Is Greed Good? The Psychology, Ethics, and Theology of Buying and Selling.

I'm not sure what to do with this thread -- even though I think it is a very important topic. Unfortunately, the topics which I consider to be of utmost importance, generally generate very little interest. Have I been black-balled, at some level? I sometimes wonder.

Competition seems to be an integral part of Freedom -- but are Competition and Freedom inherently Greedy and Destructive in nature? Is there such a thing as 'Constructive Competition'? Does 'Competition Improve the Breed'? Was Lucifer wrong to 'Compete with God'? The Decalogue states 'Thou Shalt Not Covet'. Does competition involve secrecy, deception, and taking advantage of the other party? Can one be competitive while genuinely 'loving neighbor as self' and 'treating others as we wish to be treated'? Does being clever and shrewd in business constitute 'stealing'? Does buying and selling involve a certain element of 'gambling'? Is it OK to become filthy-rich by screwing the competition? Is there competition and greed in 'Heaven'? Is competition a sin? What Would John D. Rockefeller Say? Is the 'Love of Money the Root of All Evil'? What Would Jesus Say? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hB2wtz9nDQ&feature=related

orthodoxymoron wrote: What Would Jesus Say?

“What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul.”

Competition makes us think we are in a race and that there is a prize out there to win but the true treasures are those that spring from the Heart. These are nourishment to the soul and a blessing for all.
I would rather have us work in synergy honoring each other than in the arrogance of opposing camps.

The Baseball Game

At a fund-raising dinner for a school that serves learning disabled children, the father of one of the students delivered a speech that would never be forgotten by all who attended. After extolling the school and its dedicated staff, he offered a question.

"When not interfered with by outside influences, everything nature does is done with perfection. Yet my son, Shay, cannot learn things as other children do. He cannot understand things as other children do. Where is the natural order of things in my son?"

The audience was stilled by the query.

The father continued. "I believe, that when a child like Shay comes into the world, an opportunity to realize true human nature presents itself, and it comes, in the way other people treat that child."

Then he told the following story:

Shay and his father had walked past a park where some boys Shay knew were playing baseball.

Shay asked, "Do you think they'll let me play?"

Shay's father knew that most of the boys would not want someone like Shay on their team, but the father also understood that if his son were allowed to play, it would give him a much-needed sense of belonging.

Shay's father approached one of the boys on the field and asked if Shay could play. The boy looked around for guidance and, getting none, he took matters into his own hands and said, "We're losing by six runs, and the game is in the eighth inning. I guess he can be on our team, and we'll try to put him in to bat in the ninth inning."

In the bottom of the eighth inning, Shay's team scored a few runs but was still behind by three. In the top of the ninth inning, Shay put on a glove and played in the outfield.

Even though no hits came his way, he was obviously ecstatic just to be in the game and on the field, grinning from ear to ear as his father waved to him from the stands.

In the bottom of the ninth inning, Shay's team scored again. Now, with two outs and the bases loaded, the potential winning run was on base, and Shay was scheduled to be next at bat.

At this juncture, let Shay bat and give away their chance to win the game?

Surprisingly, Shay was given the bat. Everyone knew that a hit was all but impossible. Shay didn't even know how to hold the bat properly, much less connect with the ball.

However, as Shay stepped up to the plate, the pitcher moved in a few steps to lob the ball in softly so Shay could at least be able to make contact.

The first pitch came, and Shay swung clumsily and missed. The pitcher again took a few steps forward to toss the ball softly toward Shay. As the pitch came in, Shay swung at the ball and hit a slow ground ball right back to the pitcher.

The pitcher picked up the soft grounder and could have easily thrown the ball to the first baseman. Shay would have been out and that would have been the end of the game.

Instead, the pitcher took the ball and turned and threw the ball on a high arc to right field, far beyond the reach of the first baseman.

Everyone started yelling, "Shay, run to first! Run to first!"

Never in his life had Shay ever made it to first base. He scampered down the baseline, wide-eyed and startled.

Everyone yelled, "Run to second, run to second!"

