The Price of Spiritual Knowledge

"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion"

L.R.Hubbard

"Real Masters never charge for their services, nor do they accept payment in any form or any sort of material benefits for their instructions. This is a universal law among Masters, and yet it is an amazing fact that thousands of eager seekers in America and elsewhere, go on paying large sums of money for "spiritual instruction.". Masters are always self-sustaining. They are never supported by their students or by public charity."

Julian P. Johnson, The Path of the Masters (1939)


When I was at university I studied both cults, new religious movements as well as Indian religious philosophy and Mahayana Buddism. I noticed that what all the new religions were selling, you could get a better version of for free or practically nothing if you went back to some of the original buddhist or hindu material. Even some of the bible isnt all that bad.

I also noticed, that the majority of the founders of new religious movements were motivated by money and the fact that they had such amazing special knowkedge, that only they were right and that to receive such knowledge you had to pay a price for it. Rather a large one at that. Many of the personalities at the head of such movements would undergo a name change thus validating themselves as a special one. Mostly these names are egocentric and somewhat ridiculous.

My point is, does truth have capital value? Has god allowed for franchises to be set up where universal laws and spiritual knowledge can be disseminated through groups gurus and societies at througha nice pay structure.

I would have thought that essentially, anybody charging large ammounts of money for any kind of spiritual metaphysical insights have not the least idea what spitituality is about.
A true teacher or understander of wisdom, would surely go about their business in a humble and quiet manner, charging little or nothing on the way, leaving the fee charging profiteers to their deluded and greedy trumpet blowing.

It is understandable such a teacher of spiritual wisdom may take a few small donations or have their costs looked after. But to make a business of of spirituality demonstrates a total absence of the understanding of spiritual wisdom and its application in daily life.

Lets take a look at some of the organisations, and individuals I am talking about and see how much they are charging unsuspecting individuals and lining their pockets at the same time

1. Scientology. $380,000. to become OT 8 (KS-5)
http://www.sweenytod.com/cos/pricelist.html

2. Ashayana Deane (anna Hayes). Once you become addicted to her shopping cart she and her business orientated hubby, Azahyana, will empty your wallet to the tune of arrounf 16,000 euros if you bought all of her products.
http://www.azuritepress.com/Products_UK/azurite_press_products_uk.php

3. Wilcock. If you bought all the products in Wilcocks store today it would set you back a cool $1,500 plus the cheeky bugger is asking for donations of up to 5,000!
http://divinecosmos.com/amember/signup.php

4. Learn how to contact an alien with Steven Greer. This will cost you a paltry $150. Like Wilcock, aswell as having a shopping cart he is also asking for donations, this time up to $500 a month
http://www.disclosureproject.org/ctp.shtml

5. These jokers will also happily relieve you of your monies. There is annual tithe but again, like others mentioned here, there is also a graded initation based on occult fraternities, and each rise in grade will cost you more money. The Eckanckar movement is a fine example of how a plagiarist bundled several religions together, formed a hierarchical, graded inatition system and turned a 'new religion into global a multi million dollar organisation.
The Significance of Eckankar as a New Religious Movement.
http://www.dci.dk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=338:eckankar-a-classic-study-of-a-nrm&catid=143&Itemid=36

6. Jelaila Starr. Shopping cart value just under $4,000. Spiritual value-0. Also connected to the NESERA scam
http://www.limboland.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=nc >Visit the Niburian Council online store (I kid you not) to say goodbye to your cash now!

I wonder if Kerry Cassidy is on a commission deal with Wilcock and Hayes as she constantly promotes both of them. Likewise isnt it odd that Bill Ryan is an Ex scientologist. Not sure how much the group he belonged to charged. Strange innit?


I will add more fraudsters to this list now and again but now I want coffee.

Interesting poll Floyd. I know exactly where you're coming from, as I'm most of us here do. Reminds me of a few stories from the past.

