Calling All Carnivores

devakas wrote:

burgundia wrote:I wish there was a solution...even if we stop, our pets won't.

pets can be fed with ghee which replaces meat for meat-eaters even better.

Our feelings sometimes are just sentiments and we act on it as we develop sentiments without reason.
Cheaters push their agenda. Mind and feelings are triggered.
Dogs do not sit and think about why they live and how they live.
They are honest with nature they do not lie, when they smell they run towards, they just use their senses to satisfy their senses.
Humans have ability to think and realize the truth, however we are using our senses to satisfy our senses including feelings which is material thing.

This is it. I feed my cat meat. She loves it. But although I feed my cat enough, she always catches birds and alike. These tend to be pointless deaths to me. Apart from the obvious reason that a cat is a cat and a bird is a bird.

So my question would be. Should we press our agenda or reality on cats and dogs alike, making them do something which they should not be doing? Is that because we press our reality on other animals for eating?

Very interesting thread this.
thanks deakas



t

Humans have ability for self realization. We should respect all souls. Pets are for selfish satisfaction. Usually temporary. The worst is to get attached or develop attachment to them.

Pointless death as you lawlessline mentioned can be a great new thread! I know there are T-type persons who go for extreme too.

All matter has three gunas (sattva, rajas, tamas (goodness, passion, ignorance)). I think we can relate all variety of material bodies and minds to those gunas.

devakas wrote:
Humans have ability for self realization. We should respect all souls. Pets are for selfish satisfaction. Usually temporary. The worst is to get attached or develop attachment to them.

I so do not agree with this. Pets teach lessons about love and unconditional love. They are a way into a person's emotions who may have been blocked and or provide loving interactions where love is experienced in a non-judgmental manner. They can provide a safe space for love to grow and blossom - where in another circumstance this may not happen.

I eat free range chicken and fish plus the vegetarian stuff...haven't eaten meat for many years. I must agree with Carol as I don't mind getting attached to my pets at all...the more bonding the better...and pets give unconditional love which is more then I can say for some humans.

______________________________________

As Above So Below

Well when I became a vegetarian I decided my very cool pet dog should do also. It would help him live longer, be healthier and help in his transition onwards from the animal kingdom in a future existence because our relationship allowed such an opportunity to arise. A truly karmic and symbiotic moment. I also felt it was necessary to stop buying dog food meat as I had a certain responsibility there and weighed up whether it was necessary for my hound to eat dead horses which I realised it was not and instead munch on flakes. I decided the latter was the case. I dint ask his opinion as he was unable to speak but I did have a few telepathic thoughts sent his way telling him what the deal was going to be.

So I started to get him what can only be described as a cross between hamster food and muesli. In all fairness he disliked it and what look at me with 'what's this crap you are feeding me' eyes. My four legged friend got used to it though and his meals were extensively supplemented with a wide variety of vary tasty snacks and human food which he loved.

he was a small dog and lived for 17 years which was a very long time and he lived a happy life as that collection of molecules.


People will make their own decisions though.

I don't think I would ever get a pet in the future but there are plenty of animals around to enjoy in nature. The birds who eat my nuts (no, not those ones)from the bird table everyday are my new friends.I provide them with a vegetarian diet of a selection of tasty seeds and bread. However, im sure they help themselves to gourmet worms and flies on their travels when they are available and that nature.

Overall, the fewer amount of beings that are treated miserably before being violently slaughtered to provide meals for humans and animals the better.

That has to be the bottom line. Animals don't understand that but humans do and we can take that decision.

Great dog, he was.

devakas wrote:
Humans have ability for self realization. We should respect all souls. Pets are for selfish satisfaction. Usually temporary. The worst is to get attached or develop attachment to them.

This is a great thread. I do not have a cat for pet reasons, as I understand what you are talking about. If attachment to pets are bad, just think what 3 kids do to you. This is one of the main problems I come across in my work, attachment which helps to maintain or stagnate the reality changes that we are having. Therefore making a jerking, no jokes please, , to the reality that is happening now. Fluid transition is the order of the day, Aquarius right?

My cat and my departed dog were friends and only a part of our greater family. We feed each member of our family, including the birds and the trees. As you said we can choose, but what is not too say that animals have already choosen and just waiting for us to catch up? When we do we could catch up to plants aswell?

