For ortho, my response to your latest post of today December 1 2014 in the United States thread

Hey ortho, if I may call you by that name for ease of writing, with respect?
I've read your long post of today between the lines, as a prayer, a tired plea for a once upon a time,
so very long longed for salvation. I want you to know that you represent probably a huge part of the
human family, today, either choosing the path of power, or the path of submission, in order to achieve
peace of mind, feeling secure. The restriction of physicality and the veil of forgetting, when we are born
in a body, is painful to accept, at least I felt this when very young. My love for a free will was puzzled.

I remembered my ability to just magically create things instantly, without time involved.
How furious I've been for not being able to practice that magic. Why....? Why? WHY?
I want you to know that what you've done isn't useless or without value, as I see it.
I wish for you to be on the right mountain top, on the look out for that dawning of clarity,
bringing to completion the purpose of your soul.

On my own path, aiming for that completion too, I have a hunch that I will find the insight
that the only reason for obstacles on that path, are the complications and labyrinths of thoughts
and mental excersizes of my mind that cannot see the lenses through which I look and interpretate
the world I see around me, meaning the chakras with their range of vibrational levels, going from red to violet.

They're the openings through which our own and the universal energy is flowing, coming from past, present
and future existences. Each chakra has it's own truth, it's own definition, reflected as if from different facets of a crystal.
Compared to the level of vibration, we make up our reality, as I see it. When there's no space - there's no time.
Infinity can't be measured, for it's without a beginning and an ending. If God, Great Spirit, or Universal love is infinite,
it needs definition in order to become aware and know itself.

So, this infinite presence exploded into fragments of that infinite love, fractals of love..... rebellious rascals for love,
within the geometry of creation, expected to do their homework. Only the homework is covered by the veil of forgetting
and so we need to find out what it is we may do and create our homework on the planet ourselves, or maybe bring it
with us from the other side through birth. It's for the freedom of expressing myself in authenticity, that I am in the School of Life.
I think the colored part of the message below is significant in living up to graduation day. We truly are the warriors of our time!




Part 1 of a Message Received by Mercedes Kirkel from Mary Magdalen
On November 16, 2014 at Unity of Sedona

Hello beloveds.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for opening your hearts to me, to Yeshua, to love, to light.
Thank you for being here at this time and bringing your light at this time
of upliftment and change on Earth, which requires all of you to do your part.
And so you have come.


For some it has not been easy; perhaps for many. And yet you are here.
And we are here. Not only me, not only Yeshua, many, many beings, who you
may not be able to see or sense or feel—yet. You will, with time. All of you will.
Whether that time is now or later, we are here.


And you are here. This great change is underway and you are all a part.
I thank you for the work that all of you do in bringing your part forth.
Each part is essential. Each part is precious. Know that about yourself,
and know that about each other, as well. You depend on each and all,
as do we all. So I thank you from my heart, as does Yeshua.


I would like to hear your questions. What is in your heart?
What is it that you would like help with, that you would like understanding around?
Please ask your questions.


Question: It seems the higher I go in consciousness, the more I’m aware that
I can soar to absolute bliss and then walk out into my lifetime and become extremely
irritated with those around me, who I dearly love. So I’m wondering if part of this time
that you’re talking of is resolving these little tics we still have that are almost like habits?
Would you have any divine guidance of how to remain at peace and not allow small things
to become irritations, how to just flow with the bliss 24/7, so to speak?


Mary Magdalene: You are one who has a vast capacity for communion with the cosmos.

Questioner: Thank you. I feel that.

Mary Magdalene: And your completion of this time period involves a kind of slowing down,
in a certain sense, which may be very irritating to you personally. It involves experiencing
your limitation, to the point of coming into complete love in that form, love of the limitation itself.


Questioner: I see. It’s not easy.

Mary Magdalene: No. And primarily it’s the limitation of yourself, because you are so enabled to be so big,
so enormous. So to experience that limitation is painful.

Questioner: Yes, it’s very painful.


Mary Magdalene: Yes. Yet that is your completion work,
to not only experience limitation but to find love in that place—
love as yourself, of yourself, in limitation. Ironically that will be your freedom.
When you find that love there will be no limitation.


Questioner: Oh, joy.

Mary Magdalene: (laughs gently)


Questioner: Thank you.


Mary Magdalene: You are welcome.