By the time Shay rounded first base, the right fielder had the ball. He could have thrown the ball to the second-baseman for the tag, but he understood the pitcher's intentions and intentionally threw the ball high and far over the third-baseman's head.

Shay ran toward second base as the runners ahead of him deliriously circled the bases toward home. Shay reached second base. The opposing shortstop ran to him, turned him in the direction of third base, and shouted, "Run to third!"

As Shay rounded third, the boys from both teams were screaming, "Shay, run home!" Shay ran to home, stepped on the plate, and was cheered as the hero who hit the "grand slam" and won the game for his team.

"That day," said the father softly with tears now rolling down his face, "the boys from both teams helped bring a piece of true love and humanity into this world."

Love from me
mudra

That story made me cry, Mudra. I think that competition and game-playing are an important part of giving life meaning and interest -- but we need to know when to do what the boys did in your story. There is a time and a place for just about everything. Jesus was quite competitive with the religious-leaders -- and on an archangelic-level, I suspect that Jesus might've been quite the warrior. If the bad-guys are more competitive than the good-guys -- guess what kind of a world we're going to have??!!

Hello, the story about Shay brought tears to my eyes,such generous children, Mudra do you know the approximate age of this group ?

In response to the questions posed by Oxy, my opinion is that competition often leads to greed, unless the person has a strong sense of social justice they become caught up in what can they benefit from the situation.
I listen to my childrens stories of the school playground and even at the ages of 11 and 12 a lot of kids are out for personal glory in the soccer/footy/basketball match and heaven help the less sporty ones who are chosen last for teams and are barely passed the ball.

Sadly society promotes this survival of the fittest behaviour/competition.Schools are guilty of propagating this within society for their excessive need to be seen as turning out high achievers be they sport stars or academic results.

Love thy neighbour has little lasting meaning in society, holding grudges shows "strength" and forgiveness is lost on most or seen as a trait belonging to those who have little self esteem.

I often dont like living in this world and have as little to do with most people as possible on a social level.I am not interested in conversation which revolves around "keeping up with the Joneses". Again sadly, children are affected by such idle chatter then covetting their neighbours latest aquisitions, the ongoing challenge today is teaching children to be grateful in the face of consumerism and greed.

I feel digusted by the unequal distribution of wealth in our world, owing to competition and greed.

the problem is that 'bad' guys say that greed is bad

I am in Las vegas (business) now observing zombies sitting in the huge rooms without windows. Those rooms have no clocks. Zombies do not know is it morning or evening or next morning. Time is stopped for them. They are pale and for hours are sitting, drinking and guessing machines. It is a prison for zombies. Time to time for spec selected ones come free drinks. They are not thinking, they think that they do... Time is stopped and sun is not allowed in.

This is true mind control btw, no?.

ask them your question Oxy

cheers
devakas

I've briefly interacted and observed these Zombies. I feel these poor people have gotten lost in stagnant "cultural whirlpools", where thier thought patterns are stuck in a loop. "Beware of the loop." I once said. This sounds like Japan's "Hungry Ghosts", always fed, never satisfied.

The Slot Machine Zombie epitomized the base level of the entire thought process of gambling.

We gamble all the time. Less civilized ways of existing try to interact spiritually with their environment to grant favor to the gods for crops and animals and other essentials.

Modern business persons are focused in their conscious intent in trying to control and manipulate and are lost in the fascinations of the the material manipulations. (aka "rat race")

The model of civilization that has led to our Western Way Of Life has reached it's zenith, with collapse and breakdowns now arriving at every facet of daily life.

Now one can think that with the divide of haves and nots increasing everyday, that it's good to have, and bad to not.

Well....that is an illusion. Beware of The Grass Is Greener. The karmic pitfalls that plague the filthy rich (arriving from heartless actions)...as a trade for the occasional moments of sublime luxury or experinces of the flesh...sounds like a bargain I'll pass on ....thanks!

Power and materialism only begat that and nothing else. The spirit is pushed out, or at least any light ones...

So finding a path with heart is key to stepping away from the hungry loops, and keep flowing towards better and brighter opportunities.

Interesting question Oxy.

For me the true definition of greed is not a good thing. To desire material things and keeping up with the Jones' is revolving door with not a good ending.

