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enemyofNWO
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    Post  mp3 Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:48 pm

    enemyofNWO wrote:
    I am of a different opinion on this . "Sure some hot heads will start minor shooting wars and be blown out of the game " . The general conditions of the population today are probably approaching similarity to the 1770 .Where those patriots in 1770 hot heads ?   At that time there was a government without popular representation , isn't the same as what you have now  ? As an observer from outside  I think you have a government of the rich for the benefit of multinationals not certainly the majority of the population .  Representatives of the populations sold out to the lobby groups a long time ago . I read the Cliff High reports and Gerald Celente projections , and I tend to think that they make sense . When the SHTF there will be people who will not have anything to lose by going after some king pins of the NWO .  When the super market shelves will be empty , many people will come to realize that they are within one week of starvation and all the bets will be off . Read the signs about what's happening in the US . Unemployment unofficially is about 20% . The official figures are rigged and the government does not counts the people who are not getting anymore the subsidy . There are tent cities in many parts of the US . In the original US revolution only 5% of the population took part . Now the USA has about 300 million people . A conservative 5% would amount to 15 million people that potentially are in a position to give trouble to the would be masters of the world . 15 million patriots are much more than any organized army . That's why , that there are reports of foreign troops stationed in the US that would fire on the local population while some local police or military would not . We must remember that the PTB is trying to take the weapons out of the hands of returned soldiers . It seems that there is a move to purge the police and the armed services of members who are not prepared to swear allegiance to a person born in Kenya. Recent history tell us that an army cannot win against guerrilla warfare . The US army can win against Granada or Panama but it's was a different story  in Algeria ,Vietnam , Iraq , Afghanistan .  Funny thing about the Algerian war of liberation against the French occupation .The guerrilla organized themselves in small group of independent cells . So if a member of the cell was caught he would only know about other 3 or 4 people and no more . All of this is explained in the film classic : "The battle of Algiers " . If or when the SHTF who will win the game will be the small independent groups that will not use telephones , radio or Internet which by that time will be useless .The lone wolf and the guerrilla group will be king .  This is my view for what is worth it . There will also be people who will just not cooperate with the authorities and will sabotage every aspect of society . It is not a pretty picture . A lot will depends on the mistakes the government will make in the next few weeks and months . Starting another war might be the proverbial straw that broke the camel back .. I hope I am wrong . 


    Yes. I understand the perspective. And although some of these actions may take place this way, they are not descriptive of the energetics which would be involved in such a case. Fear (includes anger, hate, etc) based consciousness will always be subordinate to the PTB because it is created by them for the specific purpose of maintaining the most reliable control mechanism they've yet come up with. as long as people remain afraid, and adopting an opposing stance towards them, they have control. It becomes a contest of control, and they have all the juice, where control is concerned. To fight them, is to lose. No, this is not a defeatist viewpoint. This is truth on a higher level of existence. They want people to fight them so they can implement the next group of controls in the name of protecting the "people" from the "terrorists", (patriots).

    The way ahead, involves taking a step back from the brink, and telling them we won't cooperate with them, or use their hyper-controlled structures any longer. This isn't the place and time to explain how it could actually succeed, but it would and it will, as people see through the deceptions they hold in place.
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    Post  Mercuriel Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:49 pm

    Simply an Observation...

    People will either decide to support corrupt Paradigms even when They're fully displayed or They will choose a different Path but It will be a Conscious One this Incarnation. No more Obfuscations or Sophistries. Many of Us have had to face the "long Dark Night of the Soul" already and while We may not be fully through it by any stretch of the Word - As We began dealing with Our Limitations and Separations ealier than some - We seem to move through these Events easier.

    As We approach the Shift - Each Being will make a Conscious Choice and /or Choices to either ;

    > Remain in Separation.

    - Or -

    > To move into Unity.

    That said - It will be each Being's Free-will Choice to be the Change They seek or to continue to give Their Power over to others by NOT making a Choice. You see My Friends - Making NO Choice is a Choice nonetheless.

    We must All be prepared to get what We Focus on...

    Heh heh


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    Post  Seashore Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:52 pm

    mp3 wrote:See my thread on Economics in the sustainable communities sub forum for an article detailing my ideas, loosely put.

    Here's a link: http://themistsofavalon.net/worldwide-sustainable-communities-f16/new-economics-or-no-economics-t218.htm

    "Economics have replaced the whip in the enforcement of slavery."

