of His will. The Son of God had wrought the Father's will in the creation of all the hosts of heaven; and to Him, as well as to God, their homage and allegiance were due. Christ was still to exercise divine power, in the creation of the earth and its inhabitants. But in all this He would not seek power or exaltation for Himself contrary to God's plan, but would exalt the Father's glory and execute His purposes of beneficence and love.

    The angels joyfully acknowledged the supremacy of Christ, and prostrating themselves before Him, poured out their love and adoration. Lucifer bowed with them, but in his heart there was a strange, fierce conflict. Truth, justice, and loyalty were struggling against envy and jealousy. The influence of the holy angels seemed for a time to carry him with them. As songs of praise ascended in melodious strains, swelled by thousands of glad voices, the spirit of evil seemed vanquished; unutterable love thrilled his entire being; his soul went out, in harmony with the sinless worshippers, in love to the Father and the Son. But again he was filled with pride in his own glory. His desire for supremacy returned, and envy of Christ was once more indulged. The high honors conferred upon Lucifer were not appreciated as God's special gift, and therefore, called forth no gratitude to his Creator. He glorified in his brightness and exaltation and aspired to be equal with God. He was beloved and reverenced by the heavenly host, angels delighted to execute his commands, and he was clothed with wisdom and glory above them all. Yet the Son of God was exalted above him, as one in power and authority with the Father. He shared the Father's counsels, while Lucifer did not thus enter into the purposes of God. "Why," questioned this mighty angel, "should Christ have the supremacy? Why is He honored above Lucifer?"

    Leaving his place in the immediate presence of the Father, Lucifer went forth to diffuse the spirit of discontent among the angels. He worked with mysterious secrecy, and for a time concealed his real purpose under an appearance of reverence for God. He began to insinuate doubts concerning the laws that governed heavenly beings, intimating that though laws might be necessary for the inhabitants of the worlds, angels, being more exalted, needed no such restraint, for their own wisdom was a sufficient guide. They were not beings that could bring dishonor to God; all their thoughts were holy; it was no more possible for them than for God Himself to err. The exaltation of the Son of God as equal with the Father was represented as an injustice to Lucifer, who, it was claimed, was also entitled to reverence and honor. If this prince of angels could but attain to his true, exalted position, great good would accrue to the entire host of heaven; for it was his object to secure freedom for all. But now even the liberty which they had hitherto enjoyed was at an end; for an absolute Ruler had been appointed them, and to His authority all must pay homage. Such were the subtle deceptions that through the wiles of Lucifer were fast obtaining in the heavenly courts.

    There had been no change in the position or authority of Christ. Lucifer's envy and misrepresentation and his claims to equality with Christ had made necessary a statement of the true position of the Son of God; but this had been the same from the beginning. Many of the angels were, however, blinded by Lucifer's deceptions.

    Taking advantage of the loving, loyal trust reposed in him by the holy beings under his command, he had so artfully instilled into their minds his own distrust and discontent that his agency was not discerned. Lucifer had presented the purposes of God in a false light--misconstruing and distorting them to excite dissent and dissatisfaction. He cunningly drew his hearers on to give utterance to their feelings; then these expressions were repeated by him when it would serve his purpose, as evidence that the angels were not fully in harmony with the government of God. While claiming for himself perfect loyalty to God, he urged that changes in the order and laws of heaven were necessary for the stability of the divine government. Thus while working to excite opposition to the law of God and to instill his own discontent into the minds of the angels under him, he was ostensibly seeking to remove dissatisfaction and to reconcile disaffected angels to the order of heaven. While secretly fomenting discord and rebellion, he with consummate craft caused it to appear as his sole purpose to promote loyalty and to preserve harmony and peace.

    The spirit of dissatisfaction thus kindled was doing its baleful work. While there was no open outbreak, division of feeling imperceptibly grew up among the angels. There were some who looked with favor upon Lucifer's insinuations against the government of God. Although they had heretofore been in perfect harmony with the order which God had established, they were now discontented and unhappy because they could not penetrate His unsearchable counsels; they were dissatisfied with His purpose in exalting Christ. These stood ready to second Lucifer's demand for equal authority with the Son of God. But angels who were loyal and true maintained the wisdom and justice of he divine decree and endeavored to reconcile this disaffected being to the will of God. Christ was the Son of God; He had been one with Him before the angels were called into existence. He had ever stood at the right hand of the Father; His supremacy, so full of blessing to all who came under its benignant control, had not heretofore been questioned. The harmony of heaven had never been interrupted; wherefore should there now be discord? The loyal angels could see only terrible consequences from this dissension, and with earnest entreaty they counseled the disaffected ones to renounce their purpose and prove themselves loyal to God by fidelity to His government.

    In great mercy, according to His divine character, God bore long with Lucifer. The spirit of discontent and disaffection had never before been known in heaven. It was a new element, strange, mysterious, unaccountable. Lucifer himself had not at first been acquainted with the real nature of his feelings; for a time he had feared to express the workings and imaginings of his mind; yet he did not dismiss them. He did not see whither he was drifting. But such efforts as infinite love and wisdom only could devise, were made to convince him of his error. His disaffection was proved to be without cause, and he was made to see what would be the result of persisting in revolt. Lucifer was convinced that he was in the wrong. He saw that "the Lord is righteous in all His ways, and holy in all His works" (Psalm 145:17); that the divine statutes are just, and that he ought to acknowledge them as such before all heaven. Had he done this, he might have saved himself and many angels. He had not at that time fully cast off his allegiance to God. Though he had left his position as covering cherub, yet if he had been willing to return to God, acknowledging the Creator's wisdom, and satisfied to fill the place appointed him in God's great plan, he would have been reinstated in his office. The time had come for a final decision; he must fully yield to the divine sovereignty or place himself in open rebellion. He nearly reached the decision to return, but pride forbade him. It was too great a sacrifice for one who had been so highly honored to confess that he had been in error, that his imaginings were false, and to yield to the authority which he had been working to prove unjust.