However I contend that some greed and also some ego is a good thing.

Does it not take some greed to want to earn enough money so that you and your family can have nice things in life. Put food on the table, go places, afford a vehicle?

Is it not a bit of greed that gets one up in the morning? The desire to earn a little cash so can enjoy our play time?

Is it not greed that has given us some of the comforts of today's living? Without some businessperson's greed of wanting to succeed would many products we use today or consume today, have been manufactured?


In saying this, I agree too much greed is a bad thing.

The greed of the big banks, big pharma, big corporations, big countries, big dictators, big tycoons, is another story. We know what they are doing.


I also shake my head at the zombies in the casinos or even on line gambling that are totally consumed with hitting the jackpot. Ironic that hitting the jackpot will likely only make them want more.


Btw I voted both yes and no

I believe that greed is excessive, selfish desire and that it is the base reason for everything that's wrong in our world today. That and cruelty.

Thank-you for all of your excellent responses. Regarding Las Vegas -- I would like to see Las Vegas and Area 51 reformed -- but not removed. I think it might be cool to live around Las Vegas and work at Area 51 -- but only if the creepy, corrupt, and disgusting aspects were removed. What if the Vegas Games were based upon skill, rather than chance? What if there were windows and skylights in the casinos? What if there were no teens clicking call-girl (prostitute) cards? What if Vegas were turned into a high-class affordable-luxury for families??? What if there were no malevolent entities and beings connected with Area 51? What if there were public tours of Area 51 (with none of the 'good-stuff' hidden)? I am conflicted regarding competition, cooperation, capitalism, communism, socialism, etc. I think that everything has its place -- and that our mistake is that we let things get out of control. I once attended several lectures by a Czech professor, who believed in 'Socialistic-Democracy'. I'd simply like to get rid of war, destitute-poverty, and the non-compassionate use of accumulated-wealth.

I was fasting yesterday to save cows. as it is said in Vedas to save thousands of cows to fast on 11th moon day.
In spiritual world it is explained.
In las vegas I saw many old people who came to satisfy their last desires with hope to get rich and die.
I saw old people who do not know what their helpers are putting in their mounth, I do not think they have taste anymore.
Many in invalid chairs. But they hold a card to stick in the game machine. It is realy sad. I think hoomans after inslaved work all life come to empty city to loose their life savings and it is so sad their retirement. Kali is here to help to do it.
The desires are strong to fight, so many occumulated through the life.... :(

What you are suggesting i know it will not work. This is also sad. We always forget to fight Kali. I already said on another thread what would work.
Contradicting people are not the solution.

'you should be insane to think that world today is sane'

There will be a book soon - comunism, kapitalism and kaliism. This will be guide to hoomans..


I remember a post here where it was suggested to 'lets abondon all religions and remember what Krist said, look for solution inside you' do you see contradiction? We are blind to unbelievable. We are talking and then we contradicting. this is sad.
have to go to somewhere where wine fairies are flying to get high from the high rack a bottle of wine...

the book should be soon finished.
cheers

Devakas, it is interesting that you mention 'fighting Kali'. I created a 'Kali' thread -- and made many speculations. I feel as if I have spoken with Kali -- or at least a representative of Kali. I don't wish to be more specific. I also spoke with someone who claimed to have built Las Vegas with 'Bugsy'. The crazy thing is -- I believed them. Again, I don't wish to be more specific. Las Vegas is sometimes called 'Babylon'. Who might the 'Whore of Babylon' be? Is there more than one -- or more than one aspect of this derogatory term?? As you know, I have my theories. I continue to think that the problem is not with that which exists -- but rather with the misuse and abuse of that which exists. The priorities and price-tags seem to be all wrong. I endorse a careful study of the Teachings of Jesus -- in the context of the rest of the Bible -- in the context of the World's Religions. We need to be very careful to not throw out the baby with the bathwater. I'm looking forward to reading that book!

orthodoxymoron wrote:Devakas, it is interesting that you mention 'fighting Kali'. I created a 'Kali' thread -- and made many speculations. .............
........... I'm looking forward to reading that book!

Namaste

YOU OXY will write this book!!


