Are you an awakened one?

Better Hurry. Im getting hungry!

Floyd wrote:Thanks Mudra. I know you give alot of input here and I appreciate it..however could I be greedy and ask you to send a big box of dark Belgian chocolates over. I promise not to share them with anyone and will eat them all myself

Well you have got my mail Floyd . Send me your adress and I'll send you these chocolates .
However I must warn you their taste is really better appreciated when shared

Love for You Floyd.
mudra

Good question...
It’s my greatest concern – all the time. Awakening. Do I do this? Or do I do that? What is enlightened? For me: enlightenment means that when I see or hear something that stirs me, that I don’t react from a visceral place – I examine it – I’m mindful of it, and I remind it that “IT” is not in control, but that I’ll watch it. And then I’ll act. Hopefully

One of the most precious things I was taught, is the ability to listen.
Because you can't talk & listen at the same time.

Listening to people with something worthwhile to tell, has taught me a lot.

I like teaching, I love learning.

TRANCOSO wrote:One of the most precious things I was taught, is the ability to listen.
Because you can't talk & listen at the same time.

Listening to people with something worthwhile to tell, has taught me a lot.

I like teaching, I love learning.

Isn't that why some tribes have a talking stick?

You cant talk unless you are holding it.

Funny as I think of that, I see an almost modern equivalent in the radio microphone's that are given to audience members who want to speak in large gatherings :)

John..

TRANCOSO wrote:
Because you can't talk & listen at the same time.

It's no coincidence the word " silent " is contained in the word " listen "



Love from me
mudra

tacodog wrote:I really don’t know what “awakened” means. Born again? Saw the light? Some claim to have awakened to the (their) truth. I see some logic in a whole lot of theories, proving them is a little more difficult. Mostly, I just sit on the fence, watch, listen, and try to learn what I can and see where the evidence/gut takes me. My gut doesn’t seem to really know for sure either. Am I awakened. Nope, I doubt it.

Awakened on its own doesn't help. It is what you have awakened from that requires understanding, which you don't start to get until it starts to happen and it isnt instant. It takes a long time. Luckily for us that illusion too is changing, so the rate of change is increasing as time flows faster.

For a lot of people, awakening symptoms can be that "OMG!" moment... "You mean we have been lied to all this time? The Government are just puppets of people who do not have our best interests at heart?".. far out...

For other people it is the dawning of profound realizations of spiritual truths that extend beyond what our (deliberately) limited education has provided us with. This is an expansion of consciousness.

For me it is a growing realization that as part of all this I (like you and everyone else reading this) have a responsibility because as we intellectually come into the realization that we are part of an all encompassing whole, then every thing that happens is basically down to us.

That realization is the gradual "awakening" to the knowledge that you are not a powerless being living a flawed, distorted and challenged life without total abundance, but you are a creator being with infinite abundance at your disposal.

tacodog wrote:“Truth is a pathless land” no wonder I’m running in circles here.

The fact that it is pathless means there isnt a right or a wrong way to go about this - there is only your way.

John..

I suspect there are a number of awakened ones on this forum. All
anyone has to do is look at the topics and what is revealed by the
various members.

You, me everybody, everybody........ Sorry nearly broke into song.

It is not a question of being awake or asleep. It is a case of remembering, or atleast accessing the memories of the human past?

You should never wake another, because this can only cause harm to yourself and to others. People who say theu are awakening others means they are just gathering people to join in their followers, from one dream state to another. So don't awake anyone is my advise.

The time of the guru is finished, from Wilcox, Dr.Dribble, David Icke or any new aged jesus. That is just reliving the past and serves to keep people asleep in a duality society, destined to fail.

IMHO.

t

mudra wrote:

TRANCOSO wrote:
Because you can't talk & listen at the same time.

It's no coincidence the word " silent " is contained in the word " listen "



Love from me
mudra

lawlessline wrote:

The time of the guru is finished, from Wilcox, Dr.Dribble, David Icke or any new aged jesus. That is just reliving the past and serves to keep people asleep in a duality society, destined to fail.

IMHO.

t

Dr Dribble ...LOL Tom ..
Yes these are the times to not take things seriously but rather having that childlike ever present joy in our hearts ..
Looking at others with scrutiny as to wether they are awake or asleep is missing all the fun I believe .
I often smile at myself or at others and yet my life is far from a paradise . But I found that when I keep things simple I am happy and that there is true magic to just being.