    A compassionate Creator, in yearning pity for Lucifer and his followers, was seeking to draw them back from the abyss of ruin into which they were about to plunge. But His mercy was misinterpreted. Lucifer pointed to the long-suffering of God as an evidence of his own superiority, an indication that the King of the universe would yet accede to his terms. If the angels would stand firmly with him, he declared, they could yet gain all that they desired. He persistently defended his own course, and fully committed himself to the great controversy against his Maker. Thus it was that Lucifer, "the light bearer," the sharer of God's glory, the attendant of His throne, by transgression became Satan, "the adversary" of God and holy beings and the destroyer of those whom Heaven had committed to his guidance and guardianship.

    Rejecting with disdain the arguments and entreaties of the loyal angels, he denounced them as deluded slaves. The preference shown to Christ he declared an act of injustice both to himself and to all the heavenly host, and announced that he would no longer submit to this invasion of his rights and theirs. He would never again acknowledge the supremacy of Christ. He had determined to claim the honor which should have been given him, and take command of all who would become his followers; and he promised those would enter his ranks a new and better government, under which all would enjoy freedom. Great numbers of the angels signified their purpose to accept him as their leader. Flattered by the favor with which his advances were received, he hoped to win all the angels to his side, to become equal with God Himself, and to be obeyed by the entire host of heaven.

    Still the loyal angels urged him and his sympathizers to submit to God; and they set before them the inevitable result should they refuse: He who had created them could overthrow their power and signally punish their rebellious daring. No angel could successfully oppose the law of God, which was as sacred as Himself. They warned all to close their ears against Lucifer's deceptive reasoning, and urged him and his followers to seek the presence of God without delay and confess the error of questioning His wisdom and authority.

    Many were disposed to heed this counsel, to repent of their disaffection, and seek to be again received into favor with the Father and His Son. But Lucifer had another deception ready. The mighty revolter now declared that the angels who had united with him had gone too far to return; that he was acquainted with the divine law, and knew that God would not forgive. He declared that all who should submit to the authority of Heaven would be stripped of their honor, degraded from their position. For himself, he was determined never again to acknowledge the authority of Christ. The only course remaining for him and his followers, he said, was to assert their liberty, and gain by force the rights which had not been willingly accorded them.

    So far as Satan himself was concerned, it was true that he had now gone too far to return. But not so with those who had been blinded by his deceptions. To them the counsel and entreaties of the loyal angels opened a door of hope; and had they heeded the warning, they might have broken away from the snare of Satan. But pride, love for their leader, and the desire for unrestricted freedom were permitted to bear sway, and the pleadings of divine love and mercy were finally rejected.

    God permitted Satan to carry forward his work until the spirit of disaffection ripened into active revolt. It was necessary for his plans to be fully developed, that their true nature and tendency might be seen by all. Lucifer, as the anointed cherub, had been highly exalted; he was greatly loved by the heavenly beings, and his influence over them was strong. God's government included not only the inhabitants of heaven, but of all the worlds that He had created; and Lucifer had concluded that if he could carry the angels of heaven with him in rebellion, he could carry also all the worlds. He had artfully presented his side of the question, employing sophistry and fraud to secure his objects. His power to deceive was very great. By disguising himself in a cloak of falsehood, he had gained an advantage. All his acts were so clothed with mystery that it was difficult to disclose to the angels the true nature of his work. Until fully developed, it could not be made to appear the evil thing it was; his disaffection would not be seen to be rebellion. Even the loyal angels could not fully discern his character or see to what his work was leading.

    Lucifer had at first so conducted his temptations that he himself stood uncommitted. The angels whom he could not bring fully to his side, he accused of indifference to the interests of heavenly beings. The very work which he himself was doing, he charged upon the loyal angels. It was his policy to perplex with subtle arguments concerning the purposes of God. Everything that was simple he shrouded in mystery, and by artful perversion cast doubt upon the plainest statements of Jehovah. And his high position, so closely connected with the divine government, gave greater force to his representations.

    God could employ only such means as were consistent with truth and righteousness. Satan could use what God could not-- flattery and deceit. He had sought to falsify the word of God and had misrepresented His plan of government, claiming that God was not just in imposing laws upon the angels; that in requiring submission and obedience from His creatures, He was seeking merely the exaltation of Himself. It was therefore necessary to demonstrate before the inhabitants of heaven, and of all the worlds, that God's government is just, His law perfect. Satan had made it appear that he himself was seeking to promote the good of the universe. The true character of the usurper and his real object must be understood by all. He must have time to manifest himself by his wicked works.

    The discord which his own course had caused in heaven, Satan charged upon the government of God. All evil he declared to be the result of the divine administration. He claimed that it was his own object to improve upon the statutes of Jehovah. Therefore God permitted him to demonstrate the nature of his claims, to show the working out of his proposed changes in the divine law. His own work must condemn him. Satan had claimed from the first that he was not in rebellion. The whole universe must see deceiver unmasked.

