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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:04 am

    Burgundia:
    Now I will tell you a story. It may prove that fondness for meat is so called acquired taste.
    My friend has a son and my cousin has a son. When they were very young children they didn't want to eat meat. Practically they were forced, by other family members, to do it. The former one , as a little child, felt sorry for animals, so they deceived him that what he was eating was meat produced artificially, not coming from slaughtered animals. Now the boy is 19 years old, loves meat, has forgotten about all that compassion he had.
    My cousin's family are all meat-eaters, practically little compassion for other living creatures, as the Catholic church has none and they are all devout Catholics. Her son is now 10 years old and has been eating meat for years now.
    As one can see from the examples above, something good that those children had in them has been "killed" and sth else imposed on them.
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:05 am

    Pheryllt:
    Again, nothing personally against the position and I understand it but to me, when we eat the apple we are killing the child of the tree, it can be said that the seeds are the true continuer of the tree's life but the apple which carries the seed is the vessle by which the birds and animals eat the seeds to spread them in a natural way with the required starter fertalizer to give them the best chance of growing.

    When we eat the honey we take the food from the bee colony and make them work harder to replenesh their own food source so that the colony might live.

    When we take the cows milk, we take what the calves should be drinking so that they might grow up as nature intended.


    When we feed ourselves, we consume life in one form or another. We rationalize the level of our impact into what is acceptable to us and what is not. Some people eat dogs and cats because they have rationalized it as ok due to cultural or sociatial norms while others see it as a horrible affront to decency.

    We each determine what is sustanable, and what is ethical by our own internal compass. If it is done with a sense of thanksgiving, and a mind to sustainability then it becomes an issue of acceptability to the person eating the food.
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:05 am

    Adv:Pheryllt,

    Well said. My $0.02 is that there is no sustainability without harm to life.

    Our earthly creation almost has a hierarchy to existence of life, right from immobile life ( plants ), insects, animals, birds ... etc ( not necessarily in that order ), with humans being at the top due to our ability to discern, think etc.

    It comes down to every human's / culture's rationalization of what is acceptable destruction of life ( plant, animal ). In some cases, like people living in snow/ice round the year, there is no other option than destruction of animal life, in order to sustain themselves.

    If I could change one thing, it would be the attitude that is taken when destruction of other life is involved. That is where we are flawed. We've assumed that since we're at the apex of the earthly creation, we own everything and everything ( including all life ) exists to serve us.

    Like Carol said in one of her prior posts, WE OWN NOTHING. We need to have that attitude and reverence in our consumption, especially when it involves destruction of other life for our sustainability.
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:07 am

    burgundia:
    However taking milk from a calf, and killing the calf and his mother is much different...
    we do not have to take all the honey produced by the bees, half would be enough...
    You do not hurt an apple-tree by eating apples, like you do not hurt your hands by cutting nails, or your head by cutting your hair....
    If you do not eat the apples they will rot on the ground...

    I believe that killing a fly is "lesser evil" than killing a mammal..why? because the consciousness of a mammal is different...

    To me comparing animals to plants in this aspect makes no sense...one may say that a rock has consciousness too, so do not sit on it...
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:10 am

    truth and integrity:
    QUOTE
    I stopped eating meat a long time ago...it may happen sporadically that within a year I will eat it 2 or 3 times. I wish my cats became vegetarian...

    Burgundia,
    You can't be that bad Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Mistsofavalon_lol1 My cat loves beets, beans, or corn but he is a real cat so is yours!!

    Love,
    t&i Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Wub
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:11 am

    Pheryllt:
    Taking the milk from the calf does not kill the mother, she in the long run either doesn't care or we are incapable of discearning a cows "feelings on the matter" about where the milk goes. But if you take enough to feed everyone, the the calf does not get enough and is malnourished and may die.

    Where is half the honey enough? How many people are you feeding that used to eat meat? And now with colonies collapsing are you not putting them in further danger?