Great thread.


t

Floyd wrote:

he was a small dog and lived for 17 years which was a very long time and he lived a happy life as that collection of molecules.


People will make their own decisions though.

My friend Nicky, who was a dog. Doesn't really agree with you opn that one. He was a farmers dog who wanted to chase the cows rather than herd them up. He would steal the cat's food directly from the tin. Open the tin with his teeth leaving puncture wholes in the tin and I am sure he swallowed alot at the same time.

Nicky was nicnamed the Bear. Simply because he was the size of a bear. And when I say massive I mean massive. St.bernards would look on the fat and short side to him.

Anyway I am getting lost on fond memories. So back to the point. He died at the age of 13/14, which is a ripe old age for his size. He was only expected to do 10/12 yrs. I am not convinced that way of living has the final say.



I do think that our beings are adapted to both worlds, meat and vegetale. It is then the choice of the individual to choose their reality. A world without meat eaters would certainly be a different world, but would it be a better one? Maybe we need the meat consumption at that time to progress out of eating meat?? I only ask as I don't have the answer this second and follow the thread of an expanding idea.



t


t

Nice dog pic Tom.

Well all I can say is that my dog's (vegetarian) diet never did it any harm and probably quite the opposite.

The over riding factor here is making a conscious effort not to be support the slaughter of animals and the general maltreatment of them. That is what it boils down to.

The founder of the Krishna movement famously once said, " the cow gives us milk, therefore it is our mother"

Likewise, the wool of the sheep keeps us warm so we make kebabs and burgers out of them as a sign of our compassion, respect and appreciation to our fellow travellers in space and time.

I understand it is not going to be the case (at the moment) where we live in a world of lentil eating hippies and that people must make their own decisions as part of their own karmic process. Compassion in world farming and ethical farming are better than nothing and provide an alternative for those for whom vegetarianism is not suitable.

There are alternatives to dog meat and cat food so it is a very reasonable option if one is already a vegetarian and exploring ways to look after their pets without the involvment of the meat industry.

In a recent survey,9 out of ten dogs recommend it lol


Peace To All Beings

Floyd wrote:Nice dog pic Tom.

Well all I can say is that my dog's (vegetarian) diet never did it any harm and probably quite the opposite.

The over riding factor here is making a conscious effort not to be support the slaughter of animals and the general maltreatment of them. That is what it boils down to.

In a recent survey,9 out of ten dogs recommend it lol


Peace To All Beings

Nice one Floyd. I agree with you there. I had a Cockrel or Coq in French, no jokes please, , who used to attack us. Just doing his coq thing. When he started to attack the kids flying at eye hieght, I decided to end his service to the other chicks and let the next generation follow through. So I decided to kill the bird myself. It is some very enriching experience. Not for the killing of another being, for that experience I think everyone has done at some point in a life somewhere. When I explained what was going to happen. He closed his eyes and drifted off. I then did what I had to do and we had a lovely Coq au vin. I didn't do any more because the experience was enough. But I think people need the experience to change the experience?

This is the sort of thing I mean. I am not agreeing with this practice, just observing the human race as a spectator and how they are coming to grip with who and what they are.


PLEASE BE WARNED THERE CAN BE SHOCKING IMAGES IN THIS DOCUMENTARY. I HAVE NO WISH TO CAUSE ANYONE PAIN SO YOU MAY DECIDE NOT TO WATCH.




t

Floyd wrote:



Overall, the fewer amount of beings that are treated miserably before being violently slaughtered to provide meals for humans and animals the better.

This is what I think too...the fewer have to die, the better.

So what about Halal Meat or Kosha meat??

I have seen it done here on a sheep farm. So I know what I saw, and associate the same experience I had with my Coq. Still no jokes please.


t

lawlessline wrote:So what about Halal Meat or Kosha meat??

I have seen it done here on a sheep farm. So I know what I saw, and associate the same experience I had with my Coq. Still no jokes please.


t

I have seen videos how sheep and goats and others are being killed Kosher or halal way...it was a terrible sight.

burgundia wrote:

lawlessline wrote:So what about Halal Meat or Kosha meat??

I have seen it done here on a sheep farm. So I know what I saw, and associate the same experience I had with my Coq. Still no jokes please.


t

I have seen videos how sheep and goats and others are being killed Kosher or halal way...it was a terrible sight.