    Even when he was cast out of heaven. Infinite Wisdom did not destroy Satan. Since only the service of love can be acceptable to God, the allegiance of His creatures must rest upon a conviction of His justice and benevolence. The inhabitants of heaven and of the worlds, being unprepared to comprehend the nature or consequences of sin, could not then have seen the justice of God in the destruction of Satan. Had he been immediately blotted out of existence, some would have served God from fear rather than from love. The influence of the deceiver would not have been fully destroyed, nor would be the spirit of rebellion have been utterly eradicated. For the good of the entire universe through ceaseless ages, he must more fully developed his principles, that his charges against the divine government might be seen in their true light by all created beings, and that the justice and mercy of God and the immutability of His law might be forever placed beyond all question.

    Satan's rebellion was to be a lesson to the universe through all coming ages--a perpetual testimony to the nature of sin and its terrible results. The working out of Satan's rule, its effects upon both men and angels, would show what must be the fruit of setting aside the divine authority. It would testify that with the existence of God's government is bound up the well-being of all the creatures He has made. Thus the history of this terrible experiment of rebellion was to be a perpetual safeguard to all holy beings, to prevent them from being deceived as to the nature of transgression, to save them from committing sin, and suffering its penalty.

    He that ruleth in the heavens is the one who sees the end from the beginning--the one before whom the mysteries of the past and the future are alike outspread, and who, beyond the woe and darkness and ruin that sin has wrought, beholds the accomplishment of His own purposes of love and blessing. Though "clouds and darkness are round about Him: righteousness and judgment are the foundation of His throne." Psalm 97:2, R.V. And this the inhabitants of the universe, both loyal and disloyal, will one day understand. "His work is perfect: for all His ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is He." Deuteronomy 32:4.

    PAPER 53: THE LUCIFER REBELLION - from The Urantia Book

    53:0.1 Lucifer was a brilliant primary Lanonandek Son of Nebadon. He had experienced service in many systems, had been a high counselor of his group, and was distinguished for wisdom, sagacity, and efficiency. Lucifer was number 37 of his order, and when commissioned by the Melchizedeks, he was designated as one of the one hundred most able and brilliant personalities in more than seven hundred thousand of his kind. From such a magnificent beginning, through evil and error, he embraced sin and now is numbered as one of three System Sovereigns in Nebadon who have succumbed to the urge of self and surrendered to the sophistry of spurious personal liberty—rejection of universe allegiance and disregard of fraternal obligations, blindness to cosmic relationships.
    53:0.2 In the universe of Nebadon, the domain of Christ Michael, there are ten thousand systems of inhabited worlds. In all the history of Lanonandek Sons, in all their work throughout these thousands of systems and at the universe headquarters, only three System Sovereigns have ever been found in contempt of the government of the Creator Son.
    53:1.1 Lucifer was not an ascendant being; he was a created Son of the local universe, and of him it was said: " You were perfect in all your ways from the day you were created till unrighteousness was found in you. " Many times had he been in counsel with the Most Highs of Edentia. And Lucifer reigned " upon the holy mountain of God, " the administrative mount of Jerusem, for he was the chief executive of a great system of 607 inhabited worlds.
    53:1.2 Lucifer was a magnificent being, a brilliant personality; he stood next to the Most High Fathers of the constellations in the direct line of universe authority. Notwithstanding Lucifer's transgression, subordinate intelligences refrained from showing him disrespect and disdain prior to Michael's bestowal on Urantia. Even the archangel of Michael, at the time of Moses' resurrection, " did not bring against him an accusing judgment but simply said, `the Judge rebuke you.' " Judgment in such matters belongs to the Ancients of Days, the rulers of the superuniverse.
    53:1.3 Lucifer is now the fallen and deposed Sovereign of Satania. Self-contemplation is most disastrous, even to the exalted personalities of the celestial world. Of Lucifer it was said: " Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your brightness. " Your olden prophet saw his sad estate when he wrote: " How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds! "
    53:1.4 Very little was heard of Lucifer on Urantia owing to the fact that he assigned his first lieutenant, Satan, to advocate his cause on your planet. Satan was a member of the same primary group of Lanonandeks but had never functioned as a System Sovereign; he entered fully into the Lucifer insurrection. The " devil " is none other than Caligastia, the deposed Planetary Prince of Urantia and a Son of the secondary order of Lanonandeks. At the time Michael was on Urantia in the flesh, Lucifer, Satan, and Caligastia were leagued together to effect the miscarriage of his bestowal mission. But they signally failed.
    53:1.5 Abaddon was the chief of the staff of Caligastia. He followed his master into rebellion and has ever since acted as chief executive of the Urantia rebels. Beelzebub was the leader of the disloyal midway creatures who allied themselves with the forces of the traitorous Caligastia.
    53:1.6 The dragon eventually became the symbolic representation of all these evil personages. Upon the triumph of Michael, " Gabriel came down from Salvington and bound the dragon (all the rebel leaders) for an age. " Of the Jerusem seraphic rebels it is written: " And the angels who kept not their first estate but left their own habitation, he has reserved in sure chains of darkness to the judgment of the great day. "