    Apples rotting on the ground if you don't eat them, hrmmm well that goes both ways as well. Animals have more offspring than necessary for the continuance of the species if predatation is elimanated. Those animals will then compete with humans for the available food resources and those that cannot find food will die and rot where they fall ... another wasted resource.

    The concept of respecting where your food truly comes from and respecting the life it gives to sustain yours if the true path for me. The movie Avatar had such an apt depection of the concept. It was a very native american feel to it where you love and respect the animals so much more so as they give their lives to sustain those of you and your people and you honor that life given and respect it.

    Killing without a purpose is the problem. People being detached from where the food comes from is the problem. Corporate greed and inhumane treatment of animals as nothing more than dollar signs on hoves is the problem.

    Don't get me wrong. I respect your right to choose what you eat and how you feel about it. That is every sentient beings right, the right to decide what is acceptable to them and what is not.

    I am merely showing another point of view that is equally as valid and saying at the same time, there is enough room for us all to exist and only when we try to enforce our personal beliefs on everyone else do we cause conflict and bring about the chaos that leads to the path of destruction instad of the path that leads to enlightenment.
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:12 am

    Burgundia:
    But if you take enough to feed everyone, the the calf does not get enough and is malnourished and may die.

    You decide how much you take so that the calf doesn't get malnourished.

    Where is half the honey enough? How many people are you feeding that used to eat meat? And now with colonies collapsing are you not putting them in further danger?

    But we are not talking about the dangers to bees but about the concept of using honey and other bee products wisely.

    Apples rotting on the ground if you don't eat them, hrmmm well that goes both ways as well. Animals have more offspring than necessary for the continuance of the species if predatation is elimanated. Those animals will then compete with humans for the available food resources and those that cannot find food will die and rot where they fall ... another wasted resource.

    yes, here we are talking about wild animals.They kill for food and most of them in a humane way (though the word "humane" looks awkward to me in this context)



    Killing without a purpose is the problem. People being detached from where the food comes from is the problem. Corporate greed and inhumane treatment of animals as nothing more than dollar signs on hoves is the problem.

    I absolutely agree with this..the way the farm animals are raised and treated is appalling.
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:13 am

    burgundia:

    My female cat loves coffee with milk and the scent of cigarettes...and flowers (to eat them of course)
    my male cat likes yoghurt... Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Mistsofavalon_biggrin1
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:17 am

    Pheryllt, I agree with you.
    Thanks Carol and Adv for "WE OWN NOTHING"

    Here are my thoughts about human eating meat behaviour.

    IMO we first should understand that we are not the body,
    but we are imortal spiritual beings in this body. Yes, body is ours,
    but we are not the body. I know my body, but I am not this body.

    If we understand that we are incarnated souls, we are visitors here and we've
    taken this body to be in this 'matter'.
    If we are guests here, we can not kill or demand. We only can live in harmony with others
    with nature, with creator.

    We all are looking for happiness and eternal happines is reachable

    Some facts to consider... - Page 2 3gunas
    There are 3 GUNAS (goodness, passion, ignorance) or (sattva,raja,tama) as creator's modes of energy, energy frequencies.
    All are interrelated, but some gunas are more predominant. See gunas post under Vedic wisdom in this forum.
    The more sattva energy with us the better our personalities, relationships and lives.
    Sattva energy can be increased through spiritual practice along with dissociating oneself
    from raja and tama (passion and ignorance) influences as much as possible.
    The company that we keep is a strong influence in helping us in our spiritual practice.
    Ghosts(demons, devils, negative energies and etc.) are primarily raja and tama predominant.
    Ghosts that are lower in the hierarchy or below 50% spriritual strenght such as
    common ghosts are raja-tama predominant. Ghosts that are higher in the hierarchy or above
    the 50% spriritual strenght such as sorcerer (magician) from the 6th and 7th region of hell are tama-raja predominant.

