Archangelic Queens of Heaven and the United States of the Solar System

I continue to advocate a multidisciplinary approach to life, the universe, and everything -- in a polite, neutral, and questioning manner. I will continue to provide a cross-section of sources and images which might relate to 'Archangelic Queens of Heaven and the United States of the Solar System' -- even if I do not necessarily agree with the content. I don't need to be right. I simply wish to facilitate productive thinking relative to Solar System Governance. I keep thinking that the major behind the scenes factions are NOT nice. I doubt that factions become major factions by being NICE. I tend to think that the major behind the scenes factions control EVERYTHING in the solar system -- and that they, in turn, are controlled by a REALLY BAD@$$ FACTION. I tend to think that we are SO Screwed. Remind me to be a BAD@$$ SOB in my next incarnation. That seems to work MUCH better in this solar system. Just remember that Factions Have Factions and that Fence-Riders Form Splinter-Groups. BTW -- when I first met 'Saint Germain' he was with what appeared to me to be a very foxy Pleiadian (who he subsequently 'broke-up with'). Also, when we first met, I was introduced to his 'mother' (who seemed to me to be some sort of an agent). It was as if he were being 'delivered'. Interesting. One more thing. Who was that smart, animated, and goofy skateboarder the other night??!! I think I know!! Nuff Said.

Consider studying the following in sequence -- and as a whole:

1. Ancient History (including Evolution, Atlantis, Lemuria, Babylon, Egypt, Greece, and Rome).

2. The Old Testament (all 39 books).

3. Roman Catholic Church History (official and unofficial -- from beginning to present).

4. The Book of Revelation.

5. 'The Gods of Eden' by William Bramley.

6. 'The Great Controversy' by Ellen White.

7. The First Four Episodes of the First Season and the 'Unholy Alliance' Episode from the Second Season of the 2009-10 'V' Series.

This is NOT a fun study. Just the opposite. Do you notice a common character and thread?? I realize that I'm playing with burning magnesium -- but I'm really attempting to help prevent the Battle of Armageddon (if it can be prevented). I continue to have Zero Animosity toward anyone. I'm simply attempting to help solve a HUGE problem. After thousands of years of being 'God's Chosen People' why does Israel still struggle to control a very small portion of desert real-estate??? At the time of the Exodus -- why did God not provide Israel with a land of lush vegetation -- without fighting all of those nasty and bloody battles of conquest -- where even the little children were butchered??? Was the 'Old Covenant' a 'Ra Deal'??? Something is VERY wrong with this picture. I love the Jewish People -- and my Seventh-day Adventist background is somewhat 'Jewish' in nature. I strictly kept the Seventh-Day Sabbath from Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday for decades. This Jerusalem and Syria thing could be the beginning of the end -- I kid you not.

Carol wrote:You still don't get it do you? Three years before GWB was even known to run for the presidency I was told by some insiders that the fix was in with Florida being the swing state (where Jeb was Governor) that GW would be the next prez. This was before anyone knew that he would even be running and before the elections ever took place. Key word here "FIX." Our government was compromised with business and the secret government back when Bush Sr. was head of the CIA and involved in the Project Pegasus time travel program. This was when they sent people to the future to gather intel as to who the future presidents were going to be. When I say the FIX is in this means that the CIA also has been grooming future presidents ever since Obama was a child, where he was one of the ones that has been handled from the onset. Obama will win just like GW won but not because this was from the popular vote of the people, but instead because the FIX was in with the electoral votes and also with the electronic voting machines where who was voted for is altered to make it look like it is for the candidate the fix is in for. O just has to show up. He really doesn't have to make much of an effort for his re-election because the FIX is in.

Going to the polls to vote is a wasted effort these days because my vote, anyones vote, can be altered. You're still pretty young Floyd and have a lot of passion about candidates. I'm jaded based on what I've witnessed throughout my life beginning with the assignation of JFK. That was heart-breaking. Then we got stuck with that louse LBJ who was in on the assignation FIX with Bush Sr (because most folks know that the CIA had to be in on this to for it to happen). JFK's assignation was when the timeline went a wry following the dark path the Bush Sr. set into place along with his cronies. This is why I have no hope for this current government. It's all smoke and mirrors - hiding the real agenda, which is of course global domination - a one-world bank and tax enslavement. For these reasons many folks like me pray for a massive CME, or something that would destroy this dark's force domination over humanity. Given what technology exists within the secret government, for example free energy exists that is viable and in use, it's a crime against humanity that this is not available for everyone. Yet because of greed and power hungry critters people of the earth live in poverty, starve, are at war and suffer meaninglessly. Or even better - many pray for the galactic wave to cross over us and help humanity make that evolutionary leap of at-one-ment - where each individual has a direct personal experience of how we are all connected and that to bring harm to one, is really to also bring harm to the collective.

Personally, on one hand, I'm very depressed having to be in a position to witness mans inhumanity toward each other, to women, children and those who are vulnerable and weak. It greatly saddens me to see people stripped of their dignity and sense of self-worth, where instead they have to fight over resources, which in truth could easily be made available to all. Of course my idea of resources are the basics (good healthy food, clean water, clean air and (hygienic) shelter. It is also my belief that people need to learn how to be self-sustaining in small communities and get away from big government. The means to do this is there but the viability is blocked - and by who?

Anyone can follow the path into the past and see similar situations when it comes to politics - because politics is all about manipulating the populace. In a democracy such as currently in the US, the people are lied to and made to believe that they are free. I don't consider tax enslavement freedom, nor someone telling me where I can get my medical care freedom, nor food that has been genetically modified - where it alters human DNA and the truth of it's negative effects hidden - freedom. Unfortunately, people have been socially engineered via the media and mind-control programming to think these elections actually count and mean something. They are being deceived because someone as insignificant as myself knows, the FIX is in. That's why I've given up on politics. What we need at this stage of the game is Divine intervention. And it is also because I've come to the understanding that god does have a plan, even when things look pretty bleak - that I still have faith that we will see the dawn of a new age, a golden age where the spiritual component takes center stage.

Mitt's name is not down as a future prez, so don't sweat it Floyd. O will go down with the government as one of the worst presidents in US history. And believe me after GWB, I didn't think it possible for it to get worse for the US. I was wrong. And this is how it will happen. First, fiscal collapse along with earth changes. In the meantime world opinion isn't looking that great toward the US either. And Israel is in real trouble (more then folks may or may not realize). Of course there are those fractions working at dragging this nation into war with Iran and this will fail. Why? Because Russia and China are not going to sit by the sidelines and do nothing. Meanwhile, off-worlders are also interested in earth's resources and somewhere along the line intervention of a more refined nature will occur.

On a more persona note, Ecuador is looking good to me these days. Whether the means presents itself is another story as I'm now at the age where I would like to ride the current US bruhaha out in a friendly environment. The one bright spot, in one possible future timeline, is if Andrew Bassiago ends up becoming prez in 2016 as was identified by his father when gathering intel on future presidents. Now that would be something.

We Are You wrote:We are all incredibly beautiful beings.
Posted on October 4, 2012 by Laura

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Our light only has for equal our beauty.

In the higher dimensions, we are perfect. I mean REALLY perfectly beautiful.

We are masters of telepathy, of love, of joy, and of eternal wonder.

When I came here from the Pleiadies or Sirius, I was tall, blonde; I was wearing dresses with long veils. I was a telepath; my movements were slow, elegant and gentle. I am including photos of what I was wearing when I came here, and what I looked like more or less.

My then husband came from a different planet to mine. He was an amazing person inside and outside.

The Higher dimensions are full of unconditional love, or fairy tales, but can also have tensions.

When we came here, a war had erupted between a coalition of worlds and planets and more aggressive new races such as the reptilians and the Annunaki. Wars and shooting was not expected to happen upon our arrival on planet Earth, so many of our ships were ordered to leave this sector. This was because they did not want a general war to explode over this quarrel here.

So we were left behind, along with a few others.

I know the time of coming and re-joining our star family is coming, I know it now, I knew it as I was watching their ships leaving this solar system. I had no fear ever of being here, with enemies.

We have all grown to understanding one another, all the various races stuck here. Some are still hanging to their gains, but there will be no escape for those as the entire solar system ascends, possibly the entire galaxy.

Those of them who chose to remain here, will have to ascend I guess. I believe that some will chose to leave this galaxy before this happens however, and we will be allowed to learn and work together as a community of races, who have grown up together.

We will rejoin the source light, and we will have peace.

Love and light. Laura

We Are You wrote:http://obiwankabuki.blogspot.com.br/2012/10/a-celestial-mystery-solved-secret-to.html

A Message from Mira from the Pleiadian High Council (now working with the Earth Council)
Through Valerie Donner October 2, 2012

Greetings, I am Mira. I salute you from the Earth Council and from all of us who have your welfare at heart. We have a 100% of our focus on you. What is occurring on the Earth right now is monumental. Whether it is your oceans, the core of the Earth, your ecosystems, weather, drought, volcanic eruptions and earthquakes, all are contributing to the realignment and balancing of the Earth’s energies.

Some of these energies are impacting your personal lives in the form of relationships, finances and personal transformation. It adds up to change in the grandest sense. Many are having trouble adjusting and adapting to these major forces. The currents run strong across the planet. Everyone feels it in one way or the other. It is not making for business as usual.

You have political upheaval and economic upheaval in some pivotal places. Bear in mind this is contributing to the making of a new way of being on the Earth. As sad as it can be to see the old slip away it is important to remember to welcome the new into your hearts. How do you know that it won’t be better? It could be a lot better.

We observe how much humans like to hang on to the past, even if it is a painful one. The familiar seems safer for some reason that we find unusual. In the Pleiades there is no such hanging on. We are present for each part of the now moment. This brings us peace. Most humans have yet to learn this presence but through some of these situations in which you find yourselves you are marking the way for further understanding of this way of being.

You are making inroads as you strive to create a new balance where ever you can. It is love that makes this possible for if you remember some of the sayings of your spiritual teachers, With love all things are possible. It is with a loving heart and accepting attitude that you can build the bridge from the past to this now moment.

All of creation is focusing on the Earth. There are millions of space ships surrounding you waiting until the appropriate divine time to make themselves known. We only want what is best for you. What happens on the Earth affects all of creation. We are not allowed to force our will upon you or any other planetary systems. We work together for the common good.

In the remainder of your earthly year 2012 you will find blessings and miracles everywhere. This is part of your ability to manifest and create your new future. Look for the gifts in everything and know that everything is an opportunity to welcome in the Light, brighter future.

I am Mira.

In Conclusion

The changes we are going through are not easy but we have all of the assistance from the Light Realms, like St. Germain, Sananda, Mother Mary, Djwal Khul, Kuthumi and the other Masters, Archangels and angels. Our extraterrestrial families are in the wings waiting for our reunion. We have so much to look forward to as we rise in consciousness. Our Creator trusts us and knows we can do whatever is necessary to facilitate this big shift.

If we bless our challenges, gain the wisdom from them and see each occurrence as a gift, we will be making the best of our ascension process. Even if what you are going through seems intense and you wonder when it will end, remember that 80 years here is only 8 minutes on the other side.

Ground crew, we are on your side.

Blessings, love and Light,

Valerie Donner

We Are You wrote:Greetings I am Saint Germain,

Don’t let the donkeys get you down, mmmmm…or the elephants.

I do have to ride a herd on some of those beings in the White House don’t I?

I need to round them up and put them in front of the populous and ask them a few questions.

They are important ones like when can we get down to the root of the evil, down to the truth?

We can put it all together so we can see what it is so that it can be revealed to everyone.

I would like to send quite a few of them packing,

I feel like rolling up the carpet and getting the place clean

By actually relocating them, replacing them,

With the star beings who have come to make things right.

They don’t care about tips or bribes,

They just care about the American tribes—everyone.

They are like all of you who love human beings . . .

Nice people you can have a cup of coffee with,

Strike up a relationship with...

Good old fashioned people with a strong constitution

Connected to the Light not to an institution.

As consciousness awakens

It’s going to end up leveling the playing field,

For what does it matter if only a minority of people fare well

If most of the people are treated like HE__ __?

That’s how it’s been for years and years and years.

Tow the mark and let them say the rest.

Exploitations and reasons,

Damage to the soul beyond belief;

It’s not the way it was meant to be.

This is the United States;

It stands for liberty.

So where does that take you?

What does it mean?

It means we are redefining you,

That we’re raising the bar on all of your systems.

We’re creating a new design.

Your politicians have been political with all too much negativity.

It’s overwhelming.

The separation and promises unfulfilled,

The human heart has practically been killed.

The destruction, sadness, the tragic losses with families, jobs, skills, what people earn.

I’m going to use my anguish…Let the Violet Flame burn.

We worship all over the sad remorse.

We have a heart and are beings that have a much friendlier reign for things.

We know you do too!

You’re part of it, the creation of you.

So what are we all to look at

As things fall apart?

We’ll take the good away from the bad,

We’ll replace things with happiness instead of sad.

Instead of just a pittance here and there

There will be abundance with plenty to spare.

Those who have been greedy and unjust,

Will have to live in front of the populous and explain everything they’ve done, how they’ve breached the trust.

For some of those who kept up their grievous ways of being

And their service to me thinking

Will find that humans –the populous at large,

Will have the gumption to make the change, to take charge.

And when the truth is known--

That sort of truth will run straight through.

There will be no questions asked.

You will know what to do.

Because you’re replacing the pieces you no longer need.

You have a statement; everyone does.

You have your part, so here it goes.

You have a faster way of change, a route that easily shows.

You need some embellished leadership with no more yeses or tries.

You need commitments from people who won’t tell lies.

This is a time of your golden era,

Let’s work together to make it all better.

♥ Tips for Connecting with Aurora and Aurora Re-Entry Sequence – Aurora Dremaflight update for 6th Oct. 2012, Message from Adrial ♥
Posted on October 4, 2012 by Laura

2 Votes

Aurora Hangar/ Shuttle Bay looks very much like the bay in Battle Star Galactica. One can feel the metallic matter as approaching Aurora from space, and the same feeling goes on once inside. There is a very strong connection between all that is onboard and in the higher dimensions.

Greetings, this is Arial. We would like to suggest a new exercise in order to help those of you who feel they are not experiencing as strong a connection with Aurora and her crew as they would like.

Let us try to guide you with the help of your imagination. First close your eyes, ask your guides, protectors and spirit for protection for the entire duration of this experiment. Visualise a golden sphere descending upon you and embracing you. If you prefer to surround yourself with pure white light, this is also good. Sit in silence observing your thoughts, feelings, and the inner light within your body. Notice the energy movements, but also the body tensions, your posture, your breathing, your weight, your muscular tensions and soreness. Let go and distance yourself slowly from your physical body, from your daily worries, from your own emotions.

Sense the light that you are, sense the connection with the higher spheres of existence. Sense the Oneness within your heart, within your body and within your mind. Connect with the crew mates that you communicate with on a regular basis from the blog, then extend your mind to include the Aurora presence, and Adrial’s presence.

My own presence is light, tender, loving, compassionate, and pure. Aurora’s presence is pure white light, you know her voice and you will hear her speak if you focus on her. Her voice has been efficiently reproduced in a few movies. You have heard Aurora’s voice before.

Call up to Aurora with your mind, she is always listening to you. Your connection to her is direct and powerful. Don’t forget that most of your real bodies are in suspended animation on Aurora, so it is relatively easy for her to connect with your mind if you so desire. All she has to do is to make her presence known consciously.

Your brain is the seat for many neuro sensors, able to connect with the higher dimensions. In this manner you are able to receive your own messages, downloaded from your Higher Self, thus enabling you a permanent connection to source. There is no need to be overly concerned if the connection is not a conscious one for now. This is the part needing work over a life time period usually.

One advantage of not shining too brightly is that you do not attract attention from 4th dimension beings as strongly as those of greater ability to connect to the light. This makes an easier journey for you. Many among you have these inborn abilities awaken and in full power, but chose to make use of these for their own selves only, which is something that we understand and support also. This inner work period usually goes on for a few years, perhaps 10 or 30 years. This is the time when one learns to connect, verifies and validates one’s own abilities.

Once you have established a solid contact with Mother Aurora, you can begin visualising coming onboard her with your own personal scout ship. Her hangar doors slowly open up in order to allow your craft in, from outside, you begin to see yellow light inside. The automatic dark metal doors open up slowly for you. Your craft is inspected by a purple light beam. You keep the password on your mind (Mocham) while the scanning takes place. The inside of your own craft is dark, just a few dim lights are on at the back of the scoutship and on your dashboard. There is also a dim purple beam radiating from the top of your cabin above your seat. Your seat is soft, and embraces the shape of your body.

There are 3 colour uniforms on board mainly for crews: Black, Grey and Blue Turquoise.

Our Diving suits are somehow similarly looking to the space suits we wear on Aurora. This is just a slight idea to bring you close to the look of our suits. The white part goes all the way to the ground at the front and at the back. There is also a degrade from center to the sides of our bodies

These are the main colours of the Ground crew and of those authorised to go on away missions while stationed on orbit around the Earth. The front of the uniform is much brighter, and the colour goes darker as you go towards the sides of your body. This suit is very much like a second skin when you are on away missions, and its texture resembles that of your own 5D skin. Your body is in neutral and relaxed mode, it is always warm.

You wear a device facilitating guidance in space and giving commands to your craft. It is a narrow headband device, not covering your forehead. It functions connecting to your lobes and back of the head, connecting thus to your spinal fluid indirectly.

Your craft is allowed in and the bay doors open fully for you. You take a final look at Mother Earth before deciding to penetrate in the shuttle bay. The intense ocean blue is such a sight for you, the Earth’s atmosphere is such a joy. You can sense all the beings alive on board planet Earth. You say good bye for now, and you allow your craft being taken control by Aurora, who parks it in the shuttle bay gently with her own guidance system. The inside of the bay is also very dim, lights are not really allowed on board for detection concerns. Your senses are so heightened, that there is no need for you to open your eyes at all as a matter of fact. You know Aurora as the back of your hand, you sense all objects around you, you sense Aurora and her crew welcoming your return from your away mission.

You remove your gloves, head band and helmet, you step down the stairs from your craft. There are some dim lights on the runway of the bay. They point at the shuttle bay exit points. The atmosphere inside the bay is now fully breathable for you, and a mini crew comes to check your craft and ready it for your next exit. More light comes on just above your craft, allowing the crew to inspect it from any irregularities.

Your eyes point towards the main hall double door, re-joining the rest of the crew. You can already sense the life passed those double tick doors. You know the name of those walking passed the bay door, and they too acknowledge you back. You hear the double door of the shuttle bay fully lock now, a rather deaf clamping sound, you can sense it as well as hearing the deaf sound for it.

This upcoming mission, we will make use of your wonderful diving suits and rejoin the Earth’s oceans. Those of you who wish to fly their own crafts will be allowed to do so, after preliminary re familiarisation training on board. Provided we are satisfied that your re-familiarisation is completed, you will make an autonomous exit with your own craft. No assistance will be available if you are in hot spots however, unless volunteers come up. Which we are never short of :)

As the scout ships leave, we follow the lights on the floor towards the exit of Aurora. This goes at high speed and Aurora is doing almost the entire manoeuvring for take off, as well as re entry in her gravity field.

You can fly solo in space, and on the Earth’s oceans and have a joy ride in your own space crafts. Some of you may need to use their own bodies for this exit, so your natural bodies will be revived, and this on its own is an entire mission for those of you who have not used their own bodies for some millennia!