    53:2.1 Lucifer and his first assistant, Satan, had reigned on Jerusem for more than five hundred thousand years when in their hearts they began to array themselves against the Universal Father and his then vicegerent Son, Michael.
    53:2.2 There were no peculiar or special conditions in the system of Satania which suggested or favored rebellion. It is our belief that the idea took origin and form in Lucifer's mind, and that he might have instigated such a rebellion no matter where he might have been stationed. Lucifer first announced his plans to Satan, but it required several months to corrupt the mind of his able and brilliant associate. However, when once converted to the rebel theories, he became a bold and earnest advocate of " self-assertion and liberty. "
    53:2.3 No one ever suggested rebellion to Lucifer. The idea of self-assertion in opposition to the will of Michael and to the plans of the Universal Father, as they are represented in Michael, had its origin in his own mind. His relations with the Creator Son had been intimate and always cordial. At no time prior to the exaltation of his own mind did Lucifer openly express dissatisfaction about the universe administration. Notwithstanding his silence, for more than one hundred years of standard time the Union of Days on Salvington had been reflectivating to Uversa that all was not at peace in Lucifer's mind. This information was also communicated to the Creator Son and the Constellation Fathers of Norlatiadek.
    53:2.4 Throughout this period Lucifer became increasingly critical of the entire plan of universe administration but always professed wholehearted loyalty to the Supreme Rulers. His first outspoken disloyalty was manifested on the occasion of a visit of Gabriel to Jerusem just a few days before the open proclamation of the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. Gabriel was so profoundly impressed with the certainty of the impending outbreak that he went direct to Edentia to confer with the Constellation Fathers regarding the measures to be employed in case of open rebellion.
    53:2.5 It is very difficult to point out the exact cause or causes which finally culminated in the Lucifer rebellion. We are certain of only one thing, and that is: Whatever these first beginnings were, they had their origin in Lucifer's mind. There must have been a pride of self that nourished itself to the point of self-deception, so that Lucifer for a time really persuaded himself that his contemplation of rebellion was actually for the good of the system, if not of the universe. By the time his plans had developed to the point of disillusionment, no doubt he had gone too far for his original and mischief-making pride to permit him to stop. At some point in this experience he became insincere, and evil evolved into deliberate and willful sin. That this happened is proved by the subsequent conduct of this brilliant executive. He was long offered opportunity for repentance, but only some of his subordinates ever accepted the proffered mercy. The Faithful of Days of Edentia, on the request of the Constellation Fathers, in person presented the plan of Michael for the saving of these flagrant rebels, but always was the mercy of the Creator Son rejected and rejected with increasing contempt and disdain.
    Bible References

    53:3.1 Whatever the early origins of trouble in the hearts of Lucifer and Satan, the final outbreak took form as the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The cause of the rebels was stated under three heads:
    53:3.2 1. The reality of the Universal Father. Lucifer charged that the Universal Father did not really exist, that physical gravity and space-energy were inherent in the universe, and that the Father was a myth invented by the Paradise Sons to enable them to maintain the rule of the universes in the Father's name. He denied that personality was a gift of the Universal Father. He even intimated that the finaliters were in collusion with the Paradise Sons to foist fraud upon all creation since they never brought back a very clear-cut idea of the Father's actual personality as it is discernible on Paradise. He traded on reverence as ignorance. The charge was sweeping, terrible, and blasphemous. It was this veiled attack upon the finaliters that no doubt influenced the ascendant citizens then on Jerusem to stand firm and remain steadfast in resistance to all the rebel's proposals.
    53:3.3 2. The universe government of the Creator Son—Michael. Lucifer contended that the local systems should be autonomous. He protested against the right of Michael, the Creator Son, to assume sovereignty of Nebadon in the name of a hypothetical Paradise Father and require all personalities to acknowledge allegiance to this unseen Father. He asserted that the whole plan of worship was a clever scheme to aggrandize the Paradise Sons. He was willing to acknowledge Michael as his Creator-father but not as his God and rightful ruler.
    53:3.4 Most bitterly did he attack the right of the Ancients of Days—" foreign potentates "—to interfere in the affairs of the local systems and universes. These rulers he denounced as tyrants and usurpers. He exhorted his followers to believe that none of these rulers could do aught to interfere with the operation of complete home rule if men and angels only had the courage to assert themselves and boldly claim their rights.
    53:3.5 He contended that the executioners of the Ancients of Days could be debarred from functioning in the local systems if the native beings would only assert their independence. He maintained that immortality was inherent in the system personalities, that resurrection was natural and automatic, and that all beings would live eternally except for the arbitrary and unjust acts of the executioners of the Ancients of Days.
    53:3.6 3. The attack upon the universal plan of ascendant mortal training. Lucifer maintained that far too much time and energy were expended upon the scheme of so thoroughly training ascending mortals in the principles of universe administration, principles which he alleged were unethical and unsound. He protested against the agelong program for preparing the mortals of space for some unknown destiny and pointed to the presence of the finaliter corps on Jerusem as proof that these mortals had spent ages of preparation for some destiny of pure fiction. With derision he pointed out that the finaliters had encountered a destiny no more glorious than to be returned to humble spheres similar to those of their origin. He intimated that they had been debauched by overmuch discipline and prolonged training, and that they were in reality traitors to their mortal fellows since they were now co-operating with the scheme of enslaving all creation to the fictions of a mythical eternal destiny for ascending mortals. He advocated that ascenders should enjoy the liberty of individual self-determination. He challenged and condemned the entire plan of mortal ascension as sponsored by the Paradise Sons of God and supported by the Infinite Spirit.
    53:3.7 And it was with such a Declaration of Liberty that Lucifer launched his orgy of darkness and death.
    Bible References