    As ghosts are raja- tama predominant, they frequent raja-tama environments on earth as they are
    most likely to find raja-tama predominant people there. These like minded people are ideal targets
    for possession and carrying out the plans of ghosts on earth. In other words,
    a person who is predominantly in tama (ignorance) mode and who has a liking
    for harming others stands a high risk of being controlled by ghosts to harm society.
    Also tama predominant they cannot tolerate high sattva environments or people.
    Ghosts take advantage of tama predominant environment and people to carry out
    their activities of harming society and reducing Righteousness in the world.

    All three gunas of energy applies to 'physical' particals of energy, humans and cosmos.
    We all are influenced by those modes of energy.

    How we can relate modes to humans, our personality? Where our 5 bodily senses (nose, tongue, eye, ear, touch - mentioned previously) fit in the chart of modes.
    I found this image.

    Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Chariott

    Back to killings. If we can not control our mind and our physical senses, then we are no better than animals. Eat, sleep, survive, mate as satisfaction of bodily senses would
    describe humans as equals to animals. However intelligence given to us for god realization is the difference between humans and animals.
    If we would not use this given to us intelligence, we are not better than animals.
    If we are attached to this matter, we are conditioned by it, our intelligence is low, then we can easy put us in animal category.

    Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Trigunass

    I noticed a strange behaviour when people learn that somebody is a vegetarian, most people start feeling guilty and they start telling how little meat they eat. It happens all the time.
    This guilty feeling I believe is comming from counsciousness. For me it is phenomena. This is why I started this thread as I believe that most people are sattva energy or at least I wish they seek to be in sattva (goodness) mode.


    Namaste
    devakas
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:19 am

    anomalous cowherd:

    I do enjoy your posts devakas, you dont preach but tell it how it is for you and your wishes for respectful peaceful change. When I was a vegetarian for years I found the strangest reactions and preconceptions. One woman didnt ask me over for ages. She thought I would smell bad. HA HA HA. Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Tongue
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:20 am

    Carol:
    Let me add a bit I've learned about this over the years. We were vegetarians for 7 years, no meat. Then we had a daughter who was also vegetarian for many years, will be 14 next week and does not eat meat. She does eat chicken and fist. That's it.

    However, after a number of years the liver stops producing I believe Vitamin B and even people like the Dali Lama must eat meat to maintain his health.

    There is also a story of the Buddha who needed food. A rabbit offered himself to the Buddah to help save him. By accepting the rabbit's offer the rabbit's consciousness was elevated. And when humans partake of animals it is supposedly to help elevate the consciousness of that which is used to sustain human life.

    Whether any of this is true of not I can't say. Yet, I do know that each has to listen to the wisdom of their own body. Some blood types do very well without meat, where other blood types (like the Dali Lama) need meat to sustain and maintain a healthy body.

    I think where many of us fail to maintain a healthy lifestyle and healthy body is that our various cultures demand us to focus on that which takes away from life rather then add to it.

    If the schools incorporated yoga classes at the beginning and end of each school day.. if they promoted healthy food and healthy lifestyle, if the focus was on simple daily living which also included music, dance, art and the creative spirit, I think we would see a major change in human advancement.

    As it is now, the children are last and the military comes first. Why?
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:23 am

    Thanks for your input Carol as always with integrity, knowledge and wisdom.
    I love your paradise you are creating in your garden, I love your knowledge and understanding of dark and hidden affairs in this planet
    and I adore your work you share with us. You are my star! I booked this forum and still have much to learn from you.

    I believe that there is a book written for everyone, there is a food given to everyone on this planet. We just have to find it with our free will.

    Otherwise it would be not fair and not harmony.