We wish you a wonderful journey, full of adventures and memories. It will be moving for some of you. So, be prepared to have a lonely or peaceful Sunday please so that you can deal with the feelings evoked during the dreamflight.

We love you all very much and can hardly wait till the excitement begins this Satruday. Adrial and Aurora out.

Channeled through Laura

Aquaries1111 wrote:Oxy, I respect that we all do need our space at times but please do not be a stranger. I have reserved a special place for you to meet me in the dream state should you intend to travel "off planet". Should I find you there, I will offer you a "Tulip"... and show you around the place.. maybe you have a thing or two you can show me... Perhaps that special back room entry you have been looking for "full of sacred knowledge" is in some secret space in the Galaxy reserved only for you.. never say never..

August 17th to August 31st 1987 in Ibiza is where I spent the Harmonic Convergence.. Something past of mine, to share with you now... May all your dreams come true...

Seen the Sun lately?

Thank-you A1. The 'Ancient Egyptian Deity' (AED) kept talking about the sun in a rather ominous manner -- seeming to suggest that I should enjoy it while it lasts. The AED used to ask me if I had seen the sun lately?! I still think that the Galactic PTB wish to end life as we know it in this solar system -- and I am extremely disillusioned with Divinity, Humanity, and Myself. I seem to be at war with all three -- even though I wish to be at peace with all three. Did you read 'Family of Secrets' regarding the Bush clan?? I thought it was well written and very revealing. However, I think I might like to study Presidents, Popes, and Queens -- and positively reinforce the best attributes that I find. I don't doubt that every single one of them have been manipulated from the shadows -- but I still think that their best traits should be emulated -- and their best words taken seriously. BTW -- are there Good Sun-Gods and Bad Sun-Gods?? Are ALL Gods Sun-Gods?? A Sun is sort of the biggest game in town in any solar system -- so why shouldn't it be a major point of reference?? When the Mass has Solar Deity Symbolism -- is this necessarily a bad thing?? When the priest elevates the disk-wafer eastward -- toward the rising sun -- is this in reference to Our Sun, Sirius -- or to at least one Deity identified with whatever Sun?? I continue to wonder if Archangel Michael is more like Vala Mal Doran than Max Von Sydow?! The sexually-repressed weakling hanging on a cross stereotypical Messianic Human Sacrifice might simply be a Red Herring created by the Woman in Scarlet -- if you know what I mean?! I am tending to be more Archangelicentric than Christocentric these days. I tend to think that history has been massively hidden and butchered by the victors.

Consider reading 'Evangelicals on the Canterbury Trail' side-by-side with 'The Wine of Roman Babylon' -- if you can find copies. The comparison might be VERY important. I'm attempting to be ecumenical -- but I do NOT desire 'peace at any price'. What would the various religious organizations throughout the world have to say regarding the 1928 'Book of Common Prayer' as potential 'common ground' (especially if the various religious organizations could interpret and apply it as they chose)?? Is there a liturgy which might serve as an Ecumenical Point of Reference for all religious organizations?? If God came down and gave us a liturgy -- would we turn up our noses?? If God told us what to do -- would we tell God where to go?? Would we even give God the time of day?? Would we crucify God?? I keep wondering what it might be like to set up shop at the deconsecrated St. Ouen in Rouen, France -- and conduct a United States of the Solar System church-state experiment -- with say 500 scholars -- limited to the 1928 'Book of Common Prayer', the 'Federalist Papers' (including the Constitution and Bill of Rights), and Sacred Classical Music -- for one year??!! I'm trying to conceptually use tools which already exist -- rather than attempting to reinvent the wheel. I had hoped to generate heated discussions -- but it didn't fracking happen -- and I frankly think we're running out of time. Think about it -- but think fast. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtA_6lIhKWY&feature=related 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pny-Ily4SbE&feature=related

Somehow, I need to just review the territory I've already covered -- without continuing to post. Perhaps my efforts to save this solar system have been rejected -- and it might be time for me to call it quits -- and just let things play out -- for badder or for worse. Is there anywhere else in the universe where I might be of some value?? This solar system seems to have made it's decision -- and I do NOT wish to force my hand. I have a feeling that my point of view was rejected thousands of years ago -- and that nothing has changed. The decision is made -- and perhaps it is time for me to move on -- if there is anywhere to move on to -- and I tend to doubt that there is. Oh well -- it's only life -- what am I saying??

Article 24 - Day of Redemption

24.1 Day of Divine Redemption

By this most Sacred and Supreme Covenant, the Day known as the Day of
Divine Redemption, also known as the Day of Redemption, also known as
Redemption Day, also known as the Day of the 4th Divine Post and Notice,
also known as the Day of the 4th Horseman it shall forever be known that
Divine Notice was duly served and notarized by the Divine Creator to each
_________________________________________________________________

Covenant of One Heaven 82 E8:Y3208:A1:S1:M27:D1

Pactum De Singularis Caelum

and every man, woman and higher order spirit, living and deceased
concerning the offer of Divine Remedy by this sacred Covenant.
The One, True and only Official Day of Divine Redemption shall be
UCA[E1:Y1:A1:S1:M9:D1] also known as Fri, 21 Dec 2012 . This shall be the
Day upon which it shall forever be known that Notice of Divine Redemption
was served and witnessed.

24.2 Notice of Divine Redemption

The Notice of Divine Redemption served upon the Day of Redemption shall
be this most sacred Covenant combined with all the other Ucadian
Covenants and all Codes of Law and Patents as One (1) Complete Perfected
Notice in all the Universe, Heavens and upon the Earth.

The Task of ensuring all spirits of all Heavens and Hells receive fair Notice
that Redemption has now been fully ratified and executed as the highest of
all law, the most supreme of all supreme laws by Perfect Notorial Procedure
shall be appointed the 4th and final Divine Horseman to bear witness to the
supreme truth of the Divine Notice.

By the absolute power and authority vested in this Sacred Covenant, no
force in the Universe, Heaven or on Earth may prevent the appearance of
the 4th Divine Horseman upon the Day of Divine Redemption.

24.3 Witnesses to Notice of Divine Redemption
By this most sacred Covenant, the 1st Notaries and all Living members who
have undertaken the Act of Redemption shall represent the 1st living
witnesses to the truth and validity of the Notice of Divine Redemption.

24.4 Remedy by Special Qualification may not be offered after Day
of Redemption

The less senior of officials of all alternate societies given fair notice by due
process of the Day of Judgment and Remedy have until
UCA[E8:Y3210:A0:S1:M27:D6] also known as Wed, 21 Dec 2011 also known as
the Only True Day of Judgment to agree or provide superior remedy to the
Divine Creator.

The Offer of Remedy by Extraordinary Qualification is not permitted to be
extended beyond the Day of Judgment.

Therefore the Day of Judgment is so named as it represents the last Day
appointed by the Divine Creator to offer those in power across planet Earth
Extraordinary Remedy. Their choice shall be their Judgment including if they
_________________________________________________________________
Covenant of One Heaven 83 E8:Y3208:A1:S1:M27:D1

Pactum De Singularis Caelum
remain silent, as their silence shall legally represent their full and
unconditional consent to this and all associated Original law.

24.5 One and Only True Day of Redemption
By this most sacred Covenant the Day of Redemption of

UCA[E1:Y1:A1:S1:M9:D1] also known as Fri, 21 Dec 2012 shall be the one and
only true Day of Redemption. All other claimed dates are hereby rendered
null and void through absence of any Covenant greater then hereby
demonstrated.

24.6 Day of Redemption as first Day of first Great Conclave of One
Heaven

The first day of the first Great Conclave from this point on shall also be
honored with the title of Redemption Day in respect of this first Day of
Redemption. Therefore, every one hundred and twenty eight years from the
date of the 1st Great Conclave the Earth shall witness a second sacred Day
of Redemption of even greater awareness and remedy.

www.one-heaven.org

Thank-you A1. I would like to hear Frank examine Roman Canon Law -- point by point. Also, I would like to hear him examine church history from the Israelite Exodus through present-day Roman Catholicism. Again, I am very wary of the whole treaty thing -- especially regarding demons. What is a demon, exactly?? Why should demons be reverenced?? Does the term 'Namaste' imply reverence for even the worst of the worst -- at the soul or spirit level?? This thing could be a VERY slippery slope. When I use the term 'Namaste' I am referring to Reverencing the Divinity Within Humanity -- which implies reverencing the very best aspects of another individual. Unfortunately, I continue to NOT know what we are really dealing with in this world, solar system, galaxy, and universe. I'm assuming that things are bad everywhere -- and that it's this little Human World in conflict with an Other-Than-Human Universe. I'm also assuming that this world and solar system are part of a HUGE Galactic Business Empire -- where the bottom-line is the bottom-line. Religion would be a business. Politics would be a business. War would be a business. Health-Care would be a business. Terrorism would be a business. Taxation would be a business. Illegal Drugs would be a business. The Pharmaceutical Industry would be a business. Criminal Justice would be a business. EVERYTHING would be a business. A Solar System Administrator would be a Business Manager. A BadA$$ Draconian Reptilian might be Chairman of the Board of Solar Systems Incorporated. I'm NOT kidding. I'm really not. The realities of Solar System Governance and Management might not be nice at all. I am VERY apprehensive and cynical at this point. I'm also assuming that my well-intentioned threads would probably be twisted into something evil and destructive. I have very little hope of a happy future. I'm seeing nothing but a Very Nasty Solar System Business Model. I would LOVE to be part of an Idealistic and Non-Corrupt United States of the Solar System -- but I suspect that the Evil and Nefarious Infiltration and Subversion would be immediate -- complete -- and even retroactive.

I'm beginning to study an old 1960 Roman Catholic Missal. I continue to think that everyone should study various churches and religions -- even if they don't believe in God. True Believers tend to not engage in open and honest research into their own faith. Unbelievers tend to not study religion -- because they think it's all just a bunch of BS. Perhaps a lot more people who don't go to church should study comparative religions while listening to sacred classical music. My level of discomfort and misery -- relative to my passive research activities -- is truly debilitating. I'm not faking being physically, mentally, and spiritually screwed. I continue to be VERY wary of Official Disclosure. The present level of Unofficial Disclosure is probably sufficient -- although I suspect that a lot of people are going insane -- or even committing suicide -- in connection with the internet madness. Political and Theological Science Fiction should be VERY carefully and skillfully entered into. Don't just do the usual blood and guts -- shouting and chasing -- Hollywood as Usual Sci-Fi. Tread very softly with the subjects we discuss on this website (in general) and within this thread (in particular). I have an overwhelming desire to shut-up and lay-low at this point in time. On the other hand -- I think I'd still like to be able to sit in on highly classified meetings and discussions -- while remaining silent. But then I'd REALLY be miserable. I have NO doubt about that. I speak with almost no one about what I post on this thread. This is a Spiritual War which I often feel as if I am losing -- Big Time. I don't do the triumphalist thing. I simply wish to understand. But tell me -- wouldn't it be cool to get in an elevator in a Vegas hotel -- enter a special code into a hidden keypad -- and descend 500 feet beneath the basement level -- and emerge into a Mag-Lev Train Station??!! I need to shut-up. I purposely and deliberately keep myself ignorant about a lot of things. I'm only presently dealing with the madness because I feel that I have to. I perceive that things are THAT bad. What Would TREEE Say?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdywVpflh40 What Would Dana Say?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKdqW3OsPhc&feature=relmfu

I'm thinking of creating a Hierarchy of Existing Laws - consisting of the 1,000 most important laws in the solar system -- listed in order of importance -- in Canon Law Format. The goal would be to attempt to get most everyone in the solar system to agree to make this the Legal Standard for the Entire Solar System. This might simply be one more mental and spiritual exercise in futility -- but it might be fun. I'm not a legal expert or constitutional scholar -- but this project might be most educational. Political, religious, and cultural sensitivity would be of the utmost importance. This Solar System Governance formulation thing is going a lot slower than I'd like -- and I often seem to be marching backwards to a drummer of a very strange beat. Some use 'My kingdom is not of this world' to keep church and state separate -- religion out of politics -- and politics out of religion -- but it seems as if politics and religion are two sides of the same coin. I interpret the Words of Jesus as meaning that the True Kingdom of God is Highly-Spiritual and Highly-Ethical. What do you think about the concept of a Minimalist Representative-Theocracy??

I wonder how many people who don't go to church, and who aren't religion professors -- actually study the Bible on a regular basis?? I keep thinking that Bible Study is much more important than Doctrinal Orthodoxy. Do people have the patience and stamina to deal with all of the problems connected with the Bible, Religion, and Theology?? Do people seek relief from their problems when they read the Bible or attend church?? Truth seeking doesn't always provide relief from problems. Often, the problems multiply when one seeks the truth. Does one become a heretic when they are strictly honest regarding what they find in the Bible?? If you study my threads, you will find that I have woven a VERY tangled web -- and I certainly have NOT practiced to deceive. I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. I'll try to see things from the bottom, middle, and top of the pyramid. I am goofy in one sense -- but in another sense I am more serious than you can imagine. I continue to think that Responsibility and Law are central to proper Solar System Governance -- and I will continue to model various ideas and theories within this thread. I hope you've noticed that I rarely make things personal or nasty -- even when considering the worst of the worst. I continue to promise 'No Surprises'. I still haven't received an FOIA Response -- and perhaps that's just as well -- even though I doubt that I'd be surprised by the contents. I think things are going to get really nasty and confusing in the coming months and years -- but I'll try to remain polite, neutral, and questioning -- regardless of what I learn -- and regardless of what happens. My world is a dreamworld and a nightmare. I suspect that I'll continue to be burned-out and completely harmless -- unless the contents of this thread is somehow a threat to someone. I never know if I'm helping or hurting -- but don't be frightened. I mean no harm. I am of peace. Always.

I think I've found my 'Dream-Car' -- a Prius with Solar Panels! http://www.solarelectricalvehicles.com/ That might work well with a Solar-Powered Missile-Silo! 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YOxc-L6KdE 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_liNYkZn_M&feature=related 3. http://www.coldwarmissilesilo.com/silo.htm I'd like to think that I'm more green than paranoid! I'd like to deal with this thread in a completely non-hostile and non-paranoid manner -- as if everything in this thread were just another day at the office -- on the Dark-Side of the Moon!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KgjIRkrJoo I think I'm going to rewatch 'Stargate' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s1BiL8GPqc and '2012' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce0N3TEcFw0 today. Then, I think I'm going to watch 'Building the Great Cathedrals' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_8DCGeQTdU and 'Pink Smoke Over the Vatican' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Y1TWLbj-4 tomorrow. I hope that someone appreciates my combining politics, religion, and science-fiction!! It's a nasty-task -- but someone has to do it -- even if they are a completely ignorant fool. Frankly, this madness has become WAY too realistic. My life seems to be a 24/7 Science-Fiction Motion-Picture -- with NO Gap between fantasy and reality. It's quite destabilizing presently -- but the goal is to become conditioned so as NOT to be shocked or paralyzed by ANYTHING -- including face to face meetings with Ancient Egyptian Deities, Tall Long-Nosed Greys, Draconian-Reptilians, Angels, Demons, Lucifer, Satan, Archangels, Queens of Heaven, the Pope, the Black Pope, the President, the Queen of England, and the God of the Old Testament. What Would Jesus Do?? Are we facing a Godless and Morally-Ambiguous Technocracy -- run by Megalomaniacs Anonymous??!! The Horror.

One of my favorite activities is attending Vintage Car Races -- where museum-quality race-cars are actually raced very agressively -- even though some of them are older than that Packard in the first video below. Some of them are worth close to fifteen million dollars -- and are often brought to the track in semi-trucks full of very valuable race-cars!! It must be nice to have THAT much money!! I'm just happy to be able to watch and listen. I can barely afford the price of admission. I've watched most of the cars in the following videos -- examined them closely in the pits -- and spoken with some of the owners and drivers. I spoke with one of them regarding the physiological biochemical benefits of coconut water at the molecular level!! No joke!! 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz1su85r3hg 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_water 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcKDmvDHPjc

Carol wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHwwwJ83oWo&feature=player_embedded
http://autos.aol.com/article/102-year-old-woman-still-drives-her-82-year-old-car/?ncid=txtlnkusauto00000020
She's held her driver's license for 90 years!

Most classic car owners are accustomed to the unusual looks other motorists cast toward their relics on the road. But when Margaret Dunning is behind the wheel of her 1930 Packard 740 Roadster, she draws more attention than her vehicle. Dunning, age 102, may be one of a small handful of classic-car drivers who can lay claim to the fact they're older than their vehicles. She was born in 1910, and lives in Plymouth, Michigan, twenty years before her beloved Packard. She's been driving since she was 8 years old, and officially received her license at 12, after her father died. In an appearance at the Concours d' Elegance last month, Dunning recounted her start as an automotive aficionado.

"I'm just a farm girl, and my dad had a lot of machinery, and I adored my dad," she said. "I became familiar with the tools, because the minute I said I didn't know what I was looking for, he'd say, 'Go back to the house.'"

She owns several classic vehicles. In addition to the Packard, she includes a '66 Cadillac DeVille, a '75 Cadillac Eldorado convertible and a 1931 Model A in her collection. The one she still drives the most? Her everyday car, an '03 Cadillac DeVille. Occasionally, she still changes her own oil.