I asked a well-known magician/so-called psychic how he justified charging so much for his services when he came to my home for a 'channeled' message. His response was that many people don't "respect" messages they are given for free, only believing it has some value if they are charged for it. When I looked around, I found that to be true in the minds of many 'consumers'. I've found the same applies to Art and many similar things. The higher the price, the more people want it and are prepared to pay. And as for some of that Art..........well. And we know scams have been pulled playing on that very stupid attitude.

The other story is about a well-known channeler who used to give his messages away for free on the Net. That early stuff is still available but you can only get the new stuff if you pay. And that coincided with a message attached to the available channedled material which states...
"You can reproduce these as long as you quote me and God as source. If you wish to send a love offering in exchange for what you have received, click here." I thought it was very interesting that he put himself before God as needing to be credited, not to mention claiming it came from God Himself.

Oh well, if people need the lesson........

IMHO I think is fair that people charge a reasonable amount for their work, after all we pay for science fiction, DVDs, CDs, movies etc. We all have to have resources to live and those giving their interpretation of reality do have to make a living too. Even if you go to an Ashram, buddhist retreat, catholic retreat one has to pay and they are not cheap. Many cultural trips can cost thousands of pounds only to tell us the "official lies" about the cultures one is trying to discover

If what someone is teaching is what one desires, would it be more important to pay for one's desires or for a new car and following the Jones?

Sometimes putting one's money where one's mouth is does pay off, sometimes it doesn't but it is the same thing across the board. Some consumer items from homes to pins turn out to be faulty and a waste of money too. This must be the only planet where people have to sacrifice the whole of their lives for the privilege to "own" a roof instead of dedicate their lives to achieve their full potential

It turns out that "owning" is a relative concept and one's house can be taken by the governments if they require it. It is called "requisition"

What is more important? following the leads that may point to the gates of heaven or buying clothes?

Some people spend gazillions of money on "modern art", no offense to any artist but what is the real value of a picture in the wall? A relative concept that is very, very personal. I used to collect a bit of art myself, never paid more than few hundred and now I could not afford even that. So in place of art now I spend my money in books and other things that I consider interesting. Why not?

Whatever you do, follow your heart's desire. All experiences are worth it and we learn more from bad experiences than from the good ones. Cunning eh?

I for one am the supporter of the non materialistic aproach of all that has to do with spirituality. For me, it just doesn't makes any sense to put the both (materialistic and spirititualiy) together.

Actually, I have a huge "problem" with any "paid spiritual servicess" offered.

More then everything, finding the value in one's preaching, healing or whatever work connected with spirituality, is connected with my own free will to accept what I was given. And as such, I would (as I do) allways donate something.

Just for the reason that the one offering their services also got their gift (be it real or faked) donated by the creator and creation. So no need to ask for money or any other rewards, but a free will donation is fine.

Few years back, when I was thinking about myself...what would I do if I were to become a public known healer...I put something together that, in case I'll become that public known healer or offer any other spirituall services, would be the only way I would let the other pay me.

This is translated from my native language into english and might not be well understandable for you. But in it's core, it goes like this:

The value of what I give you can't be measured in any materialistic worthiness and rewards.
In opposite: the sparkling in your eyes, your kind words and your with bright smile and with love filled shinig face will be my reward.

So you too, please don't wage the value of what you received in any materialistic worthiness and rewards.
In opposite: please go within and ask your heart, your soul and your body for an answer if you believe/know what you got.

If the answer is yes, you were already rewarded.

And only then you'll know the value of what I gave you.

I would tell this to anyone who might want to pay me for what I offered. And if someone wish to donate something...that would be fine too.

And I'm sure that acting like this, I can make this world be a better place to live.

much respect
malletzky

Great thread Floyd.

Truth is priceless and price-less.

It's my humble opinion that one that has tasted the divine in flesh is left speechless. Everyone else that describes it and tries to sell you on it, is selling you a small fragment of the truth. They are still in a survival mode like the rest of us and need to charge a fee.