Love from me


mudra

The consesus is then, that to posture oneself as awakened or spiritually advanced over those who need to be awakened is a false ecomomy. In fact it shows nothing but a defecit of spirituality owing to its nature as food for the ego.
Better that we are all taught and we all teach. I learn more from watching the birds in the garden for half an hour than I could watching a 17 hour Wilcock video let alone Dr Dribble!
Thanks for the posts. I learned a lot from them.

Floyd wrote:The consesus is then, that to posture oneself as awakened or spiritually advanced over those who need to be awakened is a false ecomomy. In fact it shows nothing but a defecit of spirituality owing to its nature as food for the ego.
Better that we are all taught and we all teach. I learn more from watching the birds in the garden for half an hour than I could watching a 17 hour Wilcock video let alone Dr Dribble!
Thanks for the posts. I learned a lot from them.

I'll second that..
I love too the "Dr Dribble" quote - right on the button...

eMonkey wrote:

Floyd wrote:The consesus is then, that to posture oneself as awakened or spiritually advanced over those who need to be awakened is a false ecomomy. In fact it shows nothing but a defecit of spirituality owing to its nature as food for the ego.
Better that we are all taught and we all teach. I learn more from watching the birds in the garden for half an hour than I could watching a 17 hour Wilcock video let alone Dr Dribble!
Thanks for the posts. I learned a lot from them.

I'll second that..
I love too the "Dr Dribble" quote - right on the button...

Like to Third that.

Oh dear, Dr. Dribble. Watching or listening to anything he has to
say is pure torture these days. Even DW leaves me somewhat cold.

Playing the devils advocate...
Isn't the suggestion that one is better than someone who claims to be awakened just as idiotic as claiming to be awakened?
There have been many 'masters' throughout time who have suggested that they are awake while others remain sleeping. In fact, you could name almost any 'master', and it is virtually guaranteed that they have made a similar reference. Of course, they may or may not say 'I am awakened', but it is inferred.
Perhaps Gautama Budha, Jesus, etc. were just egotistical?

If I judge another to be egotistical, I am displaying my ego. Whatever I see in another is a projection of what I see in myself.

It depends on whether or not someone was suggesting they were better than the person who claimed to be awakened, which is not indicated from any of the posts above. Rather it was a critique of self styled gurus and self appointed awkened ones. Nor would it necessarily be an idiotic statement to claim that they were 'better' if one could provide a cogent argument that would demonstrate the validity of their claim.

Floyd wrote:It depends on whether or not someone was suggesting they were better than the person who claimed to be awakened, which is not indicated from any of the posts above.

This quote from the first post seems to suggest superiority...
"The mocking condescension of some of these awakened ones is palpable. It is my own view that rather than being awoken, they are in a deep mesmeric sleep of self delusion."

Floyd wrote:Nor would it necessarily be an idiotic statement to claim that they were 'better' if one could provide a cogent argument that would demonstrate the validity of their claim.

And who is to decide whether an argument is cogent?

Floyd wrote:Rather it was a critique of self styled gurus and self appointed awkened ones.

I understand.
Like I said, "Whatever I see in another is a projection of what I see in myself."

Something is cogent if it is logical. Critising the mocking condescension of self appointed awakened ones does not imply superiority in any manner whatsoever. There is no reference to superiority there but there is a criticism of those who think they know better. This does not automatically imply that one would nominate themselves as 'better' during this process of thought
On what grounds can you substantiate that what you see in another is a projection of yourself. Do you have any proof for this or is it just a vague statement without any real basis?

Something is logical only in theory. In reality, logic does not exist. Logic relies upon consistency. Consistency is only a theory. Everything is changing all the time. Even math is not logical. It is often based on theory/guesswork. These theories are constantly changing/evolving. Logic is a myth.

Criticism is fine. Even condescension is fine. I have criticized and been criticized. I have been condescending and been condescended toward. I have no problem with either criticism or condescension. Likewise with judgment...
They can be useful tools for opening the door to different perspectives, or they can just be hurtful and pointless...depending upon how they are used.

Ask 5 different people to describe the same person. You will get 5 different descriptions. Now, let's assume that the person being described never changes in any way... Ask the original 5 people to describe this unchanged person again 5 years later. Even their individual descriptions will be different than they were originally. This is because each person will describe the other according to their own experiences and level of awareness. These experiences and levels of awareness are ever-changing, never constant.
If you had asked me 2 years ago whether the 'awakened' ones you refer to are "condescending", "self-delusional', and "clowns"... I would have said "Absolutely". Today I have a different perspective. Tomorrows perspective may be different than todays. These perspectives are not logical. They have no basis in reality. There is no proof to back them up.