More Sherry Shriner -- to help prepare us for just about anything. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sherrytalkradio/2012/10/09/monday-night-with-sherry-shriner The Horror. What did Tim Wistrom know -- and when did he know it?? By accident, design, or an 'Act of God' -- I'm fearing a rather nasty future -- if we even have a future. I continue to be a mixture of Incurable Optimism and Unyielding Despair. Just think about nasty factions fighting with each other -- with unimaginably powerful Unconventional Weapons of Mass Destruction. We've made a Technological-Bed for ourselves -- and now we have to sleep in it -- whether we like it or not. It often seems as if we are Burying Ourselves with the Technology We Dig. I'm not anti-technology -- but technology must be created and managed with responsibility and the highest ethical standards. Someone needs to talk to me about the stolen technology and stolen @@@???!!! You know what I'm talking about -- and I know more than you think. Stop playing games. Game Over. Now, I think I'm going to overdose on Tom Clancy and Ann Rule. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXE27YGrpqo&feature=related 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWPBr4L1eyE&feature=related 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ak917meUoo 4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je4zKetRC0Y I wonder how Tom and Ann would treat the subject of Solar System Governance?? That might be quite interesting!! Speaking of interesting -- have any of you researched 'Luke Ford' 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAt11-xgRLc&feature=relmfu 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms5vmrVdzIQ 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVz11zTibP4 4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoQFgmkzBMc&feature=relmfu 5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt_bFoCoRxk&feature=relmfu 6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Ford and his father 'Desmond Ford'?? 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqhH5RVLW1o&feature=related 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt_bFoCoRxk&feature=relmfu 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy37dpBXjEs 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Ford I used to see Luke as a child (with his stepmother, Gillian), when I attended his father's theology lectures. I'm not very interested in controversial subjects and individuals -- am I??!! Is anyone keeping up with my posting?? I didn't think so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gazboLKbUvA&feature=related You still don't get this red-herring thread -- do you?? I didn't think so. I used to attend Walter Martin's Sunday-School Class. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GfuzbUzHck I never met John Shelby Spong -- but I spoke with a former co-worker who liked him very much. I promise that if you DEEPLY study this thread -- you will emerge with an understanding that will Blow Your Mind -- but I doubt that it will make you happy -- so be forewarned. The Cost of Discipleship is VERY steep. Many are called -- and few are chosen. What Would Deitrich Bonhoeffer Say?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get back to watching a nine-hour theological discussion of the Apostle's Creed. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=apostles%20creed%20dvd It's actually quite fine -- and it dovetails with the 1928 'Book of Common Prayer'. What if the 'One-Percent' Reincarnate as Starving Miserables in Chad??!! 10+11+12=33. I continue to be fascinated and troubled by the work of Frank O'Collins. I appreciate his emphasis on law and hidden church-history -- but I continue to be troubled by his treatment of the 'Spirit-World'. I'm a bit creeped-out at this point -- as I continue to feel VERY attacked on a supernatural level -- and I don't involve myself in anything creepy (other than being approached by various 'Dogma' characters in the past). I wish to keep an 'open-mind' but I am NOT supportive regarding 'Reverencing Demons' as part of a solution to a 'War in Heaven'. I will continue to listen to Frank with an open yet critical mind. I would love to have a private and completely honest conversation with the 'Black Pope' to get his perspective on the alleged evil and atrocities connected with the Vatican -- historically and presently. Unfortunately, I doubt that such a communication could ever occur -- even if the Human Vatican Heirarchy were agreeable toward this sort of thing. I continue to think they are controlled by Powerful Other-Than-Human Forces who aren't nice. Not nice at all. The horror. I continue to wonder what it would take to properly reform and purify the Roman Catholic Church -- and those who might control the Roman Catholic Church -- Human and Otherwise?! This might be an impossibility. I probably have NO idea what we're dealing with. This is a whole different world -- which I know very little about -- at least in this particular incarnation as a Completely Ignorant Fool. What if the Vatican were based upon the 1928 'Book of Common Prayer' and the 'Federalist Papers' (including the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights)??!! I realize this is Anathema and Damnable-Heresy of a Most-Pestilential Nature. I'm fascinated by the Vatican Architecture, Vatican Library, Vatican Museums, Vatican Archives -- and whatever might be underneath the Vatican -- at the deepest and most-hidden levels. How do we clean this solar system mess up -- without destroying the dignity and legitimate historical aspects of the the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church?? I am NOT triumphalist or hostile in this matter. Not at all. I wish to help -- but I fully realize that I don't know what I'm doing. The horror. I'd still like to hang-out with the Jesuits on Mt. Graham -- and just stay out of the way. Siriusly.

Is Money and Deception at the core of just about everything -- including Solar System Governance?? Think about it -- and be honest. If my 'pie in the sky idealistic illusions of grandeur' regarding the Road to Utopia via a United States of the Solar System became a reality -- would Money and Deception need to be at the core of Solar System Governance -- but in a kinder and gentler manner?? I really wonder. Thinking about the realities of Solar System Governance scares the hell out of me -- and makes me wonder if the 'Regressives' have a point -- in a somewhat sad and twisted way?? I keep thinking about Adam and Kate in 'East of Eden'. Should an 'Adam' or a 'Kate' be a Solar System Administrator? My answer is that the 'Sheriff' should probably run the show. Think about it. He worked things out in a very wise and tactful manner. He was the real hero in 'East of Eden' IMHO.

Is the Solar System really a Roman Empire and Church Business?? If so -- is this an unacceptable situation -- or is this the way things have to be -- whether we like it or not?? If this is the way things work -- would a Ceremonially-Anglican and Conservative-Constitutionalist Reformed-Vatican be an improvement upon the current governance modus operandi?? I realize I am continuing to venture where angels fear to tread -- but notice that I am doing it nicely -- and that I'm whispering my thoughts within this little website -- where I think most of the members have seen and heard just about everything already. I'm not picking a fight from atop one of the Seven Hills of Rome. I'm simply attempting to face reality -- and to then improve upon that reality.

I keep getting the sinking feeling that a Completely-Idealistic and Highly-Ethical Solar System Governance Model has been rejected by the Galactic Powers That Be and by the Earth-Human Powers That Be -- for thousands and thousands of years -- with horrific consequences. Am I selling-out by thinking in somewhat pragmatic terms?? I don't wish to sell-out -- but I also do not wish to be stubborn and stupid. I tend to think that a Solar System Administrator should be very-smart, very-tough, and very-ethical -- in a highly-tactful and highly-pragmatic manner. In fact -- if the 'Regressives' are disempowered -- it might be wise to use them as consultants. I have no idea how things really work -- or how they should work -- so I am simply speculating and dreaming. I keep thinking that the realities of Solar System Governance would really suck -- once the novelty wore-off -- and once one got used to the view of Earth from the Moon.

I simply have HUGE political and theological issues which I am attempting to assuage by modeling Solar System Goverance in the form of a United States of the Solar System -- which retains the best aspects of the Vatican, the City of London, Washington DC, the United Nations, and the Dark-Side of the Moon -- and discards the worst characteristics. I'm really not into the 'marching and megaphone' approach to making things better.

Has there historically been an 'Anna' at the center of Solar System Governance?? Is there presently an 'Anna' at the center of Solar System Governance?? Will there always need to be an 'Anna' at the center of Solar System Governance?? It makes me wonder. It really makes me wonder. I liked the idealistic aspects of 'Anna' in 'V' -- and I hated the worst characteristics. I'd still like to see an idealistic version of 'V' combined with the United States of the Solar System concept -- but it would take a helluva lot of work to produce a satisfying and convincing result. The Vatican scenes in the 'Unholy Alliance' episode of 'V' were chilling. Do things really work in a similar manner -- even as I type. I tend to think that some variation on that theme has existed for thousands of years -- going all the way back to Ancient Egypt -- in the form of Gizeh Intelligence (or equivalent). I call this 'East of Giza' or 'West of Heaven'.

Perhaps things must work this way -- but I keep thinking that 'Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely' -- and that there should probably be more openness and oversight -- with some of the checks and balances inherent within the American System. Would a United States of the Solar System be the next best step for this solar system -- or might this concept have to wait -- while an intermediate stage is implemented?? I get the sinking feeling that things will be bad for most of the people and beings in this solar system -- no matter what we do -- for a very long time. Reality Tends to be Messy and Nasty. Good Intentions Tend to Pave the Road to Hell. I will continue to be somewhat distant and detached as I consider various possibilities. I realize that I'm not very friendly -- but I'm more miserable than you can imagine -- and I'm not trying to be an S.O.B. You wouldn't want to see me try. I tend to think that I might be an Ancient Warrior of some sort -- on a reincarnational basis -- who went soft and grew a conscience. Who knows?? Imagine a combination of 'Stargate' and 'V' with Anna dressed like Ra. What if Kitesh were a Draconian Reptilian -- and Vala Mal Doran a Hybrid Human??

I continue to wonder what we were before we were human -- and I continue to wonder about the true nature of the soul -- at the core of various humanoid races. The reality might frighten us. Is this the 'Biggest Secret'?? Should some secrets remain 'secrets'?? Remember -- this thread is Political and Theological Science-Fiction -- and is mostly speculative in nature -- to make all of us think. A lot of the subject matter is so sad -- that it's almost funny -- and I sometimes poke fun at things which might be extremely serious -- if real. Forgive me -- for I know not what I do. Wait a minute -- I know exactly what I'm doing -- but don't be frightened. I mean no harm. I am of peace. Always. Wait a minute -- no I'm not.

Consider the Cathars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism

Catharism (/ˈkæθərɪzəm/; from Greek: καθαρός, katharos, pure)[1] was a name given to a Christian religious movement with dualistic and gnostic elements that appeared in the Languedoc region of France and other parts of Europe in the 11th century and flourished in the 12th and 13th centuries. The movement was extinguished in the early decades of the thirteenth century by the Albigensian Crusade, when the Cathars were persecuted and massacred and the Inquisition was set up to finish the job.

Catharism had its roots in the Paulician movement in Armenia and the Bogomils of Bulgaria which took influences from the Paulicians. Though the term "Cathar"[pronunciation?] has been used for centuries to identify the movement, whether the movement identified itself with this name is debatable.[2][3] In Cathar texts, the terms "Good Men" (Bons Hommes) or "Good Christians" are the common terms of self-identification.

The Cathars' beliefs are thought to have come originally from Eastern Europe and the Byzantine Empire by way of trade routes. The name of Bulgarians (Bougres) was also applied to the Albigenses, and they maintained an association with the similar Christian movement of the Bogomils ("Friends of God") of Thrace. "That there was a substantial transmission of ritual and ideas from Bogomilism to Catharism is beyond reasonable doubt."[4] Their doctrines have numerous resemblances to those of the Bogomils and the earlier Paulicians as well as the Manicheans and the Christian Gnostics of the first few centuries AD, although, as many scholars, most notably Mark Pegg, have pointed out, it would be erroneous to extrapolate direct, historical connections based on theoretical similarities perceived by modern scholars. St John Damascene, writing in the 8th century AD, also notes of an earlier sect called the "Cathari", in his book On Heresies, taken from the epitome provided by Epiphanius of Salamis in his Panarion. He says of them: "They absolutely reject those who marry a second time, and reject the possibility of penance [that is, forgiveness of sins after baptism]."[5] These are likely the same Cathari mentioned in Canon 8 of the First Ecumenical Council of Nicaea in 325 AD, which states "...[I]f those called Cathari come over [to the Catholic faith], let them first make profession that they are willing to communicate [share full communion] with the twice-married, and grant pardon to those who have lapsed..."[6]

"It is likely that we have only a partial view of their beliefs, because the writings of the Cathars were mostly destroyed due to the doctrinal threat perceived by the Papacy; much of our existing knowledge of the Cathars is derived from their opponents. Conclusions about Cathar ideology continue to be fiercely debated with commentators regularly accusing their opponents of speculation, distortion and bias. There are a few texts from the Cathars themselves which were preserved by their opponents (the Rituel Cathare de Lyon) which give a glimpse of the inner workings of their faith, but these still leave many questions unanswered. One large text which has survived, The Book of Two Principles (Liber de duobus principiis),[7] elaborates the principles of dualistic theology from the point of view of some of the Albanenses Cathars.

It is now generally agreed by most scholars that identifiable Catharism did not emerge until at least 1143, when the first confirmed report of a group espousing similar beliefs is reported being active at Cologne by the cleric Eberwin of Steinfeld.[8] A landmark in the "institutional history" of the Cathars was the Council, held in 1167 at Saint-Félix-Lauragais, attended by many local figures and also by the Bogomil papa Nicetas, the Cathar bishop of (northern) France and a leader of the Cathars of Lombardy.

The Cathars were largely a homegrown, Western European/Latin Christian phenomenon, springing up in the Rhineland cities (particularly Cologne) in the mid-12th century, northern France around the same time, and particularly southern France—the Languedoc—and the northern Italian cities in the mid-late 12th century. In the Languedoc and northern Italy, the Cathars would enjoy their greatest popularity, surviving in the Languedoc, in much reduced form, up to around 1325 and in the Italian cities until the Inquisitions of the 1260s–1300s finally rooted them out.[9]

Cathars, in general, formed an anti-sacerdotal party in opposition to the Catholic Church, protesting against what they perceived to be the moral, spiritual and political corruption of the Church.

...they usually say of themselves that they are good Christians, ...hold the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ and his gospel as the apostles taught... occupy the place of the apostles. ...they talk to the laity of the evil lives of the clerks and prelates of the Roman Church... ...they attack and vituperate, in turn, all the sacraments of the Church, especially the sacrament of the eucharist, saying that it cannot contain the body of Christ... Of baptism, they assert that the water is material and corruptible... and cannot sanctify the soul... ...they claim that confession made to the priests of the Roman Church is useless... They assert, moreover, that the cross of Christ should not be adored or venerated... Moreover they read from the Gospels and the Epistles in the vulgar tongue, applying and expounding them in their favour and against the condition of the Roman Church... — Bernard Gui, On the Albigensians

Chesterton, the Christian apologist, claimed: "..the medieval system began to be broken to pieces intellectually, long before it showed the slightest hint of falling to pieces morally. The huge early heresies, like the Albigenses, had not the faintest excuse in moral superiority."[10]

Besides the New Testament, it has been alleged that Cathar sacred texts include The Gospel of the Secret Supper, or John's Interrogation[11] and The Book of the Two Principles.

In sharp contrast to the traditional Catholic church, the Cathars had a single sacrament, the Consolamentum, or Consolation. It involved a brief spiritual ceremony to remove all sin from the credente, or believer, and induct them into the next higher level as a Perfect.[12] Unlike the Catholic sacrament of Penance, the Consolamentum could be taken only once.

Thus it has been alleged that many credentes would eventually receive the consolamentum as death drew near—performing the ritual of liberation at a moment when the heavy obligations of purity required of Perfecti would be temporally short. Some of those who received the sacrament of the consolamentum upon their death-beds may thereafter have shunned further food or drink in order to speed death. This has been termed the endura.[13] It was claimed by Catharism's opponents that by such self-imposed starvation, the Cathars were committing suicide in order to escape this world. Other than at such moments of extremis, little evidence exists to suggest this was a common Cathar practice.[14]

It has been alleged that the Catharist concept of Jesus resembled nontrinitarian modalistic monarchianism (Sabellianism) in the West and adoptionism in the East.[15][16]

Bernard of Clairvaux's biographer and other sources accuse some Cathars of Arianism,[17][18] and some scholars see Cathar Christology as having traces of earlier Arian roots.[19][20] According to some of their contemporary enemies Cathars did not accept the Trinitarian understanding of Jesus, but considered him the human form of an angel similar to Docetic Christology.[21] Zoé Oldenbourg (2000) compared the Cathars to "Western Buddhists" because she considered that their view of the doctrine of "resurrection" taught by Jesus was, in fact, similar to the Buddhist doctrine of reincarnation.[22]

Killing was abhorrent to the Cathars. Consequently, abstention from all animal food (sometimes exempting fish) was enjoined of the Perfecti. The Perfecti apparently avoided eating anything considered to be a by-product of sexual reproduction.[12] War and capital punishment were also condemned, an abnormality in the Medieval age. As a consequence of their rejection of oaths, Cathars also rejected marriage vows. Sexual intercourse between the sexes and reproduction was viewed as a moral evil to be avoided. Their moral doctrine was based on the belief that the material world including the flesh was intrinsically evil as stemming from the evil principle or god.[23] Such was the situation that in order for a reputed Cathar to have the charge of heresy against him dismissed he needed only to show that he was legally married.

This portrays the story of a disputation between Saint Dominic and the Cathars (Albigensians), in which the books of both were thrown on a fire and St. Dominic's books were miraculously preserved from the flames. Painting by Pedro Berruguete
[edit] Organization

It has been alleged that the Cathar Church of the Languedoc had a relatively flat structure, distinguishing between perfecti (a term they did not use, instead bonhommes) and credentes.[12] By about 1140 liturgy and a system of doctrine had been established.[24] It created a number of bishoprics, first at Albi around 1165 (hence the term Albigensians[25]) and after the 1167 Council at Saint-Félix-Lauragais sites at Toulouse, Carcassonne, and Agen, so that four bishoprics were in existence by 1200.[12][24][26][27] In about 1225, during a lull in the Albigensian Crusade, the bishopric of Razes was added. Bishops were supported by their two assistants: a filius maior (typically the successor) and a filius minor, who were further assisted by deacons.[28] The perfecti were the spiritual elite, highly respected by many of the local people, leading a life of austerity and charity.[12][25] In the apostolic fashion they ministered to the people and traveled in pairs.[12]

In 1147, Pope Eugene III sent a legate to the Cathar district in order to arrest the progress of the Cathars. The few isolated successes of Bernard of Clairvaux could not obscure the poor results of this mission, which clearly showed the power of the sect in the Languedoc at that period. The missions of Cardinal Peter of St. Chrysogonus to Toulouse and the Toulousain in 1178, and of Henry of Marcy, cardinal-bishop of Albano, in 1180–81, obtained merely momentary successes. Henry's armed expedition, which took the stronghold at Lavaur, did not extinguish the movement.

Decisions of Catholic Church councils—in particular, those of the Council of Tours (1163) and of the Third Council of the Lateran (1179)—had scarcely more effect upon the Cathars. When Pope Innocent III came to power in 1198, he was resolved to deal with them.

At first Pope Innocent III tried pacific conversion, and sent a number of legates into the Cathar regions. They had to contend not only with the Cathars, the nobles who protected them, and the people who respected them, but also with many of the bishops of the region, who resented the considerable authority the Pope had conferred upon his legates. In 1204, Innocent III suspended a number of bishops in Occitania; in 1205 he appointed a new and vigorous bishop of Toulouse, the former troubadour Foulques. In 1206 Diego of Osma and his canon, the future Saint Dominic, began a programme of conversion in Languedoc; as part of this, Catholic-Cathar public debates were held at Verfeil, Servian, Pamiers, Montréal and elsewhere.

Saint Dominic met and debated the Cathars in 1203 during his mission to the Languedoc. He concluded that only preachers who displayed real sanctity, humility and asceticism could win over convinced Cathar believers. The official Church as a rule did not possess these spiritual warrants.[29] His conviction led eventually to the establishment of the Dominican Order in 1216. The order was to live up to the terms of his famous rebuke, "Zeal must be met by zeal, humility by humility, false sanctity by real sanctity, preaching falsehood by preaching truth." However, even St. Dominic managed only a few converts among the Cathari.

In January 1208 the papal legate, Pierre de Castelnau, was sent to meet the ruler of the area, Count Raymond VI of Toulouse. Known for excommunicating noblemen who protected the Cathars, Castelnau excommunicated Raymond as an abettor of heresy following an allegedly fierce argument during which Raymond supposedly threatened Castelnau with violence. Shortly thereafter, Castelnau was murdered as he returned to Rome, allegedly by a knight in the service of Count Raymond. His body was returned and laid to rest in the Abbey at Saint Gilles. As soon as he heard of the murder, the Pope ordered the legates to preach a crusade against the Cathars and wrote a letter to Phillip Augustus, King of France, appealing for his intervention—or an intervention led by his son, Louis. This was not the first appeal but some have seen the murder of the legate as a turning point in papal policy—whereas it might be more accurate to see it as a fortuitous event in allowing the Pope to excite popular opinion and to renew his pleas for intervention in the south. The chronicler of the crusade which was to follow, Peter de Vaux de Cernay, portrays the sequence of events in such a way that, having failed in his effort to peacefully demonstrate the errors of Catharism, the Pope then called a formal crusade, appointing a series of leaders to head the assault. The French King refused to lead the crusade himself, nor could he spare his son—despite his victory against John of England, there were still pressing issues with Flanders and the empire and the threat of an Angevin revival. Phillip did however sanction the participation of some of his more bellicose and ambitious—some might say dangerous—barons, notably Simon de Montfort and Bouchard de Marly. There followed twenty years of war against the Cathars and their allies in the Languedoc: the Albigensian Crusade.

This war pitted the nobles of the north of France against those of the south. The widespread northern enthusiasm for the Crusade was partially inspired by a papal decree permitting the confiscation of lands owned by Cathars and their supporters. This not only angered the lords of the south but also the French King, who was at least nominally the suzerain of the lords whose lands were now open to despoliation and seizure. Phillip Augustus wrote to Pope Innocent in strong terms to point this out—but the Pope did not change his policy—and many of those who went to the Midi were aware that the Pope had been equivocal over the siege of Zara and the seizure and looting of Constantinople. As the Languedoc was supposedly teeming with Cathars and Cathar sympathisers, this made the region a target for northern French noblemen looking to acquire new fiefs. The barons of the north headed south to do battle.