Thanks for starting this thread.

Hello Adv
Good to see you .



Love from me
mudra

I voted no because they are not gurus IMO. If the question was rephrased, should ordinary folks be allowed to charge a price they determine for their services/teachings, I would vote yes.

--sjkted

I held my nose - and voted 'Yes'. I believe in free-enterprise, and if people are stupid enough to turn these idiots into millionaires - so be it. I think people should be smart enough to stay home, and do their homework on the internet (for free), even though their every move is being monitored, and in many cases - recorded. That's the stupid and crazy world we presently live in. If I were to try to get rich - it wouldn't be on the backs of ignorant or desperate people. Ethically - enlightenment should be free - but I still believe in free-enterprise - so I am conflicted regarding whether it should be laissez faire (lousy fairy) capitalism - or not. In other words, 'should the enterprise be free?' Floyd - your post was priceless. I completely agree.

I voted 'Yes' because when they do it tells something about their personality.

The more they charge, the less I trust them.

Good points ODM and Transcoso. It does help in the process of discernment, doesn't it, and it allows for the free will of all concerned. Often they'll have enough of what they've learned up on their website to be used as 'bait' that can prove useful as well for we broad-ranging seekers. So I guess it's a win-win situation for all concerned.

That leads to another thought. Money is not evil, any more than having lots is not evil. It's what's done with it that defines the 'evil'. Many of these people appear to take the money so they don't have to work for 'the man', thus using their time and energy to empower someone else. They use their time and money instead to do more of their own 'spiritual work', including writing books and travelling the world to share their knowledge and get it out to more people. Maybe their role could be seen more as 'beacons' for those who are still in the 'consumer mindset' to attract them to the path and encourage them to begin to do more personal research themselves in terms of them thinking, "Wow, if he/she came up with all of this by going within, what might I find there if I do the same?"

So maybe they are just pieces of the bigger picture, their lesson within that possible being avoiding the ego traps of fame.

TRANCOSO wrote:I voted 'Yes' because when they do it tells something about their personality.

The more they charge, the less I trust them.

Interesting replies everyone.
There are a couple of views that state,.. well..its a free enterprise so why not. I think its important that if people have a product or a service they are allowed to do do something with it, to develop it, etc.

Like Adv2 though, I would say truth and cosmic or spiritual experience and knowledge are priceless and should be exempt from sale. Such things would be universal and in principle, these wonders should be made avialable to all regardless of financial position. These laws stem from the outer and do not arise from the individual selling them, whether they have channelled them or learned them from another self styled guru or society in turn. What then makes them so precious that they can equate this knowledge and experience into hard profit whilst doing little or nothing to relieve the suffering of their fellow human beings in a practical manner?

By charging ridiculous ammounts of money for so called secret knowledge, (eg, you must buy volumes 1 and 2 first before you pay for course/level 3) these profiteers are a priori excluding people without money from their graded initiated path to perfection as prescribed by their special (often copyrighted ot trademarked..how on gods earth can you have the audacity to put a registered trademark after spiritual lore?)secret way.
What does this mean? That only those fiscally able are suited to their spiritual payment plan. Is God doing credit checks these days? Are the others broke by karma and deservedly so.


In the final analysis, I would say the Great Lord TRANCOSO has hit the nail on the head, the crux of the matter if you like.

With each more penny one of these types charges, the quality, validity and level of trustworthyness of the material goes down. When the materials are marketed in a way to get you buy everything, I find that a very cynical approach. Mockingly condescending towards its customers/disciples to say the least and absolutely void of spiritual quality, intuition and style.
In fact, if anything is over a tenner (thats £10 sterling for our non British friends)....run for your life

All you need is love
and all they want...is your cash
In love light and dollars
Floyd
ps a couple more con merchants added to the list FYI.

sjkted wrote:I voted no because they are not gurus IMO. If the question was rephrased, should ordinary folks be allowed to charge a price they determine for their services/teachings, I would vote yes.

