Kerry has officially lost all credibility

If one really pays attention it is when Bill comes on the scene that chaos reigns. For example, it was Bill who went after Ben by banning him. It was Bill who wanted the Thurban thread deleted. Bill tends to act believing he has the facts when in reality that may not be the case. Subsequently there is fallout which is left to the admin/mods to clean up. Neither Bill nor Kerry have the first idea how to run and forum and used it as a platform to advertise their work or continue their personal battles. Their behavior drove the admin/mod volunteers around the bend.

When Bill came back from Australia and was all gung ho on the self-reliance location he discovered and was posting that those with $150,000 or more can find a safe spot to ride out the earth changes. Well one can just imagine the fallout from that. Bill is like a kid with a new toy that he wants to share with everyone and doesn't stop to think of the impact of his thread on the many members who do not have the financial means to move and buy into a supposedly safe location. I will admit I enjoy Bill's enthusiam and how he wants to share what he knows with everyone. It is just that he was insensitve to the greater need of the members who don't have a lot of funds and are preparing ground crews in the areas they currently lived in.

When the Bible speaks of how the meed will inheirit the earth.. I suspect it refers to those who are close to the earth and can survive without technology. If indeed, we take heed to Patrick Geryl's superwave theory and Paul LaViolette then it is very likely the planet will be hit with a major electro magnetic pulse (EMP) that will take down the electrical grid. Only those groups like the Amish and mennonites who have communities hidden away in the shadow of the metropolitan areas throughout the US and Missouri who are best prepared to deal with a society without technology. Their concept of government is simple. Some may drive cars, but do not allow radio or television. They run their own schools and do not participate in life insurance or social security. The church takes care of it's own. If only the Catholic Church would do so well. Even the Mormens have a community structure which is very solid but I suspect would suffer without the technology that is avaiable today. Hopefully, Baggywrinkle will share with us how this faith based community model is as an excellent example of what intentional community once was.

Once TV, radio, internet is gone... all these techy forms of entertainment are removed. Then what? As Baggywrinkle so beautifully expresses... "They can only divide us against ourselves if we allow it."

"How might this country be different if more of us spent our evenings like this..."

"They can only divide us against ourselves if we allow it."

One can just imagine how might this country be different if more of us spent our evenings like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt3gkajJToQ

reality=check wrote:
I still maintain this debacle is only really relevant if the Heather material is genuine. Frankly it needs a wheel chair because it can't stand up on it's own. Kinsue is piggy in the middle being spit roasted by the pair of them. He's in for a rough time if he hangs out on the boards.

To my mind there is no good reason to expose the true identity of a person who is providing the information, if they do not wish it to be in the public domain. Exposing the true identity has no benefit whatsoever... It does not help anyone discern the value of the material... As I said before, if one suspect the material has no merit - then don't publish, end of!

Why play God with someone else's life? what good can possibly come of that? I say regardless of one's view as to the validity of any material, there is no real justification for outing someone.

In any case, the Heather material was not the final straw, or blow, or nail...

anonypony is correct. No one's identity, particularly a witness or potential witness, should be outed unless they do it themselves as in the situation with Henry Deacon (aka Art Neumann) did at the conference in Barcelona when Kerry dragged him up on stage during Dean's presentation. It is Bills preference that we all use are real names and not hide behind avatars, as it is his belief that people are more responsible if they have to stand up face-to-face with one another. I personally thought Ben's photo with his daughter very sweet and do appreciate seeing the face of the person I'm communicating with as it makes the experience more real for me.

Carol wrote: When Bill came back from Australia and was all gung ho on the self-reliance location he discovered and was posting that those with $150,000 or more can find a safe spot to ride out the earth changes.

Interesting... Remember what I wrote in my first post?

anonypony wrote: Bill keeps saying he has a duty to scrutinise the information presented to him. And I agree whole heatedly, I just would have expected him to do it BEFORE he enthusiastically endorsing the information and not 2 years later.

It relates!

Carol wrote: Once TV, radio, internet is gone... all these techy forms of entertainment are removed. Then what? As Baggywrinkle so beautifully expresses... "They can only divide us against ourselves if we allow it."

"How might this country be different if more of us spent our evenings like this..."

"They can only divide us against ourselves if we allow it."

One can just imagine how might this country be different if more of us spent our evenings like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt3gkajJToQ

For those of us who were born prior to 8 track tapes, 45 rpms and color TV - I think we had some early training on how to occupy ourselves without the need of the technology of the last 20 years. Viva la babyboomers.