Their first target was the lands of the Trencavel, powerful lords of Albi, Carcassonne and the Razes—but a family with few allies in the Midi. Little was thus done to form a regional coalition and the crusading army was able to take Carcassonne, the Trencavel capital, incarcerating Raymond Roger in his own citadel where he died, allegedly of natural causes; champions of the Occitan cause from that day to this believe he was murdered. Simon de Montfort was granted the Trencavel lands by the Pope and did homage for them to the King of France, thus incurring the enmity of Peter of Aragon who had held aloof from the conflict, even acting as a mediator at the time of the siege of Carcassonne. The remainder of the first of the two Cathar wars now essentially focused on Simon's attempt to hold on to his fabulous gains through winters where he was faced, with only a small force of confederates operating from the main winter camp at Fanjeau, with the desertion of local lords who had sworn fealty to him out of necessity—and attempts to enlarge his newfound domains in the summer when his forces were greatly augmented by reinforcements from northern France, Germany and elsewhere. Summer campaigns saw him not only retake, sometimes with brutal reprisals, what he had lost in the 'close' season, but also seek to widen his sphere of operation—and we see him in action in the Aveyron at St. Antonin and on the banks of the Rhone at Beaucaire. Simon's greatest triumph was the victory against superior numbers at the Battle of Muret—a battle which saw not only the defeat of Raymond of Toulouse and his Occitan allies—but also the death of Peter of Aragon—and the effective end of the ambitions of the house of Aragon/Barcelona in the Languedoc. This was in the medium and longer term of much greater significance to the royal house of France than it was to De Montfort—and with the battle of Bouvines was to secure the position of Philip Augustus vis a vis England and the Empire. The Battle of Muret was a massive step in the creation of the unified French kingdom and the country we know today—although Edward III, the Black Prince and Henry V would threaten later to shake these foundations.

The crusader army came under the command, both spiritually and militarily, of the papal legate Arnaud-Amaury, Abbot of Cîteaux. In the first significant engagement of the war, the town of Béziers was besieged on 22 July 1209. The Catholic inhabitants of the city were granted the freedom to leave unharmed, but many refused and opted to stay and fight alongside the Cathars.

The Cathars spent much of 1209 fending off the crusaders. The leader of the crusaders, Simon de Montfort, resorted to primitive psychological warfare. He ordered his troops to gouge out the eyes of 100 prisoners, cut off their noses and lips, then send them back to the towers led by a prisoner with one remaining eye. This only served to harden the resolve of the Cathars.[30]

The Béziers army attempted a sortie but was quickly defeated, then pursued by the crusaders back through the gates and into the city. Arnaud, the Cistercian abbot-commander, is supposed to have been asked how to tell Cathars from Catholics. His reply, recalled by Caesar of Heisterbach, a fellow Cistercian, thirty years later was "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius."—"Kill them all, the Lord will recognise His own."[31][32] The doors of the church of St Mary Magdalene were broken down and the refugees dragged out and slaughtered. Reportedly, 7,000 people died there. Elsewhere in the town many more thousands were mutilated and killed. Prisoners were blinded, dragged behind horses, and used for target practice.[33] What remained of the city was razed by fire. Arnaud wrote to Pope Innocent III, "Today your Holiness, twenty thousand heretics were put to the sword, regardless of rank, age, or sex."[34][35] The permanent population of Béziers at that time was then probably no more than 5,000, but local refugees seeking shelter within the city walls could conceivably have increased the number to 20,000.

After the success of his siege of Carcassonne, which followed the massacre at Béziers, Simon de Montfort was designated as leader of the Crusader army. Prominent opponents of the Crusaders were Raymond-Roger de Trencavel, viscount of Carcassonne, and his feudal overlord Peter II, the king of Aragon, who held fiefdoms and had a number of vassals in the region. Peter died fighting against the crusade on 12 September 1213 at the Battle of Muret. Simon was killed on 25 June 1218 after maintaining a siege of Toulouse for nine months.[36]

The war ended in the Treaty of Paris (1229), by which the king of France dispossessed the house of Toulouse of the greater part of its fiefs, and that of the Trencavels (Viscounts of Béziers and Carcassonne) of the whole of their fiefs. The independence of the princes of the Languedoc was at an end. But in spite of the wholesale massacre of Cathars during the war, Catharism was not yet extinguished.

In 1215, the bishops of the Catholic Church met at the Fourth Council of the Lateran under Pope Innocent III. One of the key goals of the council was to combat the heresy of the Cathars.

The Inquisition was established in 1229 to uproot the remaining Cathars. Operating in the south at Toulouse, Albi, Carcassonne and other towns during the whole of the 13th century, and a great part of the 14th, it finally succeeded in extirpating the movement. Cathars who refused to recant were hanged, or burnt at the stake.[37]

From May 1243 to March 1244, the Cathar fortress of Montségur was besieged by the troops of the seneschal of Carcassonne and the archbishop of Narbonne. On 16 March 1244, a large and symbolically important massacre took place, where over 200 Cathar Perfects were burnt in an enormous fire at the prat dels cremats near the foot of the castle. Moreover, the Church decreed lesser chastisements against laymen suspected of sympathy with Cathars, at the 1235 Council of Narbonne.[38]

Inquisitors required heretical sympathisers – repentant first offenders – to sew a yellow cross onto their clothes.[39]

A popular though as yet unsubstantiated theory holds that a small party of Cathar Perfects escaped from the fortress before the massacre at prat dels cremats. It is widely held in the Cathar region to this day that the escapees took with them le tresor cathar. What this treasure consisted of has been a matter of considerable speculation: claims range from sacred Gnostic texts to the Cathars' accumulated wealth.

Hunted by the Inquisition and deserted by the nobles of their districts, the Cathars became more and more scattered fugitives: meeting surreptitiously in forests and mountain wilds. Later insurrections broke out under the leadership of Bernard of Foix, Aimery of Narbonne[disambiguation needed] and Bernard Délicieux (a Franciscan friar later prosecuted for his adherence to another heretical movement, that of the Spiritual Franciscans) at the beginning of the 14th century. But by this time the Inquisition had grown very powerful. Consequently, many were summoned to appear before it. Precise indications of this are found in the registers of the Inquisitors, Bernard of Caux, Jean de St Pierre, Geoffroy d'Ablis, and others. The parfaits only rarely recanted, and hundreds were burnt. Repentant lay believers were punished, but their lives were spared as long as they did not relapse. Having recanted, they were obliged to sew yellow crosses onto their outdoor clothing and to live apart from other Catholics, at least for a while.

After several decades of harassment and re-proselytising, and perhaps even more importantly, the systematic destruction of their religious texts, the sect was exhausted and could find no more adepts. The leaders of a Cathar revival in the Pyrenean foothills, Peire and Jacques Autier, were executed in 1310. Catharism disappeared from the northern Italian cities after the 1260s, under pressure from the Inquisition. After 1330, the records of the Inquisition contain very few proceedings against Cathars. The last known Cathar perfectus in the Languedoc, Guillaume Bélibaste, was executed in 1321.

Other movements, such as the Waldensians and the pantheistic Brethren of the Free Spirit, which suffered persecution in the same area, survived in remote areas and in small numbers into the 14th and 15th centuries. Some Waldensian ideas were absorbed into early Protestant sects, such as the Hussites, Lollards, and the Moravian Church (Herrnhuters of Germany).

After the suppression of Catharism, the descendants of Cathars were at times required to live outside towns and their defences. They thus retained a certain Cathar identity, despite having returned to the Catholic religion.

Any use of the term "Cathar" to refer to people after the suppression of Catharism in the 14th century is a cultural or ancestral reference, and has no religious implication. Nevertheless, interest in the Cathars, their history, legacy and beliefs continues. The publication of the book Crusade against the Grail by the young German Otto Rahn in the 1930s rekindled interest in the connection between the Cathars and the Holy Grail. Rahn was convinced that the 13th century work Parzival by Wolfram von Eschenbach was a veiled account of the Cathars. His research attracted the attention of the Nazi government and in particular of Heinrich Himmler, who made him archaeologist in the SS. Also, the Cathars have been depicted in popular books such as The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail and Labyrinth.

The castle of Montségur was razed after 1244; the current fortress follows French military architecture of the 17th century
The term Pays Cathare, French meaning "Cathar Country" is used to highlight the Cathar heritage and history of the region where Catharism was traditionally strongest. This area is centred around fortresses such as Montségur and Carcassonne; also the French département of the Aude uses the title Pays Cathare in tourist brochures.[40] These areas have ruins from the wars against the Cathars which are still visible today.

Some criticise the promotion of the identity of Pays Cathare as an exaggeration for tourist purposes. Actually, most of the promoted Cathar castles were not built by Cathars but by local lords and later many of them were rebuilt and extended for strategic purposes. Good examples of these are the magnificent castles of Queribus and Peyrepertuse which are both perched on the side of precipitous drops on the last folds of the Corbieres mountains. They were for several hundred years frontier fortresses belonging to the French crown and most of what you will see there today in their well preserved remains dates from a post-Cathar era. The Cathars sought refuge at these sites. Many consider the County of Foix to be the actual historical centre of Catharism.

The principal legacy of the Cathar movement is in the poems and songs of the Cathar troubadors, though this artistic legacy is only a smaller part of the wider Occitan linguistic and artistic heritage. Recent artistic projects concentrating on the Cathar element in Provençal and troubador art include commercial recording projects by Thomas Binkley, electric hurdy-gurdy artist Valentin Clastrier and his CD Heresie dedicated to the church at Cathars,[41] La Nef,[42] and Jordi Savall.[43]

See also:

Antonin Gadal
Crusades
The four Cathar castles above Lastours.
Manisola

Notes:

1.^ "Cathari". New International Encyclopedia. 1905.
2.^ Pegg, Mark (2001), "On Cathars, Albigenses, and good men of Languedoc", Journal of Medieval History 27 (2): 181–19.
3.^ Pegg, Mark (2006), "Heresy, good men, and nomenclature", in Frassetto, Michael, Heresy and the Persecuting Society in the Middle Ages, Studies in the History of Christian Traditions, Leiden: Brill, pp. 227–39.
4.^ Lambert 1998, p. 31
5.^ St John of Damascus, On Heresies Fathers of the Church Vol. XXXVII: Saint John of Damascus: Writings, page 125. Trans. Frederic H Chase, Jr. Catholic University of America/Fathers of the Church, Inc. 1958.
6.^ Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series, Volume 14. I Nice AD 325 (Canons of the Council of Nicaea) page 20. Trans. Henry R Percival. Philip Schaff, Henry Wace, Editors. Charles Scribner's Sons, 1900 (Reprinted by Hendrickson Publishers, Jan 2012).
7.^ Dondaine, Antoine OP (1939) (in France), Un traité neo-manichéen du XIIIe siècle: Le Liber de duobus principiis, suivi d'un fragment de rituel Cathare, Rome: Institutum Historicum Fratrum Praedicatorum.
8.^ See especially R.I. Moore's The Origins of European Dissent, and the collection of essays Heresy and the Persecuting Society in the Middle Ages: Essays on the Work of R.I. Moore for a consideration of the origins of the Cathars, and proof against identifying earlier heretics in the West, such as those identified in 1025 at Monforte, outside Milan, as being Cathars. Also see Heresies of the High Middle Ages, a collection of pertinent documents on Western heresies of the High Middle Ages, edited by Walter Wakefield and Austin P. Evans.
9.^ See Emmanuel LeRoy Ladurie's Montaillou: the Promised Land of Error for a respected analysis of the social context of these last French Cathars, and Power and Purity by Carol Lansing for a consideration of 13th-century Catharism in Orvieto.
10.^ Chesterton, G. K. (1910). What's Wrong with the World.
11.^ The Gnostic Bible, Google Books.
12.^ a b c d e f William M Johnston. Encylcopedia of Monasticism. Fitzroy Dearborn Publishers, 2000. p. 252. ISBN 1-57958-090-4.
13.^ Murray, Alexander. Suicide in the Middle Ages. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0‐19‐820539‐2.
14.^ Barber, M. (2000). The Cathars: Dualist heretics in Languedoc in the High Middle Ages, pp. 103–4.
15.^ "Cathari", Columbia Encyclopedia, Columbia University Press, 2007.
16.^ "Albigensians", Encyclopædia 2, The Free dictionary
17.^ Lambert, Malcolm D (1998), The Cathars, p. 41, "Bernard's biographer identifies another group in Toulouse which he calls Arians, who have sometimes been identified as Cathars but the evidence is scant. It is most likely that the first Cathars to penetrate Languedoc appealed,..."
18.^ Luscombe, David; Riley-Smith, Jonathan (2004), The new Cambridge medieval history: c. 1024 – c. 1198, p. 522, "Even though his biographer does not describe their beliefs, Arians would have been an appropriate label for moderate dualists with an unorthodox Christology, and the term was certainly later used in Languedoc to describe Cathars".
19.^ Johnston, Ruth A (2011), All Things Medieval: An Encyclopedia of the Medieval World, p. 115, "However, they became converts to Arian Christianity, which later developed into Catharism. Arian and Cathar doctrines were sufficiently different from Catholic doctrine that the two branches were incompatible".
20.^ Kienzle, Beverly Mayne (2001), Cistercians, heresy, and Crusade in Occitania, 1145–1229, p. 92, "The term ‘Arian' is often joined with ’Manichean' to designate Cathars. Geoffrey's comment implies that he and others called those heretics ’weavers', whereas they called themselves ’Arians'. Moreover, the Arians, who could have been…".
21.^ Townsend, Anne Bradford (2008), The Cathars of Languedoc as heretics: From the perspectives of..., Union Institute and University, p. 9, "The Cathars did not accept the Church doctrine of Jesus being the "Son of God." They believed that Jesus was not embodied in the human form but an angel (Docetic Christology), which echoed back to the Arian controversy".
22.^ Church Schism & Corruption, p. 482, "In the book "Massacre at Montsegur" (a book widely regarded by medievalists as having a pronounced, pro-Cathar bias) the Cathars are referred to as "Western Buddhists" because of their belief that the Doctrine of "resurrection" taught".
23.^ "Cathari," in the Catholic Encyclopedia of 1917 (newadvent.org).
24.^ a b Encyclopedia Britannica. "Cathari". Retrieved 2011-11-27.
25.^ a b Gilles CH Nullens. "Bogomils and Cathars". Retrieved 2011-11-26.
26.^ Malcalm D. Lambert. The Cathars. Blackwell Publishing. p. 70f. ISBN 0-631-14343-2.
27.^ Malcalm D. Lambert publisher=Blackwell Publishing. Medievil Hersy:Popular Movements from the Gregorian Reform to the Reformation. p. 140. ISBN 0-631-22275-8.
28.^ Robert I Moore. The Birth of Heresy. Medieval Academy of America, 1995. p. 137. ISBN 0-8020-7659-9.
29.^ Johnson 1976, p. 251.
30.^ Perrottet, Anthony ‘Tony’ (9 May 2010), "The Besieged and the Beautiful in Languedoc", The New York Times, retrieved 11 May 2010.
31.^ of Heisterbach, Caesarius (1851), Strange, J, ed., Caesarius Heiserbacencis monachi ordinis Cisterciensis, Dialogus miraculorum, 2, Cologne: JM Heberle, pp. 296–8, "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eis". Caesarius (c) was a Cistercian Master of Novices.
32.^ Another Cistercian writing a few years after the events makes no mention of this remark whilst Caesar of Heisterbach wrote forty years later, however they are consistent with Arnaud's report to the Pope Innocent III about the massacre. See Moore, John Clare (2003), Pope Innocent III (1160/61–1216): To Root Up and to Plant, Brill, p. 180, ISBN 90‐04‐12925‐1
33.^ Johnson 1976, p. 252.
34.^ Patrologia Latinae cursus completus, Latina, 216, Paris: J-P Migne, col. 139.
35.^ William, MD Sibly (2003), The Chronicle of William of Puylaurens: The Albigensian Crusade and Its Aftermath, Boydell Press, p. 128, ISBN 0‐85115‐925‐7.
36.^ Chanson de la Croisade Albigeoise laisse 205.
37.^ Martin, Sean (2005). The Cathars. Pocket Essentials. pp. 105–121. ISBN 1-904048-33-1.
38.^ Innocent IV (1252) (Bull), Ad exstirpanda.
39.^ Weis, René (2000), The Yellow Cross: The Story of the Last Cathars, New York: Alfred A Knopf, pp. 11–12.
40.^ Pays Cathare
41.^ L'Agonie du Languedoc: Claude Marti / Studio der frühen Musik – Thomas Binkley, dir. EMI "Reflexe" 1C 063-30 132 [LP-Stereo]1975
42.^ La Nef. Montségur: La tragédie cathare. Dorian Recordings.DOR-90243
43.^ Savall The Forgotten Kingdom: The Cathar Tragedy – The Albigensian Crusade AVSA9873 A+C Alia Vox 2009

References:

This article incorporates text from a publication now in the public domain: Chisholm, Hugh, ed. (1911). Encyclopædia Britannica (11th ed.). Cambridge University Press.
A Most Holy War: The Albigensian Crusade and the Battle for Christendom. Oxford: Oxford University Press. 2008.
Johnson, Paul (1976), A History of Christianity, Atheneum, ISBN 0‐689‐70591‐3.
Heresies of the High Middle Ages, Walter Wakefield and Austin P. Evans. Columbia University Press (15 October 1991). Original source documents in translation.
Barber, M. (2000). The Cathars: Dualist heretics in Languedoc in the High Middle Ages. The Medieval world. Harlow: Longman.
Bernard Gui, The Inquisitor's Guide: A Medieval Manual on Heretics, translated by Janet Shirley (Ravenhall Books, 2006). A new translation of the fifth part of Gui's famous manual.
Riparelli, Enrico (2008) (in Italian), Il volto del Cristo dualista. Da Marcione ai catari, Bern: Peter Lang, ISBN 978‐303911490‐0
Weber, NA, "Albigenses", The Catholic Encyclopædia, New Advent.
Weber, NA (1908), "Cathari", The Catholic Encyclopaedia, New Advent.
Mann, Judith (2002), The Trail of Gnosis, Gnosis Traditions Press
Histories of the Cathars: Montaillou: The Promised Land of Error, Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie, trans. Barbara Bray, Vintage Books, 1979
The Devil's World: Heresy and Society 1100–1320, Andrew P. Roach (Harlow; Pearson Longman, 2005)
Markale, Jean, Montsegur and the Mystery of the Cathars, Inner Traditions.
The Cathars, Malcolm Lambert, Blackwell, 1998
The Perfect Heresy, Stephen O'Shea, Barnes & Noble Books, New York, 2000, ISBN 0-7607-5219-2
Magee, Dr MD (12 December 2002), Heresy and the Inquisition II Persecution of Heretics.
Foucault's Pendulum, Umberto Eco, Ballantine, 1988
The Inquisition Record of Jacques Fournier Bishop of Pamiers (English translation by Nancy P. Stork)
The Cathars: The Most Successful Heresy of the Middle Ages, Sean Martin, Pocket Essentials 2005
The Corruption of Angels: The Great Inquisition of 1245–1245, 2001, Mark Gregory Pegg. (Princeton University Press, 2001). A new take on Catharism in Languedoc—argues against any kind of doctrinal unity of mid-13th-century Cathars.
Jean Duvernoy's transcriptions of inquisitorial manuscripts, many hitherto unpublished
Power and Purity: Cathar Heresy in Medieval Italy Carol Lansing (Oxford University Press, 1998). Cathars outside of Languedoc
Berlioz, Jacques (1994) (in French), Tuez-les tous Dieu reconnaîtra les siens. Le massacre de Béziers et la croisade des Albigeois vus par Césaire de Heisterbach, Loubatières. A discussion of the command "Kill them all, God will know his own." recorded by a contemporary Cistercian Chronicler.
Roberts, David (May), "In France, an ordeal by fire and a monster weapon called 'Bad Neighbour'", Smithsonian Magazine: 40–51. [Cathars & Catholic Conflict]
George, David, The Crusade of Innocents has as its plot the encounter between a Cathar girl and the leader of the concurrent Chlldren's Crusade Stephen of Cloyes.
Maris, Yves (2006), Cathars – Memories of an initiate, AdA.
Arnold, John H, Inquisition & Power, Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, ISBN 0‐8122‐3618‐1. An excellent and meticulously researched work dealing with Catharism in the context of the Inquisition's evolution; analyses Inquisitorial practice as the construction of the "confessing subject".
The Origins of European Dissent R.I. Moore. Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1994.
Peters, Edward, ed. (1980), Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, University of Pennsylvania Press. A collection of primary sources, some on Catharism.
The Formation of a Persecuting Society R.I. Moore. Oxford: Blackwell, 1992.
Inquisition and Medieval Society James Given. Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 1992.
Caernaii, Petrus Vallis (in Latin) (PDF), Historia Albigensium et Sacri Belli in Eos, Migne Patrologia Latina, 213, 0543-0711. An history of the Albigensian war told by a contemporary.
Moreland, Miles (1992), Miles Away: A Walk Across France, New York: Random House, ISBN 0-679-42527-6.