©2014 Mercedes Kirkel, http://www.mercedeskirkel.com
All Rights Reserved. Permission is given to share this message
as long as the message is posted in its entirety, nothing has been
changed or altered in any way, and Mercedes Kirkel’s credit of authorship,
this copyright notice, and Mercedes Kirkel’s website (http://www.mercedeskirkel.com) are included.

Thank-you BB. As usual -- that was profound. I guess I'm mostly frustrated with the fact that there is a lack of careful and scholarly point-by-point discussion regarding the most important topics imaginable. The name "ortho" is fine. It's a lot better than some things I've been called within this very website!

Thanks ortho, I can imagine you happily present in the Greek society, part of a group of students with a teacher, in passionate dialogues.
These days, I smile when I see myself as a minister's daughter, having denied that fate for a long time, but now appreciated after all,
for I see no chance to flee from that fate and who knows, a fate that was ordained for me, as props on my life's playground, so that I
could develop my skills of communication. Only the last 10 years my writing skills start to come out and now it's evolving faster.

I guess you're also blessed by a bit of a flegmatic nature, for I think it's enormous for one human being, you, to go through this amount
of information and data and finding no answers that satisfy you. Specially, when you mention that 90% of what's going on in your mind
isn't shared here. That's a wry and dry humorous remark to me.

Here's an interesting view, resonating with mine, on human life, present on the page of this link http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/uc_bakaoukas4b1.htm


A Guest Submission
by Spencer Paine, Swarthmore College, Philosophy, a student in College Year in Athens' Spring 2003 philosophy class.
Section B. The Platonic Philosophy on the Good Life.
Critical Essays Dealing With Plato's Philosophy on "The Good Life"


The foundation of Plato's theory on the good life rests on the idea that everything has one function or use which it is naturally suited for.
The justness, beauty, virtue and excellence of the particular thing all depends on the fulfillment of that function. According to this idea,
even man has one function for which he is naturally suited. Man is, of course, a bit more complicated than a chair or a horse, so figuring
out his proper function is by no means an easy task and one subject to much debate. For Plato, though, man's function is dictated by nature
and thus objective. There is no relativism or subjectivism involved; each man cannot decide for himself what his function is. Rather, there is
one universal function dictated by nature that is the same for all people in all circumstances and situations.

In the Republic Plato argues that the proper uses or function of man and his soul is to live justly and to achieve a state of unity and harmony.
Man consists of several parts, each different and with different aims, goals and appetites. He lists the intellect, spirit/courage, and physical
desires as the three parts of the soul, though he may simplify this for ease of understanding. That's irrelevant though, it's just important to
conceptualize the soul as composed of several conflicting parts. But this state of conflict is undesirable and man must attempt to harmonize
his soul. This can be done by teaching each part to perform its function as nature dictates, without interfering in the business of other parts.

It is important to realize that each part is intended to perform its role well, not just to perform it. So, in the case of physical desires, pursuing
all types of luxurious pleasures is not a job well done; that part of the soul should simply aim at survival and good health. When all of these
parts are pursuing their aims in an appropriate fashion, there can still be some conflicts. It is the job of reason in circumstances such as these
to intervene with other aims, intent on balancing the soul, providing some satisfaction for all. When this is accomplished, when the parts of the
soul are fulfilling their natural functions well and, under the guidance of reason, are in harmony and balance with the others, then the soul is just,
unified, good and happy.

But for Plato this does not seem to be quite enough. This is an appropriate and fitting state of being, but surely just being is not performing
one's natural function. A knife may be sharp, smooth, clean, well-balanced and of good size, but until it starts cutting it is not performing its
function. And so the above description is not man's function, but merely the state of affairs or being required to properly perform his function.
It is in the Phaedo and Apology that we get a sense of man's proper, natural function. He is to pursue knowledge, intelligence, and ultimate reality.
This is the way man truly attains virtue and it is on par with the path of the gods. In The Republic Plato argues similarly, proposing that man is
to search for the good and the other forms. In both these cases man's function is to use his mind/intellect/ reason in search of truth, knowledge
and ultimate reality. The body is a hindrance, an obstacle in this search and it must be struggled against by the soul at all times.