I don't think TPTW had anything to do with it....not in the bigger sense.

I also don't think it's a simply a personal issue.

There are personal differences to be sure....but all have to do with PC itself.

Kerry is just a horrible interviewer and a bad communicator. Bill is the exact opposite.

Kerry loves to throw little tidbits out on her radio show about a (New source)to get everyone curious....then never follows up on it.

As Bill likes to say "Kerry shoots from the hip".....she does....but she has extremely bad aim.

Just to stringing camels along...about info from "channeled" sources.

Bill checks out info...he researches....and when it passes his tests...he will speak about anon WBs....and articulates and communicates it so well.

I think the best example of Bills communication skills and interview skills is as follows...



and this




I'm greatly looking forward to Bills future interviews. Especially with just researcher. Go watch the Joseph P Ferrel interview....THAT...is how PC should be.....when real usable information we can all use is put out there.

Kerry is going down the route of channeled material being considered WBing.

This is gonna be fun.

Their abilities and styles are different, granted. And imo both have a lot to share and bring forth. Personally I don't need to rubbish either, to see that the difficulties stem from the interaction. Those are 2 separate issues. Personally I wish them both the best and would like to see them both succeed in whatever they each wish to pursue, I do. That is why I am involved...

Too much time and energy is spent on trying to hold on to something that no longer works... And not enough time is spent on the actual work... Sometimes distance and a cooling off period can work wonders in introducing some introspection and perspective.

However I would say this: What you see on camera is not always reflected in real life... Anyone who had direct interaction would be well aware of it.

anonypony wrote:

reality=check wrote:
I still maintain this debacle is only really relevant if the Heather material is genuine. Frankly it needs a wheel chair because it can't stand up on it's own. Kinsue is piggy in the middle being spit roasted by the pair of them. He's in for a rough time if he hangs out on the boards.

To my mind there is no good reason to expose the true identity of a person who is providing the information, if they do not wish it to be in the public domain. Exposing the true identity has no benefit whatsoever... It does not help anyone discern the value of the material... As I said before, if one suspect the material has no merit - then don't publish, end of!

Why play God with someone else's life? what good can possibly come of that? I say regardless of one's view as to the validity of any material, there is no real justification for outing someone.

I understand your point fully. Having said that, if you are correct, I also see Bills point. One could look at it as a case of naming and shaming Ben. There is another worthy and very compelling point that everyone is overlooking. I’ll make the point later but put hindsight to one side for a moment and review the information at the time. Kinsue joins the forum and is active for a time. Then submits his story and the Heather material. Kinsue, when being subjected to some authentication, relays a story of Heather being knocked off in a car crash. Bill smells a rat with the PDF, the spelling, the IP addresses and convenient disappearance of the star witness and promptly bans Kinsue.

I think I too would have made a sceptical of the chap (Kinsue) on the forum if I were Bill. Mind you, I think I would have done a better job of things.

Here’s the worthy point to take on board. Had Kerry & Bill perused this interview with Ben. Ben was more than willing to be outed by means of the PDF. I even think he said words to that effect in the Heather / Ben audio release. Now that the fan is covered in the proverbial Ben has a different view.

This Kerry & Bill debacle is a bit 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. I’ll review that audio interview and the “why is Kinsue banned” thread (if ever available) to make sure things are correct.

(PS This forum skin and style works excellent for me)

[quote="reality=check"][quote="anonypony"]

reality=check wrote:[size=12]

This Kerry & Bill debacle is a bit 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. I’ll review that audio interview and the “why is Kinsue banned” thread (if ever available) to make sure things are correct.

(PS This forum skin and style works excellent for me)

Ben is still around....I'm hoping he pops in and speaks for himself.

I enjoy the word from folks that live the scene.....not getting it second hand with folk's colored glasses clouding the issue

It was time for us all to move on anyways....We had all outgrew Avalon.

Looking up at folks that were probably looking down on us....

When in reality we had evolved past our creators.

Peace Y'all

reality=check wrote: One could look at it as a case of naming and shaming Ben. There is another worthy and very compelling point that everyone is overlooking.

Thanks for for looking into it. However we will have to Agree to Disagree on the above. And what I say is not particular to the Heather material, but is my general approach. We don't have agree, it is OK with me if we don't. We are all entitled to have our views.