I tend to think that my internet posting is just foreplay for what's coming. I know that I'm just scratching the surface of the subjects I have touched upon. I continue to mostly talk to myself -- which is OK. I don't need to lead -- and I don't expect people to follow. I'm simply taking a road less traveled -- to see where it leads. Here is some cool music to guide your solar system governance journey (or something like that):

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQuH2JPjOiY&feature=related
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziH2yE3NdO4&feature=related
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnbHCSit-M0&feature=related
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-w4PK2K5zA&feature=related
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hANZBqimFlI&feature=related
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtG6jHJW1nU&feature=related
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRhoWQX2OF8&feature=related
8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-No-226O0tg&feature=related

I just purchased DVD's of all ten seasons of Stargate SG-1 -- so I'll be considering Solar System Governance and the United States of the Solar System in that context. I have no idea where my journey will lead me -- and I'm in no particular hurry to get wherever it is that I might be going. It might be a good destination -- or it might end badly. The main idea is to have a Solar-System View -- rather than a World-View or a Local-View. The Truth is Out There. I have spoken of having a strategically-located 600 square-foot office-apartment -- but what if I had a Sport Model UFO which served as an office-apartment-vehicle?? I have no clue. I'm a rebel without a clue -- but it's sort of fun and interesting. Why is my fantasy-reality any less legitimate than that of a respectable-retentive with their head up their you-know-where???

Thanks for the cathars post Oxy good work.

Otto Rahn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Rahn

"My ancient forbears were heathens, and my ancestors were heretics. For their exoneration I collect the pieces that Rome left over." (Luzifers Hofgesind, i.e. Lucifer's Court)

Manichaeism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manicheanism

Antonin Gadal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonin_Gadal

THE COURT
OF
LUCIFER
A Voyage with Europe’s benevolent Ghostsby
Otto Rahn
Translated by
Craig Gawler
http://www.scribd.com/doc/68217996/OTTO-RAHN-Lucifer-s-Court-a-Heretic-s-Journey-in-Search-of-the-Light-Bringers





The Holy Grail is when our Military Complex found out about Energy, UFO's, time travel and the nature of the world....






Dualism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism

Thank-you magamud. I think I need to take a closer look at church history between the Great Commission and the Great Schism in the context of the Great Controversy.

The Orthodoxymoron Secret Handshake (OSH) is a Nervous Breakdown Tremour (NBT). "Hand-Shake. Hand-Shake." The Orthodoxymoron Secret Sign (OSS) is Rocking Back and Forth in the Fetal Position (RBFFP).

Still no FOIA Response. Further WiFi blockage. Now I have to work in the woods to access this site. I feel a bit like the Waldenses or Jackson Curtis.

Thereis no church and no church history, same way as Power or such attitudes are only tales and mere a collection of blockades on "psychic" or religious behavior/feelings, which are meant to be the highest feelings of a Woomoon (Human) shared - which is and was the buildup of astral-layers around ethnic zones... Biospheres...

There are allegedly people through the millenia - hosted by Gaya-Sophia to rekindle their killersouldrama!
They are all here and synchron with all their victims beyond time on that served plattern, with all probabilitys converging, we just choose our indi session holon.

Thats not the main story here anyhow, so behind me Lordprince of OldEarth...

The Divine is free to rewrite any Covenant or Charter concerning our solar inheritance
and our divine mission as given via holy spirit/Purusha/Hunab Quo fractales.

Oxy, Your and our effort to consult on solar system govenants and our sane place in those shifting sands of time and meaning can only take practical forms and rather divine sublimation acts of kindness..-
remember

Thank-you Eartheart. I keep thinking about '2001: A Space Odyssey'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU4TQ1NTo50 I liked the behavior and attitudes of the major characters -- and I think this might've reflected a certain idealism and frontier spirit in the Earthly Powers That Be. I tend to think that some of them tried to Cheat the Devil -- and Lost -- BIG-TIME. Just speculation. I don't have a problem with the Solar System functioning as a big non-corrupt business -- but I have HUGE problems with the horror-stories I keep hearing. I keep getting the feeling that an Exploitive ET Rulership somehow got WAY out of control. I keep seeing insanity throughout history. The Solar System might have to be ruled with a Righteous Iron-Fist -- even with an idealistic United States of the Solar System. I am big on law and order. I do not wish to just hold-hands and sing 'Kumbaya'. Perhaps we need a Solar System 'Anheuser' (in '2012') -- if you know what I mean?! Anna v Anheuser??!! Wouldn't THAT be interesting??!!

I continue to wonder about the 'Law of God' in Genesis, Deuteronomy, Matthew, Romans, and Revelation. I detect elevated spirituality in whoever really wrote (and rewrote??) the Bible -- but the God and Law of God seem to be somewhat problematic. I seek clarity and convincing answers -- but I am finding mostly confusion and contradiction. What about the God and Law of God as revealed in the book 'Desire of Ages'?? You MUST think this matter through -- whether you wish to -- or not. Law is at the center of Everything. If we get 'LAW' wrong -- we get Everything wrong. I tend to think that people should be devotionally-religious (or at least privately-spiritual) regardless of whether they believe in God or not -- or whether there really is a God or not. Work Hard. Play Hard. Pray Hard. I continue to consider the '1928 Book of Common Prayer' as being a possible 'Ecumenical Middle Way'. I tend to do much more researching and contemplating than I do worshipping and praising -- as I continue to experience a profound crisis of faith relative to who God really is -- and why we might need to beg for various graces and favors -- and why God might desire worship and praise. I tend to think that God does not require begging, worship, and praise -- and that simple devotional studies are a form of prayer. I seek to avoid the 'Appeasement of the Gods'. What sort of God might require begging, worship, praise, and human-sacrifice?? What sort of God is revealed in the Sacrifice of the Mass?? Think about it.

I'm tending to be more alternative truth seeking than emotional and loving -- and to some, it might seem as if I'm on the wrong road -- or even a dark path. I'm obviously not attempting to win friends and influence people. Attempting to face reality has been rather destructive -- even though I have been attempting to do the right thing. Perhaps I should give in -- join the Masons (you wouldn't believe who invited me to join) -- go back to church -- drink lots of Kool-Aid -- say all the right things -- and be as rich and respectable as possible. I guess I started this quest in an attempt to be happy -- but just the opposite has been the result -- and things are getting progressively worse. I'm trying to see things from all points of view -- which seems to get one nowhere. I tend to think that the closer one gets to the truth -- the more of a threat they become -- and the more of a target they become for intelligence-agencies and supernatural-agencies. So really, I continue to warn people that alternative questing will not make them happy. However, I continue to think that a critical mass of the population needs to go the extra mile regarding getting in touch with what's really going on behind the scenes -- without creating more problems than already exist. But I continue to NOT wish to wake everyone up -- and to cause societal instability. Most people do not have the time and energy to properly 'wake-up' -- so they might as well just keep sleeping -- as harsh as that might sound.

I just started watching 'Earth: Final Conflict' -- and it is EXCELLENT!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d50jaFpOgvs Notice especially, the Fourth Episode of Season Two, titled "Dimensions" -- while thinking about 'Archangelic Queens of Heaven and the United States of the Solar System'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDexIMotm18 Think of the two rival sisters as being Rival Archangels -- sort of like Lucifer and Michael. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmCjPlz9rXk&feature=relmfu Should the best attributes of both be combined?? Does a Nazi--Mason--Jesuit--Agent Queen rule this solar system?? Think about it -- and I don't mean to be mean. Is this a necessary evil?? Does a Secret Solar System Core need to exist?? It's getting MUCH more difficult to keep secrets -- with all of the communications and technology. The skeletons are falling out of the confessionals, ufos, and bases -- and things might get EXTREMELY ugly when the general public finds out what's REALLY been going on behind the scenes. I scare myself sometimes. Actually, most of the time. In a recent interview, Alex Collier wouldn't say a word about 'Angels' when asked -- even though I think he knows a helluva lot about them. He seemed to be afraid of the subject -- and in light of my pseudo-research -- I can't say that I blame him.

Siriusly, watch all of the 'Earth: Final Conflict' episodes. They REALLY bring this thread to life IMHO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsGQvQ17-aM I keep wondering if I were somewhat like one of the Talon leaders in antiquity?! I don't know why I think this might be the case. I seem to identify with Da'an. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgSD3Kdw1II Liam Kincaid reminds me of the Ancient Egyptian Deity. I LOVE Augur and his underground home (700 feet underneath a VERY cool church)!! Imagine having a pad like THAT underneath the Vatican!!! I LOVE his computer set-up (especially his hologram-assistant)!! I keep wondering if the Secret Government and Secret Space Program are somewhat illustrated in this excellent series?! I love the intellectual stimulation! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxa4ImBeqYA

I've simply been attempting to discover the way things REALLY are -- without making a big-deal about it. I wish to resolve problems -- rather than creating more trouble. I wonder what percentage of the general public will take the time and trouble to figure things out -- without going nuts?! I am committed to living a life of quiet desperation -- rather than running around like a chicken with it's head cut-off.

BTW -- I told someone a true story about someone telling me that they were going to walk on water -- and I don't think they believed me. That was a TRUE story -- and I think I can prove it -- if I have to. 911 records would be one source. I also have a witness to that event. The person was quite serious -- and this is just one more example of the very strange happenings in my pathetic life. I didn't ask for this madness -- and no one promised me a 'rose-garden'.

I 'like' listening to Bill Cooper -- even though I do not share all of his views and attitudes. Same goes for Sherry Shriner. Once again, I never know what the agendas and hidden-agendas are. I just present a lot of material which relates to the topic of this thread -- as possibilities. I make very few claims -- and I state very little with dogmatic-definiteness. Dr. Louis Venden told me not to be too definite -- because people who are too definite go off. Unfortunately, I think I went 'off' a very long time ago. The horror.

Why does it hurt so much when I post my comments?? I am VERY uncomfortable with most of my posts -- but I continue to make them -- to make all of us THINK. It's a nasty task -- but someone must do it. Is there anyone else on the internet who is taking an approach similar to my own?? I tend to doubt it. I tend to doubt a lot of things. 'Doubting-Thomas' would be shocked.

Now that I no longer have convenient WiFi access to this site at the local library -- it's going to be much easier for me to do what I've been trying to do for years now -- STOP POSTING. First, they blocked direct access to this site. Then, I figured-out a back-door entry to this site. Now, they've blocked that as well. So, I find myself sitting among the trees, with a very poor internet connection. Now, I can't even use the back-woods WiFi. I managed to get onto this site today, but this might just be a fluke. I'm trying to not get home internet again -- in an attempt to limit my internet activities. I'll check-in from time to time -- if I can -- but I feel moved by the Spirit to become VERY private -- and to move in a VERY different direction. Where I am going, you cannot follow. Perhaps it is time -- at long last -- to clean house -- in more ways than one -- and simply move-on. Namaste and Godspeed.

More Sherry Shriner. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sherrytalkradio/2012/10/23/monday-night-with-sherry-shriner Once again, I am not a true-believer -- but this show is sort of a 'Galactic Enquirer' -- which adds another dimension to this thread. Perhaps it is more constructive to study the history of conspiracy-theories -- rather than hanging on the every word of the latest conspiracy-theorist. Just 'cause someone is a nut-case -- doesn't mean they're wrong. Just 'cause you're paranoid -- doesn't mean they're not out to get you. Some People Say I'm a Completely Ignorant Fool. Fool Rule. Beware of Sleeper-Cells of Completely Ignorant Fools. See Something?? Say Something!! The Corrupt Rule the Stupid. Those with the Gold -- Make the Rules. Those with the Gold -- RULE. It's a Rat-Race -- and the Rats are Winning. I have been reduced to modeling idealistic political and theological modalities. Now I'm going to watch Stargate SG-1 "The Powers That Be". It's a classic. Please continue to treat this thread as Political and Theological Science-Fiction -- which might contain some truth -- especially if one takes the thread as a whole -- rather than as a truncated cone. I'm not a scholar of my own thread -- but I wish that I were -- and I will attempt to become such a soul -- rather than merely existing as a completely ignorant fool. I continue to recommend studying this thread in the context of the original Project Avalon -- and the current Mists of Avalon. I still need to study all of Brook's threads -- as well as reading all of 'The Holy Tablets'. I just noticed that most of Brook's posts have been deleted. Why??? Hopefully they have been saved. Will they reappear at some point in the future??? I would love to see a book by Brook. Does one already exist??? I still seem to have a mental and spiritual block regarding this heavy Egyptology -- but I continue to pick away at it -- slowly and uncertainly. I keep getting the sinking-feeling that I have a nasty reincarnational-history connected with Ancient Egypt -- and I am extremely apprehensive regarding potentially opening some sort of a Pandora's Box. I enjoy this site -- and all of the members -- yet I don't seem to gel very well. I doubt there is ANY web-site were I might 'fit-in'. Again -- I have no idea what constitutes Absolute Truth -- and I trust No One -- Human or Otherwise. I guess I'm attempting to consider as many possibilities as possible regarding the State of the Solar System. The more I think about it -- the less I wish to talk about it. I hint at a lot of things -- and then just leave it at that. I am most open on this thread. I don't talk about this madness in 'real-life' -- yet I know that a lot goes on behind my back 'in real-life'. This should never have happened. What happens in 'The Mists of Avalon' should stay in 'The Mists of Avalon'. Check this out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=98GdebTOIak Thanks to Carol for bringing this to our attention. Remember what I previously suggested regarding the Outer Limits of the United States of the Solar System??

Consider Ma'el in the description below the listed links. Is Ma'el a type of Christ?? Is Ma'el the equivalent of the Archangel Michael (on a soul-level)?? What if Da'an is the reincarnated Ma'el?? Vala Ma'el Da'an?? What is the relationship between Osiris, Isis, Ra, Horus, Set, Ma'el, Zo'or, Da'an, Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer, Serqet, Dogma, Legion, Contact, "V", Orthodoxymoron, Liam Kincaid, the Trinity, Archangelic Queens of Heaven, and the United States of the Solar System?? You might be surprised. The Power Vacuum was specifically designed to clean-up a mess. Well, I've collected a lot of dirt, and I think I might need to clean-house and take-out the trash. The whole thing stinks to high-heaven. I played a dirty trick. Sorry about that. "Unto 2300 Days, then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed" (restored to it's rightful state). See Daniel Chapter 8. Has the Last-Chance passed?? Shall the filthy remain filthy?? Do you feel dirty?? Do you feel lucky?? I continue to be haunted by a conversation I had with someone, a couple of days before the Fukushima disaster, when they said they were sorry we couldn't work together, because too much water had gone under the bridge. My response was 'Oh well'. I think about that encounter nearly every day. One final warning to NOT pave the road to hell with my good intentions. I think I might like to live in the equivalent of Augur's underground home (complete with the church and computers) and travel throughout the solar system in a Sport Model UFO (complete with an Unlimited-Access Badge)!! BTW, have I met at least a couple of Beautiful Young Pleiadian Women (BYPW) recently?? Is something a brewing?? Hmmmmmm. What Would Tone3Jaguar Say?? Siriusly, a small room in a base (with a Cray) and and an Unlimited-Access Badge would be plenty. I can bum rides on UFOs and Mag-Lev Trains -- eat in Military Cafeterias (like Vala Mal Doran) -- and schedule practice-time on pipe-organs!! I'd simply like to be some sort of a Behind the Scenes Observer (who writes reports which are taken seriously). I'm not into chasing, fighting, manipulation, and corruption. I like to watch. Please, please, please study this thread from beginning to end. I intend to -- repeatedly. Namaste and Godspeed.