    True!
    Carol
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    Post  Carol Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:02 pm

    Okay, there are two issues here.

    One: "the future is gone, except for what we actively create and hold in place. The future is gone, as a set script. There is no longer anything agreed upon and adopted as a given, which can be read as anything other than a potentiality. A possibility. A probability. We have chosen to abandon several of the harsher timelines we had once held as prime likelihoods."

    This is indeed true because the future is altered by the intention of people who are conscious and understand how to do this.

    Next, with regard to space wars. This is happening now and has been with the US primarily the aggressor with the black ops space program that they do have. The scenario can play itself out in multiple ways.

    1) The space war is entirely fabricated by our own secret government as a means to take total control over the world populace to promote the one world government scenario.

    2) The space war is fabricated by rogue aliens along with our military in alignment with their intention to take control over human kind.

    3) The space war is between the annunaki and those (other aliens and humans) who wish to take control of humankind. http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=annunaki&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

    Ignore the commercial at the front end. Be Prepared For 2012 - The Annunaki Taught The Summerians
    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1299212/be_prepared_for_2012_the_annunaki_taught_the_summerians/


    4) The space war is between different alien groups. One group who wants control over human kind and the other group who is out to police the rogue aliens.


    Last edited by Carol on Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Mercuriel Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:36 pm

    <embed src="http://www.metacafe.com/fplayer/1299212/be_prepared_for_2012_the_annunaki_taught_the_summerians.swf" width="400" height="345" wmode="transparent" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" allowscriptAccess="always" name="Metacafe_1299212"> </embed><br><font size = 1><a href="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1299212/be_prepared_for_2012_the_annunaki_taught_the_summerians/">Be Prepared For 2012 - The Annunaki Taught The Summerians</a> - <a href="http://www.metacafe.com/">The funniest videos clips are here</a></font>

    Heh heh


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    Post  Seashore Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:55 pm

    Here is Ellen herself giving an excellent summary of her book:



    Last edited by Seashore on Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:30 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Trying to embed YouTube video)
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    Post  Seashore Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:09 pm

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    Post  monique Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:47 pm

    "Understanding Deep Politics" Conference - Page 2 Icon_flower "Understanding Deep Politics" Conference - Page 2 Icon_cheers this is an interesting thread. seashore, thanks for posting it. and thank you carol, mp3, mercuriel and enemynwo for participate whit yours opinions about the matter. "Understanding Deep Politics" Conference - Page 2 Icon_cheers "Understanding Deep Politics" Conference - Page 2 Icon_flower
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    Post  Seashore Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:52 pm

    monique wrote:"Understanding Deep Politics" Conference - Page 2 Icon_flower "Understanding Deep Politics" Conference - Page 2 Icon_cheers this is an interesting thread. seashore, thanks for posting it. and thank you carol, mp3, mercuriel and enemynwo for participate whit yours opinions about the matter. "Understanding Deep Politics" Conference - Page 2 Icon_cheers "Understanding Deep Politics" Conference - Page 2 Icon_flower
    monique.

    You've brought a big smile to my face, Monique. Thank you!!
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    Post  Seashore Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:14 am

    The other speakers at the conference will be:

    • Ian Crane
    • David Ray Griffin
    • Annie Machon
    • Jim Marrs
    • Cynthia McKinney
    • Michael Parenti
    • Peter Phillips
    • Peter Dale Scott
    • Barrie Zwicker

    It will be in Santa Cruz, California.

    If by chance anyone is planning to go to the conference, please post!
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    Post  mp3 Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:30 am

    Carol wrote:Okay, there are two issues here.

    One: "the future is gone, except for what we actively create and hold in place. The future is gone, as a set script. There is no longer anything agreed upon and adopted as a given, which can be read as anything other than a potentiality. A possibility. A probability. We have chosen to abandon several of the harsher timelines we had once held as prime likelihoods."

    This is indeed true because the future is altered by the intention of people who are conscious and understand how to do this.

    Next, with regard to space wars. This is happen now and has been with the US primarily the aggressor with the black ops space program that they do have. The scenario can play itself out in multiple ways.

    1) The space war is entirely fabricated by our own secret government as a means to take total control over the world populace to promote the one world government scenario.

    2) The space war is fabricated by rogue aliens along with our military in alignment with their intention to take control over human kind.