However saying that I do think this is a worthy topic to discuss in a bit more depth.

Here is where I am coming from:

In cases of this kind there could be many possibilities, things are rarely black or white.
Many things need to be considered, of course the validation process one applies is crucial and without going into this one in great detail, we would probably never resolve this debate one way or another, but even if we did, there is always going to be the probability, that we may be lacking in either relevant context, information, or openness to truly evaluate some concepts, or information.

We also need to remember that in many occasions the people who are coming forward, are far from perfect, in fact in many cases if they have been subjected to various programs, chance are they will display credibility issues. I would say, it is a given.

But lets take an example of a definite hoax, I should think we will find 2 main cats:
1. Deliberate attempt to subvert people's perception
2. Attention seeking coming from some unbalanced individuals

In both cases I would be inclined to not give it any energy! Doing so would play right into their aim - publicity and more people talking about it, etc.

I would either put the information in the public domain, state my reservations, if I had any, and let each person come to their own conclusion. Or not publish it, put it to bed and forget all about it.

I still don't see the point in the naming and shaming approach, as there is always a chance that 1. the validation process was not adequate, or that the person bring it forth is unbalanced and here compassion is probably more appropriate then vindication.

But that is me. Does not mean I am right and you are wrong. I just thought it is worth considering.

I think in the case of the Heather material, it was prematurely dismissed, named and shamed, (There was a lot more that happened, which was not expressed in any forum posts.) to actually really determined if there was value in it or not. But I guess there was too much bad blood so we will never know for sure. And that is a shame in my view. It is interesting to read Barry King stand on this...

Also when you take the approach of prematurely naming and shaming, you deter other less confident WB or experiencers coming forward. They had enough bad stories anyway... So if they see that the prospect of coming forward also means being subjected to more abuse, would they feel it is worth it?

...

Chamber wrote:The only thing I've found from Bill that could remotely relate to this is here.

Bill puts the name of the "Norwegian Politician" in parentheses. Had the name been released with the permission of the politician before Bill did that?

Anonypony

Yep, I get your points and to be fair I do concur with a lot of them. Just to clarify about the naming and shaming. That was my concept of the event. A kind of "could have." I'm not putting words in Bills mouth and I've no proof that was his intention.

As I inferred, had it been me naming and shaming. Had it been my forum someone was tooling around in, I would have done a better job of it. That's why agree with your statement

"as there is always a chance that 1. the validation process was not adequate."

I think that's why Bill, in hindsight, set out his public apology and reinstated Kinsue's account.




There's still the validity of anonymity. Ben did state on the audio (46 min) that he had no problem with his real name being used although he stated he would prefer the Heather account to be separate to his.

Ben sanctioned his identity being brought to the open for purposes of interview. This now questions Kerry’s claim of Bill “outting” Ben. Kerry hasn’t mentioned anyone else. You did mention another WB being outted. I’m not sure if you meant it was involved with this case (Heather/ Ben) or was a totally different interview / case. Could you clarify that?

One things for sure, Kerry & Bills slippery slope of discrediting each other isn't going to do either of them any good.

I feel for all the people that donated money or are going to be asked to donate. I for one won't put in another penny to fund their private war.

reality=check wrote:
There's still the validity of anonymity. Ben did state on the audio (46 min) that he had no problem with his real name being used although he stated he would prefer the Heather account to be separate to his.

Ben sanctioned his identity being brought to the open for purposes of interview. This now questions Kerry’s claim of Bill “outting” Ben. Kerry hasn’t mentioned anyone else. You did mention another WB being outted. I’m not sure if you meant it was involved with this case (Heather/ Ben) or was a totally different interview / case. Could you clarify that?

One things for sure, Kerry & Bills slippery slope of discrediting each other isn't going to do either of them any good.

I feel for all the people that donated money or are going to be asked to donate. I for one won't put in another penny to fund their private war.

Hi,

Just want to add that the interview with Ben was done after Bill outed him in the forums and etc. So there was no reason for him to hide in that regard any more.

Edit: The second WB was "John Burns" (not his real name). You will probably find references to this in various blog posts and forum posts.

Other than that, I agree and support the statements by 'Anonypony' 100%. If anyone has managed to get a proper picture of things going on it is this person.

All the best,

Tommy

seeingterra wrote:

reality=check wrote:
There's still the validity of anonymity. Ben did state on the audio (46 min) that he had no problem with his real name being used although he stated he would prefer the Heather account to be separate to his.