--sjkted

Hello. It was only used for a general example really. I have other words for people like them and it is not gurus. Although strangely enough it also ends in an s!

A new entrant in the top ten of money obsessesed con artists is the fiscally talented Jelaila Starr. The earthly representative of the Niburian Council apparently. Remember Investigators post linking her to Wilcock and the NESERA scam. The contents of her shopping cart will set you back just under 4,000 dollars and contains utterly worthless channellings from Niburians and contains such gems as..Ascension and Money..There you have it.
Her materials have to put in her in the Anna Hayes catagory of con artists but there are more of these woman who are very skilled at channelling money into their bank accounts.
God bless them.

Spiritual Rich List Top Ten

Investigators post linking Starr to the NESERA scam
http://www.themistsofavalon.net/t594-jane-burgermeister-is-a-fraud#10651

It seems that Mrs might be a baby if one it to compare it to Elisabeth Clare Profet and the Church Universal and Triumphant

Lambs to Slaughter: My Fourteen Years with Elizabeth Clare Prophet and Church Universal Triumphant
by John Joseph Pietrangelo, Jr.
Self-published (available from John Pietrangelo, 1039 E. Gifford Dr., Tucson, AZ 85719), 1994, 143 pages.
Reviewer: Joseph Szimhart

Lambs to Slaughter is a self-published book about the author’s 14-year hiatus as a devotee of Elizabeth Clare Prophet and her Church Universal and Triumphant (CUT). This is a story about manipulated devotion and mind control from the perspective of a former true believer. It is also an intimate look at a prophet-guru during her formative years as the leader of her own marginal religious movement. As with nearly every notorious cult leader in recent decades, this story includes the misuse of power, sex, and money by a less-than-genuine, self-proclaimed spiritual leader of the planet.

Pietrangelo first met Elizabeth Prophet in 1969 when her group was called "The Summit Lighthouse" in Colorado. He was a young and spiritually ambitious college student from Mississippi who quickly fell under the allure of Elizabeth Prophet and her then-husband, Mark Prophet, who founded the church in the late 1950s. Mark and Elizabeth were spirit mediums who called themselves "messengers." After their marriage in 1961, they claimed to be the sole living messengers of the ascended masters of all the world’s religions, including some whose names are idiosyncratic to the cult. In New Age parlance, they "channeled" beings like , Jesus, Buddha, K-17, Morya, Quan Yin, Afra, Hercules, Mighty Victory, Astrea, Shiva, Pope John XXIII, and so on—more than 35 by my count.

In actuality, today Elizabeth Prophet heads one of the more successful sects that stem from Rosicrucianism and, more specifically, from the Theosophical Society founded by Helena P. Blavatsky and others in 1875. Prophet’s church has between 5,000 and 15,000-plus adherents, with diversified commitments worldwide. The core group of several hundred staff members is supported by an estimated one to three thousand devotees living in Montana, where the sect is headquartered.

Such sects and channelers all claim to represent a Great White Brotherhood (GWB) of ascended masters who allegedly are guiding all of humanity into a new age of human and planetary advancement. This new era is variously called the New Age, the Aquarian Age, higher consciousness, a paradigm shift, or the seventh cycle or round. Other noteworthy GWB sects are the Ramtha group led by J.Z. Knight near Seattle, Washington, and the Order of the Solar Temple which performed a ritual murder/suicide in October 1994 (and again in 1995), when more than 60 devotees in Switzerland, Canada, and France died. CUT’s parent group, the nearly defunct I AM Activity, founded in 1934, has experienced a minor revival since 1980.