    3) The space war is between the annunaki and those (other aliens and humans) who wish to take control of humankind. http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=annunaki&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

    Ignore the commercial at the front end. Be Prepared For 2012 - The Annunaki Taught The Summerians
    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1299212/be_prepared_for_2012_the_annunaki_taught_the_summerians/


    4) The space war is between different alien groups. One group who wants control over human kind and the other group who is out to police the rogue aliens.


    I've gone ahead and run your questions by my Pleiadian friends, and came back with some VERY interesting answers. WOW. But we should probably start a new thread somewhere, or move this to another existing and more appropriate thread. But as I'll be including some info specifically channeled in answer to your proposed scenarios, I don't want it buried where it won't be easy to find.
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    Post  mp3 Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:05 am

    Ok, Carol. Here's the post with the Channeled answers I've obtained from the Pleiadians, and my own understandings and comments.


    I read your post to the 9th Dimensional Pleiadian Collective through my wife (channel/medium).

    We discussed some of the points and I asked some clarifying questions, which I didn't write down, but which are also answered below.

    They interjected in the middle, a bit of a caveat regarding the limitations of channeling specific information of this type. This is what they said: "However, do keep in mind that whatever information comes through will come through as a result of the frequency which the channel is capable of matching. Whatever information comes through will come through as a result of the channel being able to match frequency with the information". I put it here at the beginning, so anyone reading this knows the information is filtered, as is all channeled information".

    What your friend refers to is the infighting between the factions behind the scenes. Which your friends who are awake, are aware of the existence of. However the energies that are coming through along the lines of a "war" if you will, are coming through more strongly because the various sides of this struggle are becoming more desperate. (this paragraph was paraphrased by my wife. Not directly channeled)

    (This paragraph was channeled but the continuity was broken a few times by my typing speed limitation and having to stop them to repeat, etc. I'll leave it as is. They can clarify anything which is unclear.)
    "There are various sources involved. in other words, as you know this planet was seeded by the life forms of many different planets. many different places.( I asked Species?) Species would be correct. So for example there are Annunaki. various types of greys. all vying for control of various governments, and for control of power. So these influences are indeed involved. In a nutshell, many of you are much more aware of the energies that come from their infighting, because they have stepped it up significantly. Conversely, all of you lightworkers who have become awakened or are in the awakening process have also stepped up your work significantly, so the balance is now tipping in your favour. It is true you are creating your future with each present moment. You see an example in this latest situation with the goldman sachs people, that things do not bode well for their side. Their game is collapsing. They are actually helping their collapse along".

    they said many people have an impression that a war is about to break out or going on between aliens in space ships and people here on the planet. "while it is true that there are species on this planet who are warring with others, they have been here for a long time. You know them as the people behind the scenes as the powers that be..those powers that be are made up of various species including some hybrids".

    "They are primarily other species which have over a long period of time integrated with humans. they are many of them hybrid beings. some are shape shifters, however, they rarely show a form other than the human one they are wearing. They use a human vehicle. How many times have you looked at a photo of a well known politician, or well known character, and said: "he doesn't even look human". "

    "There are those on this planet that are in PTB positions who have seen some of these species in their native state, and once recognized, this has only increased the desire of the PTB in their human form to go to war with these other species. They feel that what is theirs is theirs, if you will. and they must fight to protect what is inherently theirs. It would be, on a much larger scale, an example of two neighbours fighting over where their property line is when one of them wishes to erect a fence".

    "To place your attention and energy into what the warring factions are doing, to one another, is to miss all of the glory which you the lightworkers are actually creating. Remember, this has been said by others already. The balance is tipping. That tipping of the balances is what is leading up to what the 2012 point is . That is precisely what the shift is about. It's a shift. it's a movement. it's a going in another direction. When you shift something you move it from one place to another, balance wise. This is what you are in the midst of. If you take a big step back, and take a look in at the big picture, you will see that all of the personal struggle that you have at this time, is the result of those factions that are warring with one another. If you stand next to a brick building which is about to be demolished with dynamite, you will be hit with bricks and feel the effects of it's crumbling. So it is with the effects of the shift of balance from the frequency at which the PTB vibrate, into a frequency at which those who are awakening vibrate. as you raise your frequency, you will feel the effects of those bricks tumbling, but they will eventually fall away and you will rise up out of it. This is the crux of the shift. of your ascension".