    I think Vedas and avatar Jesus told that. Vedas said there are 400,000 species of humans on this planet.
    Some can go without meat, some can not. However at least we should try to realize. If we would know that meat is energy and dead energy or energy in pain is not sattva energy, but tama or raja, if we would know that sprititual energy is accumulating in bodies and spiritual energy as anger, desire, kiling, gross satisfaction is accumulating in animal body also, then we would understand why Vedas says 'if you can not be without meat, then at least eat innocent animals', not the body that died with this tama energy. White meat, fish end etc. would serve your energy level.
    This is Vedas true meaning of cleanness. This relates to caste also. Caste structure is everywhere in the world, in every group of people, unfortunately hindu religion messed up all things with this division. I think because of greed, corruption and stupidity.


    thinking about babies, we do not think about meat for them. It maybe very well the cause that human mind creates many theories for health and the meat benefits including. I do not know. I only know we should be aware what human mind can create.

    anomalous cowherd, I understand what you mean. Madness in the world. Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Biggrin
    Jewish religion requires to eat milk before meat, or at least to wait 2 hours after meat before milk can be consumed.
    They say "do not eat cow's milk with cow's baby together"
    I see some benefits here as all who eat steak and finish any fiesta with icecream on the top, they all end up complaining how full they feel and blame their stomach.
    In Israel people love pork, however it is said in Tora "dirty pig's feet can not step on sacret soil." There are farmers who build
    some platform for pigs above the ground and are in compliance with the Tora.

    Pleople come up wiht many excuses as they are in such a conditioned state and live to satisfy their desires without realizing that all is temporary. All in this matter is temporary!

    Though it is not surprising that Kali Yuga is the heavy metal age, heavy 'matter' age with all humans hardly finding sattva energy,
    however this is what clever human mind can create. Another sample of madness in the world and what people mind can come up with.

    We will start growing our meat nuggets soon generically engeneered in labs! this is how 'clever' we are... Some facts to consider... - Page 2 30846 Some facts to consider... - Page 2 426142 Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Kopfschuettel Some facts to consider... - Page 2 597754

    Namaste!
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:28 am

    mudra:
    Blood Type Diet

    Michael Lam, MD, MPH
    www.DrLam.com

    http://www.drlam.com/blood_type_diet/

    According to Dr. Peter D�damo, author of Eat Right For Your Type, a chemical reaction occurs between your blood and the foods you eat. This reaction is part of your genetic inheritance. This reaction is caused by a factor called Lectins. Lectins, abundant and diverse proteins found in foods, have agglutinating properties that affect your blood. So when you eat a food containing protein lectins that are incompatible with your blood type antigen, the lectins target an organ or bodily system and begin to agglutinate blood cells in that area.

    Fortunately, most lectins found in the diet are not quite so life threatening, although they can cause a variety of other problems, especially if they are specific to a particular blood type. For the most part your immune systems protect you from lectins. Ninety-five percent of the lectins you absorb from your typical diets are sloughed off by the body. But at least five percent of the lectins you eat are filtered into the bloodstream and different reactions in different organs.

    Your blood type diet is the restoration of your natural genetic rhythm. Your blood type diet works because you are able to follow a clear, logical, scientifically researched plan based on your cellular profile. Each food groups are divided into three categories: Highly beneficial ( food that acts like Medicine), Foods allowed (food that are no harm to the blood type) and Foods not allowed (food that acts like a Poison)

    Blood Type Diet - Type O

    Michael Lam, MD, MPH
    www.DrLam.com

    Type Os thrive on intense physical exercise and animal protein. Unlike the other blood types, Type Os muscle tissue should be slightly on the acid side. Type Os can efficiently digest and metabolize meat because they tend to have high stomach-acid content. The success of the Type O Diet depends on the use of lean, chemical-free meats, poultry, and fish. Type Os don't find dairy products and grains quite as user friendly as do most of the other blood types.

    The initial weight loss on the Type O Diet is by restricting consumption of grains, breads, legumes, and beans. The leading factor in weight gain for Type Os is the gluten found in wheat germ and whole wheat products, which interferes with insulin efficiency and slow down metabolic rate. Another factor that contribute to weight gain is certain beans and legumes (lentils and kidney beans) contain lectins that deposit in the muscle tissues making them less "charged" for physical activity. The third factor in Type O weight gain is that Type Os have a tendency to have low levels of thyroid hormone or unstable thyroid functions, which also cause metabolic problems. Therefore it is good to avoid food that inhibits thyroid hormone (cabbage, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, mustard green) but increase hormone production (kelp, seafood, iodized salt).