Pietrangelo became a church staff member in Colorado in the early 1970s, when he took a position as a chef in the kitchen which served a staff of 70. "My salary was twenty dollars per month gross. So compensation for an assistant chef, who labored some four hundred hours per month, was a grand total of five cents an hour ... plus room and board," writes Pietrangelo (p. 18). His room was a shared barracks in the attic of the church center. Throughout the history of CUT, staff members have been expected to make similar sacrifices. The leaders, however, have always lived well.

The author recounts the two most significant relationships in his life as a result of his initiation into the Summit Lighthouse, later renamed Church Universal and Triumphant as a tax shelter (p. 84). He met his wife, Susan, during his early years as a devotee. They had five children and remain happily married despite their harried existence as cult members. He also met Randall (Kosp) King, the man who became Elizabeth Prophet’s young, third husband after Mark Prophet died in 1973.

Pietrangelo’s first-person account exposes the reader to a very personal journey into what the author once believed was the most important position any human being could have—that of serving the one person who stood at the crux of human destiny. In order to establish herself, Elizabeth Prophet has claimed an incredible array of past lives including many queens and saints. Her devotees call her "Mother," and believe she wears the crown of the World Mother (p. xvi). Pietrangelo recounts his struggles with the Prophets, both of whom exhibited loose tempers and a highly manipulative style of leadership, using "crisis management" and deception: "Life in the organization, as in all cults, was a roller coaster ride with incredible highs and fearful lows. There is never a dull moment, never a let-down of emotional tension" (p. 72). For instance, just before Mark Prophet’s untimely death and afterwards, the members were required to buy survival equipment, gold and silver, and guns because of a predicted collapse of the economy and the onset of a war. This activity was called "Operation Christ Command," and the Prophets maneuvered to profit from sales of supplies to the devout. Pietrangelo points out that the church sold products at inflated prices, 40% to 50% higher than retail, to the naïve "chelas" (literally, slaves) (p. 73).

It took the author 14 years of sometimes tortured belief before he and his wife finally made the break from CUT and Elizabeth Prophet in 1983. It may be difficult for some people to understand how an otherwise intelligent man could do this. What most people do not understand is the process that someone goes through before and after conversion to any extremist view and allegiance to that view. Pietrangelo intersperses his story with commentary about the persuasiveness of the leaders and how their subtle and not-so-subtle influences led to his mind control, or "brainwashing." Only too late did he realize how much his emotional investment in the group promise could be manipulated.

The promise included not only the ultimate opportunity for personal and planetary salvation, but also the power with which to subvert and conquer all evil. The two most important elements in the CUT formula for salvation are a strong allegiance to Mother and the practice of decreeing. Decreeing is a form of rapid chanting of a large collection of prayers, commands, and invocations used by CUT members for self-improvement, planetary purification, and self-defense. CUT teachings include identifying a host of "dark forces" in the guise of black magicians, spirit entities, and evil, colored rays that become pervasive in the consciousness of the believer. Pietrangelo was caught in this tangled web of forces, which only Mother Prophet could truly identify for him. He had unwittingly entered a psychic minefield with only one way out: through Mother’s direction—that is, until 1983 when he had an intimate chat with his longtime friend Randall King.

This is perhaps the most revealing and most controversial portion of Lambs to Slaughter. By 1980 Randall King had been divorced from Prophet and exiled from the cult. After many months of confused existence, King began to collect his wits and his self-esteem. He met with Gregory Mull, another former CUT member, who had been sued by CUT’s leader for money. In order to protect himself, Mull initiated a countersuit claiming fraud, psychological slavery, and money owed him from six years of unpaid services as a church architect. Mull had been kicked out by Prophet after he learned that she was using the devotees’ written confessions as references when they were supposed to have been burned. King became a star witness for Mull, who won his case against Prophet and CUT. In 1986 Mull was awarded approximately 1.5 million dollars.