    (my comments from here on)

    They then asked if we understood what they were trying to get across, and we chit chatted a bit more. The upshot of it all, is that many of us are working at raising the overall frequency of the consciousness level of the collective consciousness field here in our locale. But that's just our perspective on the focus, as consciousness is really not local at all. But we're primarily concerned with what is going on in, on and around Earth, and so are many others from abroad. What they perceive, energetically, is that many of us are working to raise frequency, and others are working to keep it in the fear band. Those working to keep fear in place, are the ones fighting. They are fighting to gain complete control. We on the other hand, regard them mostly as a nuisance by now, and are more or less getting on with the show of creating the new world. However, a large proportion of what we would think of as lightworkers, keep getting our attention drawn into the warring and fighting, and attempts at placing controls, etc. In other words, we are choosing to wander too close to the buildings being demolished by all the power struggles. And we are getting hit by the bricks, or having to dodge them.

    They are doing themselves and each other in, and they are stuck in the consciousness level of fear by now. It really does have to suck pretty bad to be them.

    What I'm always harping on about, is that we don't give them our attention and energy, as it pollutes our consciousness with their fear thought forms, and it invites their control points to be placed in our fields. Which I'm sure we can fight off, or cleanse off, but it's a major distraction at a critical time, when our creative output is needed to continue raising the collective consciousness frequency band into a stably higher range characterized by love. We can do thousands of times more good from Love, than we can from fear. And the irony of it all, is that if we permit ourselves to be drawn down into fear, it does us no good, it does the collective no good, and it does the fear generating PTB no good either. We have to find the stamina to stay out of their fear attractors. They put out nothing but fear and invitations and requirements to fear. It's what they do. They can't help it. But we can. We can experience and share love. Unconditional, non judgemental love. At least that's the direction we are headed in. Right now, some of us can do that. I for one can. I can love Bush, Cheney, Queen, Rockefeller, Kissinger, Brown, Sarkozy, etc. I don't fear these people. I know if I had to spend on minute in their consciousness, I'd be in a healing tank for some time to repair the damage to my fields. It so sucks to be them. They won't work their way out. They are stuck in their situations. It's only by the rest of us free to consciously set our frequency and place our attention where we want it, to do so with the intent of increasing the collective consciousness out of the range of influence of those lower vibratory frequencies, because when we do that, (and we are doing it and we are successful, and the scales are tipping towards the positive side) we help not only ourselves, but we raise the frequency of the whole game, including the part of the playing field the PTB's play on as well.

    In other words. If we can keep from getting embroiled and involved in their fear stuff, we can work to raise the whole consciousness field we share here, including for the negative side as well. The more we just get on with our show, the more everybody wins. Our game is win/win. Their game is lose/lose. The rest, meaning the slightly negatively oriented, and the slightly positively oriented, play win/lose games. Win/Win games are games of love. Lose/lose games are games of fear. Win/lose games are games where a scale slides around somewhere between love and fear. the are headed in one direction or another. never static. And they tend to roller coaster on a repeating pattern. sometimes towards fear, and sometimes towards love. (See "finite and infinite games" by James P Carse for more on this)

    It doesn't matter what these pathetic fools are doing. Most of what we consider ET races/species have been here a long time, and intermingled and interbred here until there is no such thing on earth as native human. we are made up of many, many species, including samples of their physical and non-physical DNA mixed in. Humans are the ultimate hybrids already. And we have all of those genetic and racial and spiritual memories mixed in and influencing us, and revivifying in our astral fields, and it can all get very complicated seeming. But it's really pretty straightforward. It's just us, here, working some stuff out. Some know that....some don't. Those that don't know that, especially if they are negatively oriented, currently, make a lot of noise and trouble. The rest get caught up in it, and some get hit with the bricks. And some pick up bricks and throw them back and get drawn in even more. The real work to be done, is individual, because the better shape we are in personally, the higher the frequency we can hold, and the phrase "no drop of water believes it is responsible for the flood" can be seen to have some applicability.



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    Post  Carol Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:15 am

    Well Fritz, I've noticed some significant changes in my own behavior of late. It used to be I would listen to Coast-to-Coast every nighte, the Veritas show every week, pull up Drudge every morning and make the rounds of the internet news... then go off and visit all of the different forums to see what everyone else was seeing or noticing.