    Several classes of vegetables can cause big problems for Type Os, such as the Brassica family (cabbage, cauliflower, etc.) can inhibit the thyroid function. Eat more vegetables that are high in Vitamin K, which helps the clotting factor which is weak in Type Os. The nightshade vegetables can cause lectin deposit in the tissue surrounding the joints.

    Because of the high acidity stomach, Type Os should eat fruits of alkaline nature such as berries and plums..

    Type Os should severely restrict the use of dairy products. Their system is not designed for the proper metabolism. If you are a Type O of African ancestry, you should eliminate dairy foods and eggs altogether.


    Blood Type Diet - Type A

    Michael Lam, MD, MPH
    www.DrLam.com

    Type As flourish on vegetarian diets Type As are predisposed to heart disease, cancer, and diabetes. It is particularly important for sensitive Type As to get their foods in as natural a state as possible: fresh, pure, and organic. When you get on the Type A Diet, you will naturally be thinner. If you are accustomed to eating meat, you'll lose weight rather rapidly in the beginning as you eliminate the toxic foods from your diet. And when you follow the Type diet, you can supercharge your immune system and potentially short-circuit the development of life-threatening diseases.

    When Type As eat meat, they experience sluggishness. Type As have low stomach-acid content, therefore they have a hard time digesting meat. Since Type As eat very little animal protein, nuts and seeds supply an important protein component. Type As also thrive on the vegetable proteins found in beans and legumes, except those mentioned for the "Avoid" list. These beans can cause a decrease in insulin production, which may cause obesity and diabetes. Tofu should be a staple in the Type A Diet.

    Dairy foods are also poorly digested by Type As, and can cause metabolic slowdown. Type As can tolerate small amounts of fermented dairy products such as yogurt, kefir, nonfat sour cream, and cultured dairy products.

    Vegetables are vital to the Type A Diet, providing minerals, enzymes and antioxidants. Type A are very sensitive to the lectins in potatoes, sweet potatoes, yams, cabbage, tomatoes and peppers. They aggravate the delicate stomach of Type A. Type A should eat more fruits that are alkaline, avoid mangoes, papaya and oranges for they are not good for your digestive tract.




    Blood Type Diet - Type B

    Michael Lam, MD, MPH
    www.DrLam.com

    The sturdy and alert Type Bs are usually able to resist many of the most severe diseases common to modern life, such as heart disease and cancer. In fact, a Type B who carefully follows the recommended diet can often bypass severe disease and live a long and healthy life. Type Bs are more prone to immune-system disorders such as multiple sclerosis, lupus, and chronic fatigue syndrome.

    The Type B Diet is balance and wholesome, including a wide variety of foods.

    For Type Bs, the biggest factors in weight gain are corn, buckwheat, lentils, peanuts and sesame seeds. These foods have different lectin that affect the efficiency of the metabolic process, resulting in fatigue, fluid retention, and hypoglycemia. The gluten lectin in wheat germ and whole wheat products also adds to the problems cause by other metabolism-slowing foods.

    It is important to leave off chicken for Type Bs. Chicken contains a Blood Type B agglutinating lectin in its muscle tissue, which attack the bloodstream and potentially lead to strokes and immune disorders. Type Bs thrive on deep-ocean fish, but should avoid all shellfish. The shellfish contain lectins that are disruptive to the Type B system.

    Type B is the only blood type that can fully enjoy a variety of dairy foods. Most nuts and seeds (especially peanuts, sesame seeds and sunflower seeds) are not advised for Type Bs., they contain lectins that interfere with Type B insulin production.