I am simple playing the devils advocate in pointing out for everyone that...
I can interpret you in many different ways and perhaps none of them would be accurate.
In the same way, you can interpret the 'awakened' ones however you like, but that interpretation may or may not be accurate.


I leave you with this...

A Zen master had been put into jail several times.... Now a step further! These Zen people are really eccentric
people, mad people – but they do beautiful things.

A Zen master had been put into jail several times.... Now, it is one thing to forgive a thief, it is one thing not to think that he is bad, it is another thing to go to jail oneself. And not once, many times – for stealing small things from his neighbours. And the neighbours knew, and they were puzzled: Why does this man steal? and such small things. But the moment he would be out of prison he would steal again, and he would go back. Even the judges were worried. But they had to send him to jail, because he would confess.

He would never say, ’I have not stolen.’

Finally the neighbours gathered together, and they said, ’Sir, don’t steal any more. You are getting old, and we are ready to provide you with all that you need – all your necessities, whatsoever it is. You stop this! We are very much worried, and we are very sad. Why do you go on doing this?

And the old man laughed. And he said, ’I steal in order to get in with the prisoners, and bring them the inner message. Who will help them? Outside, for you prisoners, there are many masters. But inside the jail there is no master. Who will help them, you tell me?

This is my way to get in and help those people. So when my punishment is over and I am thrown out, I have to steal something and go back again. I am going to continue this. And I have found there in jail such beautiful souls, such innocent souls – sometimes far MORE innocent....’


Once it happened, one of my friends became a governor of a state in India, and he allowed me to go into jails all over his state. And I went for years, and I was surprised. The people who are in jails are far more innocent than the politicians in New Delhi, than the rich people, than the so-called saints. I know almost all the saints of this country.

They are more cunning. I have found in the criminals such innocent souls.... I can understand this old Zen master’s idea – of stealing, of getting caught, and bringing the message to them. ’I steal in order to get in with the prisoners and bring them the inner message.’

Source: " Zen: The Path of Paradox, Vol 2 " - Osho

The time of the guru is finished, from Wilcox, Dr.Dribble, David Icke or any new aged jesus. That is just reliving the past and serves to keep people asleep in a duality society, destined to fail.

IMHO.

t[/quote]
Your assessment of David Icke as a new age Jesus is your opinion only...personally I like the man...how many articles have you written on topics A to Z!!! Keep on ....
_______________________________________
Drinking

Hi.
Its interesting that you point out that there is no logic in mathamatics.
I agree with you that perspectives can change.
Its ironic that you end with a quote fron Osho, exactly one of the 'awakened' ones I was criticising. He extracted thousands of dollars from his followers and basically and had little or no integity. Hardly the hallmark of a wise soul. Not very inspiring really.
I always enjoy our little exchanges though.

Don't blame it on Osho.
It's his flog that f#cked up.

As much as I want Holland to win the world cup Trans I have to disagree with you.
Osho was corrupt as where his inner circle. Too much money sex and drugs and he failed to set an example.
At university I studied cults and NRM's (new religious movements) There eas a chap there who stayed at his ashram in in India and told me how it psychologically ruined him and many others.
This is an article by a former follower of Osho who knew him very well.


Bhagwan lied when he said he
had enlightened
disciples. He lied when he said he never made a mistake.
Later
he was forced to admit he was fallible as his list of bungles grew to
monstrous
proportions. He lied by pretending that the therapy groups run by
his disciples were not mainly a money making device. Rajneesh
broke
immigration laws and lied about it in court. He lied by saying
that
he was adopted in a phony scheme to get permanent residence
status.
Bhagwan Rajneesh was no murderer or bank robber, but he certainly was a
very big liar. The ridiculous thing is that all of his lies were
totally unnecessary and counterproductive. Honesty really is the
best policy.


"Sadly, Rajneesh lied when he
claimed
he was not responsible for the horrors of the Oregon commune because he
hand picked Ma Anand Sheela and the people who committed the major
crimes
of conspiracy to commit murder, poisoning, first-degree assault,
burglary,
arson, and wiretapping. The fact that Rajneesh did not order or
have
pre-knowledge of the most serious crimes does not mean he was not
ethically
responsible for them. If a teacher puts a drunken sailor in
charge
of driving a school bus and the children end up dead, then the teacher
is responsible for their deaths. Rajneesh knew what kind of
person
Sheela was and he chose her because of her corruption and arrogance,
not
in spite of it. In a cowardly attempt to evade his own failings
he
changed his name from Bhagwan to Osho, as if a change in name could
wash
away his sins."

A true meglomaniac.

http://rajneesh.info/
Excerpt