Around two million years ago, the Taelons arrived within the solar system, where they pulverised the moons surrounding Saturn, and thus created the rings. This was done in order to hide Taelon probes. This was done with the intention of observing the human race developing on Earth. This served as an excellent hiding place for the Companions. (Episode: Summit) The Taelons were more evolved 20,000 years ago than in their modern incarnation. (Episode: Keys to the Kingdom)

Two-thousand years ago they secretly dispatched one of their most distinguished members known as Ma'el to Earth. Ma'el altered the path of Human evolution dramatically. (Episode: Dimensions) This event occured during the first star flight by the Taelons. Ma'el's mission was a one way journey, and he was tasked with determining if an encounter between the Taelons and Humanity was potentially mutually beneficial. This was one of the reasons why the Companions later embarked on the journey to Earth. If Ma'els findings were negative, the Taelons would depart Earth. Unknown to them, Ma'el had grown attached to Humanity, and believed that his fellow Taelons would exploit the species, and thus he told them not to come to Earth under any circumstances. However, if they chose to come anyway, his message was to treat Humanity as equals, in the hope that Humans would become true equals to the Companions. (Episode: The Secret of One Strand Hill) He also helped engineer Humans to become a psychic race, in order for them to tap into the Commonality, and allow the Taelons to better accept them. (Episode: If You Could Read My Mind) Ma'el left his starship hidden off the coast of Peru, located 150 feet beneath the Pacific ocean. During that time, Ma'el formed relations with the Inca people, and instituted counter measures to prevent the Taelons from finding his starship. (Episode: The Once and Future World) As he was dying, Ma'el took a young Roman Senator known as Salvius Julianus and made him into a surrogate to serve his needs. After hiding his vessel, Ma'el allowed Julianus access to its systems so he could determine the Taelons motives when they arrived on Earth. If they were hostile, the Roman was charged with destroying them, in order to ensure that mankind would develop unchallenged. (Episode: Timebomb) Ma'el's final act was to encode his research into a relic that required the presence of both a Taelon and a Human to activate it -- revealing that mankind was the missing evolutionary link between the Companions and the Jaridians. Thus, without humanity, both species would be doomed to extinction. (Episode: Abduction)

The Taelons secretly monitored Earth, in order to determine when to contact the Human Race. (Episode: Scorched Earth) This program began at least one year before official contact, and involved the secret abduction of at least 50 humans for experimentation. (Episode: First Breath) At the time, Humanity was engaged in the SI War which ended when a mysterious Quantum Vortex was detonated, which killed 100,000 people. The Taelon Synod ordered the unleashing of this weapon to prevent nuclear holocaust, yet still keep Humanity in a state of war, so the Taelons could play saviors. They adjudicated the Sino-Indian Peace Accords, in order to bring a lasting peace in Asia. (Episode: Scorched Earth) They used their advanced technology to aid in combating world hunger and curing hundreds of diseases. (Episode: Decision) The Taelons were divided on the issue of Humanity, and how to combat the threat posed by the Jaridians. Some Taelons were of the opinion that mankind needed to be turned into a weapon against the Jaridians, while others believed that a joining of the species was needed in order to reclaim an important genetic link that had been lost in their search for perfection. (Episode: The First of its Kind) Humanity was at a crossroads in their evolution, which the Taelons intended to observe and supervise. (Episode: Decision)

Just for a change of pace, I thought that I'd take a look at the C.B. Fisk pipe-organ company. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._B._Fisk

C.B. Fisk, Inc. is a company in Gloucester, Massachusetts that designs and builds mechanical action pipe organs. It was founded in 1961 by Charles Brenton Fisk (1925-1983), the first American organ builder to build significant tracker organs in the 20th century. His study of early American and European instruments led him to return to mechanical action and to set a new course for American organ building. He modeled his shop on collaborative enterprise, launching the careers of four other North American organ builders and providing the foundation for those who carry on the company he founded. http://cbfisk.com/

Born in Cambridge Mass, Fisk loved music and grew up tinkering with hi-fi equipment. He was a chorister at Christ Church on Cambridge Common where E. Power Biggs was Choirmaster. Charles showed such intelligence as a young man that when he was drafted during WWII, he was sent to Los Alamos where he worked for Robert Oppenheimer on the Manhattan Project. He was 18 years old. After the war he attended Harvard and Stanford, majoring in Nuclear Physics, and worked briefly at Brookhaven National Laboratories, but during his Stanford years decided to pursue a career in organbuilding.

He apprenticed himself first with John Swinford in Redwood City, California, and then with Walter Holtkamp, Sr. in Cleveland, Ohio, who was at the time the most avant garde of American organbuilders. He went on to become a partner and later sole owner of the Andover Organ Company. In 1961 he established C. B. Fisk near his childhood summer home on Cape Ann in Massachusetts.

Charles Fisk's style of leadership, modeled after the team of scientists he worked with on the Manhattan Project, involved his co-workers in the day-to-day decisions about the concepts and construction of the instruments. The same people who were drawn by Charles Fisk's ideas carry on his work and share their insight and experience with another generation of organbuilders after his death in 1983.

Just two years following the installation of a major pipe organ in Auer Hall on Indiana University's Bloomington campus, the Jacobs School of Music has announced the acquisition of a second major instrument built by C.B. Fisk, America's leading organ builder. The acquisition will soon make the Jacobs School of Music home to three Fisk organs, the largest number of instruments by the builder in any one location in the world. The third, known as Opus 142, is a three-manual, six-stop, practice organ that will be installed in May in the Music Addition practice facilities. http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/21762.html

The workshop attracted young co-workers who combined their talents in music, art, engineering, and cabinet making to build organs that redefined modern American organbuilding. Always experimenting, C. B. Fisk was the first modern American organbuilder to abandon the electro-pneumatic action of the early twentieth century and return to the mechanical (tracker) key and stop action of historical European and early American instruments. The Fisk firm went on to construct what were at the time the largest four-manual mechanical action instruments built in America in the 20th century, first at Harvard University's church in 1967 (awaiting installation at a Presbyterian church in Austin, Texas[1]), then again at House of Hope Church in St. Paul, Minnesota, in 1979.

The company has also built a number of instruments based on historical organs, among them one at Wellesley College patterned after North German organs of the early 17th century, one at the University of Michigan in the manner of the Saxon builder Gottfried Silbermann, and a three-manual instrument at Rice University modeled on the work of the 19th century French master builder Aristide Cavaillé-Coll. The large four-manual dual-temperament instrument at Stanford University's Memorial Church uses modern technology to combine many different aspects of historical organ styles. The firm built concert hall organs for the Meyerson Symphony Center in Dallas, Minato Mirai Concert Hall in Yokohama, and Benaroya Hall in Seattle. In 2003 C. B. Fisk built a five-manual organ for the Cathedral in Lausanne, Switzerland, the first American organ to be made for a European cathedral. In its fifty years C.B. Fisk, Inc. has completed over 90 instruments in 23 U.S. states, Switzerland, Japan, and South Korea. http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/10/what-a-set-of-pipes/

On the Feast of the Assumption...the afternoon service in Saint-Sulpice ended with a Laudate Dominum by Gounod. When the last echo of the chancel organ had died away Widor took six notes from the final line of the Gounod music and announced them boldly in octaves with full organ, both manual and pedal, and then followed such improvisation as I had never heard before and have seldom heard since, not even by himself. Those who know him only by his symphonies, brilliant as they are, can form no idea of the wonderful force, brilliancy, and spontaneity of his improvisations. One day a pupil of his who did not speak much French requested me to ask him how he had learned to improvise so wonderfully. Widor promptly replied: "By writing. When I stop writing I cease to be able to extemporize well." -- S. Wesley Sears. August 15, 1904

The only extended form of improvising I heard him do was the toccata form--something like his famous Toccata in F. He always brought the music to two climaxes of power during the piece, and I could never describe to you the thrill of those mixtures and the smooth 32' Pedal Reed--and he ended softly. He usually employed a Gregorian theme from the liturgy of the Mass. -- Edward Shippen Barnes, 1921

He was in great form...improvising on the Gregorian tones of the Mass being sung at the other end of the church, playing a Bach fugue at the offertory, and finally at the close of the service turning the full power of the organ loose in a brilliant toccata improvised on the phrases which we had just heard from the choir. I had never before heard a master improvise. It seemed incredible at the time, and although I soon learned that improvisation had reached a high plane among French organists, Widor's feats, even now, still seem incredible, not because they were spectacular, but because they were such profoundly good music. -- Alexander Russell, 1907

The postlude at the close of the service was generally an improvisation on one of the plainsong themes of the day. Widor was one of the greatest of improvisers, and on several occasions I have heard him improvise movements of such splendor as to rival the greatest movements of his symphonies. -- A.M. Henderson, 1937

He played...one of his nine symphonies. It was gloriously beautiful. The organ is the largest in Paris, with five keyboards, and in the chancel there was a choir of two hundred men. The music is still throbbing in my head and vibrating all through me--the long swelling chords, the low deep tones, the blending voices, the chanting priests, the incense, the light, the holiness of it all! The Catholic service without music is nothing; with music it is everything. I shall remember this morning always. -- Florence Adele Sloan, Sunday, May 13, 1894

The choir and gorgeously robed priests were filing in...and the small organ in the choir already in full blast. Then a priest intoned a few words, and suddenly the great instrument all about us crashed and thundered, lifting one clear off one's feet and removing all sense of gravity. Then the organ down in the choir answered, and again Widor pressed down the five banks of keys and we were riven with vast peals of sound. The ritual proceeded at the altar, while organ answered to organ, rumbling and rolling through the long nave and wafting up into the one hundred and eight foot arches of the clerestory. The music was all Gregorian, upon the tones of which Widor harmonized freely.

The Mass ended, the priests and choir formed a sort of recessional, a sortie it is called, and Widor began...a canon or plainsong moving along in the midst of swirling arpeggios of left and right hands alternately. I looked at the pedals, for the air moved along as majestically as if double octaves were being played; but no, the pedal was occupied solely with foundation work. I looked again at his hands in amazement, for the rippling fingers were carrying four-octave arpeggios and that powerful air must come from somewhere! And then I saw that the wonderful hands were not only carrying the whirling arpeggios but also supporting one another in giving out the legato theme of the piece. Always the right or left thumb or forefinger would pass along the note amid the rush of the figuration. And then the sonorous pedal trumpets took it up, but the hands merely added a counterpoint besides the rollicking arpeggios rolling up from the bass, six notes to the beat! And all this was a mere improvisation--harmony and all. I looked at the author of it expecting to see Promethean fire starting from his brows. He was simply calm and earnest about it, and now and then found time to drop a word to a friend seated at his side. -- Warren H. Miller, 1910

I was moved to tears by the Above Quotations. I believe there is a profound unity in the French Romantic toccata and French Romantic organs, combined with hymn improvisation, and perhaps some German Baroque Bach-style counterpoint! I wonder how Bach would have performed his 'Passacaglia and Fugue in C Minor' if he had been at Saint-Sulpice rather than at St. Thomas?! He might even have used the swell pedal! Perhaps he would have treated his listeners to an improvisation in the final measures of the fugue, which would have revealed all of heaven to mere mortals!! With reverence and awe, -- orthodoxymoron, 2012

Ortho,
Do you categorize Satan?

And if you do, what are your archetypes?

magamud wrote:Ortho,
Do you categorize Satan? And if you do, what are your archetypes?

I guess I think in terms of 'Good-Guys and/or Good-Gals -- and Bad-Guys and/or Bad-Gals' -- and I am unclear about the details. I suspect that Deception is Everywhere -- and I mean Everywhere. I have attempted to deal with a lot of possibilities in this thread -- but I still do not know if any of these possibilities are correct -- and which ones they might be. The truth of the matter might be beyond my comprehension. One race's Christ might be another race's Satan. This thing might be more complex than we can possibly imagine. I will continue to recommend studying this particular thread (and all of the links and suggested DVD's, books, etc.) as a preliminary investigation of 'Who's Who in the Galactic Zoo'. Anu? Who? Dr. Who? Who's on first? Siriusly, Humans might consider a Draconian Reptilian who hates Humanity as being 'Satan' -- but what if Humanity deserves the hatred and wrath of this hypothetical Reptilian 'Satan'?? What if a particular Grey is an Agent of Satan to Buffet Humanity?? I think I might've spoken to Lucifer and/or Satan -- but I'm not sure about that. I'm conceptualizing some VERY upsetting possibilities that I do NOT wish to discuss. I'm feeling as if I need to just drop the subject -- and put my life back together -- into some form of 'Normal' -- unless I'm destined for some sort of Secret Base (like I keep joking about). Then there might NEVER be 'Normal' ever again. BTW -- I've been called 'Satan' within this very site. Does someone know something about orthodoxymoron that I don't know about? When the 'Veil is Lifted' some of us might be shocked. The Horror. Consider this sobering quotation from the early writings of Ellen White:

"We must examine well the foundation of our hope, for we shall have to give a reason for it from the Scriptures. This delusion (spiritualism) will spread, and we shall have to contend with it face to face; and unless we are prepared for it, we shall be ensnared and overcome. But if we do what we can on our part to be ready for the conflict that is just before us, God will do His part, and His all-powerful arm will protect us. He would sooner send every angel out of glory to the relief of faithful souls, to make a hedge about them, than have them deceived and led away by the lying wonders of Satan.

I saw the rapidity with which this delusion was spreading. A train of cars was shown me, going with the speed of lightning. The angel bade me look carefully. I fixed my eyes upon the train. It seemed that the whole world was on board, that there could not be one left. Said the angel, “They are binding in bundles ready to burn.” Then he showed me the conductor, who appeared like a stately, fair person, whom all the passengers looked up to and reverenced. I was perplexed and asked my attending angel who it was. He said, “It is Satan. He is the conductor in the form of an angel of light. He has taken the world captive. They are given over to strong delusions, to believe a lie, that they may be damned. This agent, the next highest in order to him, is the engineer, and other of his agents are employed in different offices as he may need them, and they are all going with lightning speed to perdition.”

I asked the angel if there were none left. He bade me look in an opposite direction, and I saw a little company traveling a narrow pathway. All seemed to be firmly united, bound together by the truth, in bundles, or companies. Said the angel, “The third angel is binding, or sealing, them in bundles for the heavenly garner.” This little company looked careworn, as if they had passed through severe trials and conflicts. And it appeared as if the sun had just risen from behind a cloud and shone upon their countenances, causing them to look triumphant, as if their victories were nearly won.

I saw that the Lord has given the world opportunity to discover the snare. This one thing is evidence enough for the Christian, if there were no other; namely, that there is no difference made between the precious and the vile. Thomas Paine, whose body has now moldered to dust and who is to be called forth at the end of the one thousand years, at the second resurrection, to receive his reward and suffer the second death, is represented by Satan as being in heaven, and highly exalted there. Satan used him on earth as long as he could, and now he is carrying on the same work through pretensions of having Thomas Paine so much exalted and honored in heaven; as he taught here, Satan would make it appear that he is teaching in heaven. There are some who have looked with horror at his life and death, and his corrupt teachings while living, but who now submit to be taught by him, one of the vilest and most corrupt of men, one who despised God and His law." -- 'Early Writings' pgs. 88,89 by Ellen White.

I pick and choose with the Bible and Ellen White. I simultaneously accept and reject the Bible and Ellen White. They are excellent mental and spiritual exercises -- but who knows what the absolute theological truth really is? I understand that even the Jesuits study the writings of Ellen White (especially 'Great Controversy')! I don't tell people to join churches -- or to leave them. I do tell people to conduct an ongoing astronomy-centered, multidisciplinary study of science, governance, religion, fringe-research, science-fiction, and conspiracy-theories. What if Jesus turns out to be both good and bad -- as heretical as that sounds?? I wouldn't be surprised by ANYTHING at this point. I think that history (both secular and sacred) is very messy and very nasty. Should we consider the possibility of a Good Mary, Bad Mary, Good Jesus, and Bad Jesus?! I'm presently modeling the concept of a Human-Deity who is a composite of the best of everyone -- throughout history. Is there some merit to this approach?? What Would Jesus Say??

What if the 'Jesus Story' is more hidden and complex than we think? I'm presently interested in what Michael, Gabriel, and Lucifer might say about the 'Jesus Story'. I'm also very interested in what Isis-Cleopatra would say about the 'Jesus Story'. Albert Schweitzer was not convinced by the 'Jesus Story' -- but he was pursuaded with the 'Teachings Attributed to Jesus'. I keep thinking that the Bible is part fact and part fiction -- and that some of it is written symbolically and in code. Have we been dealing with some sort of an Egypt v Rome situation for thousands of years? What if Jesus is the God of the Old Testament -- with a remake?? I desire the most idealistic theology imaginable -- yet the reality seems to be just the opposite. I think this discontinuity drives a lot of people insane. Even Mother Teresa suffered from severe theological difficulties. My life has frankly been ruined by severe theological difficulties -- and my theological speculations within this site might've cost me my eternal-life -- or at least any significant role in the life hereafter. I have been attempting to idealistically combine the 1928 'Book of Common Prayer', the 'Desire of Ages', the 'Federalist Papers', and Sacred Classical Music -- into a Political and Theological Middle-Way -- yet even this effort has been somewhat unsatisfactory -- especially when no one will really discuss this in any sort of deep and meaningful way. What if Satan has been covertly ruling just about everything in this solar system -- for thousands of years?? What if Satan is about to 'come out of the closet' -- and rule this solar system openly for who knows how long?? I've been told that an attempted theocracy will be followed by an extermination. I SO wish to be idealistic concerning Solar System Politics and Religion -- but the decision seems to have been made at the highest levels of the universe that the Human Race will be TERMINATED. Has our idealism and wishful-thinking blinded us to what the Bible really teaches?? I continue to be interested in the concept of the Eucharistic Liturgy in the context of Ancient Egypt. What Would Gerald Massey Say?

I keep wondering about Ancient Egypt, and how it relates to the Bible. I've read 'Jesus: Last of the Pharaohs' by Ralph Ellis -- and I'm reading 'From Cleopatra to Christ' by Ralph Ellis. I wonder about Isis, Horus, and Set. I wonder about Ra, Osiris, Isis, Sekhmet -- and about how all of these names relate to Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer. I'm sensing that really pinning this down might be nearly impossible -- and that if one managed to figure it out, they probably would wish that they had never figured it out. I feel more and more attacked and miserable -- the more I think about this sort of thing -- and the closer I get to figuring things out. I also sense that the internet has opened a Pandora's Box -- which the galactic elite would like to close. If reincarnation is the way things work -- the questions I just asked might open a huge can of worms. If I'm still sane in 2020, I will be very surprised. I might know the truth by then -- but the price might be higher than I can imagine. What if Jesus is the God of the Old Testament -- and the God of the Roman Catholic Church?? What if Jesus is a mixture of good and bad -- on a reincarnational basis?? What if the Jesus Story is mostly fictional -- with the creator of the Jesus Story being the real key figure? I keep thinking that the real Bible Story is nastier than we can imagine. The history of humanity might be more upsetting than we can imagine.

The idea of the cross is it is two paths, as in two masters.

There is a binary relationship that springs forth from creation. God and the Devil.

Its the fountain...

Without knowing satans whole, how could you reflect Gods whole?


Entertainment was designed to capture the imagination. Imagination is needed to vibrate love.

Both paths are interwoven like a fabric.

Like clothes...

I tend to think that we do not require evil in order to achieve a balance. The presence of evil is indicative of imbalance -- and it is not necessary for the beings of the universe to experience evil -- in all of its ugliness and horror -- in order to properly understand and cherish righteousness, purity, and goodness. I sometimes wonder if humanity is a renegade race and an illegal creation -- which is deeply offensive to its Parent Race and Galactic Powers That Be. If the God of this Parent Race declared war on Humanity -- they might seem to be a Satan from the perspective of Human Beings. The Creator and Leader of the New Human Race might be viewed as being a traitor or Luficer from the perspective of the Parent Race. Human Beings might view this being as being their God or Christ. What if the Crucifixion of Christ represents the punishment of Humanity by the Parent Race?? I have no idea if this is the way things are -- but I am modeling this sort of thing -- so as to consider the Human predicament from as many angles as possible. But really, this makes me a heretic of sorts -- even though I mean no hostility or harm toward anyone. Please watch 'Earth: Final Conflict' for clues regarding conflicting races and agendas. I think of the Taelons as being Greys. I think of the Jaridians as being Reptilians. I guess I think of the Atavus as being Annunaki. According to the series, Humans are related to both the Taelons and Jaridians. I have speculated repeatedly that Humans might be related to the Greys and Reptilians -- even though I don't absolutely know that the Greys and Reptilians exist. I am VERY tentative and hesitant in my research and speculation. I presently seem to be on the side of humanity -- but who knows what my editorial slant has been in previous incarnations?? What if:

Father = Prime Representative of Other-Than-Human Humanoid-Physicality??
Son = Prime Representative of Human Physicality??
Holy Spirit = The Souls Animating Human Physicality and Other-Than-Human Humanoid-Physicality??