    53:4.1 The Lucifer manifesto was issued at the annual conclave of Satania on the sea of glass, in the presence of the assembled hosts of Jerusem, on the last day of the year, about two hundred thousand years ago, Urantia time. Satan proclaimed that worship could be accorded the universal forces—physical, intellectual, and spiritual—but that allegiance could be acknowledged only to the actual and present ruler, Lucifer, the " friend of men and angels " and the " God of liberty. "
    53:4.2 Self-assertion was the battle cry of the Lucifer rebellion. One of his chief arguments was that, if self-government was good and right for the Melchizedeks and other groups, it was equally good for all orders of intelligence. He was bold and persistent in the advocacy of the " equality of mind " and " the brotherhood of intelligence. " He maintained that all government should be limited to the local planets and their voluntary confederation into the local systems. All other supervision he disallowed. He promised the Planetary Princes that they should rule the worlds as supreme executives. He denounced the location of legislative activities on the constellation headquarters and the conduct of judicial affairs on the universe capital. He contended that all these functions of government should be concentrated on the system capitals and proceeded to set up his own legislative assembly and organized his own tribunals under the jurisdiction of Satan. And he directed that the princes on the apostate worlds do the same.
    53:4.3 The entire administrative cabinet of Lucifer went over in a body and were sworn in publicly as the officers of the administration of the new head of " the liberated worlds and systems. "
    53:4.4 While there had been two previous rebellions in Nebadon, they were in distant constellations. Lucifer held that these insurrections were unsuccessful because the majority of the intelligences failed to follow their leaders. He contended that " majorities rule, " that " mind is infallible. " The freedom allowed him by the universe rulers apparently sustained many of his nefarious contentions. He defied all his superiors; yet they apparently took no note of his doings. He was given a free hand to prosecute his seductive plan without let or hindrance.
    53:4.5 All the merciful delays of justice Lucifer pointed to as evidence of the inability of the government of the Paradise Sons to stop the rebellion. He would openly defy and arrogantly challenge Michael, Immanuel, and the Ancients of Days and then point to the fact that no action ensued as positive evidence of the impotency of the universe and the superuniverse governments.
    53:4.6 Gabriel was personally present throughout all these disloyal proceedings and only announced that he would, in due time, speak for Michael, and that all beings would be left free and unmolested in their choice; that the " government of the Sons for the Father desired only that loyalty and devotion which was voluntary, wholehearted, and sophistry-proof. "
    53:4.7 Lucifer was permitted fully to establish and thoroughly to organize his rebel government before Gabriel made any effort to contest the right of secession or to counterwork the rebel propaganda. But the Constellation Fathers immediately confined the action of these disloyal personalities to the system of Satania. Nevertheless, this period of delay was a time of great trial and testing to the loyal beings of all Satania. All was chaotic for a few years, and there was great confusion on the mansion worlds.
    Bible References

    53:5.1 Upon the outbreak of the Satania rebellion, Michael took counsel of his Paradise brother, Immanuel. Following this momentous conference, Michael announced that he would pursue the same policy which had characterized his dealings with similar upheavals in the past, an attitude of noninterference.
    53:5.2 At the time of this rebellion and the two which preceded it there was no absolute and personal sovereign authority in the universe of Nebadon. Michael ruled by divine right, as vicegerent of the Universal Father, but not yet in his own personal right. He had not completed his bestowal career; he had not yet been vested with " all power in heaven and on earth. "
    53:5.3 From the outbreak of rebellion to the day of his enthronement as sovereign ruler of Nebadon, Michael never interfered with the rebel forces of Lucifer; they were allowed to run a free course for almost two hundred thousand years of Urantia time. Christ Michael now has ample power and authority to deal promptly, even summarily, with such outbreaks of disloyalty, but we doubt that this sovereign authority would lead him to act differently if another such upheaval should occur.
    53:5.4 Since Michael elected to remain aloof from the actual warfare of the Lucifer rebellion, Gabriel called his personal staff together on Edentia and, in counsel with the Most Highs, elected to assume command of the loyal hosts of Satania. Michael remained on Salvington while Gabriel proceeded to Jerusem, and establishing himself on the sphere dedicated to the Father—the same Universal Father whose personality Lucifer and Satan had questioned—in the presence of the forgathered hosts of loyal personalities, he displayed the banner of Michael, the material emblem of the Trinity government of all creation, the three azure blue concentric circles on a white background.
    53:5.5 The Lucifer emblem was a banner of white with one red circle, in the center of which a black solid circle appeared.
    53:5.6 " There was war in heaven; Michael's commander and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer, Satan, and the apostate princes); and the dragon and his rebellious angels fought but prevailed not. " This " war in heaven " was not a physical battle as such a conflict might be conceived on Urantia. In the early days of the struggle Lucifer held forth continuously in the planetary amphitheater. Gabriel conducted an unceasing exposure of the rebel sophistries from his headquarters taken up near at hand. The various personalities present on the sphere who were in doubt as to their attitude would journey back and forth between these discussions until they arrived at a final decision.
    53:5.7 But this war in heaven was very terrible and very real. While displaying none of the barbarities so characteristic of physical warfare on the immature worlds, this conflict was far more deadly; material life is in jeopardy in material combat, but the war in heaven was fought in terms of life eternal.
    Bible References