For me it was down by a priest with a set of prays then down the only it can be. Not a sport or a hobby. But I think it was better than the abortoire way. Also when I did my coq, he knew what the score was and was in agreement to the conclusion. He went into a meditive state before I did what was done.

So is there a good way to satisfy the needs of certain animals. A lions take of a wilderbeast what not be a human way as we would say.

So I guess this comes back to the thread of finding an ethical reason for eating meat, killing for the wants of others? I find it hard to find my self, but it is something that should be addressed by society.



t

Abattoirs are quite often even worse. But it all depends on the people who work there. The thing is that a lot of people who work in such places are sadistic psychopaths who enjoy causing pain, suffering and distress to animals.

burgundia wrote:Abattoirs are quite often even worse. But it all depends on the people who work there. The thing is that a lot of people who work in such places are sadistic psychopaths who enjoy causing pain, suffering and distress to animals.

I have to agree with you on this.

One could say they are enjoying their work.

Another point to consider is the indigenous tribes that eat meat or forms of. Basically because they have no real alternative option. If we take the inuit, they used to eat raw seals, they may well be still doing just that, I couldn' say.

But then there is the Massia who drink the blood of the cow. But they don't kill the cow and they never look too stressed.

So could the ethical point be the up keep of tradition or knowledge of how to where they live.

Maasai diet

Traditionally, the Maasai rely on meat, milk and blood from cattle for protein and caloric needs. People drink blood on special occasions. It is given to a circumcised person (o/esipolioi), a woman who has given birth (entomononi) and the sick (oltamueyiai). Also, on a regular basis drunk elders, ilamerak, use the blood to alleviate intoxication and hangovers. Blood is very rich in protein and is good for the immune system. However, its use in the traditional diet is waning due to the reduction of livestock numbers.

More recently, the Maasai have grown dependent on food produced in other areas such as maize meal (unga wa mahindi), rice, potatoes, cabbage (known to the Maasai as goat leaves), etc. The Maasai who live near crop farmers have engaged in cultivation as their primary mode of subsistence. In these areas, plot sizes are generally not large enough to accommodate herds of animals; thus the Maasai are forced to farm. Our people traditionally frown upon this. Maasai believe that tilizing the land for crop farming is a crime against nature. Once you cultivate the land, it is no longer suitable for grazing.

[b][i]

For further reading http://www.maasai-association.org/maasai.html

The earliest known, by my five second research, so I could be completely off the ball, vegitarianisme is from the 6th cbc. Could this not be part of our changing DNA?? COuld it be that since th introduction of veggies as a sole diet means parts of a DNA is closing down????



t

Welcome back Ortho!!

I am trying to come to conclusion from all not posters and posters on this thread. It is hard. Actually it is even sad that we humans were not taught from our childhood in this society the truth who we are, nature laws and how we need to live in the matter. Humans create all kind of theories to convince themselves of the ‘righteous’ or sin behaviors, actually to convince self and others. That’s all.

I fast on each 11th moon day as it is said by Shastras this one day can save 10,000 cows - souls. Or it is equal of contribution of gold or tons of sesame seeds or many other good things - manifested. Those are special days. There are more things about the how humans should live. But is it not easy to understand. When we sometimes have a glimpse of understanding, all fails to its right place and there are no more questions. And again it is darkness and wondering, then again we have the little bit of understanding and again darkness and questions are left in our hearts. Those who are advanced in consciousness they know more, they know a lot, some know all, but they see clearly that there is no way to speak to ordinary humans, it is even too funny. There are even some truths not disclosed to advanced ones. Gradually, realization is gradual. Otherwise it can be taken away. For some humans their previous life karma is blocking the understanding and they feel they are ok, they are smart and they are advanced, but the truth is that there are blocks invisible. Curtains. Because of many millions years of lives created those blocks. It is not easy to break it up. It is possible. Not easy. One of the problems is that people are self centered and not transparent to the nature. Ego, self satisfaction, satisfaction of senses is one of the blocks-curtains. To be humble with nature, to be transparent with nature some higher gifts need to be received. When the self centered person thinks that he/she is god (it is very hurting by the way) or all talk about materialistic things or mind (speculation), this is self centered person. Matter forces people to identify somehow themselves and the center of materialistic self as body – mind is there. This is one of the serious blocks. The symptom is those self centered persons will never stop arguing. Until death they will not be happy.
Habit is another block. When we know that it is not good, we still do it, we are blocking ourselves down. Another block is to ignore the creation, god, to have atheist’s thoughts or not to think about our existence at all or even be angry on god (btw it hurts too). Another block is to have a bunch of desires and gamble with them. This is speculation to yourself. So all this collective consciousness brings us to sxxxx situation.