    Then we started having high winds here, major earthquakes elsewhere along with mega volcanic eruptions... hence, my focus became much more one-pointed in getting the garden created and planting food. I rarely look at the Drudge report as it holds very little interest for me and is just yet another example of how much the world is out of balance. I don't listen to Coast because I just don't have the tire and the same for Veritas (not to say I don't want to listen ~ just to say my attention is on other more immediate things revolving around family. Reading what AJ posted and Paul... others are focused on preparation. I could care less what the politicians or the whole fiscal bruhaha is about anymore because they have entered into being irrelevant to me. Gas is up to over $3.60 per gallon, a gallon of milk over $5.00 as for a loaf of bread. The cost of food is skyrocketing. (hence the drive to grow our own produce).

    The focus is on family and providing safe spaces (including here) where folks can gather and share information and resources.

    Over the years I've noticed I tend to be ahead of the general trends in society. If someone were to put a salad in a container where the food is growing fresh... it would sell like hotcakes. People are getting sick of processed, GMO food and wanting to know more about what they are putting in their mouths. They are coming to distrust Big Business including the big business food industry.

    So here we are... all of this stuff going on around us and we get to choose where we are putting our attention. I've given up on Drudge and the other news media sources. I can scan the news in multiple places in just a few minutes instead of the hours I would give it in the past. I feel politics have failed us and our economy is a joke. So given this morass it just seems the best one can do is put attention and energy on what can do and on what one wants. I can do a garden and I want fresh food. That's easy.

    I can spend time with my family and it's what I want to do. I can ignore media mind-programing and think for myself. I can monitor world-wide earth changes and keep vigilant. I can connect with lightworkers here on a "free" forum and help build a community.. as I can in our neighborhood here. I can keep disseminating information in the sufi scatter method and hope it gets out to those who need it. I can work on my book and share it with others here in the forum while writing it. In fact, in one sense, I can come back to center and look how can I have the biggest impact with the least amount of effort. I can dream of a future in the present by creating what I want now in my own small sphere.

    I can be aware of these other alien influences and stay centered. Even in the midst of a cyclone their is an eye of calm. I can spend time learning about these fractions as they are far more interesting then the illusion. I can be open to new ideas and new ways of perceiving the future. The important element is to own one's own personal power and do the ordinary everyday small things that we do ~ in an extraordinary way. Everyday I try to do acts of kindness to strangers. Even a smile and a hello is letting someone else know we SEE them. Seeing someone is what wakes them up.


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    It is the flash of a firefly in the night, the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

    With deepest respect ~ Aloha & Mahalo, Carol
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    Post  Seashore Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:20 pm

    On page 57 of Web of Debt, Ellen writes: "Usury was forbidden in the Christian Bible, and anti-usury laws were strictly enforced by the Catholic Church until the end of the Middle Ages. But in Jewish scriptures, which were later joined to the Christian books as the 'Old Testament,' usury was forbidden only between 'brothers.'"

    Huh?

    Is there a "Christian Bible" that pre-dates the Old Testament?
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    Post  Seashore Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:02 am

    Another quote from the book that I think is significant is from pages 99 - 100 under the heading "The Gold Humbug." I don't think we can get control of our financial status and thus our destiny until we understand these concepts:

    "In 1863, Eleazar Lord, a New York banker, called the gold standard itself a humbug. He wrote...

    "The requirement that paper banknotes be backed by a certain weight of gold bullion, Lord said, was a fiction. Banks did not have nearly enough gold to 'redeem' all the paper money that was supposed to be based on it...

    "The real issue...was not what money consisted of but who created it. Whether the medium of exchange was gold or paper or numbers in a ledger, when it was lent into existence by private lenders and was owed back to them with interest, more money would always be owed back than was created in the first place..."
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    Post  mp3 Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:12 am

    It's true, and of course a very clever way of maintaining "indebtedness". I was just yesterday reviewing a youtube video called Slavery by consent, which covered the same exact point, and raised the question, "If the money in existence and use, was created and then loaned to governments at interest, and if the interest portion of the created debt was never also written into existence, where is the money supposed to come from to repay the loan AND the interest?"

    It's simple math, really. You create a billion dollars out of nothing, and offer to loan it to the government plus interest, then where does that interest come from? It can only come from existing wealth, so the scam is wealth confiscation, pure and simple.
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    Post  enemyofNWO Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:28 am

    Seashore wrote:Another quote from the book that I think is significant is from pages 99 - 100 under the heading "The Gold Humbug." I don't think we can get control of our financial status and thus our destiny until we understand these concepts:

    "In 1863, Eleazar Lord, a New York banker, called the gold standard itself a humbug. He wrote...