    53:6.1 There were many noble and inspiring acts of devotion and loyalty which were performed by numerous personalities during the interim between the outbreak of hostilities and the arrival of the new system ruler and his staff. But the most thrilling of all these daring feats of devotion was the courageous conduct of Manotia, the second in command of the Satania headquarters' seraphim.
    53:6.2 At the outbreak of rebellion on Jerusem the head of the seraphic hosts joined the Lucifer cause. This no doubt explains why such a large number of the fourth order, the system administrator seraphim, went astray. The seraphic leader was spiritually blinded by the brilliant personality of Lucifer; his charming ways fascinated the lower orders of celestial beings. They simply could not comprehend that it was possible for such a dazzling personality to go wrong.
    53:6.3 Not long since, in describing the experiences associated with the onset of the Lucifer rebellion, Manotia said: " But my most exhilarating moment was the thrilling adventure connected with the Lucifer rebellion when, as second seraphic commander, I refused to participate in the projected insult to Michael; and the powerful rebels sought my destruction by means of the liaison forces they had arranged. There was a tremendous upheaval on Jerusem, but not a single loyal seraphim was harmed.
    53:6.4 " Upon the default of my immediate superior it devolved upon me to assume command of the angelic hosts of Jerusem as the titular director of the confused seraphic affairs of the system. I was morally upheld by the Melchizedeks, ably assisted by a majority of the Material Sons, deserted by a tremendous group of my own order, but magnificently supported by the ascendant mortals on Jerusem.
    53:6.5 " Having been automatically thrown out of the constellation circuits by the secession of Lucifer, we were dependent on the loyalty of our intelligence corps, who forwarded calls for help to Edentia from the near-by system of Rantulia; and we found that the kingdom of order, the intellect of loyalty, and the spirit of truth were inherently triumphant over rebellion, self-assertion, and so-called personal liberty; we were able to carry on until the arrival of the new System Sovereign, the worthy successor of Lucifer. And immediately thereafter I was assigned to the corps of the Melchizedek receivership of Urantia, assuming jurisdiction over the loyal seraphic orders on the world of the traitorous Caligastia, who had proclaimed his sphere a member of the newly projected system of `liberated worlds and emancipated personalities' proposed in the infamous Declaration of Liberty issued by Lucifer in his call to the `liberty-loving, free-thinking, and forward-looking intelligences of the misruled and maladministered worlds of Satania.' "
    53:6.6 This angel is still in service on Urantia, functioning as associate chief of seraphim.

    53:7.1 The Lucifer rebellion was system wide. Thirty-seven seceding Planetary Princes swung their world administrations largely to the side of the archrebel. Only on Panoptia did the Planetary Prince fail to carry his people with him. On this world, under the guidance of the Melchizedeks, the people rallied to the support of Michael. Ellanora, a young woman of that mortal realm, grasped the leadership of the human races, and not a single soul on that strife-torn world enlisted under the Lucifer banner. And ever since have these loyal Panoptians served on the seventh Jerusem transition world as the caretakers and builders on the Father's sphere and its surrounding seven detention worlds. The Panoptians not only act as the literal custodians of these worlds, but they also execute the personal orders of Michael for the embellishment of these spheres for some future and unknown use. They do this work as they tarry en route to Edentia.
    53:7.2 Throughout this period Caligastia was advocating the cause of Lucifer on Urantia. The Melchizedeks ably opposed the apostate Planetary Prince, but the sophistries of unbridled liberty and the delusions of self-assertion had every opportunity for deceiving the primitive peoples of a young and undeveloped world.
    53:7.3 All secession propaganda had to be carried on by personal effort because the broadcast service and all other avenues of interplanetary communication were suspended by the action of the system circuit supervisors. Upon the actual outbreak of the insurrection the entire system of Satania was isolated in both the constellation and the universe circuits. During this time all incoming and outgoing messages were dispatched by seraphic agents and Solitary Messengers. The circuits to the fallen worlds were also cut off, so that Lucifer could not utilize this avenue for the furtherance of his nefarious scheme. And these circuits will not be restored so long as the archrebel lives within the confines of Satania.
    53:7.4 This was a Lanonandek rebellion. The higher orders of local universe sonship did not join the Lucifer secession, although a few of the Life Carriers stationed on the rebel planets were somewhat influenced by the rebellion of the disloyal princes. None of the Trinitized Sons went astray. The Melchizedeks, archangels, and the Brilliant Evening Stars were all loyal to Michael and, with Gabriel, valiantly contended for the Father's will and the Son's rule.
    53:7.5 No beings of Paradise origin were involved in disloyalty. Together with the Solitary Messengers they took up headquarters on the world of the Spirit and remained under the leadership of the Faithful of Days of Edentia. None of the conciliators apostatized, nor did a single one of the Celestial Recorders go astray. But a heavy toll was taken of the Morontia Companions and the Mansion World Teachers.
    53:7.6 Of the supreme order of seraphim, not an angel was lost, but a considerable group of the next order, the superior, were deceived and ensnared. Likewise a few of the third or supervisor order of angels were misled. But the terrible breakdown came in the fourth group, the administrator angels, those seraphim who are normally assigned to the duties of the system capitals. Manotia saved almost two thirds of them, but slightly over one third followed their chief into the rebel ranks. One third of all the Jerusem cherubim attached to the administrator angels were lost with their disloyal seraphim.
    53:7.7 Of the planetary angelic helpers, those assigned to the Material Sons, about one third were deceived, and almost ten per cent of the transition ministers were ensnared. In symbol John saw this when he wrote of the great red dragon, saying: " And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven and cast them down in darkness. "
    53:7.8 The greatest loss occurred in the angelic ranks, but most of the lower orders of intelligence were involved in disloyalty. Of the 681,227 Material Sons lost in Satania, ninety-five per cent were casualties of the Lucifer rebellion. Large numbers of midway creatures were lost on those individual planets whose Planetary Princes joined the Lucifer cause.
    53:7.9 In many respects this rebellion was the most widespread and disastrous of all such occurrences in Nebadon. More personalities were involved in this insurrection than in both of the others. And it is to their everlasting dishonor that the emissaries of Lucifer and Satan spared not the infant-training schools on the finaliter cultural planet but rather sought to corrupt these developing minds in mercy salvaged from the evolutionary worlds.
    53:7.10 The ascending mortals were vulnerable, but they withstood the sophistries of rebellion better than the lower spirits. While many on the lower mansion worlds, those who had not attained final fusion with their Adjusters, fell, it is recorded to the glory of the wisdom of the ascension scheme that not a single member of the Satania ascendant citizenship resident on Jerusem participated in the Lucifer rebellion.
    53:7.11 Hour by hour and day by day the broadcast stations of all Nebadon were thronged by the anxious watchers of every imaginable class of celestial intelligence, who intently perused the bulletins of the Satania rebellion and rejoiced as the reports continuously narrated the unswerving loyalty of the ascending mortals who, under their Melchizedek leadership, successfully withstood the combined and protracted efforts of all the subtle evil forces which so swiftly gathered around the banners of secession and sin.
    53:7.12 It was over two years of system time from the beginning of the " war in heaven " until the installation of Lucifer's successor. But at last the new Sovereign came, landing on the sea of glass with his staff. I was among the reserves mobilized on Edentia by Gabriel, and I well remember the first message of Lanaforge to the Constellation Father of Norlatiadek. It read: " Not a single Jerusem citizen was lost. Every ascendant mortal survived the fiery trial and emerged from the crucial test triumphant and altogether victorious. " And on to Salvington, Uversa, and Paradise went this message of assurance that the survival experience of mortal ascension is the greatest security against rebellion and the surest safeguard against sin. This noble Jerusem band of faithful mortals numbered just 187,432,811.
    53:7.13 With the arrival of Lanaforge the archrebels were dethroned and shorn of all governing powers, though they were permitted freely to go about Jerusem, the morontia spheres, and even to the individual inhabited worlds. They continued their deceptive and seductive efforts to confuse and mislead the minds of men and angels. But as concerned their work on the administrative mount of Jerusem, " their place was found no more. "
    53:7.14 While Lucifer was deprived of all administrative authority in Satania, there then existed no local universe power nor tribunal which could detain or destroy this wicked rebel; at that time Michael was not a sovereign ruler. The Ancients of Days sustained the Constellation Fathers in their seizure of the system government, but they have never handed down any subsequent decisions in the many appeals still pending with regard to the present status and future disposition of Lucifer, Satan, and their associates.
    53:7.15 Thus were these archrebels allowed to roam the entire system to seek further penetration for their doctrines of discontent and self-assertion. But in almost two hundred thousand Urantia years they have been unable to deceive another world. No Satania worlds have been lost since the fall of the thirty-seven, not even those younger worlds peopled since that day of rebellion.
    Bible References