By reading Srila Prabhupada there is no better way to bring the message to humans as He did. He had no blocks I just mentioned, he knew (knows) how it works, he was realized soul.
We can see that we are causing the wars, we are criminals, ouch it is not pleasing to hear, but I believe in him.

1. "You are killing innocent cows and animals. Nature will take revenge. Wait for that. As soon as the time is ripe, the nature will gather all these rascals, and club, slaughter them. Finished. They will fight amongst themselves, Protestant and Catholic, Russian and France, and France and Germany. This is going on. Why? This is the nature's law. Tit for tat. You have killed. Now you become killed"
(Conversation 6/11/74)

We find in modern warfare that attacks are made upon innocent citizens who are without fault. According to the law of Manu, such warfare is a most sinful activity. Furthermore, at the present moment civilized nations are unnecessarily maintaining many slaughterhouses for killing innocent animals. When a nation is attacked by its enemies, the wholesale slaughter of the citizens should be taken as a reaction to their own sinful activities. That is nature's law.
(Srimad Bhagavatam 4.11.7)

In this age of Kali the propensity for mercy is almost nil. Consequently there is always fighting and wars between men and nations. Men do not understand that because they unrestrictedly kill so many animals, they also must be slaughtered like animals in big wars. This is very much evident in the Western countries. In the West, slaughterhouses are maintained without restriction, and therefore every fifth or tenth year there is a big war in which countless people are slaughtered even more cruelly than the animals. Sometimes during war, soldiers keep their enemies in concentration camps and kill them in very cruel ways. These are reactions brought about by unrestricted animal-killing in the slaughterhouse and by hunters in the forest. Proud, demoniac persons do not know the laws of nature, or the laws of God. Consequently, they unrestrictedly kill poor animals, not caring for them at all. This Krsna consciousness movement is the only means by which the sinful activities of men in this Kali-yuga can be counteracted.
(Srimad Bhagavatam 4.26.5)


In Kali Yuga - The Age of Ignorance
Vedic Knowledge Sheds Light On the World
Bhagavad Gita As It Is

"Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world."
TEXT 16.9

The demoniac are engaged in activities that will lead the world to destruction. The Lord states here that they are less intelligent. The materialists, who have no concept of God, think that they are advancing. But, according to Bhagavad-gita, they are unintelligent and devoid of all sense. They try to enjoy this material world to the utmost limit and therefore always engage in inventing something for sense gratification. Such materialistic inventions are considered to be advancement of human civilization, but the result is that people grow more and more violent and more and morecruel, cruel to animals and cruel to other human beings. They have no idea how to behave toward one another. Animal killing is very prominent amongst demoniac people. Such people are considered the enemies of the world because ultimately they will invent or create something which will bring destruction to all. Indirectly, this verse anticipates the invention of nuclear weapons, of which the whole world today is very proud. At any moment war may take place, and these atomic weapons may create havoc. Such things are created solely for the destruction of the world, and this is indicated here. Due to godlessness, such weapons are invented in human society; they are not meant for the peace and prosperity of the world.

To increase our consciousness should be everybody’s business as Kali Yuga is the decay as the future on planet will go worse. Think that the civilizations quality is always given according to consciousness at this period. Unfortunately Kali Yuga is a decay in consciousness. It is said that for 10K there will be seen the Truth for some, and then will go down.

The truth always existed and to know it is always possible for some, when blocks are removed.
As science the same way religion dance in the rhythm of two – knowledge and rejection (forgot Sanskrit words), or in other words by degrees of both. We constantly learn and constantly reject, life after life. In other words this is another problem that as a science the same way any religion operates both knowledge and rejection through ages. True Absolute Knowledge exists, but the rejection is also powerful. All generations of incarnated souls always freshly try to reject, say this is old and we know better, we experience better, we are young and we feel we are gods. So rejection is powerful, However even highest demons come to Krishna, highest science achievers, but the problem is that they come to the highest realization still with the competitive mood as enemy, face to face with God, we can do better. So knowledge and rejection always exist in material world.