It plagues the mind with all sorts of desires and appetites, barely giving the mind time to think. So it is the job of man to remove
himself as entirely as he can from his body, to use it only in the barest, simplest fashion, only to survive. In this way he will minimize
its impediment and allow himself to pursue his true function to the maximum of his ability. And this quest and search is man's function
and the only way to the good life. It depends on the justice and harmonization of the soul. Socrates even admits in The Republic that
he himself knows not just what the good is, but he knows we should strive for it and the knowledge of it.

All of this is fine and good, a noble pursuit, but it seems like just another attempt to create meaning and give structure to our lives.
The pursuit of knowledge is admirable and I think very worthy, but in terms of inherent value or meaning, I think it is the same as
watching game shows all day or dedicating your life to sport or vice. One is, ultimately, just as good as the next and gets you just
as far. You just need to decide what is important in your life and what you want to do with it. In addition, I think it is a mistake to
place so much value on the mind/intellect.

Any talk of ultimate reality and absolute truth seems overblown and arrogant. Our minds are limited, weak, fallible instruments,
just as our senses are. They too, can mislead and misguide us, and I see no reason to suppose they are powerful enough to solve
the riddle of the universe. For that matter, I see no reason to believe there even is a riddle to be solved. Perhaps we just developed
a survival tool that, now that our survival is secure, is trying to occupy itself and keep itself busy, all for nothing. If this is accurate,
then one philosophy is just as good as the next, depending solely on personal tastes.

Bibliography (Section B)
Plato-Socrates-Sophists"

To me, it has become a welcome and necessary lifestyle, to include my body, mind and soul, in activities in the physical world and
in relationship with friends and family, with all senses alive and kicking. By including my shadows as well as my light, I have found
the door to love where hurting is present, within. And began to walk over the bridge between my heart and mind, so that I can find
a way to embody my soul and fulfill its purpose. Including playfulness and mistakes, striving is enough. Sometimes I find myself
on this bridge, pausing and also kicking and screaming. No problem, as long as I know I'm going in the right direction.
Be safe on your path to yours, ortho.

On LinkedIn, I have found a like minded friend, Cheril Goodrich, who shares her wisdom in a beautiful way, as I see it.

quotes from your post above .
"According to this idea,
even man has one function for which he is naturally suited.

The foundation of Plato's theory on the good life rests on the idea that everything has one function or use which it is naturally suited for.
The justness, beauty, virtue and excellence of the particular thing all depends on the fulfillment of that function

But for Plato this does not seem to be quite enough. This is an appropriate and fitting state of being, but surely just being is not performing
one's natural function. A knife may be sharp, smooth, clean, well-balanced and of good size, but until it starts cutting it is not performing its
function. And so the above description is not man's function, but merely the state of affairs or being required to properly perform his function.
It is in the Phaedo and Apology that we get a sense of man's proper, natural function. He is to pursue knowledge, intelligence, and ultimate reality.
This is the way man truly attains virtue and it is on par with the path of the gods. In The Republic Plato argues similarly, proposing that man is
to search for the good and the other forms."


I have been always fascinated with Greek mythology and philosophy .
I have a couple of questions for you .

The above quotes then presupposes that the destiny of man is pre- determined like in the Oedipus Rex play ?
In other words , our attributes acquired at birth by our DNA determine our qualities and our weak points and within those parameters we should try to perform our functions keeping in mind the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom . But our path is pre-dermined by the gods ?
And is there a difference between the " fate " and "destiny" ? We ,in the west confuse the two meaning as just destiny . What's your opinion ?
I like your posts !

enemyofNWO wrote:quotes from your post above .
"According to this idea,
even man has one function for which he is naturally suited.

The foundation of Plato's theory on the good life rests on the idea that everything has one function or use which it is naturally suited for.
The justness, beauty, virtue and excellence of the particular thing all depends on the fulfillment of that function

But for Plato this does not seem to be quite enough. This is an appropriate and fitting state of being, but surely just being is not performing
one's natural function. A knife may be sharp, smooth, clean, well-balanced and of good size, but until it starts cutting it is not performing its
function. And so the above description is not man's function, but merely the state of affairs or being required to properly perform his function.
It is in the Phaedo and Apology that we get a sense of man's proper, natural function. He is to pursue knowledge, intelligence, and ultimate reality.
This is the way man truly attains virtue and it is on par with the path of the gods. In The Republic Plato argues similarly, proposing that man is
to search for the good and the other forms."


I have been always fascinated with Greek mythology and philosophy .
I have a couple of questions for you .