Ben sanctioned his identity being brought to the open for purposes of interview. This now questions Kerry’s claim of Bill “outting” Ben. Kerry hasn’t mentioned anyone else. You did mention another WB being outted. I’m not sure if you meant it was involved with this case (Heather/ Ben) or was a totally different interview / case. Could you clarify that?

One things for sure, Kerry & Bills slippery slope of discrediting each other isn't going to do either of them any good.

I feel for all the people that donated money or are going to be asked to donate. I for one won't put in another penny to fund their private war.

Hi,

Just want to add that the interview with Ben was done after Bill outed him in the forums and etc. So there was no reason for him to hide in that regard any more.

Other than that, I agree and support the statements by 'Anonypony' 100%. If anyone has managed to get a proper picture of things going on it is this person.

All the best,

Tommy

Hi Tommy

Sorry chap not being funny with you but your wrong. Kerry clearly states at the begining of the Heather / Ben audio, as a footnote, that she conducted the interview in November 09. She then states the upload date of the audio as 6th April 10.

Seashore wrote:

Chamber wrote:The only thing I've found from Bill that could remotely relate to this is here.

Bill puts the name of the "Norwegian Politician" in parentheses. Had the name been released with the permission of the politician before Bill did that?

I found this on my travels  : SNIP   "Khaqan Khan the Norwegian Politician from Project Camelot is in the cleaning business ( a true Ashashin “assassin” ) 18 Minutes ago Karma: 0
Strangely enough 3 days after my latest arrest in Norway I receive the following e-mails from Khaqan Khan and CIA controled PSYOPs Bill and Kerry from Project Camelot and notice immediately the following statement of KKK Ultra ” i knew about your wife for a long time ago that she worked with the goverment of norway butt had no means of teling you because i was monitired by the PST .” Well that’s turn out to be completely false information tipical of a PST PSYOP ongoing operation against me my dear friends , as Fatma Suslu was not working for the Goverment at this time (she was so desperate economicly she even got involved in a couple of frauds against the norwegian goverment as you know) and they obviously didnt want her back untill she stayed my wife (this was even confirmed to me by Fatma Suslu on several occassions including our conversations after meeting with Rita Westvik ) , it was made clear to me that I should have become one of them and corrupt myself or my wife will not have had any further possibilities of developing her political and interreligious projects in Norway. But such a false statement regarding Fatma was obviously made by Khaqan Khan back then to completely discredit my wife in my eyes after my arrest (and the signing of the ban that forbids any contact with her untill May 2009). This PSYOP operation operation was created with the support of KKK Ultra so I willl not try to contact her in any way when I was still in Norway and possibly verify what was realy happening to our marriage (what an evil trap by the PST…) ….things seem to finaly become more clear for me now my dear friends regarding the true intentions of the PST , Khaqan Khan , CIA disinfo agents Bill and Kerry from “Project Camelot” and the destruction of my little family in Norway after their famous interview /PSYOP operation. Khaqan Khan was immediately contacted by me after this e-mail on the 8th of March on several of his phone numbers (that are officialy listed on the net by the way dear Halvor ) to confirm his identity wich he did , at present I have used the following number for any contact between me and KKK Ultra +4740484833 but he as also called me in the US once Identifying himself to my Chief of Security Clinton Torrez as a CIA operative (you can ask Clinton yourself one day) "
and the rest at the link below http://leozagami.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/zagami-denounces-khaqan-khan/

reality=check wrote:
Hi Tommy

Sorry chap not being funny with you but your wrong. Kerry clearly states at the begining of the Heather / Ben audio, as a footnote, that she conducted the interview in November 09. She then states the upload date of the audio as 6th April 10.

You know, you are right. I just checked it after I posted (should have done it before), seems I mixed up some dates.

However what I do know for sure was the fact that she was hesitant to publish the interview because of the personal details involved, so it seems she did not have to edit the names and etc. out of the interview after all.

I guess the biggest problem would not be the actual name (do a search for Ben Murphy, quite a lot of them), but things like publishing IP addresses and other personal details is actually grounds for a law-suit in the US.

If you look at some of the problems at PC in legal terms you would be quite surprised to see how much potential damage certain outings and copyright infringements towards organizations and individuals could cost you (in this case Kerry since she got her name on most of it). There are so many factors involved, and Bill keeps giving out manipulated truths and avoiding the real issues so the public get even more confused about the whole thing.