Pietrangelo reports that Prophet tried to manipulate him into testifying against King in her behalf, but she made one too many errors. Prophet tried to convince Pietrangelo that King once had threatened her with a knife and drew blood. Pietrangelo confronted King with this information. It was then that King, shocked by the lie, opened up to his friend and told his bizarre tale, a tale that included months of erotic massages and mutual masturbation with Mother, even before Mark Prophet died. According to King, one week after Mark’s death, Elizabeth brought forth (channeled) Mother Mary, like a personality puppet, to marry her and Randall in a very private ceremony, after which they had intercourse.

Sex among the Philistines or the unenlightened is one thing, but in CUT teachings, extramarital sexual contact has been strictly forbidden. It was not the sex, however, that bothered Pietrangelo; he was most angered by the ugly duplicity of the woman to whom he had submitted his soul’s salvation, albeit a woman he had begun to dislike. He told his wife what he had learned. They both snapped out of their enchantment with CUT and left, never to return.

Pietrangelo’s testimony is tinged with remnants of a wounded disciple who is still angry, even though he claims to have recovered. He lacks the cool objectivity of a trained sociologist who might overlook anecdotal evidence in an assessment of CUT. I can imagine some scholars I know dismissing Pietrangelo as merely another disgruntled person seizing on anything that might feed a "reaction formation." I do not see him in that light.

Since 1980 I have interviewed many former CUT staffers and several dozen former members. From 1979–80 I myself was a devoted student of CUT’s teachings and attended three CUT conferences, so I have some idea of the nature of the group. Pietrangelo’s story is well within the realm of truth—of that I am quite certain. The value of his book is inestimable for the curious new recruit who has doubts, and for the burnt-out staff person who may be wondering whom he or she may have been serving all those years.

Another book was published on CUT earlier in 1994 by more sympathetic scholars (Church Universal and Triumphant in Scholarly Perspective, edited by J.R. Lewis and J.G. Melton, published by Syzygy: Journal of Alternative Religion and Culture). Compared to Lambs to Slaughter, Lewis and Melton’s presentation is anemic, lacking all sense of the exaggerated drama within the cult, and provides no convincing analysis of the all-important leader, Elizabeth Prophet.

Prophet’s staged grandiosity as well as her childish vulnerability come through strongly in Pietrangelo’s portrayal of her. However, he often lapses into an old game that ex-cult members play: "my guru was better than your guru," meaning that Mother was more conniving, convincing, clever, and classy than other false prophets. He writes, "Elizabeth is unequaled .... A more skillful Sophist can not be found" (p. 38). The suggestion is: "It took the best to program me. I would not have fallen for just anybody." Of course, such claims are subjective because even the most committed seekers rarely submit to more than two or three gurus before they finally get the point.

If anything, that is the point of the book: once a person is conned into the orbit of a manipulative leader and the system controlled by one, it could be a long time before one realizes how deep the deception and how sinister the manipulation had been. Lambs to Slaughter is the honest confession of one who now does.

Joseph P. Szimhart
Cult Information Specialist/Exit Counselor
Pottstown, Pennsylvania

Floyd I think it will be interesting if you give us the numbers on Drunvalo Melchizedek, Tiberon (Earth Keeper) and JZ Knight I think they are the daddies of the N Age movement and charge hansomly for the priviledge, we don't want to leave them out, do we?

In any case for those that are into those things, checking with the ICSA - International Cultic Studies Association SEARCH is always a good idea

Here is the link

http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_bookreviews/bkrev_blavatskysbaboon.htm just enter the name in the search box at the top

Wow! the CUT spent 25 million US in the 70's building a bomb shelter with the money of their adepts, they had to take loans, give up their jobs, etc. I can not believe that cult is still going






How much was the rest? Elisabeth Profet owned the site

Andromeda wrote:Floyd I think it will be interesting if you give us the numbers on Drunvalo Melchizedek, Tiberon (Earth Keeper) and JZ Knight I think they are the daddies of the N Age movement and charge hansomly for the priviledge, we don't want to leave them out, do we?