The above  quotes then presupposes that the destiny of man is pre- determined like in the Oedipus Rex play  ?
In other words , our attributes acquired at birth by our DNA determine our qualities and our weak points and within those parameters we should try to perform our functions keeping in mind the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom .  But our path is pre-dermined by the gods ?
And is there a difference between the " fate " and "destiny" ?  We ,in the west confuse the two meaning as just destiny . What's your opinion ?
I like your posts !

Thank you for the compliment, enemyofNWO! I'm as much a wanderer as you are, I suppose.
And at times a wise and at other times a clumsy owl. My posting of this comment of a student,
Spencer Paine, is done for I associated ortho's way of research and questioning style,
the seeming need for dialogue with a decent structure of discussing and the wakeful eye of a
teacher who serves the development of his students.

I myself like that style of dialogues, in that beautiful anciet Greek society. For the questions and
answers were equally honored, for wisdom's sake and not for performance's sake of the replier.
Or the soaring of the teachers' ego, who mostly allowed the students to talk among themselves
in that "game of dialogue", causing a multitude of views expressed by all of them, offering many
facets of truth suitable for their level of learning with an openness to change their minds on it

I don't believe in any fixed outcome by the Gods, but I believe there's an evolvement by natural
laws of life, like creations' geometry as the foundation or instrument for it, appropriate to the
cyclical nature of life. As far as I have the knowledge to discern, we may choose to walk along the
path with those unfolding of laws, or choose different and invent our own laws to live by.

I think, this minister's daughter thinks.... ha ha, that all is fine, for I feel that we are in essence spirit
beings, choosing for this life and all the lifetimes connected to this one on the planet and elsewhere.
The veil of forgetfulness seems to become threadbare and holes seem to appear in it now.
I see that as the cause of much bewilderment, confusion and insecurity, for the reality is shifting and
the reality of the world outside, as we know it to recognise and define ourselves by.

Nothing is more devastating than not recognizing the world around you anymore. I see our world,
material and immaterial, in a transformation, accompanied by the fire of purgatory, not the one the
Catholic Church invented, but a process inherent to nature's laws. Which, to me, are my great friend
Merlin's laws.

Many of those flames are violent and dramatic visible efforts of the ptb, who intensify them, for fear
of losing ground. Personally, I can't see anything stopping that loss of ground now and I am so very happy!
I'm convinced that all the scam and manipulation of life and consciousness is vanishing in that purgatory of
truthfire. I see us all go through a process like the burnishing of a sword. This is Exalibur of king Arthur.





I see the shift, that change of vibration on the planet and in all cosmic bodies as the cause for planetary change
and personal change. We are part of all life and we can't jump from that train. ET GO HOME? YES PLEASE?
Who's giving the answer? I think we may choose to go home, all by our free will. And who knows, it may be that
it only takes the effort to realize that we are home already and only need to let go of our belief system.
We human beings love to make things complicated, for our mind loves excersize to keep up appearenced for our ego.
What I feel as an invitation of life, welcoming me, is a motion towards just being and less doing. From a state of being
I can jump into action, and although I am often full of beans and a Capricorn besides that, that jump is a different quality.

I like to see it as synchronicity when energy is in a flow and forces are working for me and with me, including those around me.
And when I experience that everything falls into place within me. I like to see fate as an outcome of my own doings and diddings
and destiny as a creation of my own imagined reality, by the use of attention and intention relative to the depth and the moment I
have access to these qualities. I believe we are present with many likewise old souls, walking this Earth, recovering from forgetting
and the suffocation by veils.


As the essence of creation I see it like this, first there's an idea and from that follows form. "In the beginning there was the word",
to me that means a thought.....an idea.... became conscious and creation became possible as a result of that. Just like my idea to
offer ortho my words and see what comes of it. Without a fixed idea about it's outcome. For I hadn't expected you here today and
how your questions inspired me to create this reply. Have you received answers to your questions, by now, enemyofNWO?

are you this channel of mary ?

No Exchanger, I am not the channel of Mary, presented in this thread.
Here's what it says about the person presenting it, on top of that message:

"Part 1 of a Message Received by Mercedes Kirkel from Mary Magdalen
On November 16, 2014 at Unity of Sedona"

and below the message is the info of its source, with details and copyright of this material.
Hope you've got an answer to your question?