    Wheat is not tolerated well by most Type Bs. They contain a lectin that reuce insulin efficiency and failure to stimulate fat "burning". Rye contains a lectin that settles in the vascular system, causing blood disorders and potentially strokes. Corn and buckwheat are major factors in Type B weight gain, they contribute to a sluggish metabolism, insulin irregularity, fluid retention, and fatigue.

    Eliminate tomatoes completely from Type B diet. It has lectins that irritate the stomach lining. Fruits and vegetables are generally well tolerated and should be taken generously.



    Blood Type Diet - Type AB

    Michael Lam, MD, MPH
    www.DrLam.com

    Multiple antigens make Type ABs sometimes A-like with weak stomach acid, and sometimes B-like with genetically programmed for the consumption of meats. Type AB do best when their muscle tissues are slightly alkaline. Type ABs can't metabolize meat efficiently because of low stomach acid, so it is important to watch the portion size and frequency. Chicken has lectin that irritates the blood and digestive tracts of Type ABs also. Tofu is a good protein supplements for Type ABs. Nuts, seeds, beans and legumes present a mixed picture for Type ABs. Eat nuts and seeds in small amounts and with caution.

    Type ABs can tolerate dairy foods fairly well. But watch out for excessive mucus production.

    Generally Type ABs do well on grains, even wheat, but keep in mind that the inner kernel of the wheat grain is highly acid forming in the muscle for Type ABs. Type AB benefits from a diet rich in rice rather than pasta.

    Type ABs has a weaker immune system, so you will benefit from the vegetables, which are high in phytocheicals and the more alkaline fruits, which can help to balance the grains that are acid forming in the muscle tissues. Tomatoes do not impose any ill effects on Type ABs.

    Type AB should begin each day by drinking a glass of warm water with the freshly squeezed juice of half a lemon to cleanse the system of mucus accumulated while sleeping.
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:28 am

    Pheryll:
    Very ineteresting, will have to look further into this info.

    and perhaps very telling...... im an O+

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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:29 am

    anomalous cowherd:
    I tried out the blood type diet and it was not for me though some aspects applied . (I also hated pricking my finger Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Tongue .) It's funny, normally I am sceptical of anyone who makes it out into the mainstream, but Dr Mercola is a mainstream alternative naturopathic doctor who really gets my Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Mistsofavalon_thumbsup , He works for me because he has the big picture, politically and environmental medicine wise . I bet a lot of "people" wish he would shut up. It's well worth subscribing to his free newsletter. I mention him because he appreciates certain aspects of the blood type diet but prefers the metabolic type diet.

    I never think there is a one size fits all system, some do well on ayurvedic diets and that's another system altogether. The lectin stuff is very interesting though regardless, thanks Mudra.
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:30 am

    mudra:
    I mentioned the blood type diet as it offers a wide scope of tolerance as regard the relation everyone has with food .

    I have been practising instictotherapy for several months a few years ago .
    We only ate raw and organic food unprepared .. as coming straight from the soil or tree.
    Althoug it was mainly vegetarian some had dried meat or raw fish as well .
    What has been of interest to me is to see how the needs of all members of the family were different .
    We were smelling things before eating them . If they had a beautifull smell it would mean it was good to eat. It would then have a wonderfull taste too. When it no longer tasted that good we would then go to the next thing that smelled good now and so on.

    This has been the best diet I have ever been onto . The body felt light all the time , skin complexion was looking nice and healthy ,eyes had a glow into them . I slept beautifully everyday as soon as my head was on the pillow, I had a lot of energy all the time .
    And last but not least for the first time in my life I felt a strong communion with the different fruits and vegetables . It was as if they we just happy to share themselves with me . Like nature was loving to be so much loved . It was very special . Because the whole diet was based on pure instinct we would also not take more than needed just what was needed and in a sense I found that was a way of respecting nature too .

    The hardest thing was when we were invited to eat somewhere and had to break our diet .