    53:8.1 Lucifer and Satan freely roamed the Satania system until the completion of the bestowal mission of Michael on Urantia. They were last on your world together during the time of their combined assault upon the Son of Man.
    53:8.2 Formerly, when the Planetary Princes, the " Sons of God, " were periodically assembled, " Satan came also, " claiming that he represented all of the isolated worlds of the fallen Planetary Princes. But he has not been accorded such liberty on Jerusem since Michael's terminal bestowal. Subsequent to their effort to corrupt Michael when in the bestowal flesh, all sympathy for Lucifer and Satan has perished throughout all Satania, that is, outside the isolated worlds of sin.
    53:8.3 The bestowal of Michael terminated the Lucifer rebellion in all Satania aside from the planets of the apostate Planetary Princes. And this was the significance of Jesus' personal experience, just before his death in the flesh, when he one day exclaimed to his disciples, " And I beheld Satan fall as lightning from heaven. " He had come with Lucifer to Urantia for the last crucial struggle.
    53:8.4 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, " Get you behind me, Satan. " That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.
    53:8.5 Caligastia was recognized by the Son of Man as the technical Prince of Urantia up to near the time of his death. Said Jesus: " Now is the judgment of this world; now shall the prince of this world be cast down. " And then still nearer the completion of his lifework he announced, " The prince of this world is judged. " And it is this same dethroned and discredited Prince who was once termed " God of Urantia. "
    53:8.6 The last act of Michael before leaving Urantia was to offer mercy to Caligastia and Daligastia, but they spurned his tender proffer. Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked presence.
    53:8.7 Before the bestowal of Michael these rulers of darkness sought to maintain their authority on Urantia, and they persistently withstood the minor and subordinate celestial personalities. But since the day of Pentecost this traitorous Caligastia and his equally contemptible associate, Daligastia, are servile before the divine majesty of the Paradise Thought Adjusters and the protective Spirit of Truth, the spirit of Michael, which has been poured out upon all flesh.
    53:8.8 But even so, no fallen spirit ever did have the power to invade the minds or to harass the souls of the children of God. Neither Satan nor Caligastia could ever touch or approach the faith sons of God; faith is an effective armor against sin and iniquity. It is true: " He who is born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one touches him not. "
    53:8.9 In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.
    Bible References