Namaste

study yugas for help and you will get help as it will be correct service (hare)in many many ways. and for humanity. You will get help!

devakas

just dont think about yourself or others, think about humanity!!

devakas wrote:

orthodoxymoron wrote:Devakas, it is interesting that you mention 'fighting Kali'. I created a 'Kali' thread -- and made many speculations. .............
........... I'm looking forward to reading that book!

Namaste

YOU OXY will write this book!!


Namaste

study yugas for help and you will get help as it will be correct service (hare)in many many ways. and for humanity. You will get help!

devakas

just dont think about yourself or others, think about humanity!!

Thank-you devakas. I get nervous when I think about writing books. That places things on an entirely different level. I really just wanted to discuss various topics with the right humans (and other than humans) on the internet. This hasn't happened to any significant degree. The right kind of conversation has not occurred. This whole thing seems increasingly insane. I am very disillusioned and discouraged at this point.

One more thing. What One Does With Their Money Should Probably Be More Ethically-Precise Than the Process of Making Money. This might be somewhat hypocritical -- but think this through with excruciating detail and insight. If the bad guys and gals keep winning in the marketplace -- the good guys and gals will not have the resources to create a better world. Think about it. Robin Hood probably had the right idea (stealing from the rich, and giving to the poor). What did you think about Reagan Hood (stealing from the poor, and giving to the rich)??!! Consider the Karmic-Debt. Crime Does Not Pay on Judgment-Day.

Sincerely the most gratifying moments in my life are those that are not motivated by any earnings or reward in exchange.As everyone I believe I am happy when I am retributed for my work but I feel truly blessed when what I am able to do for another springs from heart and is free.There is nothing that is more gratifying to me as it is in these moments that soul is truly manifesting.That little extra something that is like a fountain of gold emerging from the core of our essence is I believe what makes life worth living.
Nature herself gives abundantly recycling any surplus or decayed material she created to give even more.
We have become so disconnected from her that instead of working along with her and enhance that natural abundance we have begun to work against her.
We are manufacturing ,buying and consuming nowadays literally thousands of goods that are completely useless.In doing so not only do we take more from Mother than we really need but we at the same time create things that can't even be recycled or in case of the nuclear are highly dangerous and will take thousand of years to subside.
I think the way the competitive market is going today is to gradually replace our planet and all that is endowed by life force upon it by synthetic unfeeling creations birthed from our labs.
There is an emerging movement that keeps the Spirit of Life alive and is saying NO to this.There are people around who live from soul and heart. There are people around who are keepers of the land.There are artists around who remember beauty and create from Love. There is nature around perfect and balanced, an everlasting place of inspiration where music, painting and poetry is free .And there are children whose innocence is mirroring our essence.
If it wasn't for all the good that I see growing on that mud I would'nt want to remain here another minute.
And I know too that I would'nt have entered this dream if I felt this was an hopeless place.
Heart and spirit form everything it takes to make heart bigger and spirit grow.

Love from me
mudra

Personally Mudra you are just plain wrong.

Its great to be greedy. That way you ensure you always get a bigger slice of the pie.
If you snooze you lose.. ipso facto

By taking more, others have less but watch out..there is always a bigger fish.
Its important to have more than you need because that way those who really need it have less chance of getting it ensuring your supply route.

When you look at the fruits of your greed and look in the mirror and say.. 'How cool am I' it doest really matter what some degenerate thinks, who should be sterilised anyway because they will only bring more losers into the world who will cost me more tax paying for their benefits from my hard earned cash.

By consuming as many of our natural resources as is possible is fun because who gives a XXXX about the younger generations. There's a Ooopsey infinite supply of this XXXX so XXXX em all and the boat they sailed on.