To unblock ourselves to chant Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.
This is scientific solution with all means of sound vibration and matter manifestation or better to say cleansing, I would say as fish needs water, soul needs this vibration.

amen
devakas



I still have hope to have more voters and thoughts on this poll...

I am not a judge, infact I know that the only person capable of judging myself is I. It is all very well to take the higher moral ground and to sy that meat is murder, but the higher moral ground is a perversion of the truth. The truth is that there has never been a species of human, for that is what we are, an animal. Has always eaten meat. The difference today is the way inwhich we consume and produce our food.

A mouse is a mouse, it has never and will never eat the cat. The cat is a cat and will never eat only barley corn. We are an animal like all animals that can eat both. But the laws of nature is that we should expand life, let it grow. To place rules and regulations on its growth is only restricting life axpansion itself. The purification of the spirit passes through vegetation rather than meat. but why do you or me wish to purify our soul? Is it not to leave space to explore and develope life? To develope we must remain true to what we are an animal.

The way in which we eat and procduce is close to an idea of murder. But murder of life experience and exploration itself.


I had a Organic supermarket or mini market really. Here there is the same paradox presented. There is to one side the organic local people and the other is the organic generalists. One wishes produce only to be consumed locally. There is a very strong arguement for this because nature has provided everyone with what they need for where we live. But if we were to practice this. People in northern Norway or in North Canada would not be able to enjoy an orange, olive oil, peppers aubergines. The list is endless. The way in which we have developed the world means that exchange is obligatory to the maintaining of life. But if we are to live in such meat will always be on the menu. If I was to hunt my prey rather than just go down the shop and get it off the shelf. The negative conitations that are attached to meat would be invalid. It would not be murder but a celebration of the cycle of life?

If we were to remain in the idea that eating meat is murder then murdering the earth with our distribution of vegetable produce would be a far greater crime than that of I killing a rabbit. We should not be so quick to judge others and maybe that is the valid reason for people to eat meat? The respect for the natural evolution and creation that is life itself. If I were to hunt then I would do in respect to the spirit that I am preying. I would honour that spirit for being who they are and were.


I was once a Seal, no not a navy seal, no jakes please, . I was eaten by a shark. I was playing in the waves oblivious to the world and a shark came from behind and bite me in the flank. He had a lovely meal. When he had finished and he too was eaten I awaited him on the beach. When he came we laughed about how he caught me and the fact that I was just playing around and not paying attention. There is no judgement after the script is played only during and by the audience. The actors know their way and follow their way till the end.

Chanting is a very strong form of magik, but the words may change but the magik ramains. Belief in the words is our weakness of our belief in ourselves. So know why we chant rather than what we chant. For what we chant is only words made from the mind of animals, Humans.

I do not agree with the modern way of farming and slaughter, for it is not fair game, rather a blood sport. But if everyone gave up meat tday, it would mean that we would have the greatest slaughter of all. The world could not support all the cows, chickens, sheep etc and humans on the tiny growing space that would be left. I would prefer a gradual understanding by the human race and a complete over haul to the way in which we treat each other. That means humans cows plants alike. But we should remain true to who we really are, and if that means you eat or you do not eat meat means that you are celebrating life, its true growth and exploration.


t

I think everyone judges whether they say it or not. Each of us makes judgements many times during each day. It is almost impossible to be non judgemental and there is nothing wrong with making a judgement any way. Its just another word for opinion. Saying 'dont be judgemental' is more often than not an unrealistic statement. Whilst it is a Buddhist view that all opinions are ultimately worthless, for the rest of us they articulate who we are and get us to where we eventually need to be. But that is just my opinion lol. I have heard it said before , be weary of the judge but I would rather say
2Be weary of the judge that says judge not.2 There is an oxymoronic element existing here here. By saying don't judge, one is simply making a judgement themselves so it doest really lead us anywhere and is rather judgemental in itself!...Just one of those funny things in life.Any way...


In the frozen wastes of the north and in other areas where there is a lack of natural vegetation and the only thing on the menu are creatures, then it is not realistic for the indigenous peoples who populate such places to avoid eating an animal or a fish of some description. Their chances of finding a spicy bean burger with extra mayo are doomed to be slim if non existent. For centuries they have only killed what they have needed to sustain the supply and there is often a religious or shamanic relationship with the creatures and a respect that they could not exist without them.