    53:9.1 Early in the days of the Lucifer rebellion, salvation was offered all rebels by Michael. To all who would show proof of sincere repentance, he offered, upon his attainment of complete universe sovereignty, forgiveness and reinstatement in some form of universe service. None of the leaders accepted this merciful proffer. But thousands of the angels and the lower orders of celestial beings, including hundreds of the Material Sons and Daughters, accepted the mercy proclaimed by the Panoptians and were given rehabilitation at the time of Jesus' resurrection nineteen hundred years ago. These beings have since been transferred to the Father's world of Jerusem, where they must be held, technically, until the Uversa courts hand down a decision in the matter of Gabriel vs. Lucifer. But no one doubts that, when the annihilation verdict is issued, these repentant and salvaged personalities will be exempted from the decree of extinction. These probationary souls now labor with the Panoptians in the work of caring for the Father's world.
    53:9.2 The archdeceiver has never been on Urantia since the days when he sought to turn back Michael from the purpose to complete the bestowal and to establish himself finally and securely as the unqualified ruler of Nebadon. Upon Michael's becoming the settled head of the universe of Nebadon, Lucifer was taken into custody by the agents of the Uversa Ancients of Days and has since been a prisoner on satellite number one of the Father's group of the transition spheres of Jerusem. And here the rulers of other worlds and systems behold the end of the unfaithful Sovereign of Satania. Paul knew of the status of these rebellious leaders following Michael's bestowal, for he wrote of Caligastia' s chiefs as " spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. "
    53:9.3 Michael, upon assuming the supreme sovereignty of Nebadon, petitioned the Ancients of Days for authority to intern all personalities concerned in the Lucifer rebellion pending the rulings of the superuniverse tribunals in the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer, placed on the records of the Uversa supreme court almost two hundred thousand years ago, as you reckon time. Concerning the system capital group, the Ancients of Days granted the Michael petition with but a single exception: Satan was allowed to make periodic visits to the apostate princes on the fallen worlds until another Son of God should be accepted by such apostate worlds, or until such time as the courts of Uversa should begin the adjudication of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer.
    53:9.4 Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations, when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel's plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.
    53:9.5 Since Michael's final bestowal no one in all Satania has desired to go to the prison worlds to minister to the interned rebels. And no more beings have been won to the deceiver's cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged.
    53:9.6 We do not look for a removal of the present Satania restrictions until the Ancients of Days make final disposition of the archrebels. The system circuits will not be reinstated so long as Lucifer lives. Meantime, he is wholly inactive.
    53:9.7 The rebellion has ended on Jerusem. It ends on the fallen worlds as fast as divine Sons arrive. We believe that all rebels who will ever accept mercy have done so. We await the flashing broadcast that will deprive these traitors of personality existence. We anticipate the verdict of Uversa will be announced by the executionary broadcast which will effect the annihilation of these interned rebels. Then will you look for their places, but they shall not be found. " And they who know you among the worlds will be astonished at you; you have been a terror, but never shall you be any more. " And thus shall all of these unworthy traitors " become as though they had not been. " All await the Uversa decree.
    53:9.8 But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth " that the way of the transgressor is hard "; " that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction "; that " the wages of sin is death."

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    The University of Solar System Studies - Page 3 Empty Re: The University of Solar System Studies

    Post  orthodoxymoron Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:50 pm

    I wish to emphasize that I do NOT believe (or approve of) everything I post. This thread is intended as a mental and spiritual workout. I feel very uncomfortable with a lot of what I post. I had hoped that there would be a lot of discussion -- but there has been relatively little. In fact, in many cases, there seems to be sort of a boycott. I sometimes feel as if I've been blackballed. Once, when I joked "Thou Shalt NOT Talk to orthodoxymoron" everyone seemed to line-up to post something (seemingly in defiance of what I said). It was probably just a case of Joke v Joke -- but it still seemed a bit creepy to me. We seem to be in a Cold-War in Heaven -- but will we soon be in the middle of yet another Open and Hot War in Heaven?? I really wonder. I do NOT want this to happen -- and perhaps I have been too open, honest, and conciliatory. I frankly don't know which way to jump. Those in the know -- don't seem to want me to know -- or so it seems. I applied for an NSA FoIA over half a year ago -- with no response. Perhaps I should apply to each and every agency -- and write my representatives -- to learn what's been going on behind my back -- and who I really am. I get the feeling that neither the good-guys or the bad-guys -- the humans or the other than humans -- want me to know the truth about me. Anyway, I will continue to be interested in Archangelic Intrigue -- Real and Imagined.


    54:0.1 Evolutionary man finds it difficult fully to comprehend the significance and to grasp the meanings of evil, error, sin, and iniquity. Man is slow to perceive that contrastive perfection and imperfection produce potential evil; that conflicting truth and falsehood create confusing error; that the divine endowment of freewill choice eventuates in the divergent realms of sin and righteousness; that the persistent pursuit of divinity leads to the kingdom of God as contrasted with its continuous rejection, which leads to the domains of iniquity.
    54:0.2 The Gods neither create evil nor permit sin and rebellion. Potential evil is time-existent in a universe embracing differential levels of perfection meanings and values. Sin is potential in all realms where imperfect beings are endowed with the ability to choose between good and evil. The very conflicting presence of truth and untruth, fact and falsehood, constitutes the potentiality of error. The deliberate choice of evil constitutes sin; the willful rejection of truth is error; the persistent pursuit of sin and error is iniquity.

    54:1.1 Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty.
    54:1.2 True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress. False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space. Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity.
    54:1.3 Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled. True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity, and divine obligations.
    54:1.4 Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships.
    54:1.5 Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage.
    54:1.6 True liberty is the associate of genuine self-respect; false liberty is the consort of self-admiration. True liberty is the fruit of self-control; false liberty, the assumption of self-assertion. Self-control leads to altruistic service; self-admiration tends towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual as is willing to sacrifice righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust power over his fellow beings.
    54:1.7 Even wisdom is divine and safe only when it is cosmic in scope and spiritual in motivation.
    54:1.8 There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.
    54:1.9 How dare the self-willed creatur