In any case for those that are into those things, checking with the ICSA - International Cultic Studies Association SEARCH is always a good idea

Here is the link

http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_bookreviews/bkrev_blavatskysbaboon.htm just enter the name in the search box at the top

Hi Andro

Yeah I worked for a short while at a cult information centre while at uni. Some of the anti cult groups you have to be a bit cautious about as they are run by fundamentalist christian groups and just as bad as what they are criticising lol. Some are ok.
The book you refer to Blavatsky's Baboon is a critique by Peter Washington. A good read. He is incorrect about a lot of things however and is out of his depth when it comes to understanding esoteric philosophy but there are two sides to every coin and I would recommend this book.
At the place I worked in there was a a general understanding that new age groups were harmless and it was the usual suspects, scientology, moonies, ISKCON that generated the most enquiries. Generally speaking..it is the ones that charge excessive ammounts of money or who want you to give up everything, and tithe your wages in part or all to the group which are the dangerous ones, and yes, that does include many so called 'new age groups'

I started a thread about Claire Profit (pun intended) here
http://www.themistsofavalon.net/t2297-elizabeth-claire-profit
Indeed her son has an interesting website and its a good read.

It should be remembered there are two distinct histories between Theosophical groups and I AM groups. There is no real connection between the two apart from an understanding that Ascended masters exist. Theosophical groups like to have liitle to do with the I AM Movement as they do not believe the heads of such groups, King, Innocente, Prophet, to name but a few ,are bone fide and that that there are no living connections to the Masters. The I AM movement has taken on a form of its own, often coming across as ultra evangelistic and fundementalist in style. They are also very pro American, their leaders dress like white supremacists and they have few if any non white members. This is not a characteristic of Thesophical groups that have many asian members for example although the history of the TS was blighted by its own internal bickering.

My own personal view, is that outside of its societal ups and downs, the TS has succeeded in doing much to promote religious tolerance, promote indiginous buddhism against the wishes of the Christian missionaries, pioneer womens liberation aswell as movements promoting vegetarianism and anti vivisection. I dont view the TS as a harmful cult and the ask for very little for membership and its free if unemployed. A rare quality in todays new age school of thouts or other metaphysical groups. However, the I AM groups coming out of the states are a different kettle of fish and need to be taken in a different light.
The history of the I AM movement in the states from the ST Germain channelling Godfrey Ray King up to the disturbingly pro American and evanglical Temple of the Presence is fascinating.

Of course, Peter Washington in Madame Blavatsky's baboon also takes a look at the highly charismatic and enigmatic Gurdjieff and the Brilliant Rudolf Steiner. These two dont deserve all the criticism he dishes out. The latter in particular was a brilliant educationalist and agriculturalist as well as an expert on Goethe and occult philosophy.

They were different times however. The others you mention above have the internet at their disposal and many of the new age channellers will gladly use it to take money for messages that never come to pass or are generally vague, repetative and without substance. They deserve looking into like all the others. They have a lot to answer for.

Very interesting this is the body guard of Ramtha dishing the dirt and talking about her money management, long videos http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=685

Apparently the what the bleep movie made 35 million and Ramtha of course got a cut too

JZ Knight charges from US 600 to US 5000 per retreat plus books and DVDs, she has a rather busy schedule and it is a worldwide organization so maybe she is the Dady?

http://events.ramtha.com/events/2011/current.aspx

Don't know how many people attend per workshop but I am sure they are popular

Mate, if they want money, they have nothing useful to sell. It is worthless. The new age business is highly lucrative. And they know it.
I will take a look at tthe links later as now Ive put the veg out and I feel an afternoon pint coming on.