Is greed good? You bet. A winner every time

mudra wrote:Sincerely the most gratifying moments in my life are those that are not motivated by any earnings or reward in exchange.As everyone I believe I am happy when I am retributed for my work but I feel truly blessed when what I am able to do for another springs from heart and is free.There is nothing that is more gratifying to me as it is in these moments that soul is truly manifesting.That little extra something that is like a fountain of gold emerging from the core of our essence is I believe what makes life worth living.
Nature herself gives abundantly recycling any surplus or decayed material she created to give even more.
We have become so disconnected from her that instead of working along with her and enhance that natural abundance we have begun to work against her.
We are manufacturing ,buying and consuming nowadays literally thousands of goods that are completely useless.In doing so not only do we take more from Mother than we really need but we at the same time create things that can't even be recycled or in case of the nuclear are highly dangerous and will take thousand of years to subside.
I think the way the competitive market is going today is to gradually replace our planet and all that is endowed by life force upon it by synthetic unfeeling creations birthed from our labs.
There is an emerging movement that keeps the Spirit of Life alive and is saying NO to this.There are people around who live from soul and heart. There are people around who are keepers of the land.There are artists around who remember beauty and create from Love. There is nature around perfect and balanced, an everlasting place of inspiration where music, painting and poetry is free .And there are children whose innocence is mirroring our essence.
If it wasn't for all the good that I see growing on that mud I would'nt want to remain here another minute.
And I know too that I would'nt have entered this dream if I felt this was an hopeless place.
Heart and spirit form everything it takes to make heart bigger and spirit grow.

Love from me
mudra

Maybe you are right after all.

Thank-you for your posts. I admire those who are capable of winning in the marketplace -- while maintaining the highest ethical standards -- who live rather modestly -- and who give liberally to worthy charities. I'm not a big fan of class warfare -- but I would prefer that there be a stratified middle-class -- with very few destitute-poor or obscenely-wealthy. I would like to refine the existing system -- without destroying it, and starting over. I'm for refining and reforming just about everything. I'm for 'Responsible-Enterprise' rather than 'Laissez-Faire Capitalism'.

orthodoxymoron wrote:Thank-you for your posts. I admire those who are capable of winning in the marketplace -- while maintaining the highest ethical standards -- who live rather modestly -- and who give liberally to worthy charities. I'm not a big fan of class warfare -- but I would prefer that there be a stratified middle-class -- with very few destitute-poor or obscenely-wealthy. I would like to refine the existing system -- without destroying it, and starting over. I'm for refining and reforming just about everything. I'm for 'Responsible-Enterprise' rather than 'Laissez-Faire Capitalism'.

Is that another way of saying greed is good but only in modified circumstances?

For example. I could be greedy gain all sorts then give all my money away so I am left with nothing.

Would greed be good then?

Im not sure greed would be the right word in that context though.

I simply don't want nice guys and gals to finish last. I wish to reward responsibility and punish irresponsibility.

Karmic Law (I never studied law) states that "what comes around goes around". If you actually force your will over that of others, then a balance will be maintained eventually.

I feel that the cycles are becoming shorter and increasing in frequency. I could be wrong, but it seems that where mis-deeds once took lifetimes to iron out, now the corrections start occurring almost immediately.

Fortunately, as a young man, whenever I would perform a selfish act, I would immediately injure myself in the process. This would tell me that I was making a mistake, and perhaps help to alleviate the suffering I was making for others.

If only the feedback system was that direct for Corporate Policy "Would you like to put that on your Sears Card today? We've just raised the interest rates!"



That is the solace I receive when I talk myself out of interfering; such as when I see a bad policy in action, or a person dominating another...

"They'll receive the oats they are sowing..."

I just hope it's sooner, rather than later, as we may ALL receive their bitter oats...

However, in regard to the Amazing Things that have happened to me during stint here in this planet, this tells me that my assisting others is paying off in dividends. If I had true faith in this process, I would just take off and start walking the surface of the Earth, like Kane in Kung Fu. In doing this I would know that my needs would be taken care of; I'm just not ready to let go.

In doing such, I still must maintain a modicum of selfishness, otherwise I am in no position to help anyone...

where is bhakti yoga, there is no greed. It becomes transparent.

Thank-you devakas. I think there is a place for Constructive Competition -- but no place for Destructive Greed -- which is really Irresponsible Competition. These distinctions are subtle -- yet extremely important.

orthodoxymoron wrote:I simply don't want nice guys and gals to finish last. I wish to reward responsibility and punish irresponsibility.

Oxy for president