I continue to hypothesize that Human Physicality is a Recent Renegade Development in an Ancient Other Than Human Universe -- and that the Universal Immune System is determined to eliminate Human Physicality -- so as to Purify the Universe. I so hope that I'm wrong. What are the implications and ramifications of 'Namaste'??? I think that people should study Religion, Theology, and Sacred-Texts -- but I can understand why many people reject Religion, Theology, and Sacred-Texts. I think we have a HUGE Religion, Theology, and Sacred-Text PROBLEM on our hands -- and we had better solve it with all deliberate speed. Imagine Zo'or and Da'an arguing about theology and religion!! What do you think about this??!! 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCG7QAX8iiM&feature=related 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVkJlsbpZV8 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-Xjj9wC10A I grew up attending the SDA Church -- but it seemed to me that it had been compromised, infiltrated, and subverted -- like I suspect most churches have been -- so I eventually stopped attending church -- even though I continued to be very interested in theology. Is there a good-side to the British-Israel thing (with German and Roman connections)?? I think there is a good-side and a bad-side to just about everyone and everything. Here is some SDA theological controversy for you!! I don't just bash the Jesuits!! The following is taken from pages 393-399 of "Daniel 8:14, the Day of Atonement, and the Investigative Judgment" by Dr. Desmond Ford. Imagine discussing all of these comments and questions with the Queen of Heaven, the Prince of Sirius, and a Sirian King -- in a palace, cathedral, or queen-ship!!

"A. For those who wish to give Ellen G. White greater authority than Scripture.

A very natural reaction to this manuscript would be to "sit" on certain Spirit of Prophecy statements regarding the sanctuary and to affirm in essence, "Here I stand. I can do no other."

I wish to suggest that such an attitude requires more than "standing" to validate it. It will indeed be necessary to do much "other," including the following:

1. Demonstrate that where Ellen G. White and Scripture appear to conflict, veto power must always be given to Ellen G. White rather than vice versa.

2. Reject such clear Scriptures as Hebrews 6:19,20; 9:8, 12, 24-25; 10:19-20, etc., which plainly teach that Christ entered the Most Holy Place at His ascension.

3. Provide clear didactic Scriptures for the doctrine of the investigative judgment. Typological evidence as a basis for doctrine has never been valid -- only typological illustration of doctrine otherwise proved.

4. Explain how it could be that Ellen G. White could sometimes misinterpret her own visions. For example, she understood her first vision to endorse the shut door doctrine -- that probation had closed for the churches and the wicked world. "I saw" often signifies a personal conviction -- not a divine revelation. See its repeated use in the report of the Camden vision.

5.Explain how it could be that Ellen G. White could teach one thing one time, and yet change that view another time -- e.g. her position on the law in Galatians, the covenants, time to close the Sabbath, etc.

6. Explain the several crystal clear Ellen G. White statements which speak of His entering within the veil at His ascension. See, for example, April 19, 1905, Signs of the Times; Desire of Ages, pg. 757.

7. Explain how Great Controversy can be demonstrably wrong in certain exegetical positions and yet correct on the investigative judgment, when this is not demonstrably provable from Scripture, e.g. Ellen White's understanding of the sixth and seventh trumpet. She endorsed the Litch position, which is untenable exegetically and historically. For the revision in 1911 she changed her mind about Litch having given the "exact day" of the prophetic fulfillment.

As regards the seventh trumpet, in later works she placed its fulfillment as in the future, though Great Controversy applies it to the past.

The exposition of Revelation 11 regarding the French Revolution is not accurate exegetically or historically. There never was in France a three-and-a-half year period when the Bible was banned. Hundreds of hours of research by Ellen G. White apologists have failed to find any such thing. The opposite has been found.

Ellen G. White's endorsement of the Miller exposition of Matthew 25: 1-13 is quite indefensible. The passage is not talking of 1844, but of the end of the world. The introductory word "Then" seen in the context of the preceding as well as the following verses, makes this quite plain.

8. Explain how Ellen G. White can use many Scriptural concepts which belong to the last things and apply them both to 1844 and thereabouts, as well as to the end of the world, e.g. the sealing, the shaking, the covering, the fall of Babylon, the cleansing of the sanctuary.

9. Explain Ellen G. White's statements: "The Bible and the Bible only is the source of doctrine," and that "never should the testimonies be carried to the front." "Let all prove every point of doctrine from the Scriptures." It is quite impossible to prove from Daniel, Hebrews, Revelation, or elsewhere that a judgment upon believers began as a result of a change of heavenly ministry in 1844.

10. Provide an apologetic whereby Adventists may go to the world and say: "We have a grand and important truth for you -- a worldwide judgment session is now in process. We cannot show it to you from Scriptures, but we can show it to you from writings of one concerning whom you have never before heard. True, that writer said we should prove all doctrine from Scripture and not from her writings -- but here is an exception -- this basic distinguishing truth we cannot prove from Scripture but it is clear in the writings of Ellen G. White."

When these things have been done in a convincing way, then such exponents can on the basis of the Ellen G. White writings alone, and in opposition to Scripture, say "Here I stand. I can do no other." It may also be helpful at such a time to remember significant Ellen G. White affirmations.

"The Spirit was not given -- nor can it ever be bestowed -- to supersede the Bible, for the Scriptures explicitly state that the word of God is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested...Isaiah declares. To the law and to the testimony; 'if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.'(Isaiah 8:20)" -- Great Controversy pg. 9. "But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible and the Bible only as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms." -- Great Controversy pg. 595.

Inasmuch as Ellen G. White never originated a single doctrine, but only took her stand after others found such doctrines in Scripture (e.g. the Sabbath, health reform, righteousness by faith at Minneapolis, the "daily," etc.), and inasmuch as she refused to permit her writings to decide doctrinal issues, but rather referred inquirers to Scripture (1 Selected Messages 164, 416), we can only say to those who still wish to re-echo Luther's declaration at Worms that his closing prayer is also appropriate for them -- "God help me."

These points are a protest, not against the reality of the gift of prophecy in Ellen G. White, but against undoing the utility of that gift by overdoing our claims for it through affirming the writings as inerrant, or as a basis for doctrine -- even having prior place to Scripture. We would like to remind group A that Luther's prayer was uttered after his affirmation of 'Sola Scriptura'.

B. For those who wish to reject Ellen G. White.

Briefly, I wish to address another group who, to my mind, fall off the straight path into an abyss on the opposite side to that dealt with above. I have friends who, perceiving that Ellen White's comments on the investigative judgment do not parallel Scripture, and learning of her wide use of sources, decide therefore that Ellen G. White must be dropped forthwith, and likewise any belief in her prophetic mission. This seems to them consistent and logical, but so does much other reasoning which ultimately proves unreliable. My friends who pursue such reasoning are distressed that I refuse to join them in their conclusion and therefore I have for them, as well as the group addressed above, some questions.

1. Do they owe nothing of value to Ellen G. White? Would they be Seventh-day Adventists today had there been no Ellen G. White?

2. Would Seventh-day Adventism have survived such crises as that of the first decade of this century when Kellog numbered among his followers a large proportion of our leaders, including Jones, Waggoner, Sutherland, Magan, Paulson, etc., had Ellen G. White not intervened?

3. Suppose there had been no Ellen White at the Minneapolis conference of 1888, would the teachings of Waggoner and Jones on righteousness by faith have ever reached our constituency and paved the way for that proclamation which being the third angel's message in verity is ultimately to lighten the earth with its glory?

4. Going back further still, when in the 1840's many of our forefathers were on the verge of surrendering their faith in the 1844 movement, would this church ever have emerged and consolidated but for the influence of Ellen G. White?

5. Our work is characterized by evangelistic, publishing, colporteur, educational, and health emphases. Which of these would have assumed its present shape and prominence without Ellen G. White?

6. Is it likely that God would have intertwined with our history for its first seventy years the work of one ultimately to be revealed as a fraud? Does God work in harmony with Satan? How likely is it that a person knowing her own hypocrisy could keep up her pretense for seventy years amid crises and gargantuan labors?

7. How much of your rejection of Ellen G. White grows out of a studied understanding of the Biblical teachings on revelation and inspiration?

8. For example, what do you understand the difference to be between these terms -- revelation and inspiration? And what difference is there between them individually and illumination?

9. Has the church universal ever been agreed on the exact nature of inspiration? Do we find that creeds usually define it? Does the modern evangelical scene display unity on the matter?

10. Is the Bible written as we might have expected it to be? Does its content of history, poetry, and outdated legislature comply with our sense of fitness? Does its lack of creedal statements surprise us? Has God so written the Word that doctrinal issues are made crystal clear, and that unbelievers are quickly silenced?

11. Or to say the same thing another way: Is the Bible primarly given to convey information so as to satisfy the mind, or is it a specific moral test? That is to say, has God been content with a weight of evidence for the honest, or has He guaranteed that even the dishonest can be left without excuse?

12. Is there a parallel between the written Word and the Living Word? Did Jesus Christ also evidence some of the surprising features we find in Scripture? That is, did He come as we might have expected? Did He overwhelm all with the evidence that He was what He claimed? Were His statements unequivocal in meaning or sometimes ambivalent? Was He, too, a moral test for His hearers, rather than a great teacher chiefly?

13. Was Jesus both human and divine? And if so, might that also be the obvious nature of Scripture? Did Jesus possess human liabilities and weaknesses such as dependence on creaturely elements such as food, and drink, and rest? Did He ever need to ask questions to secure information? Were His 200 plus inquiries just a front?

14. Did Jesus work as we might expect a celestial visitor to work, or did He also confine Himself in some areas at least to cultural restrictions and limitations? Did He come speaking the language of heaven, or the language of Palestine? Was He dressed as a messenger of light, or as a Galilean peasant?

15. Did Jesus, in some of His expressions, fall short of technical precision, as when He declared the mustard seed to be the least of all seeds?

16. Was Jesus absolutely original in His oral presentations, or is it true, as one scholar has affirmed, that there is not a paragraph from His addresses which does not have its roots in the Old Testament? Is it true, for example, that every phrase of the Lord's Prayer is to be found in previous Scripture?

17. Do Christ's parables contain no difficulties? Are we fully comfortable with His use of hell-fire in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus? Do we feel quite content with His commendation of the rascally steward?

18. How is it that the first three gospels differ so much from the fourth? How is it that they cover very similar ground for much of His ministry, and omit the different materials found in John's gospel covering the same time?

19. Can we explain how it is that the first three gospels not only have broad similarity, but even at times use exactly the same blocks of material, same phraseology, same words -- even the same hiatuses?

20. Can any of us tell where the words of John break off and those of Jesus begin, and vice versa, throughout the fourth gospel? For example, in chapter three, which verse marks the close of Jesus's words to Nicodemus? Did Christ utter the famous John 3:16?

21. Why is it that the style of Christ's speeches in John is so far removed from His style as recorded in the other three gospels? Why is that style either identical or almost so with John's own style?

22. What was said at Christ's baptism: "Thou art my beloved Son" or "This is my beloved Son'? Or were both said?

23. Did the healing of the first leper take place before the Sermon on the Mount (Luke), or after (Matthew)?

24. Were there two Gadarene demoniacs (Matthew 8:28) healed, or one (Mark 5:2 and Luke 8:27)?

25. Was the healing of Bartimaeus before Christ reached Jericho (Luke 18:35), or after (Mark 10:46)?

26. Was Luke given by vision the names of the intertestamental ancestors of Christ, as recorded in Luke 3, or did he derive them from sources such as Luke 1:1-4 might indicate?

27. Where did Luke get his second Cainan from his genealogy of Christ? See Luke 3:36,37 and compare Genesis 10.

28. Was Stephen's speech (Acts 7) inspired? If so, does it agree exactly with the Genesis account of the historical events he referred to?

29. Why was the inspired apostle Paul dependent upon news from Chloe for his information about the situation in Corinth? Why did God give it to him by vision?

30. What evidence is there in the cream of the New Testament -- the epistles -- that visions were given to facilitate their writing?

31. Were visions necessary for the writer of Proverbs as he conveyed some platitudes known and recognized from the foundation of the world -- such platitudes as: the lazy man shall suffer want, a nagging woman is as unpleasant as continual rain, good news makes a person cheerful, bad emotions cause poor health, to have money is to have many "friends"?

32. Similarly, did the Psalmist need visions in order to exhort us to "Come, worship, and bow down," and to comfort us by the reminder that "all the wicked shall God destroy"?

33. Were visions necessary for the chronicling of the well-known historical events in the ministry of Christ? or for most of the annals of Judah and Israel? How many of the historical authors of Old Testament books ever hint that they received visions in order to make possible their writings? Why was a Paul chosen to set forth the theology of the New Testament? Would not a school boy or a fisherman have done as well under inspiration?

34. Is inspiration "docetic" in its operation? Or is it true of the written Word, as of the living Word that it is just as much human as though not at all "divine"?

35. Does inspiration guarantee equal value for all inspired documents? That is, would we miss the genealogies as much as the Sermon on the Mount? Does Scripture like a living body contain a heart, form, and limbs, so to speak, with some members more essential than others?

36. Is there an economy of miracle in the writing of Scripture? Does God ever do supernaturally what can be done naturally? Why did Christ have others fill the water pots with water, and roll away the stone of Lazarus' tomb?

37. Are the prophecies of Scripture completely unambiguous? Are they so plain that a child may understand them? Have all the details of Biblical prophecies been fulfilled? Are some of them conditional?

38. Is our real problem with Scripture what we don't understand or what we do?

39. When Jesus told His disciples that the real truth about Himself couldn't come from flesh and blood but was a divine gift, is this true also of Scripture, and other agencies of God? Do reason and human expectation have priority in determining what is a revelation from God? Can something be supra-rational without being irrational?

40. Does God usually bestow upon separate items just that attention which is proportionate to their importance in the scale of being? Is His work always complete in every way, or just adequate? Does the human organism demonstrate absolute perfection in its formation, or chiefly adequacy? Is the eye a perfect optical instrument? Does the memory function perfectly? Is the human mind infallible in its reasoning process? Has reason itself suffered from the Fall?

41. Can we explain any of the mighty works of God -- creation, providence, miracle, regeneration, sanctification, atonement? If not, should we expect to have a thorough understanding of inspiration and revelation? If the Fall came through a lusting after forbidden knowledge, could it be that man's restoration involves repentance about such lusting, and the substituting of trust?

42. Is "ye shall know them by their fruits" a simple practical rule that even the uneducated and immature can usually apply with success if honestly desiring to know the truth?

43. What did Jesus mean when He said, "If any man is willing to do His will, he shall know of the doctrine"? Was He saying that it is the heart and not the head, which to the highest doth attain?

44. Is it true that two-thirds of life is conduct, and that God might not be so concerned about some theoretical issues as we are?

45. Is it true that Christ held in His hand the whole map of explored truth but only revealed enough for practical purposes?

46. Was Christ Himself a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense? And if so, could this be true also of some genuine forms of revelation besides Him?

47. Are apocalyptic visions such as those of Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelation typical of Scripture or exceptional?

48. How much evidence is there in reading the Gospels or the epistles that the writers felt they had divine control and minute heavenly guidance?

49. How much of Ellen G. White advocates behavior contrary to Scriptural standards? What sort of persons would we be if striving to live up to the standards of Ellen G. White? Is it possible that even the sections of Ellen G. White some of us find so taxing would be clarified if we understood the difference between law and gospel, and between law as a standard and law as a method?

50. If Scripture itself has been terribly abused, even employed for the purpose of murdering innocent millions, should it be surprising if illegitimate use be made of other of God's instruments of revelation?

51. How much danger would there be in advocating that God had used Ellen G. White as a messenger if we followed her own admonition to base all doctrine upon the Bible and the Bible only?

52. How much risk would there be in advocating that God has used Ellen G. White as a special messenger if we simultaneously confessed, as she did, that "God and heaven alone are infallible"?

53. How is it that when Ellen G. White chose a source which best expressed her views of inspiration she chose one which was at odds with the fundamentalist churches of the day -- one which advocated that the writers of Scripture were God's penmen, not His pen, and that in their use of rhetoric and logic God was not represented?

54. Is it possible that many who wish to reject Ellen G. White do so on the same basis that King Ahab rejected the prophet of his day -- "I hate him; for he doth not prophesy good concerning me, but evil" -- 1 Kings 22:8? And is it possible that others reject her because of a legalistic upbringing which misused Ellen G. White in advocating law without gospel?

55. If Christ came to comfort the afflicted but also to afflict the comfortable, and if John, His predecessor, likewise rebuked hypocrisy and evil in the religious, and if both, like all other prophets, called for repentance, could it be that some who reject Ellen G. White's prophetic role do so on the basis that she makes them uncomfortable by her demand for repentance in specific areas?

56. If you were choosing a surgeon, or a real estate agent, or a banker, would you feel most comfortable with one who valued the writings of Ellen G. White, or one who rejected them?

57. Do you know the difference between the Greek and the Hebrew views of knowledge? Which one held that the ideal was to gather as much conceptual truth as possible about everything in order that we might be little gods in knowledge? Which one believed that knowledge was worthless unless practical, and doubly worthless unless related to piety? What is meant by "wisdom" in the book of Proverbs? Does that book mean by "fool" one with little intelligence? And is the "wise" man of Proverbs and elsewhere in Scripture someone with great intellect and powers of perception, or someone who reverences God and acts accordingly? When Ellen G. White says of Christ that He held in His hand the great map of unexplored truth but only disclosed that which had practical value, is she following the Greek or Hebrew view of knowledge? Is there a relationship between these concepts and the apparent carelessness of Scripture about some details of fact, for example, its use of round numbers (e.g. "Seventy sevens" -- Daniel 9:25; Matthew 18:22; "fourteen" -- Matthew 1:17; "480" -- 1 Kings 6:1; "ten" -- Daniel 1:20; 7:24; "forty" -- etc.)?

58. Does the Scriptural use of figures of speech such as hyperbole teach us anything about the nature of inspiration? For example, is it literally true that if all Christ had done had been recorded, the world itself could not contain the books that would need to be written? Had the gospel been preached to every creature under heaven in Paul's day, and if so, why was he still planning to go to such places as Spain, and why does Revelation 14:6 picture a message yet to go to every nation?

59. Are you, as a Westerner, completely happy with all of Paul's arguments? For example, see Galatians 3:16, where he plays on the plural and singular meanings of "seed"? Does his use of Hosea in Romans 9:25f actually reflect what Hosea intended? Was Hosea forecasting the coming in of the Gentiles or the re-acceptance of forsaken Israelites? Do 2 Corinthians 3 and the Old Testament source of the veil incident agree? Do you think that the law about not muzzling the ox was only written for our sakes, and not at all for the oxen? See 1 Corinthians 9:8-10. How is it that Paul under inspiration gives a wrong account of his baptized converts in one place, and then remembers more a little later? 1 Corinthians 1:14-16. And why does the Greek original of Galatians show that some of Paul's sentences were never completed?

60. What is "the bottom line" of inspiration? Is it abstract or practical in intent? Did Jesus on earth ever work unnecessary miracles, or did all His mighty works contribute to the meaning of salvation? Has God been content to be misunderstood in some things when a little more effort on His part could have prevented such a thing? Has God really done everything He could to prevent unbelief or has He only done sufficient for those prepared to be honest? If we are all dying people, with but a remnant of time left, what do we need most from God? Has He provided it? 2 Timothy 3:16; John 17:3; 20:31.

These are some of the questions which could be considered by those who urge me to join them in their rejection of the ministry of Ellen G. White. As for me, I must make Scripture the sole basis of doctrine. But for that very reason, I must also be open to any manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit promised therein, including the gift of prophecy. If I find, as is the case with Ellen G. White, one who leads me to Christ and His Word as supreme in all things, and who exhorts to holiness, I should accept the messenger, but without surrendering the right to exercise the canonical test of Scripture. Believing in the priesthood of all believers as well as 'Sola Scriptura' I will remember that "The doctrine that God has committed to the church, the right to control the conscience, and to define and punish heresy, is one of the most deeply rooted of papal errors" (Great Controversy page 293), and that no ecclesiastical creedal statement shall move me one whit if obviously contrary to the plain testimony of the Word of God. We can do no other."