In the west and industrialised nations however it is a very different matter, especially in Europe and North America. It is now entirely possible to live on a meat and fish free diet. People chose to become vegetarians for several reasons. It may be because they love animals, it may be because they are against vivisection and cruelty or it maybe for spiritual and philosophical reasons (usually stemming from the concept of practising ahimsa, or non violence, from Indian religions). Perhaps a combination of all three. The latter reason is obviously tied up with the orientalist philosophy of karma (action) and existing in samsara (the cycle of rebirth and evolution of consciousness and progression from mineral to human to liberation).
The process of eating meat from the stage of violence at its killing in the slaughter house is passed on karmically through its indigestion.
So, there are a variety of reasons why one refrains from eating it. Often I think people don't like to give up things because they are used to them, they are addicted to them or it is too much of a convenience and anything else would be too challenging. As there is every opportunity to be vegetarian in industrialised nations, then for me it was right to take advantage of that opportunity. Others may or may not do the same but the opportunity is there.

Overall I would say it is unnecessary and avoidable to eat meat or fish for massive amounts of the planets population. Not like the old days.

I think its doubtful and unrealistic that we will eliminate the need for slaughter and meat production on a mass scale altogether (although a new earth may see to that). An eventual managed decrease in the use of meat factories would be welcome but that would be a huge international undertaking. There are other uses for animals apart from them being used a s a food source. Whatever the situation, a world with the least amount of cruelty going on it is much preferred.
Meat is just to easy to eat and people dont like to get out of their comfort zones and some people just find it too tasty or are addicted to it. That is up to them and i've never been one to tell people what to eat or drink as many of my family and friends partake in creature eating. If asked though I would always say it is unnecessary and better not to.

As far as mantras go, as I understand it, the names of God in the Krishna mantra are not just merely names or letters But vibrationally represent the sound of Krishna just as intoning the names of the sephiroth in Hebrew represent a vibration of the beings that they represent in qabbalistic magic.

One thing I will say about the Krishna's is that they cook great food and a visit to one of their restaurants is a great way to start a vegan or vegetarian way of life.

Thanks for this interesting thread.

Guess what people. Woosy here doesn't like gardening either. Do you know why?

Because plants are fed dead organic matter ie compost, fertilizer to make them healthy.
Because bugs and grubs are killed to protect the plants the humans want to admire or eat themselves.
Because when the plants are no longer producing as required, they are ripped out and replaced...killed.
Because if they are grown for flowers, those are cut off, just so the humans can admire them in a vase.
Because the hardiest plants, weeds, are ripped out as undesirable...killed.

All life is sacred and all life is part of the food chain. It's just the way it is. Maybe humans care more about animals because they are most like us, but that doesn't make the death of other lifeforms any less sad. Cruelty is wrong. Death comes to all of us.

Besides, aren't we all supposed to believe this is an illusion, and that death is an illusion too? Nothing to be feared?

Well if humans want to continue with their seeming existence they must eat other seemingly existing things.

Animals are sentient beings capable of feeling complex pain and suffering whereas plants are not sentient.

Its all a matter of degree I suppose.
Its either a plant, a fruit or a cow or a lamb, or perhaps a dog if I was Korean.
I go for the plant and the fruit.

I try to keep my plants going as long as possible and when I pick some basil or lettuce I always say hey dude, thanks but Im gonna eat you now.


Sometimes when they are in a bad mood they tell me to XXXX off and go and pick something else...

In which case I go in the corner and sulk and pick my nose instead.

That's just it Floyd, plants are sentient. Here's a link to just one of many websites that say so, all based on scientific research. Books have been written on it too.

http://www.viewzone.com/plants.html

And please don't mistake me, I'm NOT arguing for killing ANYTHING. I just accepted long ago that the only way not to kill for a human is to become a breatharian or die. But, bloody hell, there's even microrganisms in the air we breathe and the water we drink. They are lifeforms too. So maybe death is the only answer to living a purely harmless life. In this reality anyway.

Oh, and Lawlessline, I loved your story about the seal and the shark. I've heard other such stories too and love to think this is the way it really is.