    "The requirement that paper banknotes be backed by a certain weight of gold bullion, Lord said, was a fiction. Banks did not have nearly enough gold to 'redeem' all the paper money that was supposed to be based on it...

    "The real issue...was not what money consisted of but who created it. Whether the medium of exchange was gold or paper or numbers in a ledger, when it was lent into existence by private lenders and was owed back to them with interest, more money would always be owed back than was created in the first place..."
    Yes  the problem is not the gold , it is the usury . Imagine you borrow 1 kilo of gold and you have to pay back the 1 kilo plus interest . Unless you have a gold mine you can't do it . The same story with the Fiat money . The problem also is that the banks can invent the money by lending it and we common people are not allowed  . The other   problem with the "national debt " .  Some of it is the money owed to the so called " Reserve banks " as interest for printing the money from toilet paper . Not even the mafia could have invented a fraud of this type . The solution is obvious : Declare the debt owed to the Reserve banks null and void , put in jail the leaders and throw away the key .  The money should be replaced by another system based on hours of work and this would be the end of globalization but that's another story .
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    Post  Seashore Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:35 am

    mp3 wrote:It's true, and of course a very clever way of maintaining "indebtedness". I was just yesterday reviewing a youtube video called Slavery by consent, which covered the same exact point, and raised the question, "If the money in existence and use, was created and then loaned to governments at interest, and if the interest portion of the created debt was never also written into existence, where is the money supposed to come from to repay the loan AND the interest?"

    It's simple math, really. You create a billion dollars out of nothing, and offer to loan it to the government plus interest, then where does that interest come from? It can only come from existing wealth, so the scam is wealth confiscation, pure and simple.

    This reality is dawning on me for the first time in my 65 years. I wonder what percentage of the populace understands it. And if people did understand it, I wonder whether we're capable of overcoming it.

    I really like this Ellen Hodgson Brown, J.D. She seems to know her stuff. I'm looking forward to getting to the sections of her book "The Magic Slippers: Taking Back the Money Power," "Vanquishing the Debt Spider: a Banking System That Serves the People," and the Afterword, "The Collapse of a 300 Year Ponzi Scheme."
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    Post  Seashore Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:42 am

    enemyofNWO wrote:The solution is obvious : Declare the debt owed to the Reserve banks null and void , put in jail the leaders and throw away the key .

    Something about that that confuses me is this. The national debt is in the form of U.S. Treasuries that ordinary people buy as an investment and people have them in their retirement fund (I'm one of them).

    How would this work? What would happen to the holders of these Treasuries?
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    Post  Mercuriel Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:03 am

    Seashore wrote:On page 57 of Web of Debt, Ellen writes: "Usury was forbidden in the Christian Bible, and anti-usury laws were strictly enforced by the Catholic Church until the end of the Middle Ages. But in Jewish scriptures, which were later joined to the Christian books as the 'Old Testament,' usury was forbidden only between 'brothers.'"

    Huh?

    Is there a "Christian Bible" that pre-dates the Old Testament?

    Before the Old Testament - The Books in use were the Zohar, the Midrash and the Kabbalah among others but these are the Books relevant to Your question...

    Elements of these Works found Their way into the Old Testament as well as the New.

    Heh heh


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    Post  mp3 Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:14 am

    Seashore wrote:
    enemyofNWO wrote:The solution is obvious : Declare the debt owed to the Reserve banks null and void , put in jail the leaders and throw away the key .

    Something about that that confuses me is this. The national debt is in the form of U.S. Treasuries that ordinary people buy as an investment and people have them in their retirement fund (I'm one of them).

    How would this work? What would happen to the holders of these Treasuries?

    These people would be SOL, but they are anyway, the fictitious money doesn't represent real wealth. It was always based on an ever expanding model. Constant growth. As soon as an economy shrinks for more than a blip in time, the game comes apart. They always depend on more people coming in, and more activity being generated that they can steal from to hide their past thefts. All those financial instruments which were endlessly traded had the purpose of funneling most of the dollars into the fewest number of hands. But they never represented anything real, and so were never refundable, which is what collecting on retirement or social security essentially is. A refund. There is nothing there to be refunded, and never was. It's been ledger entries and digits in computers for a log time, and collapse of the system is inevitable. There just isn't wealth to match debt obligations. There is nothing real there. A crime of great magnitude.
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    Post  Seashore Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:17 am

    Mercuriel wrote:
    Seashore wrote:On page 57 of Web of Debt, Ellen writes: "Usury was forbidden in the Christian Bible, and anti-usury laws were strictly enforced by the Catholic Church until the end of the Middle Ages. But in Jewish scriptures, which were later joined to the Christian books as the 'Old Testament,' usury was forbidden only between 'brothers.'"