    Love Always
    mudra
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:30 am

    syamakunda:Dear mudra,

    Why did you stop the diet?
    I know someone who has been this kind of "road" for some years.
    I have to say he is compleatly differend shape than before and looks much younger Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Biggrin

    I have been vegetarian for over 25 years and will tell you some secret..
    It can be one unhealty diet too...depends on cook..
    love
    sk Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Mistsofavalon_huglove
    devakas
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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:31 am

    mudra:
    Well the instinctotherapy center that were supplying all the foods that we could'nt easily get on the market closed down and gradually I went off that diet .
    It's really good to hear some are still keeping eating this way Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Wub
    I can't but say again how great it was .
    What stayed with me are meals made out of fruits raw or dried and nuts
    and for the rest as you I am mostly a vegetarian again which is very nice too .

    Love from me
    mudra
    devakas
    devakas

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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:37 am

    mudra, thanks for sharing your experience. I wish all people would get a chance to feel the same way you described.
    Isn't it magic?
    When the options are available, I believe people will make more often a better choice. Thanks again for your inspiration to others! You inspired me too.

    I would like to add a bit our experience not eating meat. When we changed our life style, kids took it so easy, lightly and proudly that it surprised me a lot. It surprised me to see their deep determination and how easy for them, how strongly they believe they are doing right. This was first observation. Secondly, our time increased. Yes, time expanded. We had no stress or short of time to do what we love to do. It's like we had all the time to do what we want to. Time expanded in a way that we always had time for a book, for a good conversation; there were no crazy running out of time, stress and always complaining "I have no time for this". We even found time for piano. I noticed also that kids' moods became smooth and they stopped arguing. They somehow handle conversations in a different way, peacefully and often finish with a good joke. School work they did with ease, but what I noticed that kids started to be involved in more clubs, have more interests. Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Icon_biggrin and I think their taste to music changed to better. Never ever we plan to go back. We somehow recovered the joy and wonder about animals as equal our friends.
    I know these phenomena, when stress is gone and then joy expands our TIME. I know what it means. But what most don't realize - and can't until you go through this experience yourself - is that what comes next is beyond what anyone could have prepared you for. The sense of freedom, of empowerment, of joy that comes with knowing that you are no longer part of that violence and nonsense is indescribable.
    There is one more secret hidden from us humans very well. It was said that it is most well hidden secret to humanity. I will share it later.
    In Kali- yuga eating meat came with a curse "...animals would no longer be humanity's friends: "The fear of you and the dread of you will be upon every animal..."
    Vedas describe animals and human being in joy together in previous yugas. There were place for everyone in Satya and Treta yugas.
    Did you see in Pandora (AVATAR) how locals telepathically communicated with animals? ....thinking about Vedic descriptions of live in previous yugas, when humans are always surrounded by animals. How about unicorns, peacocks,..amazing birds... ? There were no BBQ in first 2 yugas, however in Dvapara yuga sacrifices were invented by humans Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Kopfschuettel yuk Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Icon_pale

    Joy and happiness to you all,
    Devakas
    devakas
    devakas

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    Post  devakas on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:41 am

    Mad mad world....
    Scientists say soon we will grow our meat for consumption in labs. Scientists have grown only small nuggets of skeletal muscle, used in sauces or pizzas...

    ....It might be possible to produce steaks in vats without any livestock. Technology will soon advance to the point where it will be possible to grow meat inside labs, without the need for the actual living things that wear it for some time before being killed for it, say scientists.

    Even today, it is possible to grow tiny nuggets of meat inside special laboratories around the world, but the existing capabilities do not even come close to the vast amounts needed to satisfy the needs of the general population.

    Pork chops or burgers cultivated in labs could eliminate contamination problems that regularly generate headlines these days, as well as address environmental concerns that come with industrial livestock farms, reports Livescience.com.

    Increasingly, bioengineers are growing nerve, heart and other tissues in labs. Recently, scientists even reported developing artificial penis tissue in rabbits. Although such research is meant to help treat patients, biomedical engineer Mark Post at Maastricht University in the Netherlands and his colleagues suggest it could also help feed the rising demand for meat worldwide.