All the best,

Tommy

As I said earlier this is 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. What I have a problem with is why Kerry even released the audio. The Heather PDF is discredited so that just leave Bens contactee affair. It doesn't fit the Camelot whistleblower criteria. I can only presume she's harboring a grudge. Would have been better for Camelot & Avalon had this business been left alone.

As for Kerry then blogging that Bill outted Ben. It doesn't really make sense. Bens name is in the PDF and Ben sanctioned his real details being used on the audio. Had Bill not mentioned anything there would have been an interview with Ben, with his name on it. Kerry IMO is arguing over nothing.

Tommy, how is John Burns not his real name? Everyone in Oz knows him as that (and outback Jack) and it even says so on his business cards.

eleni wrote:Tommy, how is John Burns not his real name? Everyone in Oz knows him as that (and outback Jack) and it even says so on his business cards.

Eleni

What is the deal with this John Jack Burns Simpson guy? I know Bill is convinced he's some kind of government agent but what proof is there? Whats so relevant about this guy other than him hanging around Kerry?

He is intel(SAS, probably MI6) and he does have unusual abilities.I have met him and I can verify certain things. Supposedly he hangs out with the Annunaki who frequent Pine Gap area........there's a bit of weirdness when one comes into contact with John. Namely the AI. It is real as well.

enemyofNWO wrote:I found this on my travels... http://leozagami.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/zagami-denounces-khaqan-khan/

I guess this is a blog about Leo Zagami by a blogger named Troy Space. I guess this piece is written by Leo Zagami and it was published June 19, 2008. The title of the piece is "Zagami Denounces Khaqan Khan" but I couldn't find where "Re:Khaqan Khan the Norwegian Politician from Project Camelot is in the cleaning business ( a true Ashashin 'assassin' ) 18 Minutes ago Karma: 0" originates from.

Anyway, I guess this shows the name was public record before Bill said it?

Also, I see Zagami evidently referred to Bill & Kerry as a "CIA controlled PSYOPS." Did we already know he said that? (Maybe it's not important.)

reality=check wrote:

eleni wrote:Tommy, how is John Burns not his real name? Everyone in Oz knows him as that (and outback Jack) and it even says so on his business cards.

Eleni

What is the deal with this John Jack Burns Simpson guy? I know Bill is convinced he's some kind of government agent but what proof is there? Whats so relevant about this guy other than him hanging around Kerry?

His name is disputed, if it is John\Jack\Jake I have no idea, never asked either. The only thing I know is that people use synonyms when referring to his name.

John Burns is not much involved, he helps Kerry with interviews (camera, logistics) and he is helping her to set up conferences in Australia among other places. Why Bill is so paranoid about this particular person is a question I guess no-one really can answer. Sure, he might be MI6 or god knows what, but at the end of the day this is no worse than many of the other witnesses\WB they are in frequent contact with.

The reason why I got pissed off with Bill in private (and somewhat public on PA2) was because he kept using the "Camelot take-over!....." and "John Burns is an infiltrator\agent that has ruined us...." He has done this for a long while, I asked him to present proof (that he claims he has, and he also claims that it is solid proof), if he replies he dodges the subject and start calling people "naive" instead of simply saving the day presenting this ground shocking proof he claims he has. Then he lied openly on the PA2 Heather thread, that made my fuses go off...

Bill is paranoid about John because of conversations he had with him where John stated he was sent to Camelot and it's better to have someone like him in Camelot than a nasty- and he's trying to regain his fall from grace in the black ops community. Bill is also very aware of the AI- having had interactions with it himself. LOL, that alone is enough to send one running. Freakiest thing I ever encountered.

That said, I do see Kerry as someone who is open minded and wants to get deep info and put it out there even if the info is not true etc;

eleni wrote:Bill is paranoid about John because of conversations he had with him where John stated he was sent to Camelot and it's better to have someone like him in Camelot than a nasty- and he's trying to regain his fall from grace in the black ops community. Bill is also very aware of the AI- having had interactions with it himself. LOL, that alone is enough to send one running. Freakiest thing I ever encountered.

That said, I do see Kerry as someone who is open minded and wants to get deep info and put it out there even if the info is not true etc;

Eleni....Me Being on more than Naive side...

So "John" gives off an unnatural vibe ...Can you explain some??

Thanks