    Huh?

    Is there a "Christian Bible" that pre-dates the Old Testament?

    Before the Old Testament - The Books in use were the Zohar, the Midrash and the Kabbalah among others but these are the Books relevant to Your question...

    Elements of these Works found Their way into the Old Testament as well as the New.

    Heh heh

    Thanks!!

    But what about calling them the "Christian Bible"? None of those would be considered, "Christian," right?

    And was usury forbidden in any of them?
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    Post  Seashore Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:28 am

    mp3 wrote:
    Seashore wrote:
    enemyofNWO wrote:The solution is obvious : Declare the debt owed to the Reserve banks null and void , put in jail the leaders and throw away the key .

    Something about that that confuses me is this. The national debt is in the form of U.S. Treasuries that ordinary people buy as an investment and people have them in their retirement fund (I'm one of them).

    How would this work? What would happen to the holders of these Treasuries?

    These people would be SOL, but they are anyway, the fictitious money doesn't represent real wealth. It was always based on an ever expanding model. Constant growth. As soon as an economy shrinks for more than a blip in time, the game comes apart. They always depend on more people coming in, and more activity being generated that they can steal from to hide their past thefts. All those financial instruments which were endlessly traded had the purpose of funneling most of the dollars into the fewest number of hands. But they never represented anything real, and so were never refundable, which is what collecting on retirement or social security essentially is. A refund. There is nothing there to be refunded, and never was. It's been ledger entries and digits in computers for a log time, and collapse of the system is inevitable. There just isn't wealth to match debt obligations. There is nothing real there. A crime of great magnitude.
    We can't simply tell people they're "SOL." This is where Ellen's proposals for solutions will come in.

    I'll be posting about her proposals after I get to that part in her book.

    Meanwhile, I really hope others will read her book, or any related book, and post about this. And I hope somebody goes to the conference and perhaps meets her. If anyone hears about an interview of her coming up on the radio, please post about it. I know she has been interviewed on Red Ice Creations before:

    http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2009/09sep/RIR-090922.php
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    Post  Mercuriel Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:32 am

    Seashore wrote:Thanks!!

    But what about calling them the "Christian Bible" ? None of those would be considered, "Christian," right ?

    And was usury forbidden in any of them ?

    While They could be considered Formative - You are right in that They are not considered to be "Christian" Teachings/Writings per se.

    Usury was forbidden IIRC in most if not all Three of the aformentioned Works...

    Simply put - Money represents Energy - Yours and Mine and when We place that in the wrong hands We give over Our Power to others. Its almost directly proportional too and many don't realize this until Its explained to Them. They see it cursorily - But at a very shallow Vibrational Level until It is displayed to Them fully. Then theres usually change in those Others after They've come to realize this.

    Wink


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    Post  Seashore Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:57 am

    Mercuriel wrote:
    Seashore wrote:Thanks!!

    But what about calling them the "Christian Bible" ? None of those would be considered, "Christian," right ?

    And was usury forbidden in any of them ?

    While They could be considered Formative - You are right in that They are not considered to be "Christian" Teachings/Writings per se.

    Usury was forbidden IIRC in most if not all Three of the aformentioned Works...

    Simply put - Money represents Energy - Yours and Mine and when We place that in the wrong hands We give over Our Power to others. Its almost directly proportional too and many don't realize this until Its explained to Them. They see it cursorily - But at a very shallow Vibrational Level until It is displayed to Them fully. Then theres usually change in those Others after They've come to realize this.

    Wink

    But Ellen says that in Jewish scriptures that usury was forbidden only between "brothers." She quotes Deuteronomy (New World Translation):

    "15:6 [Y]ou will certainly lend on pledge to many nations, whereas you yourself will not borrow; and you must dominate over many nations, whereas over you they will not dominate.

    "23:19 You must not make your brother pay interest . . . 23:20 You may make a foreigner pay interest, but your brother you must not make pay interest."

    Are the Zohar, the Midrash, and the Kabbalah Jewish scriptures, and are you saying that they or any of them forbade usury?

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