Drunvalo seems rather secretive and only partial information is found in his website. He has 8 events this year and he charges US 555 plus accommodation is not included. Also plenty books and other things in his shop

Earth-Keeper has a lot going on, from webinars at the tune of US 144 each to trips which can be from few hundred to several thousand http://www.earth-keeper.com/earthkeeper.shtml He also sells books and very pricey gem stones http://earth-keeper.com/category.aspx?categoryID=2

So far I think Ramtha is the richest and more entrepreneurial followed by Earth Keeper

You are right Floyd, it seems to be a very prosperous business for some...still I think that people should do what they fancy provided they don't lose their heads in the process and become "followers"

I have always err on the side of caution, better research first and see. Most are just re-inventions of other more ancient material but there are exceptions from time to time IMHO

Andromeda wrote:Drunvalo seems rather secretive and only partial information is found in his website. He has 8 events this year and he charges US 555 plus accommodation is not included. Also plenty books and other things in his shop

Earth-Keeper has a lot going on, from webinars at the tune of US 144 each to trips which can be from few hundred to several thousand http://www.earth-keeper.com/earthkeeper.shtml He also sells books and very pricey gem stones http://earth-keeper.com/category.aspx?categoryID=2

So far I think Ramtha is the richest and more entrepreneurial followed by Earth Keeper

They are all as bad as one another. Many of them charge hundreds of dollars for 'spiritual voyages'

You can have a deeply spiritual weekend in a carvan in North Wales for a hundred quid without being anywhere near these jokers, false prophets and channellers.

They all now how to market their products. The problem is with many new agers, they get hooked and go from one teacher to the next expecting truth and fulfilment and buying their products and holidays along the way.
I would say everyone is special enough to find their own truth without outside mnaipulation and untruth supplied by these profiteers.

Right...Guinness

Good Poll .

But should also the established religious institutions ( I call them parasites ) be supported by law by taxes imposed on the unwilling workers ?
This is precisely what happens in Italy .

"
DESTINATION eight per thousand ( IRPEF )
Based on the choices made by taxpayers in the tax return, a share of them through eight per thousand IRPEF made available from the offices based on the annual statements is intended for public interest or the social or humanitarian to direct state management, a religious or charitable purposes-tive to the direct management of the Catholic Church on social and humanitarian work is also favor-of the third world countries by the Italian Union of Christian Churches of 7 ventiste av- Day and the Assemblies of God in Italy, for the purpose of social, assistance , humanitarian or cultural as a direct management of the Waldensian Evangelical Church.
The split between the beneficiary institutions will be in proportion to the expressed choices in the tax form . If taxpayers do not make any choice, given the tax rate will not be allocated among the afore mentioned institutions, according to the proportion resulting from the choices expressed, no allowances payable to assign it to the Italian Union of Christian Churches Adventist Day 7, the Assem-blee of God in Italy and the Waldensian Evangelical Church will be devolved to the state-run. To express a choice in favor of the beneficiary institutions in the share of eight per thousand IRPEF, the taxpayer must sign it in the box corresponding to one of those institutions. Can be expressed only one choice. "



http://www1.agenziaentrate.it/inglese/booklets/chapter3.htm


"
8 per mille" (eight per thousand of Irpef)

The Inland Revenue donates eight per thousand of the Irpef collected according to the taxpayers’ personal choice to governmental bodies with social or humanitarian aims, or for religious or assistance purposes provided by the following religious institutions:
Catholic Church;
Italian Union of Christian Adventist Churches of the 7th Day;
the Assemblies of God in Italy;
the Valdese Church, Union of Methodist and Valdese Churches;
the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Italy;
the Union of Jewish Communities in Italy.

The taxpayer can express his/her choice by signing in the corresponding box, and can choose only one institution.
The amount for taxpayers who do not sign, which is thus not allocated, will be subdivided between all recipient bodies according to the proportion of choices expressed. The amounts not allocated pertaining to the Assemblies of God in Italy and the Valdese Church fall under state management. "

The catholic church is one of the worst cults around.
A bit of mind control here, guilt control there, rampant peadophilia, billions of dollars here and there and still taking donations of its flock