Someone might find this book on Revelation to be somewhat interesting. It was just written (2012) by one of my teachers (Dr. Erwin R. Gane). http://www.amazon.com/Trumpet-After-Revelations-Trumpets-Sound/dp/B009JSJVMC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356124171&sr=8-1&keywords=erwin+gane I don't know if I'll order it, because I have way too much on my plate already. He didn't see eye to eye with Dr. Desmond Ford (to say the least)! I am not telling anyone to join the SDA church -- but books by some of the more prominent SDA theologians are most interesting. Please do not neglect Biblical and Theological Studies as you grapple with the New Age Mumbo Jumbo!! I tend to think that most of us are going to get blindsided by what's really coming. I have no idea if struggling with this madness will help us when the excrement contacts the refrigeration system. I just re-read 'The Shaking of Adventism' by Geoffery Paxton -- and some of you might find this book to be an interesting read. It is a review (by an Australian Anglican) of the battle over Righteousness by Faith in the SDA church -- up to 1977. I was in the middle of some of this drama -- which is probably one reason why I no longer attend church -- and why I am a Completely Ignorant Fool. Or am I a Pious Zombie?? I'm easily confused as I continue to beat against the rocks of infidelity. Is the SDA church a British-Israel Cult controlled by Jesuits and Alphabet Agents?? Oh Boy!! I need to think about something else. I bought that Dr. Erwin Gane book on Revelation -- and Dr. Desmond Ford's book on Daniel (1978) complete with a forward by F. F. Bruce, and a very interesting introduction. Why do I do this to myself? I know not what I do.

I just finished reading Dr. Gane's book -- and I found it deeply troubling. It contained nothing new -- but it summarized the historical Adventist prophetic viewpoint with surgical precision and nerves of steel. It is a very violent book -- but we seem to live in a violent universe -- ruled by a violent God. Perhaps things have always been that way. Perhaps things will always be that way. Perhaps things have to be that way. I get the feeling that this world, and the human-race, were an experiment -- to attempt to make things better for everyone -- but that things went very wrong -- and might've made things worse -- with a helluva lot of hard-feelings. Gane's book almost seems to be a verdict against humanity (as sinners in the hands of an angry God). I am presently very troubled regarding humanity -- and with the management of humanity. Keep studying the Bible -- from Genesis to Revelation -- but don't expect it to make you happy. Try to get in-tune with whoever wrote the Bible -- and then apply this level of spirituality to a multidisciplinary study of life, the universe, and everything. Now I'm going to finish Dr. Ford's book. We really need to deal with this sort of thing -- whether we like it, or not -- whether we believe in God, or not. God might not believe in us -- and perhaps with some justification. Considering the possibilities has literally ruined my life. BTW -- consider reading 'The Openness of God' by Dr. Richard Rice -- regarding Prophecy, Foreknowledge, and Freedom.

A Reading From the Fourth Chapter of Galatians (KJV):

1Now I say , That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:4But when the fulness of the time was come , God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying , Abba, Father.7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.8Howbeit then , when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage ? 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.12Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.13Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.14And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected ; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.15Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record , that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth ? 17 They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.18But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you.19My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,20I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?22For it is written , that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.24 Which things are an allegory : for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.27For it is written , Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

What if we are dealing with an Ultimate Deity -- and with Two Rival Mother-Son Teams?? Just for illustrative purposes -- think of a Jaridian Ultimate Deity -- with Zo'or--Sandoval v Da'an--Kincaid. What if Liam Kincaid jumped ship -- and joined the Zo'or--Sandoval Team -- under the ultimate direction of the Ultimate Deity?? What if Da'an got demoted -- and was left to twist slowly, slowly in the wind?? I mean NO disrespect with any of my speculations. I'm simply attempting to get at the Explosive-Truth -- and defuse a Prophecy-Bomb. Some of you understand what I'm talking about. What if Josephus was Peter, John the Baptist, John the Revelator, Saul, Paul, and Jesus?? Or, at least, did the research and writing -- and the directing of several actors on a stage??!! What if Josephus was responsible for most of the final-draft Bible writing?? This was just an off the wall thought -- but try extrapolating from the work of people like Ralph Ellis and Jordan Maxwell. I'm simply wondering about a Biblical Mastermind. What if the 'Real Jesus' was exiled somewhere in the Far East?? What if Isis and Cleopatra are more important than we think?? What if the REAL Bible Story is more ugly and complex than we can possibly imagine?? I truly tremble when I think about what reincarnational roles I might've played in Ancient Babylon, Egypt, Greece, and Rome -- just for starters. I keep worrying that I was some sort of a World War Two Bad@ss. Get ready for a VERY Wild Disclosure Ride -- and believe 5% of what you read, see, and hear. I believe that a very real theological story and reality exists -- but I suspect that we know less than 5% of the absolute theological truth. I continue to be VERY frustrated with having to Fly-Blind. I feel as if I am being taken advantage of -- and laughed at -- each and every day. But will I have the last laugh?? I doubt that the Real Truth is any laughing matter. I suspect that it is VERY sad -- and I don't expect to EVER be happy again. Here is something written by Brook (on part 1 of the 'Red Pill' thread), which might be relevant to what I just wrote:

"Now if you were to look at the directions that history has led us you would surly believe that Sekhmet and Isis were deeply involved with these Annunaki creeps. But if you have actually read this thread I spelled it out for you what I have seen. She deeply loved Osiris? She could not stand to be in the same room with him! it was no accident his phallus came up missing! And with it came validations that were astounding. for example Isis lost her life at the hands of Ptah for not cooperating with this evil agenda to enslave and mutate and manipulate. All evidence of what was really the truth went down with Atlantis. And after that, all you have been presented was what THEY want for you to see. So be it."

orthodoxymoron comments: "I've been neglecting this thread - but now I'm going to dig into it with enthusiasm. I know that Lucifer is supposed to be deceased - but I will continue to speculate about the past, present, and future of Lucifer. I'm finding it helpful to think of a Male Nine-Foot Tall Draconian Reptilian God/Satan Pimp of This World - a Female (or hermaphroditic) Human/Reptile Hybrid Mediatrix Lucifer/Lilith/Hathor/Isis/Mary/Anna ("V") Whore of Babylon - and a Sensitive Male Fully Human Jesus (who is very good, yet lacks the nasty, cunning firepower of the other two - and who most people won't give the time of day to). Gabriel, Lucifer, Michael? Mason, Nazi, Magician? The three primary faction leaders in this solar system? Sirius A, Sirius B, Andromeda? Thank-you BROOK for forcing me to deal with the details of Egyptology. Thank-you Lionhawk for providing your 'from the inside' insights into the hidden realms. I'm not a scholar or an experiencer. I'm a neurotic speculator. It takes all kinds - but sometimes I wonder why?"

Brook responds: "Isis was not the whore of Babylon by a long shot ODM......you are falling into the lies of the century to even consider such. This is the leanings of the nature of use of the energy that is the Story of her.

Hathor was an all together different faction involved with Egypt......the Hathors invited themselves to join a party... in alignment with the reptilian signature.

Lucifer had and all together different signature then the reptilians.......of the Angelic realm. A separate yet just as evil agenda...and not necessarily set out that way..it just ended that way.
Remember ODM....Isis was killed at the hands of a slimy reptilian! Ptah.....who threw her in a snake pit...while her trusting friend who was with her to watch over her.....Aritmus..... stood there in horror, and could not save her. While Ptah shouted in anger......because she had not cooperated...shouting at her, as she lay dying ....saying "she could have had the world! "

She chose death over his evil, because this is not what source intended.....not the God she knew.

Tacodog comments:

Brook: You definitely have my ears (eyes).
Just want to make sure I get this straight.
Ra (Sun)/Sekhemt(feline) united and created Isis (feline/Sun), watcher for Ra. Isis took on Nephthys as her sister. Nephthys is hybrid? Feline bloodline?
Ptah/Thoth (brothers) are Annunaki
Osiris/Set (Annunaki/feline) (sons of Thoth or Ptah?)
Osiris/Isis marry and had Horas. Set eliminates Osiris
Ptah eliminates Isis
Jesus came into being through Mary’s bloodline (Which is Sirian? Same as Ra?) to do what Horus failed at doing. Was Horus eliminated and by whom?
Hathor – another bloodline? Allied with reptilians
Lucifer – Angelic realm – turned evil
The “Royal Bloodline” is Annunaki and Feline? “The Royal Bloodline are the Royals we speak of today? The ordinary human bloodline – all of the above possibly? Did RA seed earth with “hybrids” and human’s DNA is a variety of bloodlines mentioned above? Where is RA while Thoth is running havoc? Is Ra the “God” in this case? Is he the good guy? Does he not know what is going on down here? Hathor/Lucifer also entities causing havoc, and their “bosses” are unable to control them as well? Doesn’t Universe care about all this running amok?

Once again: Great thread!

If I can throw another log on this fire...............

I am going to pull an ODM approach here, which is a good thing, I hope. Let's just say that the Creator has a real warm fuzzy spot for this Planet. A real jewel in his/her eyes. Is it so hard to fathom the reasons why? If you look upon this Planet you will see a reflection of the Universe by the extremes she provides. From beautiful to ugly, and every other extreme polarities imaginable. It is that bandwidth of polarity that makes a perfect environment for experiencing. Throw free agency in as a gift and look at all the experience that can be created. Throw a few Angels, a few Aliens, demi Gods, some down right evil bastards, and some of Earth's daughters and sons created with alien bloodlines, and you have a block buster!

So everything is going just fine. Earth is on a time line that is in alignment with her own growth. Here come some players that just make a bad choice forcing other players to unplug because now Earth has been side stepped to another time line. Now here is my ODM question of the day.... Do you really think that this ascension business of the Planet is about ascension or do you think it might be about side stepping back to the original time line that the Creator had intended in the first place?

My point being is that this altercation of the time line happened during the Egyptian age. How do we go about fixing that?

Brook responds:

Tacodog....you're close..but before I attempt to answer all of theses questions, I must wake up.
For the moment think of this.....the density to be able to travel into the sun must be very light....
The density of a reptilian is very heavy....this is why they prefer the the inner earth in parts...the hydrogen components of their being is very dense. To stay here on the surface of earth for any given time, you need the genetic coding of this planet. To do so, you need a source "frequency" to regulate and adjust. A tool to help one survive and adjust those frequencies.....a tool such as the discs....the properties to maintain a frequency to sustain your own frequency if you are from off planet.......remember the pyramids contain a "frequency" chamber......
I'll be back to help you with the players and their roles."

"Okay Tacodog....to the best of my knowledge....

Ra (Sun)/Sekhemt(feline) united and created Isis (feline/Sun), watcher for Ra. Isis took on Nephthys as her sister. Nephthys is hybrid? Feline bloodline?

Sekhmet is the mother of Isis....Father unknown at this time...however it would not surprise me if it was Ra.

Ra and Skehmet are the parents of Horus.... Isis is surrogate for Horus.

Nephthys was the mistress of the house of Osiris and Isis....became a full fledged partner of Osiris. Se was most likely a feline hybred...but not the sister of Isis.

Ptah/Thoth (brothers) are Annunaki

Ptah and Thoth were not brothers.....they were Annunaki, Ptah being in charge of Operations, and Thoth, a close confident and scribe....discovered the properties of the discs...and helped Ptah to produce the "duplicate discs"...and was creator of the Emerald Tablets. Thoth moved up in rank, and was eventually ousted from Egypt, as "ambitious", and carried on his work with the discs as a "God" in the South American region.

Osiris/Set (Annunaki/feline) (sons of Thoth or Ptah)?

Osiris and Set are both Annunaki/ Feline...earth based.....and of "royal bloodline...however, at this time I'm not sure who's bloodline it is. I know it is not Sekhmet.

Osiris/Isis marry and had Horus. Set eliminates Osiris. Ptah eliminates Isis.

Osiris and Isis are married for royal lineage..however they do not have a child together. The child of Isis was the surrogate son of Ra, and Sekhmet.....done in the tomb of Osiris to convince Ptah that the work done was to create a child of the Annunaki /feline royal lineage....when in fact it was that of Feline/Sun and earth based lineage. No Annunaki...no reptilian ...and when it was found that there was not reptilian bloodline....Set again went forward to take authority over the "throne"...which was taken from Isis in the first place. And handed over to Osiris, and Ptah..used by Thoth...remember there is a connection to the Throne and the discs...it's more than just a "chair"...it operated in conjunction with the discs...and it belonged to Isis....this is why they needed her in the first place....she had the genetic coding to the chair and the discs.

Jesus came into being through Mary’s bloodline (Which is Sirian? Sameas Ra?) to do what Horus failed at doing. Was Horus eliminated and by whom?

Jesus is not Sirian same as Ra.....They are just another spiritual faction that felt the calling to wake those who would listen, be able to discern the truth of who they are...remember Jesus said..."He who knows everything, but fails to know himself, misses the knowledge of everything"...they brought him here to bring some truth...but even his truth got turned into a ritual of "religion"....just like the words of Thoth...in a different fashion...but followed...and now is even popping into the "new age" movement with his words of "wisdom"....words of wisdom.....used to manipulate and put you in essence back to sleep if you let it.

Horus was intended to carry on the feline lineage...and to an extent he did..however he got trapped, and Set could not foot the bill..so Thoth....after much torture, and pain....turned Horus into a slave to do their bidding. But he did not last long...and was quite fragmented.....after the fight from Set to gain control of the throne....Horus was just a "figure head'..the real leader was Ptah....with Thoth at the reins...but it was soon after that that Thoth got ousted....he was too power hungry...and it did not suite Ptah.

Hathor – another bloodline? Allied with reptilians

Lucifer – Angelic realm – turned evil Correct on Hathor and Lucifer The “Royal Bloodline” is Annunaki and Feline? “The Royal Bloodline are the Royals we speak of today?

This is a very important answer....The "Royal bloodline" was that of the "Throne"...that of Isis....that of Sekhmet. It was stolen...and the symbolism of the "Throne" is used today with every so called "royal bloodline" since.....the only thing that made it "royal" in the first place was the "throne"...and it contained great power...and in the wrong hands...it created, an ever turning series of false royal lineage.....claiming that power of a "throne" that is in control of the frequencies of the discs.....that hide the truth. Today the throne is a symbol...but ask your self of what.....then look at these "royal thrones...and check out the composite make up of the jewels that surround it...and ask your self of the "crystalline" properties and power of these jewels and what they might actually be used for. Sounds crazy, I know...but together with the piezoelectric properties of the discs, and the chair to control it....you have an unlimited power source. And this "throne" and Isis were both based in Atlantis prior to the coming of the Annunaki. Most thrones you see used in a public arena are simply symbols..the real ones have been replaced by technology now.

The ordinary human bloodline – all of the above possibly? Did RA seed earth with “hybrids” and human’s DNA is a variety of bloodlines mentioned above?

Where is RA while Thoth is running havoc? Is Ra the “God” in this case? Is he the good guy? Does he not know what is going on down here? Hathor/Lucifer also entities causing havoc, andtheir “bosses” are unable to control them as well? Doesn’t Universe care about all this running amok?

Ra was not around when these guys were tampering with the goods.....and in the process destroyed Atlantis. Ra came to Egypt after the fact...and that is when things got hot for Ptah...and Ra decided to try to gain back some control...but remember....by this time there were many lives at stake here on earth...Ra was not a "god"...he was simply in charge of a mission...and tried to correct things...the most important thing Ra and Sekhmet did, was to Remove the real discs, because Isis pleaded with them to stop the madness. They were creating some very painful expermints besides what you have heard of here so far....what I would term..."abominations."

Ra was simply in charge of a mission to assist life here on earth through frequencies. Give the planet what it needed to create it's own species...us...the human bloodline..fit for the frequencies here...and basically create a new civilization. the seeding of "lightbody" technology has been used since anciet times...and the ones in charge of that were the felines..but that was not the only group here. We were then, and still are a very diverse culture of beings here. It would depend where you came from to determine that. And remember most of the records of that have been erased with the sinking of Atlantis. For example...Lumarians are Pleadian hybrids. Isis traveled extensively all over using this technology in conjunction with the core disc in the earth to bring the lightbody to the frequency of the earth. After the initial use..all that was needes was to produce an offspring...and away you go. Now...the key here is the fragmenting and tampering of Thoth and Ptah to infiltrate, and create a slave race of humans that don't remember who they are. Instead of remembering one life stream. An altering of the DNA with frequency. The so called "matrix" that David Icke speaks of.....set up with a frequency pattern.

The good news is.....the earths frequencies are changing..and so are ours. this is why they have been scrambling to figure a way to control the frequencies. They are in great fear of a grid collapse....now tell me....how bad would that actually be? Worst case scenearo....repair it in a years time.....the fear is...they will be uncovered. The truth will come out...and people will start truly remembering....which will cause a chaos at first..then a rebellion....against who? The very ones in control of those frequencies. Even the armies of troops will start to realize who thay have been working for.....it will not be pretty for sure. But the truth sometimes never is."

Archangel Michael = Isis = Cleopatra = Good Anna??!! Teachings of Isis = Teachings of Jesus??!! Did someone incarnate 2000 Years ago to bring the Creator's Message to the People? Were they exiled to the far east? Was Jesus Cesarian a usurper who corrupted this message? Did Constantine and the Council of Nicea further dilute and corrupt this message? Were nearly 40 books reduced to 5 books? Was this corrupted version of Christianity forced upon humanity for 1700 years? Are the True Teachings secretly held in the Vatican Archives? Do we need men and buildings to reach the Creator? Did the True Teachings tell people to seek enlightenment within themselves? Please watch the 1963 movie 'Cleopatra' over and over while studying this thread. Remember -- I am representing this thread as being a study-guide -- and NOT as being 'The Answer'. You will need to spend a helluva lot of time and energy with this madness to really 'get it'. I still don't really 'get it' -- even though this is 'my' thread. As I previously mentioned -- one dark night, someone looked me in the eye, and said "I am Ra". They later called me 'Michael', and asked me if I thought I might be the one hanging on the cross?? I didn't think so -- and I don't think so. What if Ra and Sekhmet were the parents of Isis and Jesus?? Think of this question in terms of a reincarnational soul basis. What if the REAL 'Jesus Story' is centered in Ancient Egypt?? Nuff Said.

magamud wrote:The idea of the cross is it is two paths, as in two masters.

There is a binary relationship that springs forth from creation. God and the Devil.

Its the fountain...

Without knowing satans whole, how could you reflect Gods whole?


Entertainment was designed to capture the imagination. Imagination is needed to vibrate love.

Both paths are interwoven like a fabric. this is your pov

Like clothes...

which church did tell you that? Can you explain what is love? Can you explain what is 'fabric'? Can you explain a binary thing?

this way of thinking and believing would never completely satisfy the Self

magamud wrote:

Do you really believe those debunking videos Magamud? Actually, the debunking videos make me want to watch the videos of the subject because basically, we are being advised "don't waste your time believing" and it's those types of videos I always watch because others don't want us to give any credence to..

Now I will admit, I have not been a big Icke Fan, however, this does not mean (amen!) I am a disbeliever! Nothing is absolute except for existence and Icke breathes and lives.. That is all!

ALL

Awareness Loves Life!