    Stem cells are considered the most promising source for such meat, retaining as they do the capacity to transform into the required tissues, and the scientists pointed to satellite cells, which are the natural muscle stem cells responsible for regeneration and repair in adults.

    To grow meat in labs from satellite cells, the researchers suggested current tissue-engineering techniques, where stem cells are often embedded in synthetic three-dimensional biodegradable matrixes that can present the chemical and physical environmentsthat cells need to develop properly. Other key factors would involve electrically stimulating and mechanically stretching the muscles to exercise them, helping them mature properly, and perhaps growing other cells alongside the satellite cells to provide necessary molecular cues.

    So far past scientists have grown only small nuggets of skeletal muscle, about half the size of a thumbnail. Such tidbits could be used in sauces or pizzas, Post explained in the online edition of journal Trends in Food Science & Technology, but creating a steak would demand larger-scale production.

    source...
    eleni
    eleni

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    Post  eleni on Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:54 am

    devakas wrote:mudra:
    Well the instinctotherapy center that were supplying all the foods that we could'nt easily get on the market closed down and gradually I went off that diet .
    It's really good to hear some are still keeping eating this way Some facts to consider... - Page 2 Wub
    I can't but say again how great it was .
    What stayed with me are meals made out of fruits raw or dried and nuts
    and for the rest as you I am mostly a vegetarian again which is very nice too .

    Love from me
    mudra

    I was instincto too for some time, have done all forms of raw diets from raw primal (with meat) to raw veganism to fruitarianism. I feel best eating little food though. Instincto (done Antje and Roman Spors style) was difficult because one has to get instincto quality food,better done in Europe where they have the instincto food company there. I ate oysters the first 2 weeks I went instincto- I was just coming off 4 years of raw veganism.........that was last year........
    eleni
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    Post  eleni on Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:56 am

    here's an instincto tutorial http://www.genefitnutrition.com/gnot.html
    devakas
    devakas

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    Post  devakas on Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:02 pm

    eleni wrote:here's an instincto tutorial http://www.genefitnutrition.com/gnot.html
    I will look at this, new for me.

    anybody read Arnold Ehret books? He did some experiements
    to prove that humans originally are fruiteaters. He was doctor ~ 100 years ago, healed many and did experiements with
    diets.
    eleni
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    Post  eleni on Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:14 pm

    Yes, read Arnold's book when I was 16- I grew up as a natural hygienist as a child- my mother was into fasting, water fasting, fruitarianism etc; so had early exposure. Then at 12 I tasted brown rice, tofu, seaweed and tamari- finally, flavor LOL! I was hooked for some time.......

    In the proper climate (most people I know who are fruitarians live in Oz, Hawaii or Thailand) fruit diets can work. I attempted it in cold climate and did not fare well.
    Anonymous
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    Post  Guest on Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:47 am

    eleni wrote:Yes, read Arnold's book when I was 16- I grew up as a natural hygienist as a child- my mother was into fasting, water fasting, fruitarianism etc; so had early exposure. Then at 12 I tasted brown rice, tofu, seaweed and tamari- finally, flavor LOL! I was hooked for some time.......

    In the proper climate (most people I know who are fruitarians live in Oz, Hawaii or Thailand) fruit diets can work. I attempted it in cold climate and did not fare well.

    Hi Eleni, raw frutarians can not fare well in cold climates because fruits are quite expensive. But there are many more fruits that just of the sweet kind like beans, fruiting vegetables like pumpkings, marrows, tomatoes etc and seeds

    I tried a raw diet the past summer and was very good, I felt less hungry but come the winter I want hot!

    Anyway, out of kindness to the vegetable kingdom one can make an effort to eat fruits, vegetable fruits and seeds even if they are not just picked of the bush! and even than sometimes they need a little cooking

    Solar cooking is great too, the flavour is different

    Love

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